The Dr. John Delony Show - I Left My Kids in Another State and It Was a Mistake

Episode Date: July 7, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: A woman regretting leaving her kids in another state for her new husband’s job A man wondering if he should reconcile with his mom after she left them for a Twitter affair A woman wondering if it’s okay to leave her husband while he’s in rehab Lyrics of the Day: "She Can't Save Him" - Lisa Brokop Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I had to leave my older children with their dad in New York. And you met somebody new. Y'all had a kid, but this guy lived in Chicago. Well, my current husband kept saying, well, it's not fair that I get to be a part-time dad. All of this is predicated on your husband's job. Yo, yo, yo, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Show where we talk to real people who find their lives upside down, either by their own doing or life has happened to them, or they have been stuck and stuck and stuck. And they don't know what to do next. And so this is a real show with real people. We're talking mental health, we're talking relationships, we're talking marriage, kids,

whatever you got going on in your life, my promise is I will tell the truth and I'll walk alongside you. And if I don't know the answer, I'll reach out to some of my expert colleagues all over the country and do my best, or I might just say, I don't know. And sometimes there's not a happy ending to every one of these calls.

Sometimes reality is hard and it's scary and it's going to be long-term or there's two or three or four gnarly choices, but we're going to do this together. And so if you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. And please, please, please,

please, you can change everybody's life. That's a little bit dramatic, but please just take a second to hit the subscribe button or the like button or the thumbs up button or whatever buttons are on whatever device you're... Just buttons. Hey, listen, Apple, Google and Spotify and everybody. Can we just universalize how people say like, I like the show. That would make my job easier. All right, let's go to Jeanette in Chiton in Chicago.

What's up, Jeanette? Hi, Dr. Zaloni. It's a pleasure finally getting ahold of you. It's a pleasure to talk to you. What's up?

Uh, lots. So I'm not sure where do I begin? Cannonball, cannonball right in the middle. All right. So I'm here in Chicago. Actually, it's an hour outside of Chicago, Illinois, but just for viewers and listeners, Chicago, I guess is a better point, reference point. So I moved out here originally from New York about a year and a half ago. I have a blended family, and it's becoming extremely, excruciatingly painful for myself, my children, my marriage, the entire move. And I feel that it's been perhaps a mistake. I'm not sure how to undo the damage or how to move on.

What brought you to the Chicago area from New York? Um, about eight years ago, I met my current husband, and he lives here. And so we decided throughout different options that it would be best for us to get a transfer from my job at the time out here as opposed to him moving to New York because he had a job with pension and all sorts of benefits that were not transferable. Hey, Jeanette, you were being so, so careful in your language. Can I be super honest with you? Please. You did something that you're not proud of right? what is it? what did you do?

I can feel it how professional and carefully do you work for a large company? yes I can tell by the way y'all communicate with one another and so just cannonball in, what happened?

I had to leave my older children with their dad in New York. How old? Well, my oldest is 21 now and the middle one is 17 but it was a year and a half ago and nonetheless it's very difficult yeah so let me let me back out so eight years ago you met somebody new y'all had y'all had a child together well not right away right but you left your you left your previous marriage and you met somebody new y'all had a kid yes but this guy lived in chicago and so it was a long distance thing it was a long distance relationship for a very long time up until a year and a half ago what changed a year and a half ago. What changed a year and a half ago?

It became very difficult for me to raise a little one by myself. I was juggling work, daycares, and my older children were champs. They actually helped in a lot. When I couldn't, when the daycare was closed due to COVID, they would always help me out so I could go to work. And why'd you take the opportunity for them to keep helping and being a part of their family away from them? Um, not sure. Um, he, well, my current husband kept saying, well, it's not fair that I get to be a part-time dad. Here's what's not fair. All of this is predicated on, ah, geez, man. All of this is predicated on the most important thing in this relationship is your husband's job and for him to keep his fantasy little world he has to break up one unit that's

already been broken up once because it's not fair i don't what's not fair is he married somebody and said, choose me over your children. That's not fair. Because anybody who marries somebody who already has kids via another marriage has to know. Those kids have to come first. They have to. Your 17-year-old's a child she looks tough and she acts tough and she's been through hell and back and she grew up in New York so she probably walks a little taller

she's a child and that child needs her mama right yes even though we try to FaceTime as much as we can that's not a thing no

I mean that's not a thing. That's not a thing. I mean, that's not a thing. I bring them out here as much as I can. As much as I possibly can with our crazy schedules. It's just not the same. And he doesn't seem to understand.

Oh, he understands he doesn't care, Jeanette. He doesn't care. Because that was part of your old world and he is your new world. And so he doesn't care. I think there's more to this. Tell me I'm wrong and I'm perfectly okay being wrong. Kids are one thing, but I think you've run into a stark reality after six or seven years of fantasy land Which is like long distance relationships. It's so fun. You can be super you can be super intimate Electronically or on the phone. It's very different when homeboy won't pick up his underwear Or it's very different when like why do we have to be so loud or so quiet or whatever

the thing is i'm wondering if you moved to chicago and you in your marriage that you've been in for a long time are wondering what have i done and the kids are just a part of that is that fair yes that's very fair so what do you do now that's the good question i don't know because it seems that since i've been here our marriage has and our relationship and communication has gotten worse we hardly hardly ever talk. He just comes in, goes right to his phone, goes to bed, starts all over again. Next day, we have different work schedules and we hardly ever see each other now. And it's funny because when I lived in New York and we had a

long distance relationship, he made time to see us. We would FaceTime. We would talk. We would communicate a lot more than we communicate now. And I've tried. I've called him, said, hey, we should really

set some time aside to talk about our future, what we need to do. And he always gets either defensive or loud, and the conversation has to end. So he responds like a child. Yes, and I've said this to him. I said, please don't be a man-child.

He doesn't like that term. Well, I mean, I have't be a man child. He doesn't like that term. Well, I mean, like I have a seven year old and sometimes she'll come in just and respond really loud and it's disrespectful and we deal with it, but also she's seven. It's pretty normal. Right. It's not normal for a grownup with a job and a wife and a kid. Right. Right.

I want you to be very, very... Do what? We've also done therapy, and after a while, he just... He just dies out. I want you to be very careful about dragging your kids into this. Cause I don't think they're the issue. I don't want you looking at him and saying, I have to move back because of my kids.

Cause that's not wholly true. But you're going to have to deal with the shame of two marriages that didn't work. The lost decade almost i mean you know you know all those things right all those feelings you will have whether they're true or not true it's all going to come it probably already all is crashing in on you and him deciding to sue for custody and all that mess and splitting time across two cities and two states. I mean, all of that. It's just, it is the reality, right? Right.

The way you're describing it, I don't see a smooth transition unless he just lets y'all go, which he might just do. He might want his little peaceful world where he can just have an imaginary girlfriend on the phone and via FaceTime, but he gets to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants to in his regular life. Maybe, but he may have been around. How old is your daughter?

The youngest one is five. She just turned five. Golly, that poor girl. Yeah. All right, so I've been talking a lot how can i help you um that's the question how do i fix this mess how do i go about fixing this how do i do more talking to him do we do more marriage counseling he doesn't seem to respond well on the marriage counseling front. He's been, and this should have been, I guess, the red flag for me, but he had previously been married twice. But we always ignore those little pesky red flags.

I mean, those are huge, giant, wavy flags, right? Yeah. They're not little pesky red ones. It sounds like the thing you haven't done through all of this is ask yourself, what does Jeanette want

and what does Jeanette need? And you've got to start with that question. Because you're going to counseling and you don't really have a definitive destination of where you're trying to counseling and you don't really have a definitive destination of where you're trying to, to head with this relationship. It's almost as it's almost like you're stuck in a,

in a freeze cycle and the fight, flight or freeze, you're just kind of stuck. And I can imagine it's unnerving because you're probably a gangster at work, right? You're probably really good at your job. Is that fair? I would assume that. Just say yes. Just say yes. You do good at your job. And then it's so perplexing as to why this stuff all doesn't work.

And it's easy to just almost just sit and drop your shoulders, kind of put your belly out and just kind of sit almost like Buddha and just be like, I don't know what to do. And maybe we'll go to counseling. Maybe we'll go to the gym. Maybe we'll start reading a book. Like there's not really any goal other than not this. And so it's kind of like getting in your car and being like, I just don't want to be here.

I'm just going to drive. And then you both end up in different places. And so I think you've got to ask, where do we want to go with this? What do I want to do with my relationships? What do I want to do with my kids? What's the best thing for this five-year-old little girl? What's the best thing for my 17-year-old girl who's about to transition into full-blown adulthood. And my influence over her will transition from you have to, from one of force to one of influence, one of partnership. And that's a tough transition. You remember those days.

That's a tough transition for any of us. Oh, yeah. You got to ask yourself, what are those situations going to be like? How do we navigate that? What do I want? What do I need in that season? I mean, that's where you got to start. And then you have to be very, very clear with this dude, your husband.

Here's what I need. Here's what I want. And it sounds like, if I'm being honest, you've probably heard me say this over and over on the show, behavior is a language. It sounds like he's being very clear. Jeanette, I don't care what you want. I don't care what you think. I don't care what you feel. This is what I'm going to do.

And you can't be married like that. You can't be married like that. I'm not, I'm terrible at gambling. I'm awful at it. I'm comically awful at it i'm wrong almost all the time um but i'd be willing to bet that he's talking to somebody else too given the way you described how he interacts with you and that he's got more of a relationship with his phone and he's got a multi-year history and it would not surprise me if there's other

people that he's communicating with in some shape, form, or fashion. And I think it's just sitting down and getting to the bottom of that. And nobody wakes up and says, man, I really want to be divorced twice. It's hard. It's really, really hard. I've got some of my close friends in the world. They've experienced this and it's just tough. It's, it's, it's shape-shifting because I thought people who got divorced twice were those people, not me. And here we are. And you got to own the reality that this is where we are.

And then what are we going to do next? I think you got to go sit with somebody, whether it's a close friend there in Chicago, whether it's a therapist, somebody in your local community and say, I need help sifting through the nonsense. What do I want and what do I need? And then I got to be real clear about saying those things out loud, very directly to my ex-husband, to my kids, to my husband, and to the mirror. And you got to stick to them.

But I think the running and the hiding and the I don't know and the ambiguity, you got to stop. You got to stop because you're bringing your kids underwater too. Call anytime, Jeanette. So sorry what you're going through. Let's make it right. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks.

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Homeboy called my bluff. What's up, Nathan? How are you today, Dr. Deloney? I'm good. All right, so to set the stage here, the last show, we reached out to your wife. She wrote a letter, like an OG pen and paper letter. Oh, yeah, she said you loved them. Do what?

She said you loved them. Oh, I do. I love them. I love them. But usually people send letters like they're real happy or thank you so much. Or here's how, because of your show, I'm doing this now in my life and my life's better. Your wife's letter was like, hey, I'm dealing with this. And I was like, man, we got to reach out to her.

Well, then halfway through our conversation, I'm like, man, I really, the person I need to be talking to right now is your husband. And if he would call me, that'd be awesome. And then here you are, man. Oh, yeah. Kudos to you, brother. Kudos to you. Hey, just so you know, she talks really good about you when you're not around. That doesn't happen a lot on this show, man.

So well done, dude. Well, way to be a husband of integrity who honors his wife, man. That's cool. All right. So you, in your voice, recap what's going on and how I can help. A letter. So, um, I do know, you know, she was talking about my mom and the whole situation with her, with her leaving and the way she left, uh, kind of put a strain on, you know,

mine and her relationship, not my wife's, but my mother's. And hold on, hold on and hold on hold on oh man is it almost exactly as i thought it was going to play out so for everybody your mom um met somebody on twitter right after 30 years of marriage 30 plus years of marriage just surprises everybody. Everybody thinks she went out for a run and she moves away. And then she sends a message to your brother that says, I didn't just leave your dad.

I left all of y'all. This is over. And then disappears. That's exactly how it played out. It's a lot done back really. And it was what, three, four or five years ago? Let's see. It's a lot to unpack, really. And it was, what, three, four, or five years ago? Let's see. It's right before me and my wife got married.

Yeah, this is also a week before your wedding or two? Two months, actually. Good gosh, man. Yeah. All right. So I'm in dangerous ground. Both of us are from Texas. We both know we don't talk about each other's moms.

Fair? Fair. Yet I got to talk about your mom. Is that cool? That's fine. That's what I called. I'll be as respectful as I can. What your mom did was one of what I would consider a core evil.

Do you agree with that or no? Yeah. I you agree with that or no? Yeah. I do agree. What part of you is still trying to hang on and fix this relationship or make it right? Man, it's one of those deals with the heart.

The heart says one thing and the head says another. And it's real hard to cut ties because at the end of the day, that's still your mom. But she was so specific in how she cut ties with you. Right. And, you know, it's one of those deals that's like you want to come up with a reason for why she did what she did. There's not one, man.

Maybe between her and your dad, but not you. Right, right. And it's just one of those deals, I guess, it's real hard to accept what she did. And like I said, you come up with the reasons, and it was, well, it was better off for her to cut the ties to make herself feel better. And, you know, it comes down to basically selfishness.

There you go. Is what it is. Yeah. And you will never know, ever, the dynamic behind closed doors of your mom and your dad's relationship. That's like, no one will ever know. The way he looked at her, what he said,

what he whispered, good, bad, awful. No one will ever know. Yeah, and that's what's so hard about it is, you know, you saw the outer dynamic, you know, what they put on display, 33 years of marriage. And then my dad worked a night shift, and for him to come home in the morning and she's just gone, she left her ring on the table, all the jewelry that us kids and grandkids had bought her, she left it. And just up and left, didn't tell anybody, didn't say anything to anybody. The only person she told was her sister, and that's how we found out she left. And it's just that betrayal, I guess.

Yeah. And I would tell you that the success of your future marriage, the success of your future parenting, and the success of your future emotional health is contingent on you making peace with that betrayal, not trying to fix it. Right. Because you can't. It's so unimaginable. It's not unimaginable for a wife to get fed up

and leave her husband. That happens all the time. And sometimes good for, I mean, way to go, right? But to take all the kids' jewelry and to just try to control, alt-delete a couple of sons and a daughter, that's evil. That's the embodiment of it. Has she tried to circle back and say, I'm sorry, and how's my kid?

How is she making her way? Because your wife's question was, I don't want this woman in my house. And, but I also want to, I want to love my husband. And I know he's in a weird spot. Is she trying to make her way back in or are you trying to create a new path? Honestly, I feel like I'm trying to create a new path because I don't know if my wife had told you, our son was born two weeks ago. Oh, congratulations. Oh, dude, and you've got this picture that's not going to happen. Right.

And, you know, me growing up, you know, I had my grandparents around, but it wasn't, you know, the hallmark, picture perfect, you know, nothing ever is. But, you know, I had my grandparents around. They helped us out. And the older I get, the more I look back and more of my memories are a word for them. I feel like a lot of resentment towards my grandparents, and I don't want that for my kid. Nathan, you can't control that. Right.

Your mom cannot be around your kid. She can't. She's not a safe person of character who I would put in the life of my child for a number of reasons. But the hurt you felt and the pain you felt when two months before your marriage, your mom just evaporated in front of you and sent a note saying, I'm leaving you too. And here's all your crap back that you've bought me over the years. I'm not putting my kid through that or the chance that would happen.

Now, if you know anything about me and the show I'm always about Redemption always if she comes back to you on her knees saying I committed a core core violation to the soul of my children and I'm so sorry and y'all wanted to start a multi-year process of regaining trust and regaining connection and communication still before you ever see my kids. I'd support that.

I'd support that. But you're setting up a recipe for disaster in your home because your wife is looking at the woman who destroyed her husband. And after you've picked yourself off the ground, bloody, scraped up, completely torn in two, your wife hands you your first son and you're heading back to that same dragon that got you the last time. Right. You've got to grieve the loss of that picture, brother, because it's gone.

She left. And dude, I hate it for you, man. I hate it for you, man. I hate it for you. Have you been anything other than angry? Have you wept yet? Honestly, probably not. I mean, when she first left, us kids came together real strong.

And then shortly after we got married, you know, things kind of fell apart. And that was probably the last time I basically felt any emotion around my family base. I usually just, you know, it's one of those things, you just kind of try to suppress it and work through it. No, you don't. You don't just suppress it and work through it. I don't. It's not suppressive, but I channel it through my work. I'm a hands-on guy, so I just do my job, and I work through my process.

I signed up for BetterHelp. You always talk about that, and I did BetterHelp and talked to my therapist, and he helped me through a lot of stuff. Good, good. Here's your homework assignment, okay? Mm-hmm. talked to my therapist and he helped me through a lot of stuff. Good. Good. So, um, here's your homework assignment. Okay. Hmm.

And if you ever listened to this show, um, I, I recommend this a lot, but here's your homework assignment. It's going to be unique to you. Normally we do this when somebody's died. And in many ways, your mom did right the haunting part

for you is her ghost still remains and that just it's haunting because if you are any human being at all you're a son and you're asking yourself what was so unlovable about me what's so great about this twitter guy what's so bad about your grandson for god's sake there will not be a rational answer for this because it's an irrational act and so I want you to write

and even if you're not a writer you gotta do this I want you to write your mom a letter one of them is going to be how angry you are you're not a writer, you got to do this. I want you to write your mom a letter. One of them is going to be how angry you are. And I want you for the first time to actually feel this stuff. You did this to us. I was your son. The second thing letter I want you to write to your mom is a letter about heartbreak. I'm sad. And I want that to be the start of the letter.

Dear mom, I'm really sad. I had this picture of what my life was going to look like. You were going to be a part of it. We were going to have a different kind of relationship with grandparents. You were going to be that crazy funnel grandma that whatever, whatever. And you left me and I'm really sad. And the third letter you're going to write your mom is dear mom. So we're moving on.

And I want you to let her know what she's going to miss. And here's some things she's going to miss. She's going to miss how great of a father her son's going to miss. And here's some things she's going to miss. She's going to miss how great of a father her son's going to be and what a man of character and integrity he's going to be because he's never going to leave his kids or his wife. She's going to miss t-ball games and she's going to miss when your little one learns to walk and goes and crashes into thing. And the first ER visit with a big, got to get stitches and going to miss all that. The recital and the violin concert and the karate match or whatever. You can miss it,

all that stuff. And I want you to end that letter with, I wish you the best. And I hope your life has turned out how you wanted it to. And that's it. And after that, we're setting the sucker down. And those will be three really tough letters to write.

Yeah, and they're already tough. Yeah. But yeah, she doesn't, she, not only does she not get to see your kid, I don't think you fully metabolized. She has told you, I don't ever want to see your kid. I don't ever want to see your kid i don't ever want to see you right you've got to take ownership of that awful awful gut-wrenching reality it's the worst i i can't i'm sitting here thinking um my son asked me this morning hey dad can you drop me off at work?

And he cleans out the neighbor's horse stalls And spreads manure with this tractor thing and he does a bunch of odd jobs for a neighbor on their horse ranch And I was like absolutely man. I'm leaving at this time this morning. Um, be ready to go. He's like, yes, sir And then I walked into the shower and um No, I went down to work out. And then I got up and went up in the shower and I got to thinking about a talk I've got to do this afternoon. And I heard banging on my door and I thought the kids are just causing havoc like they do in the morning. And I totally ignored it.

And I come out of my shower. Where is he? I was 20 minutes late. And he'd gone on sprinting down our driveway. That's about a quarter of a mile sprinting through the fields over the Creek to get to work on time. And I was so ashamed. I was sad that I'd done that. And I drove my car over to where he works and drove all the way to the back pasture. And he saw me, he stopped the tractor and he came over and I waved him over and I hugged him.

And I said, hey man, I told you I was going to be there to give you a ride. And I absolutely failed you. I'm sorry. I lied to you. I told you I would and I didn't. I didn't show up. I wasn't a person of integrity. And he's like, it's okay, you. I told you I would, and I didn't. I didn't show up. I wasn't a person of integrity.

And he's like, it's okay, dad. I said, no, man, it's not okay. Why do I tell you that? Nate, I'm not the best dad in the world, man. I'm trying to figure this thing out. But to send my son a letter that says, I'm leaving you too, I can't compute that.

Because I dishonored my son this morning by giving my word on something and not coming through, and I can't hardly breathe. And so I want you to own the full magnitude of what has happened to you. Because what's happened to you is one of the core wrongs. A mom looking at her son and her daughter and saying, I'm leaving y'all

And you can't avoid it you can't just suppress it you can't just work it like get down feelings get down get down you can't man Because they will resurface and they will wreak havoc on your new marriage on your on your parenting with your kids On your relationship with your siblings and on and on and on So the only path forward is through the storm, my brother. I can't tell you how proud of you I am for calling Better Help and getting some counseling. That's awesome. I want you to write these letters and in some shape, form, or fashion, commit to your wife. Before I ever reach out to my mom, before I ever try to reconnect, or at some point she wants to reconnect, we will do this

together because I'm really emotional about it and I need somebody who's going to give me some perspective and insight that I may not have when I get emotional. And your wife will say, awesome. Congrats on being a great husband and a great dad, my brother. And for everybody out there, you have to choose reality. You got to own reality. Here's what has happened in my life, the good, the bad, and the evil. And it's only from that starting line can you then ask, what are we going to do now? Where do we go from here? We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume,

seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks I want you to consider talking with a therapist Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself

Where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back.

Let's go to Savannah, Georgia and talk to the great Maggie. What's up, Maggie? Hi. Super nervous, Dr. John. Thank goodness. I can't believe this is... Hey, do me a favor, Maggie. Can you talk directly into your phone?

Yes. It is a huge phone. Is that better? That is, do me a favor, Maggie. Can you talk directly into your phone? Yes. It is a huge phone. Is that better? That is so good. Much better, yes. Okay. I am so nervous. I'm sorry if I start shaking a little bit.

How are you guys? Dude, I promise I'm more nervous than you because I'm not great at this. So you are good. You're in good hands. And if I screw something up, which probably will, Kelly and Jenna can rescue the day. So it's all good. You're in good hands. And if I screw something up, which probably will, Kelly and Jenna can rescue the day. So it's all good. So I talked to you, Ms. Jenna, and she told me just to lead with the original question and then kind of go into background. So my original question, I guess the core question is, am I doing the right thing by moving out of my home while my husband is in rehab and detox for the second time? And then kind of a follow-leaning on question to that is, how do I

rectify that? Yes, I'm terrified and that's understandable, but it just doesn't feel right, and I can't rectify that, yes, it's the logical thing to do and likely the safe thing to do, but it feels like I'm completely abandoning my husband were both active duty in the military. I'm not going to go into the specific branch and what we do, but they're both pretty demanding jobs, Dr. John. And so this has been going on for a couple of years, and this is his second time in rehab, which is why I do want to protect him and his career and his identity, because he has done a lot for this country. But the first time he went, it wasn't completely voluntary, but he did, it was a mental savior kind of thing. He was in a really bad place, and unfortunately he started talking about ending his life. And we got him there, and we got him help, and he's safe now. But he has been struggling with drinking for a long time and um

his and it escalated to a point again to where he was mixing medication and alcohol and um there have been spurts of violence not at me directly just around me and uh the final nail in the coffin I guess was I found some very inappropriate inappropriate and unfaithful messages between him and his ex-wife. And I just feel like there's a light switch that went off. And yeah, I guess I'm just looking for if I'm doing the right thing. Am I being disloyal? Am I giving up too early? I'm just, I just feel stuck. I don't know if that makes any sense, sir. Oh, it makes all the sense in the world. You articulated that very well. Yeah. If we were in the same room together, I would stop the conversation and just ask if I

give you a hug for a second. Because I think you probably gave me the most sanitized version of that story you possibly could because you're a person of honor and integrity right uh yes sir yeah i'm gonna give you two hard hard truths okay that sometimes run a little bit counter to um some of your own training okay um okay hard truth number one you can't save him and you have to fully metabolize that reality you can call when you need to call and I'm so proud of you for calling and you can help with the intake paperwork,

and you can be a part of the treatment process. We'll talk a little bit about that in a second. But you can't save him. Yeah. And you love this guy. And this guy, you've seen sides of this guy that should be put in bronze and put out in front of buildings across this country. And you've also seen sides of this guy that are terrifying.

Fair? Yes, sir. You can't save him. The second thing is, you must stay safe. And if you are active duty and you have any sort of combat training, when it goes down,

you train for years to shut off that switch that says go run and hide and to reprogram yourself with, if I got somebody in the line, I'm going down too. And it doesn't work here. Because what happens is you both end up dead.

Metaphorically speaking. You got to stay safe. Again, I guess that's the scary part is I've never felt physically in harm's way. I'm not talking about physical safety. That's part of it. And I bet it's escalating on you. Yes. And you're smart enough to see it coming is what I'm saying.

But there's also emotional safety. There's relational safety. There's psychological safety. There's psychological safety. There is, well, do I have an STD now? There is, am I just a sucker? Is this what I'm worth kind of safety that start those old childhood conversations up? The voice that's been talking to you

since you were a little girl, that voice comes back loud and clear. You know what I mean? All that stuff, that's all wrapped up in safety. And anyone who tries to parse safety apart is usually a big six foot two, 200 pound guy. Because safety is a lot more than that. Than just that he swing at you or not.

Yes, sir. Is that fair? Yes, sir. So no, I think you're doing the right thing if your body's telling you we gotta get out of here I want you to honor the most important radar system you have overreacting

to that situation and specifically I feel like he cheated on me the messages and conversation that aside from And specifically, you know, I feel like he cheated on me. for so long. I just could not go down that hole with him as much as I wanted to. I just, I can't pull him out of that. And you're absolutely correct, but... Somebody's got to stay outside the well

and at some point pull the rope up. But if you both get on the well, you both drown. Yes. Yes, sir. And just, that is, I just feel like that's cheating as well. you both drown yes yes sir and just that is I just feel like that's cheating as well I know I keep harping on that one thing but

you don't have to apologize you don't have to confirm the story you're allowed to feel whatever it is in the world you want to feel and I think your heart knows it's probably more than just text messages you're allowed to feel whatever it is in the world you want to feel. And I think your heart knows it's probably more than just text messages. Because usually when somebody finds texts like that,

they look backwards and a whole bunch of puzzle pieces fall into line. And it's just this, oh my gosh. And you've probably heard me say this on the show. I think the most devastating thing about those kinds of messages, finding out the person you love, and let's be honest, I usually say this metaphorically, you've been to war, but you've been in the trenches with this guy through two rehab stints. You've given up career, you've given up sleep, you've given up sanity, you may have given up starting a family, you've given up a bunch of stuff for this. And so to find this is, it's, to call it maddening, is undermining it.

But I think the worst part of this, the betrayal's hardcore. The disgust and that feeling I want to throw up and I can't believe, who are you? That stuff's devastating. But I think the more devastating thing is now Maggie doesn't trust Maggie anymore. Because either Maggie knew this was kind of happening-ish maybe sort of and didn't do anything.

And Maggie's kind of a gangster in every other part of her life. Or Maggie missed it all. And Maggie's got to look in the mirror and go, if we missed this, what else have we missed? It's unmooring, right? It's like the foundation of your house just evaporates. I don't know what's, I don't even know it's real anymore. It's terrifying.

There you go. That's safety. That's safety. Okay. And you've heard me say this a million times and it applies here too too I want you to choose guilt over resentment do you have dreams of this marriage circling back up I have told him that when he gets back out I likely won't be there I do have another place

lined up but I did tell him I wasn't filing for divorce, that I'm absolutely willing to go to counseling, but I do require sobriety and, you know, just a chance for us. Hopefully, I'm not saying it's not possible, but I just don't know how to even begin to rebuild that trust. I feel like that was such a foundational thing for a marriage to work, that if he did not hold our marriage in the same level and view it as something that needs to be cherished and protected, and he stepped outside of that, no matter how he was feeling, isolated, because I truthfully felt just as isolated and alone

this whole time, but I never would have turned against him. I was doing everything I can to support him through this and in the hopes that we could find each other again and work through this. And so, no, I haven't filed for divorce or a legal separation yet. I am willing to go to counseling and work on it if he does the work as well. Okay.

I think that sounds beautiful. I always tell everybody to not make decisions in the fog like this. But I do think you're very wise. And if he was my best friend in the world, or if he was on the phone with me right now, I'd be heartbroken for him. No chance he wants to be where he is. And I would say, hey, man, she needs to move out for a while.

It's the right thing. There's got to be some some clearance here so the smoke and clear we can figure out what's up and what's down and so I would tell anybody that when it comes you if you're in love with somebody who struggles with addiction got to choose safety you gotta make sure you're okay you're safe and you're whole my friend I'm not abandoning somebody that

I've committed to I know that sounds like a doormat but no it doesn't because that's I mean that's who you are that's who you are you go into hell

to get your friends out that's who you are that's why I want you to hear me say, you can't get him out of this one. That's a suicide mission. You can't get him out. You can be sitting right there at the edge of the light with your arm extended as far as your fingers will reach

when he chooses to exit. And sometimes you may find in counseling, there's all sorts of, none of this is gonna be any sort of excuse at all, zero. But weird things happen in the hearts and minds of people who struggle with addiction. And it wouldn't surprise me if he was trying to figure out a way

to get some space between the two of you because he didn't wanna hurt you anymore. He loves you that much. And you're thinking're thinking well this was about the stupidest way you i know right so who knows what happens down the road but i think you learning to trust maggie again is really important and choose guilt you're gonna feel guilty you guilty. You're going to feel, and I don't know what kind of guy he is. He may be saying like, yeah, I know you've got it. I know, I know, I know I screwed up and, or he may just be laying it on thick. I don't know. But you're going to feel guilty. That's just who you are. You don't leave somebody and you feel like you're leaving.

I'd rather you do that and give this relationship a fighting chance than to just continue to simmer until suddenly you are a coal of ash and you resent the very name of this guy. Because I think he comes back. I think he comes back and you'll have some decisions to make. But you got to make those decisions in moments of clarity. I hate this for you, sister. I hate it.

I hate it. I hate it. I hate this for him. I want wholeness and wellness for both of you. But I'll say this, like from the bottom of my heart, I'm proud of you for looking at Maggie in the mirror and saying, Maggie, we are worth keeping safe here. And we're worth trusting our gut.

And we got to step out for a minute. Sounds wise to me. Good for you. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you.

So you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, the song's a 1996-er. It's a throwback. Many of you weren't even born yet. It's a song by Lisa Brokop. Not bro-kop, but bro-kop.

The song's called She Can't Save Him. It goes like this. She can hear his car as it pulls in the drive. She can whisper a prayer, thank God he's alive. She can meet him at the door, catch him when he falls, but she can't save him. She can make his coffee in the cold light of day. She can make his excuses, tell the boss he'll be late.

She can wave at the neighbors and kiss him goodbye, but she can't save him. Sometimes she dreams that he's caught in a stream and the water keeps pulling him down. She reaches for him as he pulls her in. She wakes up just before she drowns. Nothing can change until he saves himself. She can't save him. It's a good word. Love you guys. See you soon.