The Dr. John Delony Show - How Do I Tell Her That She’s Not Really My Daughter?

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Today, we hear from a man wondering how to tell his daughter he’s not her biological dad. Then, we get a special follow-up call from a mom who finally told her son the real story of how his father died. And finally, we talk with a wife hoping to bring back the fun, flexible woman she once was. Lyrics of the Day: "Mystery" - Turnstile Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My daughter carries my ex-wife's maiden name, and I took her to the doctor, and they said her maiden name in front of her, she didn't understand. She'd never heard that name before. A person's name is a deeply important part of a person's psyche.

Got a clock in my head, dude. Listen. Well, number one, this is the Dr. John Deloney show. Number two, the Glow On Turnstile record, dude, is so good. I got it stuck in my head. Got a clock in my head. Dude, the song Mystery may be the best song of 2021 and 2022. And I don't

even know when that record came out. I'm so late to that game. Turnstile Mystery. As soon as this episode is over, go check that song out. So good. And TLC. TLC! So good. And my friend Cody

came up with Third Eye Blind tickets. We're going to relive the 90s. And probably some songs I can't sing anymore. But we're going to relive the 90s. I'm pretty excited. All right, let's go straight to the calls after my little diversion there. Let's go to Paul in Birmingham. What's up, Paul?

Hey. Hey, John. What's up, dude? How are you? I'm good, man. Yourself? I'm doing okay. Fantastic, man. Just glad for the opportunity to pick your brain about some things. I'm grateful, man.

What's up? Well, about six years ago I got divorced from my wife. She was having an affair. It was a long-term affair. It was too much for me to get over at the time, we were separated, she had carried on with this other guy and she had become pregnant.

And that all didn't work out. And during the time that she was pregnant, I started spending a lot more time over there with my son, kind of helping out with the family. We had been together for about 14 years before the separation. And y'all had kids together? Yes, sir. We had one. Okay. All right. And, well, just we kind of, after being divorced for about two years, we kind of rekindled things.

And she had a baby girl that I've been raising since she was born. Okay. And I just... Are you still with your... Did you get remarried? Is she still your ex-wife? What's the status? She's still my ex-wife. We got back together, and right now we have no plans to get remarried.

Okay. But she does live with me. Okay. And we're raising both the kids in the house. And she carries, my daughter carries my ex-wife's maiden name. Okay. And I took her to the doctor about a month ago. And they kept calling her last name out, and I never responded to it.

I never really even thought about it. But then when they approached me and they said her maiden name in front of her, she didn't understand. She had never heard that name before. And she's four and a half years old now. And it kind of got me to thinking about how fast she's growing. And we just don't really know the best way to deal with that. Okay.

So, number one, thank you for calling. Number two, thank you for seeing a child in need and choosing to step into that gap and to love this little girl and raise her like your own. It's noble, okay? Yes. I'm also going to be real direct with you. Is that cool?

That's cool. So this is you and me just having a drink, hanging out, and not me coming after you. Is that cool? That's cool. So this is you and me just having a drink, hanging out and, um, not me coming after you. Is that cool? Yes. Okay. I believe, and I think the, uh, data would bear it out, but I believe that a person's name is a deeply important, um, part of a person's psyche, okay? It's what anchors them. It anchors them in the present. It's who people refer to them as. It's how they are known.

And to get really, it's going to sound woo-woo, and we could talk about the neuroscience a little bit. This idea of being known is incredibly powerful. Do you know me and do you see me and do you still love me? Those are the cores to everything, everything. And your name is how you're known. It's how I get your attention. It's how we make connection. And it's not only the present, but it's in the past. It's's lineage. It's this ultimate answer to the most terrifying question we can ask, which is who am I? Where am I from? And one of the things that racism scholars have taught me over the years is there's something about having your roots torn from the

stock and not knowing lineage i don't know where i'm from i don't know who my p i can't trace my lineage back because it stops right there does that make sense so it's a trauma not knowing where you're from not knowing who you are and what you're connected to and what you're tethered to in the modern world we've made it about about, I want to know about genetics. Am I predisposed to cancers or diseases? Or do my dad have bipolar? Those kind of things. This is, I think, a much, much deeper rooted thing.

So I tell you all that to tell you this. Your daughter's got to know her name. She's got to know where she's from. And, oh, go ahead, go ahead. to know her name. She's got to know where she's from. And... Go ahead. We have... We've been... Because her biological father

has never wanted anything to do with her. He knows that she biologically is his. He knows it, but he denies her. He disputes it. Have you adopted her? Do you have a legal claim to her?

I do not. Well, through the state, because we looked at it. Let me just ask you this. Why aren't you getting married? Because here's the deal. The arc I was making, all that who's my name and what's my lineage and where am I from is all about anchor. It's a tethering. And so I give you all the stuff about names and anchors and all that.

The single most tethering, anchoring thing for a child is a stable mom and dad, a home. Okay? A stable place to be anchored into. And y'all are playing house. Well, we're actually, we're working on the process of the adoption. Uh-huh. Because he has to, it's complicated because there's no signature on the birth certificate, to my knowledge. We've been dealing with a lawyer for about three years now.

This should not be a three-year process. It should be a very, very quick process. Either somebody, I mean, you should, your wife should have the birth certificate or your ex-wife. Does she have it? She does. Okay. Is there a signature on it?

Not by a, not by a male. Just, just her name is on it? Yes. Okay. That happens all the time. There's single moms all the time with dads who suck and they don't show up. Common thing. So she goes to the courthouse and you go through the process. What I don't know is depending on what state you live in. I don't know if any old random guy, which is what you would be considered, can adopt a kid. That's right. And so right now, the judge, the lawyer has submitted paperwork to our county judge, and she didn't respond to it.

So she sent it again, and it seems like every time she sends it, it takes months before we hear anything back. And my point is I don't want to keep anything from her. I just don't know how. But do you understand the chaos that she's experiencing? And if you try to explain this, like the challenge you and I, two grown, educated adults are having trying to track this, the four-year-old is going to read this as chaos. Oh, no, sir. We don't want it anytime soon. Well, let me back it up. This kid, okay? This kid. And this is me just being straight with you you're trying to have all sides

of you're trying to be in relationship with this woman but not go through the hurt again not go all in you're going partly in yes and so you're trying to hedge your bet against a woman that let's be honest you love her and she. And she's who you're spending time with. She lives with you. And you're trying to raise this kid as though she's your own, but you haven't taken the legal steps to make her your own. So you're just playing dad. And that's an important role right now, but you're not all in. And that girl knows you're not all in.

So however I can say this, it's not a cognitive thing with a four-year-old. They feel it. Okay. You are the most stable male presence in her life. Make no mistake. And what you're doing is a noble thing. What I'm telling you to do is that this nobility wears off because you're, you're going halfway. Okay. And, and I would rather see you sit down and go all in with mom again and create a bound home. This is who we are and where we are. And this girl will always be a part of our lives, which means you're going to have to do a lot of soul searching and forgiving.

And your ex is going to have to have some life change, which I'm assuming is all that's happened. Otherwise she wouldn't be living with you again. And we're going to create that stability there. I don't know what you're trying to gain by not connecting this thing. Because if you're married, this is a very simple, simple process. Yes, sir. The complexity here, I don't understand the hoop, shell, or jump it through.

That may be three or four other phone calls, right? Yes, sir. But you're trying to have it all without going all in and all the anytime you don't go all in and relationally it creates chaos and then you end up with all sorts of downstream challenges and that's on top of this little girl needs to know like her her name and her origin and her birthright and she's gonna have to grieve and deal with the fact that her biological dad wanted nothing to do with her which will be a soul wound as they call it forever and she's gonna have to learn that paul showed up and said i chose you and that's a different kind of love that she's gonna have to learn to understand what that even means right all that to. And that's a different kind of love that she's going to have to learn to understand what that

even means, right? All that to say is that's just going to play out over the next few years. I want her to have as hardcore of an anchor into bedrock, right? Yes. That's all I'm saying. So,

now I'm realizing as I'm talking to you, I don't even know if that wasn't your question. Should I get married or not? Or should I, like, what should I do? So tell me what your question is, man. How can I help? Well, I just, my main thing was in a perfect world. And you kind of answered my question,

is my question was this situation was more about my daughter because, I mean, I love her. Every morning she comes in, she has to give her cuddles for daddy before she goes to school. She has to lay in bed with me for at least 15 to 20 minutes in the morning before she gets up and gets ready. But, you know, my thing was, uh, you know, I, I, I am considering, uh, remarriage. I just, I was, I was with this woman for seven years before I proposed to her. Yeah. And you know, when the affair happened, you know, it kind of, and, and then I, I normalized being single for two years and, and, you know, kind of set my path. And then we rekindled things and got back together. I was never expecting that.

And then, you know, so things are so much different. But now they're kind of normalizing again. It's been. Can we say this out loud something? Can we say this out loud? You got hurt real bad. Oh, yes, sir. I know that's not cool for a Southern Alabama guy

to say out loud. Yes, sir. But that woman ripped your heart out, right? Yeah, yes, sir, she did. Okay, and after seven years, you slow played seven years because you didn't want to get hurt. And for whatever reason,

you've got built-in alarm systems that say, dude, relationships will get you hurt, it'll get you hurt, it'll get you hurt, and you finally did it, and it got you hurt. Yes, sir. Right? And so here you find yourself again. So I want you to remember this line.

I say it a lot on the show, but I'll say it again. All relationship, 100% of it is a risk. All of it. Yes, sir. All relationship, 100% of it is a risk. All of it. Yes. And the unfortunate thing about it is the only way to get the beauty out of a relationship is to go all in. And by going all in, you can get hurt. Don't get remarried for this little girl. Get remarried because you and your ex want to build something totally new.

Yes, sir. That's the main reason why we haven't remarried yet. Why is that? Because I didn't want, you know, I thought about the adoption. That part was mainly if something were to go wrong again between me and her that she couldn't keep me from my daughter. Hold on. Man, I hate to say it like this, but she's not your daughter. Yes, sir. I hate to be that guy, dude.

But she's not. Okay. I mean, legally But she's not. Okay. You haven't got, I mean, legally, she's not your daughter. Your wife right now could make one phone call and you could never see her again. I understand. Right? Now, in that little girl's mind, in your mind, in your family's mind, you are the only dad she's ever known. And that's what I want to bring the gap together from the reality that everybody

experiences in that home and the legal reality and the truth reality and the bedrock reality. And your picture, you know, like it's an old cartoon where the ice splits and your legs start getting further and further apart as those ice chunks start floating away. That's where you are

right now. Bring it back together. And it might mean that y'all Legs start getting further and further apart as those ice chunks start floating away. That's where you are right now. Yes, sir. Bring it back together. And it might mean that y'all got to go get marriage counseling, which I know is not a cool thing to do. You got to go do something and learn. We're going to build an awesome life together. Yes, sir. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. That's hard to hear, but you're right. Do you love this woman? Oh, yes, yes. If you proposed today, would you say yes? Yes, sir. Okay. So it took you seven years.

What's the hang-up this time? I don't know. This is certainly eye-opening. So, you can give me plenty to think about. What's the hang-up? You've got a hang-up. What's the hang-up? You mean as to not getting married?

Yeah. I mean, she lives with you. You're trying to be connected to her for life through parenting. I don't know. I would suppose it was the process of the divorce was... It killed you, huh? Well, yeah.

Financially and then just the amount of stress. I actually had a complete and total loss of appetite for two weeks. I didn't eat anything. And I was never hungry. And I'd never experienced that before.

It was stress. It's called trauma. It's called stress, right? Mm-hmm. It took everything from you, your money, your soul, your trust, your heart. And you're right back in it yeah i guess it's just easier to have to as you would say play play house but let me tell you something crazy now okay this is bananas um and it was a shapeshifter moment for me. Our brains can play house.

We can, I can work at a job that I know is like, I've got a friend who works at a job. It's a terrible job. It's killing him, literally killing him. But the benefits are good. And so he says something like, oh man, the benefits are good. And I'm not gonna have to pay for braces

for all my kids and whatever. And that's how he wraps his head around it. I've got another friend who drives like a lunatic, but he has some sort of rationalization. The title of the book by Vander Kolk is this, the body keeps the score. So whatever story you're telling yourself, your body knows. Okay, here's what I mean by that. If you haven't made peace with the fact that you are back into a full-fledged living in relationship with somebody who hurt you it's a recipe for dying young it's a recipe for anxiety for stress for heightened always on edge forgiveness on the other hand, is you taking that brick that she gave you. She handed you a cinder block and said, I take everything from you.

It's you setting that cinder block down because it's not hurting her anymore. It's hurting you. And you're carrying it around. Set it down and look at her and say, I'm going to do this again. Because I think she's changed. And you think you've changed. And y'all are'm going to do this again. Because I think she's changed. And you think you've changed. And y'all are not going to try to reclaim what was. You're going to build something totally new. It's going to be amazing for you, for her, for your family, for this little girl, for your son, for everybody.

Yes, sir. Does that make sense? It does. A part of me knew you were going to say that. And here's what's... I've been watching your show for a while. Hey, here's what sucks. It could all happen again. Yes, were going to say that. I've been watching your show for a while. Here's what sucks. It could all happen again. Yes, sir. I know that.

She could cheat on you and hurt you again. Mm-hmm. And the risk is, I think she's all in. And maybe that's the question. Is she all in? Are you all in? And has she demonstrated the last couple of years, I she all in? Are you all in? And has she demonstrated the last couple of years, I'm all in. I am all in on you. And maybe I was young and dumb and immature.

And maybe I made some dumb mistakes. Maybe after seven years of dating, your first five or six or 10 years of marriage, you still weren't all in. You gave her, you, you know, you liked her. So you put a ring on it and, uh, whoa, you put a ring on it and then, um, but you still weren't all in. And she felt that gap and she went somewhere else to try to fill that gap. However it is, what I want to tell you is this. It sounds counterintuitive. But the only way to make a relationship work, especially marriage, is to go all in. Pick your feet up and just go. And the only way to get hurt, or you can get hurt anyway. You can go all in and get hurt.

You can drag your feet and get hurt. The only way to make it work is to go all in. And if she's not the one, I don't want to push you into marriage, dude. Paul, if she's not the one, then it's time to move on. It's time to stop playing house and say,

I'm worth more than this. I am going to go have a relationship where it's equal. If you're back, then forgive her and say, we're not going to play house anymore.

We're going to do this thing right and we're going to be all in. And we're going to give this little girl stability that she might otherwise wouldn't have had. And I'll tell you again, Paul, you're a man of character. You stepped into a gap where most men would run. Her own dad ran. Coward.

But you didn't. Let's do some soul searching and figure out what's next. Send me a wedding invitation. If it happens, we'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving

and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the homebuying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades.

And their home buyer edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today.

All right, what's up? We are back. Let's go to Hannah in South Texas. Hey, this is a follow-up call. What's up, Hannah? Hi, how are you, Dr. John? I'm good. How are you? I'm just enjoying the warm weather. That is a very optimistic way of saying what's going on in South Texas right now. It's a little warmish, yeah. A little warmish. Yeah, we're going to take a little beach vacation on the sun, right? Yeah. This morning it was 74 in Nashville, and I took a picture and sent it to my friends,

and there's like rain in the forecast most of the week, and I sent it to my friends in Texas. I was like, hey, what are these clouds with water falling from them? What does that mean? Anyway, so it's a billion degrees right now in South Texas, right? It is, yeah. We're on the surface of the sun for sure. Jeez, I'm sorry, but not sorry.

Not sorry. Hey, so there's a follow-up call, right? It is, yeah. Okay, so I'm going to walk through the original call. The original call is, um, you and your, you were married and then your ex-husband, and then you got remarried, right? Y'all got divorced and you got remarried. And then your ex-husband ended up, um, walking into an apartment or a home and taking the life of a couple of people and then taking his own life, dying by suicide. Is that right?

Yeah. So it was his long-term girlfriend and her son who was a close friend of the son that I shared with my ex-husband. Right. What a mess, mess, mess. And we talked just a few days in the aftermath of that. So walk me through it. So it's been a ride. We're still on the ride.

You had, I'd been a long time listener of the show and was kind of following some of the advice that you give another. So when I presented, um, my son with the news, um, I, I kind of glossed over it and just said that his dad had passed away. Um, and my call to you was, how do I have this conversation of the truth? Because it is, it was on the news and it was very publicized. And how do I have this and reconcile what happened with this man that, you know, our son worshipped as a hero. And your son's got some cognitive exceptionalities, right? He's autistic? Yeah, he's autistic.

Okay. Autistic with ADHD. Um, and he, you know, I, I wanted to wait until the investigation was closed before presenting any facts. And he would advise that, Hey, look, if this is in the news, this is, it is what it is. Um, and that I wouldn't be taking anything away, but I had no role in this. And the best thing to do was to be honest and open with our son. And that's kind of where this journey started. About a month after the incident, we took your advice and sought out a counselor who specialized with neurodivergent children and trauma. So we found that unicorn that could accommodate a schedule. And then we started.

We started the therapy journey, and we turned on the therapy water hose, where it was, you know, our son was going to therapy. Then we were going to family therapy. Then I was going to individual therapy, because this resurfaced a lot of trauma from my marriage, my first marriage. And then in doing that, I had thrown myself into taking care of my son and dealing with all of my trauma and the feelings and the inconsistent feelings that I was having because I couldn't understand why I was sad and why I was missing someone that had, you know, it was an abusive marriage. Like how could I, I couldn't reconcile those feelings. So I was focused elsewhere. So then my current marriage suffered and my current husband is a police officer. Not a great time to be a police officer.

Gnarly ride for a police officer. Not a great time to be a police officer. It's been a gnarly ride for a few years. Yeah. And so he was experiencing some things at work and he didn't have a partner to check in with at home. So he was looking elsewhere and he unfortunately, like many law enforcement officers do, turned to drinking heavily. And that presented problems and resurfaced trauma from being married to an addict. So he sought help and therapy on his own. So now he's seeing therapy. And then we have couples therapy and family therapy. And we're finally getting a foothold and kind of coming together. And a lot of that I lay at your feet because I will turn on the podcast.

And it never fails that I turn it on. And there's somebody in some form or fashion on the show that is going through something that we're currently dealing with. Well, y'all are going through everything. So you're basically doing the show. We're just going to get it out. We're going to rip the Band-Aid off. We're going to rip the bandaid off. You know, we're going to rip the bandaid off. Just do it all at once. Yeah. Hey, you mentioned something really important.

Is it okay if I ask you a couple of questions? Sure. First, how did the conversation go with your son? And I ask that is I'm always interested if somebody calls back and says, hey, we took your advice. It was terrible. We should not have done what you said. And also, most people could never imagine having to sit down with their child and say, your dad did something horrific, and your dad was sick, and your dad is no longer with like the that that is so out of the realm of somebody's somebody's a normal just a regular run-of-the-mill person

walking down the street walk us through that um so the conversation i really didn't have a choice but to have the conversation because he'd found an article. Um, and the article kind of glossed over it and just said that there, there were guns found at the scene. Um, and so this was after my call with you and again, got down, I sat on the floor, he sat on the couch and I, I had to put it in context. So we watched a lot of the law and order type shows. And I said, you know how when we're watching the show, they can't just jump to a conclusion. They have to put the pieces together. So at the time, I had given you the information that I had,

which was, you know, your dad and the others, they had died. I didn't have details and the detectives didn't have details, but the detectives had to do their job and put the pieces together. And what those pieces determined was that this happened. Now, just because this happened, oh, and I checked in with them.

I said, do you have any questions about that? And he said, no. All right, so two things for the person listening. Real important when you have hard conversations with kids, even in their early teens, getting below their level or getting eye contact level with them is really important. When you have a hard conversation from a power position, one down, it can be unnerving for a child. It puts them in a state of fight or flight, and then you have this hard news. So brilliant, number one. Number two, genius. Connecting a hard conversation to something that your son can anchor into.

Yeah. I took my four-year-old when our dog died, and we buried that dog on my friend's ranch, but we dug the hole together. That moment has allowed us to talk about death when grandparents and whatnot – because we have an anchor point. And you, brilliant job. Great job you did there. Awesome. Thank you. So good. Thank you.

So he said he didn't have any questions. And I said, okay, what I need you to understand and what I need you to remember, and I will be here to remind you for all of your days, is that this in no way, shape, or form has anything to do with you, has anything to do with how your dad loved you, with how proud he was of you. It is not a reflection on you. I was like, your dad was sick. Yeah. And I just laughed it at that. You are unbelievable. You're an amazing mom.

Thank you. Like, for real. That's really, really powerful. Yeah. Good for you. It's very hard. Yeah. And we didn't, you know, we didn't start therapy right away. I said, you know, I'm, I'm looking for someone for you to talk to.

Is that okay? And he said, oh, I think I'm good, mom. And I was like, okay, we'll watch this. And I was interviewing several therapists. And if I didn't like the vibe, I wasn't even going to waste our time. And then something, he was in Spanish class, and they had a Day of the Dead project,

and they had to make the little ofrenda where they had to make the memorial. And he, really the only person that he knows that's died was his dad, so he made that he knows that's died was his dad. So he made that and that resurfaced a bunch of questions. And so where I'm answering the questions and I've always said, even when his dad was alive, I'll answer any question you want. You know, and we were digging through photos and he found a photo of his, his dad's biological father. And he said, who's that? And I was like, that's, that's your grandfather. That's your dad's dad.

Well, that doesn't look like Papa. And I was like, okay, okay. This is your dad's dad. Unfortunately, he died when your dad was younger. Well, how did he die? Well, he committed suicide. So then you have this beautiful autistic brain sitting there. He looks for patterns in the world. He said, well, if my dad did it and his dad did it, does that mean I'm going to do it? And never, never, ever, ever, ever, ever did I think that I would have to answer or visit that question, and the only thing I could say is I certainly hope not, because, and the difference is if you have a support system, and you have a mom who is here for you and loves you, and I will move heaven and earth to get you whatever help that you need here for you and loves you and I will move heaven and earth to get you whatever help that you need. Do you want to talk to somebody? Mom, I want to talk to

somebody. Got it. And you know, I had a list of people that I thought would be a good fit. And that's when we started the weekly sessions with our unicorn who's been great for the almost year now. So it's been a ride. It's been, yeah. Yeah. This is not in what to expect when you're expecting. No, they left, I think this chapter got cut out. Yeah, they left this one completely out. Yeah.

Can I change one thing for you to tell this young boy moving forward? Sure. If he ever asks that question again, smile and say no. Can I change one thing for you to tell this young boy moving forward? Sure. If he ever asks that question again, smile and say no. Not I hope not, not I think not. Smile and say no. Because now he has a, he's got a path laid out in front of him that he knows the ending of. And now that we know that if you drive down that road, here's what's at the end of that road,

we're not going to take that road. And if we find ourselves on that road, we're going to hit the brakes. Okay. Right? And so we now have a path elsewhere. And this other path is going to be hard because we don't know it. It's going to be new. It's going to be us in the woods. That's what counseling is. It's teaching us how to make new paths in the woods. And someone's going to walk with us. That's what a counselor does.

That's what your unicorn does with you. But the answer is just a smile and a no. You're stuck with me for the long haul. Yeah. And when the light feels really low, we're going to remember granddad, and we're going to remember dad, and we're going to make that phone call. And so in a strange way, a very strange way, it's a surreal experience you're having, and I know that. Yeah. We're norming death by suicide because it's happened twice

in the lineage. It is our life, right? It's our life. And so since it's our life, same with granddad was struggling with, I don't know, any number of things. Granddad had cancer. Dad had cancer. I now know I'm going to be extra careful about my tests and about my diet and about fill in the blank, right? Granddad was 300 pounds overweight and struggled with disorder eating his whole life. Dad was struggling with disorder eating. I know I'm going to have to be on top of that stuff. And so it gives us a path, right? It's not deterministic, but it gives us a path. So anyway, I'm just telling you, I mean, you listen to the show.

I do. I think you need to start your own podcast on how to be a good mom. I mean, it's just amazing. It's amazing. Okay, I want to touch on one other thing before I let you go. Is that cool? Sure. Because this comes up a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot.

And that is loving somebody, being in relationship with somebody, being married to somebody, being in a partnership with somebody while they're experiencing trauma. And the – this is a terrible analogy. And so forgive me. And for everybody on the internet who are mean, just don't be mean about this. That's just not a good analogy. But it's a time, when I was a kid, I was riding a little scooter and I slipped out in the street and my feet got caught behind me and they were dragging until I stopped. And so I pulled all the skin and down to the muscle off of my feet and I ran inside and my parents were gone and just my sister was there and she was a kid too. So I'm not mad at

all. But her first words were, ah, you're getting blood on the carpet. Not, oh my gosh, you look really hurt. And so there's something about being connected to somebody who's struggling and you got a wound and you're getting blood on the sheets. You're getting blood on the carpet. And yet I'm still trying to care. I'm trying to care about you because you're clearly hurt. And there's a tension there when I know my wife is getting the care she needs. She's getting the counseling she needs.

She's been through hell and back. And why does she keep talking about this ex? Why is she feeling so down? What about me? Why doesn't she fight? Right. And so that she keep talking about this ex? Why is she feeling so down? What about me? Why doesn't she fight? Right. And so that question, what about me comes up and it's not a, people like to make it a character thing. It's not, it's a human nature thing. Do you still love me? Do you still see me? Do I still belong? And at the same time, you're going through hell, right? Walk us through that in your marriage. So, like I mentioned, he was an officer and he had experienced outside of just day to day trauma that officers experience true trauma where, you know, it, it led to, he's, he's a very stoic. Um, I don't want to put my burdens on you. And it's, it's been like that since the dating ages. So, um, very stoic. Don't want to

burden you with my, my problems. I'm here to support you and relieve you of everything you carried in your first marriage is how this has been. And I, I just kind of left it at that. And so I, I wasn't checking in because I got tired of checking in and being like, it's fine. I don't, you don't need to worry about it. Like I've got it. That, that, that stoicism, um, left me not having a place to help him. Um, and let me say, let me say that different him. Let me say it a different way. That stoicism is a brick wall. It's a concrete pillar. It's hollow.

And it's less about you being able to help him, but there's no way for you to plug in. Right. There's no connection there. That's exactly what it was. And that's what it had come down to is I had checked out. I was like, okay, well, if you don't need me, I need to help myself. And I know my son needs me. So this is where I'm putting my resources. Like, um, and he, you know, I threw myself into fair, you know, individual therapy and therapy for, um, my son and, and work got crazy. So I was trying to deal with craziness at work

and let's throw in building a house in this crazy market. Why not? And it's a billion degrees? A billion degrees surface of the sun. And so the only thing that he had to do, not the only thing, the path that he chose to take was drinking. So a few beers after shift

turned into a six pack, turned into a nightcap, turned into half a bottle, turned into a bottle. And so it kind of, we hit the wall around the holidays because there's never stress at the holidays. Why not? And we hit the wall and quite literally holes in the wall and I left. And I said, I'm not doing this again. I did it in my first marriage. We don't need this. You figure stuff out.

And he did. So can I say this? I have a friend whose dog got hit by car his beloved dog and he ran out in the street to grab this dog and it reached up and it bit him it was hurt so bad it just snapped right and he ended up having to go to the hospital and get stitches in his hand. And he was also heartbroken. The dog ended up passing away. It was a mess. But I remember him saying, I can't be mad at the dog. Dog was hurt. Right. And the dog mistook me for a threat. And I tell you to say this, sometimes when we are recovering from major trauma and from hurt and from pain, things just end up, like you said, all over the place, up against the wall, all over the place.

And there's this moment of the lights are on. I'm sorry. And I still love you. And I'm sorry. And I still love you. Let's figure this out. And it sounds like that's been y'all's adventure moving forward. Yes. So, um, I, I had offered help up until, up until that point. And again, it's, I couldn't plug it in. We, we could, we were so disconnected, um, to it, um, that I was like, if you're not

going to talk to me, you need to figure this out. Um, and, and he did, it was, I mean, the next day phone calls were made. Um, so he sought intensive treatment and therapy. And, you know, we've been back together. And it's been, we are making it work, whether it be, you know, telehealth appointments through BetterHelp, where, you know, he finds a parking lot and I'm in the parking lot at lunch. And we're having these couple these weekly couple of sessions. We're making that a priority and still working on ourselves and still working to fix this for our son and navigate what this looks like. Because now we have to be the bridge to the other side.

Whereas before it was his dad that was maintaining those relationships. The only way to access this is for us to reach out to his dad's family and say, hey, what do you want to do? I'd like for y'all to continue to be part of his life. Gotcha. So we have this weird, very modern family-ish thing going on that neither of us ever thought we would have coming from divorced homes ourselves, where once a month we're up with my ex sister-in-laws, you know, um,

in North Texas. So he can connect with his cousins and all that other stuff. I, it's, it's a wild, wild ride. And I just thank you for starting us on it, I think. I just, I mean, you can say thank you to me.

I'm just sitting here in awe. I think I'm thanking you for your bravery and for your continued getting back up and going again. And the words that keep coming to mind as I'm listening to you is you did it anyway. You didn't want to have that hard conversation. You did it anyway. And you didn't want to deal with the trauma that you had just tried to marry into and to do away with.

You married a different version, right? And of the same issue. And then you decided to deal with the trauma and you did it anyway and then your marriage got really hard it got scary and you decided to do it anyway and now you're having to figure out a new life that was not in your plans at all and you're doing it anyway and i i've come to believe that the phrase do it anyway is the cornerstone of physical and mental health like yes do it anyway take your meds do whatever you got do it anyway. Take your meds, do whatever you got to do, do it anyway. And so thank you. Thank you. It's amazing. And the last thing I'll tell you is moving through this new season is going to take super tight, committed boundaries with you and your husband,

who that guy sounds like a rockstar too. I mean, just an amazing man to be able to run up against his limitations and say, I can no longer like try to bang my head against this concrete wall. I hope it'll fall down. I got to take a knee here. I got to call somebody. What a, that's a modern day hero, man. Everybody involved here. Really incredible.

Really, really, really incredible. Huh. Very incredible. Yeah, it's just amazing. That's it. I got like, oh, geez louise. Hey, we'll be right back. I'm just out, I'm out of words

and I'm never out of words. And so we'll be right back. All right, let's take one more. Let's go to Sarah in Kansas City. I got my words back. What's up, Sarah? Hi, how's it going today? Good, how are you? Oh, you know, just trying to beat in Kansas City. I got my words back. What's up, Sarah? Hi, how's it going today? Good. How are you? Oh, you know, just trying to beat this Missouri heat. Yes. It's just hot. The whole

country is just hot. Hot. Yes, exactly. So what's up? Well, I am hoping you can help me show empathy to mainly my husband and family and really be a fun wife again oh man all right tell me more so my husband and i have been married seven years this coming fall we have two toddlers who are three and one and a half so obviously a lot has changed in the last three and a half years with pregnancy and two small children coming coming our world. And, you know, my husband just tells me I'm not fun, joyful. Why is Eddie married? I'm mean and grouchy. And, you know, frankly, I feel like that some of the time.

Okay, so he's not here to defend himself. And so I'm just going to talk to you, okay? Yep. Are you mean and grouchy? Yeah, sometimes I am mean and grouchy, yes. You're hedging your bet. That means sometimes you're super fun and playful and exciting? Yep. Yeah, sometimes I mean, yes. You're hedging your bet. That means sometimes you're super fun and playful and exciting.

Yep. Sometimes like on the weekends, right? And then during the week, it's like business, right? Like we got the routine with the kids. It's hard for me to break routine. It's it's this balance now that we have two toddlers and not babies. It's this balance of when to say yes and when to say no, when to give in to my crying toddler and when to hold the boundary. Right. And so that's.

Lucky for you, all the internet information is exactly the same. It all just tells you what to do. It's so stupid. Okay. So who were you before these toddlers ruined everything? Well, we recently started counseling and- Ruh-roh. I feel, I know. Well, it's helping, right?

It's helping. And I feel like some of the bringing up, I would say, it's not really trauma, but the ordeal, the life situation I was given as a child is now coming up more so. What's that? So my dad passed away when I was a kid and I grew up with a stepdad who pretty much gaslit me my whole life. I never really had a voice in my house and I did never find my voice. And so I overcompensated to try and fix everything and I'm apologetic and so and hold on you apologize and try to fix everything

you try to make sure everybody else is okay yep some of that may come from your gaslighting stepdad how old were you when your dad died two and my stepdad came in old were you when your dad died? Two. Okay. And my stepdad came in at four and a half, five.

Okay. My guess, and I could be way out to lunch, way out to lunch, two and three and four, there's some pretty formative years there, may have been more around the emotional regulation of your mom. Yeah. Okay. You could probably learn at a really young age if I do this, mom shuts down. Mom dealing with

your dad's passing, his grief, right, is a lot. All that to say is this. You have a tether from the past to the present? Yep. Bring me back here. Yeah, so I think every time I, I mean, heck, I'm doing it right now.

Every time I try and have a hard conversation, I start to cry. It's like my instant reaction. That's not a bad thing. That's not a bad thing. No. It just sometimes drives my husband nuts because he's like we're just having a conversation why are you crying

and it's like I can't control it my body just reacts this way and then I start to apologize I'm sorry I'm so sorry I'm crying I'm sorry that I'm doing this I don't want to be doing this and I'm trying to fix it so let me tell you this you're not broken

you don't need to be fixed okay okay your tears are a signal they're a gift they're letting you know something about you that you care about something that's all your husband needs to kind of get over that okay kind of move on and this is the pot talking to the kettle because every time my wife would cry be like what i do what have it and she finally was like it's not about you. The whole world's not about you. Every thought in my head and everything in my body is not about you. And I was like, oh, well played. Okay? Yeah. You're not broken.

Good for you for being a person that still feels. Well, thank you. It's awesome. It's good. Okay. You're not broken. Okay, so who were you before these toddlers ruined everything? I mean, I think, well, I think my job has a lot to do with it.

I got a new job also four years ago. So let's just throw that into the mix. Might as well. Okay, let me back up. I want to follow through. I want to make sure I don't lose this. Yep. Were you fun and crazy and super girlfriend and super fun wife as a way of making sure your husband stuck around?

No, I don't think so. I think I was just more relaxed. I think I just didn't. I was a bit in a sense like things just I didn't hold as much anxiety or if we do this, I'm going to ruin the kids. You know, I'm going to, you know, I, I'm more structured now, which is probably difficult. Um, and I think I'm, I, I'm just really struggling to find the balance of like, when did you just say screw bedtime? We're going to, you know, we're going to go to a park on a Wednesday night. And if the kids go to

bed late, who cares? You know, even though we have to work on Thursday morning right um if my husband says hey let's go to the park and then you know it's I'm looking at the clock being like it's 6 30 our kids go to bed at 7 like does that make sense you know like okay hold on there's so much here um okay I'm gonna just dive right in you tell me me when to shut up, okay? Okay. So the reason I asked you, and your answer, I'm so glad you gave that answer. I wanted to see if that the emotional regulation of your mom, the gaslighting, if that kind of stuff had,

you were playing a role as the super fun person. We all have friends who played a role at the party. They drank a couple more drinks. They were a little bit louder. They made out with a few more people. Like, because that was the role they were assigned in whatever group they were in, right? And you're telling me this.

Yeah, that was definitely not my role. I was the girl like driving everybody home and staying responsible. Okay, so you're, okay. And then you met a guy that you loved and you could anchor into. Yes. And by anchoring in for the first

time, probably in your life, because your dad passed away when you were young, your mom struggled with that grief, and then your stepdad came in and made you the reason all his life sucked. And then you met this guy and you could finally go, whoo!

You're hitting the nail on the head, John. And then two things happen. The moment you have that first baby, your body has a pin in that and it remembers that somebody goes away. Okay? Yep. Somebody's going gonna go away and you're looking at that little baby and you're conjuring up story after story after story about who's gonna go away and when and why and then as the

person who drives everybody home from the party you start creating lists and objectives and things and you're gonna feed that anxiety you're gonna solve that anxiety with more data but you're gonna feeding it because you're gonna get some more information you're going to feed that anxiety. You're going to solve that anxiety with more data, but you're going to feeding it because you're going to get some more information. You're going to do this and it, and it becomes an exercise in I'm going to control every freaking variable. So somebody doesn't go away again. Is that fair?

Wow. Yes, that is completely fair. And then it gets more fun. Um, you start grabbing the steering wheel so tight that the circulation gets cut off in your hands and you don't even know who the hell you are anymore.

And the people around you don't know who you are anymore. And what you do know is your hands are so tight on that wheel that you can't reach over and hug that kid. And you can't reach over and grab your husband by the back of the neck and give him one of those weird crazy kisses you used to give him. Fair? Yes. And most importantly,

you can't let go of that thing and look in the mirror and say how's Sarah doing and so here's what I want to tell you okay

somebody's probably not going away and so there's a moment when you have to make peace with your body who's trying to love you and remember the worst

trauma ever and say thank thank you. But we're good now. We're good now. Okay. And then you've got a three and a one-year-old, which is just shaking the snow globe. I mean, it's not,

it's not a hundred percent of, I've never met in my life a couple who's like, I got a three and we had a three-year-old and a one-year-old and our sex life is insane. I've never met that couple ever. Yeah. A hundred percent of couples

with a three and a one-year-old are like, I don't know what day it is. I don't even like my husband. He's disgusting. And my wife's weird. And she's gotten me. I've never, I've never met that couple who's not like that.

So you've heard me say this a million times and I'll say it a million more times, okay? The fun, exciting, curious adventure to go on now is not anymore. It's not how can we get back to. And that's some language. I know he's not here to defend himself. That language has to go away

because anymore is gone. Yeah. Pre two kids. Yeah. Sarah doesn't exist. She's a myth. She doesn't exist. Like she's back there.

And by the way, pre two kids, a husband is, isn't exist anymore. Yeah. And so the only question we have is, or there's two questions. How can we drag the past

into the future? And it's going to be a copy of a copy of a copy, a fifth rate B team JV version of what was. It's going to be a weird weekend where you have five drinks so you can become crazy Sarah again. And he's going to get a half fun, half weirded out, half tired, half grouchy. You know what I'm saying? It's just a copy of a copy. And that's you right now, right? Or y'all are gonna build something totally freaking new and say, now we have two little kids we've brought into this thing. And I still wanna be fun, crazy, reckless, sexy Sarah.

It's just gonna have to be after bedtime, which means I'm gonna work on texting you in the day, getting you fired up. And I'm going to work on wearing something different if that's something that you're going to talk about. And you are going to work on helping with bedtime because that's the hottest thing you can do right now, right? Yeah. Or you're going to have to cut your gym short. You can't work out for an hour and a half. You've got to do it for an hour now because I need those 30 minutes you help with the dishes,

washing the bottles, whatever the thing is in your home. It is let's create something new and we're going to create it for this season. And then that three and the one-year-old, I'm telling you, you're about to get magic corner. You get about three years away from magic when both of those kids can bathe themselves and then dude, and then go to the bathroom by themselves. It's like a whole other planet opens up. Right. And then you're going to recreate it then. And then we're going to recreate it a little bit later? And then you're going to recreate it then. And then we're going to recreate it a little bit later.

And then we're going to recreate it a little bit. You know what I mean? So the exercise and the excitement and the fun is now, let's create something magic and let's just live into it. And the living into it is fun, right? We get to do cool stuff. It's that intentionality, not the way things were. Is that fair?

Yeah, that's completely fair. And I've not met any couples who that doesn't become a cool adventure. Yeah. Because then he gets to say, here's what I need. And you get to say, here's what I need. And then it's like, oh, sweet, I can make that happen. You mean all of this happens if I just do those things? And then you think the same thing.

And then, dude, now we're in magic time. Yeah. Does that make sense? That makes sense. And let me tell you one more thing. And then dude, now we're in magic time. Yeah. Does that make sense? That makes sense. And let me tell you one more thing. My wife told me this and it was a really important moment. It's about budgeting. We would come up with a budget and we would like, we want to have these financial goals. We'd really have a budget, have a budget, have a budget. And then we'd get about three weeks in and we had the last week of the month. And then I'd come home from work really tired. And I would say, let's just go out and eat. And I would name some fancy restaurant.

And she'd be like, Hey, that's not in the thing. And I'd be like, I know, dude, it's the last week. Let's just go, dude. We can do this and this and this. And she, I did this for years. And then she told me one day, you are using me. You are making it my responsibility to be the bad guy in this budget thing. And that's not fair. We both agreed on X and now you're turning it around on me and making it my fault. And so when it comes to things like bedtime, I think routines and bedtime and kids is really, really important, especially three and under. And so letting your husband know every time you throw that out, you're making me be the bad guy.

And it's not fair. It's not cool. Does that make sense? And usually he's tired and just wants to go have some fun with his kids. And he doesn't know what that looks like, just playing with trucks. And I don't know what's happening with a one-year-old

just laying there going, and so let's go to the park. It just playing with trucks. And I don't know what's happening with a one-year-old just laying there going, ah, ah. And so let's go to the park. It just sounds like a thing people do on TV. And then he throws it out there. And then you say no. And that feeds his story that my wife's just gotten old and boring. And he throws it out there.

And that feeds your story that my husband's completely unglued, unconnected to these kids. I don't know what's happening in here. Why is it, you see what I'm saying? And then he's become this self-reinforcing dance. Yep. So don't have the conversation when you're upset

or when he throws that grenade. Have it offline in a planning. Let's create something new. Let's do this new adventure. Hey, don't make me the bad guy on these deals. If we agree bedtime's important, bedtime's always gonna be important, at least through the first three years.

And then if we wanna do a surprise thing here, a surprise thing there, awesome, let's go do that. Let's have some fun adventures. About once a month now, once every two months, my daughter just has a night where she's not sleeping. She's six. And I'll go sit out there and I'll read. She'll color. We have a magic time. She sits about an hour and a half later than normal and she's at peace. And then she goes, it's awesome. It's hard to do that with a one-year-old, right? Occasionally, but it's just hard to do that with a one-year-old. Don't let him make you the bad guy. So quick recap, your dad passed away and your body's looking for the next person to leave,

especially now that you got these little ones. Probably nobody's going to go. So when that anxiety comes up, when your body comes up, when that idea that I need to grab control, I got to grab control, when it starts coming up, thank your body. Thank you for trying to protect me, but I'm good now. I got to grab control. When it starts coming up, thank your body. Thank you for trying to protect me, but I'm good now.

I got a rock and I'm a good, good mom. And then y'all just excavate everything. What was the dating y'all the first couple of four years with no kids y'all. And now you have a new adventure, a new sexy, romantic, fun,

off kilter, exciting, whatever adventure ahead of you. It's also going to have regular bedtimes for the little ones and plan it and be specific about it and then go get it. You're awesome, Sarah. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we are back in my version of Turnstile's Mystery. At the beginning of the show, I did not do justice to you, but here's the lyrics of the day. This is my favorite song. Oh, it's so good. There's a gun to my head. Are you gonna get it right?

And I believe in holding on to life but I'm afraid to and it's been so long is all the mystery gone and it's been so long there's a clock in my head is it wrong or is it right and I know you're scared of running out of time

but I'm afraid to and it's been so long is all the mystery gone is all the mystery gone? Is all the mystery gone? Turnstile, go check out Glow on Record. And for everybody watching, no, the mystery's not gone.

There's more mystery to be had right here on the Dr. John Dillon Show. Coming up on the next episode. Nobody in the world calls me Dr. John. Except for people who call the show. My friends call me words that I won't repeat here. Same with my wife. Kelly, you call me mean things. That's your face. That's true. That's true. I watched your show a while back looking at

gaslighting in the movie Tangled. My husband and I have been married over 10 years now, and he is an expert gaslighter. If I ask a direct question, just make me feel like I'm crazy for asking a question. For whatever reason, you asked that one question and he feels a certain way, doesn't know how to look in the mirror and say, these are my feelings happening to my body about my issues. The response is, she's making me feel this way, so I've got to turn this back around on her. His dad was very much verbally and emotionally abusive towards me in front of him. At the time when we lived together, my son would step up in front of me, which was shocking

because he was little, and he would be like, you can't talk to mom like that. And then now I find him, now that we're separated, he talks to me similar to the way his dad used to talk to me. Here's a devastating thing about what you just described, abusive relationships, is he knows that part of you is part of him and that part of dad is part of him. And so if he identifies dad as bad or wrong or evil, that means part of him is bad or wrong or evil.