The Dr. John Delony Show - I Feel Like We Are Stuck in a Communication Rut

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

On today’s show, we hear from: - A wife facing a major communication rift with her husband - A volunteer firefighter who overspends as a reaction to the trauma he endures on the job - A woman unsure of how to maintain a relationship with her mentally unstable mom Lyrics of the Day: "Deep In The Heart Of Texas" - Gene Autry Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I have a tendency to be pretty forgetful, but my husband, when we fight, he's been kind of like bringing up my forgetfulness and, you know, making it seem bad, basically. How can I just help him understand where I'm coming from? What up, what up? Hey, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad that you're with us. The greatest show literally that's ever been recorded.

Ever. Ever. And you showed up, and I'm so grateful. On this show, we talk about mental health, marriage, whatever's going on in your life, actually. All the things. If you want to be on the show, I'm not saying I'm very good at this, but if you want to hang out and chat on the phone, give us a buzz. You can do one of two things. You can go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K,

fill out the form, or you can give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. 1-844-693-3291. Leave a message and we'll get back to you. And I said this last time and I'm going to say it again. We put out just a call for folks to write in and give some feedback for the show. I just want to say thank you for that. Those of you who had some criticisms, thank you for that. Those of you who just wrote in to say really nice things, thank you. Those who did both, I'm just so grateful. And there was a lot of important call-outs, how it sometimes comes across that I am too

nice to women doing dumb things and I'm too mean to men and I don't get the balance right sometimes, that I'm yelling all the time for no reason. So there's some great feedback and a lot of it was really accurate. And so I'm taking it under advisement and I'm going to do my best to make a more palatable show and the horse noises may return. That's all I'm going to say about that. All right, let's go to Sacramento, California and talk to Kayla. What's up Kayla. Hi, can you hear me? I can. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Great. Excellent. What's up? Um, first of all, thanks for taking my call and thank you, Jenna, for giving me a call. Um,

I am like super nervous right now. I like never understand why anybody's nervous when I listened to your show. And now that I'm here, I'm like, Oh my gosh. Okay. Listen, it's just you and me and like millions of other people listening to this. It's not a big deal. Not scary at all. Exactly. Um, okay. So I think I'm going to just give a little bit of background first and then ask my question because it'll make a little bit more sense that way. Cool. But basically what I'm calling is I have a tendency to be pretty forgetful and nothing.

I mean, to me, that seems like out of the norm or, you know, crazy. Like, you know, I forget where I put things. I forget to respond to texts or send texts to people. Um, I'm a stay at home mom. So, you know, during doing certain things around the house, um, non-routine appointments, sometimes I forget those. Um, And then, you know, like if I'm meeting up with a friend, I just blank on everything that we talked about last time we hung out. So anyways, but my husband recently has been, when we fight, he's been kind of like bringing up my forgetfulness and, you know, making it seem super, um, like bad basically. And, um, you know, he's like, I think the reason why you're forgetting things is because, uh, they're not priorities. Um, and if you just prioritize

things better than you wouldn't forget, um, and in my mind, you know, I'm thinking, okay, well, I'm a stay at home mom. I have two babies under two and I already struggle with like anxiety. Um, and you know, especially when I get super stressed out and I'm having a conversation with him, um, I just freeze up. And, up. And when he asked me something to remember back to another event, I blink. I'm like, I have no idea. So anyways, basically what I want to know is, could he be right? Is there something that I'm not seeing I genuinely want to know? And also, how can I just help him understand where I'm coming from, especially

when we're in conflict, when we're fighting, I guess. Awesome. Great questions. So a couple of quick background questions. Do you have a trauma background or no? What? I mean, define trauma. I mean, my parents were divorced and i would say yes like it was a kind of a catastrophe my dad describes it as um for all my siblings okay i just wanted to play this out how you told that um i think this is important um uh define trauma. I mean, they're divorced. My dad calls it a catastrophe, right? So we don't have to dig into all that. I'm trying to figure out the right place to start. I'm going to get it a little bit nerdy and I'm going to try to keep it as non-nerdy as possible. And just know when I do this, my neuroscience friends all send me direct messages.

And they're like, oh, my gosh, you blew it, Delon. Okay, so just know that. I'm not going to make anybody happy with this, but I think it's important. Okay. The amygdala and the hippocampus are these little parts of your brain that help deal with your body's fear response. Okay? And hippocampus works works does other things like memory and spatial functionings like where are you and it helps influence emotional regulation all this

stuff but here's what's important that the parts of your brain that are are closely are dealing with is this a fear is this a threat is there too much coming into the system at once? Are also where a lot of your brain does its memory storage and retrieval. And that makes sense over time. And memory is scattered throughout the brain. Those aren't the only two places, but here's why that's important. Think of it this way. You can be watching a football game and you can look at the game and be like, why aren't they scoring? And somebody would look at you and say, well, they're playing defense right now. Like the offense isn't even on the field. They're trying to not let the other team score right now.

And so if you think about a world that is a body that has been negotiating trauma for a long time, a body that's anxious, a body that has two little kids and is trying to figure out what just happened to my own body, what happened to my life, what happened to my marriage, what happened to all these things. You have a brain that is decidedly trying to not die right now. And the thought that it's going to spend energy making new memories and remembering things that aren't about not dying, it's very common for people who struggle with anxiety to have short-term memory. Like I just forgot that thing. I just, I blew right past it because you got a body that's just sprinting and fighting

and running for its life. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And okay. So, and your husband's got a point you can't be in relationship if you forget things all the time you can't be in a relationship with somebody else if they have they pour their heart out to you

and you just let it you don't do the things upstream that make it make you able to hear those conversations and connect. Same with your friends. Same with doctor's appointments. And so I want to give you a context, not an excuse. You and I could probably spend a couple hours together and you could tell me some stories from your past that would probably blow my mind, right? Fair enough?

Yes. Okay. I want you to know you're not broken, you're not screwed up. You have a brain that's just trying to protect you, and it probably has been for a long time. And you're a wife, you signed up for a lifetime relationship,

you got two little kids, you signed up for two lifetime relationships, and you're just probably a pretty good friend too, right? Yeah, I try. What a flex. Yeah, I try. All right. So the healing is going to be in two ways here. Number one, you have to work towards building a non-anxious life. And that's really hard with two little kids. What does that look like? That probably looks like you for the first time in your life saying needs out loud, saying I need help with.

Could you be a part of this? I don't like it when you fill in the blank. I really need a night off tonight. How good are you at saying your needs out loud? Actually, I'm pretty good. My husband knows I'm pretty vocal about my needs. I just kind of grew up in a family like that. Are they needs or are they demands? That's a good question. Because I can demand the dishes get put away in the right way. That's different than I need some help. Yeah, I try my best to format as questions

because I know, you know, I want to respect him and I want to, you know, not just bully him around, but... Okay, so I'm going to stop right there. That's the problem. And people listening are going to go, what? Asking questions and being kind? Asking questions can be really really passive aggressive okay and i would much rather a couple sit down not in a fight not in a discussion but say all

right we're entering into it's sunday night we're entering into this week what does this week look like calendar wise what's this week look like budget wise like how are you doing? How can I love you best this week? And then it's, hey, would you pick up the dishes? If I walk in after a wild day of recording shows and doing interviews and I walk in, and then my wife's like, hey, would you do, that's different than, because she's not saying would you,

she's saying do this, and she's wrapping it up in a nice, pretty package. It would be much, I would love to have some headspace that suggests that I'm like, hey, I know when I get home, I'm going to still be fully on and I'm going to be still fully participating because we've already talked about this. She texted me at 3 p.m. saying, today's been hell. I need some help when you get home. Awesome.

I'm in. See what I'm saying? So I would suggest figuring out a way to be more direct. And y'all do this together. today's been hell i need some help when you get home awesome i'm in see what i'm saying so i would suggest figuring out a way to be more direct and y'all do this together a lot of times folks who have not been direct but they just talk around it directness comes out really sharp and hard and then the other person's like whoa right so it's just learning how to say like here's what i need in in a i guess it's all good, just normal context, right? Here's the other thing.

I want you to get really intentional about writing things down. Okay. If you know you struggle with remembering things, then I'm going to put it on you to start making plans for how you can remember things better. It's why I struggle with anxiety. I have for years. I always carry a note card with me with what's going on today. I just keep it with me all the time because my memory is not trustworthy.

I've learned that. I forget everything. Okay. And I still got to change the oil, and I still got to show up to my kid's game, and I still got to go pick up my daughter from whatever because I said I would. Does that make sense? Yeah. So when I say that, does that sound like an attack or is that um do you do you know like all right that's fair

yeah i mean what you're saying definitely makes sense um i wouldn't necessarily say like um my husband i don't really know how to describe this. Like, it kind of takes me off guard, honestly, when it's like, he did take something offensive. You know, if I were to like, ask him to do something or whatever, I think he would prefer me to ask him rather than demand it. Cause he's kind of like this guy that's like, you know, I want to feel respected as like the man of our relationship. And anyway, so asking him to do things, I don't think he really minds it. And he usually responds pretty well. However, there is something actually, as you were talking that I remembered is one, I think our most recent argument that we had, I was like, you know, after he was telling me, you know, you're forgetting these things and, can you help me remember, you know, can you, you know, cause I tried to set reminders on my phone and, you know, or have him text me a text message and I'll just leave it unread so I can always have it on my phone notifications.

So I try to do things. It's just with our little ones, it's not always like, like I'm super distracted all the time. So anyway, so I asked him, I'm like, hey, you know, can you just remind me, you know, like you obviously know that's help me with? And his response to me was, you know, I can't just always be doing that for you. And, you know, like you need to be self-sufficient and, um, you know, like I could probably help you here and there, but you, you have to like figure it out pretty much. And I was just like, like when he said that, I was honestly just pretty hurt by it, you know, cause I'm like, okay, you're my husband. I thought we're supposed to try and be a team here. And, you know, it's something that... You're asking him to be a parent. Yeah. And I want you to start leaning into, this is going to sound crazy. I want you to start leaning into not having your life dragged around by two toddlers. The greatest gift you can give those two toddlers, two infants, is you make sure you're well.

And I know they got to eat on a schedule. I know they got to sleep. I get that. But the number of kids who run their households and their parents are left haggard and beat down in the wake of what these kids are demanding and needing and wanting and all, it's chaos. I want you to flip around and take ownership of that. That doesn't mean you're not going to be exhausted. Of course you are. It doesn't mean you're not going to be frustrated.

Of course you are. You got two little ones. But I want you to be on top top on the front end of it, not just a passive recipient. And when you ask, um, I, and, and, and I didn't, I didn't word this right. I'm not saying make demands of your husband. There's a difference between barking orders and passively. Cause here's a good example. You said, would you just remind me? And he said, no. And you didn't have a comeback for that other than you were just hurt by it. And so when you ask a question,

you're inviting somebody to give their feedback, right? They give their answer. And that's not what needs are. Needs are a gentle, I need some support and help here. And you're also asking them, like I said, you're asking them to be your dad. Hey, will you tell me when school starts? Will you remind me to change my underwear and to put on deodorant and brush my teeth? Like that. So there is partnership and there is working together. And this is a wild season. I would much rather you sit down and say, hey, I'm really scared about this.

Motherhood is harder on me than I thought it was going to be. I need some help around here. I want to hire some help around here. I need a week, once a week, I need to go spend some time with some girlfriends and just not have kids all over me. I need to fill in the blank. Like I need these things.

Our life is really overscheduled right now and I need a way to take some of the things off the calendar. I often, and there's some great research on clutter and anxiety. I often am guilty of leaving a bunch of unread emails, a bunch of unread text on my phone, and it starts to make me bananas, right? It's not actually helping. My brain is still running. Got to do that thing. Got to do that thing. Got to do that thing. And then I'm onto the next thing. I'm onto the next thing. And then I get another text, another text, another text. And so many of them, I've just

had to start saying, I'm not going to get back to this one and I'll just mark it on red. But that's me taking ownership of my calendar. There's two or three unreads right now, and I'll get them before the end of the day. That's kind of my 24 hour rule with myself. But the more you allow these things to build and build and build and build and build, you're just signaling to your body, you're creating a world that your body can't exist in. It's just too much, it's just too much, too much, too much, too much, too much. So if you think about unread messages,

if you think about unread texts or unresponded to email, just think of somebody knocking on your door and you don't answer it and you're just going to let them keep knocking because you'll answer them later and then somebody else starts ringing the doorbell and then somebody else just starts yelling through the window

and somebody else just starts calling your phone. You can't do anything after that. And that's what's happening inside your head when you just let stuff go, let stuff go, let stuff go. All I have to say is this, you've created a very anxious world for yourself and that's super common with toddlers. And now your husband's getting frustrated

because his world looks different. You're frustrated because your world looks different. And it's time for And now your husband's getting frustrated because his world looks different. You're frustrated because your world looks different. And it's time for you and your husband to get together and create a whole new world, a whole new planet for how we're going to operate here. And I want you to practice remembering, practice writing things down, practice leaning into those things, and also practicing your needs in a kind, gentle way, not in a demand way, not in a catching somebody off guard way, but letting people know ahead of time. And if you find that you're being gaslit on something, that your husband's like, oh, you forgot. I said that. Maybe he didn't.

Maybe he didn't. And that's where writing things down is important because you can come back. And if he's kind of jerking you around a little bit, that's important too. But you're not crazy. You're like an exhausted mom that the world is just happening to. And I want to encourage you

to get some women in your life that you can walk alongside and begin to get on top of this, of the crest of the wave here, right? So the water's not just blasting you in the face. Crest of the wave here. And then you can start to take ownership of the calendars, take ownership of these kids' routines,

take ownership of what you need in your home and asking for those needs. And take ownership of, I forget stuff a lot, so I'm going to start leaning into some practices where I can start remembering things a little bit better. You're on the right path. You're on the right path. Thanks for the call, Kayla. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you

haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can

take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Hey, a few weeks ago, if you remember, if you listen to all

the shows, I had a call scheduled with a firefighter, and right before he came on, he got called to an actual fire. And so we rescheduled the call, and he is here. What's up, Neil? How we doing, brother? How you doing, doctor? Thanks for your time. Of course, man.

Thank you for your time, and thank you for taking care of our communities. And I'm sound asleep, and my kids are sound asleep. I'm grateful for you, man. Yeah. First and foremost, I do need to apologize.

I know it's a tough i put you in the tough spot um literally was my neighbor you're fighting fires i run my mouth on a on a on a b-rated podcast our our job comparison is of no comparison kelly's like no this is an a this is not an a this is a kelly it's not an a. This is an A, Kelly. It's not an A. Yes, it is. I'm going to say it's an A. This is a B at best. Thank you, Neil. Man, you do your thing, Neil, and we'll reschedule every single time

we need to. So, what's up, man? I called in a couple of weeks ago when you were on the Dave Ramsey show, and I'm sorry. Actually, I even called in a little late on that show. I wish I would have had a few more minutes to talk because it does kind of concern both of you, if you will. I followed the Dave Ramsey program. We're doing well. We've got a good job. We've eliminated debt minus the mortgage. And so as we continue down that path, what's happened over the last two or three years because of just this role that I play with the fire department,

we've encountered a number of children who have passed, passed on scene. And unfortunately, I've been on a lot of those calls. And so as that has happened, it's put me in this mindset where I'll come home and the kids will say, and I have four daughters, which is just beautiful and wonderful. And they'll say, Hey dad, I really want to see this or do that. Um, I want to go there. And because I'm in this mindset, I, um, I just kind of book it and go. And so I'm kind of breaking my policy with what I've done with my debt. I've broken into a few of my savings accounts and made sure that I had that

time and memory with my kids. And I always tell, so I, beyond being a firefighter, I have a full time job. And I tell my team, when you, before you come to me, I want you to ask yourself one question. Is the house on fire or are we out of coffee? Keep it simple, right? And so at this point, I'm a little nervous with where I'm at. I feel like this fire is at the incipient stage and I feel like it could progress. So I'm trying to head it off, and that's why I called. I love that, man.

And I take so many calls on this show and then also on that show that very few of them stick with me long-term, and yours did. In fact, I took some time the following day. Our call that we had together, and if you want to go back, we'll link to that call in the show notes here. If you want to go back we'll link to that call in the show notes here if you want to go back and listen to the original call i was on the show with day ramsey and you called in brother i had in talking to you i had some memories of some situations that i hadn't thought about in years and i got a little girl too and it was like i i was, I had some time that I just spent with myself.

Right. So let me ask you a broader zoom out picture here. The picture you're painting is of a guy who has a lot going on and a guy who is constantly being called up for service to his family. You're a great father. You're a great husband. You're a great firefighter. You're also a business leader, and you do good at that. And the one person that you've left off the helping list is you.

Am I right or wrong? Yeah, I think I said the last time, I'm the guy you call for help. Not the one to call for help not when i'm not the one to call for help you know right exactly yeah yeah so i forgot that i said that like most firefighters a i just want to call it out what it is um most firefighters are told if you have a problem come see your supervisor go to your chain of command command. And nobody in the world in a first responder situation is going to go tell their boss they're struggling with anxiety or struggling with depression or, hey, I've seen too many kids passed away this month.

I can't do it. I need a break. Can't do that because they're going to kick you off to desk duty or they're going to roll you off of patrol. And so you just got to sit on it. Or they give you some counselor that has got a reporting line to some right so you just say they so folks say nothing and then you know the amount of first responders who are struggling with substance abuse who cheat on their spouses who are have all sorts of other issues going on in their lives and i'm convinced

beyond a shadow of a doubt is because they see this stuff all day long and there's nowhere to go. And you are too valuable to not take care of my friend, Neil. So my question, how do you do that? Or let me ask this. Why won't you do that? I'll just be super direct. Why won't you do that?

Well, I had a chance to read your book and one of the questions that you posed early on um like after world war ii we had this abundance of money and credit and people were able to get what they want now they could get it at any point and that has never really left our culture our society um and you posed the question why and so i so I thought about that, and I have been. And so I think about what if I lose this moment with my kids? And that's my why. I need to do this now. I need to make this memory now. or at a national park, or whatever. We're completely unplugged and we're completely together, but we're not that when we're here at home. When we're at home, we're running. Why have you chosen that one?

Oh, God. Why not? We're American. Right, there you go. You run in this country. why not? We're American. Right. There you go. So you, you, you run in this country. I know. And we've created worlds that we literally have to escape from.

We have, we have everything and we've created worlds that are so abundant and so fast moving that we have to pay more money to leave them, to get away from them. And that, my friend, is insane. Yeah, but here we are. But here we are. And I don't know what my next step is. Because since we've talked, my kids sat down and they talked about National Park. They were looking through this beautiful book that we have,

and one of them said, I want to go to Glacier. Guess what? It's booked. I've done that since we've last talked. Yeah. And listen, you know what? Your kids know that when you get to do something nice for them, it lights you up.

And so they love it when dad's lit up. And so they're going to find cool things that they like and bring them to dad so that dad lights up. And then they feel like they're bonding in that relationship. If you got a whole bunch of water balloons and after school today, and it costs you $1.59 at Walgreens, and after school today, I don't know how much balloons cost, maybe it's five bucks. You had them in buckets and your daughters came home, all four of them. And you said, you guys got three minutes to hide and it's game on. They would tell that story at your funeral, not the Glacier Park story.

Yeah, I know. I know. Here's the thing. You're creating memories. You're trying to hedge against the fact that someday something bad's going to happen to one of your daughters. You're trying to hedge the fact

that you have seen these moms and dads that cannot physically stand up because they have fallen down at a crime scene they've fallen down at a wreck scene you've seen it you probably helped pick them up right yeah you ever held a mom who just lost her baby lost her kid yeah it's a different hug isn't it yeah you can't breathe it's a strange hug if there's a strength that i was caught off guard the first time a woman was saw her kid who had died and turned, and I just happened to be there, and grabbed me with a hug that was of such a ferocity that I was caught off guard by it. I didn't know strength could come from that small of a person.

And it was like a I'm falling, catch me hug, right? Yeah. You're trying to hedge against that by spending a bunch of money you don't have and creating hype and hoopla and, and smoke and fireworks for four little girls that just really want their dad. Yeah. You and Dave mentioned that on time.

It doesn't, doesn't cost anything. i don't know i i there are just so many distractions i mean in your book you outline you know how many how many devices do you have how much time are you on that screen how much time per day per week i i do i think about that i consider that and then i also I've even played the tough guy. Like we're going to shut down. We are going to take those devices. We're going to play a board game. And we have, we do that, but it's just, it's not the, it's not the moment that we have when, when we're completely disconnected, when we are in a tent in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of a park. There's no self-service. There's no nothing. There's just us.

And I am desperately trying to recreate that in my personal life. And I just don't know how to do it. Because we get those dings. We hear the emails. Everything draws us and pulls us away. And then what's your, what's your other job? What's your other job? So I, um, I'm a director at the largest publishing firm in the country. I'm going to be super direct with you. Is that cool? Yeah.

You're headed for an implosion, my brother. I have conversations with some of the most intelligent people in the world. It's a beautiful job. It is. It is. And you also know that some of those people are hyper, hyper intelligent, and they're bonkers, too. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. So intelligence gets you part of the way. I'm going to be super direct, man. You're headed for an implosion. You're headed for a crash. I can hear it. You got on the treadmill and the sucker's on 15

and it won't go any higher and you can run no faster and you don't know how to get off. And you're like, you are killing it in your other job. You're showing up in the middle of the night doing gnarly things and you got $4 that you're trying to raise. And if you think about it the other job, you're showing up in the middle of the night doing gnarly things, and you got four daughters that you're trying to raise.

And if you think about it the other way, maybe it's that those places that your daughters get you unplugged finally. Yeah. I mean, I was on the road this week in Georgia. Flew on Sunday, flew home Wednesday. I was in meetings until 5 p.m. And then we have drills every Wednesday night until 10 o'clock.

What are you running from, man? What are you running from, Neil? I don't think I'm running. Here's the deal. I honestly, God, feel like my daytime job, I love it because I feel like I'm providing education to the masses and we're doing a great job because education is the way out

for a lot of people who especially have economic boundaries, right? In the evening, I'm waiting for my pager to go off because somebody in my community, like my neighbor last week or two weeks ago, they needed help. They needed help. I can help. I'm a helping hand and I can do this.

You're going to be of no help to anybody when you're dead. You're going to be of no help to anybody. Neil, after your fourth drink again, you're too smart for your own good. And you have wrapped your you have wrapped your pathology and altruism you're a great human being and you use that as an excuse to not sit at home and be still yeah i don't i'm not gonna argue that because you don't think you have value

in and of yourself your value is only found in your utility. You got a problem with that. Truly. Yes. I mean. Yes. Because at some point, because at some point, Neil,

you can't be that guy that shows up or at some point your daughter is going to have a wedding and you're going to get a pager number. I left my brother's wedding to go deal with a car accident and I will go to the grave with that one because I screwed that up. I said, my role in my community is more important than looking at my brother and saying, I honor you. I'm going to spend the day with you on one of your most happiest days of your life. I missed it, man. I screwed it up because I put all my worth in this thing that I do for other people. And I had taken, had no worth in, my brother just wants me to sit by him at his wedding and say, this is incredible. Let's dance and eat. I missed it. And the more we think that our only value is

in what we do, the more we just chase more things to do. and we get pushed that thing more and more and more and more and more You're talking to a dude with two phds, man. I didn't get that because i'm super smart I get that because I was running for myself And while I was getting a phd I was working full-time as a dean of students at a law school And I was also running crisis calls in the middle of the night I know I read are you saying? Absolutely Because I missed my son's childhood

I've got some great stories And I've got some great experiences And I helped a lot of people And I missed some things that I could never get back Well then let me ask you this How do we move forward from here? I am So ingrained

In what I do. And I have a team of eight that call. And my team, unfortunately, I kind of have a unique circumstance with my full-time job because I have a rep down in Florida, in Orlando, and I also have a rep that's up in Spokane. So I am going from seven until seven, per se. Neil, you se. I mean, I am so ingrained in all this. You're not ingrained. You're a prisoner. You're a prisoner. And your body tells you the only way we can be free is on a mountain with no cell service. Oh man, but it is beautiful there. Yeah, it is. It's incredible. It's amazing. Listen, ifave ramsey called me today and said hey my buddy has uh a jet that's worth 10 million dollars and he's gonna sell it and i talked him into selling it to

you for two million it's a deal of a lifetime i would have to say that's amazing dude i would love a 10 million dollar jet that i could buy for two million dollars i don't have two million dollars so i'm gonna have to pass. The Glacier National Park is, is breathtaking, stunning. Can't breathe. It's so beautiful and we can't afford it.

You've created a, you've created your prisons locked from the inside, dude. Here's the, here's, here's the place to start. Um, I want you to spend some time with that question and I want to ask you to write it down

what's Neil running from? if Neil suddenly couldn't be a firefighter if Neil suddenly lost his job as the book publisher who is Neil? does that Neil have value? to his daughters? to his wife? to his community. What I'll tell you is only because I opened up my hands and started trying to be all,

stopped trying to be all things to all people, only then can I truly show up and be a gift. Here's the deal. I always thought that there were these elements that people had to fulfill throughout their life. That to continue on with this goal of this country, what we're doing. Our forefathers, I mean, it wasn't easy. Like, there's time, toil, blood. That's all here. I want to continue that, not just for me, but for everybody that

comes behind me. And I do carry that weight. I carry that weight earnestly. I wasn't in the military. I probably should have been. But I carry that and I carry that every day. And I want to make sure that everything I do, that everything behind me is a smooth or a smoother path for those involved. Here's the deal. I love that. I love that. And I remember sitting down and having a private conversation with Jocko and I talked for a while about that very same thing. And he told me, John, people for, because I was pushing him on it.

Like, man, you run and gun, you do all this and this and this. And he said something that was really important for me to hear. John, men throughout all of human history have left their families for months or years at a time to go defend a land. And he was right. That's true. If that's your path, then that's your path. I'm not going to take your path from you. You want to die on the battlefield? Good for you. I'm all, go for it. Okay? That doesn't give license to be irresponsible with your finances. So let me say this. If you're going to die on the battlefield, making the world better for everybody else,

then go all the way and do it all with integrity and know that it's going to come at a cost. You can't do all that stuff and not miss games. You can't do all that stuff and not miss weddings. You can't do all that stuff and have your wife going to bed by herself a lot. You can't do all those things and go on all the family vacations too.

You just can't. You got to choose. And if you're going to choose one, you got to make peace with the other. I think I'm here because I don't, I don't want to keep going down this path. That's what I think. I do.

I agree with that. I also know that in my life, I'm just speaking for me, when I start getting existential and global, that's when my anxiety is at its highest. And it is just looking for things to spin up about. So I guess I'm hoping from you, or asking, praying. I'm looking, I mean, you give me a Dave Ramsey plan,

I will follow that day and the day out step by step and we're going to achieve and I did. How do I, how do I, like, I don't know

how the heck you would even formulate a plan for this scenario. What do I do? I want you to get off the phone and I want you to go to psychologytoday.com and I want you to go through the phone and I want you to go to psychologytoday.com. And I want you to go through the list of local counselors and psychologists in your area

and just scroll down until you find one that you read their little bio and think this person's going to be, this might be the one for me. I want you to make that call. And when you sit down with the counselor, the psychologist, and they say, why are you here? I want you to tell them, I am an executive, I'm a firefighter, and I saw four dead children this month. And start there.

And by the way, if you want to be a real gangster about it, you can say, one of them, her name was Susan, and she was six. And one of us, her name was Steven, and he was four. He was wearing blue jeans.

Let's get real specific That's where you start And by the way, you are uh That's one of the truest marks of bravery I can I can account for Most people don't understand this but it's it's easy to go run into an active shooter situation when you're trained for it. I don't say it's easy. It becomes part of your training. You just go, right?

You just go. You're like that too. You see a wreck, you just go. I'm driving down the road and there's a wreck. My wife will literally, I'll pull over the car and she'll just start sliding over in the driver's seat because she knows her husband's getting out. She just knows that, right? And I'm not even a trained firefighter. Courage is when it's scary.

And sitting down in front of another person and saying, I'm not okay. That's real scary to somebody who everyone comes to for the answers. Is this something I can hide from my wife? Nope. Hey, Neil. Here, Neil. She knows. She knows. She's married, Neil, here, Neil, she knows, she knows she's married to a,

uh, as I put in the book, she's married to a taser. She knows. Oh man. Why are you so scared to tell her that I'm not okay? Cause I'm Superman. That's why she knows you're not

yeah I know she does she thinks you're dishonest man or worse she thinks she's not trustworthy enough to be a part of the parts that really hurt for you nah she's she's laid some of this framework here that led up to this conversation

and good for her she's a smart woman. You love you some smarts. Yeah. But I don't know when to call it. And that's what scares me the most. Hey, don't make an after plan right now. The first plan is get out of the building. So the first plan,

like you're trying to, like the house is on fire and you're trying to start drawing up architecture plans for the rebuild. Get out. That is a great analogy. Just call the counselor, call a psychologist and say, I need to talk.

And you can say, I don't buy into this stuff. I think this is for weak people. This is not for me, but here we are. This is not for me. But here we are. I'm not all right. And here's the beautiful part. When it all said and done, I actually work more hours than I used to.

Crazy, right? Yeah. I'm actually an infinitely better dad and an infinitely better husband. I got more going on. The difference is those things that are going on are not me trying to convince myself that I've got worth and value. Those things that are going on are now things I can do freely because I'm anchored into the bedrock of my marriage.

I'm anchored into the bedrock of my marriage. I'm anchored into the bedrock of my local community. And because I did that work, because I'm working hard to create a non-anxious life where I'm not overscheduled and overzealous and overrunning. And there's always electronics, all the stuff that we've, the world we've created because that's where the hard work is. Now, man, I can go run. If I need to do something in the middle of the night and show up somewhere

weird, I can go show up somewhere weird. That's something in the middle of the night and show up somewhere weird, I can go show up somewhere weird. That's fine. I'll be tired the next day. That's cool. Because my identity, my worth's not tied to it. Yours is. And I'm going to tell you right now, it's going to be a hard road.

It's a hard road to untangle all that. It's going to be messy. Messy, messy, messy, messy. And I have 1000% confidence that you can get there. And I'm proud of you. and I'm grateful for you. I will be with you every step of the way. Call me anytime. Shoot me a direct message, and we can figure out a way to communicate offline if you need to.

But I'll walk alongside you. I can't be your therapist or counselor because I'm not even one of those at all, but I'll be willing to pitch in where I can, man. Your community needs you and your family needs you. Neil needs you. I'm grateful for you, man. We'll be right back. All right, let's take one more.

Let's go out to Jessica in Seattle. What's up, Jessica? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? Good. How are you? I am doing fantastic. This feels a little surreal. How are you? I am doing fantastic. This feels a little surreal. I'm really happy to talk to you.

I don't ever get to talk to Seattle people. Really? That's the birthplace of Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains and all the good sound guard. It is. We're just up here being depressed, so we can't get on the phone to call you because the weather's so bad. I know. We don't have any good music coming out of Nashville because we're all too busy being

outside and enjoying the weather and all that kind of stuff. All that vitamin D. See, we're so overjoyed. We don't know what to do with ourselves. That's right. You guys got to work on that. We will. We will. All right. So what's up? I want to ask you, I don't hear a lot of borderline personality questions from when I've listened to you before. I've got

a 70-year-old mom with borderline personality disorder. I am her only child. She is divorced and I'm kind of watching her taking a steep decline since she and my dad got divorced. And I just need some advice from you on what you think I should do or if I should be doing any more than I'm already doing. Who diagnosed her? Is that a true diagnosis or is that just off the internet? So I grew up believing that she was manic depressive. And then last year she told me that the counselor or the therapist that she's been meeting reviewed her notes from when she was hospitalized maybe like 30 years ago and there was a bpd diagnosis in there oh my gosh that's so not

helpful okay yeah so this is totally like very new information for me but when i looked into it completely checks out yeah so one i don't like cold case diagnostics i don't like looking at data from 30 years ago and trying to retro a situation okay okay here's why um because 30 years ago they were not asking questions about trauma they weren't asking questions about environment they weren't asking questions about grief so Okay. Meaning you could do an intake at some of these places and your husband had just died. And they would ask you on the questionnaire, are you having suicidal thoughts? Yes. Are you struggling with this?

Yes. Are you struggling with this? Yes. Bam, diagnosis. Okay. And so she needs to go get checked out now. She needs to go sit with somebody now. If she will. If she won't, she needs to go get checked out now. She needs to go sit with somebody now. If she will.

If she won't, she won't. She is actively in therapy or counseling of some sort now. Okay. All right. So let's move over to she truly has borderline personality disorder. I'm of the opinion outside of what I would call true psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia. Those are challenging, but there's entire specialties there. Borderline personality disorder is, I think it's the toughest thing to deal with, both as a clinician, both as a family member, both as somebody suffering from borderline personality disorder.

Here's why. Yeah. Your core signals are off. Yes. Here's why. Your core signals are off. Yes. Fear, love on my team against me. Those are so amplified in a way that, I mean, if you grew up with it and it's true, then there were days when your mom would hold your face and look you in the eyes and say, every day of my life, I thank God that you're my daughter. You're the greatest daughter that has ever existed.

And as a 10-year-old, you can hardly breathe because your chest is so puffed up and you're so excited. And then later that afternoon, your mom will sit down and take a knee and say, everything about you disgusts me. My life would be so much better if you weren't here. And you as a 10 year old are going, uh, right. Is that,

is that, is that track? Um, there were a lot of ups and downs. I think my mom did more sleeping than she did like laying into me about things. So avoidance. She there, it was either, than she did like laying into me about things. So avoidance?

It was either she was feeling great and she was being crafty and creative or she was sleeping or she was down. Okay. That doesn't ring the borderline bells to me. Well, we also had an opiate addiction, so. Just why not, right? Yeah. Jessica, lead with that.

Lead with that. I'm sorry. There's so many layers to this. I wasn't sure even what to start with. Okay. I'm messing with you. I know this is, I'm trying to bring some levity. I know this is a mess.

So let's think outside the diagnosis, okay? Okay. And that's something with one of my friends call me. I'm just having a personal conversation with my buddies. That's one of the most common things I say is like, let's think out of the diagnosis. Let's just look at the world that's in front of us, okay? All right. You've got a mom that is fill in the blank for me.

She's what? I have a mom who I haven't seen in six months. She lives five minutes from me. Okay. You haven't seen her because she won't see you. She's what? I have a mom who I haven't seen in six months She lives five minutes from me Okay You haven't seen her because she won't see you? She avoids you? You don't go over there? She's a hoarder?

Because She is a hoarder Okay I think For the holidays She opted out of the holidays She said she wasn't feeling well Okay

She I didn't hear from her on my birthday, which this is the first year that's ever happened. I think she's just in such a deep, dark place right now that she doesn't want her grandkids to see her like that. And she doesn't want, um, she just wants to tell us she doesn't feel well to avoid any intervention we think we might need to have with her. What has kept you from going to knock on the door and say, you're my mom and I love you and you're not okay? I don't know if I have a solution to offer her when she collapses and says I'm not okay because she's told me she's not okay for 43 years. And I don't feel equipped to solve whatever problem she presents to me.

So one thing I would recommend you do, and again, I want to honor this powerlessness. I get it. She's an adult, and there's nothing harder than seeing people that we love who are adults struggling and they don't invite us into that conversation or they present us, they drop bricks in our backpack that I don't know what to do with this. I don't have the training. I don't have the skill set. I don't have anything like that. Right.

Yeah. And so I'm just going to tell you if this was my mom, what I would do, because I don't have the training to sit down and do borderline personality disorder and at 70 i can't imagine the entrenchment um i i've i've never even read about somebody trying to heal from borderline at 70 okay yeah i i just walked alongside so many of my college students and it was hard it was really difficult because they had to learn that when they felt scared that they might not their bodies are lying to them is basically you gotta you gotta get to where i have to step back from my emotions

and recalibrate and it's just hard it's really hard to do um so if i'm you i would reach out to her current therapist do you know who that person is no No, I don't. Okay. I would do everything I could to find out who that person is. Okay. And they can't, unless your mom has written a release to where you can talk to that person, they can tell you that she's even a client. Okay. They can take information one way, meaning you can write her counselor a letter, put it in writing or an email and say, my mom is expressing things in a way that is making me think she's suicidal or she is on a deep negative trajectory. I'm very worried about her and I'm interested in partnering with you if you think there is a need.

And a counselor, if there is a direct threat to self or others, can breach that confidentiality. It's a nuclear option, but they can do that. Okay. I'll also say if she's seeing somebody and this person is competent and they're licensed and all that stuff, then they should be trained to know I'm watching a trend line here that is making me uncomfortable and

making me nervous. I've got to reach out to, um, some lifeline. That's right. Okay. I've got to reach out to a psychiatrist or to a team or to a social worker or to a family or whatever. Yeah. And so, um, and it may be that you asked your mom, um, I'm not in a position. I don't, I don't know how to help you with your addiction. I don't know how to help you with your mental health stuff. I would love to partner with your counselor so that you have support everywhere. That's a good suggestion. And what she can do is sign a release and give you permission, their counselor permission to talk back and forth with you.

Okay. I think she'd be willing to tell me who her, who she's talking to right now. I think that's, she might be open to that. Okay. Sometimes they will write back and say, I am not currently seeing a client named Kelly. Yeah. And sometimes that's a big indicator, right?

It's a what indicator? It's a big indicator. Maybe your mom's not seeing somebody and you think she is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. Or she saw somebody three years ago and that's, quote unquote, her person. And so she's going to somebody, right?

Okay. All I have to say is this. I also would reach out to social services or local services in your area that help the elderly, possible have conversations about assisted living. If I don't know what your finances are. We're having broader conversations now because we're 70. And mom's still struggling with addiction. And now she's starting to shutter the doors.

Trying to disappear on us. And again, I hate this because mom can say, leave me alone. Oh my gosh, leave me alone. I can't think of a more gut-wrenching horrible like situation to be in um so let's let's exhaust every possible avenue for support and care you're not going to be the therapist you're not going to be the person writing scripts you're not going to be the person actually doing the care you're going to you might be the the hub of the wheel for a while playing traffic cop, playing direct.

Have you talked to this person? Have you talked to this person? But at the end of the day, unfortunately, your mom's going to have to make some final decisions. The last option you got is to file a petition with the local court to take away her rights that she is incompetent to. She's unable to make decisions for herself. She's a harm to self or others and you need to step in and that's going to depend on, and who is the,

who's your caretaker. You have to get with your brothers and sisters and have that conversation. That's a broader conversation. And that's a last option, right? Cause you're saying this person can't take care of themselves. They can't make adult decisions for themselves. I need to step in and be their caretaker.

And then the burden of proof is on you to prove that this person can't do that. And that's a tough, tough road to hoe. A road to hoe. But just for what it's worth, I'm grateful to know people like you love their mom. And I know that's been a tough, tough, tough life that you've lived with a woman who's had a lot of struggle. Really been struggling. Let's think outside the diagnosis right now and focus less on Googling things about, you know, men with depressive bipolar disorder or Googling things about

borderline personality, just all that stuff. And instead, let's focus on resources in our local community for helping mom and bringing your brothers and sisters in on this one. I'm so sorry, Jessica. Let me know if I can help in any other way. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, this is a huge day, Kelly. What is it? It's not Taco Tuesday. It's even bigger. It's the best day of the year. Today is Texas's birthday. Now, I'd like to state for the record, Texas doesn't have a birthday. It always has existed.

Because we were our own country, people. Since before time began. Yes, we're like Chuck Norris. But when the mortals decided to recognize us, I'm a Tennessean now. I guess I live here. Are you still claiming Texas? Texas is still my home.

I've lived here about equally as long in Tennessee, but I'm still a Texan. It's ingrained. It's in your soul. There's just a pride there that people don't get. Good job. Bless them. Bless them. it people don't get good job bless them bless bless them um i i was in i think i told you i was at a hunting trip in in uh in another state and they were telling me like well we can't do that on this land and we can't do that on this land and i kept saying this is your land and

they're like yeah we can't do that on this we can't do that we have to call this person to do this and the text enemy was like they can't tell you what to do on your land and they're like uh they for sure can i was like revolt like anyway they weren't having it so today's song of the day as we wrap it up from the one and only gene autry song's called deep in the heart of texas and it goes like this the stars at night are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas. The prairie sky is wide and high. The coyotes wail along the trail. The rabbits rush around the brush. The chicken hawks are full of squawks. The oil wells are full of smells, and so has Ben. And the cactus plants are tough on pants.

And that's why perhaps they all wear chaps. Perhaps, but maybe not. The cowboys cry, woo-hoo! The doggies bawl and say, you all, the cactus plants are tough on pants. Deep in the heart of Texas. Stay tuned for more geography lessons. Love you guys.