The Dr. John Delony Show - Husband Spent $27K on Mobile Games

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

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Big news. New dates for money and marriage getaway just dropped for Valentine's Day weekend, 2026. Get tickets at ramsysolutions.com slash events to get away with your spouse in Nashville, Tennessee. I found out that my husband had been hiding $27,000 in debt. So what's he spending this money on? Mobile phone game purchases. Can I tell you this is not passing my smell test? I know. Me either.

Are you sure it's not only fans? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad you're with us. Pull up a seat. We're talking about your mental and emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. I'm here to sit with you.

we're going to figure out what's the next right move. Let's go out to Phoenix, Arizona, and talk to Kenna. What's up, Kenna? Hi, Dr. John. Thank for having me on the show. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up?

Well, I've been with my husband now. We've been married for seven years together for nine years. We came across Dave Ransey and the Financial Peace University and started this kind of financial. awakening journey. And through that process, I found out that my husband had been hiding about $27,000 in debt. Not the first time he's had debt that I wasn't aware of, but definitely the largest amount. And the biggest issue was that I was finding out in small pieces, and he would say that that was it.

There's nothing more. And then I continue to find more and more debts. And so it's more around the lying. That's been the larger issue, I think, for me. And then more recently found out that he had stolen money out of our HSA account to put towards these debts and then, you know, re-spent it. So it's kind of a short of a citizen blue. This pattern of spending and lying, I feel like I don't even know who he is at the moment.

That's the problem. Yeah. I've built a life. I've spent a decade with this guy. I don't even know who you are, which. Yes. When you look in the mirror, you ask yourself, how did I miss this? Mm-hmm.

What did I do? Like, what happened? I'm a person who. And I miss this. Yeah. Or you ask yourself the, the, there's the disbelief question that that's like, how did I miss this? Or there's the shame question, which is, I knew in my gut something wasn't right and I didn't press it. Mm-hmm.

So what's he spending this money on? Oh, this, okay. Um, mobile phone game purchases are the majority of it. Have you seen the receipts? Yeah, I look through all the bank statements, credit card statements, and there's some other purchases, but the bulk of it is on mobile games. and he has started to get counseling around it and it seems to be connected to some sort of collections addiction

to collecting things I guess is what he's been saying so can I tell you this is not passing my smell test I know me either are you sure it's not only fans that well i was looking into that well i couldn't find any evidence of it on what i had access to but i definitely that's what my gut's telling me this this this like i'm trying to wreck my brain

real fast live while we're talking i've heard gambling i've heard spend i mean i've heard like almost an OCDS compulsion towards like when a collector like a baseball card comes up I gotta get it got to get it that kind of thing and all of the majority has been either online gambling or some sort of only fans

or I'm seeing somebody else who have a drug problem I can't think of a time in my life when I've heard addicted to mobile it's His whole thing is like, oh, you collect characters, and then you become like, I'm like the top guy and the league, and I am the one that everybody goes to. And I'm like, well, that sounds like there's some self-worth stuff there. But, yeah, I feel like there's more, that's kind of been the challenge is every time it's like, no, that's it.

My gut was like, no, that's not it. And then eventually there would be more. And it's hard to view this as one incident. No, it's financial and fidelity. He's cheated on you a number of times. A number of times. And then with the continual lying and the continue unveiling of more and more, I've given so many opportunities to just, even the first, you know, portion of this that I discovered,

I was like, hey, let's just, you know, we're trying to get our finances together. We're going to debt free and all this stuff. So let's just put our cards on the table. Like, this is the time. Like, just whatever it is, we'll tackle it together. Do you have kids? That's it, I promise, you know. Do you have kids?

Yeah, we have one together and we're a blended family. So we have two kids from other marriages, but we have one child together. So you've been married before? Yes, we both were married before. What happened in your first marriage? Why did that marriage end? I was actually in a very abusive, like, toxic relationship with a man that was, you know, both emotionally, physically, sexually, abusive and lied and cheated and did all those horrible things. It took me about six years to get out of that situation.

So when I met my husband. And now we're back. Mm-hmm. Now we're back. Yeah. That's what I'm like. This is this whole. sense of safety

that I found with him got just demolished because Well you traded passivity for violence which is a I get that trade it's a good trade

but the underlying core deceiving dishonorable dishonest person still there yeah that's what it

yep which is this whole kind of full circle like I don't even know who you are because that's, I thought I was getting this totally different sort of, which, I mean, nothing like that, that's an extreme.

But, um, no, I mean, you, you, you took the acute physical and sexual and psychological safety. Like, you, that, I mean, you, you knew enough to walk away from that, but we still plugged into the same core. The same core challenge, yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you this. Have you pulled credit report? for both of you? Yes, so we've got to, yeah.

You're confident that you're locked in at 27,000 in the whole? I am not because there are ways to have money loans that are not on your credit report or ways for money to, you know, just like the HSA, I'd told them, I go, credit reports weren't the only way to discover, and then I find out, yeah, you've thousands of dollars have been taken out of her. So there are things that I still may not know. Have you checked your retirement accounts? Yes, I have all those.

We have all the accounts we have, like those are linked into a money app that we use. So I have, and things that weren't are now linked in there. But you know there's no loans against those things. Correct. Have you called your mortgage company to see if there's a HELOC against your house? Oh, gosh. No. I'll check that.

I would do that today. okay and here's here's to cut to the chase and get beneath all the madness here's your path forward okay question number one you have to ask yourself is this an or what moment and what I mean by that is you have to be honest about answering this question am I going to stay or am I going to go right and any question like if you are out I'm going to say he deserves, and I know people are going to bristle at that. Every human deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I don't care who you are.

You deserve me to tell you the truth. If you're out, I want you to exhale and be honest about that path. Okay? Okay. If you're wondering, I don't know, I need to see some big improvements. Everything's got to change. like that's the old dumb and dumber so you're telling me there's a chance

yes and here's the thing you and I know it's like I don't want to do any more work I just gave you another thing you're like well crap I didn't think about the freaking helog like I know you don't want to do any more work

but here we are okay right you have to do this hard gut-wrenching thing which is I am going to give you a path back to reestablish not re-establishing

from scratch establishing trust and here's what must be true and i would suggest things like you cannot have a cell phone you can have a brick phone otherwise i can't breathe not i don't i don't trust you right i can't trust you it's not a me thing it's a you thing you've you've made it impossible so here's a brick phone we're going to buy one it has no internet access to it and it can text and it can whatever. I'm going to set up a bark account or whatever,

a covenant eyes account or whatever, and I'm going to attach it to your phone and to our home computers so that it gives me a report of whoever I, whenever I go to websites. I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, so it's normally it's for parents and teenagers, right? Parents of kids, but the sentiment is here. I am going to, here's what you are,

going to choose to do if you want to choose to be in relationship with me. Yeah. And when a partner gets cheated on, which is what's happened to you, you set the 60, 90 day, 120 day, 180 day, you set the path for reestablishing trust. And to not do that is not fair because you're forcing him to be a mind reader and to quote unquote make you feel a certain way and he'll never be able to make you feel a certain way. You're going to feel awkward, uncomfortable. You're going to second-guess everything forever.

That's just what happens when you've been cheated on your whole life, right? To not give them a path and to stay in relationship isn't fair or call it. Right. And I hate to be that brass tacks about it, but that's where you're at. Yeah, I think, I mean, that kind of tracks then with what I've done the website check or checked our heel off. But, you know, we've got boundaries and accountability and sort of things in place. That's you building walls. That's you building boundaries.

Oh. You need to see him. Like, you have to protect yourself. He's stealing from your medical account. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's, and you have a child. Like, this is about protection, right?

Yeah. I don't want him to get credit for we're working together. No, no, no, no. you as a mother have had to you've had to get a bow and arrow to go defend and protect your family because he's one of the people trying to take from it and when you start stealing from your kids

HSA God help you dude I know that's nice you know what I mean so you're not crazy you're not crazy yeah and you had so this isn't about you doing what you ran a bunch of credit reports you went and checked a bunch of numbers to make sure you are safe and your kids are safe. That's not y'all being on the path to getting

well again. Right. Okay? That's you going to the ER. That's not about longevity. Now you're going to give him a path, a sidewalk, a cobblestone path that he can choose to walk or not. He might say, I don't want to be married to you if it means no phone. Right. He's a grown man. He gets to pick that. Yes, yeah. He may say, I'm not sharing my money in your account. I'm a grown man, I can do what I want. He can say, this is my HSA 2. And legally, he's right.

Yeah. Right? But it's giving him a path to say, if you want to build trust from scratch, from ash, here's what that'll look like. Okay. I didn't, I wasn't connecting the difference between like boundary setting versus like I don't know path forward so that's that's good that gives me

some stuff to think about or let me like to make a visceral example for you because you lived this there was a moment when you had to get you and a kid out of your last house right correct yes okay that's what you just did except you did it financially only I mean kind of he still has access service which makes me so nervous there you go okay so if reestablishing trust is you don't have access to this account for 120 days yeah so that I can get my feet back under me yeah and then by the way everybody who's been ever been cheated on everybody who's been a relationship with somebody who's committed any sort of fidelity infidelity right you also can I you've got to spend some time with you both in honoring what you had this feeling in my guts and I was wrong and I have a sense you're doing it again right now yeah I know you know in your bones or something else and you're so exhausted from first marriage you're exhausted from this marriage exhausted from 10 years of being gas lit it's just easier just to go on with the gas lights on

I'm afraid. I have this fear that either I'm not, I'm unjustly, well, not unjustly, but am I making a judgment call that may not be true or has time and time again, it's been proving my gut is accurate. And not only is there probably more to this, this probably will happen again because it's, already happened once before so yeah well that's sobering well most people don't realize that when somebody cheats on you or deceives you that one of the i think the hardest person to trust again is you yeah 100% I keep making bad calls no no no no it's not because somewhere along the way, if you and I sat down for a couple hours, we would be able to trace all the way back in your life when it was very clear to you that whatever you felt was wrong and you need to shut up with your stupid gut feelings and with your sense and with your insights, you'd be quiet and let somebody else do what they want to do. That probably goes all the way back to when you're a

kid, right? Yeah. So you're not messed up. There's not something wrong with you. You're not an idiot. The next evolution of you learning to walk in your skin and walk in your shoes is, I am worthy of being trusted. And if you deceiver don't like the fact that I'm asking questions or I am trusting my intuition, I'm trusting my lived experience, that's your problem, not mine. But reestablishing trust with yourself. And here's what that looks like. I will commit to if I have a gut feeling about something I'm going to,

going to ask. I'm not going to keep secrets. And often we think of keeping secrets as things we're not going to tell that we did. Secrets are also questions we're not asking. You can be nervous about something, have an intuition about something, wonder if somebody's cheating or hiding money or whatever the thing is. And it's a secret to be harboring that in your spirit and your chest and not put it on the table for your partner to answer and to address. And I'm not going to keep secrets anymore. I'm worth not keeping secrets anymore. So that's your path.

Make a call, and I'm not going to make that call for you. I'm either in or I'm out. And if I'm in, I am going to be very thoughtful. And you know what? I'm going to go 30 days by 30 days. I'm going to revise it every 30 days. But for 30 days, here's how you can establish trust. No phones.

No connection to our bank accounts or whatever. You get to decide what they are, and they can sound extreme. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You're trying to catch your breath after running out of a house that was on fire. And that's what matters here. You're not crazy, Kenna. You're not crazy.

You get to decide what happens next. And then your husband gets to choose. Is he in or is he out? Thank you so, so much for the call. When we come back, a man asks how to support his wife as she considers going back to work. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year can be tough for everybody, so I want you to make sure you check in on your friends and reconnect with loved ones. I recently just got back from visiting some old friends in Texas, and it was like a cup of cold water in the desert. And just like it can take a little

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What up, James? yeah hi dr deloney what's up man thank you on not much doing well very good what's up uh so so i guess i'll just get into it um so we're a single income family um my income my wife is a stay-at-home mom to our two kids we have one uh one is under three should two and a half, and then we have a, well, he's going to be eight months here in a few days. But so we were driving the other day, and my wife mentioned to me possibly she's always been a stay-at-home mom since we've had our kids. but my wife mentioned to me recently possibly wanting to go back to work which is fine I mean if she wants to go back to work

then I have no problem with that it might be kind of difficult financially but we can figure that out but I guess I was just wondering, like, how should I, she hasn't said anything to me since about it, but I think it's becoming, the stay-at-home mom thing is becoming a little overwhelming for her. Our youngest child is, I mean, he's fine, like there's nothing medically wrong with him,

but he's a lot for sure. He wants to be held 24-7, and if he's not being held, he starts screeching, so he's a bit much. So I guess I just wanted to ask, how should I best be there to support her in that possible transition?

James, you're an awesome husband, man. thank you thanks for being a guy that loves his wife and wants to honor her and you like all of us new dads get stuck in those moments where it's like

I don't know the right thing to say and the right thing to do and I don't know James if you're like I was back when we had little kids but it felt like I could see a clear solution to a thing

and I knew just being like why don't you do this I know that wasn't the answer and so I kind of would get stuck and spin so thank you so much um here's here's the path i would take um i would want to know do you want to go back to work

because you find purpose and fulfillment in a career like how can i love you in this transition i think you literally say those words you mentioned going back to work i would love to hear more can you tell me more about that the question i would want to know is is going to work a a justifiable escape from the madness that is day in and day out with a two and a half year old and an eight month old because if it is let's seek to solve for that let's seek to solve for we're going to come up with some extra money and we're going to get babysitters we're going to you're going to go two days a week to hang out with other moms we're going to put our kids in a Tuesday Thursday school we're going to figure out some things we can do to give you a break

It's very common for mothers, new mothers especially, to drown in what I would call loneliness. They just suffocate. And they think it's the kids, they are so lonely. And the way we've set up our society is you, if a woman wants to be a stay-at-o-mom, the default setting is you go inside this box at your house with these kids and you never come out. and it's just it's insanity it's madness it's not how people have lived for all of human history there was wives and aunts and sisters and neighbors and grandmothers there was so many people that gave you breaks and loved on your kid and punished your kid and supported your kid and

taught your kid and now we just set it up to where it's like you close this door and it's all you it's madness and so i would want to know is that the sense that you're going to through or is she thinking man I loved being at work I felt the purpose there I want to get back into that grind and I loved it and I'm even embarrassed to say that because I know by the way James you've heard me say this on the show the modern mom can't win because if she's at home people are like why aren't you working and contributing and financially and if she's at work like oh you're just going to let somebody else raise your kid like you can't win and so it's letting her know I know the whole world is yelling at you from every direction.

I want you to know I love you and I'll support you and I'll walk with you. But I want to make sure we're solving the right pain in your heart, your chest. And then just shut up and listen and let her talk. Yeah, that's a good suggestion because I do think, I mean, I try not to assume what she's thinking because that always ends up getting me in trouble. Well done, James. Well done. It took me like 15 years of being married to figure that out.

You're way ahead of me. But just internally, I do get the feeling that it's more just like an escape thing. Yeah. Because she's mentioned to me in the past, like, actually, exactly what you just said. She's said in the past, like, I'm lonely. I just feel lonely. Yeah.

So I do feel like it's an escape from an escape to somewhere where she automatically has friends kind of thing. Well, and it's permissible, right? It's not permissible for a mom who's not talked to another adult for three years outside of her spouse, it's not permissible for her just to go running out into the night and not come back, right?

People will frown upon that. And people frown upon any number of other solutions, like just going to hang out with some women twice a week, just some girlfriends, just to laugh and cut up and be silly and have interaction.

People like, oh, really, you can abandon your kids. And sometimes moms feel that. Like, I feel like I'm abandoning my kid. Or sometimes this is not you at all, but sometimes husbands are like you need to like just jerks right so there is that it feels like sometimes the only the only actual place to go where people won't beat you up too bad is i'm gonna go get a job and so her knowing she's right you're right there with her um and here's another

you know what i'm gonna take back a few things i said you know what i would actually do first james if i were if this is just me and you're in your seat but i would reach out to a friend or a community member somebody I trust, I would get a babysitter for three hours on a Saturday morning. So you figure this out. Somebody from a local church, somebody from a school, somebody who've y'all used before, whatever. Or a grandparent come in or something. And you take her out and say, we have two beautiful babies, which means we have a whole brand new marriage. We get to decide with the next two years, next five years looks like. Let's rebuild an amazing marriage together.

How can I love you in this season? Okay. And then just let her go. And she might say, I don't know, and be like, I know, but give me one or two things. Let's talk about it. How do you want this house to feel like when I walk home from work every day?

How do you want this house to feel like when you wake up every morning? and James, it might be you get up an extra hour and you're knocking out the dishes and you're having to get up an extra hour and a half early because you're going to get your exercise in and you're going to knock out the dishes and you're going to help with the first couple loads of laundry.

And, like, I can do that so that she can go visit some girlfriends or I'm going to come home early on Thursdays and Tuesdays and while you're going to hang out with, like, whatever. We get to build what this thing looks like and both of you are going to be exhausted for a season, right? It's winter. You can put coats on.

It's going to be cold. Like, we're going to be exhausted together. What is that going to look like? Yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good suggestion. I think a lot of it, too, is... So we have kind of been... we're not as much as I'd like,

but we've kind of been following the baby steps for a couple years now. So I've had a side hustle, a second job for, I was there for gosh, I guess it's actually been probably more like three and a half years. I've had the second job for three years.

It may be time to pause. Yeah, I don't have it anymore. Okay, okay. But yeah, so that might be an element there. Well, again, part of the, we get to rebuild, we get to the redesign marriage 3.0, because y'all had a marriage when you got married, you had a new marriage when you had a kid, won.

new marriage now that you got two kids in redesigning marriage 3.0 and by the way i'm on marriage like 22.0 right um but marriage 3.0 might a part of that is going to be financial discussion where do we want to be financially we want to be completely do we want to have one year of scorched earth we're both sobbing and miserable every night but i'm working like crazy and we don't own anybody any money is all we want because we can do that and then have the rest of our lives or do we to pause everything we're not going to borrow any more money we're not going to we're not going to future chain our family we're not going to chain future family to past choices and so we're going to scratch and claw and drive crummy cars and whatever but we're not going to go any further in debt

i'm not going to take any any other jobs because you need support right now i'm going to be here you're going to go out with friends we don't have any money if you ought to go like out having a few drinks but you're all going to go for walks all going to go play car you're all going to go do whatever I don't know, whatever y'all want to do. You're going to go do those things and because for the next nine months, I'm just going to park it here. And then when our kids, one and a half years old and our kids four, then we're going to have a little bit more breathing room and we can make a new decision then.

But it's sitting down and being honest about the finances, honest about your kids, honest about loneliness, honest about both of your hearts, what do you all need from each other? And then making a commitment, high five, like bring it in, bro, hug. like we are committing to this thing and then we're just going to make it happen. And if that's going back to work, it's going back to work. But it sounds like in this situation, it's just not being at home with a constant stress and pressure. And that's a very real pain.

And by the way, James, she's also feeling the sense of what kind of mother doesn't want to be around her kid? What kind of mother gets exhausted holding her baby? That's the other tension here. She can't win. And so you coming alongside her and saying, I see you, and I love you, and I know you. celebrating you. What do we want this thing to look like? Man, then it's game on. Then it's game on. Thanks for call, brother. When we come back, a woman asks how to confront her alcoholic friend.

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What's up, Lauren? Hello Hello I'm glad to be here Thanks for having me on your show I'm so glad you called in How are you? A bit nervous

But I'm sure You know you're very good at relaxing Your People that come here to speak with you So yeah I'm ready to go All right I'm nervous too by the way

I'm still trying to figure How to do this So I'm glad that you're with us We can both be nervous together So let it rip What's up All right I have a friend

that I've known for about four or five years. We're about the same age. We're older gals and around 60. And I've noticed that, you know, when we first started our friendship and I would come over for dinner, she would have a glass or two of wine and, okay, that's fine. But now over the years, I see the increasing symptoms of excessive alcohol usage. She does two or three glasses of wine a night, overworked, poor boundaries, you know, those kind of things.

And I don't need to be judgmental, but it's kind of what I do for a living so I can sort of see what's going on. And I tried to sort of gently confront her in that, like, you know, I'm getting into a new health regime and watching what I eat and, you know, sugar intake and stuff like that. And I kind of mentioned, I thought, okay, well, come around the health route on this. And I said, you know, you know that what you drink at night? I said, that has carbs, you know, if you can just sort of cut it back or you, and she said, yeah, I know, but, you know, but I like it or it's worth it or. And I was like, okay, so resistance. And I've noticed since then, she's sort of like, not calling as much. Yeah. And, you know, we're still friends and stuff. And I think, you know, I'm just getting maybe too close to home, but I'm like, I would know how to do this, how to confront, right, how to just sit down and have that real talk if it was my family. or if it was in my profession, no problem. But with a friend, I'm like, how do I manage this? How do I do this?

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough when our, I got a call last night that I was not expecting. And it was a huge emotional weight. And I called a friend. And actually, I called two friends. And I said, hey, I need y'all to help me walk through and think through what my next move is. because I can't carry it by myself and I asked them

to speak into a really wild situation that just got dropped in my lap the difference between my situation and your situation is your friend hasn't asked for your input on this thing and so I had

I got two different answers by the way both were tough to hear both contradicted each other and both this is going to sound strange is exactly what I need to hear but I asked for it and so you're up against a friend who hasn't asked for your input in their health

hasn't asked your input in their alcohol consumption or how they're doing and yet you as a friend like I would feel compelled to say hey I love you I want you to know I see you and I know you and I'm worried about you yeah and so when you're giving wisdom to somebody

that you care about that did not ask for your wisdom it may cost you the relationship Yeah And I always have to ask myself Am I okay with losing this friendship If this person gains their life Yep Or am I

Do we have good enough friends? I've got friends all I'll say it this way My friends, my longtime friends They're not healthy guys at all Like comically so They're just not And

But we're not such good friends that we hassle each other all the time over it all the time right if y'all aren't there then for me that gives me a signal of the state of your friendship and you just have to ask yourself you know what i mean like like i'll ask my buddies are you seriously having a drink and they'll be like yeah whoa oh you're not good and i'll be like you're an idiot and they're like but we are in relationship and they know that guy cares about me and occasionally they'll not have another one and occasionally they'll have two just to spite me right just to be silly

but that's the nature of a 30 or 40 year friendship in your situation I don't know let me and I'm thinking about this out loud in real time let me ask you this what's your goal what's your goal of a hard conversation that she would suddenly go God I never thought of that before you're right or is it that she's going to get mad at you but then behind the anger she's going to be sad and be grieved and know Lauren loves me? I don't know my fear is like I see the progression of the illness right?

I see you know more cognitive you know how it affects your ability to reason and feed law logical and to see reality as it is, not as you would like it to be. What do you do for a living? I'm an addictions and mental health therapist. Okay, so let me ask you the other side of that equation. Could it be that she struggles with seeing reality as it is, and alcohol helps take the edge off of that? Yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes we attach the causality to the other side of the chain. Yeah. I wonder if she's a person who struggles with anxiousness all the time. Anxiousness, yeah, definitely anxiety. Even her daughter, her daughter entered into counseling. Her daughter's in her 20s, and she's been now suggesting that her mom do this. So I feel, and I just affirm that when I hear that, I'm like, yeah, well, you know, maybe that's something. But my friend has a history, you know, from what she's told me of, you know,

spousal abuse, domestic abuse, child, there's a lot of addiction in her family of origin and extended family. So I know there's probably sexual assault like it's probably like full, full on. All right, Lauren, can I challenge you on something? We're friends now. Sure.

And I'm smiling, kind of. Is that cool? Okay. Have you ever been able to, well, are you thinking about the carbs with somebody in one of your programs before? no no you know you can't circle around the wagon on this conversation definitely

it's either I'm gonna go straight into this thing and say hey I need to just tell you as a friend who loves you over four or five years you've been a close friend of mine and I've actually found myself like I really care about you and that means as your friend I gotta tell you I'm worried about you yep you don't have to get into the you don't have to be a therapist you don't have to get into the sexual abuse, you don't have to get into this, and your daughter,

and I am worried about you. And if they invite you in after that, if she invite you and says, why are you worried? Man, I've heard this. You told me this story. I told me this story. I'm just worried about you.

That seems like the best path, and it might cost you this friendship. Yep. But I also think you wouldn't be you if you weren't the kind of person that would have that conversation. Nope Bang on

Can I tell you She's lucky to have you as a friend Oh thank you Yeah It's funny I actually had a situation like this Before I went into You know

A career that I'm in With a friend Good friend Really good friends right And he crossed the boundary He wasn't sexual or anything Not of that nature But just cruelty

And I drew a boundary with him And said I'm not talking with you when you're like this, and I hung up. And I didn't hear from him for like five, ten years. And then all of a sudden, I was blue, I got a call from him. I mean, he was so angry with me. He didn't even invite me to his wedding. He was like a brother, right?

We were like brothers and brother and sister. And then I got a call from him that said, you know, I'm sorry about that. You know, I'm an alcoholic. Right? So I'm thinking, this is going to be the same kind of thing. You're right. This is the way God knitted me. this part of my personality

and I, and honest to God, I feel like if I don't confront her on this, if I sort of people please the situation, right, and kind of like walk around eggshells on this, if she were to die from this illness, I would feel like I should have. Should have confronted her.

Right? And I watch my dad die. Like, I know how this goes. So I can already see the signs in her. Right? And she thinks she was like, oh, it's worth it, and then she thinks she's just going to drop dead one day, and it's going to be great. She'll drink and get to stay in that. And I'm not criticizing, but it's like, yeah, she's using it for a reason, right? People use because they're in pain.

So she's using it, you know, to stay away from that pain as much as she can. She doesn't understand. You're going to linger an illness. You're not just going to be taken, like, in your bed at sleep at night and everything's going to be fine. You're going to suffer. Yeah. So I want to challenge the training you and I both got, okay?

because the more I'm out into the world I think we were trained on one aspect incorrectly okay the path that I've been wrapping my head around recently is that you can't be in relationship with somebody unless you see them you got to know that they're a different person

than you and then you have to get to know them and then you got to celebrate them regularly and those three things give you permission to challenge them. Yeah, there you go. But where you and I were trained is, you never criticize. Right.

And I think that leaves a, look at our culture that says, you just go do you and whatever you feel like is the next thing you want to do, it's the right thing. And we're watching our families dissolve,

we're watching our culture dissolve, we're watching our friends die. Yeah. And so if you can look in the mirror say, I have seen her. I know she's different than me. She's got lived experience. She's got childhood tragedies.

I've got my own childhood stuff. I know her. I know she's struggling. I know the language that she speaks. I know what she cares. I know her. She's my friend. And I celebrate her regularly.

I call her to let her know, dude, you crush that. Your daughter's amazing, whatever. That buys you permission to then I got to tell you the truth. Yeah. I love you too much. It would be not loving you. As a therapist, it's dishonoring to watch somebody.

It's cruel just to watch a client spiral and spiral. And I'd say, hey, stop doing this thing, right? Yeah. And so here, it's one of those moments. I think challenge, I think criticism is a right move if you are in a relationship where she knows she's loved. Yeah. Then that's the most loving thing you can do is to put that on the table. Yep.

I agree. You know, it's interesting. I started watching your show, I don't know, about two months ago, maybe more. And it actually gave me license to go in a direction that I always wanted to go, which is I'm very pragmatic. Like, I don't want a person in my practice, like, coming for three years. It's like, no, like, let's get to the root causes. What's driving this, right? And then let's figure out a way out of this so that you can just go on about your life.

and actually have a good life and you just come to see me when you want, I don't know, like a tune up or something, right? I remember, I think I've talked about on the show, I remember when the person I see told me on day one, my job is to work myself out of a job with you. And I remember thinking, I can trust you.

Yeah. That's my job, is to help you get well so you can go get back out on the road. Yeah. I'm extremely pragmatic. Good. I was educated. you know, here it's university, right?

Sure. I won't even get into all of that, but I'm like, no, how does the academia, how does theoretical, you know, evidence-based stuff, how do we actually, like, put, plug that in and exactly what you just said, like, let's solve this, right? Like, life, and one of the things I picked up is life isn't solved, it's managed. It's just, okay, how do we put together something where you can manage your life well and live well in amongst the insanity that this world can

become something. That's right. And here's the thing. You know this better than any of us. Alcohol works. So I would look at your friend and say, hey, you're not broken. You're using a tool that has worked great for you. And it's going to kill you. Yep. And so, I'm not dishonoring you. I'm not telling you that something's broken. I'm telling you that your strategy for solving, for keeping at bay,

the hellhounds that have been chasing you since you little girl. Isn't not the truth. The thing that has kept you safe and taken the edge off of that pain has actually worked. And only people who spend times with people who struggle with addiction know that. Alcohol is not the problem. The sex addiction isn't the problem. It's the solution to a black hole inside somebody's chest.

And so I love you enough to enter into that black hole with you for a minute and to say, I see you, I'm worried about you, and I love you. and the moment you're ready, I'll be right here. Yeah. I'll be right here. And then similarly, like my buddy John,

who's, like, he runs an HVAC company. When I need help with my air conditioner, I call him. Before I call a mechanic, I'm like, hey, is this thing working? Is this the right thing? And my friend who's a banker,

I call him. And similarly, they happen to have a guy trained in mental health stuff. So when they got challenges, they call me? And what an amazing thing that her new best friend happens to be very skilled as sitting with people wrestling with alcohol. Yeah. It's a skill. I'm not going to hand you my wrench, but if you ask for it, I got it right here in the back. I honestly feel like it's a God-given, like this is my purpose. It's awesome. I've known that since I was quite young, but now I've been

able to enter into, because it means one thing to have that is your purpose, but then you also need to be competent. So you need to get your education and you're training, right? I know what you're doing. And then you have your own lived experience too, which I think adds that third stool, that third leg to the stool of wisdom. Yeah. Right? You've coached people. You've have your own experience and you went and got the education. You actually know what you're talking about. You didn't quote unquote do your research on Google or whatever people say these days. Like you wouldn't, you wouldn't got, you wouldn't studied it, right? So you're the perfect person. But if every time my friend John came to my house and he walked around and started

telling me about my air conditioners, I would just get annoyed with them real fast. Right? And so if you show up to your friend's house as an addiction specialist, that's not why she invited you over. Nope. But it's letting her know, hey, I see you,

and I just got to, I love you enough to tell you that I see the struggles you have. And the moment you're ready, to go to call somebody about AA, to go see a therapist, to go to whatever, I will do everything I can, use every skill I have, every contact I have, and I'll be the first person at your door to walk with you. But I can't keep my mouth shut anymore.

I love you too much. I love you too much. And that might cost you the friendship. But you will know I treated her with dignity. I treated her with respect. I treated her with honor. I treated her with truth. And I hope she will know, even if we disagree that, man, I'm loved.

especially that we disagree. I'm loved. Thank you so much for the call, Lord. I'm glad to know folks like you are out there. You make my heart full, dude. That's awesome. We'll be right back.

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All right, we are back. We've got a money and marriage question. We've got the two money-marriage events. I think the November one sold out and the February 1, Valentine's Day weekend. Folks, listen to this. You can solve Christmas and Valentine's Day, one purchase. come to Nashville to the best marriage retreat ever it's a long weekend here in national tennessee it's a blast rachel cruz and i put it on it's awesome i don't know there may be a few

tickets left for november but i think it was sold out but it may be a few left um i know there's some tickets left for the february one february one good job john um but come join us all right here's one of the anonymous questions that was left at the last money marriage how do you prioritize your partner over your kids without feeling guilty. I want to say this with all, every ounce of being I have. You don't do or not do the right thing

because of how you feel. Feelings job is not to tell you the truth. That's not what your feelings are designed. for your feelings are not designed to direct your path feelings make terrible GPS systems feelings are designed to keep you safe and keep you alive and so if you find yourself constantly doting on your kids and leaving your wife aside you constantly obsessed with the kids the kids the kids and leaving your partner behind your husband behind whoever feeling guilty and choosing to get a babysitter once a week

feeling guilty and like at my house I walk in the front door the first person I go to is my wife my kids now they've known that for their whole life but that's where I go first and then I go hug the kids because she's priority number one and their parties two and two

like I can feel all kind of ways but I'm going to go do that right thing and what's happened over time is when you continue to do the right thing. right thing your default setting shifts you stop feeling guilty and i would ask myself in my quiet moments if i'm writing a journal if i'm going for a walk by myself when my body feels guilty what is it trying to protect me from why is that alarm going off that suddenly i'm not safe that i'm doing something

wrong i'm putting people at risk where does that guilt come from and often that guilt of got to be kids kids kids kids kids kids that guilt can come from the media we consume that always telling especially young moms you have the wrong stroller you've got the wrong clothes your kid has another right halming costumes you don't look right you're not working you should be working whatever or that guilt comes from people pleasing

that guilt any number of places but ask yourself be honest and often I've got to write out if I'm trying to track down a feeling I've got to journal it out where's this thing coming from but seek to get to the bottom of the guilt but the answer to this is built into the question how do I prioritize my partner over my kids without feeling guilty you prioritize your partner over your kids feel the guilt to go do the right thing anyway do the right thing anyway the feelings that I pay extra careful attention to are shame and there's there's some things that we do as a culture we should be ashamed

shame is a good thing it's when it gets toxic it's when it becomes an identity that's when it becomes an illness and i pay special attention to to fear to being scared and i have to be conscious in my safe right now actually safe people call it trust in your gut right i got to i got to trust my gut on this one i don't feel safe but i want to i want to know why feelings like guilty and disappointment those are important feelings but they don't direct my day feelings of being motivated at out, especially I don't direct my day. I'm going to go do the next right thing. I'm going to feel that feeling along the way, but I'm going to go do it.

So when it comes to being a good partner, when it comes to being a good parent, I'm not going to try to match my do the next right thing with, and I want to feel good about it. I have to know that the action over and over and over will over time beget the good feelings. And even then, not all the time. Thanks for a question. Man, come to Money Marriage. It's so great. Spend a whole weekend with me, Rachel Cruz,

lots of one-on-one time. All the questions are answered. It is a blast, and you will leave. I read the reviews. You will leave with a transformed marriage and a roadmap for you guys to go build an amazing life together. Peace out.