The Dr. John Delony Show - I Lost My Virginity to a Married Man

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman in love with a married man - A father whose son wants to reconnect - A woman questioning whether she should leave her husband To pre-order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I entered into an affair with a married man and it's been off and on. How do I handle the loneliness of ending it? I have moments where I'm very strong and I'm like, I can handle this. You know deep down this whole thing ends in ash. What are you doing? you know deep down this whole thing ends in ash. What are you doing? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Greatest mental health and marriage and parenting and love and figuring out what comes next. Podcast, YouTube show that's ever existed, ever in the history of time, except for the original OG Frazier Crane. That guy was onto something. But since they took Frazier Crane off the air, I'm here to fill the gaps. I just got back from Texas,

and I just needed to say this out loud. I don't know what y'all have done to that state, but it's always been hot. Now it's like visiting a convection oven that got left on like a week ago and all the internal components have just melted. If you're not in Texas, you should go outside

and just lay down in your front yard and make a snow angel and look up to the sky and just say thank you to whatever you believe in. If you are texas may the force be with you and i'm going home the last weekend of september for a football game it needs to stop it's going to be 1000 degrees i was trying to explain to somebody that wasn't from texas that in texas like in sunday school they teach you that hell is cold because when they're like it's so hot everyone's like okay

like it's not a reason it's not a reason to not do bad things. Yeah, that's Wednesday. And so all I can say is I'm happy to be back in Nashville, Tennessee. And if you want to be on this show, I don't know why. It's so hot. It's still in my bones. Golly. And I'm in the air conditioning.

If you want to be on the show, 1-844-693-3291, 1-844-693-3291, go to johndeloney.com slash ask, building a non-interest life, still on pre-sale, please go pick it up, go to johndeloney.com, it's 20 bucks, and I'll send you a bunch of other stuff to bribe you into doing it early, thank you so, so much for the thousands and thousands of people who already pre-ordered it. Man, it's just amazing. You're just, I'm just so grateful. All right, let's run out to, oh, look at that. We're going back to Texas, to my hometown in H-Town.

And let's talk to Katie. Katie, what's up? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? I'm still recovering from being in Texas this last few days. What have y'all done? I'm still wondering, not myself. Yeah, it's a steam room that you can't escape from. That's a great way to say that. And then when you get in your car and the air conditioner's on, you're just all wet. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you can walk to your mailbox and be drenched in sweat. It's ridiculous.

Jeez. Plus, who still gets mail? All right, so what's up? How can I help? That would have been way funnier if it was M-A-L-E box, by the way. That would have been hilarious. I don't even know what that means. That's a great place for, like, male dancers.

It should be called the mailbox, and it's just M-A-L-E, I think. Wouldn't that be funny, Kelly? No? I would imagine somebody's already come up with that somewhere. Or the mail room? M-A-L-E? I don't know. I think that, Kelly? No? I would imagine somebody's already come up with that somewhere. Or the mail room? In the L-E? I don't know. I think that'd be hilarious.

All right, Katie, what's up? Okay. I'm going to try my very best to make it a very poignant question. But basically, I entered into an affair with a married man a couple years ago. And it's been off and on and a lot's happened. But what I, my question is, is how do I handle the loneliness of ending it, um, that I'm going to feel and how do I go about my day-to-day with my job being around family and friends and having this heavy weight that i'm carrying and ending a relationship with someone

that i've been very deeply attached to for many many years So when you say a lot happened, thank you. Number one, thank you for your question. You asked that. Perfect. Um, when you say a lot happened, there's a lot in that sentence. What do you mean? Unpack that for me. So it started out as we were coworkers. Um, this goes back 10 years. And he was married. And I wasn't attracted to him at all. And I had never been in a relationship before. I started dating very late in life. I've always kept my guard up against guys.

And so I've always had this wall up. But he came along and slowly started kind of breaking those walls down. Um, it would start with just banter about work-related things, non-work-related things in the office. And, and we kind of became friends. And so it became an emotional affair long before it became a physical one. Um, and so about six years in, um, I could sense that he was attracted to me. Um, but he knew that I, I was, you know, very inexperienced and, you know, I had never really dated anybody, but there was always this flirtation going on. And then one day he asked me point blank if I had feelings for him because he had feelings for me. So we had a very long discussion and I said, yes, I do. But there's nothing that we can do about it because you're married.

And so a couple of months go by and I'm, it's like this big elephant in the room. Now we can't be the same around each other. And, and I start to feel this very strong desire to, to let this in because he's saying that he loves me and I had never heard that before. So it just starts to feel very good. And I decided to be with him physically. And so I lost my virginity to him. And a month later, I found out that I was pregnant. And I knew, sorry. You was pregnant. And I knew. Sorry.

You're okay. Take a breath. This is hard. This probably is not a story you just openly share all the time, right? No, it's not. No, thank you for honoring me with your trust. Take your time. Thank you. Um, anyway, I knew before I even told him that I was pregnant, I knew that he was going

to want me to have an abortion, which was difficult for me, but I started to feel very guilty. Um, for, you know, if I keep it and what that would do to him and his family. And, um, because I was very good about just kind of keeping this bubble that we were in. Um, and you know, I told him, look, I know, like, I don't expect you to ever leave her for me. I know you made a commitment. Like I'm fine with just keeping this just the way it is with us. We'll just keep it in this little box. And then when I got pregnant, you know, everything changed. And, you know, he, not in so many words, but I could tell he was very much wanting me to get an abortion. And so I decided to just gut it up and do it.

And the aftermath of that was very painful. Um, and so I can tell by, by, by just how you're talking about it, is it still painful? Yeah. Um, still a lot of guilt and shame. And so, um, I told him like, I need, I need time and I need space. And so he gave that to me. And then, you know, several months go by and I feel very lonely and very confused. And so I let him back in. And so we resumed the affair. And his wife has no idea this has been going on. I asked him one day if he thought that she knew what was going on.

And he said, yes, I think she knows that I'm having an affair, but she won't ask about it. And that took me by surprise. And I said, why? And he was like, because then we would have to deal with it. You know, just like keep that wall up kind of thing. So let me just, let me hop in here. So why now? Why end this?

Why have you reached the end here? Because you've been through a lot of what I would consider like roadblocks and you've chosen to go around them and go around them and go around them and go around them. Why now? Because I'm getting older and I see everyone around me, all my friends, you know, settling down in life, you know, getting married and having babies. And I'm, you know, letting myself be in this situation where it's a dead end. And I know it is. And I know that it needs to end permanently because I've ended it. Like I said, it's been on and off over a few years.

And I have moments where I'm very strong and I'm like, I can handle this. I can, you know, we can move on from each other and it's fine. But then I hit these very low, low moment. Surely those moments include losing that dream of being a mom, even though that wasn't a dream you thought you had. Surely those moments are, you know, deep down, this whole thing ends in ash. And you've known from day one. Yeah.

That there cannot be a happy ending here. Yeah. That there is, there, there cannot be a happy ending here. Yeah. Like, do you have any sort of remorse or guilt for the, like, imagine being on the other side of this? And if you don't, if you don't say,

I know, I'm not really. Yeah. You mean like being, being like in his wife's shoes, you mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you mean? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think about it a lot, which is why I keep justifying in my head, you know, I would never, I don't have anything against her. I don't want to ruin her life. You have. That's a foregone conclusion.

You and him together have. Well, he's had, so more context, he's had affairs before me. Whether you're one or many or one of, it doesn't matter. I mean, you can do what you can to do some mental gymnastics to distance yourself from it but her life is ruined the problem is right now it's being ruined like sands of an hourglass she's slowly suffocating in her own home um because she's married to somebody with so little integrity, it's just staggering to me. He doesn't even have integrity about his lack of integrity, right?

He doesn't even say, like, I'm leaving you because I no longer want to be with you. I want to be with somebody else. Or I no longer want to be tied down. He doesn't even have integrity about what a scumbag he is. But the only way through this is right through it. And I think what you're trying to do is trying to figure out a path out of this mess that doesn't involve pain. And that path does not exist.

And so you have to choose. I'm going to, I've, I have violated my own core sense of humanity. And I did it in the name of love. And I did it in the name of I just put my guard down. And that's not the person I want to be anymore. That's not who I am. And I know this ends awfully. And so you walk right through that. And you get a couple of of your friends and you enter into a season of grief, man, because you lose somebody that you actually do care about.

And you lose somebody who you got pregnant with and you lose somebody that you fell in love with that you know deep down is a terrible person that you could never be with. Even if he left his wife and said, I'm with you forever, you know you couldn't be with him because he'd turn around and have somebody else within the next year. And so the only way through it is to go through the grief of that. And I think your grief is going to be multi-layered. You're going to have the loneliness, but behind or underneath that loneliness of missing a guy who's probably a great lover and he's probably funny and he knows you and he has the work connection and the intimate connection all that beneath that is this like you walled yourself off from the world to avoid this exact moment i'm going to stay away from men because men are bad news and they are going to make me violate my own core values and i'm going to end up in places I don't want to be and here you are and to me that is going to be the hardest thing you have to grieve because everything you spent all of your life trying to avoid has has come to your front door and you open the door and let it

in does that make sense yeah no 100 it does so if, I'm just going to be, I would quit my job. I'd quit my job. I would get so far away because I don't want to work at a place where that guy is either. Well, we don't work together anymore. So there is even more space. But yeah, in a way it intensified the longing between us, I think.

You just got to know, Katie, it's not real. Yeah. It's not real. Your hurt is, but this affair is not real. Have you told any of your friends? I opened up to, um, one of my best friends right after I found out I was pregnant. That's when I told her everything. Um, and, but she doesn't know that I went back to him. And that's another thing is I've been utterly terrified of telling her that it's been years of keeping it from her.

Because she was really there for me when I had the abortion and gave me a lot of support. But I've been afraid to let her down. You have. She just doesn't know it yet. And so the only way back through that is to sit down with your friend that you love and trust and say, I'm going to break your heart because I've broken my own and I need some help. The definition of addiction is a compulsive behavior that you

continue to do even after your body has identified it's bad for you. So this isn't technically an addiction, if you will, like in the classic chemically sense substance abuse kind of way. But Pia Melody, one of the the great authors talks about something called love addiction this idea that I cannot I can't walk away from something that I know is going to kill me. It's it's it's actively killing me the secrets the Disgust I feel when I look in the mirror the disgust when i'm driving home and he's going home to his wife and his kids This other imaginary life he has and i'm going home alone And then you keep going back even even though you know, and you know, and you know, so I imaginary life he has. And I'm going home alone. And then you keep going back,

even though you know, and you know, and you know. And so I tell you that to tell you, you can't do this by yourself. You can't do this by yourself. You're going to have to reach out to a friend that you care and risk that friend saying, I don't want to be friends with somebody who would do that. Or maybe she opens her arms up really big and says,

this ends today, but I'll walk with you. And my guess is untangling all these emotions and all these years and all of the secrecy and all the times you've had to not be honest with your other coworkers and your friends and your family, going through an abortion alone, all of it, that panic when those times over the last few years when you think his wife is calling you or emailing you or figured something,

all of that, you're going to have to get somebody to untangle that with you. And then ultimately you're going to have to get to a place where you forgive Katie and then you make a covenant with yourself that that never happens again, that you honor Katie enough

to never get involved this way systematically again. And I hope you hear my voice. I'm with you. I'm sad for you. I am, but I'm with you and I'm not going to sit here and beat you up. And everybody listening from your little keyboards, throwing grenades on this situation is not going to help. It is what it is. It's already already burned to the ground there's just a couple of survivors staggering around i think this ends today i think you commit to yourself and to him and to everybody around you it's the last time we speak this last time the last time I talk to you. I block you on everything. I drop everything. You are out of my life. And for good, you might have to move apartments. You might have to quit your job. I don't care what you have to do. You are going to drown in this. This is the moment when the alcoholic takes all the bottles and pours them down the sink. You got

to walk away. And then you got to look around at the burned down landscape of your life and say, I need some people to help me rebuild this thing. Can it be rebuilt? A hundred percent. But the lying and the deception and the secrets and the just utter violation over years of your own integrity, of this person's poor wife and kids, all of it stops today. And I'll be with you every step of the way, Katie. Call anytime. I'm not going to hate on you. Your life's hard, hard enough already. I'll sit with you as you figure out what to do next. Please call your friend today. We'll be right back. All right, let's roll up to Oklahoma in Tulsa and

talk to good man Kyle. What's up, Kyle? Oh my gosh, I am on the phone with Dr. John Deloney. Actually, I'm just AI. I'm just a computer version of myself. What's up, man? Well, I hope you can be just as helpful. Yeah. Dude, way more helpful with a computer. What's up? My gosh. So I have a question, but I do have a quick funny note about your show and how it's affected my wife and I real quick, if you don't mind. Go for it, man. So I've been drinking an ocean of Deloney Kool-Aid over the last month, like 60 episodes, something like that. And yesterday I told my wife, I took out the bananas from the freezer, cut off the tips because that's what she asked me to do. And I didn't do it because I thought she was being silly. And I told her that it was wrong of me to do that and invalidate her feelings just because,

and exercise my control over it and say, Nope, I'm not cutting off the tips. And she goes, you've been listening to your podcast again, haven't you? See for all the fruit lovers out there. I got your back guys.

I got your back. Well done, Kyle. I'm glad to see you making those big changes. I'm still cheating on her, and I still drink too much, but I'm cutting the tips off the bananas. We're starting baby

steps, Kyle. Way to go. Way to go. My question, my oldest son is 20 years old. He's been estranged. We've been estranged for quite some time. And he recently, in the last couple weeks, started calling and wants to start to rebuild the relationship.

Why are you estranged? I gave him a really rough childhood. Um, and then when he was about 12, his mom and I got divorced and I moved away. When you say you gave him a rough childhood, what does that mean? Oh, shoot. Um, for a long time, I refused to admit, um, that I was being abusive. Um, never left like bruises or anything like that, but just constant yelling, screaming. Couldn't, he couldn't do anything right. Um, escalating consequences. Um, it was just, I can't imagine how miserable he was growing up. What flipped the switch for you, man?

Hold on, let me just say this. I've got a little boy myself. And so I'm going to be super candid with you. Is that cool? Yep. I got a little boy myself. And so part of me has an Insta, I can't describe it other than it's like a thermometer, like an Insta rage inside of me when I hear this. And I also have like an instant sense of compassion because what you just said out loud is really hard to do.

There's not a lot of Oklahoma dads who are willing to look back and go, what have I done? Right? And so I'm proud of you. What flipped that switch for you, man? Um, listening to you really, um, I always felt it and knew that I was bad. Um, but starting to listen to your show and how you talk about trauma and how it affects little kids and how they hold onto that forever. And. Well, then hold on to it. It just becomes their nervous system.

It just becomes wired into their bodies, right? It's not like they're like, just let it go. No, that's just how their bodies have chosen to just keep them safe. So he moved away with your ex-wife, and then did you get remarried, have a new family? I did. Okay, how's that going? It's going awesome.

Have you learned from your past mistakes? Oh, immensely. Okay. Awesome. Immensely. Good for you, man. Good for you. So he's almost a grown man now, and he reaches out. Why did he reach out?

So he did come down here, and he moved in with me when he was 17 with the agreement to finish his final year of school. Um, and then COVID hit and he lost all of his new friends that he had made, um, down here. And so he moved back to Wisconsin with his mom. Um, and things just got worse and worse. Um, there's a long, long history of lying and manipulation and just not taking responsibility for anything. You know how that develops, right? Just for people listening, if you are a young kid and you can't do anything right. And everything is met with screaming and spanking times too hard.

And you know the difference. And a moving target on how do I keep dad from getting so mad? A kid peels off and learns how to be very deceptive and never tell the truth because he doesn't. You know what I'm saying? It's a very adaptive strategy. Yeah, that that makes perfect sense it keeps the young kid alive and also destroys his adulthood because then he gets fired from jobs as he should and he gets his his romantic partners leave him as they should because he can't tell the truth he's just become deceptive so and also this often comes with substance abuse issues. Is he struggling with that too? Um, no. Okay. Good for him. Nope.

So, um, what's your, what's your hesitancy? There's just, there's been so many bridges burned and the original divorce was just so extremely toxic. The marriage was extremely toxic. And I took out a lot of my frustrations with my marriage on him because nothing was changing in the marriage. So hold on. It sounds like you burned the bridges. And anytime somebody has a relationship dysfunction with a child, I'm always going to look at the adult in the room and say, you got to go first. So if there's ever going to be a bridge, I'm always going to look at the adult in the room and say, you got to go first. So if there's ever going to be a bridge built,

you've got to build it. You can't expect a kid to build that bridge back. It's not their job. Yep. Um, and we tried, um, and when, when he came down here,

when he was 17 to live with us, um, we tried. Yeah. But I mean, you, you went from one teeter-totter to the other like that like that's that's a lot because even if he wants to if he moves back in with you as a 20 year old as a 17 year old he may want to with all of his heart to re-find his dad and who am i and i've i've grown up and all those things dad used to get so mad at me about, it's different now

but that 17 year old's body is, every time you walk in the room is like, run! Every time you give him something, like a chore or say, hey I told you to pick up that whatever, and you were right to tell him his body goes to DEFCON

1, and so i i think you over hit it right you you over correct it from abusive to completely out of my life to move back in that's a lot versus let's be i mean you can't just drop a newly fully formed bridge across a a big river, right? You got to build it slat by slat. And I think that's what y'all have to do here. Yep. There is a lot of history

and stuff that he doesn't know. About what? Because the divorce and the marriage. Who cares? You were a grown-ass man, and you took it out on a kid. I don't care what was happening in your marriage. I know that sounds callous, but he doesn't need to know what happened in your marriage and how awful his mom was. He doesn't need to know any of that.

He needs his dad to sit down at a restaurant somewhere between here and Wisconsin and say, I wrote a letter that I'm going to read to you. And it starts with, dear son, I'm so sorry I let you down. I didn't know what I was doing. I was over my head. My marriage was a wreck. I had no tools in my toolkit and I loved you. And I showed you in the worst possible way. And I've sent you on a path to learning to be dishonest, to get what you need need because I couldn't give it to you and I didn't give it to you and fill in the blank the only way this works Kyle is you

take a knee in front of that 21 year old and say I've failed you and that ends today and that's it okay how'd that go I'm proud of you for doing that by the way that takes a lot of courage I make it sound all easy on the radio That's hard to do

It was probably the hardest thing I've ever said to anybody in my life Did you feel 50 pounds lighter After you were saying that stuff Oh yeah I bet so So tell me how'd it go Went good He thanked me for being honest about it because it's what he had accused me of

for years and i denied it yeah um and i think because when he first called me i was like man i don't know if i can do this with him right now um it doesn't count over the phone by the way yeah over the phone is step one it has to happen in person so if y'all talked on the phone, by the way. Yeah. Over the phone is step one. It has to happen in person. So if y'all talked on the phone and you said a bunch of stuff, that's cool. That's a cool, like, partial first step, but that's not it. Yep. So, yeah, we're trying to set up a time to meet. He lives in Iowa now. So we're trying to set up a time that we can meet and get together.

Kyle, don't set up a time. Get in your car and go see your son. This isn't something you arrange. This isn't something that you walk out of your job and say, I'll be back. I'm going to get my son. Like the, even if you drive all the way from Tulsa to Iowa for a two and a half or three hour meal together and you

drive home but he has to know dad's coming to get me there's no more tiptoeing and this like what happened has happened the only thing you can change what happens next fair absolutely fair and here's how I think you start building those slats back. I think you make a commitment to yourself and to him. I'm going to write him a letter every week and mail it to him. Just thinking about you. I'm so proud of you. I love you.

One time, you're not probably going to remember this, but one time when you were a little kid, fill in the blank. That's it. And what's going to remember this, but one time when you were a little kid, fill in the blank. That's it. And what's going to happen in real short order, by the end of this time next year, he's going to have 52 letters from his old man. He's even going to get annoyed that you keep sending them. And after letter 36, he's going, Dad, we're good.

You don't have to keep sending these. You're like, I know. But you will never go another week of your life. Not knowing that your dad loves you and is committed all in on you. Now that does not mean he gets access to your checking account. That doesn't mean that you become an ATM for him or whatever, but that means I'm gonna love you. So why did he reach out? No, I'm going to.

No, no, no. Why did he reach out? Oh, why did he reach out? Oh, why did he reach out? So a lot of the patterns that I put on him when he was a kid, he's exhibiting now as a young adult. Yeah. And he got, as far as I know, got kicked out of his mom's house. Okay. For not being kind to his younger sister okay

there is a moment when you confront your son on that and you say I let you down you cannot let this cycle continue it has to stop with you it has to stop with me it has to stop with you yep that's kind of where I'm struggling

because I know all these things about that he's kept secret from me as far as his home life and fighting with his sister and his mom and i i feel responsible for that and at the same time i also feel like he needs to be held accountable for that because some of it's his own decisions. He's a 20-year-old man. He's a 20-year-old man. That's exactly right.

And I don't know how to. But sometimes accountability looks like, hey, I can't get you out of jail. I'll hold your hand. I'll sit with you. You're not going to do this alone. His experiences now are a context, not an excuse. He does not have free reign because you didn't show up for him as a kid. He does not have free reign to burn other people to the ground.

He's got to be held accountable. Good for his mom for kicking him out of his house if he's making it unsafe for his little sister. Good for her for holding boundaries. Yeah, I honestly didn't see that coming. Well, if he's reaching out to you just because he's looking for a crash pad, you'll need to have that conversation because he has no interest in rebooting your relationship. He has every interest in just getting free rent, and that's two different things. That's kind of what I'm worried about is that the reach out was for ulterior motives.

Probably, probably, but tell him, I love you too much. We are combustible. We're going to have to build this thing back slowly. And I will contribute a couple hundred bucks a month to an apartment out here if you want to move out here. But you're going to have to work too. Oh my gosh, after all this, you're just going to... No, no, no.

I love you so much. You got to learn some lessons that I should have taught you when you were little. And I can't sleep at night if I let this thing continue Yeah, so I think I think the re-entry here has to be you and your new wife setting the boundaries right like Son I don't engage with folks that lie. That's a that's a choice as a grown man that I've made I Also don't walk away from people that I love. So I'm asking you don't choose to walk away from me by being dishonest.

Number two, when you move back in here, we have to learn, we have to teach our bodies that each other is safe. It's not going to work for you just to move back in here. Apartments in this area are this much. I'll contribute this much. I'll call my buddy at the shop to help you get a job or whatever he's doing help him get to college or whatever but and there's going to be some starts and stops ups and downs he's going to get mad you can invite him to counseling with you if you'd like to but ultimately you can't be responsible for his healing as much as you want to try to get a redo on that. What's happened's happened. What you can do is love him right now, but he's a grown man now.

He's got to make his own choices, which is hard. Yep. I'm trying to support him anyway, but financially I did send him your show. He started listening. He went all the way back to the first episode and he's listening from the back and forward. I think you let him know, hey, I'm coming on Saturday or I'm coming next Friday.

I'm taking you to dinner. And I think you and your wife figure out how to make that happen financially and time-wise. And y'all talked in person, but you got to look him in the eye. And I'd write it down, man, because it can get real heavy and it can get real blubbery and be very hard.

I would look him in the eye and read that letter to him. And then from there say, what do you need? How can I love you right now? And then align what he's asked for with those new boundaries. But yeah, you may have taught him some things as a young kid that doesn't give him license to run over his little sister or his mom or anybody like that. And here's the thing.

Did you play that right when he was young? No, you didn't. You let him down. And have you made it a mission in your life to not only create new paths for your family that you have now, your new family, but also provide opportunities for him to be the dad that he didn't have growing up? Absolutely. And I commend you for that. It's hard.

It's day by day. There's a lot of guilt. And there's going to be moments that come up things probably you forgot that he remembers you're gonna feel guilty about the challenge for you is gonna be to not go to shame you did some stupid stuff when you were young in a toxic marriage but you're not stupid stuff that's the difference between guilt and shame something you did versus something you are because now you're not that guy anymore you're the dad that's going to run out after his prodigal son and say please come home i'm sorry

please come home and by the way you can't stay in the house you can stand apart down the street and you got to get a job you got to go to college and i'll meet with you once a week that's what you want to do. We're going to build a relationship back brick by brick by brick. We're not just going to hand them the keys to a new car. We're not going to hand them the keys to a new highway. Together, you're all going to rebuild this brick. For all the parents listening, that rebuilding relationship with your kids starts with you. Starts with you. What if my kid's the one? It starts with you. You're the mom. You're the dad. Make the call. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important

to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about though is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past,

it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Halo. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations.

You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour, and you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it,

and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself and sometimes you do this with a group and Halo helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet earth, Halo, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show, get three free months when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing.

Three free months of the app when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and talk to the great and powerful Renee. What's up, Renee? Hi, how are you? Partying.

How are you? I'm great. That's so good. What's up I'm currently in a relationship and we have a daughter and there are some things that are said in front of her that I'm not like a fan of during like

arguments so I'm not sure if it's like better for her for us to be together or not I don't even know what's being said, but I want to challenge the whole premise. Okay. Okay. She cannot be the reason you leave your husband or don't leave your husband. She can't carry that kind of weight. Right. You have to choose. Am I with a man who is abusive and childish? And let's take her out of the equation, almost 0% chance that he's

perfect in every other way. And your relationship is humming along except for he says appropriate things in front of your daughter. Fair? Right. So back out and like, be honest. Are you out of this relationship? Are you done? Uh, sometimes I feel that way. Tell me about that. Um, it seems like things will go really well for a while and we communicate really well. And then like all of a sudden, like something happens and it's, um, like a big argument that kind of lasts for days. And at that point I'm kind of like, it's hard for me to like trust again that that's not going to continue to happen. Of course, because it keeps continuing, right?

Yeah. It keeps happening. Who is the adult, who has the adult body but acts like a child and keeps an argument going on for days? Because that's a power move. That's not a let's solve this problem or you really hurt my feelings. That's a power move. That's a way to run a household by keeping a fight going on and on and on.

Is that you that does that or is that him? I feel like it's him. Would he tell me on the phone that it's you? Yes. So what is it that he's doing? There's a lot of like kind of insults and really like harsh like words that are kind of coming to me and at that point i kind of like everything is all kind of let's just get right

to the the reality like he's kind of as mean and kind of as the greatest ever what does he say um he'll say that i'm stupid and that there's other there's other like curse words that are being used and things in reference to me so as an adult I choose to not be in a conversation or relationship with people that angrily swear at me on a regular basis right I choose that why do you think so little of yourself that you haven't made that choice? Um, cause that's a child. Like that's a, that's a very childish thing to do. Yeah.

To swear and curse at your wife when you're mad. That's just, that's what's what kids do, man. Yeah. Do you do it back? No, I usually like i kind of shut down and i'll try to walk away from the

situation if that's happening because i mean i don't really want to deal with that and i don't feel like that's gonna produce a positive conversation good for you and then when you re-establish control in your relationship by walking away and choosing dignity over just getting berated. He chooses to sulk and just carry it on for days and weeks on end. Yeah, he does not like the walking away. Have you ever told him with a smile on your face? If you would stop swearing at me and cussing at me and telling me that was stupid I wouldn't walk away

actually you know what that gives him I want to flip that around I said that wrong I think the best way to say it is no I'm always I always have autonomy

and so I choose to not be around people who swear and curse at me so if you swear and curse at me and throw a temper tantrum like a child you are choosing for me to go away. And I get the message loud and clear.

Yeah. And I, I mean, this past week I kind of, cause we had like a big fight last week like that. And I kind of set that boundary where I was like, if that's happening, like I'm not going to be a part of it. It's not like acceptable. I can't really continue in a relationship where that's happening, like I'm not going to be a part of it. It's not like acceptable. I can't really continue in a relationship where that's going to happen. All right. So you practice, to use your words, you kind of put down a boundary. Then what happened? Did he say, oh no, no, no, no, no. I didn't want that. Or he'd say, yeah, that's right. Like why are you calling? Do you think this thing's over? Yeah. It's hard for me to like kind of let them go so i feel like i hold on to some like anger and hurt from those types of situations you should hold on to anger and hurt it's ugly it's

hard a guy stood before you and god and your friends and said i'm all in on you and i will i will commit to service to you for the rest of our marriage and you said the same to him you don't follow that up with you stupid fill in the blank. Yeah. Even when you're mad, even when you're just incredibly angry, you don't talk like that. Right. To me, like I know if I'm kind of getting to a point where I'm angry and I can kind of pause on that and like come back to it later. And he tends to be very like explosive.

Yeah. Are you safe otherwise? Does he punch the wall or throw things at you no do you push him so far and poke and prod and prod and poke and do things you know you're going to set him off i don't think so what would he say? He says that sometimes that I panic or get emotional too easily. That's so stupid. He doesn't get to say that. That's dumb. That's gaslighting 101. You scream and yell and call somebody stupid you stupid blankety blank blank blank blanker and then you start crying and it's like oh my gosh you're so emotional

it's so stupid that's yeah that's what happens it's kind of like we'll just stop crying just talk normal it's hard to do that after everything that was just said. Yeah. I can't be the person that says, you're good, you're free to go. And your daughter can't be either. Right. And I know that leaving somebody with a young child creates a cascade of challenging situations. Yeah.

But that little girl, as you probably rightfully know, is getting a ringside seat. She is downloading into her nervous system, this is what love and marriage looks like, and this is how a woman is to be treated by a man. Right. And that's like the part that makes me feel like guilty. The part that should make you feel guilty is the part that loves and cares for renee deserves more because there's a little girl inside of you going is this what we're worth so like all that like kumbaya stuff here's the deal if i'm you i would let my husband

know not in kind of terms i I've made an appointment next whatever for us to go see a marriage counselor or one of those two day, we're gonna figure out at the end of this two day retreat, Terry Real does these across the countries, many, many therapists in many countries, I mean, in many cities do this. We're coming in for 48 hours

or for a Friday night and all day Saturday. And we all agree at the end of that Saturday, whether we're staying together or not. We're calling it. Do we have what it takes, or do we have the investment to work on this thing? And if we do, here's the behaviors that are going to change immediately, and here's what we're going to work for together, or I'm not into that. I don't want to work on that. And then,. We make an agreement at five o'clock on Saturday or noon on Sunday. We shake hands and then we go to mediation. We call it. There's a lot of therapists that do that kind of program.

I think you, that's where y'all are at. I'd agree. So I'd make the call and remember this behavior is a language. If he doesn't show up, he has told you everything you need to know. Yeah. If he says, I'm not going to some stupid marriage counselor to listen,

I don't hear none of that. You're not going nowhere. Quit whining. He told you everything you need to know. He's not invested in the future of this relationship. He is leaving by absence. Yeah. Is that fair?

Yes. Guy just threw a lot at you what are you feeling um it makes me nervous to like kind of bring the idea up but i like the idea let me say this the idea is out i promise he's not sitting with his buddies right now being like, man, my wife is the best. My marriage is amazing. He knows it's falling apart too. Or it's gone. And sometimes it just takes somebody to say, I'm willing

to rebuild if you are. And that doesn't mean great. There's still a lot of construction that has to be done. And a lot of remodeling and a lot of construction that has to be done, and a lot of remodeling, and a lot of excavation has to be done, but if you both say you're in, you're in. It just takes somebody to say it out loud.

If he came back, if y'all went to a counseling session, he said, oh my gosh, I'm sorry. I've done this all sideways. I'm willing to do it to be different. Would that give you peace? Would you be like, awesome like awesome i'm in or are you done with him has he said things he says he said things that you can't come back from i'm not judging either way i just want to know like i i think i could be totally in but it's i feel like it's still going to take me some time to kind of trust that that's not going to just be the same thing. That's fair.

Very good. Very cool. And if he wants to call in, have him call in. I'd love to hear his side of this story. Or if y'all want to call in together, I'd love to hear that side too. But yeah, you've heard me say this a million times, and I'll probably say it a million more before the show's over. This is a moment where you've got to turn the lights on, turn the music off, and say, okay, this is, you've heard me say this a million times and I'll probably say it a million more before the show's over. This is a moment where you got to turn the lights on, turn the music off and say,

okay, this is the state of our marriage. You talk to me this way and I will not have that anymore. You think I'm the most annoying, this and that and this and that from these behaviors. We got to solve this thing. You don't like being the dad of a young daughter. I don't like being in a house where people are screaming and we're teaching our daughters what love looks like. All those things have to be said. And you also have to recognize

us too, we don't have the tools in our toolkits to solve this moving forward because we would have done that by now. We got to go sit with a professional. I've made an appointment. If you're in, it's on Friday. Will you join me? I hope you will. And that's how this goes, man. And he can say, no, I'm out. And you probably need to see that counselor anyway, because there's going to be somebody that walks alongside you through whatever comes next. But all said and done, you're not crazy for not wanting to be around somebody that swears and curses at you and calls you stupid.

And he's probably not crazy for getting frustrated at whatever. Question is, not can we go back to the way things were, the way things were over. Are we both in to building something completely new? My hope is you'll choose yes. But if it's too far gone, it's too far gone. Be honest, be bold, be a person of integrity as you make your next steps. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book,

Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we're wrapping up today's show, I have a follow-up email to read to you. Check this out. Previous call was on June 29th, 2021, which seems like a thousand years ago. It's from Susie in Lubbock, Texas. Susie writes, I was just listening to the show and felt compelled to reach out to you. It was two years ago that I emailed Dr. John for advice on my son getting divorced, his family, his wife's family spurted on and what my part in that situation should be. His advice really helped me, but not

immediately. Susie, she writes, LOL, LOL, lots of love or laugh out loud. Um I didn't want to do what he said I should I wanted to jump in and fix everything and I wanted him to tell me How to fix it, but that's not at all what he told me He basically told me I needed to be the best and most loving person I could be encourage my son to do the same and let go of trying to control the outcome I mean what not an easy thing for me to do. I might be a control freak, but I really tried to apply his advice as best I could. And as time went on, it got easier. Now, two years later, my son is in a better place mentally than he was then for sure. He's thriving and he's such a good dad. I'm super proud. They are co-parenting my precious three-year-old grandson well. I continue

to listen to the show because it helps me in so many ways. And also I say lots of prayers for you, the callers. I guess I just really wanted to say thank you for all y'all do. It matters. Thank you for your hearts to love on others. Susie, transitioning from being a control freak to someone who loves and can sit lovingly in that awful discomfort is really hard, real hard.

And I'm super proud of you. It's incredible work. Good for you. Good for you. And let's be honest. This didn't have the happy ending you were hoping for. Her parents didn't back out and the marriage was saved and everybody lived happily ever after.

But it sounds like they're being adults and they have built something else that might be arguably not as good, but they're co-parenting well. And I happen to believe that part of what's making that go well is your son knows I'm anchored into my mom who loves me and will be there. Even when she disagrees with me, she still loves me. Good for you, Susie. Good for you. And thank you for continuing to listen to the show. If anybody is listening and has follow-ups or where are they now, please send them in. JohnDeloney.com slash ask.

And for everybody else, stay in school, be nice to each other, be kind, don't do drugs, all the after school special stuff. Call Zach Morris on your big phone. And the great Kelly Kapowski. Kapowski, what was her name? Kapowski. Kapowski. Kapowski.

Kapowski. Kelly Kapowski. Get it right. I love you guys. Bye.