The Dr. John Delony Show - Husband Yells When He’s Stressed… Is That OK?

Episode Date: March 23, 2022

Disconnection is one of the most common problems couples face. Today, we’re talking with a burned-out newlywed struggling to support his wife, a woman realizing her husband’s outburst could be a major problem, and a woman whose husband has zero real friends. I feel burned out trying to physically & emotionally support my wife My husband yells when he’s stressed. How can I help him stop? My husband is lonely, has no friends, & I’m worried about him Lyrics of the Day: "I Wish I Knew How It Would Feel To Be Free" - Nina Simone Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Greensbury Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney show, how honest can I be? Oh, 100%. Are you positive? Oh, yeah. The type of yelling you're describing is abuse and it is trauma. His ex-wife walked out on him. Ta-da! Maybe this is all coming together.

James, we should start a podcast. What are you doing? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so glad you're here with us. Seriously, what are you doing with your life? Of all the podcasts, you picked this one. Actually, I'm really glad that you did. If you want to be on the show, go to johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K.

johndeloney.com slash ask or give us a shout. Leave a message at 1-844- 693- 3291. Hold me closer. That song's stuck in my head, man. You know what else is stuck in my head? It's 9 o'clock on a...

Let's go to Chance in Fort Worth. Hey, Chance, what's up? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? I'm... Man. Microphone smells like a beer. I keep...

Got that song in my head, man. Oh, actually, I'm in front of a microphone. It doesn't really smell like a beer. I was just singing that song, Piano Man. It's the best. Chance, I'm all over the place today, but doesn't really smell like a beer. I was just singing that song, Piano Man. It's the best. Chance, I'm all over the place today, but you sound like you have both feet on the ground. So what's up? How can I help?

Well, that's a first. Well, so. Welcome to the gang. So I got married about eight months ago, and I'm struggling to balance my own mental, physical health and my hobbies and my personal goals, as well as taking care of my wife and making sure she's emotionally fulfilled and taken care of. That's been really hard. So when you say really hard, expound on that a little bit. What does that mean well so pretty much since as soon as we got married she has been dealing with some health issues that popped up seemingly

out of nowhere what what type of health issues uh her immune system isn't the best so she's been getting breaking out in a lot of hives and just been needing a lot of extra care basically okay uh which is i mean i'm more than happy to take care of her and I love that I can and I'm that we're here, but it's just hard for me to do that. And then also go and get my exercise or, you know, pick up a couple extra hours at work and, uh, do the things that I also need to do in order to function. Yeah. So sounds like you had a picture of what eight months into marriage is going to be like, and the world threw you a curve ball.

It's just me and you hanging out. And the way you said, it seems like health stuff just came out of nowhere sounds like you're almost uh not quite buying into it i'm definitely buying into it okay okay um so man when you say you don't have time for other stuff are you like what type of care is she requiring well'll be like, she'll swell up and I'll need to go and just make sure that it doesn't get ER bad, basically, because I've had to take her to the ER a couple of times. Okay. You know, and she's immobilized a lot of the time. So I'm taking care of our dog and just everything. We don't have kids yet, thank goodness, even though that's on the docket,

but it's also scary because... Yeah. Now it doesn't sound like a good season to be bringing that level of complexity into your home. What have the doctors said? What's the prognosis? Do they have any idea

of what's going on? Yeah, they're figuring it out. We're working on getting a special type of injections that should get her good. Okay. Should get her good. So, man, so how can I help? I just, I don't know how to balance this. I'm out of gas, basically. And I can feel my heart starting

to harden a little bit in these areas and I, it's scaring me. Yeah. So, um, a couple of thoughts right away. Um, balance is a myth. It's not real. It's not a, not a thing okay um burnout and resentment and condescension those things are very very real so in a season where hey somebody's really sick somebody's pregnant somebody lost a job somebody fill in the blank what that's going to be the rest of your life there's going to be seasons uh when we have a newborn and we have a middle schooler and we have some know-it-all high schooler, that's going to be seasons of your life. And so it's less about how do I balance all this? And it's more, how do I stay well and how do I function and operate in whatever season I'm in? Meaning when it's cold outside, I'm going to put a jacket on. And when it's cold outside,

I'm not going to go play soccer all night. I may have to run on a treadmill inside, right? So we're still exercising, still moving, but it's just going to look different in that season. So taking balance off the table, give me a list of a couple of things you need in your life to be well. I need my personal time. I need some time to myself.

Be way more specific than that. Because that benchmark will move. Do you need an hour to play video games? Do you need personal time? Like, I need to go to the gym. I need to go meet with a mentor or a friend. I need to go grab a drink with a couple of buddies. Like, what do you mean by you time? I need time with no expectations where I'm not needed.

So that could be going to the gym. That could be video games. That could be going and seeing a buddy, but I just need time where, you know, I'm not needed. So I'll, bad news is brother.

You got married. I know. And I'll say bad news, brother. You're a member of my country and bad news. Brother is you're a member of a couple of neighborhoods and communities and a workplace. There will never be a moment for the rest of your life where you're not needed. Unless you unplug, go back to your mom's basement, and never leave.

Okay? Yeah, that doesn't sound too good. No. So I want you to take the idea that you're not needed, that you don't have purpose off, and replace that with, I need time for restoration. I need time for connection. I need time for laughter. I need time for taking care of my physical and psychological and spiritual and mental

health. Okay. Those things are all super good because you can't be present. You can't help anybody. You can't be good at work or at home or as a dad one day or as a friend if you're not taking care of these other things. But if just this idea of I want to be off, I just want to get in my car and drive away for a while, the feeling I get, but the reality is you've made some choices and, I mean, you're just living in the world, man. So you're in. So let's, I want to drill down and ask you a hard question.

Do you want to do some stuff? Do you want some, do you need some connection time? Do you want to go to the gym? You want to go do some stuff with your buddies? Are you just getting sick of taking care of your wife? And there's not a right or wrong answer here. Just be honest. Probably both, to be completely honest.

Okay. So I think it's important. If you don't look in the mirror and be honest with what's really going on inside of you, you're not going to be able to act. And you're not going to be able to do well next. Every step you take, if you're not honest be able to do well next. Every step you take, if you're not honest with what you see in the mirror is going to be some, uh, some sort of addictive cover over. You're going to go hang out. You're going to get angry. You're going to get addicted to anxiety. You're going to get depressed. You're going to get addicted to those chemicals

too. You're going to drink a little bit more. You're going to play a little bit more video games. You're going to get a little more annoyed. You got to look in the mirror and say, I, it's not what I signed up for. And I need you to hear me say it's okay to think that and it's okay to feel that. All right? You're not dysfunctional or broken or a jerk for thinking, good God, dude, I'm eight months in and this is what this is. That's okay. It's what happens next that is about character and metal and strength.

Okay? And character's got two forms. Character's got boundary forms and character's got action. Okay? So sometimes taking care of somebody that we love when it's exhausting is a phone call. It's not, I'm not showing up every second of every day. You can't be that for your wife for the rest of everything.

You can't be everything all the time, 24-7, 365. You may need to get some help. Do you have some family in the area? Do you have some friends or community? Do you have some skilled nursing that could come be of assistance while you are going to exercise, where you're going to a counselor, where you're going to have to stay at work a little bit and make a little bit more money?

My sister is not far. I mean, but is she willing to help two nights a week? Yeah, yeah, totally. Okay. How does that conversation happen in your home? If you say, hey, two nights a week, I need to go to the gym or I need to go fill in the blank

and sister Sarah's going to come over. How does that go over? Probably pretty well. Okay. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to be specific and take the angst and frustration off. I think you're in a season. You said the doctors are working on this.

I think that there's light at the end of this tunnel, right? Yeah, totally. So this is a season. It's winter, okay? It's just cold outside. And don just cold outside and don't lose hope and don't give up and don't go running into the woods and into the night. It's winter. But I do want you to be very, very specific about your needs and doing nothing, having no responsibility is no longer an option. You got married. Okay. Talk, be very specific about here's what makes

me well. Spending an hour or two with my friends, spending three hours with my friends once a week, getting together with a group of guys to go serve. That's important to me. Going to the gym three times a week. That's important to me. And then there's some of those things you're gonna have to work around. Like I have two little kids. They used to love going to the gym. They used to love spending all late into the night at the MMA gym. I loved that. I had a gang there. I loved it. And then I had kids. And so I've had to move my gym into my garage with a bunch of stuff I bought off Craigslist over the years. It's different. And now I've come to love it, but I didn't have the hour anymore to drive there, hang out too long and then drive back. Now I just do it at my house, right? So some of those things I had to shift and change because my life shifted

and changed. And I got to decide whether I whined and complained about it, or I chose to love what I had. And now I love what I've got. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, totally. And I need you to make sure you find somebody that you can be honest with. And what I mean by honest is that you can say, this week was really hard. And this week was pretty annoying. It was hard. And that person's not going to beat you up for it. They're not going to give you a bunch of dumb advice. They're not going to judge you for it. They're going to say, I'm sorry, man. And pass the queso. Or I'm sorry, man. It's your set to go lift. And then you can have somebody to talk to. Because if you bottle that stuff up, and you don't say it, and you don't say it, and you don't say it, it's going to turn into resentment. And then you can have somebody to talk to because if you bottle that stuff up and you don't say it,

you don't say it, and you don't say it, it's going to turn into resentment. And then this thing's over. Okay. How close are you to just walking out the door? I'm... Be honest.

Be honest. You've thought about it. How close are you? And not coming back, very far from that, but running away for a day or two, probably pretty close. Okay. What, what does the conversation look like if you sit down with your wife and say, Hey, um, I'm going to take a day and my sister's going to come. Would she be like, Oh, thank God. I'm so, I'm so happy that you're going to get away for a day.

Or would she say you're abandoning me and you're leaving me and I hate you? I feel like if I had that conversation a month ago, it might be that, but now she would be relieved probably. Okay. So think about caring as you have to take care of you too. And if you're not exercising, if you're not eating well,

if you're not sleeping, then the long haul ability you have to take care of her goes away. So taking care of you is an important part of taking care of her. Making sure you're well is an important part of making sure she's well. Hear what I'm saying? Yeah. That means you're going to have to ask for help. And here's the big picture.

You had a picture of what marriage is going to be like, and it's very, very different. Your wife probably had a picture of what marriage was going to be like too, and it's very different for her also. So even though she's struggling right now, eight months in, she's sick, you're having to take care of her. It's changed all your plans. You had all these dreams about how we were just going to run around the house naked all the time and having fun.

It was going to be crazy. We're going to go on vacations. And now sick, exhausted, tired, you're not able to hang out. All those things. Sit down with your wife and y'all be honest with one another because she's probably got some guilt too. She's probably upset too because she had a different picture also. And let's spend a minute crafting a new picture for what the next two months is going to look like. Just two months, 60 days. What's the next 60 days going to look like? I'm going to be able to take care of you here. I need to take a

day once a week and I'm going to make sure I've got to get back in the gym and take care of myself so that I can show up and take care of you. My sister's going to come sometimes. Sometimes I'm going to be able to go and you'll just call me on the cell phone if I need something. And let's get a picture of what Kara looks like. Make sure y'all are both on the same page. Both of y'all are working together. And my guess is when y'all do that, you're both going to relax a little bit. And one of the greatest gifts you can give a body that's struggling with autoimmune issues, that's struggling with an overactive inflammatory response is peace. It's peace. Appreciate you being honest, Chance. There are millions of men and women

in your same situation right now who are exhausted, tired. They can't say the words out loud. I'm sick of this because I love my partner, but I'm sick of this. So thanks for being brave. Now it's about what you do next.

We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work.

We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should

be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.

All right. All right, we are back, and we're going to go out to Oh Mandy, Oh Mandy in Nashville. What's up? How are you? You never heard that one before, have you? No, never. Hey, listen, my name rhymes with a lunch meet. So same team, same team. There you go. So what's up? Well, I just have a question. I'll preface by saying I've been married a while,

20 plus years. My husband and I, I mean, if I wrote down all the great things about him, there are many. He's amazing. He loves his family well. He loves the Lord. He's got like so much going for him. So I think over the years, I've just overlooked this one thing a whole lot. And now it's just come to a point where I'm finally realizing either I need to see it differently or he needs to change. I'm not sure, but he just has an anger issue. When I say that, um, he would never, we have two girls in college. He would never yell at me. He would never yell at them. And no one would ever, you know, fear that he just, he's very kind. So he's kind of, it's a complex thing. He's this kind, gentle bear on the inside,

but his office is in our home. And when he gets frustrated, he yells loudly. And it's to the point where when my girls were little, I would take them out or whatever. And but now that they're older and gone, I just it's it's a it's a thing. And I don't know if I just need to, like, suck it up and not worry about him yelling. But it's like I'll give you an example. Cause I started writing down a couple of times it's happened so that if I needed to go and figure out counseling just to help me know how to deal with it better or whatever. Um, but like, uh, right before Thanksgiving, my girls were home from college. We were cooking in the kitchen and, um, his office is right by the kitchen. He was

frustrated with some circumstances and just yelling off and on throughout the day. So we're in there like, you know, trying to have fun and cook for Thanksgiving. It just like makes everybody feel on edge and put the damper on everything. And I also just feel like I'm apologizing for his behavior too much. Try to find an excuse for it,

but they've grown up with it, with him in the home. And like I said, if they needed something, they could walk in his office and he's there for them. But if he's having a bad day, you just never know when it's coming and yelling. So one of my daughters just kind of like ignores it and acts like it's not happening. The other one, she's definitely been, I guess they've both been equally affected. They just deal with it differently. But she just, like, she can't stand it. And like me, and it just, I don't know, it will squash all of us a little bit. And so I don't know the best way to, he knows. I mean, I'll talk openly to him, and he just feels like he doesn't know what to do with the stress that he's under.

And he doesn't, he just doesn't know what to do with the stress that he's under. And he doesn't, he just doesn't know what to do with it. So then I felt bad, like, well, am I expecting too much for him not? But then I'm like, to me, it seems like a temper tantrum. So I don't want to, but you know. So Mandy, how, number one, thank you for your call. This affects a lot of folks. And so your willingness to be brave here is going to be helpful for folks. I asked this with some rarity. How honest can I be?

Oh, 100%. Are you positive? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yes, I seek truth. Some people say that and then I tell them and they're like, ooh, I didn't seek that. Yeah, yeah. The type of yelling you're describing is abuse and it is trauma. And the way you preface talking about this man that you love and that I believe is a good guy. I believe that he loves his kids. I believe he loves you. I believe he works hard to provide. Is the way when I've had behind closed doors

discussions with people who are physically abused, who are sexually abused, it always starts with the same. Okay, let me tell you this first. He's great. He's wonderful. He's so lovely. He's this and this and this, but there's just one thing. And so I need you to hear me say that the way you even preface this discussion is verbatim, how I have these conversations with folks who have what the world would say is more traditional abusive behavior. Here's why it's abusive. For your daughter's entire life, they have had to regulate, they have been responsible for the emotions of an adult male in their home. And they have had to learn how to control the adult emotions in the home because the adult in the house couldn't do it himself. And so what they have taken on themselves is this peacekeeping role, this, hey, we got to hide, or some kids take on, I don't care, I'm going to flex back, right?

Those are all adaptive trauma responses to an unstable emotional environment that they have felt like they have to control. And how this works downhill is they're going to find somebody else to marry that they feel like they have to emotionally regulate or they have to hide themselves completely. Even the question, and those two responses are relatively common either way. And you may notice that in both of your daughters and how genetics plays in, how personal experience plays in,

it can often baffle parents. Like the same dad is like, this kid's doing that and this one's doing that. It tends to be the same response. It just looks different, right? Or the root response is different. So most of us look at people we love and the word abuse, it makes us recoil. Like, no, he's not abusive. Yeah. If you find yourself apologizing because people in your home are uncomfortable by behavior, if you find yourself saying, hey, kids, let's just get out for a minute while dad does what he's doing. So begin to think through that lens and you'll, usually the light comes on and people go, oh my goodness. And here's one that is common. You know who you've begun to really be uncertain about? You. You have dealt with this for so long that you are willing

to go get counseling so that you can learn how to deal with somebody who's throwing a grown-up temper tantrum. So when you stop trusting you or you start outsourcing your trust to somebody else, that's a cornerstone of, hey, my body recognizes I'm not safe in this environment. And so who taught him this? Somebody showed him that this is how you respond to things. I don't, I don't exactly know his, um, I mean, his, I really, his dad is, um, definitely short tempered, but I don't see him yelling. Um, so I, so some dads, let me catch it. So some dads, they don't yell. They become radioactive. I call it the silent violence They are a You know if I touch that bear It will bite my arm off

And so everybody back away Or he says that one sentence And everyone knows This conversation is officially over Right And so that is the same physiological response We have when someone is yelling their head off. And when I say somebody learned this, let me say that in a better way.

Somebody told your husband that his thoughts and feelings didn't matter. They need to keep them to himself. Somebody told him that I don't care how you feel. You will sit down on your butt and you will shut your mouth while I – that's the picture he received. And it lodges in and lodges in until it absolutely explodes. And so when he's yelling, who is he yelling at? Well, that's just like – he just yells words. He's frustrated with a situation and then he just feels like the pressure is too much.

He's always had the excuse. I mean, I've been working the last few years, but before that, he was the primary provider. So just the pressure of all that, he would say, it would just get to him. He wanted to, but yet, if something's going wrong at work, it's just yelling. It's, you know, it's into the air. It's at the situation. So it's into the air, but it's into your nervous system. Right.

It's into the nervous system of your daughters. Right. So here's the lens I want to paint, right? And here's the thing. If he showed up here this afternoon and was like, you just told my wife I'm abusive, I want to paint, right? And here's the thing. If he showed up here this afternoon and was like, you just told my wife I'm abusive, I would say yes, I did. Yeah. Okay? If he came to see me and I was a licensed psychologist and he sat down with me or I was a licensed counselor, he sat down with me, I would tell him.

That the response you are to things that aren't going your way is how my six-year-old responds. And somehow there's a six-year-old still running the show for him. And I don't say that in a condescending, he's acting like a baby. But there's something, there's some six-year-old in him that's still trying to protect him. There's some seven or eight or nine-year-old that was told some things that he's still cycling in on. Okay. So a couple of things. I want you to start considering yelling as trauma.

And I think any sort of trauma response, you're going to have two. One that you've felt, and then there's going to come a moment as you process this, and there's going to be a wave of guilt that comes if it hasn't already, which is I'm my daughter's mom and I should have protected her. Right. Okay. Right. And if you sit on that for a minute, I bet it's hard to keep the tears back. Yep. And so that's where a gift you can provide your daughters and your husband is to say, I haven't been true

to myself and I haven't been true to my daughters for however many years. And daughters, I'm sorry that I didn't get involved earlier. Your dad was never going to hurt anybody here. I was safe and I didn't know what to do and I thought it was on me and it's not, this isn't okay. And here is where moving forward, you can't control his behavior, only he can. The only thing that you can control is you. So you need two things. You need a good boundary and you need choices. You're in now.

So the boundary is he needs to know in no uncertain terms that when yelling happens, you choose to disconnect. And here's why your choice is important. Not he's making you because that's what yelling does. It protects us. It's a seven or eight or nine year old's response to a radius blast. Everybody get out of my way. I'm overwhelmed. My ability to respond to this has been, it's overwhelmed. You take the power back and say, when you yell, I am choosing to leave. Because when you yell, you are choosing to tell me that you don't want me here. Okay? And so I want you to own that boundary because I don't think your husband wants to hurt you. But I also think he has chosen not to find different ways

to deal with things not going his way. You see how both of those are a choice? And what do you mean by disconnect? Like, where do you take, like, how far are you taking that? Because I automatically shut down when he does it, and he knows emotionally I'm just, like, checked out for a little while. Yeah, and so instead of, I just say, when you choose to do that, then you're choosing to not have dinner with me and

I'm going to go get dinner by myself. Okay. Or I'm choosing to go have friends. Not that I'm moving out unless you feel unsafe. You know what I mean? That's not what I'm saying at all. No, no, no. But I am, you But you have chosen to violate a boundary. Yelling's not okay. I don't feel safe in my home when you do that. My body turns into a raw pile of nerves when you do that. And I get sick to my stomach at how our daughters are going to meet men who think this is an okay way to respond to them, to their kids, to situations that are out of their control. And you are going to choose to leave. And here's what's going to happen. He's going to call your

bluff or he's just not going to think about it or it's going to come out. Actually, he's been doing this a long time. Okay. And again, I'm not hating on him at all. This is a behavior he's going to have to change and it's hard. It's probably been a lifelong thing. So it will happen. And then you will stick to your guns and he'll get mad at you for making that choice. And that's the moment of clarity. When he can choose to not hurt his wife, he can choose to learn different ways to deal with this. And it's going to be practice for him. It's going to be hard. And there's gonna be a lot of grace involved, but I've set my boundary here. Yeah. And my guess is, I've just heard the stories. I've talked to a few folks,

but the big stories are when you wanna stop yelling, you stop yelling. I will learn something else. I will go for a walk outside. I will get up and I will do 30 pushups. I will immediately turn my computer off and spin in my chair 10 times. I will immediately turn my computer off and spin in my chair 10 times. I will find a way.

But I'm gonna stop creating an unsafe space in my home. Can I ask you this? When you've talked to him about this, when you've said, I don't feel safe when you yell, what's his response? I mean, he's very, like he's always been very open to listening to anything I would have to say.

And I can say whatever to him, but he's like the last time I talked to him, he just said he really just doesn't know what else to do. He's like, I don't. And he is like this last two weeks, they're under more stress than a normal couple of weeks in his office. So it's just been, yeah, he just, he doesn't, he really doesn't know that there's another way, if that makes any sense. And I don't, and for, so for me, I've been like, am I, am I expecting too much?

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Where I want to see a man in that situation, be real brave, be, be the epitome of concrete strength of taking his power back, is recognizing that without meaning to, I'm hurting the three most important people on planet earth to me. And I don't want to hurt them anymore. So I have to be about learning new things.

That to me is the single strongest, somebody who can say the words, I was wrong and I need to do something different. And here's what that's going to look like. Wow. Well, that's a counselor. Well, that's getting with a couple of buddies. Call, tell him to call my show. I absolutely don't hate the guy. I think he's, um, get these under pressure. The whole world's under pressure right now. Right, right, right. And every time we're under pressure, we have a choice. We have a choice.

And what's hard for me is that you've told him your particular choice hurts us. And his response has been, I don't really know anything else. So there we go. And so the ball is in your court to draw a boundary and to be clear. And when I say clear, this isn't a yelling. This is gentle. This is quiet. This is, hey, the last two weeks has pushed me past where I'm comfortable anymore.

And the days of me apologizing for you and your behavior are over now. And here is my new boundary. When you yell, you're choosing, I'm choosing to disconnect and leave. And I'm gonna go have dinner by myself. And if yelling is more important than being with me, so be it.

Feel free to yell. But this, I'm not gonna be in the house for it anymore. I deserve to be safe. I deserve to feel safe. I deserve to not feel like you're gonna go off at any moment. And quite frankly, you deserve a to go off at any moment.

And quite frankly, you deserve a better avenue for dealing with this. The beauty is there's a lot of opportunities to heal from yelling. And I just need to tell you, Mandy, I'm so grateful for you and for your willingness to call in the show. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control,

like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their Home Buyer Edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress.

Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash deloney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back, Cracker Jacks. Let's go to Phoenix, AZ, and talk to Mrs. Shawna. What's up, Shawna? Hey, Dr. John. How's it going?

Man, we are rocking on to the break of dawn. How about you? I'm all right. Really, how's it going? Man, we are rocking on to the break of dawn. How about you? I'm all right. Really, how are you? I just heard about your octopus. Am I all right? Yeah, I guess the show went out today. Yeah, I'm getting there.

Something happened to my ribs, man. I'm still not breathing right, but I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I did get the estimate back on the Prius and the Prius is officially gone. Prius is dead. The Prius is gone. No more. So such it is. But thank you for asking. You're too kind. Heck of a way to start the day. I'll tell you what, that's exactly right. So what's up? Yeah. So the reason for my call is I'm really concerned about my husband because he has no friends. And when I say he has no friends, I mean he has zero, nobody that he gets together with, hangs out with, calls up, has a beer, dinner, whatever.

Nobody. The only person he talks to aside from me is his mom. Uh-oh. How old is he? Yeah. He is going to be 64 this year. Okay. Yeah.

So his mom... I don't think it's healthy. Has mom always been... Uh-huh. Yeah. Kind of like the jellyfish with the tentacles around everything. Yes. You, you've been married to two people. Most of your marriage. You know, that's exactly what my counselor has said. Two people in your marriage.

Yes. I'm making this up as I go. That's, that feels good. Um, wow. Oh man. So, so something's happened recently where you're concerned. What's going on? His mom is, you know, certainly, she's not going to be around forever. She's getting up there in age, and he can't even talk about it. You know, we've talked about, you know, wills and, and trust and all that. He won't even broach the subject period. So it's like,

it's going to happen someday. Yep. I'm the only one here for you. And you know, I just don't think it's healthy. So it's, it's absolutely, absolutely not.

And it's not the fact that he's a 65-year-old man who loves his mom and takes care of mom. That's not the unhealthy part. The unhealthy part is they're still acting as though she's 22 and he's six. Yeah. He just brought you along for that ride. Yeah. How long have y'all been married? I think the table, I think the table's turned.

I think he's the one that's 22 and she's six. Oh, okay. Because he just hovers over her. Wow. How's your marriage? Um, it's, we struggle. Yeah. Uh, we're in counseling.

Um, I think we've struggled for a long time, and I think the only reason that we're together is we're both committed to making it work. But you're not making it work. We're struggling. Yeah. But we're in counseling, and, you know, I think we're making some progress for the first time.

Good. So you're not committed to making it work. You're committed to not quitting. Because commitment to making it work means we're going to have super hard conversations and I'm going to, and he's going to do things that are really uncomfortable for us to grow. So it sounds like you're committed to not ending it, but you're getting there. And let me say this, the fact that he's willing to go is a real brave step. I don't know a lot of that courageous and that strong of men who at 65 will say, I need to go talk to somebody with my wife because we're not

okay. Good for him. That's good. And good for you for dragging him, kicking and screaming. And that was it. Yeah. Hey. It wasn't like he went willingly. Sure. So ultimately, this might be unfair and I don't care. I want you in your home and with your counselor to begin to discuss his relationship with his mom as an addiction. Because what she, not her, but his interaction with her, his relationship with her is allowing him to numb out and not deal with reality. And that's what addiction is. And so the only way to deal with addiction is to get off the drug. And so when we think about it in terms of relationship, we say, I can't leave mom hanging. I can't, mom has to, I have to, Right? So we make it about a bunch of tasks and a bunch of obligations and a bunch of shoulds.

If you spend a season looking at mom as heroin that is killing us, that is killing you, then now we're going to approach dealing with that relationship differently. And that might mean for a season that you are the one who's going to go over and make sure mom's gutters are, or you're going to call the guy that's going to fix the gutters. And you might be the one that goes over and talks to mom about the will. The conversation with the will is happening. If you don't want to do it, fine. I'm going to be the one, right? So that may be that you fill in the gap for a little while, which is absolutely not something you want to do with your other wife, right? But it may be the right. So that may be that you fill in the gap for a little while, which is absolutely not something you want to do with your other wife. Right. But it may be the way that he slowly weans himself off. But if he doesn't, man, Hey, when this call's over, hang on the line, I'm going to send you a copy of my new book on your past, change your future. And it's

Oh, you did? Well, I'm gonna send you another one. That way y'all can read it together, okay? But something about his past that says marriage is not safe. Somebody else isn't safe. This is become this interaction with mom that he totally controls. Interesting. Feels like a warm blanket for him. So what about your marriage is unsafe? Well, for him, his ex-wife walked out on him. Ta-da! Maybe this is all coming together. James, we should start a podcast.

Yeah, we should do this for a living. So he has the first most important woman, or the second most important woman in his life after mom walked out on him. Gone, right? So his body remembers that. And so I blamed mom for being a jellyfish and you corrected me and you corrected me correctly. So he wrapped his tentacles

around the first most important woman in his life and said, this will be it and then he wanted some romance and you can't kiss your mom so he got married again and I'm confident he loves you right how long have y'all been married? 13 years so y'all have been in it for more than a decade

but there's I would be stunned if there wasn't some side eye in the side of in the special parts of his brain that are just waiting for you to leave. Oh, I agree with that 100%. And what becomes self- He said that. Oh, he said that.

Okay, so here's what stinks about that is for whatever reason, those kind of thoughts become self-reinforcing. And when there's a part of his brain waiting for something to happen, then it leans one centimeter away from the blast or two inches away from the blast. And you feel that gap and you respond to that gap, whether you're conscious of it or not, with either being overly clingy or he just needs a space and I'm just going to go do this. And then you look up 10 years later and you've created a life,

he's created a life, and you're still sharing a bed. Exactly. And then you get that two inches apart, 2,000 miles away from each other. Yeah. And while he has no friends, I have a lot of friends.

Is he unpleasant to be around? I'm just being honest. Like if you invited a couple, some couples over to the house and their, you know, unsociable husbands showed up, is he fun to be around? Or did he go hide in the back room? No, he's fun to be around. I don't know that he, I mean, actually when there's other people around, I kind of look at him and I'm like, who are you? Cause you are not that person at home. But, um, I don't know that he's comfortable in that environment. I mean, I do get us together

with other couples, um, not frequently, but, um, he's fine. He seems fine in those situations. But the fact that he doesn't have friends leads me to believe, I mean, I don't know what's going on between him and other guys that he used to work with or whatever. So one of the great tragedies of our time is the loneliness of adult men. We have no, our dads didn't, I mean, our dads didn't have friends. Our dads went to work and worked themselves to death, literally, if you look at the data. And we don't have a picture of what adult male friendship looks like.

And so, and then, man, we create fantasy leagues and we create video games, we create streaming services, and now we really don't have to leave. And now making adult male friends as an adult is one of the physiologically scariest things our bodies can absorb because we want to belong. And that's not a want like, oh, I just want to belong. That's a core psychological, it's a physiological need. The other side of that, which is really hard to come to grips with is when our body recognizes that we're lonely, it goes to war against us. And so you either have to risk and lean over that edge and say, I know I need friends, or you die a painful, slow, incapacitating death and you take people around you with you.

And that's why you're calling. So. Yeah, I've tried to encourage him. Why don't you call someone? Go, go. Why don't you call someone? You know, he just feels like, I think there's more to it as well as far as the lack of, you know, it's like, well, they've got other things in their life. I'm a burden.

That they need to take care of. Yeah, exactly. I'm a burden. They don't want to hang out with me. Or we're going to get to hole five of the golf course, and I don't know what we're going to talk about. So I'm just, let's just stay here. Or I talked to one guy who was like, man, why would I go skiing? I'm just going to get up, water skiing. I'm just going to get up. I'm going to get my swim trunks on and go get the

boat in the water. And then we're going to drive around and get all hot. And then we end up back and then we're going to get tired. I'm going to end up in the same chair that this tonight. Why don't I just stay here? And if you're running low, if you're lonely, if you're depressed, if you are, if relationships have hurt you in the past, that has a logic to it. It makes sense. It's true. We're just going to end up right back here. And unfortunately, you end up missing all of life, whether it's movement, whether it's outdoors, whether it's nature, whether it's companionship and friendship, etc. The only way I've seen this thing shift is one of two ways. One is it's by association. One of the partners, so in this

case, you, says, hey, from this point forward, every Friday night, we're having these couples over. And just truth be told, my wife did that to me. I've had some deep bouts of profound loneliness in my life and what really stinks about that is i've got Men and women in my life who I love and i've been friends with for years and years and years But I have a tendency to isolate myself I just get home and i'm tired and I just loop a blanket of distraction around me and then I call it good So she said we're having people over every weekend forever for the rest of our lives. And so what I had to come to terms with was there's always gonna be people in my house. And so I can make peace with it or I can go to war with it. And I decided to make peace with it. And now I, I miss it dearly. That's number one. Number two was I had a stark, oh my goodness. It's John C-A-C-C-I-P-P-O, Cassioppo. Is that how you say it?

He wrote the book called Loneliness. And I read that book as a scientist. And I remember it was like reading a book about the damages of smoking or reading a book about, you know, particular nutrition stuff. It was a bellwether moment. I bought it for multiple people in my life, but I read it and realized, oh, if you don't do this, you're going to die. It's going to kill you. And it's going to be real unpleasant way to die too, by strokes and cancer and heart disease and things like that. And so those two things, the reality of that data helped me to change. And my wife's commitment to, I'm just going to surround you with people. You're going to get

over this, or you're just going to have to go sit under our bed while the house is full of people who love you. And I opted for number two. And I'm super, super grateful that she leaned in that way. And I've got friends who won't let me go either, and vice versa. it sounds like... You've got that extra thing where you have friends. And that's kind of one of the reasons that I reach out to you, because in listening to your show for so long, I know that you value

friendship. It's everything. And it's sad that he has, and his mom doesn't either. Yeah, it's a model. He doesn't have a picture for it. And there's sad that he has, and his mom doesn't either. Yeah, it's a model. He doesn't have a picture for it. And there's a few men in my life, like Todd and John and Trevor and Craig and others, that they taught me what friendship looked like. Ryan and Caleb and Chris, these guys have been in my life for years and years, for decades and decades.

They taught me what it looks like. They kept showing up, right? And so it's hard when you don't have that. That's where your influence in his life will be big. And a counselor's influence in his life will be big. The challenge with trauma, especially when it comes to relational trauma, whether it's any type of sexual abuse or physical abuse

or any type of abuses, it weaponizes the very thing that keeps us alive. It weaponizes a relationship. So somewhere in there, relationships equal scary, relationships equal pain. And until he decides I'm going to make a move past that, he's going to continue to choose safety, which makes total sense. I get it. But yeah, mom's going to go and all of a sudden yet another important woman in his life is going to be gone. And you see that car wreck happening in slow motion, right? Yeah. Yeah. So number one, he's lucky to have you.

Like the number of men who would call my show and be like, dude, I wish my wife would tell me to go golfing or fishing or something. Good for you. Good for loving him so much that you know that he needs other people. That's amazing. Number two, I would make a commitment to the house is going to be full of people. And I see you, husband, come alive when we do this. And so we're going to do it. And then the third thing is, I would be really clear in your counseling sessions and your counseling meetings to talk about his loneliness,

your desire for him to have friends, your commitment to put money out there or time out there, whatever that looks like. And let's be really clear about the data, the data of loneliness. So let's do this. We're gonna take a break real quick. We're going to come back and I'll run through a little bit of that data with you.

Stay on the line. Sean, we're going to send you another copy of the book that you can read. Give him and y'all can read it together. And man, I'm so grateful that you called. Let us know how this thing plays out because I'm interested. And my hope is that he gets a couple of grumpy old men that will join him in whatever adventures he wants to go on here for the last 20, 30 years of his life. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn

the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. Let me follow up on that last call about loneliness here. So I hear the word lonely over and over again from all people, all walks of life. And we know loneliness is pervasive. And we've even started to hear terms like the loneliness epidemic. I've said things like that. Beneath that, we live our lives.

We set them up as though we don't need anyone else. And as though every social trend we have is how can you be self-reliant? How can you do these things by yourself? And we've created this myth over the last 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years, 100 years that we believe we can save ourselves by ourselves and we are all that matters. From the time we're kids, we're taught the story that we're responsible for all of it, everything, our personal growth, our development, our attitude, our grades, our money. And here's the thing, we are. Personal responsibility is huge, and we have thrown that out the window. But those things don't make us okay. They don't make us well. And when you

chase personal growth, development, fix your attitudes, you try to get straight A's, you try to make a bajillion dollars, and you try to do everything by yourself, you get to the finish line of whatever goal you have, and the goal moves. And the goal moves because you're unanchored. You're untethered.

The goal's untethered. It's unanchored. Why? Why are you even doing this? And so, yes, we have personal responsibility. But as you've heard me say, I'm trying to craft a new third way. It's both and. It's personal responsibility and you have to have relationships. It's both. It's both. These things that we get, that we accomplish, we achieve, don't make us well. They're hollow.

We will die. You will die. Our brains and bodies are literally wired for connection. We need people to know, love, protect, mate, work with, all these things. But because we can't be well alone, you've heard me say this a thousand times, loneliness is more deadly than smoking. It's associated with personality disorders, impaired cognitive performance, and premature death. Premature death. Now, think of the alternative here. Joy, playing, having fun, having people to cry with, to laugh with,

to lift with, to golf with. If you're a golfer, God help you. To fish with, to hunt with, whatever it is, to drive cars with, to play Legos with. I don't care. I'll even say to play Fortnite with, you Fortnite people, right? Deep, healthy relationships can heal us from physical pain, from loss, from trauma. And I know that sounds silly because I want a pill for my trauma. I was just talking to somebody yesterday

who lost their wife, somebody who I love dearly. And it was just returned from an event where it was folks who were just dealing with loss of their spouse. And this person's super brave, super strong. But we talked about it was just being with other people who were hurting and saying the story out loud. How is that healing? It just is. Grief demands a witness. And when you give it one, your body begins to go,

oh, I'm not alone. If you want to be well and you want your life to be a little bit better tomorrow than it is today and a lot better down the line, set down the story that you can save yourself, that you can achieve yourself, that you can win yourself, that you can crush it and kill it in yourself to some sort of wellness, to some sort of peace. Let me say that again, peace. You got to get connected in real relationships. And so, hey man, this pitches right into, I got a whole chapter on this in the new book. Man, the story that you can save yourself is just one of the stories that I just, I dig way into in the new book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future,

covers trauma, connection, everything. And most importantly, what do I do about all this stuff, right? What do I do? Remember, if you pre-order this book today, if you pre-order the book today, you get over 300 bucks. You know, I can't put a dollar amount on it.

It's different states, it regulates, but hundreds of dollars of free stuff. Most importantly, you get a month of free therapy from BetterHelp. Our friends at BetterHelp believe in this book and they believe in you and they stepped up. Man, it's time to stop being lonely. And if you want to step by step, here's how you do that.

Pre-order the book, man. I'd love for you to check it out, check it out, check it out. All right, as we wrap up today's show, we're going to go with, I was going to say the godmother and the godfather, the one and only Nina Simone off the Silk and Soul record. Song goes like this. I wish I knew how it would feel to be free. I wish I could break all the chains holding me. I wish I could say all the things I should say. Say them loud, say them clear for the whole round world to hear. I wish I could share all the love that's in my heart,

remove all the bars that keep us apart. I wish you could know what it means to be me. Then you'd see and agree that every man should be free. I wish I could give all I'm longing to give. I wish I could live like I'm longing to live. I wish I could do all the things that I can do. Though I'm way overdue, I'd be starting anew

and that's what we're doing here. We're starting anew. We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode. So my dad, he had an affair. That divorce wasn't your fault, Nolan. You'd believe me when I say that? I want to believe it,

but sometimes it's hard. I know. And there's a 12-year-old in there that's still trying to figure out what in the world you did to split them up. Like, she'll have thoughts telling her to hurt herself, but she's like, I don't want to do that. The university doesn't really offer what they say they're going to offer. I'm angry on your behalf that anyone would ever tell an undergraduate student, hey, just check on him. If she sees someone that looks like him, it's the same thing.

She just kind of goes into this panic. Tell me about sexual intimacy. Y'all good? Oh, it's fantastic. Sorry. Oh, we party, brother. No, don't apologize. It's awesome.