The Dr. John Delony Show - I Feel Like a Nagging Wife to my Passive Husband

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode John responds to emails about workplaces requiring the vaccine My husband is a great man but I am the driving force behind everything in our lives. Necessary Endings - Dr. Henry Cloud Our daughter has OCD. She won’t tell anyone and she won’t take medication. How can we help her get help? My sister just experienced a bitter divorce, and she has asked me to help her with a symbolic funeral as part of her healing. While I understand the why, I don’t understand the how. What sort of things should we do or say? Lyrics of the Day: "God of Wine" - Third Eye Blind   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp dreamcloudsleep.com/delony Conversation Starters Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+     tags: workplace/career, boundaries, culture/current events, marriage, anger/resentment/bitterness, relationships, OCD   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up, we're going to talk about what do you do if your boss tells you you got to get the vaccine to keep your job. We also talk to a wife whose husband is just not engaged. And we talk to a dad whose daughter is struggling and he doesn't know what to do next. Stay tuned. What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. One of the top thousand greatest podcasts ever made. Are we in the top thousand you think of all time, James? Absolutely. I think so. Top thousand? Surely we can crack the top thousand.

I'll pull the numbers and let you know. Kelly's like looking at him like, there's no chance we're top 1,000. No chance. Maybe top 11,000. In the mental health in Middle Tennessee in the afternoon slot. Booyah! Oh, we're in the afternoon now? Yeah, there's no such thing as that.

Thanks for ruining the illusion for our podcast listeners. It's like 4.30 a.m. They're starting their morning routine. They're starting off with a good dose of relational mental health help, and then you're like ruining it. It's cool, man. How are you?

You good? I was going to go into a rant about how time is actually an illusion, and it's not. Dude, I've been reading a book called Soul for Happy by Mogadoc. It's a chapter on time that was...

I don't have my mind blown a lot. Mind blown. It's all good, though. Hey, welcome to Dr. John Deloney Show. Top 11,000 podcasts ever created. We're up there somewhere. So glad you're here. Mental health, relationships, all of it. We're so glad you're with us. If you want to be on the show, give us a call 1-844-693-3291.

It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K, johndeloney.com slash ask. Fill out the form and send it to Kelly real quick a couple of shows ago I asked people to write me a poem and mail it to me number one whoa I got a lot of poems in number two some of you

need to go to betterhelp.com slash Deloney because you're not okay you're not okay things You're just, you're not okay. Things aren't good in your heart, and they are coming out in your poems. Some of you are hilarious and awesome, and so I'm going to do a segment in a couple of shows reading some of these. But a bajillion of you do not know this. It's an incredible new tool.

I know it's new, and so some of you all don't know what it is or how it works. It's new. And so some of y'all don't know what it is or how it works. It's this, it's bizarre. If it's a new computer technology called the Googles and you go to google.com and put in Ramsey solution address, because some of you can't do that. You emailed Kelly. I think the total is 17 million and six of you emailed Kelly and said, Hey, what's the address to Ramsey solutions. So for those of you who are jogging, hey, what's the address to Ramsey Solutions? So for those of you who are jogging right now listening to this podcast, but you happen to have a pen and paper on you, it's 1011 Reams Fleming Boulevard, Franklin, Tennessee, 37064, R-E-A-M-S hyphen, because we're progressive in that way. Reams Fleming. R-E-A-M-S hyphen.

There's no hyphen. There's not? No. I was trying to hyphenate it. There we go. I think it'll find its way here anyway. It'll find its way. Franklin, Tennessee, 37064.

I feel like this is a TV show from the early 90s where you read the P.O. box address to mail a postcard at the end of a Nickelodeon show. What McGruff? Scruff McGruff, Chicago, Illinois, 60652. Whoa. And by the way, on the boards today is Good Will Hunting, who knows all the numbers from his childhood.

Way to go, Nick. That's incredible. So keep sending your poems. We're going to have a poetry-themed show, I guess. They're incredible. Some people are sending them. And some of you who need mental health help, you know who you are. All right, so before we take a call today, this email, I've been getting this email a lot.

So I want to address this right out of the gate. Here's one. My wife and I had our third baby in March, and she's still breastfeeding. She just got noticed that her work is mandating the vaccine and she has to let them know by the end of August if she's getting it or not. And then has to be vaccinated by the end of September. If not, she'll lose her job. Next one is somebody who's working for federal, state, local government, that they are forcing them to get the vaccine. They're subjected to constant testing, constant masking.

Where do I draw the line that says enough is enough and take another job? I don't want to. I want to walk out married with debt and a mortgage. So, and this is two of a bajillion of these, right? Lots of concern. My buddy Ken Coleman, he's getting them on his show. He talks about career. Lots of people calling in,

writing in, asking. We are working somewhere where the vaccination is being mandated. And we don't, we're not anti-vaxxers, not anti-COVID. We all of a sudden

are alarm bells about, hey, you're not free or ringing. We're scared and we don't know what to do. What should we do? What should we do? So anytime I'm faced with a situation like this, so I'm going to take COVID out of the equation. We're going to move it over here.

I can't solve that question for you. I can't answer that question for you. That's between you and your doctor and your personal conscience and all those things. I've talked about my opinions on that on this show. What I can drill down here is what you can control and what you can't. And at the end of the day, any decision, and I'm intentional about my language there, any decision, anytime you choose to worry, get angry, fight, claw, go to war against something that you can't control, you are choosing to have misery. Now, there are justice moments in history. No question about it. There are moments you head to the streets. I get that. I support that. I love that about this

country. I love it. I love it. There are moments you write a letter. There are moments you go knock on somebody's door. There are moments you say enough's enough. I get that. Totally get that. But if you work for somebody and they tell you as a condition of working here, you have to tuck your shirt in. I've had that told to me before. office by two professional employees that said, we're going to come check on what you were wearing and we're going to come by and see because we don't think you dress professional. We think you should dress more professional. And so we're going to come check on you. I've had people tell

me, I got to cut my hair. I've had people tell me that these shoes aren't good. You need to wear those shoes. This is all across the span of my career. Hey, you've got to tuck your shirt in has been the most. I don't like tucking my shirt in. It makes me feel weird. And I've had that over and over. And here's the deal. Every time that's happened,

I've been working for somebody else. And it's their place where they work. And so I've got the option of deciding, am I going to tuck my shirt in or am I going to get another job? In some seasons in my life, like one of these emails here, I owed a whole bunch of money in student loans. I didn't have another choice. I was frozen. I'd created a life for myself where I was out of control. I couldn't control tomorrow because I had a bunch of strings attached to everything, right?

Now, if Dave came in and said, you have to do this, I'm in a situation where I would smile at him and say, I'm not going to, Dave's always trying to get me to wear pink shoes. He's not really. But if he did, and I said, no, I wear black shoes. I would be a weird line to draw, but whatever. Now I don't owe anybody any money. I would leave, right? I would leave. So whether it's the vaccine, whether it's where you're going to cut your hair, whether it's, you have to be on call 24, 7, 365. I was a finalist for one job that said you have to be on call 24-7, 365. I was a finalist for one job that said you have to live within 10 miles of the organization. It was a university and they said,

you've got to live this close because if something happens in the middle of the night, you've got to be able to get here. And when I was looking for houses, the houses I found were 15 or 20 minutes away, not 10 minutes away. All that to say is this, drill down your options into what can you control and

what can you not control. If you really believe this is an infringement on your rights, which it might be, if you really believe if I put this vaccine in my body, I'm going to get sick, I'm going to, I'm fill in the blank. And you think I can't work here anymore and quit. If you're mad that somebody's telling you what to do and you're frustrated they're telling you what to do, but you're going to get the vaccine anyway, exhale, write it down and say, this sucks and I'm annoyed by it and then let it go.

Because talking about it, texting about it, emailing about it, raging about it, emailing about it, raging about it, scrolling on Instagram, it's going to make you nuts. And right now, the vaccine, the COVID, all this stuff is pulsing through people's veins. So I want to back out as far as we can and say, this has been happening to all of us in all of our jobs for a long, long time, probably forever. Unless you have a business that you are the sole owner of. And even then you're subjected to county codes and local ordinances and federal ordinances and whatever. All of us do things every day that we probably wouldn't

otherwise do if we didn't have people telling us what to do? This is just a long line. It is different because you're asking us to put something in our body. And I will say that's different. I get that. That feels more invasive. Is that fair, James? That this one feels more invasive? Yeah, that's just a hot button issue. I feel like I'm minimizing at the same time I am kind of minimizing it.

It's the same principle, but yeah, I mean, injecting something in your body and tucking your shirt in are not the same thing, yeah I mean putting injecting something in your body and tucking your shirt in are not the same thing but the principle principles are the same my boss is saying

you have to do this if you want to work here cool I do get that it's a little bit bigger deal it's a lot bigger deal putting something in your body and plus

what if it has secret metal in it and they're going to track you what all this I don't know what all that kind of conspiracy stuff

but at the end of the day the question to be asked is are you going to track you. What all this, I don't know what all that kind of conspiracy stuff. But at the end of the day, the question to be asked is, are you going to do this or are you not? And if you're not, I refuse to do it. Then you've made your decision. Be at peace with your decision. And then immediately start looking for where you're going to go next. What are you going to do? Where are you going to work? What are you going to, what situation are you going to put yourself in where this isn't going to happen again? Or if you're going to do it, exhale, choose not to carry anger and rage and frustration and pissed off. Don't carry that with you because you're choosing to poison your relationship with your spouse, with your friends, with your kids over anger. Even if it's righteous anger, if you're going to do it anyway, just don't. Just get it done and then move on with your life. I don't for one bit, not for one bit. I've left

two jobs in my life because I said, y'all are asking me to do something that I can't do. I've done it twice and it was hard and it was messy and it was hard. It was hard, but it was one of my lines. And so I've been there. If this is your line, man, high five them. Make them. Be respectful. Treat everyone with dignity. Walk out with your head held high.

Give notice. Be a good person in this transition. Retain your dignity, even when those around you are not. And control what you can control and let the rest go. Is that fair, James? I don't know. I don't want to minimize it.

Kelly, is that fair? I mean, I don't want to under-dramatize it, but... No, I think that's the gist of it. As a private, you know, as a company has the right,

if you don't want to work there, you have the right not to work there. So, it's just a decision you have to make. Yeah. But, like you said, just make the decision and then move on. Yeah.

Just go into rage. Yeah. And don't gripe about it with all your coworkers over and over and over and over and over and create dissension where you work. Yeah. Just make your personal decision. Stand tall. Be a person of character wherever you land. And then walk away.

So that's my thoughts on that. I know it's hard. I know it's messy. I know people are being, feel like they're being forced into a, backed into a corner. Some of you are, and I get that when it comes to man, medical issues, we're breastfeeding now and we're being forced to do this. That's really tough. That is really tough, right? Cause you're talking about some major unknowns there. And I absolutely get that. Come to some peace about a decision, make your decision,

and then put the other stuff down, okay? And if nothing else, let this stand as a reminder. The fewer tethers you have, like debt, like unhealthy relationships, like bad unhealthy relationships, like bad, unhealthy habits. If you are actively creating a life that is healthy, that is safe, that you are in control of more things than you are not, if you don't owe anybody any money, when these moments come up, you know, it's like Dave Ramsey says about having an emergency fund. Your car engine can blow up. And if you have a six month emergency fund, it's annoying. You're like, I don't want to

go buy a car. Or if you don't have an emergency fund and you got six figures to student loan debt, it's a tragedy. I don't know how I'm going to eat, right? Same issue, just two different responses. And so live a life, work hard to have people in your life that when tough things come up, you can sit down and walk through it with, have someone to walk through it with you. Build a life where you don't owe anybody any money. Work hard to get there.

Work hard, hard, hard, right? Read new books, exercise, eat right, sleep, have good relationships. I'm just gonna keep talking over and over. This is one of those moments that we all go, oh, this is why. This is why. Right? All right.

That's enough of that. Let's go to Melissa in Salt Lake City. Hey, Melissa, what's going on? Hi, John. How are you? I'm fantastic. How about you? I'm doing well.

Thank you. Awesome. So what's up? How can I help? So I would love to ask you a question and then I'd love to give you a little bit of context. Cool. Do me a favor. Talk right into the phone. I'll make sure I don't miss this. Right. Right in the phone. Is that better? Perfect. Yes.

Okay. I am dealing with some feelings of how do I help with these feelings? Like I am the driving force behind my marriage and my family. So I have a wonderful husband. He is a great dad. He provides for our family, pitches in. He's had a fairly smooth life and it's been pretty mapped out for him. And he's just kind of checked things off. When it comes to goals, when it comes to building relationships,

when it comes to personal improvement, these are not things that cross his mind. And I feel like, especially when it comes to wanting my kids to have strong, healthy relationships with him, I feel like I'm the one that's leading, I'm directing, I'm pushing. It turns into what feels like nagging, feels like not having a team. And I just, I get exhausted of the feeling of feeling like I have to take care of everyone and everything. I don't, I don't want to feel like I'm fooling relationships

because that inauthenticity, however you say that word, will be felt, I don't know if that makes sense. But I guess the best way for me to describe it is that he's the boat and he is just cruising along through life on the water. And I am the propeller and I am spinning like crazy to get forward momentum and it's just unseen so i i would love your thoughts and opinions but i also feel a little bit silly calling about this because he is such a wonderful man and he when i've listened to your show before and the crisis that people have in their lives, it just makes me feel a little, I don't know, bashful, I guess. I don't think that at all. I'm grateful that you called. Everybody's got holes in their boat, to use your analogy.

Some of them are huge. Some of them are small, but the boat is filling up with water yeah and sometimes when there's a giant hole in the boat it's actually better because you got to deal with it right now what you're describing is the birthplace of resentment and you've heard me say over and over that's the end of everything or more importantly um or more negatively have whatever word you want to use this is how you run into somebody at work and they're a super go-getter and they're kind of funny and they laugh when you make a joke and y'all go ahead and grab lunch together and suddenly two years down the road, you found

yourself in a position like, oh no. Right. Yeah. That's where this starts right here. Great guy. Awesome show. It wouldn't even occur to him to cheat on anybody. It's not going to occur to him to do anything because he's just doing what he does. Right. Yeah. And am I on the right track? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So how long have y'all been married? 13 years. See, you're right there.

Okay. How old are your kids? The oldest is 11 and the youngest is two. We have four of them. 11 to two. Uh-huh. So you've been pregnant for of them. 11 to 2. Uh-huh. So you've been pregnant for a decade. Exactly, yes.

I have had a decade of pregnancy and childbirth. Wow. Okay. And no more. Four and no more is our motto. Season has passed. Four and no more. Ours was two and I'm done with you. James, you. Four and no more. Ours was two and I'm done with you.

James, you had four and no more too. Have you sat down and told him this stuff? I have many times. Talk to me about what that's like. Let me back it up. Let's don't even do that question yet. Where do you want to go? where do you want to go where do i want to go because here's what i here's what i'm afraid is happening and i've got no context for this call i'm just i've heard your voice a thousand times

and you say delona you're. You're crazy on this one. Okay. His life is exactly how he drew it up. He has an incredible wife. He's got four healthy, wonderful kids. He's got an 11-year-old, a 2-year-old, and everyone in between. He's got a job he goes to, and he comes home. The house is there. Things are just rocking and rolling.

My fear is you just want to go for the sake of going. you don't even know where you just want to go and it's that pent-up energy that's going to get everybody in trouble because it's got it's not directed anywhere does that make sense yeah so are you just feeling this this 13 year same guy, you got four kids, and you're missing romance and excitement and the mystery and the, ah! Is that what it is? I think there's definitely a bit of that. Okay, so what else is it? Yeah, I think it's also just feeling like I see improvements to make in myself, and I see improvements, and I see things that I value.

I value having relationships with my kids and putting in the effort to have that kind of relationship and to practice what I preach. Hey, your phone's breaking up. Can you go to a place? This is super important. Can you go to a place where you get a good signal? All right.

No, you're good. Is that okay? Great, perfect. Much, much better. Okay. I guess I'm just kind of, there is a little bit of like the stagnant, I guess, that I can feel of just like,

okay, I just need something. I just need a little spark. I need just a little bit of like this stagnant, I guess, that I can feel of just like, okay, I just need something. I just need a little spark. I need just a little something. But then there's also the feeling of I have these values that I try to show in my actions of valuing my kids and valuing personal improvement through my health and through, you know, physical activities and putting in effort. And I value having a relationship with him and the effort feels so one-sided. Okay. Is this covert for he's gained a lot of weight? You're not attracted to him anymore? Oh no, absolutely not. Okay. If anything, I've done that. So what, what is get to the root? Like there's something you're, you're so kind

and you're so diplomatic. Get to the root. You're so kind and you're so diplomatic. Get to the root. Oh, gosh. Have you ever cheated on him? No, never. Are you thinking about it? No. Are you bored to death?

No. Are you scared about tomorrow? I mean, what is it i think it's just feeling like i'm the only one that's putting any effort in this relationship it's feeling like what's the effort towards because i keep hearing conversations about energy yeah the effort is probably towards him having a relationship with me, feeling like I have to be the one that instigates everything. I have to instigate like, hey, it's been a while since we've been on a date or hey,

it's been a while since you've had one-on-one time with each of the kids. And hey, maybe we should like plan a family trip to spend time with each other. And Hey, maybe we should spend less time on our phones so that our kids can see our eyes when we're around them. And Hey, let's maybe, and it's just like this constant initiation that I have to put forth where I almost feel like this. I don't know if it's discontent or if it's just this drive to improve. No, you're dealing with it.

That he lacks. Listen, Melissa, that's what I was looking for. When you listen to this call, go back and listen. That's the voice I was looking for. That's the voice of a woman who's married to a depressed man. A man who's checked out. A man who doesn't feel like he's got a purpose in his own house. He's got no mission in his house.

He's got a wife that runs everything, that tells everybody where they need to be. The picture. Y'all a family that gets like family photos? Every once in a while, yeah. When we have a new kid. See? And do you tell everyone where they're going to stand?

Yeah. You do. I usually tell everybody what they're going to wear and how to behave. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah.

So what you are doing is you have a very clear picture of what family is, what life is, what husband looks like, what kids are going to look like, how they're going to talk, how they're going to act, how much sex we're going to have, what our bodies are going to look like. You've got very clear pictures. And for 13 years plus however many years you dated this guy, you've just been the picture person. Yeah. person yeah and he hasn't for a decade and a half now he's just going along with your photo yeah and over time he's checked out completely yeah he's out and so he's getting his needs met

through a phone or through his work relationships or through his girlfriend. And I'm being provocative here on purpose. I'm not saying he's cheating on you. But he's getting his needs met somewhere else because the needs at his home are being met by you. Right? And then the only way you think you can rattle the cage is complaining, nagging, blaming, threatening, right? These things that you feel like you're rattling the cage

and all they do to somebody who's checked out is it further reinforces they made the right decision to be unplugged. And the difference being what is caring and listening and contributing support? What does that look like? And so you said you've talked to him a lot about it. Put me in the seat. You guys are out on

a marriage retreat. Just you two. Y'all took one together. Mm-hmm. And you sit down with him and don't say, hey, I need somebody who's going to do this. I want this. I want this. If you ask him, how's your life?

Do you still like me? Do you like our kids? What would his answer to those questions be? It would be yes, but he probably would have never thought about it before I asked. And so what he needs to know is that that's an expectation. I need you to think about these things. Does he know that? Yeah, that's the perpetual argument we have.

And how is that an argument? Like, so for instance, here's what I'm getting at. I was able, I'm able to go to bed with their dishes in the sink. I just am. It's a spiritual gift, whatever.

I can just go to bed with their dishes in the sink. I just am. It's a spiritual gift, whatever. I can just go to bed. My wife cannot, right? They need to be, the place needs to be clear. And I could walk past them. And it wasn't until she was able to say, I need you to come see this. This weighs on my heart that I went, oh gosh, well then I can just help with that.

Does that make sense? It was, I just wasn't seeing it. Now that you have said, this matters to me, and should you have to tell a dad to put his phone down? No, but that's the world we're in. So you did that, right? Yeah. He's checked out.

And so when you say, I need you to plug back in, I need your phone to go in a drawer, because right now your kids believe you love that little digital box more than them what does he say it happens he's willing and it just doesn't last have you told him here is my here is my either or statement either you put your phone away and connect with your kids or I'm going to take them to mother and father's house. We're going to get out of here. Have you done that? No. Because you keep telling me he's a great, wonderful, awesome, wonderful guy. And then you told me the things he's not involved with. And that doesn't say great and awesome and wonderful.

Right. If you mean great and awesome and wonderful because he's peaceful and doesn't hit anybody, he doesn't yell at anybody, that's the basics. You're not supposed to hit or yell or scream. Right? Yeah. That doesn't make you wonderful. That's baseline.

Right. Why won't, you know him. Why won't he engage? Yeah. Why? Is he scared of you? Is he annoyed by you you is he not attracted to you what's the deal i think you know what is it i think i think it's just because it's easier it's easier just to let me take care of everything do you let him take care of things letting me take care of i know but do you let him do you let him take care of things? Letting me take care of things. I know, but do you let him? Do you let him choose vacations?

Do you let him choose dinner places? When you say, I want to get photos taken, we're all going to wear our white little sailor outfits. And he says, can we just wear a regular clothes? Do you go, that's cool. Or do you say, no, this is what we're wearing. If he put the effort into thinking about a vacation and thinking about dinner places, I asked, yes, I would let him. Why doesn't he date his wife anymore? That's my question.

Because it takes effort. It can't, it can't be that because he had a lot of effort when he chased you down. Is that right? No. He never has? Okay, then. So now you're mad that he's six foot tall and you married a six foot tall guy. Yeah. Like, it sounds like he didn't trick you. No. It sounds like you hoped this would just

quote unquote work itself out. Or somehow by osmosis, he would just transform into the guy that you so badly want him to be. I just, yeah, probably. I think, I think before just, it was just easier. It was easier. You know, I could go on for six, five, six, seven years and, and be okay taking care of everything. And then probably the last two years has kind of whacked me over the head with a bat. And all of a sudden it was like, I don't have it anymore to take care of everything anymore. And so I need to feel like I'm not, I'm the only one.

I need to feel like I'm not the only one putting only one. I need to feel like I'm not the only one putting in the effort. I'm not the only one that cares about what the relationships with our kids looks like. I'm not the only one that cares about the relationship and our marriage and what it looks like. So I'm going to break your heart, Melissa. Okay. Dang it. Don't do that. No, I'm just kidding. Go ahead. It's not going to change. No. It's not. Yeah. This is who you married, and you've known that for 15 years.

Now, do I think he could change? Oh, my gosh, absolutely he could. He absolutely could. But your conversations, you're nagging, you're threatening, you're complaining. It's not. It's not doing anything. And so I think we're at a moment now in your family's history where you've got to decide what's the next move for you. Have you gone to see somebody by yourself just to talk through this?

Yes. I've been seeing somebody for postpartum depression for the last year or so. Okay. And this has come up, and we have discussed this, yes. And what did they say to do? A little bit of the same thing of you can't control the relationships that he has with the kids. That's not your place. You know, you just can't. I can't control because if I force relationships

or if I force it, the kids would potentially get old enough and will say, well, that dad didn't really want to. That was mom forcing him. Well, and beyond that, you're going to be exhausted and heartbroken the whole time, right? Because none of it will be real yeah right so here's what i want you to do at the end of the day it's the old dr henry cloud quote that i love which is he's going to have to

get some problems and he doesn't have any there is no reason in his life other than integrity and character, which he doesn't have, to get involved with this kid's life. To do the hard, crazy work of having four kids in 10 years and rediscovering who his wife is, redating her, deciding I'm going to level into this family, support this family, not just financially, but emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, all those things, right? I'm going to be connected in this thing. He's going to have to get some problems and he's never had them. He's never had to.

He doesn't even know what that is. I want you to get a book by Dr. Henry Cloud called Necessary Endings. Okay. And I'm not telling you to end your marriage in any way, shape, form, or fashion. Yeah. I'm telling you, you are making yourself clinically insane by trying to close the gap that has always been there. Yeah. Does that make sense? Absolutely. And at the end of the day, your choices are, I'm going to love this. I'm going to love those kids like they've never been loved before ever. And I'm not going to, I can't get into his, I'm going to have to accept how he's chosen

to parent. Or you're going to have to go do something else. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yep. But just yelling into the Grand Canyon isn't solving that problem. There's either acceptance of it and you have to work for the rest of your kids lives to not fall into resentment or you're gonna have to sit down with your husband and say here's my or what statement

you're gonna get involved you're gonna put the phone away you're gonna we're gonna learn how to love each other again we're gonna start practicing desire we're gonna go to marriage retreats we're gonna learn how to love each other again. We're gonna start practicing desire. We're gonna go to marriage retreats. We're gonna go to marriage counseling. We're gonna go back and remember what it's like to love each other. And I'm not carrying the weight of this family anymore. We are gonna carry the weight of this family.

And I'm asking you to learn a whole new skillset. And I've seen it happen over and over and over again. I know he can, if he wants to. Here's where this sucks though is it's a risk because he might look at you and say no yeah right and in fact in many ways he has right yeah because you've asked him over and over and over and over is that fair yep no I totally get it. Sorry.

You hit the nail on the head when you talk about being connected, not just financially, because we've had that conversation of you are more than a paycheck that puts a roof over our head. And, and, and. You've got to ask yourself, have I treated him like anything other than a paycheck? Does his opinions matter in this house? And so maybe you all go out and you have a retreat and say, I'm looking down the road. We have a two-year-old and 11-year-old. We've got eight years left for our oldest one to be here at our home. We have 16 years left for our youngest one to be in our home.

We're done now. We're four and out. I want to build. I want to sit down and map out what the next 10 years is going to be, and I'm done driving. I've driven for 15 years. I'm out. I'm not driving anymore.

I'm handing you the keys. And here's what that looks like in my head. I want to hear what it looks like in your head. In my head, it looks like no phones. In my head, it looks like you and I go on dates every single week. So our kids can have a picture of what romance actually looks like. We're going to hug and we're going to kiss every morning and at night. Ew.

In front of the kids so they see what that looks like. We're going to hug and we're going to kiss every morning and at night in front of the kids so they see what that looks like. We're going to argue and fall back in love. We're going to have two vacations a year and you're going to plan one of them alone and we're going to go. And so on. You need to be very clear with what you are expecting the driver of this car to look like. But he needs to know that, have it very clear. And you tell him, I will support you. I will love you.

I will go to these things with you as you learn these new schools, but I'm going to be involved with you. But we're going to have to build this thing up from the floor up. And all of this, all of this, Melissa, is a risk because he may just say no.

But you deserve it and your kids deserve it. Thanks for that call. I want to know how that conversation, that breakfast y'all take, that half day retreat you take on a Saturday. I want to know what that's like. Give us a call back and let me know how that goes.

And by the way, if he wants to call the show, I would love, love, love to talk to that dude. I'd love to. All right. Thank you so much for the call. Hey, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right.

October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right. Look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work.

We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where

you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to Brad in Cincinnati. Hey, Brad, what's going on, man? Hey, Doc. I appreciate your time. Thanks. Thanks, brother.

Thanks for calling. What's up? Yes. Well, sir, I need your help with being able to persuade my daughter to agree to continue her treatment for OCD. Whew. So that is my original clinical diagnosis, OCD. Yeah. So, man, I have been on both sides of this. She have behaviors behaviors she have thoughts

what's she struggling with mostly rumination not so much physical my wife and I don't even have a full understanding of all the things she deals with I'm not even sure she's let us all the way in

because she's got this all the way in to that because she's got this as a secret from everybody as well. And so she's been to some counselors. I'll make it relatively short. We've done supplements. I've even done neurofeedback for a while. We've had some small improvements, but overall her attitude is I I just want it gone.

I shouldn't have to have treatment. This is not fair. I don't want this. I just want it to be gone. I don't want to ever think that I had to go get help. I don't want to have to go treatment. The last counselor was an OCD specialist who recommended she consider medications. And, you know, there have been a couple of times when she momentarily agreed to take that next step.

But she won't do it. She won't do it. How old is she? She's just 17. She'll be 18 real soon. Okay. I'd love to talk to her if she ever wants to call in, if y'all want to call in together. I don't know if she'd ever do that, but I'd love to talk to her if she ever wants to call in, if y'all want to call in together. I don't know if she would ever do that, but I'd love to talk to her.

Been there. So for those who don't, like I know OCD gets a, gets, there's like, it's in the movies and it looks like just somebody's washing their hands a lot like that. Think of, I consider OCD a part of the anxiety family

and compulsive thoughts are compulsive behaviors, right? Whether it's washing your hands or cleaning. One of mine is locking doors. I just know I take two laps around the house every night, every single night. When I'm in a hotel, I take two laps around the hotel. My family knows it. I know it. I don't fight it. I laugh about it. Some nights I'll just smile about it. But counting, I get stuck counting corners sometimes. It's just a thing, right? I went to war over it for years. And part of me being able to just have a great life was making peace with it, right? And then some of the ones that were a little more challenging, like the catastrophizing thoughts, I did work hard on those. And now I just don't have them anymore. Or when they start to spin up, I've got a couple of things I can do between them.

For those who don't know, I can't describe the urge in a way that makes people who don't struggle with OCD understand it. Other than maybe don't eat for 24 hours and then walk into a room and there's that smell of pizza and you have to grab a piece or you've, maybe you've run a couple of miles in the heat and you have to have a drink of water. It's, it's, it's an urges bizarre. It's so powerful, right? And addiction struggle with it. So when, what, what thoughts are spinning in her head? Is she suicidal? Is she having catastrophizing thoughts? Are she scared of the future? What's she spinning around with? Well, it started out with catastrophe and that kind of thing. You know, mom and dad dying, that kind of stuff.

But it's kind of moved on to a lot of things. I mean, she's even struggling with eating now. You know, she has a lot of thoughts of, you know, items being morally dirty. You know, if she had to talk about something that she didn't particularly like and she was near a piece of furniture, well, now that piece of furniture is dirty or now that room in the house is dirty. It's

bleeding into a lot of different things. Relationships are being more and more difficult, especially with me. She's got anger issues. She's got a, a win lose mindset, uh, kind of thing. You know, we try to give her good ideas, try to help her and bless her. And then she, she will actually say, well, I can't do that now because that's what you recommended. So I'm not going to do that. You know, that kind of thing.

And, uh, some of that, some of that, you know, is, is she 17, right? Right. Well, I thought that, but I can't tell, you know, where that line is. Right. And it makes it hard. And I'm so frustrated and heartbroken because I worry so much about where this could lead, you know, if she doesn't get help. And so, you know, as a dad, I'm like, oh, honey, please, you know, let's talk about this. So I probably, you know, I'm kind of trying to be upfront in a non-threatening way, trying to point out things in logic, and that just doesn't work. That's right.

And you're right. And so when that doesn't work, I'm like, oh, okay, what do I do? You know, how do I talk? You know, I mean, we can't even really have a calm conversation like you and I are now, you know, so, so it's extremely difficult. I'm going to ask you a question. It's going to sound like I'm accusing you of something. Please, please don't hear that. Okay. I'm just trying to get one more piece of information and then we can get, we can get on down the

road. Okay. Right. Walk, walk me through her childhood. Was there, where did this stuff emerge from? Was there chaos growing up? Was there frustration? Was there anger?

Did she have trauma in her past? Yeah, well, great question. I anticipate that question. And I don't think so. I think she would tell you, you know, that she had a pretty good childhood up until a point, uh, when her older sister left for college. There you go.

That's when, that's when everything, that's when she pretty much identified her life as being destroyed and over. Okay. And how long ago was that? That was five years ago. Okay. And since then it's just been spinning and spinning and then all of a sudden it's. ago. Okay. And since then, it's just been spinning and spinning, and then all of a sudden it's... Yeah.

Okay. At first, you know, it was just, you know, putting two and two together in her mind that just didn't make sense. And we spent hours talking about it. You know, it's not going to be that bad. It's going to be fine. You know, and it just, it never, you know, it just like bouncing off of her, you know, and she's just never put it together. And then it's just kind of grown and grown. And so as I see this thing building this impenetrable defense to protect itself, it just gets me more and more concerned.

So here – a couple of things here, okay? And I want you – I'm going to give you a couple of things you can do starting today, all right? Starting right when this thing is over. And I want you, I'm going to give you a couple of things you can do starting today. All right? Starting right when this thing is over. She may say no. She's a 17-year-old, right? I mean, she's a 17-year-old woman. She can say no.

But she's also a 17-year-old kid. Okay? Right. And mom's got to be on board too. All right? Right. on board too. All right. Whenever somebody's struggling with anxiety or more than that, somebody is mourning a relationship that meant everything that got plucked out of the moon. Or when a kid wants so badly to go to Chuck E. Cheese and all of a sudden Chuck E. Cheese is closed and they get a little bit agitated and I turn around and as dad and say, it's

not that big a deal where you chill out. What I've just done is I've given them information that is contrary to what their body is telling them. And for a child, it makes them feel insane. So when a, I hit, I spank, if I spank my kid, let's say you spank your child, and you say, that didn't hurt. Their body says that hurts, and their heart says, my dad hit me, that hurts. And their mind says, I'm heartbroken, but also this guy who's smart is telling me it doesn't hurt. And then it just goes, z machine that their brain does right so go back five years

ago the one thing that mattered to your daughter for probably a thousand different reasons was her older sister a person who was safe for her she could laugh with could be honest with and whatever honest means for a 12 year old right um right and then all of a sudden that got unplugged. And that wasn't a cognitive issue. That is not an information issue. That is the fight or flight, the, hey, your tribe just left you part of her brain that sounded every alarm she had. And then the folks who love her, man, y'all came in to help. And you, I mean, like, hey, it's going to, you're going to be fine. It's not even that big a deal.

And her body is saying help. And her head's saying, I, it's going to, you're going to be fine. It's not even that big a deal. And her body is saying help. And her head's saying, I guess it's not that big a deal. And now you got a fracture. Does that make sense? You see where I'm going with that? Yeah, I do. I do. And so what we've tried to do over the last four or five years is solve a connection issue with info.

And now the relationship itself has become a an anxious interaction, right? Yes, yes. And these four-hour conversations that feel like you're spinning in circles and then one night you go to bed and you're like, I think I finally got through. I gave her the right analogy or the right metaphor or the right whatever

and she lays down and her brain's off to the races again, because the thing it's trying to solve for is safe relationship, not info. Yeah, that's right. And we want to do that. I know you,

I know you do. I know you do. So how do we do that? So Brad, can I tell you this? Can I tell you? Sure. You're a great dad and you love your daughter.

Okay? I do. And I don't want you to hang up being like, well, crap, I screwed this up. I'm not telling you that. What I'm telling you is I think moving this way, going west, taking a right, there's some things you can do different. So here's what we're going to solve for.

We're going to solve for relationship. We're going to solve for safety. We're going to solve for safety. Okay. Now, if you've listened to this show, I'm not a throw medicine at something first. There is a moment when your anxiety alarms, you've been in a hotel before that gets the fire alarm gets set off because there's too much. You get hot water in there, right? And it's steam. Set it off. That's an alarm that's busted. It's sensitive. It's too sensitive, you get hot water in there, right? And it's steam, set it off.

That is, that's an alarm that's busted. It's sensitive. It's too sensitive, needs to be recalibrated. There is a season when low dose medication for this is good because it turns the alarms off so that you can finally start having these conversations. Does that make sense? Right, perfect sense.

And so if your doctor has said, hey, we're in year five, and these things aren't working, and now your daughter is telling you, I can't even go into the things that are going to help me to have help because they are setting the – that tells me that you may have – again, I'm not a medical doctor, but you may have an alarm system that just needs to be recalibrated and reset. Okay? So I wouldn't say you're a failure. I wouldn't say anything's broken. I'd say that's a great, like, just get in there and get done with it.

Okay? The second thing is, this is going to sound so cheesy and so lame. So cheesy and so lame. You're going to say, dude, we've spent thousands of dollars and hours and hours. If she would commit to this, I would love for you and her, I would love for you to say, hey, you know what? For the last five years,

I've given you a lot of information. And the one thing I don't do enough of is just hug my baby girl. Would you give me a 30-second hug in the morning and a 30-second hug in the evening, just every day? And mom wants in on this too. And she'd roll her eyes and just say, I just want to go back to my baby girl.

And I know we can't go back to being in middle school, but you're about to go to college and in it. Can we just start hugging? And I'm going to commit, if you want some info from me, you know that I'm here for you and you know, I'm your dad. I love talking. Right. But what I really want to start doing is

I want my baby girl back. And I'm going to quit lecturing you. I'm going to quit arguing with you. I'm going to quit trying to give you another article and another thing. I want a 30 second hug with you every day. In the morning and I want a 30 second hug in the evening. She may say, Dad, I can't do that. And if that's the case,

great. Say me and your mom are going to do 30 second hugs every day. Because here's what's happened. This has affected your marriage too. I know it has because you have an idea on how to do it. Mom has an idea and it's causing fractures all over the place. And that tension feeds this spinning cycle, right? It just turns into a cyclone.

And so I want you and your wife to drop your shoulders. I want y'all to start hugging each other 30 seconds a day. If you're able to, write your daughter just a quick note. Go to Walgreens or go wherever and buy a stack of cards and just write her a note every morning that just says, I'm the luckiest dad in the world that I got picked to be your dad. Love, Dad. That's it. That's it. I love you. And what we're

trying to do now over the next year is we're going to try to solve for relationship. Hey, we just go for all of us going to go for a walk after dinner. I promise we won't talk about COVID, politics, or OCD. We're just going to go for a walk. In fact, you can wear your headphones. If you wear your headphones, you got to hold mom's hand. That's the rule. But we're just going to go for a walk together. And here's what we're doing. We're just slowly teaching the amygdala that we're okay. We're safe.

And that sounds so ridiculous and so cheesy. And so, oh my gosh, what are you doing, dude? Is she still going to need medicine? Probably, at least for a season. Does she still need to see a counselor? Yes, no question. But what she really needs is to solve for safe, to solve for relationship.

And that's going to start with you sitting down saying, dude, I've given you enough information to last us a lifetime. I'm done with it, okay? If you want me to answer questions, specific brain chemistry, come ask me. You know I love talking about that stuff.

And I still want to talk about baseball games with you, whatever. But I just want to be dead. And I love you. And I hurt with you. You know that. I know that. Let's get back to this.

And then if she'll include you in concerts, she'll include you or you can include her in concerts or she'll include you, or you can include her in concerts or whatever things y'all like to do to baseball games, whatever, invite her to those things. We're solving for relationship. And I'm about 99% sure that you and your wife need to go see a marriage counselor too, Brad. Five years of dealing with this inside your house is hard on any marriage at all, any marriage in the world. And that tension fuels the house. And so you guys go work on you. Make sure your marriage is strong, that y'all are good, and give your daughter something firm and concrete to anchor

into. You're a good dad, man. You are. You're a good dad. Your daughter's struggling. She needs medical intervention. She needs relational intervention. And she just needs her old man to say, I love you. Come give me a hug. Let's start with some skin-on-skin contact. Let's start with some hugs. Let's start with some walks. Let's start with some conversations that have nothing to do with these other things.

Let's start with some experiences together. Let's start with y'all play video games together. I don't care whatever it is. And let's let the professionals do the professional stuff. Let her get her dad back. And my gut tells me, my gut tells me that over the arc of several months, over the arc of a year,

those alarms will slowly start turning down. Her brain will start going, we're safe. We're safe. You're a good man. But yes, if medication's on the table, I think you may be there, okay? Sit down with your doctor

and start from the lowest dose and work up is always my recommendation. Thank you so, so, so, so much for that call. Hey, we're gonna take one more quick break. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt

anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, so glad y'all are here. Man, those are a couple of hard, hard calls today. They're hard because there's not just a simple, easy resolution. Hard because people have to do different things. Different things. Those are tough, man.

Solving for relationships. Well, that's so hard. So hard. I just want to tell you something. All right, so to wrap up today's show, man, this is the third in the trifecta, right? On the back end of their self-titled album, Third Eye Blind.

It's the OG. When was this album out? 97. 97. 150 years ago. Kelly, I hope you're feeling better. I just looked up. Where did that come from?

I know you don't feel good, and I just looked up. You don't look like you feel good. A little head cold. I'm fine. I don't like it when you say 97 was 150 years ago, though. Since that's when I graduated from college.

So I was feeling better, but not so much anymore. Whoa. But back then, though, they had like those, uh, they had people that would take your horse and like, like, they would take your horse and put it in your stables for you, though, right? That's so great. The Third Eye Blind album was released on 78, like the old Thick Records.

Oh, yeah. I hate you both. Exactly. It was only done live. They had no recording device. I played it on my phonograph. That's exactly right. That's cool.

We just had a choir come over and sing in the front yard for us because that's all we had. I'm sorry that you're old, Kelly. All right, off the self-titled album, 1997, Third Eye Blind. The song is God of Wine, and it goes like this. Every thought that I repent, there's another chip you haven't spent, and you're cashing them all in. Where do we get clean again?

Can we get clean again? I walk home alone with you in the mood you're born into. Sometimes you let me in. I take it on the chin. I can't get clean again. I want to know, can we get clean again? The God of wine comes crashing through the headlights of a car that took you further than you thought you'd ever want to know, can we get clean again? The God of wine comes crashing through the headlights of a car that took you further than you thought you'd ever want to go.

We can't get back again. Can't get back again. I think you can. Jenkins, I think you can get back right here on the Dr. John Delaney Show.