The Dr. John Delony Show - How Do I Support My Friend That Made a Terrible Decision?

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman wondering how to best support her friend who made a big mistake - Answers to your questions on depression and anxiety - A man unsure if he should help his parents financially Lyrics of the Day: "Secrets" - OneRepublic Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do I support a friend who cheated on her husband without enabling her decision? It's not by your hand, but in your lap. You had a really close friend who did a thing, and then it's dragged you along through the deception and the dishonesty. And if I'm you, I'm not going along on that route. What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show.

The greatest show that has ever existed on the internets and on the podcast when it comes to mental health and marriage and relationships and whatever else is going on in your life. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. And we'd love to have you on the show. And if you don't have access to a phone, go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And if you don't have access to a phone, you should probably get one because it's the 21st century. Okay. So Kelly's out today and Jenna, you're running the show. Yes. How's it feel? I feel a lot of power. Do you? I do. Can we just say, just starting to

show out, you've been so much kinder in my headphones than Kelly generally is. So that's fantastic, I think. Wow. Thank you for that. that we'll see if that changes I'm fairly certain that it will let's go to Samantha out in Philadelphia Samantha what are you doing I'm just waiting to talk to you John awesome so being a caller is it weird listening to all the shenanigans behind the scenes or is it just exactly what you thought it was going to be? It's what I thought it was going to be, but it's still a little weird. Very cool. Okay, so what's up?

What's going on? So I'll go straight to my question. My question is, how do I support a friend who cheated on her husband without enabling her decision? Tell me more. Okay, so it's a really close friend. We grew up together, super close, and she cheated on her husband. And I guess a little more than I found out

since I put the call question in is that she hasn't told the husband the extent to her cheating. So there's that. I know you always say secrets destroy things, but it's not my secret to tell. So I'm struggling with A, how to support her, and B, like, we hang out with them all the time,

so it's weird. Yes, secrets destroy, and so does sleeping with your husband's friend, right? So both of those things, both of those things hurt marriage. Oh, man. Okay, so how did she tell you? How did this come to you?

So she made like a cryptic Facebook post a little while back in December at the end of the year. And I like touched base there to see like how things were going. It kind of just like came out as word vomit. And so it was like this hour-long phone call. And then after we get through it all, like her husband found the text messages, thought it was just emotional. And then as we're ending the phone call, she goes, oh, I actually slept with him too. And I was like, oh. So it was just like, I didn't know what to say.

So what has happened since then? How did you find out that she hasn't told her husband yet? Yeah. So she, at the end of that phone call, when she told me, um, she basically said like, I haven't told him, I don't think I'm going to, unless it like comes up in marriage counseling, which he doesn't want to go to. He's just kind of rug sweeping the situation, like wants to move past it. So it's like, obviously never going to come up if he never goes to therapy and she never says anything. So when you say enabling, what do you mean by that? Um, so I want to support her,

obviously like she's my best friend, but also like that she says these like weird things to kind of justify her cheating. And obviously I'm a big time listener. So like no one else makes you make the choices you decide, like you decide that. And I don't know how to like get that through her head that no matter what her husband did to her, like it's not his fault. So I've had moments in my life when I have close friends and they do something. They violate my trust in a way that makes me wonder if you can do that in this

situation what would you do with my trust what would you do with our relationship and the moment and this is this is just me the moment I there, often there's a turning point in that relationship from that point forward. It's different now. And just personally speaking, I think I've told this on the show before. And if I haven't, if I have, I guess it's worth repeating. One time I was sitting down with a group of guys and I had moved to a new city. And my wife was finishing up her dissertation research. So she was going to move six months later.

And so we were just going to hang out on the weekends. It was about three hours away from each other. So after about two months, I was hanging out with this group of guys and they had been really kind and welcomed me in. And several of them, I'm still super close to this day. And we were all making jokes and just being stupid guys sitting around a table.

And I said, they said, hey, do you need anything? And I was like, well, man, I'm super lonely. If anyone knows of any girlfriends here in this new city, totally kidding. And one guy, his name's Kevin, one of my closest friends said, hey, you don't know us that well. And so just so we're super clear if you ever cheat

on your wife you better hope to god she finds you before we do and it was a very like this is who we are and this is how we're gonna roll now i know some of the people in that group have have they've walked through infidelity with each other they've walked through all kinds of crazy stuff together. The difference is, and again, everyone's got their own opinions on this. This is just me. I have worked in student conduct long enough. I've sat with people who have done stupid things and had bad moments and had bad weekends. I've had bad months, right? Where they just did things that were so out of character. And so I often tell people, I don't think character is the initial incident. I think character is who you are after you do something. Yeah. Destructive, right? And so she hooks up with somebody, okay? That happens. In my world

with dealing with people who are married, that happens, it happens, it happens. You're getting to see in real time who she is on the back end of doing something that could potentially be devastating to somebody that she says she loves and that is i'm gonna lie i'm gonna hide it i'm gonna bury it and i'm gonna hand it to my friend to carry and bring her drag her through all this see what i'm saying? And so for me, the enabling is not about the marriage thing. You can no more do anything about that unless you just felt so compelled. I've got a few friends that their wives

are basically equally as close. And I would say, hey, we're going to have this conversation and I'll do it with you, but I'm not holding the secret for you. But that's just very, very few. The rest of them, man, I mean, that's, but I'm not going to hang out with you. I'm going to opt out of this relationship, right? Not because you did a thing one time, not because you did a thing over a period of a few months or whatever. It's because you showed your true colors, your true character on the back end of this

mistake. And you've continued to blame other people. You've continued to pass the buck. You've continued to lie about it. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, that hits hard, but it's true. And so you've heard me say this, it's not by your hand, but in your lap. You had a really close friend who did a thing and then it's dragged you along through the deception and the dishonesty. And if I'm you, I'm not going along on that ride. Yeah. And I think that it can be as easy as I'm just not going to return your texts anymore or calls anymore.

Or it can be as direct and honest as taking her to coffee and saying, hey, I can't be a part of this because I feel like I'm getting dragged through it because I know something. When we sit down as a couple, as a couple, you know, we're all sitting down. I know something he doesn't know. And I can't, I can't be a part of that. I can't.

And she's going to call you every name in the book and blah, blah, blah. That's cool. But as far as I'm concerned, she didn't get a photo anymore. Yeah. That's kind of how I've been feeling. i think about it you know and my husband i talk about it and we're just like it's just awkward like we just hang out with them and it's just awkward it's super awkward for real it's awkward so um what is that you know her and you know how she would hear things um there's people in my life who i love that we've been places and i'd say hey give me your keys i'm driving home and i know i'm gonna have to go ask this guy for his keys it's gonna be a fight no bro i'm fine he's not driving you're not driving home and then there's others

that are more than happy to hand the keys over how is to go? Um, it'll be a fight. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, I think though she needs to hear it because everyone else is just kind of like either a doesn't know the full information. So they're like, he's being irrational about everything, like her husband or like be like just coddling her and just being like, it's okay, get through it. So I don't think anyone has really like had the, I don't want to say courage because I don't think it's a courageous thing. It's just like been truthful and straightforward with her.

I think the truth and straightforwardness has to be about you though. Yeah. Otherwise it becomes you throwing grenades at somebody. And I just, I'm not participating in that very often. Occasionally I'll say, hey, you've heard the show enough. Like occasionally, very,

if you go back and listen to it carefully, it's rare that I say, this is a terrible person. Yeah, I'm an OG listener. So I've never really heard you say that. It's rare that I find that like you're an awful human and you don't deserve to be around. Usually it's people have, because of particular pathways, they've ended up in a place that nobody wants to be in and they don't know how to around. Usually it's people have, because of particular pathways,

they've ended up in a place that nobody wants to be in and they don't know how to get out. And that happens. This one's a mess. I just, I would sit down and say, I can't participate in this anymore. This makes it about you.

I'm uncomfortable sitting down at a table with your husband and you and acting like everything's normal because it's not. Everything's in ashes and y'all are just playing. And so I don't want to participate in this and not make it about you cheated and you're this and you're a liar. I wouldn't go that route. Make it about you and then walk away. Yeah. Short, sweet, and to the point. Which is so hard. I know. I know that's so hard. But honestly, knowing her personality, that's the best way forward in all aspects,

however it turns out. One of my core beliefs or core actions, I guess, is I only speak to be heard. I don't speak to just who, so I can have said something. I get a lot of heat on the internets for not responding to every thing that goes on in the world. And, um, if things are super volatile and political and nonsensical, I'm not going to be heard. They just, people just want to find out what team I'm on. And so for this, I'm going to speak in a way that can be heard. And that is, I am choosing to not be around you right now. And I think it's also fair to say I love you and I will walk through hell with you if you're willing to walk through hell.

But if you're willing, if you're just going to try to avoid the whole thing, I'm not taking that route with you. I really like that. Is that cool? I really appreciate that. Sorry that happened to you, man. That's such a bummer, man.

We want our friends, especially our ride or dies, to have our same values and not do stupid things. And when they do do stupid things to come to us and say, Hey, walk with me through the reconciliation through this stupid thing, or walk with me through the next chapter and phase of my life. Um, and I've got close friends that I love and I'll say what you're doing is really stupid. You can come stay at my house and your wife can come stay at my house or your ex can come stay at my house. You're welcome here. But I'm telling you, I think what you're doing is dumb because you asked me. And so I'm really honest with folks, but sorry. I wish it was a great outcome here. I don't see it being super

great. It may be in the longterm though. It may be that your words and your honesty and your directness and your friendship and the way you love your friend and hold her accountable in this wacky, accountable, free world we live in now might be somebody ripping back the curtains and the shades and letting the light in that she really needs. Thank you for loving her. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever.

Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can

be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at Better Help. Better Help is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time

for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, we're back. Let's do a lightning round.

Cue the pervy hip-thrusting music. You don't like that? No. That's the music that Kelly gets dressed to every morning and it's just uncomfortable. Her miniskirt and tattoos. She tells us. Sometimes she calls when she's brushing her teeth and that music is just blaring in the background. She wants to talk about a show segment or something. It's super awkward. So on brand for her. All right. Lightning round. Let's do it. Yes. All right. We're doing lightning round, anxiety and depression. It's going to be so fun.

Is that what you do? I just imagine you telling your husband like, we are going to clean the house and it's going to be so fun. Yes. We're going to smile while we do it. We're going to whistle and it's going to be great. Okay. Go ahead. Go for it. First question. You often hear of people being diagnosed with anxiety and depression together. Why are the two so often connected? So when something's diagnosed together, it's called comorbid. I guess that means you die again. Maybe that's what that means. Not really, not comorbid. But anxiety and depression are on the same trend line. And so you and I may have different genetics and different life experiences that lead us to this moment and a bear runs in that door and your body shuts off and it's going to stay shut off for a while and my body's going to get up and spin up and get ready to rock and roll. Often the difference between the two is not

the particular stressor, it's just how our bodies are responding. And in some brain scans studies, it shows that the very similar brain mechanisms are driving both of those. All I have to say is they're on the same trend line. And if you're anxious long enough, long enough, long enough, your body will shut the system down. And sometimes it works vice versa. All I have to say is that's why. Perfect. Is that helpful?

Yeah, I think so. I was going to say thank you for bringing up my deathly fear of bears. You had that? Oh, yeah. I've had nightmares. They just chase me. I'm not going to see cocaine bear. Let me just say that. All right. Next question. We you have that. Oh yeah. I've had nightmares. They just chased me. I'm not going to see cocaine bear. Let me just say that. All right. Next, next question. We're moving on.

What is the difference between a panic attack and an anxiety attack? Um, not a lot. Um, panic. I think that's, again, I think that's kind of internet splitting. Panic attacks usually don't have a trigger. They just show up. So we'll be walking on the street and all of a sudden I'll get real short of breath. My heart will beat a thousand miles an hour and I'll double over. And I don't, I, my brain starts, I start spinning with all these negative thoughts. Anxiety attack is usually, I've got to test.

I've got to test. I've got to test. I've got to test. And it slowly wears you down. The reason I don't care so much about which one it is, is the physiological mechanisms are usually pretty similar. Your body, I mean, your heart starts beating really fast. Your body is ready to go to war, right?

Or it's ready to get the heck out of there. And so, yeah, it's one of those things that if you're sitting there and someone you love can't breathe and they're hyperventilating and they're having all these catastrophic thoughts and you're trying to figure out, well, is this a panic attack or an anxiety? Not helpful. Not helpful. Right. Right. Okay. So are there any symptoms of an anxiety attack that I can pinpoint before it happens? Anxiety attack. I mean, it's using the internet literature, which is, that wasn't very good. There's not, nevermind. My science friends will just roll their eyes at what I just said. And so say your question again. I'm sorry, I got lost. I don't have a lot of

friends. Are there any symptoms of an anxiety attack I can pinpoint before it happens? I mean, if you start ruminating pretty hard and you start spitting yourself up and the thoughts you are having begin, your heart starts racing on you and you start having real shallow breath and you will feel like I need to go for a walk, but I can't go for a walk. You feel it starting to come on. And again, that's so person-specific, right? So I don't want someone being like, I think I'm having a panic attack. I think I'm having an anxiety attack because you can sure talk your way into one, right?

I think getting upstream, as soon as you start having those ruminating thoughts, that's when you can build in some, I'm going to stop this conversation right now. Or I've talked about on the show, I'll be walking through my living room and I'll just be like, no, stop. Or I'll be in the shower and my wife will hear me yell out, no. And that's just me. I'm stopping a conversation, a fight that I'm having because I don't want to end up down river that way. Right. Does alcohol or caffeine cause anxiety? Oh, that's a great question.

I tend to think caffeine mimics the symptomology of anxiety. I mean, symptoms of anxiety. And so if I have way, way, way too much caffeine, I start, my brain starts spinning a little faster. My heart rate is beaten. I'm kind of clenched up a little bit. And then my body is like, oh, we're supposed to be anxious right now. And it will follow suit. Alcohol has some GABA effects. I don't get all that. But yes, there's a reason why. I think Anna Lemke says it talks about it best about the

teeter-totter. And if you depress neurochemicals on one side, your brain will respond by smashing the other side of the teeter-totter. And so if you have a depressant effect and you shut some of the system down, it will come back in full force on the other side. So, yes, it can. There's a reason why you wake up in the morning after you've had too many drinks the night before and you have that anxious-y feeling. What did I say? What did I say? Did they think I was crazy? What did I – who did I kiss?

Like all that, I mean, that's a natural – I don't want to get all the neuroscience of it, but yes. Awesome. And I also think this, I also think in the long term, alcohol has, it messes with your sleep and it screws up your REM sleep. And over time, a body deprived of REM sleep will begin to try to get your attention and let you know things are not well at home and it'll start rattling. So I think there's a long-term effect there too. Yeah. What are the best things to do when having an anxiety attack? Drink. Just kidding. Don't do that. So this happened in a parking lot. I pulled up and there was a bunch of people leaning into a car. And I was like, what is happening over there? And I walked over and realized somebody yelled. Someone's having an anxiety attack.

Someone's having a panic attack. And so I cleared everybody out of the way. And then I reached in and said, will you take my hand? And she did. And I said, would you be willing to walk with me? So she got out of the car. And I literally put her hand on my chest. And we went for a walk. And so I held skin to skin contact here. I let her feel my heartbeat literally.

And we walked around the parking lot and I had her look at things like, tell me what's there. She's like, there's grass. I'm like, yes, where's the leaves? And she's like, there's one, there's one. And all I was trying to do was bring her body into the right now. And so skin to skin contact, heartbeat, like just getting your body from some future terror to you're here right now and you're okay. And it's pretty quick. Yeah. I've kind of dealt with that before where I find it helpful to do like the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 method where it's like five things that I can see just to kind of like get my mind off. Four things that I can hear, three things I can feel, two things I can smell. I've never heard that.

One thing I can taste. Kind of like to get your senses to like start focusing on something else. And by the end of it, my breathing's calmed down, my heart rate's down, and I just find it so helpful. I like that.

Back when I was doing death notifications or I would show up to somebody's house and there was madness. We used to just go for walks and it would not be strange for me to be holding hands with a 55-year-old man walking down the street. And all we're doing is just counting cracks in the sidewalk. Like let's count one, two, and let's count the trees. And so we're just coming back to humanity here because what he just saw,

his life will never be the same. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Next question. You say anxiety is like a smoke alarm. Can you explain that? Yeah. In our culture, we've turned anxiety into a disease or into a genetic disorder or into some sort of illness that comes upon you like the flu or like COVID. It's like something you catch. And so when people say the words like, I have anxiety, it's either talking like it's an identity, like this is who I am now. I'm just an anxious person who experiences the world in this way,

or I have a thing that I caught. I've got a thing now. And I reject both of those across. I mean, I reject all that across the board. All anxiety is, is your body trying to get your attention. It's just trying to let you know, generally speaking, you haven't been taking care of your body. Like me, too much caffeine, 300, 400 milligrams of caffeine a day. My body's going to start rattling after a while. And then I'm not sleeping. And then so on and so forth.

I'm disconnected. Your body has found itself without a tribe. And by the way, you can have great workmates. You can be married and happy. And you can be profoundly and deeply alone. And so it is when your body detects you don't have a tribe, you are all alone. Or if you're not safe, if you're in an abusive relationship,

you don't have autonomy, you don't get to make decisions for your life, the bank does, your boss does, things like that. Awesome. Okay, next question. So hold on. Here's why that's important. If you feel anxious, if you rush to stop the anxiousness, man, that's like getting shot and rushing to just cover up the hole in your body instead of trying to figure out where's bullets coming from, right? Who's shooting and why? And so when you feel anxious, man, what a gift your body to step back at least an inch and just say, what are you trying to protect me from? If we all just asked

ourselves that question, man, we'd have a radically different world. Right. Yeah. My husband's anxiety can lead to him lashing out at me. How can I help him at these times? I reject that sentiment. Nobody's anything makes him do anything or very, very rarely. Your husband is choosing to respond to those alarms by swinging. And so what you can do is you can't make him do or do anything. You can control you. And so if your husband gets anxious and then lashes out, you can say, I will not be in a home where I feel unsafe. So when you get anxious and you lash out,

I am taking that behavior as a language. And the language you are giving me is, I don't want you here anymore. And so I will leave. I will not be in a place where someone's going to talk to me that way, treat me like that way. And if you have anxiety and your body's impulse is to lash out, right? Fight or flight. I'm going to fight. When I get anxious, my body's response is to run. And that's not helpful when I have two little kids and I have a wife at home and I've got work and all that kind of stuff. So when you find that your body has an impulse when it gets anxious, it's my responsibility

to deal with anxiety, to deal with that impulse, and to continue to treat people with dignity and respect, including myself. That's on me. I have to do the things that I know I need to do to get well. Sometimes let's go sit with a counselor. Sometimes let's go talk to a medical doctor, psychiatrist, whatever that looks like. That's my responsibility, not somebody else's. Yeah, that's good. Is there such a thing as situational anxiety? Like before a job interview, going out of town, some have flying. I mean, we're getting into semantics here.

I just call that stress. And yes, there's tons of stress and stress is really good for you. This morning, I was lifting weights and if I had lifted weights with no weight on the bar, that would not have done my body any good. So I put weight on the bar so it would stress my body out so that my body can respond to that stress in an appropriate way. Similarly, like if you've got a job interview, your body needs to have some stress, man. It's a big deal. Don't screw this up. You're not going to get that job, right? You need to prepare. You need to shower. I don't know. I was going to say bathe. Bathe and shower, whatever you need to do. Sit down with some people and go over your

interview answers, whatever. So stress can push us to do good things. So that's situational anxiety. I mean, I just call that stress. Awesome. Okay. Last question. Is anxiety ever beneficial? Yes. Good grief almighty. Who wrote the, what's, there's a book called Good Anxiety. Who wrote that? I can't believe I just lost her name. Yeah, Wendy Suzuki. Yeah, good grief. I can't believe I lost her name.

She, I mean, she really maintains what I just said, that when your alarm systems are going off, they're actually, that's a good thing. I would say my smoke alarm in my house is a good thing. She would say, when your body's trying to get your attention and you go exercise, then it's done good for you. And so you can reframe it. I also, I mean, anxiety is such a catch-all word nowadays for anything that makes us go, we all say, I got anxiety. Not really. When I had clinical anxiety, there was nothing good about it. It burned a hole through me. And it burned a hole through my relationships and I did not respond well to it. So actually it didn't burn a hole through my relationships. I did. And so

there wasn't a lot good with it. In retrospect, as I began to get well, I began to see that I'd created a world that wasn't inhabitable for me or for my family. And so I guess it was good in that way, but man, I wish my body had done it another way. But to be honest, it probably was trying to get my attention for a long time and I just hadn't been able to do it. So it finally started shutting the thing down. Well, that was it. I don't know. I mean, you've experienced it.

Have you ever felt it to be good? You know, I don't, I don't, maybe in some situations where I'm like, oh my gosh, if I wasn't feeling anxiety, I'm like, maybe there's something wrong with me that I'm not feeling anxious about this thing. Like you said, like for job interviews, like the stress, like before of like, if I'm not feeling anxious and like excited and ready, there's something wrong with me. So I think that's the only way that I could see it as beneficial in my mind.

Gotcha. Yeah. I don't know. Here's what I don't like about the internet culture we're in now is there's going to be someone who's got anxiety, who's doubled over with it. And I don't want their husband being like, it's good for you. And that's terrible. And on the other side, I don't want somebody who's stressed out about something who thinks they've, and this is the world we got where people have just regular stress. Life is stressful.

Life's hard. And everyone runs to do away with the discomfort and they label it some sort of diagnostic. And, or they, now we've got, what was it when we had the other day that was a high functioning anxiety and we start making up crap now. Like, like when you start, start labeling everything with a diagnostic and to try to do away with any sort of discomfort, man, you do with way with any sort of growth, any way of getting from point A to point B. And we just want to stay in atrophy. And I, I, I don't know.

So I don't like the question just because it's, it can be weaponized either way. And I think stress is usually good until there's too much of it or it becomes a way of life. And I think anxiety can get your attention in a positive way

and it can also vary. So I don't wanna say it's good or bad. I think it just is. I think how we respond to it is really what determines whether it's good or bad. Awesome. Well, I had fun. That's over. You're so ridiculous. Well, I had a great time. Great time. All right, cool. That was it. Are you going to take us out with some more jamming tunes?

I mean, I can. I think the world needs some more of this. All right, we'll be right back alright we are back no disturbing music let's go to Angela in Dayton, Ohio what's up Angela? hey what's taking? nothing, my hips were after those tunes but then they've slowed down what's up? and these hips don't lie by the way Angela

what's up? they never do they never do. They never do. I'm in a situation with my family where they have an expectation that I need to help pay for bills for my parents. And I am not in a financial situation where I can help with things like that the way my brother can. Okay. And when they don't get the answer that they want, they use a lot of bullying tactics on me. Why do you let them do that?

That's a good question um i i took a break from my family about 15 20 minute 20 year breaks from them and it was the most peace i had in my life and the highest success i've had in my life why'd you come back into this mess yeah so um my grandfather was on his deathbed and um my dad was having a lot of health issues and they were they were kind of giving off a vibe like they've had a change of heart and um things were better for you know like six months I was right back down Crab Mountain all over again. So what has kept you from going back to the thing that kept you safe and sane the last time? I think back then I had my son and all of this was happening in front of my son. And for some reason, I've been slow to identify it because I don't have a child reacting to the

things that they are saying to me. Can I give you another alternative? Yes, please. You care about your child's wellness and safety more than yours.

Why is that? Why aren't you worthy of being well? I don't know. I think just because I grew up with it. There you go. Yeah. And the system pulls us back in like a vacuum cleaner.

And then we find ourselves cycled out and we can breathe again and we create our own world. And then somebody gets sick and we head back in. You may be like me. I remember at one of my jobs, I mean, I was responsible for tens and tens and tens and tens of millions of dollars in expense and revenue accounts. Hundreds of people reported up through me. It was a big job. And then I would go home for the holidays and I instantly was middle child again. And I was about 14. It's just instant. You know what I mean? It just happens instantly. I can relate to that

because I'll go out into the world and be a happy functioning person at my job and around my friends. And then once I get around my family, I turn into an eight-year-old child that's been verbally attacked and kicked around all over again. And when you show up, their bodies suddenly have an outlet that they don't normally have, which is to go back to the way things were. And so the hard part is at some point you either have to say, I'm going to give up the fantasy that this all works out in the end because it doesn't. I don't say it doesn't. It probably does not.

I think that's where I'm at right now. And if you're there, there's just going to be some deep grief. You're going to have to spend some time just being really sad and being angry because mom and dads aren't supposed to treat you like that brothers and sisters aren't supposed to treat you like that right and if we're honest you've probably contributed some and they would be like well if she had just got her crap together then all it just turns into this weird dance it's a sick dance and when you're dancing

with somebody and they're leading you too aggressively or they keep stepping on your toes you can try to coach them while the music's playing sometimes that works well um i was born with um autoimmune disorders and um muscular issues that um has i was just I was just always treated like a burden of the family. I don't think I was ever going to be in a position with my family to have the same values that my brother does. Okay. Then at some point, you've got to make a decision.

Am I going to be in this or am I going to be out of this? And you might say, I can't contribute all the money you are expecting, that you're billing me for, basically. But I do want to honor my parents and so I can contribute this. And I will continue to contribute this in this way.

And I tried that. Well, I mean, it's not a matter of try. He doesn't get a vote. Right. He didn't get a vote. And so, if he won't take this, or I demand this,

or I demand that, whatever. I'm not going to take your call. How about that? Right. And that's actually what I did. Good. Good for you

for protecting yourself. Here's the thing. It doesn't sound like they have, usually this gets messy when there's a huge inheritance or something. That's actually what I did. Good. Good for you for protecting yourself. Here's the thing. They don't, doesn't sound like they have, usually this gets messy when there's a huge inheritance or something and somebody is trying to preserve. They, they're going to put up with 10 years of being bullied and kicked around by

an idiot brother or sister in order to be a part of the inheritance. It doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about there. No. Yeah. So at some point you write the letter that you're probably not going to send. That is, I'm sorry for the, for the whole course of my life. You'll have, I've been a burden to you. I'm not a burden to me and I'm not a burden to those that love and care about me.

Right. And so I'm out. I wish you all the best. And you will probably your guts will feel like they fall out. Yeah. Because the reality of that

hitting is gonna be like a ton of bricks fair? yeah I tried holding strong for three years in this situation and it's it just feels like

I'm a shell of who I used to be when I'm around them the world needs Angela to step up and be fully Angela. Right. Will you commit to doing that? Absolutely. Okay.

And I don't say that lightly because I know what that costs you. Right. It's going to cost you holidays by yourself. It's going to cost you updates. It's going to cost you all kinds of stuff. Right. It might give you back your soul. Right.

Well, I have two granddaughters. I feel like my energy would be better spent redirecting more of it towards them than my sibling and my parents. And I think you're onto something, and I'll say it this way. We often spend so much energy going back and trying to edit things that have happened in our lives. And if you think of that like a sentence, we try to go back and edit those sentences as though we can change them.

And we can't. The only thing we can do with that pen and that paper is write something new. And if you think about it that way, you've tried for years to convince your parents to act your way, to behave your way, to lean into these ways so that your parents won't see you as a burden. And they have chosen not to. You've tried hard to lean in and to do whatever your brother's asking you to do and he continues to up the ante on you. He sends you a bill every month for what you owe

or because he decided to care and then he decided the payments. And that's just you going back and trying to edit and trying to edit and trying to edit. At some point, you can look at that sentence and say, that sentence has been written with a period at the end of it. And you look at those beautiful granddaughters and you think to yourself, I can be a part of writing something new. I can teach them that they are never going to be a burden. They're always going to be loved no matter what knucklehead nonsense they get involved in.

They're always going to have a grandma to come home to for as long as i'm now we're writing something completely new and right now the world doesn't need any more editing of the past we need people to sit down come together write new things into the future and again it's going to hurt it's going to be a season of grief and a season of sadness because the fantasy is going to finally turn into the vapor that it always was. And then you're going to be free to look at those two little girls and say,

I'm all in. Let's write something new. Thank you for your heart, Angel. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book,

Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back as we wrap up today's show. Hey, truth be told, Kelly's actually out getting, I don't know why she booked a tattoo for this early in the morning, but she's getting a giant One Republic tattoo. It's so obnoxious in old English, right across the middle of her back. That's just what she does. A favorite song off that record is off the One Republic, out of the One Republic catalog is

Secrets. And it goes like this. I need another story, something to get off my chest. My life gets kind of boring. Need something that I can confess till all my sleeves are stained red from all the truth I've said. Come by it honestly, I swear. Thought you saw me wink. Nope, I've been on the brink. So I'm gonna give all my secrets away this time.

Don't give all of them away. Or maybe to a therapist, maybe. We'll see you soon. Love you.