The Dr. John Delony Show - I Had a One-Night Stand With My Wife’s Stepmom

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

On today’s episode, we hear about: ·     A husband hoping to rebuild his marriage after a one-night stand ·     A woman questioning if she should break up with her longtime boyfriend ·��    A girlfriend struggling to manage her boyfriend’s grief Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John’s Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼The Dr. John Delony Show T-Shirts   Connect With Our Sponsors: ·      10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp ·      3 free months of Hallow  ·      25% off Thorne orders  ·      20% off Organifi with code DELONY ·      25% off plus 2 free pillows at Helix Sleep ·      $350 off Pod 4 Ultra at Eight Sleep  ·      40% off Cozy Earth products with code DELONY ·      20% off DeleteMe with code DELONY ·      10% off the CORE Package or the ALL-IN Package with code DELONY at Marek Health ·      Use promo code DELONY for a free hat or tee with your first order at Poncho Outdoors   Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do me and my wife rebuild our marriage after I had a hookup, I guess, with her stepmother? We were all drinking together, and then it was just me and her stepmom in her apartment. I kind of pursued after that. So your marriage is over. You're not going to rebuild this. What up? What up? What up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. Talking about real people going through real challenges in the real world. I guess it might be on the internets, but in the real world. And we're talking about your mental health, your emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. All right, here's my big, big ask. We are now knocking on the door of 1 million YouTube subscribers. I always tell people who cares about the metrics.

This is kind of a big one, and I've just got to be honest and say that would be kind of rad. So if you'll take a second to just subscribe, send this episode to somebody who you think would benefit from it. We're so close, and we'll throw a milli-party, but bigger than that party. Kelly, what party are you going to tomorrow night? I am going to see Creed And I have to say I was on the original I was all in to go

Yeah, because you owed me money for the ticket For like a year Did you sell it? Yeah, and he paid me within five minutes I would just like you to know That's cool You probably know how Venmo works But I've got an event out of town I've got to

go to, so I'm very sad. Yeah, originally it was me and John and two other guys from a different team, and then John couldn't go, so somebody else is going. But yeah, I'm going to... You've got your black tank top, your Marlboro Reds, you're ready to go. Let's bring it. Come on. And your strawberry shortcake towel or whatever you're sitting on.

Okay. I was telling him, the amphitheater we're going to, if you're in the lawn, you can only bring a three by five, which is a napkin, by the way, blanket. And I just don't want to get eaten up by bugs. So I searched all over for blankets that were under a three by five. And the only ones I found were these at the dollar store, these children's travel blankets. So the three guys that are going with me

get to choose between Strawberry Shortcake, Unicorn Cat, and Bluey. I can't think of anything that feels, unless they, if they serve drinks out of like golden, like, like chalices, that feels creed to me. But other than that, a bunch of dudes sitting on Strawberry Shortcake blankets

just feels right. Yeah, because there's one that was Five Nights at Freddy's, and I chose that one because murder. Yeah. Because murder. Man, I'm kind of jealous. It's going to be a great night, and I'm so bummed that you're not going. I would be hoarse, and

we wouldn't be able to shoot shows, and when you told me this morning you were listening to the playlist, just thinking of you with a Karate Kid headband up in your carpeted little gym. When I worked out this morning, I lifted weights to the Creed playlist. Yes, I did. That's the most.

She was wearing leather pants, y'all. It was incredible. Let's go out to Jacksonville, Florida and talk to CAM. What's up, Cam? How's it going, Dr. John? C.A.M. What's up, Cam? How's it going, Dr. John? I'm good, brother. What's up, man? I guess I will just cannonball right on into this one. The question is, how do me and my wife rebuild our marriage after I had a one-night stand

or hook up, I guess, with her stepmother? Eric, let's just as they say, back that thing up. Say what? Yeah, really just a wild situation. In all seriousness, what happened?

We were all drinking together. We all killed a bottle of tequila, the three of us within the hour. And then it was just me and her stepmom in her apartment. My wife went downstairs with the kids and all that good stuff, and they were swimming. And basically, she was asleep, and I was on the couch just waiting for her. I was going to wake her up for her work call. She was like supervising or whatever and had to end up like send a closing email. So I was staying there making sure she woke up to do that.

And when she woke up her, uh, top fell off, she was wearing a bikini, her top fell off and put it back on. And then I kind of like pursued after that. And, uh, so your, your, your marriage is over. You're not going to rebuild this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can't think of a more egregious violation, man. I can, uh, kids and beyond kids. This. Yeah, it's definitely. Yeah. You've blown it up. I think the integrous thing to do is to treat your wife with dignity and respect. I can't think of a more dishonoring thing you could do to somebody, man.

I agree. It was the biggest, dumbest decision I've ever made and my biggest regret. How long have you been married? This year would be five years were those kids yours? it was her one of them is

and she was with my her little brother and sister as well okay so your wife has two kids by somebody else? no she she

there's three down there one it was just one that was our daughter that's the only kid we have and then the other kids were her stepmom's kids.

Okay. Her brother and sister. So, obviously, you know this. This is just, like, insanely sensational. And it's going to make for good YouTube clips and all that. And you also know that what you did is, like, it's just the lowest thing you could do to somebody. So, I'm not going to kick you while you're down anymore.

Like, what's the world been like since then? thing you could do to somebody. So I'm not going to kick you while you're down anymore. Like, what's the world been like since then? I've just been trying to figure everything out. I've been really, really hard. I mean, I've you know, I've been trying hard to forgive myself and to

you know, just work on myself is all I can do at this point. I mean, I me and my wife are cohabitating right now we're still in the same room and stuff um we've been able to go and do things together and they've been civil and then you know nothing nothing crazy our marriage wasn't perfect before this by any means obviously or this wouldn't have even been close to happening. Does your wife want to stay married to you?

She's in limbo right now. What's the limbo? We just need to work on ourselves. We've been attached to the hip since we were 17 and really lost ourselves in our relationship. relationship we just um got you know got together real quick and moved out of state after that real quick and then had a baby by 18 and so our whole life was just each other and baby and then that that's not a bad thing and that's not a reason why you hook up with somebody's mom not at all there's never a reason why that it should not have happened there's no i'm not trying to make any excuse i've tried to take accountability from the you know sure i'm saying like i'm saying like the

there's like this just annoying cultural narrative like you got to go find yourself i mean you don't you you you make a commitment with somebody and you'll figure it out right y'all decide we're going to build something together. So what do you want to do next? I want my family more than anything. And I understand that I've blown that up and I'm just trying to, I just can't think of not coming home to my daughter every night and not come home to my wife every night. Like it just doesn't,

life doesn't seem like there's obviously Obviously, there's more to go. I mean, I'm 23, about to be 24, so there's more to go. You're a quarter of the way done. First quarter's up. I just can't see life without them. I really can't. Because you'll have a child together, unless you're going to abandon this child,

you will be in each other's lives forever. Right. Right? So that's, that's, that's a given. Um, I don't know unless y'all have some sort of defining,

the only word I could think of right now, and this isn't accurate, this isn't right, but this is the word that's in my head. Y'all have to have some sort of line. Like I'm thinking of the word funeral keeps coming to mind. You have to have a funeral for what was. What we had is over. And as you described it, the stumbling from 17 into 18 to, oh my gosh, we're parents to trying to make it all work to, I got really wasted and hooked up with her mom. Like that is all over. And you, you got a dropped into a coal plunge. Like you're an adult, right? And when you're 18, 19, 20, and you have a little one, it's easy to kind of still be a kid, but also be a parent. You know what I mean?

Like you're a grown-up adult who may have just blown up his whole life. Definitely blew up his whole life. Right. So there has to be some sort of line drawn. This was, and now this is. And that might be you sitting down saying, okay, I have blown up our life. What we had is over.

Both of us have to be adults and sit at this table and decide what we're going to do next. Do you want to be married to me? And she's probably going to say, I don't know, because the thought of answering that question is, she knows her life is different now, is blown up, but I don't know that she's metabolized it. Right?

Yeah, it's definitely taken some time. It's only two months ago on the 8th. And the fact that the knife that cut her is still sleeping in the same bed, it's just really close. So it might mean you go on saying, I'm going to take 30 days for you, and'm gonna go live with my mom with a friend with whatever and let the smoke clear right and we we did that for about two weeks i would say and then my uh staying at my mom's and she lives off a dirt road though and a bunch of storms came through and made it pretty inaccessible to get through especially with my car and so then went to the couch

and then kind of went from there went back into the bed and what not it doesn't sound like she's ready for you to be back yet yeah harsh I mean does she work? not as of now

she's been at home with her daughter. She's going, I think she's actually starting today to get her GED. She's going to the local schools out here and doing the testing and stuff like that. Okay. She didn't get it. So she's taking the GED today? Yeah, sure. She's starting the classes.

I think she's taking the pre-quizzes and pre-tests and all that stuff to see where she's at so i want to challenge you okay um i know that the life of your daughter will be different without a dad in the home okay i know that i also know that a wife living in terror of her marriage will negatively impact your daughter as well. And so I can imagine your 22 or 23 year old wife hearing the most insane news ever and having to stay in the same lion's den of the lion who just mauled her present and her future because she has no money. She has nowhere to go. Right.

And so part of me thinks it would be of high integrity to you for you to say, honey, you're trapped, and I know that. Is she still flinching around you? There are good days and bad days. We've been able to go to the movies and we were just able to, this last week we went to the escape room together and went to dinner.

We're still doing things like that and able to laugh together. I've been able to be intimate and hug and kiss her. And then other days it's not going like that, which I completely understand. I want to challenge you to sit down with your wife and say, you've heard me say this before, but I want you to hear me say it again. I blew our lives to smithereens. And my ultimate dream is that you will rebuild something new with me.

But I also know that you need time to breathe. So for 30 days, I'm going to go live here and I'm going to take care of all the bills at this house. You're not going to worry about anything. I want you to be able to breathe. And I'm going to write you a letter every day and put it in the mailbox. I would love for you to breathe. And I'm gonna write you a letter every day and put it in the mailbox. I would love for you to write,

maybe you present her with a nice journal, like something you go somewhere and buy a nice one today and put it on the, I want you to get this stuff out of your body and write down, because I know I hurt your ad. But if you keep hovering and she is legitimately trapped as a 22 yearyear-old with a high school diploma.

Does she even graduate high school? No, sir. Okay. She's got nothing. And she has to tread water. You've heard of fight or flight, right? Right. There's another one called fawn where you have to nuzzle up next to the person who just tried to kill you or just blew up everything because you've got nowhere to go.

It's the safest place for you. That's her. Okay. Do the next dignified right thing and give her a chance to breathe and make sure she's got no worries when it comes to money for the next month. Okay. And I guess I have a kind of a wimpier question for you based off of that. Then,

um, I, I just feel like we've both established that we're both just codependent on each other and that you know I don't know it's just hard for me to you don't even know what that means dude

that's a couple of 23 year olds googling what that term means very true so don't try to give any diagnostic excuses. You got to be a grown man. You're 23. You just blew your family up. You have to say, okay, I'm going to do the next right thing, which is to let my wife stand back up on her own two feet because I knocked her down.

And then we're going to come to the table and I'm going to say, I'll do anything it takes. What does rebuilding trust look like? And after 30 days of the smoke clearing her, catching her breath, she may look across that table and say, nothing, you slept with my mom. Right.

Or she might say, here's what it's going to take. I'm going to need this, this, and this, and this. And then you, as a grown man,

have to make a choice. Does that make sense? It does. And I'm not trying to minimize the situation or make an excuse, but I didn't fully sleep with her mom. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It happened.

And it's try to take accountability from the beginning and just go from there. I thought she didn't find out or anything. I sat her down and told her, which also doesn't make a difference. Right. I mean, it is what it is what it is. And you need down and told her, which also doesn't make a difference. Right. I mean, it is what it is what it is. And you need to understand from her perspective, she lost her mom too. Yeah. Like she's lost everything.

And there's past trauma from her stepmother as well. I would imagine so. I would imagine so. And so I think that we're doing the next compassionate right thing which is you're going to have groceries the rent's taken care of, the bills are taken care of you're going to be able to breathe even if you want to go one step further

which I think you should I'm going to help with child care whatever you got to do I'm going to give you 30 days and then at the end of 30 days I want us to go eat breakfast at such and such place and I want us to ask the breakfast at such and such place. And I want us to ask the question, are we going to stay married?

And I want you to tell her, I hope we can. And I understand we got to rebuild everything. Okay? But I want y'all to have a date on the calendar when y'all going to come back together. Right. That makes sense. And say, text me if you need me to come get our little girl But we're not sleeping together We're not hugging and kissing

We're just taking a break Is that cool? It's gonna suck But if that's what's needed I'll do absolutely anything to To move on from this Even if it's not in the direction that i'm hoping for okay the thing you can do next you can't undo what happened the thing you can do next is be a person of high

integrity and honor moving forward and that's just been eating me alive too because i've you know it's thrown my moral compass so off because i've always told myself i wasn't that person i would never be able to do that and you know i've looked down on others that have done that and be like, okay, well, they can do that to the person. They say that they vowed everything to, they can do that to me. That's right. That's right. And so you, you are now have to reestablish trust with you. Right. And that means you have to do the next right thing. You can't will it, or you can't think it into being, you just have to act it. You have to do the next trustworthy thing. I've often found trust rebuilding. If you have other people in your life that you've wronged, it'd be a good time to get on the phone and call them and say, you're sorry. It's doing the next right thing with your wife and with your kid. It is going to do some

acts of service. So twice a week, want you to go go to a food kitchen i want you to go do the next right thing that's bigger than you so that you can re-establish trust with yourself if you go to the local church once you go sit with the pastor and say hey here's what i did man i blew up everything i was one of the very first things i did good i went there talked with them with the therapy. We've done couples therapy. We've done, tried to do that stuff. And couples therapy didn't really seem to help. She didn't really give any, you know, tools to use or any kind of plan of action.

Yeah, sometimes going to couples therapy right after something this big is like trying to go to PT instead of into surgery. It's like being in a car wreck and going straight to the physical therapist. It's not time yet, man. It's still gotta, you gotta reset the bones and stitch somebody up and take out all the bad tissue, let those wounds heal.

And then you can start going to physical therapy. Right. Like it's just, it's just a matter of going too fast, man. Um, yeah, It's just a matter of going too fast, man. Yeah, I think you can do the next right thing, man. And I hope more than anything that your daughter doesn't grow up without a dad.

And so if your wife decides, hey, I just can't move past this, such a horrific violation of our marriage covenant, I hope you will honor her and say, I get it. And I'm going to be the best dad and co-parent I can be. I'm going to be an adult. I'm going to be a grown-up, even though I'm sad and I'm heartbroken. And I hope you will do the things you got to do to rebuild trust in yourself. And maybe by God's grace, she comes around and says, okay, I'm going to go slowly, but surely we're going to rebuild this marriage. And here's what trust is going to look like.

Reestablishing trust. You can't drink. I want to see your phone, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And you're going to say, cool, I'm a hundred percent in. Cause I believe in you and I believe in us and I believe in, um, being a good dad. This is a big one, man. It's a big one. Go slow, go slow.

You will not fix this in two months, three months, six months, one year. It's going to take a long time to rebuild this. Constantly focus on doing the next right thing for you, for your daughter, for your wife, for your marriage. Make sure to call, brother. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right.

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Hi, Dr. John. Thank you for taking my call. Thanks for calling in. Let's shake off that last call. What's up? What's up? So I was hoping you could help me with something I've been dealing with. So my boyfriend and I have been dating for about five and a half years. Good

God. Why? Why so long? That's what I want to talk to you about. Is it you or him? It's him. Oh, it's him. I'm ready. I've been ready for a while. He's known, I told him on our two year anniversary, I thought he was the one that was ready and he's just not there yet. Okay. So my question is, how do you know, like, how would I know if I should still be patient and give him more time or when it's time to potentially walk away from the relationship? He doesn't need more time.

No. What else is he going to learn about you? I do feel like I've grown a lot. We all have. If y'all had gotten married two years ago, y'all would have grown into completely different people. That's the beauty of being married. Okay. You're not searching for this one place where you're finally going to arrive and solidify yourself in concrete and finally be his the one.

You're going to be a wonky, wobbly, goofball-y Anna. And you're all going to get married, and you're going to find out weird things about each other, and you're going to continue to wake up every day and say, all right, I chose her, so what do I do next? I chose him. What am I going to do next? Okay. And here's how I know this.

This is me speaking from personal experience. I dated my wife for five years. And I'll never forget, I was fishing with my buddy. Me and Ryan were fishing. It was late into the night, and fishing is probably overselling it. We would throw catfish lines out, often catch nothing, but catching fish was just an excuse to sit on the side of a lake and hang out together.

And he said, when are you going to marry that girl? And I said, man, I just love being single. And he looked at me and said, I won't use the words that he used. I'll edit them for this, but he said, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You're the lamest single guy I've ever met. You don't go out.

You don't, you're not like playing the field. It's not like, he said, I think you're just a coward. And I remember going, oh gosh, I've been thinking this is about her.

It's not about me. It's about me. Has he given you any hints or ideas as to why three and a half years after you told him, I think I'm ready to call it with you, you're my guy, that he's like, nah? Yeah, and I have them here. I asked him a couple weeks ago. Please make me a list. Please make me a list. Please make me a list.

Oh, this is going to be great. Okay, go for it. I actually did ask that, and I don't think it went as well as I thought. It's kind of hard to hear, but I do have my list. Okay, go for it. His biggest one is losing his identity.

Yes. He will not only lose his identity, he will set fire to it. Yeah. And he will create a new one with you. Mm-hmm. Because that's what marriage is. It's not this parallel track

we take together. Yeah, he said that it kind of feeds into a lot of his reasons, but he's scared that I'm going to be too stringent, which I am,

kind of stringent, but he's scared he's going to live a life that he does not enjoy with me. And that's him saying's going to live a life that he does not enjoy with me. That's him saying, I want to break up with you, but he's too much of a coward to do that.

And I'm sorry to say that. No, I appreciate it. I, I've spent a lot of time in this relationship and I know this has been a big, heavy thing for me to think about how old are you I'm 27 he's 30 okay I think we have a tendency especially no I think you know what I was gonna say young age but I think all across the board that we look at relationships like a 401k

I put this much time into it and this much effort into it, so it needs to ROI here. But my question I would ask you is, what have you learned about Anna over the last five years? I have learned, and first of all, I've learned I like control a lot. So about a little over a year ago, I actually hired a Christian life coach and we've been working on that. When I first met him, I was very shy and I still am. And I was very much like I'm never going to like I was scared to travel. But now I'm going on solo trips. I went to Europe. Like I've really opened my shell.

That's amazing. I'm traveling all the time. So I want to tell you, if you don't end up marrying this person, the last five years aren't a wash. Oh, absolutely. I've grown so much and learned so much. Like I don't regret it at all, regardless of what happens. Yeah. So why is he continuing to date you?

Even though he said, I think being with you As your husband Would cause me to live a life I don't want to live Probably Comfort We are long distance now And we have been for about half the relationship Okay

I know his parents Don't get a vote who cares about his parents no they love me they i'm just saying like all good yeah if they're very controlling it doesn't surprise me that he's been dating somebody who's controlling because his body wants to solve that problem yeah and he's also i don't know if i'm controlling but you said i mean you said like you've been controlling right but he's also I don't know if I increased rolling but well you said I mean you said like you've been controlling

right but he's also married somebody who's been controlling and who's actively in the process of doing the work to open her hands that's what love

and growth looks like he's just choosing not to do love and growth he's choosing to do love he's not choosing to do growth with you it's fair and that breaks my heart for you To do love and growth. He's choosing to do love. He's not choosing to do growth with you.

It's fair. And that breaks my heart for you. God is good. I know something good will come out of it. I think the thing for you is to ask yourself, what has come this good out of it? You're traveling the world by yourself. You got in with a coach to see, like, what are some practices I can do that are different, right? Yeah.

You learn what love is, and you learn what love's not. What else did he put on that list? Part of the stringency is church. We're both Christians, and church is very important to me. I'm at church unless I'm traveling or sick. I'm at church pretty much every weekend. He he's not, he does love Jesus,

but he doesn't put church as a priority. And he's scared. Like, cause I have told him me and my husband and my future children, whoever they are, we're going to be going to church with family. And he's told you, I'm not. He says he will. Yeah, dude. Yeah, probably.

Most guys I know do one thing for five years and they just switch it on the dime. Yeah. I mean, when we're together, we always go together. Yeah. And yeah, the other one is he's, there's a lot of, it's kind of funny saying these now, but he wants to find more activities that we have in common first. And you hear it when you say it, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, now I do. I'm, I'm, I'm sorry. Thank you. Tell me, tell me where this is in your body right now. Where are you feeling this? I'm sorry no thank you tell me tell me where this is in your body right now where are you feeling this in my gut

yeah is it heavy mhm did you already know this before you called me um I'm one of those people I don't really

give up on people it's like once you're someone in my life I'm gonna do everything but I've been't really give up on people. It's like once you're someone in my life, I'm going to do everything. So I've been fighting for this for a really long time. Can I reframe that for you? Yes, please. I don't think you're not giving up on him.

I think you're loving him the way he is asking to be loved. He's asking you to honor his wishes. You're giving up on trying to build a home all by yourself while somebody else sits in the front yard in a lawn chair and says, I'm not building that house. I want a different house. So you're giving up on that building project. You're not giving up on him. In fact, you're giving him exactly what he wants because you love him. And that's to open your hand and let him go. Just heart.

And I know there's so many amazing people out there, but he really is. Don't go there yet. Don't go there yet. Just be sad. Okay. Be sad. I'm curious why he doesn't have the courage

to just end it with you. He's a level 10 people pleaser. So he's kind of a coward? That sounds more harsh than people pleaser, but maybe. He would rather lie to you and string something along instead of honor you and let you go because it's going to be uncomfortable for him. Yeah. He would rather be comfortable and have you at the end of the line instead of either reel you in or cut the line. Yeah, watching somebody else drown and not do anything about it

is cowardice. And you can call it what you want. You can call it people pleasing. You can call it any sort of fill in the diagnostic. But he knows what you want because you're

a pretty amazing person and you've called it out. Here's what I need. And he's a pretty amazing guy. He's called it out. He just what I need. And he's a pretty amazing guy. He's called it out. He just won't take the next step. So I think if I'm you, the next thing I would do is,

when's the next time y'all are going to be together in person? Labor day. For about three weeks. Okay. Personally, I get, I'm pretty obsessive about things, and so I'd probably be on a plane today, but that's just how I roll.

That's not healthy. That's just how I do it. If you have to because of finances or work or schedules or whatever, if you have to wait until Labor Day, I would tell them, I see this list, and there's just simply some incompatible things, and so on Labor Day, we're going to get together, and we're going to have the hard conversation like adults across the table. Are we going to go our separate ways?

Okay. Somewhere along the way, you have told yourself that it's your job to shore up all of his insecurities. That was something me and my life coach went through the list and we both agreed that I can't really solve most of these things. You can't. And that's not an indictment of you. It's not an indictment of him. That's just a puzzle

piece. It doesn't fit. And these are about values for you guys. These aren't about beliefs. If it was about beliefs, like, we both agree on working out. Well, she likes to run and I like to ride bikes. Alright, we can get married. That's great.

We'll figure that out. But value. I will be in church every week, period. And my person I marry will value that like me. And my kids will be raised in that environment. He's saying they will not. Yeah. Then we've,

we've done, we've drawn a line and it's been five years. And I just think you're worth, I think you're worth somebody looking at you and valuing you the way you have chosen to value you. And he does too. He does too.

Definitely. My only beef with him is that he hasn't been, he does too. He does too. Definitely. My only beef with him is that he hasn't been, he hasn't called it. Yeah. Not to make excuses for him, but he does have a very chaotic, stressful life, a hard job.

And I think he's just trying to clean some of that up. That's exactly you making excuses for him. Okay. I heard it too. Yeah, right. Right as you said out loud. Yeah.

There's a counseling practice that you just ask people to say their thing out loud and record it like on a little device or on their phone and just play it back. And it's often,

oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was so negative or oh my gosh, I didn't realize. Right. You have that dialed in right when you say it. I can hear it like,

oh no. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, it sounds like hard conversations in order. And for everybody listening, I don't fault either of these people here for drawing lines in the sand and for having boundaries. And people are allowed to feel how they feel. the only beef I have here is he's made a choice, and it sounds like a while ago that what Anna needs and wants in her life for her future partner is not going to be him. And so my expectation is that when somebody gets there,

they don't choose the path of, well, I want to be comfortable, so I'm going to let this person just dangle at the end of this line until they decide to cut it. I'm going to be a person of integrity and look you in the eye and say, I love you. And I've had an amazing time with you.

I don't think we are forever. I'm not going to choose to be forever with you. And live in that discomfort and that heartbreak and those deep, deep tears and that loneliness and that vacuum. And it will be heartbreaking. And if both people are living in integrity, the son will come up. He will come up. Or maybe he looks at you and says, I'm crazy to lose you. I'm going to work on these things. Will you work on them with me? And now you got somebody maybe you can build a life

with. Thanks for the call, Anna. Hey, let me know how that conversation goes. Whether you get on a plane today and go visit him or you wait for three weeks, I want to know how that conversation goes. Whether you get on a plane today and go visit him or you wait for three weeks, I want to know how that conversation goes. My hope is that both of you can say the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, and y'all can come to some resolutions so that we can both get some peace, whichever way you go. We'll be right back. All right, off to Atlanta, Georgia to talk to kathy what's up kathy hey how are you i'm just man today's been a heavy show so far hopefully you'll bring some some joy and light i'm just playing with you what's up what's up i'm doing great

um well my question is about grief um because why not all. So it's not a high stakes question. My relationship is not in crisis. I just have a question about grief. All, all, all, all questions are heavy. So it's, it's all good. So what's up? Yeah. So my boyfriend and I have been together for two years and love him to death. It's a great relationship. Um, but his grief over his mother's death is showing up in ways that I find kind of unpredictable and surprising. And I'm not sure, one, like how I feel about it or two, like how to like how to deal with it, like how I'm supposed to be responding. When did his mom pass away? Seven years ago. And I've never met her because we've only been dating for two years. And I should say that his relationship with his mother, that was his whole family. His father left when he was very young. His father died some years later.

There's no grandparents. There's no aunts and uncles. There's no siblings. It was just him and his mom single mom them versus the world um and so she passed but also like that that's kind of like his whole his whole family passed away at once um so i recognize how hard it is well in the context of this call um i'm gonna say some real direct things that i would be a lot more gentle with just because we would have longer to talk if we were just hanging out in person, okay? Mm-hmm.

And they're things that will probably sound harsh, and I don't mean for them to be. It's just me being as honest as I can, okay? Seven years ago, your husband's entire world went away. That's exactly right. How old was he? I guess he was 32 at the time. Okay. So he's knocking on the door of 40? Yep. Okay. This is a, it's a, it's not a nice way to say this, but some people occasionally in grief, they get flash frozen. Everything stops. And it's not that you ever get over somebody, but you do continue to

grow. And you shift from a daily feeling as though this is happening in real time to an honoring. But for most people, it takes pretty conscious, a a conscious choice or if you've listened to this show a long time you've heard me say hey you've got to let that person go rest because your hands are still tightly wound um seven years is not a long time to miss your mom seven years is a long time to be held hostage by the moment mom passed. Do you get the difference there? Yeah, I do.

I feel like he's like a sand castle he's holding on to and it's like blowing away one sand, that piece of sand at a time

and he can't scare them, I think. I don't know. Yes. And what I would say part of healthy grieving is not trying to hold it. It's sitting with it as it blows away. And I don't ever want to put a time limit on how somebody grieves, but seven years is a really long time. Yeah. That has been a choice to try to protect the sandcastle. And when you, I love

that analogy. That's a great analogy. I'll protect the sandcastle. I love that analogy. It's a great analogy. I'll probably reuse that someday. But when you cover up the sandcastle to protect it from the wind, you miss the sunrise and the sunset. And you miss the people that walk by and say hi. And you miss the person extending their hand saying, hey, I'd love to dance with you. And that's that flash frozen.

That's that stuck in the moment. And I can't think of any other word other than that's a choice seven years later. Not that on her birthday, his body doesn't just shut down and he weeps. And that's, man, that's normal. That's life. That's you and me against the world

and then you passed away. Tell me how it's showing up in your relationship and your dating life. I mean, we have great communication, it feels like, about everything. We can talk about really tough stuff. But when it comes to her, I just, I can't figure out how to talk about her or how this grief is showing up without kind of getting my head bitten off. Like I, I went to organize underneath the sink the other day and I moved her shampoo

and it was a meltdown or I throw away a piece of paper that doesn't mean anything to me. And I assumed it doesn't mean anything to him. And, and that's a meltdown. So it shows up kind of in the, we have a city house and the country house and this is the country house that he inherited. And so that's where we go on the weekends. And so it shows up kind of physically in that house a lot. And then it shows up like in his decision making a lot too. Like he still like holds grudges against a restaurant that didn't treat his mom well once and said, no, we can't go there anymore. Or some neighbor that said something mean is still holding those grudges or the stocks that she bought and left to him.

He won't ever sell those stocks, so let's just hope they keep on going up. It's like the decision-making is also what she would have wanted as opposed to what he wants a lot of the time. Or, and maybe what he wants is what she would have wanted, but I just feel like I'm, I'm just along for the ride. You are. When it comes to those types of decisions. You're feeling, you're feeling so right. Yeah.

He's not well. He's not well. I just, we are so good in every other area. I just, and I feel like when I try to bring her up, I can't. Kathy, you don't know him. You don't know him. Because he is frozen in time. Okay.

He's frozen in time. And I'm not going to tell him he doesn't get to do that. I'm going to tell you he's missing out on life and you're trying to solve a problem that you can't solve. And that is a 40-year-old man has chosen to not metabolize his mom's passing seven years ago. He's choosing to sit down in the middle of that loss and and um not grow yeah and i reject the language of you just get over something you don't you don't get over your single mom passing when

it was you and her versus the world you don't get over your husband dying you don't get over that kind of stuff you don't get over your wife dying your mom like but you do acknowledge the sun comes back up and you do seek permission to laugh again and if you have no family you're awful like skin peeling off painful mission is to find a new set of ride or dies yeah not to lock down on something that doesn't, it doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. And that feels right. Cause it feels like there's times when I'm trying to build a new family with him. He is stuck in his old, stuck in the old. Yeah. Hey, you're not crazy. And can I tell you something else? How old are you? I'm 39. Is this your first guy that you thought like I could be married you've been

married before I've been married before when I was much younger okay um so this is the first guy in a long time where yeah can I just tell you I'm sorry about that too no thank you I hate that for you because you started making plans didn't't you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sucks. You know what sucks is too trite. That's like what high school kids say. Like, this is heartbreaking.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Do you think I can have this conversation with him where I say, like, I think you're stuck and I think you should talk to someone about being stuck? Like, it feels super scary to say, but. You have to be the one. Here's what I'll tell you. The litmus test for a new relationship is not that you're not going to be sad. Right. Like, let's say my wife passes away and I marry somebody else whose husband had died. It would be insane for me to think that there's going to be a week of that, or there's going

to be times that she gets struck by lightning with these thoughts or memories or feelings of another man. That's what I married into, right? Right. My expectation would never be that that goes away and that his memory is erased from the world. That's impossible. That's a part of the person I would be marrying.

What I would expect as her new husband, as her new friend, as her new whatever, is we can have the hard conversation. Of all the things you've said to me, the thing that makes me the most, that I think makes your relationship the most tenuous is there are off limits things to discuss. There are things frozen in time,

like shampoo bottles, like old pieces of paper, like stocks that may lose value. And I can't think of any parent who would give their kids something and wouldn't want that something to be of maximal joy and benefit to them. Not, I want you to hold this

and write it all the way till it loses everything. Right. I'm a parent. I would never want that for my kid. Yeah, I'm sure that's not what she wanted. I'm sure it isn't. But it's frozen. Right. And when you, when you can't make that leap to, okay, not, I'm still going to her for advice, but I'm not going to internalize her wisdom and her strength and her grit. And I'm going to apply that to the lessons and the love she gave me and the things she taught me. I'm going to apply that to the world. And as much as she loved me, I'm going to apply that to the lessons and the love she gave me and the things she taught me.

I'm going to apply that to the world. And as much as she loved me, I'm going to find a special somebody and I'm going to love that person. You see what I'm saying? Like you apply. Yeah. You take it and it's in honor of. It's not in place of. And so the fact that you are asking me after two years, y'all live together?

Yeah. Okay, y'all are making a home together. There are still things you're not allowed to talk about? Yeah. That's a huge set of red flags for me. Yeah. I mean, this is the thing. And I, he just gives me a, I'm going to deal with it in my own time. You know, I have to do this on my own. I'm going to deal with it in my own time. And I can't express how it affects me. I just never get to that part. Well, and I need you to believe in your bones that you get to demand the same thing of a intimate relationship you're in, which is I'm not going to have secrets and we're going to work through hard things together

and we're not going to brush grief under a rug. We're not going to freeze it in time. And if I'm not in a place where we, that I can be trusted to build a new life with you, I honor you, but I'm worth that. I'm worth more than that. That feels really true. Like that feels really true to be able to say to him,

like we are partners in every other way. We intend to build a family together. So I, I can say I need to be trusted with this part of you too. Like this part of you can't be locked away. And let's take grief off the table for a second. Cause that's so third rail. Right.

Okay. Yeah. My mom is the raddest lady on the planet. She's just rad. She's amazing. When I married my wife, my wife became the most important woman in my life. Period.

That was the choice I made. And so forget the fact that he's still hobbled by her death seven years ago. He's still choosing every day to wake up and let mom be the most important person in his life. And not the person he has invited to move in with him, not the person he's sharing his life with. And what I want you to hear me say is you're worth being number one on that hierarchy. That feels good to hear. Also like a little scary to hear. I didn't wonder if this is just like normal mother-in-law stuff.

No, this one happens to have passed away. No, no, no, no, no, no,

no. If, if she had died six months ago, a year ago, absolutely. It's a mess. It's a mess. It's a mess. Yeah. It's a mess. It's a mess.

Yeah. Seven years ago, he's making some choices to stay put. And he gets to do that. If he was sitting with me, if he called the show, I would offer him a different path. But he's not on the phone with me and just you are. Yeah. Is that fair?

Yeah, totally. I want you to trust your gut on this one. You're not crazy. How about that? Yeah, that does make me feel better. I guess I was afraid that I was just supposed to kind of ride this one out and let it take its time. It's been seven years. Yeah.

And at this point, the thing that makes him feel the safest is to imagine mom is still here and to not, in my words, let mom go rest. I just have this picture of this angel and he's got a rope and won't let go of it. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. It's the sand castle or the angel on the rope.

That's it. Hey, I left you money. I left you a house. I left you my good looks. I left you grit and determination and I left you five lifetimes of love because it was just me and you. Yeah.

Let me go rest and I want you to go live a rambunctious, maniacal, fun, adventurous life because you only get one. Yeah. And that's really hard. And I can't do it for him.

There you go. There you go. You're not crazy. And I'll tell you what, I wish both of you, like, just a huge exhale. I wish you both peace. I also want to be honest and say, man, it may not be with each other.

Yeah. And for that, I'm heartbroken with you. Yeah, I just, I wish I could fix it. I wish there was something that, there was a role for me to play. I wish I'd met her, you know? Maybe. Maybe she would have been mean to you. I mean, who knows, right?

Who knows? But maybe she was amazing. Maybe she was amazing. The challenge is he's chosen to be with you romantically for two years to bring you into his life. Y'all have real estate together. Y'all are trying to build this life, but you're doing all the building.

He's staying in his old house and he's not interested in building something completely new with you. And he's not interested in letting mom go. And I'm a firm believer. You can't rush grief. I can't push somebody with two hands into choosing to live with that reality,

but what I can do is sit with you and light your cigarette with you and just point out the sunsets that you're missing and the sunrises that you're missing and the laughter and joy that are still here when you're ready. And I'm with you, sister. I wish, man, we could snap our fingers and make one call and he'd be like, oh, you're ready. And I'm with you, sister. I wish, man, we could snap our fingers and make one call

and he'd be like, oh, you're right. Few things harder than when we realize we're powerless to change even those that we love deeply. We just have to ride with them. Or we have to let them go. Thank you for the call, Kathy. I wish you guys the absolute best. And tell him to give me a buzz if he ever wants to

would love love love to talk to him y'all have a good one we'll be right back I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements my favorite supplements on the planet have continued to partner with me and our show listeners

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Man that's gonna be the uplifting show of the year My goodness What's up Kelly what do you got? After that Everything I kept trying to find I was like nope Nope so this is a good one I'm not crazy that was a tough show It was a very tough show.

There was a lot of very heavy stuff. We need to come with like a I don't know, like a whiskey warning or something. Hey, by the way, so I got text messages this morning. I got Instagram. What did I, did I say on a previous

show something about Wally Wally What? What did I – did I say on a previous show something about Wally – what? Wally Wanger, I believe, was the term you used. I said Wally Wanger? Yeah, when talking about the – It was Wally Wanken, actually.

Wally Wanken? Oh, yeah, a guy, Wally Wanken, talking about the guy that wanted – his girlfriend wanted to go to the strip club. Oh, a male strip club. Yeah. And it was something along the line of some guy, Wally wanging up on stage or something. My brother texted me this morning and he was like, Wally wanking, and he just had like 700 laughter faces, and I was like, I don't know

what you're, what are you talking about? Because even in the, even in the episode you're like, I don't even know what that is, I just made it up, but it sounds, sounds like what they're doing up there, so. I, I can't think of, I should be in the dictionary dictionary because that's what's happening. Well, sorry about that, America. It's a disturbing term. I'm not going to lie.

Man, we're going to lose. We're not going to get to a million with me talking like that. Well. Wally wanking. All right, so what's the social post? The social post for today. I generally utilize these little black text box notes on IG to post things I've done that I've recently messed up in my life. These notes are almost always little notes to

myself that I post in hopes that someone else might benefit from my failures or from something I've learned along with my years of working alongside people. So today, I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being in my gang. Thank you for posting and liking and reposting. Thank you for disagreeing and for correcting me and for laughing and following. I'm grateful for you. I thought given the fact that we just hit a really great number on subscribers on YouTube,

this was a great post. Yeah, same. Thank you. And I'm finally coming around after a couple of years of playing on the pretend internet worlds. Like, I guess it's everything's context. And I think that's why I've been trying to figure out like why I hate social media so much. And I think it's that.

It's I will snap at my kids. And I did this morning, man. I made a face like I was trying to lift and my daughter interrupted me like nine times in a row. And I have headphones on that block out the world. And I kept taking them off and taking them off and taking them off. And then she came back down and I pulled, just ripped them off. And I was like, what? And she was asking me a question that was not worthy of that response. And she, I could tell it was just too much. It was so stupid of me to act like that. Well, that's when often I'll make a post or my daughter comes in and says, daddy,

you want to dance? And I'm in the middle of writing something that has of a no importance. And I'll say, no, I'm doing something. And she'll just drop her shoulders and walk off. And I'll make a post that says, hey, if your daughter ever asked you to dance, the answer is always yes. Just stop what you're doing. And so there's always notes to myself. And it's amazing how frustrated people get. Like how dare you say this to me as I'm indicting, like I'm following them around their homes. And so often, almost always, it's a note to myself.

But again, it's that it comes across in 2D. And so it just depends on what glasses you're wearing as to how you see certain things. And so anyway, that's me saying, hey, these notes are to me, right? And if they ring true, man, I'm so glad that my stupidity can help somebody go, you're right. I need to remind myself to say yes. My daughter asked me to dance. But more than that, I just want to say thanks, man. If someone takes the time to write in and tell me that they hate me and they think I'm an idiot and whatever, you know what? I'm glad that you spent the time to write in. And if

you're with us and feel less alone out in the world, then I'm glad that you're with us. It's just over the weekend hit me like a million people is a lot of people, right? That's a lot of people. And so I'm just grateful that people are riding and dying with us. Pretty cool, man. Actually, nobody's died with us yet, but they're still riding.

Hope not. Yeah. Hope everybody's riding and living. That sounds lame. Doesn't rhyme, though, That does not have the same, uh...

What was that show with Jax? Sons of Anarchy? This doesn't have the same vibe to it. Yeah. Hey, guys, we're riding and living. Yeah.

That didn't sound right. That was a great show. I've got to ride or die. It was a great show. Kelly loves her some Jax. Yes, I do. Bye, guys. Bye, guys.

Bye, guys.