The Dr. John Delony Show - How To Move Through Overwhelming Grief

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

On today’s show, we hear from: - A volunteer firefighter who responded to a fatal accident involving his own son (this one’s really tough). (1:00) - A woman struggling to get her teen to go to therapy. (31:17) - A mother whose family is being broken up by her sons’ girlfriends. (42:12) Lyrics of the Day: "Lullaby (Good Night My Angel)" - Billy Joel  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I lost my son about a month and a half ago. And they were on a side-by-side ATV, and they crashed. And I'm a volunteer firefighter, and I responded to the scene. Oh, God, no. Yo, yo, what's up? This is John, the Dr. John Deloney Show. Greatest mental health and wellness and marriage and parenting,

whatever podcast ever made. So glad that you joined us. Wow, so glad that you're with us. Give us your most precious resource, your time. If you want to be on this show, give us a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. 1-844-693-3291. We got a packed show,

so I'm just going to go straight to the phones today. Let's go to Chris in Fargo, North Dakota. What's up, brother Chris? Not much. How are you doing? I'm allgo, North Dakota. What's up, brother Chris? Not much. How are you doing? I'm all right, my man. How are we doing this morning? Sorry.

You're good, man. You're good. I got nothing but time, my man. Okay. What's up? Actually, do this for me. Take as deep a breath as you can and hold it. Now let it out. And those shoulders, your shoulders are up around your ear, drop them as low as you

can, okay? Okay. Cool. And one more thing. Take your hands and squeeze them together as tight as you can. And count backwards. Squeeze them as tight as you can. Five, four, three, two. All right, what's up, man? I lost my son about a month and a half ago. What was his name? I'm Jesse. How old were you? Twelve.

Oh, my gosh. And I'm a volunteer firefighter and I responded oh god no really dude I'm so sorry I'm sorry across the board I'm sorry a thousand different ways man I have a 12 year old little boy and I've I'm sorry across the board. I'm sorry a thousand different ways, man.

I have a 12-year-old little boy, and I've... My guts just left my body. As you said that, I'm sorry, man. So I'm guessing if you responded, then was it an emergency? Was it an accident? What happened? He was at the neighbor's house, and a friend of the neighbor was taking him to pick up his daughter.

And I wasn't there. My wife was there. And she didn't know he had been drinking that much. And they were on a side-by-side ATV. And they crashed. Oh, my gosh. Chris, I'm so sorry, man. Tell me about Jesse.

Tall kid, short kid, fast. Short kid. Pudgy kid. Tell me about him. Skinny. He was a skinny little guy. One of the smallest kids in his class. Yeah.

Funny kid, loud, annoying, silly. Tell me about him. It was funny to the point where he thought he was funnier than he actually was. I thought he was. Awesome. He got along with all the adults. Everybody loved him. Yeah.

He would talk about things that, like, sign stuff to the adults, and they'd just be blown away by him. Oh, he's brilliant, huh? Yes, very smart. Wow. What did he love? What did he love? He loved taking things apart. It drove me nuts.

What's the worst thing he ever took apart? We'd just buy him. We'd buy him something, and then within three days, he would take it apart. Oh, he was that kid. Yeah. Yes.

You get him like a VCR or something, he takes it, not VCR, because it's not the 20th century, but yeah, get him an Xbox instead of playing it, he takes it apart, see how it works. Wow. Yeah, exactly. So, you lost your son, you lost your son.

You lost your life as you know it. Everything's different now. Yeah. And my son lost a light in his life because the lights went out, didn't it? Like I'm saying, like as another kid who's 12, they were going to grow up and create the new world together. And a light went out, right?

Yep. So all the way across the country in Nashville, Tennessee, I want you to know my heart's broken with you. And that doesn't bring your kid back and that doesn't make you hurt less, but I want you to know you're not heartbroken alone.

I'm so sorry, man. And I'm sorry that you responded to that. I'm sorry that that shouldn't have happened. Procedurally, that shouldn't have happened. That's probably just the kind of guy you are, though, is you show up. When they tell you don't come, you show up.

I didn't know what was going on. Oh, wow. Okay. Didn't even know. I was home before the call and we carry a pager and when the call comes out, we just go to the station.

And I had an idea. It came out as a personal injury accident. Oh, it didn't come out as a 1087? No. We don't use 10 codes. Oh, it didn't come out as a 1087? No. We don't use 10 codes. Oh, you don't? Okay.

And so I just went to the station. I jumped on the front right seat. Went to the call. I had an idea where it was. And it didn't make sense. I'm like, that's a side road. That's how is there an accident

there and we turned down the street it was about three blocks away from my house and the driver said was that wasn't that your wife and i said i didn't see. And we get closer to the scene, and I started to recognize two of the people there. And that's when I started to panic a little bit because I knew what was going on. I knew he was over at the neighbor's house, and there was my neighbor and one of his friends. They heard the sirens. They ran up there. So when I pull up up i see those two i jump out and i just kind of forgot everything that i was supposed to do and one of the guys grabbed me and before i could get close

to the scene and just pulled me into the back of the truck and sat me down And then that's when the sheriff came over and told me what happened. Whoever that partner was of yours did a heroic thing, and I'm glad they did that. He's amazing. Yeah, that's an amazing man right there. Month and a half ago, man. So how can I help you, man? I want to hug you.

You're not here. I want to hug you. I'm trying to wipe in tears of my own away here on the show. And that doesn't happen for me. I've shown up to scenes. I know that call when your heart starts beating faster

because you think something's wrong and then all of a sudden you know something's wrong. I've had to be that guy that pulled the parent back and said, you don't need that in your head. And I've had,

man, all that whole thing. Oh, geez, man. Even though I wasn't at, I didn't see him. It doesn't matter. I know.

I know. I still get flashes of't matter. I know. I know. I still get flashes of what happened. I know. I know. I know. Can I tell you something that's going to sound crazy? Sure. He's not hurting right now.

So much of our head wants to go back to that moment. He's not hurting right now. He's at hurting right now. So much of our head wants to go back to that moment. He's not hurting right now. He's at peace right now. Okay? And if there's no other peace in your heart right now, he's not scared anymore. He's not hurting anymore. He's still.

That's a dollar. Okay. still. That's another thing. Okay. Sorry. That's another thing that he was... So I get the call. I go up to my truck and I go up to the

next street and I either take a right to go to the fire station or I go straight and I just respond to the fire station or I go straight. And I just respond to the scene. And I listen to my procedures and I took that right. I feel like I failed him twice because I,

as one, as a father, because I let him be with that guy. And I feel because I let him be with that guy and I feel like I failed him as a firefighter because I didn't go straight and just be with him until he passed away

yeah and if you've ever listened to heard a word come out of my mouth I'll tell you your feelings are real and they're very very important

and they serve a purpose and our feelings lie to us. The very first way you explained what happened, the words out of your mouth were, I wasn't there and I should have stopped you then, I didn't. There's no possible way

that you would think in your neighborhood that a friend of yours would let your kid get behind the wheel of an atv with a drunk driver any any any more likelihood that your it would be your fault if your kid got struck by lightning walking down the street. So I get the impulse to feel like I'm dad. I have one job and that's to keep my kids safe and I failed it. I get that impulse. I have that same exact impulse. But you're going to have to open your hands on that one because that's not on you. Okay. It's on the heart of a guy who was intoxicated and got behind the wheel of a vehicle

and invited a child along with him. The other thing is I get the impulse as a first responder. But that moment of failure, that's not for him. You feel like you failed yourself. Yeah. And you didn't. And I also know I can tell you that over and over and over, and your body's going to respond as your body's going to respond, okay?

It's going to take seasons for this to pass. Not to pass. The whole thing won't pass. You'll remember this for the rest of your life. It's now part of you. I'm saying you will come to peace with the fault part of this.

This is my fault. This is not my fault. Okay? You're a damn good firefighter. You signed up. You volunteered for Crying Out Loud. You don't even get paid for this. You do this because this is who you are.

Your community is better because you do this. And the fantasy that if I had just gone straight, I would have had one more second. I get that. I get that. And it's not true. Because that fantasy turns into and I probably would have done the one thing that

fill in the blank, right? So how can I help you now? My guess is you're in the black hole, man. The food tastes different when you even bother to eat. Love feels everything's off. Yeah. It's slowly. Yeah. It's slowly getting better. I'm back to my full-time job now.

But you're just going through the motions, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's completely 100% right. Okay. I'm king of distractions now. Whatever I can find to distract myself.

That's fine. Pardon me. I don't know. I don't know what to expect. I don't know. I don't know what to expect. I don't know. I hate feeling this way, but I also don't want to give it up. I know. Because now your son's no longer in your arms and he's transferred to your pain.

And you think if you stop hurting or if you smile a little bit or if you have have some joy, that he's going to go. Or that somehow sharing a meal with your wife and y'all just exhaling for the first time in a month and a half is somehow dishonoring to him, and it's not. Life won't go on. Life is different now. Things won't get back to the way they were.

Things are different now. There will be a creation of a new, and it will take a while. And so anybody telling you to rush this process, you need to cut them out of your life. Okay. Okay? Yeah.

You lost your heartbeat. Right? Yep. One of them, I have another son. Sir? I lost one of my heartbeats. I have another son. There you go.

I keep seeing it. And you're going to walk past that bedroom and it's going to be empty and your whole body's going to fall apart and you're going to pull up to a pizza place and you're going to say table for four it's just going to pop out of your mouth and then you're going to break down crying in a way that you thought you'd cried all the tears you got and nope i got more all right or someone's going to be trying to be kind and they're going to say something that in your situation is insensitive, even though they're being lovely. How many kids you got? And your first impulse is going to be two. And you're going to say one.

You're going to say, well, I mean, and then the whole thing. Yeah. Right. Happened yesterday. Yeah. My other son. I just I don't I don't know

even know what to expect anymore or emotionally okay here's what I'm gonna do you're not gonna remember a lot of this I'm gonna

give you four or five things okay and we will cut this out and we'll send it to you before it's even edited and all that kind of, you know,

glossed over and mastered or whatever they do to it to make it pretty. Just so you have these things now, you don't have to wait another month for it to come out, okay? Okay. Here's thing number one. You cannot do this by yourself.

I don't care how tough you are. I don't care how, you know, Fargo you are. I don't care how tough you are. I don't care how Fargo you are. I don't care how fireman you are. You got to have other people. You got to have other people that you say, I'm not doing okay today. Today's a black hole day. And they're not going to try to fix you.

They're going to hug you. They're going to go get coffee. They're going to show up with a donut or they're going to show up with some dinner. And they're not going to say much. They're just going to sit on your porch with you. Do're going to go get coffee. They're going to show up with a donut or they're going to show up with some dinner. They're not going to say much. They're just going to sit on your porch with you. Do you have that? Yes, I have. Your only job

is to not isolate. Let them do the rest. You might tell them, here's what I need. If I call you, you five guys, if I call you, here's what I need. If I call you, you five guys, if I call you, here's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for you just to say that sucks,

I'm heartbroken. I'm looking for you to send me a picture of my son that you might have on your phone. I'm looking for you just to come over and with some tacos. Okay? Mm-hmm. That's number one. Number two, grief is like a fingerprint.

It's different for every single person. And yours is going to be different than your wife's. And this is why many, many couples who experience what you've experienced don't make it. Because they start holding each other to impossible standards. And they're so mad and so angry and so frustrated and so heartbroken that they just lash out at the closest person to them that happens to be their wife or their husband. Or they say things like, I can't believe you're already back at work. How can you even breathe? I can't believe you went to the gym. I can't even get out of bed. And so I want you and your wife to commit to having regular, probably probably every other day check-ins with

one another and a whole lot of grace because you're gonna have good days and bad days on different days and one of you is going to have a bad day and the other person is going to be having a good day and the person who's having a bad day has to have the courage and the bravery to say, go have your good day. Because bringing somebody from their good day down to your bad day doesn't make your bad day better. Okay? But you and your wife are going to have to create a new language that you did not have before. Okay? Yep. And you're going to have to decide, we need to learn Spanish because we got to learn a different language that you did not have before. Okay? Yep.

And you're going to have to decide, we need to learn Spanish because we got to learn a different way to talk because we can't talk English anymore in this house. That's where you got to look at it. Okay?

Okay. You have to remember to do the basic life things like eat and move and turn your screens off. Okay? Yeah.

And you're going to have to learn. This is the hard one. You're going to have to sleep. And if you've ever listened to this show, you know how against sleep meds I am. I'm okay in a season. Okay? Yeah, I'm trying to get off the

doctor prescribed me something that I'm trying to get off of. Okay. I'm just going to melatonin right now. Okay. I have never talked about this publicly, but we're in it now. I will send you personally,

I've got a substantial discount code with the only supplement company that I use. They're called Thorne and they are pharmaceutical grade. They're the best of the best of the best. And I've got a significant discount code that I'll send you and I'll send you the personal sleep stuff that I use from them. Okay. They're just a supplement. It's not a, it's not a narcotic or anything like that. It's what I use. And everybody's got a little bit of a tinkering difference, whether it's farm gab at 250 or whether it's ISO or whatever the thing is, right?

But getting some supplement help for sleep is wise right now. Okay? Having some sort of, I'm going for a walk, having some sort of, I'm going to go exercise, having some sort of something.

And you may go to the gym and then just turn around and go home because it's not happening that day. That's okay. All right? Here's the other one. Do not overcompensate with your child, with your other son. Okay.

Okay? Your other son's going to have his own unique grief. The last thing we want to do is have him feel like he's responsible for making sure mom and dad's okay. Yeah. He gets to be a little boy. Yeah.

Right? And he's also going to say things like, I feel like all you talk about is Jesse. That's fine. How old is he? He's 15. Exactly.

He's 15. Right? There's a reason we don't let him drive yet. So he's going to have his comments and that's all fine and good. His life, everything about his life is different now. Okay. Here's the last one. And this one's hard. This one's real hard. How long have you been doing volunteer fire department stuff?

About 15 years, though. Okay. So I'm talking to somebody who's responded and seen their fair share of stuff, right? I've been pretty fortunate, but yeah. Okay. I've been doing a couple calls. Been doing a couple calls.

Yeah. I have too. And here's what I can't do. Like when I, I call it the lightning bolt. When the lightning bolt pops into my head out of nowhere of some guy who shot and killed himself and this is disaster or some car wreck scene that I showed up to,

some sort of something, the lightning bolt pops into my head and the moment that lightning bolt pops into my head with that picture or that thought, I have a choice. Am I gonna meditate on that picture and go down that rabbit hole and my heart rate will get up and my body will flood itself with cortisol and adrenaline just like I was back on that scene in real time.

And I'll start thinking about it and I'll think about what I said and what I could have said and what I should have said. And I can't believe I did this. And then that one guy that took a swing at me because I was telling him that his wife had, like all those things. I can do that. And when I do that, I'm choosing two things, to be more miserable and to dishonor the person who passed away. Here's the other thing I can do. When that lightning bolt pops into my head, which I cannot control, it just does.

I don't understand it. It happens in the shower. It happens at church. It happens all kinds of random places that you'll just think of a thing. I can hold my breath for two to four seconds. I can exhale. And I can intentionally put another picture in my head. In your case,

one of walking into a room and seeing the brand new Xbox you just bought, Jesse, all taken apart. Or the time he made y'all laugh at dinner and you were laughing so hard you were crying. Or a moment like, I'm gonna start crying. Like a moment I had a night ago when my 12 year old walked through the room and said something and walked into the other room. And I thought to myself,

I didn't know I could love like that. You get to replace that scene. You get to replace that little picture you have in your head of just his shoe, of all the people crowding around, all of the lights. You get to replace those pictures, him in the casket. You get to replace all those pictures with something beautiful, with something of a memory of joy. And here's what will happen. Those flashes, those lightning bolts,

that's your brain trying to remind you that there's scary crap out there. You don't need that reminder. It's just your brain trying to take care of you, okay? Okay. What we're going to do over time is we're going to shift our default settings so that when we think Jesse, we smile first.

We don't instantly get transported back to the worst possible moment of our entire lives it's a but listen it's a practice you're gonna practice and you're gonna find yourself 15 minutes into a thought exercise and you're gonna have to call yourself out on it i will yell in my home no stop i will do all sorts of wild things to stop those tracks as they get going and i've never lived what you've lived through the pull will be magnetic and here's one more final thing. Your son is not in your pain. Okay? He's in your heart. He's in your hearts.

He's in those kids in the class that he was friends with. He was in the bodies and minds and spirits of those he made laugh like crazy. He's there, man. He's not in your home where he should be. And he's not in your home where he should be and he's not in his bed where he should be but he's not hurting anymore either do you believe me? yeah

okay anytime you ask yourself what should I do now just be right where you're at okay there's not a playbook moving forward man other than take care of yourself just be right where you're at. There's not a playbook moving forward, man, other than take care of yourself. Be with people.

Love your wife. Love your other son. Okay? All right. Thank you. There will come a season when you make meaning of this. Okay? There will come a season when you're now what? I'm going to start speaking to high school kids about drunk driving.

I'm going to start a ministry at my church showing up when people lose a young one. I'm going to, right? That season will come. That season's not today. Okay. That's not, I got to go do a thing. No, you don't. Your body's bleeding from the inside out

and you got to take a season to heal. Going through the motions is right. Your family's still got to eat, right? You still got to go to work. You got to go through the motions. You got to be busy. Distraction's fine. All those things are fine.

And so you start distracting with a recliner and 24-7 Netflix and alcohol. And then distractions become unsafe. But right now, dude, you are in survival mode and that's fine. And anybody who tells you otherwise, they probably lose their voice in your life for a while. Is that cool?

Yeah. Now listen to me carefully before I let you go. You're a great dad. You're a great dad. You're a great neighbor. And you're a great firefighter. And you lost your son, and I'm sorry. Thank you. I love you, Chris.

And anything we can do to help you along the way, let me know. Okay. And when the show's over, before I head out of here, I'll send you the link to the stuff. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. All right, my brother. Thank you for being brave and for sharing your story with us. And just know there's millions of us that are heartbroken with you. All right. Thank you so much, my man. Thank heartbroken with you. All right. Thank you so much, my man. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I don't have anything to say after that.

We'll be right back. Well, all right, we are back. It took me a minute. I was too close to home. That was tough, man. I'd Be thinking about him and his family. I did, I don't think we're quite ready for it here, but I did spill the beans. I've signed a, finally talked publicly.

Probably one of the most common questions I get is what supplements I take and why and all that kind of stuff. And for years and years and years, I've only used one company that I trust when it comes to supplements and that's Thorne, T-H-O-R-N-E. They're the best of the best of the best. And, um, I've avoided talking about them just because there's, I have, there's differences

between what I think is really important, part of my daily routine, and then things that I like to self-experiment with. I just like to figure stuff out and see what it does to my body. And then things that I feel so strongly about, I even give them to my kids and things. Anyway, so I just kind of stay away from the conversation. But I realized the number of people are going to like Walgreens and buying things for $9 and they're throwing their money away and because the product's garbage and they also more importantly, aren't getting the help they need. And so Thorne reached out and we had some great conversations. And so I'll just be super upfront.

The way these partnerships work a lot of times is we get a piece, I get a piece of what is sold. But I have the opportunity to increase the discount rate so that my pieces get smaller and smaller the bigger your discount gets as a listener. And right now it's more important for me that people begin to get the help they need. Real supplements are expensive.

They just are. They just are. Everybody, we just got to shake it off and say, if I'm not eating fish three to five days a week, I need to have fish oil, right? This is what it is. If I struggle with sleep and I don't want to get on narcotics,

which I don't recommend, very many people do just occasionally, then there's some supplements that can really help and that have been a lifeline to me. So there's several things along those lines where my doctor has looked at my blood work and said, hey, you're going to really benefit from these three or four things. Great. help and that have been a lifeline to me. So there's several things along those lines where my doctor has looked at my blood work and said, hey, you're going to really benefit from these three or four things. Great, cool. But they are expensive. And so I want you all to know that

we've upped the discount more so than you're going to hear from most people in their space because I'm more interested in, I'm less interested in making money off the deal as more interested in getting good products in the hands of people who need them. They're going to help themselves and their families. So I should have had a,

we had a bigger idea for a product launch that wasn't planned to tell that guy, but I've been there. I've never lost my 12-year-old son, but I've been struggling

and I can't sleep and it becomes a nightmare. So we'll probably do a big fancier launch when it comes to Thorne. I'm just glad there's a company I trust that puts out world-class stuff. And behind closed doors, they're great people too. So there we go on that. All right, let's go out to Diane in Charlotte. Hey, Diane, what's happening?

Not a whole lot, John. I am really honored to get to speak to you today. You too. It's an honor for me to talk to you. Thank you so much for calling and trusting me. So what's up? There's been some issues within my marriage. I had a son as I came into this marriage. He was young at the time, under the age of five. And I married my husband. Things were good, of course, in the beginning. I don't really know where it came in, but there was some trauma that started. I felt like some emotional abuse towards me and my son, but mainly my son. And so we've suffered through for about 10 years now.

I love my husband. I'm walking beside him. We're separated, but I'm still walking beside him as he starts counseling and we try to move forward. The problem though is my son. He just seems to wallow in that resentment in how he's been done for the last few years. And I'm trying to get him into counseling. And I just wanted your thoughts on, uh, helping push him that way. Cause obviously right now, I mean, he's, he's 15 and he's, you know, I'm not doing that. Yeah. I mean, I don't, yeah, I totally get that. I don't blame him. Um, does he have a relationship with his birth dad? He does.

He does. It's not, I mean, it's good. The birth dad, you know, he's an ex for a reason. I didn't feel like, I tried to surround my son with good, healthy men relationships. Because I didn't think or I didn't feel like his dad was going to be the father that I wanted for him anyway. But also, I'm going to be mean. Is that okay? That's okay.

Okay. You surrounded him with healthy men, but you also kept him in an emotionally abusive step-parent situation for a decade. Yes, sir. So you get there's a mixed signal there, right? I do. I do. There's no manual. No, there's a mixed signal there, right? I do. I do. There's no manual. No, there's not. There's not.

So we're here now. But stepping back, we have to paint a picture of what this 15-year-old boy has been through. You say he's full of resentment. Is he resentful at you for leaving? Is he resentful for it taking so long? Is he resentful for this old man being so psychologically abusive to him? What's he resentful about? I think he's resentful for it taking so long for me to make that step. There was another child brought in to the situation. We had a child together. What took so long? What did take so long? Just understanding what my position needed to be.

I mean, I had a child that I was raising with him now, meaning my husband. And I just, I don't know. It was hard. I had mixed signals coming from family. His family would say they could see, you know, the differences he showed and the way he did, but yet they couldn't step up and say something because he's a man and, you know, he's leading his household, I guess. I just called bull crap on that. They didn't say anything because they're cowards.

That's the truth. None of this leading my household nonsense. That's just garbage. That's just excuse for generations. People let men just run over their families and their kids and their wives because of that kind of nonsense. That's just, that's cowardice. It's just pure cowardice. So let me give you a picture of what's in this 15-year-old kid's head. And I only know because I've met with a bajillion of them over the years. Okay? Okay.

Dad left him. His birth dad left him. Whether these are facts or not, this is what's in this 15-year-old kid's head. Mm-hmm. Then another man came into his life. Who mom said she loved. And that guy did everything he could to isolate him and put him out on the side and treat him like garbage for a decade. And so in many ways, that, that, that, that another man left him too. But I want you to, I'm saying this to not shame

you. I want you to try to get inside the head of the 15 year old because it's going to play an important role in How we can walk out of this thing, okay? Okay That 15 year old has been putting puzzle pieces together for a long time whether it's true or not and the puzzle That has your 15 year old has put together is Mom loved that abusive stepdad more than me yeah she cared more about that and their new kid they had together than my safety and my well-being and now she wants to me to get better because i'm not okay

nah i'm not buying that see what i'm saying yeah that's what's in his mind right now and more importantly that's what's in his mind that's what's in his mind right now. And more importantly, that's what's in his mind, that's what's in his body, pulsing through his veins, through his blood. And by the way, you're still sticking with this guy. And I'm not saying that's wrong, and I'm not saying loneliness is evil and economics issues. I get it, man.

I get it, I get it's hard. I'm just trying to relay this picture through the eyes of a 15-year-old just who's trying to navigate his world and find out where do I fall and who is actually on my team. Does that make sense? It does. And then he gets a chore. Then he's looked at as you're the problem, 15-year-old.

You're acting out. You're not paying attention in school. You need to go get these things. And he's like, dude, I'm just a kid. This world happened to me, right? Yeah. Here's the path forward. Well, I just threw a lot at you,

and maybe no one's put it that bluntly for you before. Tell me what you're feeling and what you're thinking. You can tell me I'm full of crap. That's not going to hurt my feeling. No, I've been listening to you for quite a few years or ever how long, and I felt like that's the things that you would say. You didn't even have to call.

I put myself with BetterHelp last year to try to navigate this separation and got us into counseling last year. We've quit the marriage counseling. I actually quit BetterHelp and went with the counselor that we started with. And then he's picked up, my husband, that is, picked up his own counselor. Okay.

And we're trying to navigate, you know, trying to figure out, you know, how we move forward. Here's how you, here's, there cannot be any moving forward until that man. Yes. Comes to your 15-year-old son and takes a literal knee and says, I failed you. We could get into the psychological abuse. That sounds like a whole other phone call. But the way I talked to you, the way I isolated you,

the way I drank too much around you, the way I talked to your mother, as a man that your mom brought into your life to model what masculinity looks like and what love looks like and what fatherhood looks like, I freaking failed you. And I'm sorry. And then you join him

and say, I let this go on too long and I'm your mom. And if one person on the planet had to have your best interest at heart, it was me. Yes. And I'm sorry.

And everything's going to be different from this point forward. Absent that, you can do all the work you want. It's not going to compute in the mind of a 15-year-old boy that feels like every single person in his life who was supposed to care about him

bailed on him. And any sort of growth and adjustment and therapy and all that, you can talk about it all day long. Your ex or whoever you're married to, whatever your relationship status

is with this guy, you can talk about it all day long. That's fine. It's not going to compute. It's about long. That's fine. It's not going to compute. It's about action. It's about what are you doing that's different? This young man has had every adult in his life let him down. He needs somebody to step up and say, I love you and I'm sorry. And this is what this is going to look like moving forward. And he's going to get some years to heal. And by the way, the greatest gift you can And he's gonna get some years to heal.

And by the way, the greatest gift you can give him after an apology is that you heal and that your ex or separated husband, whoever, heals. And to get him to quote unquote go to counseling, you can't force, I mean, you can, he's gonna sit there and have a stare off like Good Will Hunting. You could, after you and your ex or whatever your husband's name is y'all apologize you could say we want to learn how to heal and we want to learn how to say we're

sorry and we want to learn some better parenting techniques for you we want to learn how to love you better would you be willing to come to these sessions with us so that your voice can be represented in how we can better love you? Because we have absolutely let you down and you deserved more from that. And you didn't get it up until now. We're owning that and now we're going to change everything. That's your invitation. If he gets an, I mean, that's what you do to get him to go to counseling is you invite him to come be a part of helping teach you and the other guy, what love actually looks like and feels like what parenting actually loves and

looks and feels like. That's the, that's the path forward. Diane, that's the path forward Diane that's the path forward love your kid enough love your son enough and stepdad if you're watching

take all that tough guy energy and all that take a knee and tell that 15 year old little boy you're sorry and that this psychological abuse ends now. And then as I say all the time, he's going to watch you way more than he listens to you.

The proof will be not in how much therapy you go to and how much books you read. It'll be how you treat that little boy. Your move. We'll be how you treat that little boy. Your move. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if

you're a new home buyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their Home Buyer Edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillmortgage.com slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today.

All right, we're back. Let's take Una Mas. Let's go to Anne in Sacramento. What's up, Anne? Hello. Thank you for taking my call. You got it. What's up, Ann? Hello. Thank you for taking my call. You got it. What's up? I have two adult sons. They both have girlfriends that they've had for long terms. Both of the sons are moved out of the home. The girlfriends do not care for each other.

Fix it, mom. Fix it. And I don't want to be the interfering person. I've always tried not to be. But I'm going to. I'm going to. I don't know what to do because now it has not only, now it's filtered into the relationship with the brothers. When it hadn't really, but it's now come to the person. Oh, absolutely.

At some point, a good girlfriend will say, you choose, family or me, right? And I'm being facetious about good girlfriend. Okay, because you see my heart like drop. I'm being sarcastic, of course. No, nobody should ever do that. It's obnoxious and it's silly, and this is where you are. So here's the quick answer. What can you do?

Literally nothing. Like, pragmatically nothing. Here's what I would do if I was you, though, okay? Okay. So, basically, you just called and said, all right, it's fourth and 20. We're down by eight points. How do I win this game?

And I just said, there's pretty much no way you can win. But here's what I would try anyway, okay? Here's your Hail Mary pass. I would either anyway. Okay. Here's your Hail Mary pass. I would either get in person. That's the best. Or get on a three-way call. Or write a letter. The exact same letter to both boys.

And say, enough is enough is enough. As your mother, I'm not willing to see our family implode over two girlfriends who can't get along. And yes, that's very dismissive. These guys probably see them as more than their girlfriends. They probably see them as their futures and their thises and all the things. But the only appeal you have is to get the brothers back in a room. Are you really willing to lose your brothership, your brotherhoodness?

I don't know the right word there. Are you really willing to cash out our family connection over this spat between these two girlfriends? Mm-hmm. And prepare your heart, Annie, because they may pick the girl. They may pick the girl. But here's the weird thing. It's your picture that blew up, not theirs. Right.

You had this picture of the boys are going to meet these beautiful girls and we're going to have these hilarious times and me and the girls are going to go out and we're going to do these fun things and we're going to hassle the hilarious times and me and the girls are going to go out and we're going to do these fun things and we're going to hassle the boys and that's not happening. Because for whatever reason,

these two girlfriends are acting like idiots. And then your sons decided, hey, acting like an idiot looks like fun. We'll be idiots too. And then they joined in.

I'm so sorry that your picture is just in tatters. I hate that part. It is just in tatters. I hate that for you. It is. Unfortunately. I know it is. Because they were very, very close.

Yeah. Until. What happened? Was there a big thing? Was there a big blow up or dust up or something? This has been going on for several years. And I think the personalities between the girls are very different. They don't mesh.

I don't know if there's jealousy involved and, um, Oh, the two brothers love each other? Oh yes, they do. And, um, it finally came to a head. I mean, I, we kind of started to notice that. And this is what I've been, this lead with like the come to a head. I mean, we kind of started to notice that. And this is what I've been, lead with like the come to a head part. This is the good gossipy part. Lead with this.

What happened? Let's Jerry Springer this thing. What happened? One of the brothers decided, you know what? Enough is enough. Let's talk so we can clear this up. And instead of it getting resolved and, you know, OK, the girls need to talk. You know, they need to get together. They need to talk because this was their issue, you know, between the two of them.

And so the girls ended up talking. I don't really know how that went. I don't think it went horrible, but it didn't completely, it didn't resolve it. Should have checked out the hook or the DJ revolved it. Yeah. Things that needed to be said were said. And then they said, well, but I think. Then they went back to their respective Boyfriends And then the boyfriends Kind of became defensive about

The things that were said About the other person And you know The one brother kind of said I need to take a break from this There's got to be a break from this And then we'll figure out how to move forward So there's no big

like then Susie slept with Dan there's none of that no no no it's like I don't like your hair well she's annoying she laughs too loud she doesn't even call on my birthday she didn't even follow me on Facebook

and that led to a I'm not going to talk to you at a party I'm not talking to her then and then all of a sudden you wake up and it's two years and now no one will be in the same room together. Right. Exactly. Yes, exactly. It's the worst.

It's the worst. I hate it. I'm smiling out of just sadness. I hate it for you. I hate it for you. Because it's not supposed to be that way. People are supposed to be adults and grownups. No. No, exactly. I hate it for you. I hate it for you. Because it's not supposed to be that way. People are supposed to be adults and grownups.

No, exactly. And maybe those girlfriends are never going to be best bro-down friends. That's fine. They can be cordial and laugh. They can at least lie and pretend when the family gets together, for crying out loud. You know, that's all my expectation is. And I thought if I eventually needed to approach it, that's how I would approach it. Just never going to be the best friend. But we have to accept each other and be cordial, at least, minimally.

And I'll also say this. And it could evolve. It could definitely evolve into something better as time goes on. That's a fantasy. Uh-huh. And I also preach boundaries like crazy here. And if you keep going to, if a young couple gets married and they keep going to Thanksgiving

and mom's bananas and dad's always ranting about politics and brother and sister don't, like at some point I tell people, stop going, stop going, choose to be whole. And yes, it's gonna hurt. And yes, it's gonna ricochet through everyone else's family issues

But stop going just stop and at some level that may have happened The only shot you've got is to reach out to the boys. I guess you can reach out to the girls um, you could And just say it's hurting me. I mean you could play that card if you want, but I definitely wouldn't do that um, i'd reach out to the boys and just say Just say it's hurting me. I mean, you could play that card if you want, but I definitely wouldn't do that. I'd reach out to the boys and just say, guys, I'm losing my family here and I don't like it. Kelly's shaking her head no.

Why not? Sorry. We agree. Don't reach out to the girls. Oh, I just said that's a terrible idea. Yeah. Reach just out to the boys. Okay. I just said, that's a terrible idea. Yeah, reach just out to the boys. Okay. So forget what Kelly just said.

For sure, when you get off this phone, call the girls, both of them, and say, listen here, ladies. I'm editing this out. Don't do that, Ann. Yeah, I would call the boys and say I'm losing my family.

I don't like it. I raised y'all better than this. I raised you to be mature. I raised you to love each other. I raised you to be mature I raised you to love each other I raised you to have each other's backs I also raised you to be grown-ups When people say mean things about your girlfriend You're not in middle school anymore

I'm not going back out sky Meet me at the hills at 3 o'clock What are we doing? We're grown-ups And just be prepared for them to pick the girl too It's both, Ann But at least you'll be able to sleep at night Knowing I have spoken my piece and just be prepared for them to pick the girl too. It's both, Anne. But at least you'll be able to sleep at night knowing I have spoken my piece.

My son's made their grown-up decisions, honestly, just like I raised them to. And now you get to grieve the holidays that aren't going to happen. And then you and your husband get to decide what happens next. And that's hard and that's annoying and that's not what anybody wants.

And that's hard and that's annoying and that's not what anybody wants. And that's reality. Grief is the gap between what we wanted and what we hoped for and what actually happens. It's just that space. And you're having to sit in that space and it's uncomfortable and it's not fun. But it's your space to sit in. I'm sorry. Reach out to them and let me know. Be bold with them.

Be bold. Let them know how you really feel. Don't hedge your bets. Say the words that you want to say. Be reckless in your love for them and for your family. And then let me know how that conversation goes. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up?

Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond

to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. Today's song of the day is by one of my favorite songwriters of all times named Billy Joel, right? And if you don't know who Billy Joel is,

God help you, get on Spotify immediately. In fact, turn this of all time. His name's Billy Joel, right? And if you don't know who Billy Joel is, God help you. Get on Spotify immediately. In fact, turn this podcast off and just start listening to Billy Joel. Song is a shout out to our first call. Song's called Lullaby. Good night, my angel. And it goes like this. Good night, my angels.

Time to close your eyes. Save these questions for another day. I think I know what you've been for another day i think i know what you've been asking me i think you know what i've been trying to say i promised i would never leave you and you should always know wherever you may go no matter where you are i will never be far away good night my angel now it's time to sleep there's still so many things i want to say remember all the songs you sang for me we went went sailing on an emerald bay, and like a boat out on the ocean,

I'm rocking you to sleep. The water's dark and deep inside this ancient heart. You'll always be a part of me. Moms and dads, hug your kids. It goes quick. We'll see you soon.