The Dr. John Delony Show - How Long Should I Fight for My Marriage?

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: A man wondering if he can save his marriage after he cheated A woman who doesn’t know who she is without her phone A mom wondering if she should pause the Baby Steps to help her daughter To pre-order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Lyrics of the Day: "A Symptom of Being Human" - Shinedown Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance to win $3,000!  https://bit.ly/TDJDSgvwy To order Hold On To Your Kids click here. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I am three years post affair in my marriage and two and a half years into reconciling it. I am wrestling with the question of when do you throw in the towel and just say it's too far gone. Progress isn't being made and we are just forever going to be stuck. What up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad that you're joining us on what may be the greatest mental health and parenting and dating and child raising show ever. May, maybe.

So glad that you're with us us this is a show about real people going through real challenges um in their life right now and my promise is i'll sit with you and we will figure out what the best the best next right step is so if you want to be on the show give me a buzz 1-844-693-3291 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. All right, guys. So, two big news. Big news number one is don't forget pre-sale. My brand new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life is now for pre-sale. We're giving away a billion, not a billion, a lot of cool pre-sale items and all that, which is all great and good. It makes such an important difference. If you pre-order the books, 20 bucks,

go to johndeloney.com. It makes a huge difference across every metric if you will pre-order it. You got people in your life, it's about the people in your life who are struggling with chronic stress and burnout, who are just anxious, anxious, anxious anxious anxious anxious If you've listened to this show for a while You know, I just have a different take on anxiety and really the mental health issues in this country that we're facing or globally really and this is just my Treaties, this is the book that i'm gonna put a stamp on and say we got to do things different What we're doing is not working. We got to do things different and this is not just a philosophy book and it's not a nerdy science book.

This is a clear path into building a non-anxious life and giving everybody in your house peace, man. And I'm just tired of watching people burn out. So go to johndeloney.com and check it out. Man, thank you so much. I'm just grateful. All right, here's the second thing. So here's what happened last night, Kelly, Ben. grateful. All right. Here's the second thing. So here's what happened last night kelly ben

Here's what happens. Here's the story so um There was a big rock concert in town last night the big punk rock show turnstile and others were playing And I was meeting two people here at the building and um, one of them was ge was George Campbell and another buddy here in town and we were going to drive to the show together. I was going to drive. So I live about 30 minutes out in the woods and we're going to meet at the Ramsey Solutions building, which is kind of a

halfway point for everybody. So I'm getting ready to leave, getting ready to leave. Can't find my keys. Can't find my keys. I call my wife who has taken my kids on a kayaking trip and I said, hey, I need the keys. And she's like, well, I kids on a kayaking trip. And I said, Hey, I need the keys. And she's like, well, there, I don't have them. And then she dug around in her purse and she goes, Oh gosh, I've got both keys. I was like, Oh, that's okay. Cool. I'll figure it out. So I hung up. We have an old farm truck out of our place. It's not great, but I was like, I'll drive the truck, look around, look around, go through everything, go through everything, go through everything. I call her and say, where are the truck keys?

She has both sets of truck keys in her purse too. We have three cars, two cars and a farm truck. She has all keys in her purse. So I hung up and I immediately called George Campbell who was headed towards the building. Now, if you have, in where we live in Nashville, if you build new construction, you have to include X number of electric vehicle charging stations. And so George was just going to bring his Tesla over here

and plug it in. Well, I caught him on the road and he came to, I said, hey, I need you to come get me. I know I was supposed to drive, but I can't. I need you to come get me. He goes, cool. He heads my way. And as he gets onto the highway,

he punches in my address and realizes he's going to end the trip three miles short from a charge He doesn't have enough battery, but it's too late. And so he's like surely there's like a five mile buffer or something there wasn't so Then the car runs out of battery on the side of the highway. I mean, right as we exit the highway. And it was a climate change denier, conservative photographer's fantasy photo

to see George Campbell steering a Prius while I pushed it down the side of the road. It was incredible. I was just, Tesla, sorry, Tesla. Yeah, worse than a Prius. I was pushing a Tesla. And I kept calling to the heavens, hoping that Elon would hear me. He didn't. For all you conspiracy theorists out there, Starlink's not listening because I just pushed the Tesla down the highway. And then our last resort was our buddy had a purple Kia Rio that I'm fairly certain he started with a rope.

And I don't know how three grown men fit in that car. But we drove downtown to the punk rock show. And it was incredible. That's all I have to say about that. I will never push a Tesla again as long as I live. And I was about to make the move. I think I was about to be an electric car guy. Did you push it all three miles?

No. Goodness, no. Those batteries. That car was so heavy. I've all three miles? No, goodness. No, those, those batteries are, the car is so heavy. I've pushed trucks that weren't that heavy. And I don't want to like throw shade, but George isn't like super ripped.

He wasn't contributing a lot. Sure. He was mostly steering and videoing me as I, as I pushed like a good millennial guy would. Anyway, we survived. I got home at 3 a.m. And here we are. Let's go out to little rock, Arkansas. Talk to Scott survived. I got home at 3 a.m. and here we are. Let's go out to

Little Rock, Arkansas and talk to Scott. Scott, bail me out, dude. Dr. John, it's a pleasure. Thanks for taking my call. You got it, brother. What's up, man? So I am three years post-affair in my marriage and two and a half years into reconciling it. I was the one who had the affair. I was the one who initiated the reconciliation. I ended it with the other person and told my wife that I was committed to us and committed to doing the work to reconcile the marriage and rebuild it into what it was supposed to be. And, uh, you know, we've had our ups and downs and at this point, two and a half years in, I am wrestling with the question of when do you throw in the towel and just say, it's, it's it's too far gone um progress isn't

being made and we are just forever going to be stuck number one thanks for laying it out that way and this isn't going to pay your rent but what you're experiencing is one of the most common conversations i have with folks post um post affair which is that sense of feeling of of loyalty and guilt and I remember why I love you and then one to two to three years in that sense of oh and now I remember why I stepped out or I remember how the environment was created, and I got on a track that I made some stupid decisions. When you say you're ready to throw in the towel,

what's not there that you think should be there, or you would like to be there? Well, I mean, what I need is I need deep emotional connection and vulnerability and intimacy with my wife what does that mean those are buzzwords that are like like stitch on a pillow words what does that mean give me some give me some actions well I need her to be able to tell me what what she is feeling I need her to be able to tell me how she's feeling and communicate to me when I am doing something that is making her feel less than making her feel unsafe. And I need to be able to do the same and feel like, um, feel like I'm not being punished and I need for her to come to me confidently.

And ultimately, this part is my responsibility, but I need to make sure that I foster an environment where she doesn't feel like I'm punishing her. Are you doing that? I think I am. I'm certainly doing my best. I mean, I will readily admit, if you can name the stupid things

that the wayward spouse has done post-affair to try to justify, rationalize, whatever. I mean, I've probably done it. It's just... And at the same time, I have been... Immediately, I started going to therapy. And I've had a regular appointment with a therapist trying to sort through my own dysfunction. I mean, no, I'm not perfect. There's a lot of, I mean, even just recently, I caught myself in the middle of an argument where she did express something to me. And I was a few minutes in and I thought, you know what, I'm actually, I've completely turned this around and I've made this about me. And I called myself out at that point and said, I don't want to do that to you.

And it's frustrating to me because I don't feel like I get anywhere with it. Even when I do call myself out, it's not what the response of, you know, see, this is, this is, this is how it is. This is how it's always been. And I'm just tired. I got that. But can two things be true at the same time? Yes, sir. Can it really have been how it's been all this time? And you're both exhausted at how you respond to things? A hundred percent. And that's a tricky, that's a tricky place to find yourself, right?

Cause that's, I mean, that's, that's the act of throwing in the towel. Like, yes, I keep, I keep falling back into old patterns. I keep falling back into old situations and your body keeps telling you you're not safe again and again and again. And dude, I'm just so tired of trying. I get that. Have you told her directly what you just told me? Yes, I have. What does she say to that? Um, well, I mean, she puts her guard because in her mind, she's, she says, you're taking the easy way out by leaving divorce as an option on the table. And it kind of just stops there. Well, have you put divorce on the table?

Yeah. I mean, I have. How is she supposed to anchor into that dude you know that's a good question I mean like so you like you blew this thing up knowing there's always two sides to a story and I'm not saying there was an environment

I'm sure there was participation both sides I'm not one of those guys okay but you stepped out. It happened. And then I'm assuming there was some significant fracture, and you came back and said, I'm back in. I want in. And she said, cool.

And then somewhere along the way in the last two and a half years, you put divorce back on the table. It's hard to anchor back into. And I keep having this sense, tell me if I'm crazy. put divorce back on the table. It's just hard to, it's hard to anchor back into. And here's the, like, I keep having this sense. Tell me if I'm crazy. It almost feels like you're throwing the towel in on Scott. Um, I mean, I, I, I want to listen to that a little bit more. I don't think that I am. I actually am pretty amazed at a lot of the personal progress that I've made in the past few years. Is she not making any? It's hard to say.

I mean, this is hard to say because what I did to her is not her fault. She didn't ask for it. And I cannot imagine being on the receiving end of what I did to her is not her fault. Okay. She didn't ask for it. And I cannot, cannot imagine being on the receiving end of what I did to her. Um, have you forgiven you, man? Yeah.

Yeah, I have. Okay. Did she forgive you? She says she has. Um, you don't think so? No, because it, it, Did she forgive you? She says she has. You don't think so? No, because it...

Just things from the past, even stuff that predates my affair, just it constantly comes up in arguments. And I'll say that's not cool. It's like once you're back on the, we're on this track, that's not cool to bring up two and five and seven and eight year old things. That's hard. I constantly find out that she still will tell people randomly about, about what I did. And I mean,

I understand that that's her story too. She's entitled to do that. Um, yeah, but there's some things. Yeah. There's some sanctity, sanctity things that um yeah but there's some things yeah there's some sanctity sanctity things that are private and there's some yeah there's there's telling your story but then there's also spreading somebody else's shame that's that's tough so tell me take me back take me back to

your affair dude like what was it about that that happened? Like, what did that give you? Honestly, it was an ego thing. It was me indulging my ego. Yeah, but your ego needed something. What was it? What did it get? It needed connection. It needed that intimacy.

There was just a relational hole. I needed to feel heard. I needed to feel I had influence. I needed to feel like my words mattered. And I just, I found it in all the wrong places temporarily. And when your wife has heard that, does she agree with you, or does she say, no, that's not true at all? I was listening to you.

Your words did matter in this house. she she she agrees to it and then i i usually get met with a you have to understand my personality just to lend myself to that that's that's the response that i get yeah and i don't buy that that's not true it's it's a it's a that's a choice right so i i get that frustration that you're experiencing that That's tough. Or there's something about the vulnerability when you say, I need this. And the person you love says, I can't do that. Yeah, that's a really tough spot to be in. I mean, just a good example. about 10 years ago, I had a pretty significant event happen that it was over professional and personal lines and it had to do with my family. It had to do with work.

I mean, it was not a personal failure on my part. And I remember just confiding in her, telling her kind of what happened. Part of it involved me feeling like I did not protect my family like I should have. And I remember just kind of being met with a blank look on that. And at that point, I just knew I said, you know, told me she is not, she's not going to be here for me when I need her. And I carried that with me. Was it real? It was very real. I still deal with it to this day. Have you talked to her about that moment?

Yeah, I have. What'd she say? She said that she didn't realize how badly it was hurting me at the time. And that, what, that, um, what's the right word? That acknowledgement is huge, but then the actions that come after speak volumes, right? And I'm assuming there's,

it's like, man, I'm so sorry I hurt you. And then the behavior of hurting you is just continued. Yeah. And I mean, it wasn't a conscious act of hurting me. It was,

it felt like indifference almost yeah and it's sounding more and more um I was really captivated by some research done by by Esther Perel one of the great relationship um minds of our time who said that most people step out for one reason and it can be distilled onto one word and it's alive i felt people say heard i've excited desired wanted but i finally felt alive again and if you feel like you're with somebody that is just indifferent to struggling or i know how tough it is as a grown man to overcome all your social conditioning, to shut your mouth and just plot ahead, to look at somebody that you care about and love and say, hey, I really think I botched this up and I'm so sorry. And they just look at you like, I don't really care. Like, that's brutal, man.

It's brutal. Yeah. I don't think that's a pass to go do what you did. And I don't think you would suggest that that was a pass. Not at all. Here's what I think. I mean, you're two and a half years in. I think there's a moment when you've heard me say this analogy, but I think y'all are here,

where you have to turn all the lights on, turn the music off and go somewhere for a half day and have a grownup conversation about, are we going to keep doing this or not? And I think in these moments, there has to be some crystal, crystal clarity on both sides. I need you to not bring up anything from the past.

If I say, and I'm going to tell you this, my wife has been this kind of clear with me and it has been a lifesaver for me. Admittedly, I was craving ways to connect, but she would say, if I say this, please don't respond with the following two or three things. Because she knew I was trying to love her the best I could, and those two or three things shut her down.

And so she was that clear with me. Or you all go sit down and have a grown-up conversation and say, are we going to continue this? And if we're not, we have to be grown-ups about how we separate this thing out. But I think you're at a place where you're done wishing that things are going to be different. You're tired of tripping as you're practicing living in a new way.

And then the whole past gets rolled back out on you. It just sounds like a big mess. It is. Has she been in couples counseling with you? We've done two intensives. We did couples counseling for a little bit and we're not presently seeing a couples therapist. I'm seeing an individual therapist

and she herself is not seeing anybody right now. Okay. What is your not telling me to do anything. He listens. The biggest thing that he has been teaching me is to avoid taking offense easily, because when I do, it takes the focus off of what somebody is coming at me with, and it puts it on myself. And so that's actually been a huge focus of the work that I've been trying to do. Sure. And is he right? If your wife gives you the wrong look, it sounds like you hold her to that look for years. I think I do.

Yeah. Or if she doesn't respond in exactly the right way, there's not a, you don't have like a grace period. It's just all or nothing. I wouldn't say that I have a fiery temper. I don't react. No, no, no, no. I don't think it's that. It's not all or nothing.

It is on or off. I never yell in my house, but there are moments when my wife says something the wrong way, I'm out. Bye. And I'm not leaving, but I have disassociated. And now she can see it on me. Right? I wear my emotions on my sleeve. Okay. So your wife can say the wrong thing and she can see it all over you.

Yeah, I think she can. Yeah. And she also has probably learned by this point there's no coming back. Yeah, I think she probably has. And I guess one of the things I want to just point out is that I want direct talk. I want to know when I'm doing something right, and I want to know when I'm doing something wrong. Absolutely. What does she say? She won't give you that? No, she won't.

I told her the other day that I feel like I've been put in a dark room and just been told to find my way to the door. That's a fair analogy. I like that. And the only way that I can find that I'm going the wrong way is when I stub my toe on the furniture. Very fair. Why won't she tell you what she needs?

I think it's because she says she she doesn't feel safe and there's credibility to that yeah at some point she's going to have to be an adult and say the safety is not going to come back in this marriage like i'm not going to ever feel safe again or give you some direction on here's the things i'm going to need you to do so that I feel safe. I applaud you, man, for coming back. And I applaud you for saying, for doing all the work you've done on yourself. I really do. And I applaud you for saying, I need these things. And that's the other side to being vulnerable is that somebody you love can say Sorry, man. I can't do that or i'm not gonna do that or

That's just the way I am And for everybody listening I don't buy that in a marriage context at all I don't buy that Hook line and sinker for anybody. Well, that's just me. I don't buy it It's easy. But I can tell from personal experience, there was some moments when here's how I just, here's how I interact with the world. And if I continue to interact with the world like this, my marriage will be over. And so I had to choose that over me, which is a whole act of getting married in the first place. But brother Scott, here's the deal. You've put in a ton of work, man.

Put in a ton of work. And when you said I'm back in and she said we're back in, y'all were back in. But it sounds like there's differing degrees on who's working on what and how, who's working on who and when and all that mess, man. And so at this point, I think it's a, we need to go out and we need to put it on the table. Do you want to stay married to me? If you want to stay married to me, here's what I need. And I really want to stay married to you. And please tell me what you need to feel safe. Tell me what you need to do these things. And if you can't tell me, then behavior is a language. Then you don't want this thing to work. You just want me to be the bad guy.

Or you are just hurt in a way that I'm never going to be able to overcome it. And so be it. I did step out on you. I did cheat on you. Whatever you want to say, I did cheat on you. And if we can't come back, we can't come back. But I need us to both be adults and call it. But I think that's where we are.

I think the intensives are cool when you have therapists that moderate that. I think y'all are past that at this point. I think you're at a, let's just go be adults and let's just promise not to shut down on each other. Let's promise to write down things that we need. Let's promise to have this really challenging, tough conversation to decide, are we going to give it 30 more days, 60 more days, 90 more days? Or are we going to just say, Hey, man, we gave it our all, and we could never come back from what I did earlier? I'm sorry you're there, man.

This is tough. It's tough, tough, tough, tough. My hope is, regardless of the baggage, the challenges, that any couple going through this situation can at least have enough dignity and respect for themselves and for the other person that they're married to to be honest and to sit straight across from each other eye to eye and say, what are we going to do now? Sorry, my brother. Let me know how that conversation goes, man, because I'm rooting for you guys.

We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work.

We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families.. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100%

online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to California and talk to the great and powerful Sharon. What's up, Sharon?

Oh, my God. I can't believe that I get to talk to the Dr. John Deloney right now. Sharon, don't believe. Believe. I'm believing it. I'm embracing this moment right now. Dude, my kids won't even talk. Man, this makes me feel good.

I may call you just randomly just so you can be that happy every time. Absolutely. Anytime. What's up? Keep my number close by. Well, Dr. John, I'm ready. And I'm sick. I can't even wait to see what you're about to say.

I'm sick and tired of how much time I spend on my cell phone. No, you're not. I know. You aren't. I want it. Okay. I feel like I want to be sick and tired of being on my cell phone. There you go. I love that. That's huge.

Why do you spend so much time on your phone? It feels like an escape. It feels like this sense of rest. I'll come home from a long day of work and I'll be like, okay, it's time to take a nap, but I will choose to go on my cell phone instead and scroll to get some sort of relief from it. Do you have kids? No. Are you married? Nope. So it's just you, the couch, and the phone? Yep. Do you have cats or dogs? My roommates have three scary old cats that I try to avoid.

Do they call themselves cat parents? Yes. Oh, you got to move out of that house. It's not safe psychologically for anybody. Can I just applaud you? Good for you. That's awesome. How old are you? I'm 27. 27. All right. So if you could snap your fingers, you get home from work, what would you love to have happening as you get home from work? I'd love for the things in my head that I've wanted to do to happen. Say them out loud.

Get them out of your head and say them out loud. The things I want to do. If you had a picture of what your life would be like when you were 27, what was it? I'd like to paint, to read, to adventure, to get my laundry done in a good amount of time, to rest and prepare meals and eat well. All the things you are saying are ways that you love Sharon. So why don't you love Sharon that much? I think I'm, I don't know.

I'm growing and loving Sharon. Awesome. Here's the deal. I wish this, I could give you some, I've got some ideas on what to do, okay? Okay. But I want you to begin to frame this as you're an addict. Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Yes, you are a stone cold addict. And that's okay because you know why? I am too. I did not have social media when I took this job. And now I even got a separate phone to have it on there. I told the place where I work, if you're going to make me have this like a tool, I need it on a separate phone.

And I find myself closing my door to my bedroom to be away from the chaos. And I just start scrolling. And so I am announcing that I'm an addict too, Sharon. My name is John and I can't control my phone usage either. So we're in this together. Cool? Okay. Sounds good.

So do you have to have this like social media and all that stuff for your work? No, I don't. Okay. If you want to stop, you have to stop. That means you got to delete all that crap off your phone. And I want to say I have deleted it. And what happens is I turn to like Etsy or I go on Venmo or I find some other way to scroll that even if it's not social media. Can you leave your computer, your laptop at work? And here's what I'm saying. At some point, you have to put some hurdles in front of yourself

and create some new habits. And it's kind of like if I'm telling somebody, hey, dude, the first thing you got to do before you dig into all your relationship issues and all that stuff, you got to quit drinking. You got to quit going to the bar. And they're like, yeah, but I'm just going to, like, you got to go to the bar. And for you, it's going to be not only just removing something,

but you're going to have to add things back in. Now, you started the call by saying, I am done with this. And then like, you're like, well, I mean, I want to be done with this. Do you actually want to sit home and paint? Or do you want, do you wish you were the kind of person that was like in a romantic comedy that came home and painted? No, I think I chose that as an alternative thing to do. What do you actually want to do? I want to, I don't know

there it is you don't know and I think you've got some ideas like I want to be an adventurer and a painter dude I've seen all those movies too Sharon but I don't think you want to be any of those things maybe you do yeah but my guess is if you really wanted to you would be doing those things yeah that's true

like I really really love playing my guitar and so I'm always having my kids come downstairs saying dad turn it down please you're not like you're not 15 again I'm like I know but I'm one day they're gonna call they're never gonna call but like but I I it interrupts other. I'm like, I know, but I'm one day they're going to call. They're never going to call. But like, but I, I, it, it interrupts other things I'm doing. Cause I like playing. What are those things for you? Or have you just created a life where you don't have other things? I guess it's a journey of figuring out what those things are. That's the most millennial thing you've said. I'm just on a journey. I've got Taylor Swift in my headphones. I'm just on a journey. Here's what I would love to challenge you. I would love to challenge you for 30 days to delete them off and to sign up for two different

classes, whether that's a jujitsu class, whether that's a cooking class, a dance class, something. That two days a week after work, you have to go somewhere. I think there's been some talk and some discussion. I haven't read the studies myself, but the conversations have been compelling that our current generation of human, especially 35 and younger, spends an inordinate amount of time at home. Everybody's just at home all the time. And when you're at home all the time, A, there's no real romantic connections. There's no real friendship connections that happen.

And the only thing you can do is scroll and play video games or watch Netflix. That's the only thing you can do because you're just at home. And so, yesterday I was playing Uno with my daughter and there's just only so many games you can play with Uno before I'm like, dude, I'm going to set these cards

all on fire in the front yard. Right? There's only so much of that. And so, I want to challenge you to be out of your house. But sign up for two classes for 30 days. And do two things that you're going to be out of your house, but sign up for two classes for 30 days and do two things that you're going to be kind of uncomfortable doing.

It's going to be a little bit weird. And what you're going to do is if you do one athletic thing and one artistic thing and one this thing and one that thing, you're going to find out, dude, I am not a jujitsu person. Or you might find out, I love, love, love, love this. Or I'm not a dance person or I'm not a whatever so if i say a class like that tell me something you'd be interested in imagining like a uh maybe like a ceramics or a watercolor i saw a ghost too but i'm in i'm in whatever it works my wife went and got

her master gardener certification. She just wanted to learn about gardening. So she just like went to the ag extension building in our community and started. All it's to say is this, you can't just take something away. You got to fill it with something else. Okay.

Okay. You also have to get radical about your commitment. Maybe call a house meeting and say, I'm committed to stopping scrolling. And every time y'all see me just sitting around scrolling on my phone I have to put x amount of dollars in the jar I have no apps on my phone anymore. So you have to text me. You can't just dm me Okay, and we're gonna have a group of people over to the house once a week

Or i'm gonna make dinner for house once a week, or I'm going to make dinner for everybody once a week. Whatever the thing is, but I want you to commit to signing up for two classes of two things and do this. Let me know how it goes. I would love to know what classes you're going and then what's happening on the back end. And that'll be your accountability. If you don't make it,

I'm going to announce to all of America, there's not that many people listening to the show, but I'm going to tell all of them that you didn't make it. You just preferred to scroll your life away. But I don't think that's going to announce to all of america. There's not that many people listening to the show But i'm gonna tell all of them that you didn't make it you just prefer to scroll your life away But I don't think that's going to be you. I think you'll got it. I think you got it. I Here's my commitment to you I'm going to commit for 30 days to leaving my This will be hard. I'm going to leave my

Work phone Either at work or in my vehicle. I will not take it in my house. I have to get off of it. I have to stop. It's like one of my core thing, teachings. And man, those guys who create those apps are good, man. They're good. They got me. So I know I've made commitments before and I've done them for a few weeks. I'm going to make 30 day commitment. Here we go. And so I want you to join me in this, Sharon. I've got so much crap going on that I can assure you I'll have plenty to do after work, but you got two things. And when you catch yourself, which you will, that's okay. I want you to think out loud. Sharon is worth more than a numbed out life. Sharon is worth more than a life

that we are just Netflixing away. Sharon is worth adventure, laughter, joy, athletic endeavors, whatever the things are. Sharon is worth a life well lived. Go make that happen. Get one of your roommates to go with you. A promisers adventures on the other side of this thing that are going to be more valuable, more peaceful, more healthy than,

oh my gosh, they're all coming to get us. Aliens are real. Bigfoot's not. Whatever. I don't know where they're scrolling. Let's put them away. Everybody listening. 30-day challenge.

Put your phones away. Put them away. We'll be right back. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good. Thorne is one of our longest standing partners on this show. And it's because I trust them. I use them. I read their research papers and I know their products are great and that my fans will love them too. Here's the deal with supplements. There's so, so much garbage out in the marketplace. And other than my admitted gummy candy problem, I'm pretty freakish about what I put in my body. And that's why I trust my

health and the health of my family with Thorne. Personally, I've been taking Thorne supplements for years and years, way before I was on the internets with these shows. And my wife and kids have been taking them as well. And here's what I take every single day. I take the super EPA fish oil, the methylated B vitamins, creatine, phosphatidylserine, and more. I take Thorne for specific physiologic needs for me to keep my body and mind optimized and for overall longevity and health. And here's the cool thing. We've set up an amazing opportunity for all of the listeners of the Dr. John Deloney Show. 25% off everything in the Thorne store and not just on your first visit, but every time you make a

purchase through our page and our account. This isn't a sale that's going to change from week to week. All you do is go online, create an account through my page, and you'll get 25% off from here on out forever. It's that easy. Go to thorn.com slash you slash Deloney. That's thorn, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter U slash Deloney for 25% off everything in the store. I trust Thorne, my family trusts Thorne, and you can trust Thorne too. All right, let's go out to Chattanooga, Tennessee, right down the road and talk to Maria. What's up, Maria? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

Of course. I'm an incredible singer, so thank you for letting me sing your name. What's up? You did great. And thank you for your show. Anytime somebody says, oh, you did great, that means you did terrible.

You did terrible. What's up? And your show has helped me On and off For the last one and a half years So Major thanks For having a program like this So I'm calling today

Because I'm struggling With balancing out I don't know The reasons for making a decision To pause Baby Step 2 So that we can help our 14-year-old who attempted suicide a year and a half ago find purpose, focus, and hope, whilst also not putting our family at risk of, you know, remaining in this debt situation.

So for people listening who don't understand her reference, you guys, Maria, your family, y'all are paying off, you're trying to get out of debt, trying to pay all your debts off, right? Yes, sir. And then you have a 14-year-old girl who is really struggling. Yes. Yes. She's doing well right now. We've come a long way. And

it was a quote unquote real suicide attempt. She ended up in ICU for three days and then for a massive overdose of Tylenol, which would have killed her if she hadn't been on the phone with a friend who said, you should call 911. And she then was admitted to this, I'll call it a stabilization facility that caused more damage than good. She was just a new 13-year-old and they put her in there for 10 days, and we had no control over it. And she was with kids up to 17 years old who had drugs and sexual and violent abuses and all this other thing. And so now what she's dealing with is just the trauma from that to help her move forward. But we have helped her.

She did get the best dialectic behavioral therapy treatment. It was a full inpatient treatment for about six to eight weeks. And she meets with a therapist weekly. What's her official diagnostic borderline? Oh, sorry. Oh, no, no. Major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety. And she also developed tics. And she's not ADHD, but she has a focus problem. And we're also thinking there's a little bit of this lovely, what is it called? Oppositional defiance.

Yeah. At some point, they just start throwing everything up against a wall. Right. what is it called? Oppositional defiance. Yeah. At some point, they just start throwing everything up against a wall. Right. I mean, it's just like, I want you guys to think, I want you guys to think

outside of the diagnosis, okay? Obviously, she's seeing a professional, so let the professional do the professional things. Oh, yeah. What she needs at home is a stable, warm, peaceful home.

Yep, yep. Okay. That is something that we, she does have, she's not just saying of the background. We are a very small, very close family. She's our only child. And we do have, her uncle lives with us. He is my brother.

He's a special needs adult. And he's fully functioning. And so that's the family unit. We don't have any other close relatives nearby. What was her story as to? As up to, because that didn't happen in a vacuum for someone that young. That's right. We haven't gotten a direct answer from her. The way that this whole thing started was that beginning of seventh grade, towards the end of seventh grade, I guess, beginning of eighth grade.

We got a call one day. Sorry, sorry. Her behavior started changing. She started not talking with the friends we would normally hear her laughing and giggling with, and this was during COVID. And she started wearing darker clothing, which were like, okay, you're a teenager. You're going to try to find your look, your vibe, whatever, your group. And she just seemed a little more moody and disconnected from us. And, you know, we would do our normal things, but we just chalked it up to hormones, right, wrong, or indifferent. And one day, you know, we had an argument about what she was wearing. She just looked floppy and slovenly. And it was just like, what is going on? Like, what is this kind of like,

you got this death vibe look going on, you know, just it's, I know you're emo are you goth like what is the deal and um we got into an argument about just how sloppy she was looking one day and so she went to school that day and then in the afternoon I got the call from the school counselor that said I have your daughter here and she's been cutting herself and um you need to take care of this. And we were just mortified because this is the kid who has access to everything, anything she wants to do. Not that we've overindulged her, but like, for example, horses, she loves horses. We don't own a horse. We've never been around horses. We have paid for her to have the best lessons as often as she needs, et cetera. And so it just completely pulled the rug out from under us.

We found a therapist, and the therapist evaluated her on that first day. And then when she brought us in and she said, you guys, my husband and I, she's like, you guys are helicopter parenting this child, and she needs some space. You're stifling her. And we said, okay, we're going to back off. Tell us what you want us to do. And she said, stop. Hold on, I want to stop right there. How did that feel when they told you that?

We were. Is that hard to hear? We didn't. I'm a parent. We disagreed with it because our daughter had been given a cell phone, and she knew the rules. And we had told her, for for your protection we are going to monitor randomly and i told her we don't have time we have jobs i don't want to look at your text

i don't care i don't look i don't want to look at my own text i don't want to look at it hold on hold on hold on i'm just gonna stop i'm gonna start right there even that conversation right there maria is too much for a 12 yearyear-old or a 13-year-old. They can't cognitively process that conversation you and I were just having. Well, we took off the therapist had said, take off the monitoring software. That was a terrible, terrible, terrible advice. And that's what we followed her because she accused us of being these super controlling parents. And we followed her damn advice.

Sorry. No, that's what it was. And a month later, she overdosed. Yes, that was dreadful advice. It was awful. But it's not in a vacuum. And even the way you've painted the conversation about she got put in and in impatient when she tried, like, really tried to take her life. Mm-hmm.

It's a madhouse in there. It's scary. Oh, it's awful. But hold on. But y'all aren't the victims of that. No. It's the best services that your community happened to have to take care of your baby girl and keep her alive. Is it perfect absolutely not i've been in there more times than i can count be sitting with people but to leave and go well they did all of this stuff to us and reframe this in a victim's light

or this this you got i'm gonna tell you right now, you got terrible advice. Here's what the advice should have been. No phones. A 13-year-old who is trying to figure out who she is and is spinning out of control needs her parents to stop all the chaos, not to take the brakes off. What your kid desperately, desperately, desperately needs is her mom and her dad. Not, hey, we've got all this we've got all this here you can you see what i'm saying there's a difference there and i'm not saying any of this is causal okay none of this caused this thing but i'm trying to give you as a path out especially in in concert with professionals um and, and the phone, go ahead, go ahead. See, so just to be clear with the timeline within three to four weeks after that,

with her seeing this therapist a few times a week, um, that's when she attempted suicide. And I called the therapist and she was just stunned. She was just like, so apologetic. She just, she said, I didn't see it coming. And, you know, my daughter was talking with her. So. So here's the unfortunate place we find ourselves. We'll link to it in the show notes. There's what I would call a

masterpiece book by Dr. Gabor Mate and another child psychiatrist. And it's something along the lines of Hold On To Your Kids, I think it's called. See if we can find that title, that book. But it's co-written with somebody else. Here's the premise of the book. You're going to hear from mental health professionals. You're going to hear from school officials. You're going to hear from everybody, every Yahoo News article or whatever, telling you that the most important people

in your kid's life when they become teens is their peers. And they need more unstructured, interactive time with their peers. That's completely nonsense nonsense that's not how their bodies are wired okay yes yep we agree and we've learned learned that only the in the most the most horrible way um and so we're in this state now where she's doing well. We have better communication.

I won't say that it's perfect. Well, no, I got a 13-year-old. It's never perfect. It's never perfect. Yeah. Right, right. And, you know, we do have a good sense of humor in our family. Like, you know, I will tell her if I mess up on something, I'll say, hey, man, cut me some slack.

I've never done this before with a child. You're my first. Is there a possibility that you or your husband or both could alter your work schedules to where y'all could each have a morning breakfast once a week with her just alone? Oh, we do. Oh, my gosh. Just shooting the crap? We've always done that. Yeah. We have game nights. We have movie nights. I started giving her more of my time. Like I will

randomly, when I pick her up from school, I will do the unthinkable. I will show up with her favorite Starbucks drink, which I normally, because I'm on baby step two, I'm not buying that. So, you know, and we end up having just nice chats. We'll go for like a walk around and, you know, she has grown closer to us, but there are still, she's so traumatized per her therapist from that experience that there are certain things she is just terrified to talk about, even with the therapist. So we need to get to that ASAP. Yeah, and she's working.

I've shared that with the therapist. Okay. And we're going to have a family session with her as well. Yes, good. And we do those periodically. Okay. And so. My concern on that kind of move is, and again, I am completely throwing spaghetti up against a wall here, okay?

Okay. But a kid who can't verbalize what's happening, sometimes that means it's still happening sometimes that means it is so close i don't have words for it sometimes and again um it can be anything from bullying at school that is so profound that just isn't fully understood it can be you have another adult male living in your house. It can be any number of things. Combination of things too, right? Anything.

But getting to that where your daughter feels safe enough to start beginning to start talking about some of this stuff. Let me go back to the beginning question here. Your child's mental health and mental wellbeing is more important than getting out of debt. Your child being alive is more important than that goal right now. I'm not suggesting you go borrow a bunch of money. I don't think you need to do that, But yes, your kid's health comes first. Does that mean you go buy a horse? No, that doesn't mean you go buy a horse. It does mean that your kid gets a job and begins to help out with horse lessons or dance lessons

or whatever things y'all going to do. That does mean that in this one phone call, if you go back and listen to it, the victim of this, the victim of this, and now we're a victim of a 13-year-old kid. At some point, I want you, Marie, to take ownership and your husband to take ownership of this house. We are going to be the most important people in the lives to our daughter. And we're not going to do that through force feeding. We're going to do that through connection. And man, there's all kinds of mess going on. And there is a spike in suicide. The last numbers I saw, it's been a minute since I looked at them, but there is a spike and there is a lost sea of middle school kids, like a lost generation of kids who the last

few years of their elementary school was in COVID lockdown. and it's a mess. I've got a middle schooler. I get it. I talk to middle school kids all the time. It's a mess. But I'm not going to attach all that mess to my kid. And if I got to pull my kid out of a school, I'm going to pull my kid out of a school, and I'm not going to give my kid a smartphone. I'm not going to give my kid out of a school, I'm going to pull my kid out of a school. And I'm not going to give my kid a smartphone. I'm not going to give my kid unfettered access to bullies 24-7, 365. And that hurts my child. I know that. It doesn't hurt them.

It makes them uncomfortable. It makes them a pariah. It makes them an outsider. I get that. But the data is too clear for me. And I'm not going to blame, and I'm not going to blame, and I'm not going to blame. I want you to start thinking about things that aren't going to be random that might be very, very structured because it sounds like what this baby girl could use a healthy dose of is some significant structure. On Mondays, we do this, and on Tuesdays, we do this, and on Wednesdays,

we do this, and it's going to be a practice, a practicing of structure. I think that might be good for the whole family. Obviously, 100% continue on with your counselor, with your therapist. And for every therapist listening, for God's sake, it is never the right move for a 12 or 13 or 14-year-old for you to tell their parents, actually, we need you to back off even more and let them have unfettered access. You are overbearing checking on their phones. That's insane. Absolutely insane. I'm not giving my kids access to the open internet and all the predators and all the nonsense and all. I just had a call a minute ago about how I can't control myself. How am I going to expect my child to? No, thank you.

No, thank you. Maria, continue to plug in your kid, man. Continue to plug in and don't break the bank. Buying things, obviously pay for rehab and things like that if she needs to go get professional help. But let's sit down, take a global look at your daughter's health, her mental health, all the things, all that we need to do there. And let's make sure the whole family's plugged in because, man, something's not right. Something's

not sitting right with me. And hopefully the therapist can dig that out. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, I never thought I would have

Shinedown on this show, but here we are. Kelly's third favorite band behind Tupac and Beyonce. Song's called The Symptom of Being Human. I can still remember me and Miss November Rain, beautiful and strange, always so inclined, coloring outside the lines. Yeah, you were never on time. Hey, me neither. You're always been slightly awkward. Yes, Kind of weird. Is this talking about me, Kelly? This is hurting my feelings. Upside down and not all here. Yes. What's wrong with me and you is crystal clear. Unpack all your baggage, hide it in the attic where you hope it disappears. This all seems so familiar, but it doesn't feel like home. It's just another unknown. Kelly, the Shinedown fan.

Love you guys. Stay in school. Bye.