The Dr. John Delony Show - I Feel Trapped as a Caregiver for My Family

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   I feel trapped as a caregiver for my elderly mom & special needs sister Trauma Stewardship: An Everyday Guide to Caring for Self While Caring for Others - Laura van Dernoot Lipsky & Connie Burk Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle - Emily Nagoski & Amelia Nagoski How does our family stay balanced with a toddler & new baby due any day? I'm comparing my grief to my husband's after putting our troubled adopted son in a group home Lyrics of the Day: "Muzzle of Bees" - Wilco   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: family, sickness/illness, anger/resentment/bitterness, kids, parenting, workplace/career, adoption, grief   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.`

On today's show, we talk all about family difficulties, how to grieve, how to share expectations, and what happens when you have to sacrifice what you want to do in order to take care of those that you love. This is a good one. Stay tuned. Hey, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. We talk about your life, your mental health, your relationships, grief, struggling, whatever's going on in your life. Let me know how I can help. We're here to walk alongside you as we all figure this out together.

Give me a shout at 1-844-693-3291 if you want to be on the show. 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. johndeloney.com slash ask. And we have big exciting news on today's show. James provided the lyrics of the day So if you want to see what's going on in that guy's head Just hang on Just hang on

And at the end of the show you're going to find out And by the way I cannot kick this cold I feel like My face is going to blow up See I thought it was allergies. What's the difference? Well, one can get all of us sick and one can't. Oh, I've got allergies, everybody. Allergies. I mean, through the 18 panes of glass. Thanks for caring about me, James. I put some medicine on your desk.

I'm just going to use some essential oils and end up in the ER again like an idiot. Oh, man. This is Deloney After Dark. We're for sure doing this. And, hey, I think, James and Kelly, can we do this?

We need to have a show that is just going to be all positive. It's going to be all about puppies and hope, happiness. We're not going to have any callers because we don't get those. Wrong show. We are. We're going to have an all-happy show. It's going to be called The Sunshine Hour with John Deloney.

What are we going to talk about? Good stuff. All right, let's go to Kurt in San Antonio, Texas. Hey, Kurt, what's up, man? Hey, John. How are you doing today? I'm doing all right, brother. How are you? Well, to quote an associate of yours, better than I deserve. Outstanding. Outstanding. So what's up, man? How can I help?

Well, to be brief about it, John, I have been forced by circumstances to become a caregiver for my elderly mother and her special needs daughter, who's also my sister. And to be honest with you, I feel trapped and resentful at the same time. And yet I'm mad at myself for harboring those feelings. So it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, I guess. That's exactly right, man. So you say you're forced to. Tell me about that.

Well, I mean, nobody's holding a gun to my head, obviously, but I have a moral compass, and nobody else can render the necessary aid, and I'm the only one in a position to do so. So I feel compelled by morality to help, and I'm not mad about helping others. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Not by morality. Let's change all that words, all that talk. Forced. Let's say you're a person of character, and you're making this choice. And the choice is hard, and it's not sunshine and rainbows. But you're choosing to do this. Is that fair?

I mean, I suppose so, yes. Morality is some existential philosophical concept it's not forcing you to do anything you're choosing to be a person of moral character which i applaud i think it's awesome and so you're choosing this and i think that's really noble and great and i can help you with that But I want to shift out of the victim language, right? Okay. Is that fair? I mean, I'm not the expert here, so I'm going to defer to your expertise in this regard. All right.

So let's change the language around and say, man, I'm a person of character. I'm going to take care of my mom. I'm going to take care of my special needs sister. And tell me what it's like. How long have you been doing this? What are the needs for your mom and your sister? So it all started about a year ago with the onset of COVID. They're both elderly, and I didn't know whether or not they would stand a chance if they got the disease.

And so I told them, hey, look, I'll do all of your shopping for you. Whatever you need, text me, I'll get it for you. And we had a whole system of sanitation that we did so that no pathogens could possibly get inside. So originally, it was just a logistical support role because at the time, we didn't know what we were dealing with. As time progressed, we got more and more information about the disease. And I said, okay, well, maybe it's not as bad as everybody's saying. So we began to relax a little bit. But then we had a stroke of bad luck. Her partner became gravely ill really quickly.

Like within 48 hours, her partner went from just not feeling well to being brain dead. Your mom's? Yes, her partner went from just not feeling well to being brain dead. Your mom's? Yes, her partner. Her partner basically died within the span of 72 hours. Oh, man. I'm sorry. That's really unexpected. So I stayed out, and I just kind of moved in temporarily and just helped her with the grief. And I'm no mental health professional.

I've got my own demons, but I knew that I needed to get help. So I tried to sign her up for some of those, um, online, um, counseling sessions and they kind of worked to some extent, but at the end of the day, I think she just grew tired of it. Yeah. Um, how long is she with this? How long was she with this person? Oh, about two years. Okay. Two years. So, I mean, it's not like they were lifelong partners, but she's, you know, she really enjoyed their company. Um, then after that she that, she needed to have a very invasive surgery, which required a very extensive therapeutical regimen. So I stayed and guided her through the surgery, and I did all the therapy. I had to go from loving son to mean drill sergeant for two hours a day. And, of course, I was taking care of the house. I was keeping

everything clean, keeping everybody fed. Uh, she has four animals. So I had to clean up after them as well, which I don't mind doing it. It's really not that hard. Objectively. What do you do for a living, man? So I actually graduated about a year ago from an apprenticeship and it was a five-year apprenticeship and doing what um uh doing construction okay um it's a skilled trade i don't know how specific you want me to be no that's cool that helps but i it's something i invested a lot of time uh and trouble then and uh you know because i want to be debt free and I want to follow Dave Ramsey's plan. And that was a long thing, but anyway, I felt like I had to sacrifice a year of my life to help. And in the long scheme of things, I think I'm going to take my last breath knowing that I did the good and moral thing, but I don't know. I just feel, I just feel burdened. I feel

like I don't get to live my own life because, you know, other people need me. You know what I mean? And that's a very selfish thing, to be honest. But, yeah, I just don't know what to make of this. Are you married? No, I'm not. How old are you? I am 34.

Okay. How old is your sister? My sister is 22 years my senior. So she is uh 56 so you came along 22 years after your sister yeah my entire family tree is really uh it's really odd that's a separate issue yeah man that'd be a whole other call that's that sounds fascinating and so what is your care responsibilities for her? Really, my care responsibilities for her are just feeding her, you know, making sure she has her medicine. She's really easy to care for, so I don't know why I'm bellyaching about it.

But it's just the knowledge that as of right now, I have to stay and care for her when I, you know, want to go out and do all these things. I want to travel to other places, work in other places. Now that I have this job, I can get a job anywhere in the United States with better wages and better conditions, but I have to stay here. So here's the deal, man. What if I told you just to go? I've got my professional expertise. This sucks for you, man.

Just move. Tell your mom I'm out. I've got a cool new thing. I'm going to move, and I'm you, man. Just move. Tell your mom I'm out. I got a cool new thing. I'm going to move and I'm going to get out of here. I've spent a year with you guys. I've worked really hard, but I'm out. Feel good about that? I could do that, yeah.

I could do that, yeah. Then what's stopping you from doing that? I guess just the idea that somehow I would be betraying my family. I don't have a large family. We're very small. Here's the thing, brother. You've backed yourself into some weird corner, and I don't know why you're doing this to yourself.

You've made it this either-or world. Either I'm going to go do what I want to do and live my life and get to use my professional talents and be a scumbag in the process, or I'm going to take care of my mom and my sister and everything I love and care about is just going to go to crap and I'm just going to have to be a martyr and I'm going to die knowing I did the right thing, but my life sucked. Yeah, that's kind of how it seems.

Why are you doing that to yourself? I mean, I don't know. I guess my experience is such that I could only discern reality by those two extremes. Well, I want to offer you a third option, man. The third option is this. Anybody with their salt and with the financial ability helps their elderly mother out, especially in the middle of a pandemic. Millions of people have to work alongside their special needs brothers and sisters. I've spent my career working with special needs folks. Folks with

special needs, better way to say that. It's hard and it's labor intensive and it's exhausting. And you choose the attitude that you bring to that. Do I want to go and see this person as a burden, as a beating, or am I going to look at this sacrifice and commitment and know more about connection and love than anybody else on planet Earth? That's the choice you get to bring to it. But right now, you're showing up at these things, doing what you think and believe to be right, and you're bringing a cup of poison with you and just taking shots of it all day. Is there anybody else in y'all's ecosystem that can help while you go build up your career? Because at some point, you've got to go make money, right?

Yeah. Unless your mom's independently wealthy and you're a millionaire now. No, no, that's not the case. Okay. At some point, you've got to go make money. Right, exactly. Um, and the community you live in is, or is it just, can you not get a job in construction where you live? I can. No, I, I, I actually had to quit my job recently because right now I need to care for my

mom right now, but here's the thing, and maybe I should have mentioned this earlier, I'm only going to be needed in this capacity just for another couple of months, because it's, have you heard the aphorism, when it rains, it pours? Of course. We've just had one major medical emergency after another that I believe necessitated me taking a sabbatical from work to help care for my family. Hey, listen, listen, right stop right there. You've experienced trauma on top of trauma on top of trauma. And I wish, my hope for you, brother, is that you can exhale and say, thank God I'm in a position to take a sabbatical from work and take care of my family. What a gift.

And I had some dreams, and they're going to be put on pause for a second, but I get to take care of my family. Dude, you can choose. It's going to sound crazy. You can choose optimism, or you can choose pessimism. That's a choice. It's a daily practice. And the more you choose pessimism, the more likely your

body is to revolt against you. You're going to end up with your shoulders slumped over and your head ducked down, and you're going to resent the very people you feel compelled to take care of. Yeah, that sounds like a recipe for toxicity. It is, and you're just mainlining it right now.

Well, you're right. I mean, obviously that's why I'm calling you. I just, is it such a simple thing as I'd need to change my paradigm? As I just need to change the way I'm thinking? Do I just need to say to myself the mantra, I'm blessed to be in a position to be able to help my family? That's part of it. That's a start. But it also, you've got to begin to take care of yourself. And that means you're going to have to move your body. You're going to have to go exercise. That's one of the number one start, starting lines for people who are stuck in trauma and

depression and people who are caught in a negative thought loop and a negative action loop and a negative behavior loop. Let's go move your body. You got to start taking care of yourself. Something I do. I actually listened to a good to your podcast while I do my daily job. That's outstanding. So add weights to it. Do something a little bit different.

Shake it up for yourself. Okay. Okay. Um, be intentional about having other people around. Do you have friends? Do you hang out with other people? not anymore

a lot of my friends have moved away so I'm kind of stuck here well not stuck, I'm isolated relatively there you go so now it's on you, go find some friends I don't care where you do it, how you do it if you gotta get a babysitter for your sister I don't care

you gotta go be with other people Your body will begin to eat itself. If it feels like you're trying to hold the world up on your own shoulders by yourself, and you're going to have to get used to saying no to your family, meaning I got to go hang out with my buddies. I need an hour and a half to go work out today. I need an hour to go to lunch by myself. And saying no to your loved ones in that capacity gives you the strength and fortitude and foundation to then do the caretaking that you need on the back end. And this is going to be a day-to-day-to-day-to-day practice. And I both love and hate this for you. Because I do understand, man, you really made a life shift. You did a four-year apprenticeship on top of school. You said,

man, I'm going to get out of debt. I'm going to do these things. I got these plans and then life happened and it sucks. I hate that for you. But what I love for you is you went meaning makings. You went looking for meaning through going to school, getting a plan, doing Dave Ramsey's Get Out of Debt plan. You went looking for meaning and now meaning is slapping you

upside the face. You get to honor. Yeah, I think that's a very polite way of putting it. Well, you get to honor and take care of your sister. You get to honor and take care of your mom.

And it is not fun. Don't hear me say this is not going to make you happy. It's going to make you joyful because it's right and I'm proud of you. I think a cornerstone of every day of your life needs to go to Walmart for like nine bucks

and buy a little journal, get a yellow pad for 99 cents, buy something and every day of your life start with five gratitudes here's what I'm grateful for and then underneath that write here's what's really hard about today and then write

your gratitudes again just make a hard hard thing sandwich around gratitudes you're not going to lie to yourself of course this stuff's hard of course you want to be doing other things. You got a few more months on this. And hey, listen, don't beat yourself up over guilt. We do that all the time. Your feelings are your feelings, man. Having to quit something you've worked really hard at to take care of somebody sucks. It's hard.

It's okay to be frustrated by that. It's not okay to bring poison to it. And so saying it's easy is like saying, how do you lose weight? Diet and exercise. It's simple, but it's not easy. Same here. Going from pessimistic to optimistic is really hard. Probably have to turn the news off completely.

Probably gonna have to get rid of social media and start hanging out with real people. Start a barbecue club over your house. I don't know. I'm just going to make up stupid stuff and sound like an idiot, but whatever it looks like, you know, you got to have relationships. You know, you got to take care of your body. You know, you got to really start working on your thoughts by writing them down and being intentional about gratitudes. Read, um, there's a couple of books here. There's one called Trauma Stewardship by Laura Vandernut Lipsky, Trauma Stewardship. There's another one called Burnout by the Nogazi

Sisters. We'll link to them here in the show notes. Read those two books. They'll give you some perspective on caretaking, on trauma, on when you find yourself in a situation that you didn't plan for and it's really hard. Now you're going to get up and keep going and get up and keep going and get up and keep going. Here's the thing, Kurt. I think you're a good guy. I really do. And it was an honor to talk to you. And I don't want to see you poison yourself every day. Don't poison yourself every day. This is Dr. John Deloney's show. We'll be right back. All right, let's go to Lisa in Roseville, California. Hey, Lisa, what's up? Hey, Dr. Delaney, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Good. Hey, first of all, just thank you for what you do and thank you for guiding people through just life.

I have sort of an overarching question, and then I'm sure you'll want to dig a little bit, which is probably your job. You do that a lot. So it's more of kind of like a practical relational marital question, but I don't know if your assistant told you, but I'm expecting our second child literally any day. So are you super, super pregnant? Oh, yeah. Oh, congratulations. Do you have any other kids? I'm over it pregnant.

I do. We do. Yes. My husband and I have a 23 month old daughter. Oh, good. Yeah. Did you say you're over it pregnant? Yeah.

I'm at the over it stage. So I guess my overarching question is like, you know, I've heard you talk on Dave Ramsey's show and kind of allude to it. Like you and your wife have lived through this. Yeah. So my question is like, how do you successfully balance a very young marriage and very young children when there's so much pressure to have it all figured out. And when culture tells you that you just need to live fast. Um, yeah. And I know that's kind of a generic question. No, it's a great question. Such a good question. So, um, yes, me and my wife lived through it.

And I would say, especially me, I'll only speak for myself, I didn't do a very good job of this. And so what I'm able to do now is, in retrospect, look back and say, man, here's what would have really helped. And as I've talked to folks experiencing what you're walking through, they're saying, oh, this is so helpful. So I think your question is remarkable. And yes, I've lived it. I don't know anybody who's got, who's had kids who hasn't lived through this. So I'm going to rattle this off top of my head here. The first thing, I think you nailed it. It's expectations. And here's the two expectations that I see people get tripped up on. Number one is that having a kid, having a second kid, having two kids under two,

we just need to get to X, Y, or Z. And then we can get our old life back. The old life where we could have sex whenever we wanted to, wherever we wanted to, we could just pack up on a weekend and go somewhere. We could just run to the movies.

We don't have a great – what's the right way to say it? That life is over. Pretty much. Yeah. And here's the thing. It's okay that it's over. And what we don't do is we don't, we aren't honest with ourselves with a period at the end of that sentence and say, so now what's it going to look like?

And somehow we think that putting sex on the calendar is less than just doing it anywhere. We think that planning for a trip this weekend is different or worse than, and it's not, it's just different. So coming back to the expectations part, understanding that, dude, you've been down this road, you're about to go through it again, right? And it's just going to be more fun because you got a two-year-old that you're going to have to navigate as well.

Let me preface a wild two-year-old, but yes, no, she's awesome. Of course she is, but she is not going to take kindly to her jungle gym is now being shared, right? Right. Not cool. So now we're back in it, and it's going to take high intentionality with you and your husband. At the end of the day, it's going to be you all sitting down saying, what does this week look like? How are you?

How am I? And being honest. Here's the one thing that most couples don't do until things are on the brink. They don't let their needs be heard. I need this from you. I don't want, because we think, I don't want to burden him. Well, I haven't done this. He's going to think, I don't want to bother her. We have to be at a place relationally where we can let our needs be heard and give somebody else permission to say, I can't meet that need for you right now, or I will, I'm going to do that, but it's going to cost me this. Just being able to speak to one another. And all that comes

back to is intentionality and expectations, right? Yeah. And that kind of piggybacks off what some people have told me is that, you know, you can, especially because, I mean, my husband and I have been through a lot. I, I got married a little bit later and then like, boom, two months later we had my, you know, I got pregnant with my daughter and life happened. And so neither of these have really been planned pregnancies and perfect world. Like we plan our life. We have the materials, we have the finances. We have everything in order. But we know that's not how it happens. So I guess a little bit of a struggle that I have now is that, you know, when my daughter was about a year old, my husband kind of made it very clear. He was like, I don't want any more kids. And so this pregnancy, I think men can be different.

You know, he's prior service army. He did two tours in Iraq. He is a recovering alcoholic. And so I have felt some resentment and despondency on his part. And so that's where I'm at right now where I'm like, oh, man, like, you know, but at the same time, I'm like, you know what? It's both of our responsibilities. This is what we signed up for. Did you call it out? Well, yeah.

No, you didn't. No, you didn't. I mean, I pretty much, I did, but like, Hey, you don't pretty much sit down with a two tour veteran who's also recovering addicts and sort of you have that conversation or you don't. Right. We do. But yeah. And so that's why I'm at where I'm like, okay, like, you know, when you get married, you support one another and you raise your kids together. I just don't want, you know, this child to be like an added stress. Like, oh, like, is he going to go back to drinking? What are you talking about? Of course it's going to be an added stress. It's a new human.

Yeah. Yes it is. So here's what you got to do. You got, you got to recognize two things. Number one, everybody has permission and I don't care what anybody says. You're allowed to go, Oh crap, we're having another kid. You're allowed to not be super excited about it. You're allowed to go oh crap we're having another kid you're allowed to not be super excited about it you're allowed to not like that kid sometimes you always got to love them and you always got to show up but you don't have to like it right yeah you cannot fill in the blank it doesn't have to be all sunshine and rainbows and in fact it won't and that comes back to expectations we think it's supposed to complete us and then we have no psychology for when it doesn't right it just i just have to just call this out you said uh we had decided this was

going to be our last kid there's like super a way to do to decide that and y'all didn't we did it we absolutely did it and that's why it's like, you know, it's our responsibility. And I know that he's going to shoulder it because that's his personality. But, you know, I agree with you that the expectations are probably something that I need to think more about and be more mindful of and be aware of. Create a space where he feels safe to say what's going on in his heart and mind in his house. Yeah. And that comes from you going first and saying, I'm really scared about this baby. I'm scared that this baby is going to push you over the edge.

And so early on, I said there was two things. One, it's expectations. Here's the second thing. You have to, have to, have to, both of you, take care of your mental health, your physical health, your spiritual health, your relational health together. And that means being really gracious with each other about, I need to go for a walk. I got to sleep. I need to go work out. We cannot keep eating donuts and Whoppers. We got to be intentional about our health, whatever that looks like for y'all, got to go see a counselor.

You got to be hyper-intentional about those things so that when those stressors come, you've got a foundation to deal with them, right? Most couples think that this stuff just quote-unquote happens, and that's how you wake up and suddenly you are way far apart from your spouse, way further apart than when you started. You both have gained 50 pounds. You both don't like the way you feel, the way you look, the way the other person is treating you. And that's a recipe for disaster. So the intentionality starts really early. Does that make sense? So you're saying just really like nurture your relationship, your marriage relationship, make sure that's healthy too. And so that way you can be a good parent because that's kind of what

I've been told is that people can get so caught up in raising kids and like doing what life that like they neglect their relationship with each other. And that's where you don't want to end up is like in a place where you haven't fostered and nurtured your marital relationship. And then you're like, oh, shoot, like I don't even know this person. I haven't communicated. So, yeah, no, that makes total sense. The greatest gift you can give your children is a really healthy, wonderful marriage. Yeah. That's the greatest gift.

And the way to have a healthy, wonderful marriage is two people who are highly intentional about working through conflict, doing the things they need to do to keep each other healthy and themselves healthy. Always coming back to the well and talking and always coming back to the well and forgiving and being kind and giving each other a space to talk. All that stuff's really important. And hey, listen, you're like going to have a baby at any minute. Yeah. You can think of all this stuff later. Right.

You're about to... I'm trying to think of a non-rude way to say this. later. Right. You're about to, you're, you're, I'm trying to think of a non rude way to say this. You're about to focus on the now, like don't stop, like trying to project into the future of like, what if, what if,

what if, like, yes, everything about in the world is about to change everything. And here's the thing, you know what I would love to do? I would really love for you guys to get 30 days in and i want you both to call me back yeah he actually wanted to be on the

call and i was like yes i want someone to pry information out of you because it's like so here's the thing you know in 30 days after this baby's born and you'll have a 24 year old climbing all over you you haven't slept he is just pacing around the house thinking, I don't know. I think Ramadi is a little bit less chaotic than my current house. And you are trying to figure out what to do with this new kid because you think you got to figure it out. And this new kid is going to be totally different. Then you all call me back. And I'll walk alongside each of you as you figure out, okay, you're 30 days in to a pregnancy that wasn't planned, but was it not planned? It was kind of planned. If you're not planning,

not planning, you're planning. Is that how you say that? If you're not not planning, you're straight up planning. Man, but hey, enjoy it. You're about to go through one of the most miraculous events ever. He's going to look at that baby. He's going to be all in. And if he looks at that baby and he's not all in, he's going to have to be all in anyway. And then give me a shout back. But y'all are in it. Be present for this. Don't be thinking down the road on this one.

This is going to be awesome. All right, let's go to Marie in Detroit. Hey, Marie, what's going on? Hey, how are you, Dr. D? I'm good. How are you? Doing okay. I'm kind of sleep deprived, so just bear with me.

Uh-oh. We have a little one. How old? Okay. Our littlest is seven months. Oh, you're super sleep deprived. Yeah. How about this? I have a great idea. How about don't even ask a question. You can just put your head down and just sleep for 10 minutes, and we'll just have silence on the podcast. That sounds great.

All right. Go ahead. What's up? Okay. So, okay. We kind of have an interesting situation here. So we have five kids. Our oldest is eight. He is adopted from foster care. Um, and he has some pretty severe mental illness and like abuse in his past. Um, so actually at this point, he's not even living in our home due to the severity of his behaviors. And this has just been like super difficult for our family, for me and my husband. And we're just kind of grieving that he's not here.

And my question is like, my husband and I are not grieving the same. And it's been really difficult on our marriage. So I guess we're just looking for some advice on like the mismatched grief and just how to like navigate. That's awesome. Thanks for that question. So you got five kids, eight and under. Yeah.

And one of them, is he in a home now? Yeah, he is. Okay. Was he violent, hurting himself? he okay yeah yeah and are your other four kids are they biological they adopted too um they're biological okay so you adopted who came first what was the order yeah we adopted first okay um and so when you say grief is mismatched that's a super common challenge but before we get into that I just want you to exhale for a second and you live in a really really chaotic home and that's okay but I want you to give you and your husband some grace right now

because what feels like is channeled towards grieving differently is probably both of y'all responding to chaos differently. You got five kids under eight or eight and under. That's a hurricane. I got two and I don't even know what day it is. Yeah. Right, that's a lot, a lot, a lot. Did y'all plan all five of these? Yeah, we did.

We did. We just like always wanted to have a big family. Awesome. And yeah, it's just been tricky as the oldest one, his behavior has just kind of gotten more and more severe as he's gotten older. So I woke up one day and we were like, oh man. Walk me through how y'all are grieving differently. I mean, honestly, for me, like I'm just being really vulnerable. I've been like devastated. Some days I can't get out of bed.

Really down. My husband kind of just acted like he just kind of had to be the rock. He's just trucking along, doing life. I think it's just tricky because I'm like, are you sad? Are you okay? I don't know. I feel like we're just on different levels right now. Um, so yeah. Um, so are you resenting the fact that he can get out of bed? And I'm not, I'm not saying that in a mean way. I'm saying that in a, is this,

does it feel like he doesn't care as much as you do that you lost your son? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Is he frustrated with you that he just wants you to snap out of it let's get to it we got four other kids around here we got to get up and going no definitely not no he's like amazing and it's like you do whatever you need to do i'm here to support you you know i'm here for you so so let me promise you this. Your husband's heartbroken too. And he may look at a situation where he's got a wife that he loves with a newborn. And like you said, he had to go into rock mode to make sure the bills are getting paid and kids are getting fed. And that's okay. But it sounds like you need to give him space to grieve. And some people just don't fall apart. I do.

I'm somebody that needs some time. Some people aren't. They just don't. And some people fall apart to where they fall apart, fall apart. Right? Have you all sat down and talked to each other about the grief? Yeah, I mean, we've tried, and he just says that he feels, like, okay, and he just, I think he's more at peace with the decision than I am. Yeah.

So I want to ask you a hard question that's to a sleep-deprived mother of a newborn, which is really not cool. How would you like him to be grieving differently? What would make you feel like he's grieving the right way? I don't know. I guess I just, I don't know. I don't know what it would look like, but maybe just be like more I guess what I don't like about it is it makes me feel very distant from him because I feel like we're not in unison on it

and maybe that's the hardest part like I want to feel like we're kind of conquering it together and it says it feels like I'm kind of in the valley and he's on the hill like hey you're going to be okay does that make sense yeah Like, I'm kind of in the valley and he's on the hill like, hey, you're going to be okay. Yeah.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So the way I would reframe it is you are in it together. Both of you lost your son, man. And y'all were trying to do the really noble and remarkable thing through adoption. And it's hard, hard, hard, hard. You're super in it together. What I'd love for you to do is to paint a picture of what you think his grief should look like and what your grief feels like and let him do the same thing. And just because it doesn't look the same doesn't mean you're not together.

My guess is you're much more, if you remember back to the very first biological kid you had at seven months, I don't know any couple that feels totally in sync together relationally, right? That's just a season of distance. And so expect that. And I don't want you to take what's happening with that seven month old and lay it on top of what's happening with your son, right? Those may be two separate processes. You may be healing, man, your body still is not yours. And then your husband's running around, but dude, I think y'all are really close into this together. When you say you feel distant, what does that mean um I think I feel I don't know maybe like guilty that I'm struggling so much and that like he can be so okay there it is right there it's not about him this is about you yeah dude I didn't even have to say it that makes makes my heart feel good. Way to go. You're way down the road, Marie.

Yeah. And listen, your grief gets to be your grief. Mm-hmm. And it sounds like you got a pretty remarkable guy standing by you saying you grieve however you need to grieve. Mm-hmm. Is that fair? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It is.

Is he trying to solve you all the time and fix stuff, or is he just letting you be? No, he's amazing. He's just like, I got the kids, I got dinner, you do what you need to do, I'm here for you. He's amazing. Okay, so here's what I want you to do. You've raised five and grown four. Mm-hmm. and grown four. I want you for the first time, probably in a long time, put both of your shoulders down

and just relax into that dude's arms. You get to grieve however you need to grieve. Okay. You are worth grieving. Do you believe that? Yeah. Like I said, I think I feel guilty because, you know, we have four other little ones that need us. And I still feel guilty that I couldn't help our older son stay in our home.

You know, and there's just a lot. It's a hard situation. Yeah. You got to put that guilt breakdown. Yeah. Will you do me a huge favor? In the evenings before you go to bed and if your husband would do this with you, it'd be awesome. I want you to write down some of those feelings.

Actually write them all down. There'll be about 10 or 15. It'll take about 10 minutes to do this, but write them down. I let my son down. I didn't whatever today. I was a pretty good mom today. I was a pretty good wife today. I want you to write those feelings down. And then with your husband, I want you all to mine those for evidence. And I you to say i'm out loud and look him in the eye when you say him and say

tell me if this is true or false and all you're doing is you are feeling those feelings you're allowed to feel them they're real you can't deny them can't depress them down but also you've got to begin to learn to not let them run your life because some of them aren't true. You didn't fail a son, your son. In fact, you're continuing to take care of them. You're not failing your two year old by grieving.

You're not failing your four year old by grieving. You're not failing your seven month old by grieving. You're not failing your husband by grieving. Okay. But you're going to need him to look you in the eye and smile and say, Nope, I love you. Okay. Okay. But you're going to need him to look you in the eye and smile and say, nope, I love you. Okay? Okay.

You promise? Yeah, I do. Excellent. Marie, you're a rock star mom. He's lucky to have you. And man, I can't even wrap my head around what it would be like to lose a kid. To have to send a child away because they were violent in my home, they weren't safe, heartbreaking, should have done this, I could have done that.

Man. If you get to a place where you can't get out of bed, where the weight and the heaviness just gets heavier and heavier and heavier, please, please reach out to your doctor. Reach out to a counselor in your community. Go get some external support there. Okay? But you get to grieve how you grieve. You have permission to grieve. Thank you so much, Marie.

All right, let's wrap up today's show. James. You're going to like him, man. You're going gonna like him man you're gonna like him eventually I am America and the internet I'm not a Wilco fan just not

I've heard Jeff Tweedy's a great writer I haven't read his lyrics and all that blah blah whatever but James brought me a clutch one which one do you think? they're both about animals. Flying ones at that. Let's go with Muzzle of Bees.

Muzzle of Bees. James Child's favorite song of all time. That's not what I said. And it goes like this. James' favorite song ever written. And it goes like this. What record is this off of? This is off of A Ghost is off of A Ghost is Born.

That is a good title. I'm going to give you that one. Offie, A Ghost is Born title. James Child's favorite song. He actually named his two kids, Jeff and Tweety. Goes like this. There's a random painted highway and a muzzle of bees. My sleeves

have come unstitched from climbing your tree. I don't know what that means, but that is a good poetry right there. When dogs laugh, some from climbing your tree. I don't know what that means, but that is a good poetry right there. When dogs laugh, some say they're barking. I don't think they're mean. Some people get so frightened that the fence is in between. The sun gets passed from tree to tree silently, then back to me. Dude, this is making me a Wilco fan, man. With the breeze blown through, pushed back against the sea, finally back to me. I'm assuming you got my message on your machine. I'm assuming you love me, but you know what that means. The sun gets passed from sea to sea silently and back to me.

Debris blown through, pushed up above the leaves. Debris blowing through my head upon your knee. James Childs, I'm going to give you that one. That's a good song right there. You're welcome. That was strong, quite strong. This has been the Dr. John Deloney Show.