The Dr. John Delony Show - How Do We Talk to Our Kids About School Shootings?

Episode Date: January 7, 2022

You don’t grow, heal, or move forward unless you have hard conversations. Learn how as we talk to a parent who doesn’t know how to talk to their kids about school shootings, a wife who finally confronted her immature in-laws (this one is awesome), and a mom who doesn’t know if it’s wise to tell the kids their dad has become an atheist. How do we talk to our kids about school shootings? Follow-up call: my in-laws are not respecting our COVID boundaries Should we tell our daughter that her dad lost his faith? NutureShock: New Thinking About Children - Po Bronson & Ashley Merryman Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk about how to tell your kids about school shootings and other tragedies. We have a follow-up call with a woman who had a hard conversation with her in-laws about COVID and boundaries. And we talk to a woman about how to tell her daughter that her husband's lost his faith. Stay tuned. What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Man, I'm so glad you're with us. Hope you're doing well.

Hope your new year's off to a great start. Hope you are keeping all of your, what do you call them, resolutions? I was gonna say traditions, but that's not a thing. Hope you're keeping your resolutions. If you don't make them, you're like, oh, I'm going to say traditions, but that's not a thing. We'll be keeping resolutions. If you don't make them, you're like, oh, I'm too cool for resolutions. Well, cool. Make some.

It's not too late. Otherwise, I hope you're doing well, man. Hope you're doing well. Kelly, James, y'all doing well? It's good to see the whole band back together. Good to be back. Y'all have been off taking care of your families and vacationing and all those things. Like I said, it's good to be back.

Moving. Oh, yeah. Man, that means a lot. It makes my heart feel good, Kelly. Because after we spent a lot of time together, most people are like, that's enough Deloney for all of us for a while. So it makes me happy that you're glad

to be back. Well, I get paid to be here. See, you had to go ruin it. We were having a moment and there it went. There it went. Let's go to Detroit Rock City. Let's just change the show here. Let's go to Detroit Rock City. Talk to Seth. What's up, brother? Seth, how we doing? Hey, good, man. Thanks for having me on. You got it, dude. What's up? Hey, hold on. You have kids? Yeah, four of them. How old are they? Nine. I didn't hear the whole conversation, though, so I'm not sure I can weigh in.

But we've got a nine-year-old, five-year-old, two-year-old, and one-year-old. Does your nine-year-old know about Santa Claus? She knows the truth, I should say, yeah. There you go. Well done. That's all I'm saying. All right, dude, so what's up man alright well my family and I live about

20 minutes from this whole Oxford situation that's been going on so I guess you know out of respect we don't have any kids that go to Oxford we don't have really intimate friends

or family that go there, but, um, I can't, it's unimaginable what they're going through. Um, but we're sitting 20 minutes away with schools that have been on lockdown and threats everywhere. And two of our kids having, um, two of our kids being school age, and we're just trying to figure out how do we talk to them about what's going on appropriately. Good call, man. So for those who haven't paid attention or just, you know, this show will air a month or two later. Oxford shooting where the young man went into high school. I guess he got his dad's gun and opened fire and killed some young kids, some teenagers.

And the whole thing's been a mess, injured a bunch of people, and it's been a mess. And yeah, we often think about that tragedy there, that those tragedies have an epicenter, obviously, but they ricochet through our families and through everything. And here you are, a parent of four young ones asking, is it okay to go to school, right? Right. So you're 20 minutes away. Walk us through. You get the first call and the second call,

and then if you're like most of us, I need to put my eyes on my kids right now. Walk us through what you experienced. Yeah, so I own a physical therapy practice, so i was with patients most of the day and i kind of missed most of what was happening um but i got some messages from my wife kind of towards the end of the day and um it was mostly just second hand i don't think we really knew the extent of what was going on until i got home. Um, and our kids, fortunately, well, not fortunately, they were sick, so they weren't in school that particular day. Um,

I should say one was at home, one was at school. Um, we just kind of were in shock, I guess. We didn't really talk about it much that evening. Um, cause we didn't really know what to say. And my wife and I just were trying to sort through the details and understand it ourselves, I guess. Man. So have your kids asked questions? Um, yeah. And I guess that's part of my question too, right? Is they haven't asked a lot of questions. Um, and I'm not really sure how far to dig, um, for their emotions and their feelings. Um, and, um, they, you know, our, our son is in transitional

kindergarten. He's, he was a five year old and they went into lockdown as soon as this thing happened. And he came home just saying kind of, you know, Hey, I was really brave today. And you know, we did this thing and he described it like it was no big deal. Um, and our daughter on the other hand, uh, going back into fourth grade the day after, I think, you know, she heard a lot of stuff from a lot of different opinions kind of all over the school. So they haven't asked a lot of details about what happened. Um, but we're just, and we've had conversations with them already, honestly.

Honestly, your show has been helpful in that way. I appreciate that. But I just don't know. I guess I'm worried about how much they will internalize this thing. Because when we look at the behavior over the past week or so here, they're both back in our bed every single night. There's just a lot of like, there's a lot of stuff that tells us that everyone's amped up right now,

even though no one's saying it. Does that make sense? Yep. Yep. And I want to make sure we honor that. And I don't really know how, I don't really know how to go about that. Dude, your kids are so lucky to have you, man. I'm glad that there's dads like you out there raising kids like you're raising. It's good, man. I'm grateful for you. You and I could go grab a drink and talk about this for a while. These kind of things rattle me

because I've been to these scenes. I've shown up to these situations where there's still blood on the wall, where there's, I mean, where there's a mess. And it's, I got a visceral response, as we all do, right? We all do. And if you got little kids,

it's 20 minutes down the road. It's a whole other level, right? And then the whole thing's a mess, man. So here's a couple of things that I keep in mind here. Okay. The first thing is this. Kids are looking for models of feelings because they have them. And they, when they, a lot of times adults want to, we want to put on a brave face. We want to show that we are strong. We want to show that we are unfazed, that the day is still going on. And the challenge with that, I get the sentiment there. But a kid feels terrified.

And if he looks to the people that he trusts the most and sees, or she or she looks to the people they trust the most, and they don't acknowledge sadness, terror, being scared or whatever, they feel crazy. And the way a kid deals with feeling crazy is, you know, 50 different ways, but they will try to do what they can to nuzzle up next to their parents by like causing chaos, being bananas, being perfect little angels. Those are all coping mechanisms to try to get back into relationship. So one of the things I would do with your nine-year-old, and again, these is all, like my friend Rachel Cruz, she says, share, don't scare. All these are age-appropriate conversations. But let's start with your nine-year-old. I would, if this happens in my

house, I would take my nine-year-old and we'd go for a walk somewhere. And I would tell him, hey, or we get coffee, I'd look him in the eye, make sure he sees me and tell him, hey, you know this thing that happened? I'm really, really sad. And it makes me really scared that somebody would do this. And that sounds counterintuitive, but it's freeing for a child. It makes him feel not insane. And then they get to see, hey, I'm scared and I'm still going to go take care of my body. I'm scared and I'm still going to hug mom. We're still going

to go through our routine. And then they start to learn, oh, it's okay to have feelings and they don't control everything. And so giving them that gap, letting him know I'm your dad and I'm a grown man. I got a PT practice. I'm crushing, I'm doing great. I'm tough and I get scared too. And it's okay to say there's an uncertainty there that I want him to understand that you get. When it comes to like a younger kid, they come home and they say, hey, I was really brave today. I think it's good to ask one more question. Like, what were you brave from? Why did they make you go into that room? And then let them know, yeah, somebody did something bad today. They

hurt some people. Somebody was sick and they made some really bad mistakes and it was scary. Mom and dad were really scared and I'm glad that you're safe. And then hug the daylights out of them and let them know, huh, mom and dad get scared. And right, so we're teaching them these things. Now I wouldn't say, you know, a gunman went in and opened fire on a school. I wouldn't give that level of detail to a four-year-old, but I would let them know, yeah,

somebody was sick and they hurt a lot of people. And I was scared that you got hurt, but I'm so grateful that you're not hurt, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. The kids are asking, am I crazy? Are my feelings normal? They're asking, am I safe?

And that's what touch does for a kid. Like, I'm here. And presence does. And then they ask who's in control. And I think that's where you don't want to tell a nine-year-old, like, yeah, this crap happens, man. Like, we're just going to have to roll with it. You don't want to pass that sort of chaos onto a nine-year-old like yeah this crap happens man like we're just gonna have to roll with it you don't want to pass that sort of chaos onto a nine-year-old but there's something about um i'm gonna control what i can control and i'm gonna love you and then we're all still gonna

go to bed in our own beds right yeah and it's okay to have a season where they come over home and like just for a couple of nights they're gonna stay in our bed i'm okay with that man i just something that i'll never forget this. I'll tell you this. I'll never forget. I was with my partner and we were out of the scene. Oh man, it was gruesome. It was a gruesome scene. And it's happened one time and it was with a kid, a child. And I told my partner, I got to step out. And that's the cardinal sin. You never leave your partner. Her name is Janice. She's like, she was incredible. She, I had a little girl and I stepped out of that situation.

It was too close to home. It was a whole thing was a mess. I helped on the outside and she took care of inside stuff. And I got home probably at 2 a.m. I think, 1 a.m., 2 a.m., 3 a.m. And I went in and woke up my kid. I mean, he was half asleep,

but I went and woke him up and hugged him. And that wasn't for him. That was for me. You know what I mean? And that's okay. And there's probably some comfort in it. We've done a fair amount of that. There you go, right?

I don't want your kids to think that their job is to prop you up. Right. Right? But I needed to hug my kid. I needed to make sure he was still breathing. I know that sounds bonkers until you've been in the middle of it, but I just,

I needed to check in and that's okay. Now it's not his job, but I needed to check in. So as long as it doesn't become six months from now and they're still sleeping in your bed or four months from now, three months from now, they need to know that the routine is important, that control is important,

you get up and do the right thing every day and that mom and dad still love you, but we're going to move back to our beds. But I think a couple of nights of tethering in is going to be big. How are you? It's scary. It's not a lot.

Yeah. We don't think about ourselves enough sometimes, I think. it's not a lot of yeah we don't think about ourselves enough sometimes I think but we I don't know I'm doing okay

I think I stay busy a lot yeah how's your wife I think overall it's been a really tough couple of weeks

yeah that's reality yeah so I would recommend you sit down with your wife and hold one or both of her hands and have a moment of vulnerability and just say, hey, we got four little kids. How are we doing? This is hard. And sometimes those unspoken things, you get busy and you go back to work and she doesn't want to bother you with she's terrified or you don't want to bother her with it and you kind of get you get that you get that gap and that gap grows over time and i think checking in with your spouse and saying hey how

are we like how are you i know this is heavy and maybe she hasn't felt permission to cry yet or she has cried a lot she doesn't want to do it again or maybe you haven't had permission just to go man this sucks um but i do think it's important to check back in with each other. I think that would be good. Cool. Well, brother, I'm grateful for you, man. Thank you so much for being there with our kids. To everybody listening, we could do a whole show on this stuff, man.

What an absolute disaster. What an absolute mess. Your kids want to know know are their feelings okay and the answer is yes and the only way they can they you can't tell them that you got to show them you got to show them then they need to see what adults do which is then they get up and they'd be about healing and if this kind of stuff overwhelms you, call somebody. This isn't an excuse to go back and hit the pantry or go skip all your work. This is the time when you've got to double down on taking care of your body, taking care of yourself, taking care of your relationships.

Model that for our kids. Model that for the people that work for you. Model that for your spouse. And be gentle. What a mess, man. It's your call, brother. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Delaney show. This show is sponsored by better help. All right. October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in fight club era, because I mean, we pretty much have

the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families.

We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for

Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist.

Plus you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, next up, we're going to go out to the SLC in Salt Lake City. And this is a follow-up called Nessa. You wrote back.

You called back. How are you? I'm in finals and off of a graveyard shift, so I'm surviving. What are you in finals for? Recreation therapy. Wow. So is this, what stage of the program are you in?

This is my second to last semester, and then I have internship, and then I'm in it. Dude, Sister Nessa, you are so I, uh, this is my second to last semester and then I have internship and then I'm in it. Dude, sister Ness, you were so close, man. You're almost done. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Are you going to pass your finals? Oh yeah. I have like A's in all my classes, but it's just a lot of paper writing. So I'm not too worried about it. I'm just going to flex a little bit. I got, I got straight A's. Dude, way to go. That's awesome. All right, so. Thank you. Back in March, March 19th, we had a show that was all about COVID.

Because why not, right? Nobody else was talking about it, so we figured we would go ahead and do it. And you wrote in, here's your original email. Here's what you wrote. It said, our in-laws are taking our COVID precautions as a personal attack, and it's breaking down our relationship. When they

are not willing to take responsibility for their own actions and will not take time to understand what our perspective is and why we are taking precautions to protect our baby. How do we navigate the damaged relationship? So, you and your husband had boundaries. Your in-laws thought y'all were idiots. And then things went sideways.

And we chatted for a while. And then you wrote back in. So tell me what's going on, what happened, how's it going, all this stuff. Oh, my gosh. And I don't fully know how this call goes. And so you may be calling to be like, I did what you said, you idiot. And way to go. And now I don't have

a home or a family. Like, so I'm anxious to hear how this ends up. So tell me what happened. So back in March, I was obviously in a really low spot. I was in a career devil. It's not even a career. I was in a stepping stone job. It's not even a career. Yeah, it was a stepping stone job that really was taking it out of me. Relationships were breaking down and things got really, really bad. And it got to a certain point where like my in-laws weren't talking to me anymore. Everything

was through my husband. Even if I reached out to them to make plans, they would reply back to my husband only. Oh my gosh. They're four year olds. So hold on. So you, this is after you said, Hey, if y'all are going to come visit the baby, here's how it's going to go. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So basically over the, gosh, it probably was about six months of just awful relationship stuff. Kind of, I got really bad panic attacks. Let's just say that. Well, yeah, your family felt like it was coming apart. Well, Hey, take, take us back real quick. Take us back to the, did you have a final boundaries conversation? Did you send a letter? Like, what did you do? How did, how did you come to say, this is the a final boundaries conversation? Did you send a letter? Like, what did you do? How did, how did you come to say, this is the way this is going to be?

Cause this is my house and my kid. Sure. So where the heck was your husband in all of this? So he was, it's complicated because his relationship with his parents and even like all of his brother's relationship, the whole family dynamic, they don't talk. And so it was basically like, I know that you're hurting and I'm really sorry. Um, but if you talk to them about it, it's just going to stir the pot and make it way, way, way worse. We're, we're actually moving out of state in like a year. And so it was his way of trying to like, keep the peace before we take off. Let's just ride it out. Yeah.

Let's let this thing die slowly. Yeah, exactly. And it was just really tough on me because let me take you back a little bit further. So I grew up and like with childhood, I had trichotillomania. I had to go to therapy to be able to even talk about my emotions or express myself. And that is something that I carried with me my whole entire life of something I held in very high regard of I'm able to communicate.

And that's a big part of all my relationships. So I felt like I regressed a lot into internalizing and bodily, um, bottling things up. And I was on like, I was really pissed off and I was on a walk in the middle of the night, probably at like 2 AM, just trying to calm my nerves. And I was just like, you know what? Enough's enough. I don't have anything else to lose. They need to know how this is affecting me because I'm sick. I'm just, I'm straight up sick and I'm tired and I'm working nights now. I'm a psych tech, so that's a lot.

You work in the graveyard shift at a psych hospital? Oh, yeah. Get it, Nessa. And my favorite units are the high acuity, so it's a really good time. Let me ask you this. This is not why you're calling. You're calling to tell me what's going on. Yeah, you are. Hey, but let me ask you this. This is not why you're calling. You're calling to tell me, like, what's going on.

Right. Yeah. So. But hold on. Sorry, go ahead. We'll talk about that at the end. Is it okay if I, like, if I. Okay, we'll talk about this at the end.

I don't want to derail you here, but. Okay, either way is fine. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. And so I, at that next night shift, I, it was really quiet and I just decided, um, I listened to you guys a lot or you a lot.

And I was really thinking about the letter thing. I was like, do I write them a letter? I feel like they're not really going to understand my intention because they just take things like so far out of context. They're children. Yes. But I still wanted to like write stuff down just for like my own processing. Absolutely.

So I basically spent like the whole 12, eight hour shift drafting this like front and back 10 page essay about how everything was affecting me and how, I mean, I've been a part of their family for eight years. And so all of the shift over the past two, almost two years now was very devastating for me and not something that I, you know, wanted to continue on with. And so I held onto that and I didn't talk to my husband about it. And I just kind of sat on that for a while. And I finally went to my husband. I'm like, Hey, look, I know you don't want me to talk to your parents about this because it will

stir the pot, but I'm unwell. I can't do this anymore. And I, they need to know the worst that's going to happen is they continue to not talk to me and nothing really changes, but at least they know where I'm at. at. And so I called them up. What did he say to them? He just said, I trust you. Do what you need to do to be okay. And I'm like, and you don't have to be there. I can do this by myself, but I would like your support.

You don't even have to say anything, but just to have you in the room to like have my back type of thing. Hey, so I'm having like a visceral reaction to this. Is that okay? I didn't mean, I don't want to get in the middle of your marriage, but that sounds like he's choosing peacekeeping and them over,

like his wife is ill. They are suffocating his wife and he's not stepping in to go, not on my watch, you're not doing that. Yeah, it was a weird time. It was a weird time. It sounds like weird is a really, really kind way of saying it was an awful time.

Yeah, yeah. He just was afraid, you know? Like, they've never gotten that deep. And even him, I mean, I understand his perspective. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place of trying to maintain a relationship with his parents, with, you know. But they didn't want a relationship with y'all. Tell you what, it's less than a rock and a hard place. It sounds like.

Anyway, that's a whole other conversation. I don't want to stir it. I don't want you to get off the phone and be like, hey, husband, you suck. No. We've worked a lot on that in the last couple months. So, yeah. All right, keep going. Like, I don't know.

I wish he was on the phone because I'd be like, bro, unacceptable. It went on a little bit too long. We'll just say that. Eight years too long, but go ahead. So I called them, and it was a very awkward phone call. And I was just like, hello, I would like to invite you over. I have some things that I need to get off of my heart and I just need to talk with you guys face to face. Um, but at this point they're seeing my husband and my son basically every single week. So all of that drama has kind of subsided. Things

have kind of calmed down a little bit. Um, but I just like, wasn't okay. And so were they, were they, were they, were they respecting the boundaries you'd set up? Yeah. Yeah. We kind of got past, I mean, most of that happened because my brother-in-law's baby got COVID. And so then they were like, Oh, okay. So there's that, but besides the point, um, and so they said, okay, we'll come over at this time. I had them come over when my son went to bed. So there was no like distraction of baby stuff and things like that. And it was really kind of ironic because they ended up showing up super like an hour and a half late and they would only they were texting my husband about showing up late and i was like oh this is exactly what i'm

talking about um so they get there uh to my apartment and like we sit them i have them sit down and i pull out my papers and i have my tea and I'm profusely sweating and super shaky and nervous. And I just, dude, you're a gangster, Nessa. Thank you. Like people are like, no, dude, the house is on fire. I went in and grabbed the, you know, got the cat out. Right. No, dude, you stared down your in-laws and your cowardly husband just, I don't know, was he like, what was he brushing his teeth or something? What was he doing? Like, I'm just going to go. He was actually, he was actually sitting in between his parents. It was very interesting.

They kind of all just sat there and I was like, I have this beanbag and I just like put the beanbag in front of everybody. And I was like, all right, we're about to have a conversation. Would you like any water? This is screwed up in so many ways, but go ahead. And so I basically censored because my letters that I wrote was very angry. Yeah.

And, you know, profanity was used. So I skimmed through my notes. Maybe you didn't censor. Maybe you were wise. You filtered. Yeah. Not censored. You filtered. And it's good for all of us to do that. I'm filtering right now because I'm starting to get raged out on your husband. But go ahead. I'm filtering.

He sat between his parents while you talked? Well, he sat. Well, I mean, it's really not as bad as it sounds. Because it sounds super bad. All right. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Yeah. That's so weird. I basically spent like 30 minutes straight talking, and that's the first time that they have never interrupted me or like stopped listening to what I had to say. Did he tell them what was coming? Did he like tip them off? No.

Mm-mm. Nope. But I feel like I set the tone pretty well when I just like sat in front of them. And then I had like, you know, a whole novel in my hand. I'm sure they knew. You were hardcore. All right. So they didn't take it well.

Actually, they did. And I was extremely surprised. Okay. Like, so my mother-in-law she she speaks a lot just like kind of without thought and um and and so does my father-in-law they just say whatever's on their mind regardless of how it might you know reality or facts or data yeah there you go and and so then my father-in-law it was a long pause for a really long time and then my father-in-law, it was a long pause for a really long time. And then my father-in-law was like, all right, honey, before we say anything, let's really think about this.

Wow. Let's think about our responses. Look at that. They're finally in the presence of a mature adult, and they're like, ooh, I like the way this feels. Yeah, so they kind of spun some stuff back on me, I I called him out on it I'm like look this is not okay you know x y and z whatever all the stuff that was going on and talked about like the text message that my father-in-law sent which has like other stuff to do he kind of lied about that called him out on us.

So it was really just like, I'm like, I have nothing to lose. At this point, you just need to know the truth about how your behaviors and how this relationship is affecting me. NASA! Yes! Yes! Way to go. This is awesome. Yeah, it felt really,

really, really, really good. But it sounds like you weren't vindictive and you weren't a maniac and you weren't swearing and yelling and knocking. It sounds like you were an assassin. I was basically talking like this tone and this hint throughout the whole thing. Heaping burning coals.

Like you thought this through. You felt your emotions. You went and moved your body. You let them work through. You wrote it all down. And then you said, now it's time yeah oh my gosh yes dude your husband doesn't deserve you I don't even met you that guy geez and so then at that at a certain point um my husband he he did jump in and he started talking about his boundaries and how he felt um with the things that they were

saying to him about his parenting and him being like with the things that they were saying to him about his parenting and him being like a father and stuff like that. So after his wife went and hit the first guy and he fell down, he's like, yeah. And he ran and kicked the guy on the ground. Way to go. Yeah. So we finished that conversation and like that was the tightest squeeze I've ever had from my father-in-law.

And he like kissed me on the forehead and they're all like, thank you for talking with us and bringing us together. And to be honest, the relationship right now, it's still a little awkward. We're trying to like rebuild and figure out like what that looks like now, because it was just like, it's just like, it was just gone. And you called them into a higher, a higher way of being. And now they got to learn how to level up to you. They just got, they got, they got called out. They got held accountable to being an adult. Good for you, man. Yeah. That's going to be a

stumbling season for a while, but good for you. And is your husband walking around flexing now? I can just see him, like, wearing, like, a vest with no sleeves being like, yeah, what's up? This is my house now. You know what I mean? He kind of just hit his brothers. He's like, check out what, you know, Nessa did. They're like, what? What happened?

What conversation happened? Everybody's super shocked because they just don't have conversations like that. But, you know, at a certain point, somebody's got to do it, you know? And so I'm just like, I need to start taking care of myself. And that's when I switched jobs and I started focusing on, like, my career. And I was really absorbing everything from my school and, like, using, like, therapeutic communication. Like, trying to make sure. What?

Yes! Okay, but look at the progression You had some childhood trauma And you went to work Yeah And it was hard And then you began over time To redeem that childhood trauma

And most of us just We carry those bricks in our backpack We listen to those stories we were born into Those stories we were told And it becomes our destiny And you said I'm not going to carry this stuff forever. So you worked on it as a kid, probably just to breathe, just to function. Fair? And as you became an adult, some of those bricks start showing back up in your backpack because we just live how our parents

lived. And then you got married to a middle schooler. I don't want to talk bad about your husband, but come on. And so he hadn't quite broken up with mommy yet when y'all got married. And then y'all are together and together and together. And then you came to a point and said, I'm going to process these feelings. I'm going to look at these bricks.

I'm going to demand evidence from them. I'm going to set this crap down because I got to be about living my life. And here's what you did. You're so brave and you had a hard conversation face to face like an assassin. And then,

you know what you've done, you've changed the entire family structure. Now his brothers are going to live a bit, a little bit different. They're going to live differently. His parents are going to live differently. He's going to live, you changed the whole family system. Yeah. Yeah. It felt really good. Wow. It just really opened up like a lot of communication between everybody and i hear you know conversations between because you know my husband was fighting with his brother and fighting with his parents and i hear the conversations of like setting boundaries and you know they're over the phone and they're like actually you know we're not going to do this x y and z now and they're like okay

well we'll see you when we see you. Or it sounds good. Like, let us know what the plan is or whatever. Yeah, nobody wants a piece of Nessa anymore. Like, dude, I'm going to have Nessa call you. Dude. And then when you began redeeming these stories, man, you started walking on these bricks. And now you're like, and by the way, I don't have to work in this crappy job. I don't have to be a slave to my feelings.

I don't have to, I can go to, I can go to grad school. Dude, everything is changing. Yeah. You're so freaking brave, dude. I really appreciate it. Well, and a lot of that, you know, when I called back in March, I was like in crisis mode. I was trying to get counseling through school and they

kept like not responding. And I was just like, I need to talk to somebody. I'm losing my mind. And I think that, you know, you went so low as to call a dude on a radio, like on the pod, on a podcast. That's how desperate you were. But I appreciate it. And I really, a lot of the way that I navigate through things through learning like stuff through rec therapy. Um, and then also just watching your show, like a lot of stuff really aligns with this, but how important authenticity is and communication and just being vulnerable regardless of what other people are going to think because you need to be true to yourself.

For basically a year and a half, almost two years, I lost myself. I didn't know. I was just sick. I wasn't in my right mind. I needed to get back to that place. Man, you you're inspiring me. I know you're inspiring me.

And I know you inspired that knucklehead husband of yours. And you inspired a whole family. You inspired all people listening. Dude, thank you for your bravery and for your courage. And dude, these are the calls, right? They just go into the ether

and I never know what happens. And so I'm so grateful that you wrote back and you call back. And let's be super clear. You could have had that conversation and your in-laws looked at your husband and they said, until she's gone, we're out of here and got up and left. That could have happened. And I went in with absolutely zero expectations. I'm like, what's the worst that could happen?

This could have cost you everything. We're already at rock bottom. Yes, yes. And now what? Here's the worst that could happen? This could have cost you everything. We're already at rock bottom. Yes, yes. Like, and now what? Here we are, and now what? And you win for it. Nessa, thanks for being awesome. An absolute, dude,

I'm not going to fight you. I don't know if we're ever going to fight anyway, but I'm not messing with you. That's incredible. Absolutely. You're a gift. You're a gift to your kids, to your family, to all our listeners. Thank you so much for calling back. Thanks for being brave. Man, I could just sit here and talk to you all day. You're awesome.

Wow. Listen, if you're listening, you can. You can. I don't even know what it is, but you can. And usually one choice. I'm going for a walk at 2 a.m. I'm't even know what it is, but you can. And usually one choice. I'm going for a walk at 2 a.m. I'm going for a walk. I'm going to start writing this stuff down.

I'm going to write it down and I'm going to plan it all out. I'm going to vomit it up like she said. Swear words, anger, threats of arson, whatever it all is. I'm going to write it all down. I'm going to sleep on it. I'm going to distill what I wrote. I'm going to sleep on it. I'm going to distill what I wrote down, what I vomited up into some points. And then I'm going to look somebody in the eye and say,

this is the way this is going to be from this point forward. Because you're worth it. You only get one tiny, precious little life. You only get one. Be like Nessa. That's the new t-shirt, everybody. Be like Nessa. That's the new t-shirt, everybody. Be like Nessa. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life,

you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, I'm still buzzing from that last call. Ness is awesome. All right, let's go to Carmen in Seattle, Washington,

home of Alice in Chains. What's up, Carmen? Hi. How are you? I'm well. How about yourself? Well, too. Well, too?

Hey, is the grunge scene coming back? Are we going to do this again or no? Man, yes. My 14-year-old, no joke, was wearing a flannel, high-waisted, like, mom jeans.

They were the pipe jeans. Do you remember those? Yeah, dude. Pearl Jam jeans. Yes. Yeah. It would never go away. I don't know.

Not the suicide part. But the style part is fine. Like a true Seattleite, you took this thing real dark, real fast. So well done. Okay. Hold on. I'll never forget. I think it was like an interview with Vince Neil or something, the lead singer of Motley

Crew or one of those. And he said something along the lines of, everybody's life is terrible. That's why we sing about like parties and craziness. Because all of our lives are awful. So we sing about this and he's like, I don't understand why everyone in Seattle just wants to sing about how bad everything is. And I thought, yeah.

And then I talked to a Seattleite today and I was like, yeah, things are great, but that could get worse. Way to go. Way to go. Yeah, dude. Oh, that's so interesting. Okay, that's funny. All right, so what's up? How can I help?

Okay, so should we tell our teenage daughter that her dad lost his faith and is now an atheist? Ooh, okay, tell me about it. What's the journey been like? My husband is a gift to me. He's like every answered prayer from my youth. Okay. And I had a hard childhood. I'm a seven on the ACEs scale or whatever.

Hold on for just a second. Whoa. Right? Whose isn't? I don't know. Most. Seven is high. That's a hard, hard childhood. Not if you ask the parents. That's why, that's why in the ACEs scale or any sort of trauma scale, it's not. So what's your parents interpretation of that? That's not a question. Um, how'd you meet this guy? Stupid.

It's like, I'm telling you, it's ridiculous. This guy was, I was on the worship team at church as a kid. He was quite a bit older than I am. And he, oh, all like one day there was like this new worship leader. And I was like, okay, that's weird. Um, well, it turns out that this guy had just come back from a training for, it was like basically a two-year mission where he went to get his pastoral license. Okay. And super devoted, sort of obnoxiously so guy. But then we fell in love.

Oh, gross. All right. I know. Did he have, was he one of those worship leaders that has like tight acid wash sparkly jeans? Like with the bejeweled jeans? Please say yes. That would never, ever, ever. It would never, ever.

Hey, that's all I needed to know. Good. So you married well. All right, good. Yeah. All right, cool. good so you married well all right good all right cool so you you are like singing background vocals in like the church yeah and y'all are just like repeating the same line over and over and over again like worship music does and you look over and you're all love songs yeah and you see this

guy and you're like he's not wearing bejeweled pants. I think I'm in. Okay, so... You know what's so funny, actually? This is so funny. And we've been married for almost 16 years. 16 or 17 years. I'm not sure. Long time. And we're best friends. We have very good open communication with each other. We make fun of

each other every day. And also support each other. Anyway, so we have been married for like six months and I was pregnant and it was really, it was kind of a tumultuous, tumultuous, rocky, um, yeah. First start to the pregnancy. Then our daughter was 11 months old and we were driving to a birthday party on like a Saturday. And I said, you know, we were having some sort of, I don't know, mundane conversation. And I, and he said something that triggered me to ask him,

well, like Jesus Christ is Lord and savior and we're all sinners. And he was like, I actually don't think that. And I, my response to him, I'm an eight on the Enneagram. I don't know if you're into that. You got lots of numbers running your life.

Good. Continue. Yeah. So he said oh my response to him was well that's that's a lie you've said you've said differently for the last you know I've known you for five years

like that's not at that point right that doesn't sound accurate and that was kind of like the Pandora's box. Gotcha. So has it taken 16 years for that to slowly, or is he just? No.

So he told me that within the first year of marriage. Okay. Our daughter was 11 months old at the time. Now that 11 month old daughter is, you know, 14 and three quarters. Okay. And she's wonderful. But he, he feels quite a bit of cognitive dissonance about his honesty level with the kids. Like we're, we've always kind of been big into, we've never been into Santa. Like we don't, I just don't want to lie.

It's great to, you know, have a Santa on a Christmas bag or whatever. But no, actually, Grandma and Grandpa worked really hard, and that's where the gift came from. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Very Seattle of you. Very, very. And.

Why have joy and sparkles when we can have gray sadness and tears? I know. I'm just kidding. No. Hey, man, I wore shorts and tights with doc Martens back in the day too. We've all been there, right? I've had a flannel shirt around my waist as well. And I love Chris. So I actually thought that like Birkenstocks and wool socks together was like, like a universally accepted thing. It's, it's, it's, it's actually, it's in the DSM. It's a,

it's a psychological disorder, but that's, it's in the DSM. It's a, it's a psychological disorder, but that's a whole other conversation. All right. So in your home, you've got a wonderful guy. You'll love him. He's your best friend. Um, and he, he has, um, journeyed away from his, his faith or he's just on a different, different path for, but she's going to say that. And does he still, no, he's an atheist. Like he's an atheist.

Yeah. But does he still saddle up and go to church with y'all every week? Are you still in part of your faith community? How are you raising your kids? How's that all working together? Uh, well, I, I deal in contracts for a living. I didn't sign a contract.

Oh, God almighty. Holy smokes. who is, I always say like, they're like the real Christians. You're like, they fight in a healthy way, you know, and try to live by being kind to people. That all came out to the family. He was very, I would say heartbroken because he was like, honestly, I never wanted my parents to know they're in their 80s. You know, like, I don't want to cause any distress. His dad was the pastor

of that church, right? So you made him tell his parents? No. His sister manipulated him into it. Oh, geez. I know. So you may have heard me say this, and I got this from Dr.

Brené Brown. Shame eats secrets for breakfast breakfast is the way she says it. Yeah, I know. And the more secrets a family has, the more dysfunction there is, and the more pathologies there is, and then, like, you literally live less long. Like, your body

just eats itself, right? For sure. And I've actually seen that in real life. Like, I saw this woman, she was a client. I swear she died from bitterness. You know, her organs were shutting down. She's like 45. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Your body just says, I'm out. They call it long tail suicide. Like your body just begins to grind itself to a halt. It can't handle that much stress, those stress hormones. But I'll also say this. We also, and this is like towards answering your question we also when we have

these epiphanies these awakenings i do faith differently than my parents did yeah i grew up with parents who were very much go find it on your own very much so and we'll disagree and have conversations but i i grew up with that kind of support system, so I get that. But it looks very different. And that's basically been what we've done with our kids. But listen, sometimes when we have an epiphany about faith or about COVID or about relationships or about whatever, we feel burdened by it,

and we feel like we've got to announce it to everybody. You know who the worst people are? Crossfitters and diet people. Like I discovered this new gym. It's, and we just proselytize everybody about your dumb new gym or your weird diet. Congratulations. I'm glad this works for you. I'm not into Tupperware or essential oils or whatever the thing is. Yeah. And so we feel like we got to tell everybody and it's not about them. It's about us. Yes. And we have to be okay. And when somebody feels like I'm going to go tell my 80 year old parents.

Yeah. I'm going to break their heart so I can get this so I can live authentic. Shut up. Yeah. You know what I mean? Thank you. And this isn't even yours, Kristen. Although you're like getting after your sister So, you know what I mean

It's both and If my dad of 80 asks me Hey, how's your faith? I'd be like, hey man, it's been a 80 is very different than 14, you know So I have compassion for his Like struggle with this Because we, I, you know

It's starting to feel like we're being dishonest. Yeah, technically we never lied to you. It feels like we're being dishonest, but we're not. So just brass tacks, does he get up and put on his non-sparkly jeans every Sunday, and does he still lead worship

at a church? Does he go with y'all every week and sing along and play along? Does he do that with y'all every week and sing along and play along? Does he do that with y'all every week? So he has not led worship in... That actually... So all this came out on a Saturday. That next day, Sunday, was his last day of wing worship. So he hasn't led worship in 14 and a half years, something like that. So he's a man of integrity. He's a man of integrity. Like we joined Trail Life. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's a, it's a Christ centered scouting group for young men.

And then there's a woman's one and Jesus in the woods. Yeah. And he did not, it wasn't even a question on whether or not he was going to sign that statement of faith. Gotcha. You know? So they actually ended up writing,

they know us because they know him. He did a background check on him, all the things. They know us. But, you know, he's not willing, he's not going to sign something that says. He's not going to lie. Something about his character that's not true. There you go. Yeah.

Because signing that thing to prove he has character would mean he didn't have character. Exactly. Exactly. It's like, no. So, so. So here's the thing with my daughter. It seems like if we told her and we've gotten mixed counsel on this. So it seems to me that if we were to tell her and then there's a 12 year old coming up right behind her that did all these things, then they're going to, it would be like us putting like their, our brick in their

backpack. I don't feel that this is something we're not even completely. So here's the brick that you're putting in their backpack. The brick you're putting in their backpack is they absorb the cognitive dissonance. Yeah. They breathe it. And they think at some level it's them. So, okay, another little twist. He actually, my husband, my husband knows biblical, like he knows the Bible. He knows like a couple different, you know, da-da-da-da-da, like the Latin yada-yada. And so, you know, we'll be having a discussion and he's able to contribute.

And he's, he's performing and he's, but, and that's sort of how, yeah. And he's a last, right. And so he knew that was how he got attention, whatever. Here's the deal. I think a honest conversation with your 14 year old is fair in a non, non dumping his stuff onto her. Because here's where it sounds like. You tell me if I'm wrong. I'll go to task with anybody.

Has the church hurt a bajillion people? Yep. Oh, yeah. Do they continue to take care of people all across the world? Absolutely. Yeah. And so he sounds like a guy who has lost the sensational parts of the story,

the hard parts of the story, but has kept the practice, is still a person of character and dignity. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. Train a child in the way

they should go and they will not depart from it when they're older. And I'm like, it isn't safe if they're going to be saved. So listen, I think it is, he're going to be saved. So listen, I think it is,

he is going to be able to have this conversation without burning the whole thing to the ground. For sure. Uh, dang it. Dang it! You're on the wrong side.

Oh, are y'all competing? No, I'm always competing. Everything is a competition. Dude, I'm just a dude on the podcast. Take my,

this advice is free, right? Yeah. You're getting what you pay for here. But listen. Okay. Here's where, and I'm going to come after you in a second. Are you ready? Well, let me do this. So I think it's worth a conversation of truth.

Yeah. To say, hey, I believe in these principles. I believe in the, like here, I'm not going to put words in his mouth. Here's what I do believe. And here's where over the last 15 years, I've been on a path and here's where I am right now. Yeah. And I will tell you you I had long seasons of Of being a full-blown atheist I believe none of this nonsense Of my particular faith

None of it I thought it was insane Higher education's fault I'm just joking It's super not I know But Then I had a set of experiences

Being with people Who'd lost people in the middle Like dealing with some dark, dark trauma. And I got a different picture and a new picture. So what I would tell you is, who knows what two years from now looks like in five years and 10 years from now looks like, who knows? What I would tell you is I think being honest about the path with his daughter is important because then she goes, oh, and if he says this is hard and I love the comfort

of being honest about his path, hiding that journey from your daughter is she's just going to internalize it because she doesn't know that dad's on contract with mom but she knows. You know what I mean?

Dang it. I never thought of it that way. She does. Every morning from the way he huffs, the way he doesn't quite, you know, he sits quietly in the back. He doesn't pick up the book. He knows. No. I mean, she knows.

This fool plays worship music and family gatherings when we ask him to. Okay. When we ask him to. And there will come a moment when she's like, man, every time you get in the car, you put on Motley Crue. You know what I mean? She'll ask those questions. She'll know. Just like Kelly's kids ask those questions.

Right? I'm just kidding. So I've forced my husband to perform. Yes. And that dissonance is becoming expressed in your kid's DNA. All right? See how much he loves me? He's so great.

Okay. And so here's what's, here's what I don't think has happened. I don't think you've made peace yet. No. You. No, absolutely not. Carmen, you're hanging on to a fantasy. You're hanging on to a myth.

I'm not hanging on to a fantasy. Still, we agreed to before we got married. I don't know. Carmen, you're hanging on to a fantasy. You're hanging on to a myth. I'm not hanging on to a fantasy. We agreed to before we got married. I hear you. But you are trying to duct tape together a picture of a family that all goes to church together and all does the little whatever. I don't even know. It goes to trailblazer Jesus in the woods together. We all do all these things together. And you're trying so hard to keep this woods together. We all do all these things together. And you,

you, you trying so hard to keep this picture together. He's on contract. He's on contract. Right. You are so invested in this picture and it's not real. And you've got to exhale. I am married to,

and I love an extraordinary man who also fill in the blank. And I don't think you've made peace with that yet. That part of him. Right. And that's a part of him. Yeah. It's both and. And when you make peace with that and you show your daughter, yeah, this isn't the guy I married, but he changed.

And he's still a guy who shows up and he's still a person of character and I still love him and he still loves you. This is what fidelity looks like. This is what marriage looks like. You want to talk about giving her gifts? You can talk about her not picking up bricks. She knows what love looks like. You know what I mean? And right now, by not having that conversation, you're taking that opportunity from her.

So there's an incredible, I think it's by Poe Bronson. It's been a couple years since I read it. It's called Nurture Shock. One of the things I remember from that book that is years ago, and we'll link to it in the show notes. What I remember was it was a phenomenal book. I remember closing it going, whoa. But he says that a lot of parents, our generation of parents,

were told don't fight in front of the kids. If you have disagreements in front of the kids, you're going to freak them out, you're going to scare them, and you're going to think their world's coming apart. And so what parents did was they went in the back bedroom and fought. And then they came out a united front or whatever. Somebody won, somebody lost, whatever. Or a very ununited front that was a silent front. How about that? And what Bronson points out is we stole from our children a picture of how two people love each

other and disagree and then still make dinner together. Right. And now we have a world where if we have a disagreement, we think, oh, that's it. We're out of love. And then we break up and move on. Or we go post crap about each other. I mean, I think this has rippled through our culture politically, dietary, through everything. And so by saying, yeah, me and your dad, man,

it made me sad because I still believe in my faith with all of my heart. But we do believe in principles. And she'll ask natural questions like, what if dad decides he doesn't love me? And those are hard. I know, but those are hard things

that a 14-year-old asks. What if dad, what if he decides he doesn't love me. And those are hard. I know, but those are hard things that a 14-year-old asks. What if dad, what if he decides he doesn't love you? Then your daughter gets a ringside seat to love is a risk. And then he gets to look at her and I'd say, I will never leave you.

You know what I mean? And so these are hard. These are real and they are gritty. But I will always go to a foundation a foundational tenet of my life is, never lie to your kids. And right now, y'all are lying to your kids. I'm not lying. I'm just not telling the whole truth.

Yes, that's true. Right? And I say that I'm being direct with you, but you're my friend. I don't mean, we don't have time. Exactly. Show her that you and your husband are still connected and married and in love and you have different faiths.

One faith, no faith. Let her know that cognitive dissonance is y'all's, not hers. Right. And she may ask questions and say, yeah, this is where I land. It's ours and not hers. So instead of, okay, so is where I land. It's ours and not hers. So instead of, okay, so the way I've been thinking about it is like, we're putting our brick in her backpack.

No. But really it's, you know, taking that brick out of her backpack and saying, identifying it and saying, this is what it is. You know, you probably have felt things. Yeah. Do you have any questions? Yep. Or she might say, how could dad have played

the charade for so long she feels betrayed absolutely she should feel betrayed heck yeah you know what i mean and not in a no no no seriously she should feel betrayed and that's okay because you're saying like you can't fix the last 14 years you could just go forward now. Right. And I still think it's good for, um, I think the data plays out, go to church. They even have atheist church popping up. People get together and sing together and they show up once a week and they, it's almost like a how to do community. The practice is important. It's been going on for thousands of years. So I still think he goes to church with you. If he was on the phone, I was talking to him. I'd say, dude, I think you still go. I think you still, there's high, high value.

I think you still give. I think you still serve. I think you still participate. I really, really do. I feel strongly about that. What kept me alive as a person was in my seasons of doubt. I kept going, I kept going. And some of it was just to keep the peace in my home.

Some of it was I had a job where at like a faith-based organization. I had to, you know what I mean? But you just keep going and you keep going. Just like there's seasons when I don't want to work out and you just get up and do it anyway. And there's seasons when, man, one more drink would be awesome and you don't. Or a donut would be awesome and you don't.

Oh, you don't? I mean, sometimes donuts are so good yeah but but listen listen now you got me thinking about donuts and when that happens it's all you said it but i think you keep going with the practice because the practice is right the practice is good and i would really encourage you two to sit down because you you haven't come to terms with this yet for 14 years. I was a child. I was 18 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, how much frontal lobe development have you had at 21?

It's like, you know what I mean? Not a lot. Yeah, yeah. But here we are. So we can't go backwards. We can only go forwards. And I don't think it's going to be appropriate for her to tell her brothers. This is not a

You know Absolutely You know This is And we actually have a phrase In our families It's like This is family business

That means You don't talk about it With anybody but us Well Right Yes but you got to be careful About that because I know

It turns into a Yeah that gets gnarly Right Right it's like Keeping a secret That's true That's right And so I don't

want, yeah, be careful with that type of language, but you can't let them know this is dad talking privately. And I'm going to ask you to not, um, not tell people. Oh, that's a good phrase. But this is my story. And I want to share my story with you. And my story is not your story. And your mommy believes. Do I share my story with her too? Absolutely, yes. What? Absolutely, yes. Now, the details of all seven aces, probably not.

Right. But she's going to feel it. Because there's going to be moments when she's 14, 15, and 16 that your body remembers what you went through. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It remembers. And so. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It remembers. And so that gap you feel

that, uh, you're not that note or that guy's going to show up to the house and you're gonna be like, you get that guy at it. You know what I mean? Those kinds of things will happen. And she's going to think it's happened. I know. And she's going to think it's her. And I want her to know, she actually says, why don't you trust me? Like, what have I done to show you that you can't trust me? And I'm like, it's not about you. It's about other people. It's totally about me. And my husband says that.

I think it's time. I think it's time. I mean, you're all going to blow up your 14-year-old girl's little precious world. Oh, my goodness. She has a therapist. She goes to weekly. Well, here we go. Right?

But I think, I think a season of honesty and truth telling and storytelling is, is important and letting her know she's got her story. And I'll, I'll end this call with this. Um, I, I think I may have talked about this on this show. Um, I was at an event and doing a Q and a is about a thousand people out there. Somebody came up and said, I realize I've put a lot of bricks in my kid's backpack. How do I help them get it out? And I told him, you can't. When a brick goes into somebody's backpack, whether it's trauma, whether it's a story they were told, whether it was a story they were born into about faith or

religion or exercise or how we eat, whatever the story is about what you're worth, what men and women do, all this stuff. Once a brick goes in their backpack, that's their journey. That's their adventure. Once it's in, it doesn't come in. I mean, you're not getting it out. That's their job. That's their adventure. So the goal for a parent is to put as few bricks in a kid's backpack because the world's going to dump a bunch of them in there. A bunch. And kids are going to do stupid stuff. All adults, we're going to do dumb things.

We're going to not tell our kids a story for 14 years, and then we're going to have to do it. That's her adventure now. That's her adventure. She will come to see both of you as, man, that was hard. That was honest. And y'all were two kids figuring out life and i'm great fill in the blank and there will be some pain there that's part of being a parent part of

kids but once the brick goes in that's theirs and so how few bricks can we put in our kids backpack that ends up being the journey but carmen i'm grateful for the call man it's awesome to talk to a woman who's married to a great guy, loves her husband, has got great kids and is working hard to do, right? By her kids. And by the way,

you're redeeming your childhood. You went through hell and you are doing the redemptive work and you've got the scars to prove it. And your daughter's gonna have a different life because of the work you and your husband put in. And I'm grateful for you. That's awesome you that's awesome

that's awesome alright as we wrap up today's show what do you think James do we wanna do a classic or a guy letting his feelings be known with an acoustic guitar let's go classic I don't even know what record this is on

this is so classic but it's by the one and only Annie Lennox. Walking on broken glass. Goes like this. That's not, it wasn't the melody at all, really. Kind of whiffed it. Annie Lennox. Song's Walking on Broken Glass.

This is a callback to the other day when Kelly smashed my picture of my childhood friend in rage and anger and maybe a little bit of alcoholism. It goes like this. Walking on broken glass, you were the sweetest thing that I ever knew, but I don't care for sugary honey if I can't have you. Since you abandoned me, my whole life has crashed. Won't you pick up the pieces? Won't you pick the pieces up? Because it feels just like I'm walking on broken glass. Kelly. Walking on broken glass.

The sun's still shining in the big blue sky, but it don't mean nothing to me. Let the rain come down. Let the wind blow through me. I'm living in an empty room. Dude, this song got dark. Kelly. With all the windows smashed and I've got so little left to lose, it feels like I'm walking on broken glass.

Just like working on the Dr. John Deloney show. We'll see you all soon. Take care.