The Dr. John Delony Show - I Married a 49y/o Virgin, Is My Husband an Alcoholic?, & Gaslighting

Episode Date: February 5, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU! Show Notes for this Episode I think my husband is an alcoholic. He doesn’t see an issue. Teaching Segment: Gaslighting My new wife was a virgin when we married at 49. It’s become such a part of her identity that she can’t let it go and we haven't had sex after 3 weeks of marriage. Lyrics of the Day: "I Was Wrong" - Social Distortion tag: addiction, marriage, substance abuse, sexuality/intimacy These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Hey, what's up? On today's show, I talk about how I learned the hard way that social media is nuts. I also talk to an awesome young married mom of two who's worried about her husband becoming an alcoholic. And I talk to this really wonderful 52-year-old man who just got remarried to a 49-year-old virgin. And he wants to know how he can help move the relationship forward. This is an awesome one. Stay tuned. Hey, what's up? What's up, good folks? This is Deloney. Welcome to the Dr. John Deloney Show, A show for you, by you, about you. Where I talk to folks from all over the country.

People actually calling from all over the world about the challenges they're facing, the relationship issues, what's going on in their hearts, in their minds, in their neighborhood, in their country. And how we can all walk together and figure out how to get our life back, right? So if you're new to this show, man, we are so glad you're here. We talk about everything, mental health issues, relational IQ issues, family, parenting, addiction, all of it. Nothing is off limits in this show. And normally in this part of the show is when I will talk about something, and I'm being silly, by the way, something that is annoying or that makes me laugh or that makes my coworkers laugh,

and they just walk through the hall and be like, hey, you need to put this on your show. And sometimes, actually most of the time, it's poking fun at myself. I happen to think that three-wheeled motorcycles are pretty rad. And then I thought that'd be funny to talk about. I happen to think all sorts of things are cool, or I happen to be a guy that shows up at a four-way stop, and I just sit there and wave because I think I'm being polite, and I'm actually ruining the other person's. So all these things that I think are annoying are usually things that I do, and occasionally it's not. But instead of doing that today, we got to talk about family business, all right?

So I posted on this internet saying, by the way, just as a reminder, when I took this job a year ago, I didn't have social media because I think it's insane. I like interacting with humans, and I like calling people on the telephone and saying, hey, how are you doing? But as part of this gig, I jumped in the lake. It's not a lake. It's a raging river. And so a couple of things.

I don't watch the news as a matter of course. I just don't. It's a way I keep myself well and whole. I have friends who work in government. I've got friends who are high-ranking folks in the military, and my wife watches the news. And so if things are going on that I need to know, then they let me know. Or I'll reach out and say, hey, is this something we need to be concerned about? And they'll say, yeah, this is a pretty big deal. I should probably put gas in the car. It's all coming down, man.

But they probably don't ever, ever say that. And sometimes, like when there's a weather event or there's a major political thing going on, then I'll turn the news on and try to catch up on what's going on. But to tell you the kind of person I am, how my house works is when we watch the election results come in, I had a screen up with MSNBC and a screen with Fox News. And I sat with my 10-year-old and we watched the election results come in and we discussed how each group was talking about which side and which one felt like this sounded accurate and this one wasn't. And I actually walked away impressed with everybody. Like, wow, man, I was expecting there to be this. And I didn't hear a lot of that.

But that's the kind of house we have. So if we're going to turn it on, we turn it all on, right? So fast forward to inauguration day. I'm walking through the office I'm busy that day we started early early filming recording all kind of stuff and I walk through the office and there's a giant flat screen in my boss's office and it's got the inauguration I was like that's today that's today and I stuck my head in and I realized I missed it it It was over. And it was over. And Karl Rove's face was on.

It was all happening on Fox News Channel. Karl Rove's face was on there. And I thought, oh, I wonder what he's going to say. And he said something to the tune. And we talked about this in a previous podcast. He said something along the lines of, that was a good speech. Joe gave a good speech. So I went back and checked out the speech, and it was a good speech. Joe gave a good speech. So I went back and checked out the speech, and it was a good speech.

And I walked out, and I pumped my fist, actually, right? I pumped my fist and said, man, maybe people are going to just clear the smoke out of here, and we all have to just put everything down and figure this stuff out. And again, I'm an optimist. I think we're going to work together. That's the only way forward, right? And so not thinking about any sort of thing I wouldn't know about, I posted the following on the internets that day because I walked away with my fist pumping. Like, man, we're going to figure this out. And I wrote, and I quote, I'm reading from my internet phone.

Today we're about unity. Saying I'm sorry. Saying I don't understand. Can you tell me more? Saying I'm all in for the good of all. And then here's what I went on to write. No more yelling. Let's solve the messes together.

I don't care what side you're on, what conspiracy theories you're obsessed with, what some internet sites you follow. Today is a beautiful day for democracy, for all of us. Now for the hard work of unity, repair, apology, science, faith, hospitality, understanding, and curiosity becomes very, very real. We got hard work to do. Don't seek to judge, seek to be curious. Don't seek to fight, seek to understand. Don't seek to judge. Seek to be curious. Don't seek to fight. Seek to understand. Don't swing first. Listen first.

And buy somebody gas or a meal or pay their light bill today. Do something for someone else and let's start unity off on the right foot. We need each other. That's what I wrote. You would have thought that I typed into the internet machine, let's start murdering children. Effective immediately. Kill them all.

Let's do it. Or that I said something along the lines of, I don't even know. I can't tell you the vitriol that came back on this little device. I would talk to the liberals, John. For the last four years, they've leveled heavy and vitriolic accusations for simply supporting a political candidate and a two-party system. What else did they write?

This is so great, man. Let's see here. Oh, you opened a can of worms, man. I know where you're coming from. I feel the wounds run too deep and this administration will only further divide um i was reading this thinking yes yes and then i read a beautiful day for democracy well no well no not if you're on the other side and believe voter fraud occurred i'm sure that's your reference to conspiracy theory so in essence you're calling

for unity at the expense of someone else's beliefs. What? What are you talking about? This is super great. I'm going to choose to believe this is John saying choose unity and not just parroting Biden. So here's what I didn't know. I didn't know that unity and kindness were now have been co-opted by a political party. I didn't know that. Oh, this is one of my favorites.

I personally think this post was over the line for an upcoming national radio personality. I agree with your message, but not the manner of enactment by the Democrats. That's why many Republicans... What are you talking about? So, I've told this before. I intentionally don't tell people who I vote for. I intentionally don't care. I have had people in my home who would make Bernie Sanders go, whoa, that's too far.

And I've had people in my home sleeping beds in my house that Trump would go, all right, guys, that's probably too far. We should probably reel that back in. Everyone is welcome at my house. And this isn't a political exercise for me. It's not a theoretical. You are welcome at my home. You are welcome in one of my bedrooms. You can sit at my table and I'm going to feed you

and we're going to talk because I love you. And then we're going to go from there. And so I need everybody. I don't care what political side you're on. Somebody was like, that guy sounds like a woke liberal Christian. What is that? Someone is like, that guy sounds like he is a fading, like a fading, what do you call it? Conservative.

That guy's really a hardcore. You're all wrong. You're all wrong. You're all wrong. I would make everybody uncomfortable at any table I sat at and everybody at that table would be welcome at my house. Unless you're going to be ugly to my kids, unless you're going to be ugly and disrespectful to my wife, you're welcome in my house. And here's why. When you get angry, and we've talked about this before, but this is a chemical thing. When you get angry, when you get scared, literally the part of your brain, the amygdala that is designed to fire off your fight or flight, unhooks your frontal lobe. It unhooks your ability to critically think.

It unhooks your ability to say, huh, tell me more about that. Here's why. 10,000 years ago, when you're sitting at a cave and you're sleeping and you open your eyes and there's a giant bear at the front of that cave. There's a tiger next to the bear and next to the tiger is four lions. They're all carnivorous buddies. We just don't know that yet. But there's a couple of lions, a tiger, and a bear. Your brain doesn't want you to go, huh, I wonder if those guys are all nice. Maybe we could hug. Let's pet. Let's pet. Come on, everybody. It just wants you to run, run. So it takes off the part of your brain that is trying to piece together new information, to build consensus, to think through things. It just says run. And our news stations, internet blogs that just get paid on

clicks, people, they don't want you to sit down and think through it. They don't want you to read something and go, that sounds bananas. I'm going to call somebody. They just want you to freak out. They want to sound the alarms inside your body. They want you to continue clicking and clicking and clicking, and they will rabbit hole you down conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory. And good folks, I love conspiracy theories. My dad was a homicide detective growing up. I love them. And I don't believe most of them. Occasionally they're true because they happen. But most of the time, they don't. They're not real.

Was this a contentious last year? God almighty, dude. There are still cities with smoke rising from what happened. Was what happened at the Capitol a few weeks ago now? Maybe a month ago now by the time you hear this. Is that scary? Yeah, man. Are people's hearts racing?

Yes. And that is all the more reason why you have to know how your brain works. That if you are filled with rage, if you are filled with anger, if you can't help but comment on some knuckleheaded podcaster's Instagram page. Man, I'm just, I'm imploring you.

Whatever injustice you think was done, whatever, some guy told me that Biden's on China's payroll and there's, whatever you happen to think. I'm just, I'm asking you, take a breath, slow down. And this doesn't just apply to politics. This applies to your home. If you think your 11-year-old kid is doing something just to make you rage, take a breath. Just take a breath because he's probably not. If you think your wife did this thing just to make, she might have, but probably not. Probably not.

And if you approach every situation with this internal fireball, nothing gets solved, everything burns to the ground. And so if you think the last four years were ugly and hate-filled and rage-filled, they were. If you think people were ugly and rage-filled and hateful, they were. If you got your feelings hurt deeply, you're one of all of us. If you are terrified about the future of the country, you're all of us. If you are worried what the Democrats are going to do with some things, you're all of us. If you're worried what the Republicans are going to do, you're all of us.

But what I'm telling you is being full of rage won't solve that problem. Inviting people to your house, especially people who don't look like you, believe like you, who have different everything from you, invite those people over. And offer them pizza. Unless they're gluten intolerant, for God's sake, get them something.

I don't care what you get them. Get some good, good, good wine. And then say, hey, let's just hang out. And you're going to learn a lot. And you're going to live longer because your heart rate is going to slow down. Your brain is going to slow down. And then you're going to start being able to see, okay, this one, this is a real threat. This one I'm really worried about. We need to call our congressman, my local church, my community group. We need to really dig in on this.

These, not real, not real. So that's my rant. That's not even a rant, dude. That's just my plea. That's just my plea. And here's the thing. If you are somebody who just in your soul, man, you're armored up, you are ready for it. This may not be the podcast for you, dude. Because what I'm trying to get people to do is to breathe and slow down and heal the person they look in the mirror so that they can heal their family. So that they can be part of the healing in their legacy. So that they can be part of the healing in their legacy, so that they can be part of the healing in their communities and in their country. Finding somebody new to hate will solve none of your problems. None of them.

It just ends up in piles and piles of bodies. Period. There is one person on planet Earth besides me that knows who I voted for this year, and that's my son, because I took him into the voting booth with me. They let me take him in this year. And I walked him through the whole democratic process, and I wanted him to know that in the middle of a pandemic, this is what democracy looks like.

And so I stand by my statement. There was no bombs going off on Inauguration Day. There was no fires raging at the Capitol on Inauguration Day. So democracy won. We transferred power. It happened. We did it civilly. And for generations and generations, thousands of years, that hasn't been how that's done. So whether you liked who's in the White House or you don't like who's in the White House, don't like how it's done, you think everything got stolen and you think it happened. They hand the baton over. And now we've got two choices. We can just continue to just poison everybody, hoping that somebody else, poison ourselves, hoping somebody else dies, right? Or we can do whatever we can

to help whatever president is in order, is successful, so we can all be successful together. So that's my thoughts on that. Hey, John, you know what the most shocking thing is to me? What's the most shocking thing? That person you said you're a forthcoming radio host.

Yeah. I mean, talk about eternal optimist talk about fake news i mean i don't think that there is nothing more hashtag fake news than um i'm a upcoming national radio broadcast host guys i run a podcast that like seven people and my mom listened to and my mom does it in secret she doesn't want her friends to know that she listens to this. My wife, I was like, hey, how many of you listen to? She just turned beet red. She's like, I've never ever downloaded even. I don't want that on my feed because it's weird. And I've got a couple of buddies that just will text me every once in a while.

Okay, dude, your podcast sucks. That's pretty much all that it is, man. Not really. It is. That hurt my feelings, James. But you know what? You know what? I'm going to be kind. I'm going to default to unity, which evidently is a politicized term. What happens if they politicize, um, let's all eat?

Like, oh, I see now. Hmm. We're just going to start eating? Yes. Yes. Let's just eat. Is my goal in 2021 to politicize rando words i'm gonna make it i'm gonna do it all i can and we're gonna have a blast like oh you're just gonna drive your car now is that what i'm gonna make it it's gonna be great all right all right let's all y'all tired of listening to me let's go to my good friend barbara in dallas texas barbara thanks for hanging on there and letting me do some housekeeping. How are you this morning? I'm doing good, Dr. John. How are you? Good, good, good. How's Dallas, Texas? It's pretty good. Yesterday was actually a good day to go out. Very cool.

Warm. Very cool. All right. So, hey, how's it going? What can I do? How can I help? Okay. So I'm calling to ask about how I can navigate my husband, most likely being an alcoholic. I'm getting to a point where I don't want to be in this anymore if I'm going to have to be the adult every single night and put our kids to bed while he's like junk a little too much. He's not got to sleep on the couch. Um, so we are both 25, we're married and we have a toddler and a newborn. And why, why it hurts so much to me is for one, obviously I love this guy. I do not want to see him go down a hole. And then two, my parents have gone through so much to end a generational curse of alcoholism.

And obviously, with that being said, we both come from families who have or still abuse alcohol. And I just really don't want to get to a point where I'm going to be in the hospital and I'm going to find myself seeing my husband with liver cirrhosis or just something like that. And I deserve better. He deserves better. And our children do too. Yeah. I'm high-fiving you and I'm heartbroken for you. I'm hugging you and high-fiving you at the same time. I'm so sorry that's happening. So let's walk back a little bit. Is this new behavior, or has he always been the guy that had one or two too many, but he was funny about it, he was silly about it,

and now it's starting to wear on you because you've got little kids, or has this come on in the last couple of years as you've brought toddlers home into the house? Okay, so we've been together since we were about 14 or 15 years old. Okay. So all throughout high school, he was very adamant about not drinking, not doing any of that. And then after high school, we had a breakup, and then he ended up dropping out of college. And in that state that he was in of, like, our breakup, him leaving school, I guess he felt like, in a sense, he wasn't good enough.

So, of course, there was some sort of trauma, I guess, from that. And that's whenever he started developing how to have it. And then we got together. So that's whenever he started developing how to have it. And then we got together. So that was in 2015. We had broken up for a year. And so I guess he developed those in 2015, 2016. And so we got back together in 2016 and eventually got married in 2018. And in 2018, it wasn't as bad, but I could see there was some, for lack of better words, demons that he brought along into our marriage that he didn't put down. So why did you marry a guy that you saw with a problem?

I guess you can say I'm a fixer person. I thought us getting married and planning our future was going to send an alarm in his head saying, oh, there's something better for me. Barbara, you are sweet and kind like me. I thought that the country would just come together, and look at that. So look at us, right? We're such naive optimists.

So does he have alcoholism in his family or mental health issues or trauma in his family? He's got it too? Yes. Okay. His dad passed away at a very young age. His stepdad, I hate to say this, but I think his stepdad uh i i hate to say this but i think his stepdad has a drinking problem too okay um and i think uh it's it was more of a learned behavior for him because his stepdad started drinking whiskey and the next thing you know

a month later my husband's going to specks and buying a bottle of whiskey i'm just like so so how when you've sat down and talked to him, how does that conversation go? He thinks I'm belittling him. Okay. Are you? No, not at all. I've come from a family where my dad used to do that when I was a very, very, very small child. I barely remember it.

And I know that it can lead to so many other bigger problems. And I just don't want him to find himself in a big problem where he can't, he thinks he can't get out of because whenever you drink, you're, it's not really you, you're being controlled by that substance. Well, sometimes. And if you're an alcoholic and you've got a problem and you're intoxicated all the time, then yeah. So how can I help you? I just, I don't know how to help him. So I'm going to be totally honest with you, okay? Okay. Both up and down. Number one, you you can't you can't make him do anything you

can't um weaponizing your body weaponizing your kids weaponizing the home and family he has won't fix that problem um a great mighty um blowout fight won't fix that problem he's gonna have to make a decision that he's gonna have to plug in and be the dad that those kids desperately deserve that he is not going to continue a legacy that wasn't his biological dad's fault he passed away he's not but he's got a legacy in his soul now of a disconnection between his son and his dad. And alcohol fills that for a while. It actually works. That's the problem with it.

It works for a while. And it helps numb that forest fire in your soul for a season, right, until it burns everything around you down. He's going to have to learn some behaviors and decide, I'm to be the kid that these i'm going to be the father these kids deserve and what you're going to have to do is develop boundaries and be real honest with him and you're going to have to get a community of people around you and he's going to need people in his life and there is a chance that a a a letter that he can hear that you write that is not going to war with him, but is compassionate and letting him know that you love him and you are by him and he's your guy and you are in all of this, but that you are losing him and you want him back.

And here's what that's going to look like. Here's why I like letters, and I say letters almost every show. Here's why I like it. When you talk to an addict, when you talk to an angry person, and they feel the slightest bit of you versus them, every wall they have throws up and they don't hear you, right? And then he says things like, you're belittling me, you're attacking me, which honestly you might be. You may not feel like you are, but you may be hearing it that way, right? A letter allows him to get defensive and get his feelings hurt and then come back to it and then come back to it.

And you get to hold it in your hand. There's something about the tactile. It's not an email either, especially it's not a text, for God's sake. But you get to hold a handwritten letter. He gets to see your handwriting. And there's something about going back to it and going back to it that it slowly can seep through you. It doesn't always work. You can throw it away.

You can water it up and throw throw in a fireplace right um but letting him know that you're losing him and that you have a if he's not hurting your kids and he's um he's neglecting your kids let him know man the kids miss you i miss And we, and you both probably have some learning to do on how to be connected, intentional, unified parents. Oh, great. I used the word unity again. There I go, throwing liberal propaganda all over my show, being unified parents, right? Y'all gonna have to both learn how to do that. If you come from a house alcoholics do, you're going to have to learn that as well, right? But if you offer to do it together, he may join you. He may not. That doesn't mean that you don't have to, you don't need to go learn some skills on your own. So, write him that letter and make it heartfelt. Take him out somewhere or have a place where the kids are gone. You've got a babysitter and y'all can have a heart-to-heart conversation.

That's not a fight. That's something y'all plan together and that you can, he can actually hear you. And if you can't, he can't have that, then it may just be leaving that letter for him and letting it marinate, right? And then the second thing is, is you got to go start taking care of you. That means I'm going to recommend you go see somebody. Go see a marriage counselor. Go see a counselor on your own and let them know I've got trauma in my background that I've got to deal with.

I need to learn how to be a connected, good mom. No 25-year-old married couple with two little ones are going to have great lives right now. They're just not. They're going to be filled with no sleep and exhaustion and people walking around looking like they were hit by a bus. And everybody's falling asleep on the couch all the time. That's part of it. And sometimes getting a counselor that can walk you through some of that is relieving, right? It gives you some peace.

And hopefully he will see you standing taller, being more intentional, being more plugged in, being more whole, and he's going to want to be a part of that. But all of that rests on a foundation of you can't solve him. You can't cure him. You can't make him. He's going to have to make some hard, hard decisions in his own soul. My hope is he's got a couple of men there in his life that will be really up in his face, and it will be intentional with holding him accountable in a way that you can't. And my hope is that a letter and a night together, that's not a fight, that's not a war, but that is a, hey, we got to come together. He'll hear you. He'll finally hear you. This is a hard one, Barbara, and I don't want to make it light. My guess is you're going

to have some seasons of rough waters ahead. And don't let any of this deflect you from the kind of parent and the kind of mom that your kids desperately, desperately deserve. Don't let any of this reflect on you, that you have a right to boundaries. You have a right to safety. You have a right to a whole, healthy, well life. And, man, I hope he plugs in. I want you to do me this huge favor, Barbara. I want you to write him this letter.

I want you to be vulnerable and have this hard conversation with him in a compassionate way, in an offline way, in an intentional way. And then I want you to let me know how that goes. And if he doesn't hear it from you, tell him to call the show and I'd love to talk to him as well. I've talked to my fair share of 25-year-old Texans who love whiskey and who are struggling with dealing with two young kids and a wife that loves them. And I'd love to have that conversation with him too. But thank you so, so much for that call. All right. Before we go to Jack, I get a lot of emails, questions about, it's kind of the problem du jour is both narcissism. We've talked about that on the show and gaslighting, right? What is gaslighting, gaslighting, gaslighting this, gaslighting that? Here's all gaslighting is. It's a form of

psychological warfare when someone you love or someone you think you love, someone who tells you they love you, makes you feel unsteady spiritually, psychologically, emotionally by getting you to doubt and question your own heart, your own feelings, your own soul. So, for instance, let's just say you're a 30-year-old woman married to a guy and he comes home late five days in a row. And he starts not letting anybody look at his phone. You can't see my phone. You can't see my phone.

And then all of a sudden, your phone calls. Your phone rings from your friend, and she says, Hey, your husband was out with some other lady the other night. Did you know that's happening? And you ask him about it. You start putting, well, one plus two plus three, wait a minute. And you ask him, hey, you've not been coming home on time and you've been, you know, hiding your phone a lot. And my friend just said you were having dinner with somebody else. And the response is, whoa, where did these trust issues come from? Why don't you love me?

You're crazy. Can you not hear yourself? You're nuts. And you say, no, I'm not nuts. You've been coming home late and come to mention it. You were wearing a different shirt yesterday when you came home than you went to work. And the response is, you've got to get some sleep. You're crazy.

If you want to go through my phone, you've got some real trust issues you need to deal with. And I love you and I'm married to you, but whoa. I don't know where all this is coming from. Your friend's a liar. I was having coffee with a coworker who was working through a problem. Are you suddenly the jealous type? I never took you to be the jealous type. If this suddenly happened, man, you may want to get your hormones checked.

That's gaslighting. Someone who looks at very simple patterns of behavior, can't own up to, hey, you know what? I was late. I'm sorry. That sucks. I should have been on time. I was late. I'm an idiot, and I'll fix that. But instead says, whoa, whoa, whoa, when did you start being so insecure that me being seven

minutes late was a big deal for you? What's happening in your heart, right? And it makes you begin to question yourself. So here's my rule of thumb there. If somebody in your life makes you feel small or less than, I want you to get by yourself and write down how you are feeling. And you hear me say this all the time. I'm going to keep saying all the time. I want you to mine your feelings for truth. I feel like I'm crazy because my husband came home late. He said this, he said this. And then I want you to get with a friend, and I want you to read about loud to that person, someone you trust, someone that you can lean into. And they will tell you, you know what, that feeling, you're nuts. That's not really real. And I've got guys in my life that have done that. My friend Craig, my friend Todd,

my friend John, they'll tell me, yeah, you're an idiot. That's not true. But they'll also say, hey, I hate to be the one that's going to call it out, man, but you're right. This is a big deal. And I've done that for people over the course of my life too many times to say, hey, I hate to be the guy that's telling you that, but she's going to leave you. Or I hate to be the guy that's telling you that, but he's struggling with a drug addiction, whatever that happens to be. So, write down these thoughts. Write down your feelings. Demand evidence from them.

Mine them for truth. And then read it to somebody that you trust. And then if somebody in your life is gaslighting, it's insidious. It's a form of abuse that is so insidious because it makes you question you. If somebody hits you with a 2x4, you know they're psychotic, right? They're evil. But if you keep questioning your own feelings and your own thoughts and your own relationships, it starts to make you feel bananas. And you slowly start to drown as though it's a giant snapping turtle just pulling you underwater slowly. And it's insidious and it

can grow roots that will stay with you for the rest of your life. Cut gaslighters completely out of your life. It's a tactic. It's nonsense and it's evil. Cut them out of your life and get somebody to walk alongside you while you do. So that's my thoughts on gaslighting. If you've got questions about particular things, I'd love to hear from you. Give me a call. And by the way, I forgot to put the number at the beginning of the show. Great production job there, James, for calling that one out. It's 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Give me a call or go to johndeloney.com slash show, fill out the form. It goes to Kelly and we will rendezvous on the show. All right, let's go to Jack in Kansas City, Missouri.

Brother Jack, how are we doing, man? Hey, I'm doing great, Dr. D. I really appreciate talking to you. I appreciate you calling, man. How can I help this morning? Well, I need to preface my question with some serious gratitude. Between you and Dave and Chris, I mean, just a huge part of my premarital dating life to prepare us for the realities and manage our expectations for marriage. And it just means so much to us. My

wife is a huge fan of yours from day one. So it's an honor to talk to you. Well, she joins my mom as she doubles my audience so i'm appreciative of that jack and um before we move on can you go ahead just real quick for me just rank in order of importance who's the who's the most important me dave or chris i'm just getting done to that oh come on i'm clearly number one all right so so brother Jack, so are you newly married? Yeah. A month ago, I'm 52 and a month ago I married a 49 year old virgin. Okay. So is this your first marriage? It is my second marriage. Second marriage. Okay. And I'm assuming this is her first marriage? Exactly. Okay. All right. So you're a month in and you are 52. So you're halfway home, right?

And I don't know why I always go to talking about death. Sorry about that. But hey, you're living your best life at 52. You got remarried and you married a 49-year-old who's never had sex before.

Right. Okay. Right. I'm assuming that's why you're calling yeah yeah um we're having you just call me with a retirement question man just how do we move the 401 over whatever i won't know how to answer that but i can at least do as good as hogan can right but all right so go yeah I mean this is a unique situation so um I I uh I feel like we're having some intimacy challenges where we've had some attempts to consummate and with varying degrees of of success but um there's a lot of fear um of physical intimacy with her. And I just need some tools and knowledge to kind of help

because she, um, basically, you know, was single for so long that she just kind of divorced herself from that physical side of pleasure was a foreign word, I think. Um, so, so she's kind of reintegrating, you know, even that language into that part of her life. And we knew this going in. It's not a surprise. We just are going to take our time with it, but I'm just, you know, I'm like...

Who are you, Jack? You're like the greatest guy I've ever met. Because you know what I was expecting?. Because you know what I was expecting? I was expecting you to say, what's wrong with my wife? And you're not. You are asking me, hey, man, how can I grow? How can I learn some stuff? How can I create a safe environment?

Brother, I'm telling you right now, if there's more Jacks in the world, we don't have all this nonsense, right? So you've made my heart feel good. And I'm just grateful to even be able to talk to you today. Just even your patience and your kindness is awesome. So a couple of broad, basic questions here. Does your wife have a history of trauma or is she just never find the right person and virginity was a thing she wanted to hang on to and then suddenly it turned into late 20s and late 30s and then suddenly she's almost 50 and then she finds the right guy? Or did she have a history there that she really needed to part ways with intimacy and any sort of vulnerability there? That's a great question. She had the only trauma that really played on her ability to form relationships with people was,

you know, she poured herself into her work after a death in the family. And that was hugely traumatic for her. And you're right, time slipped away. The opportunities, I guess, I hate to use the word dried up. That's such a horrible term. where if you don't go to your four-year undergraduate degree and then find somebody and you'll date for 18 and a half months and then get engaged and then get married, or you get your master's degree and then you're 29, if you don't follow the road, there's something wrong with you. And her purity became part of her identity because it was obviously her, we wanted to do things according to God's plan, and she did her whole life. So, that combined with everything

else just kind of ended up with her where she's at. So, sure. So, I guess my meta question is, is she interested in this? Does she want to have a great sex life with you and an intimate marriage and a fun, rambunctious, no-holds-barred relationship with you? I can't speak to rambunctious, but I can tell you that she wants a normal life in that area. Okay, I'm going to tell you, don't settle for normal. Okay? Normal is boring. Settle for rambunctious. Settle for two people that cultivate desire in one another.

And so we live in this funky place, and there's several great books you can read on just the evolution of marriage. In fact, me and my friend Rachel are going to have a whole event on this coming up in the next few months. But we've traded in the last 30 to 40 years, we've traded safety for intimacy. So you meet somebody and you're attracted to them and your heart races and you can't just wait to make out, right? And you practice safety.

Is he going to show up when he says he is? Is she going to show up when he says he is? Is she going to return my phone call? That first time one of you gets sick and the other one brings food by, you cultivate safety. And then what happens is you begin to trade. Safety doesn't, is butts heads with desire, right? To be crass about it, nobody wants to make out with their mom or their brother or their sister. That's safe. I know that person. There is no desire there, none, right?

But there's safety. And then as you feel safe with somebody, and y'all two are 50, you're halfway through life. Y'all understand safety. Y'all understand independence. Y'all understand safety. Y'all understand independence. Y'all understand those things. What they didn't tell us in premarital counseling, what they didn't tell us in grad school, they didn't tell us this at all. And our parents certainly didn't model this because they didn't know, is that once you achieve safety, once you have the hard money conversations and the

401 questions and you make a will together, once you feel safety, then, and it usually happens in your 30s and begins in your 40s and 50s especially, you have to practice desire. You've got to cultivate desire as though you are practicing safety early on in your relationship. And it feels weird to practice desire because that's not what Romeo and Juliet told us. They said, we're just going to walk into a room and be like, oh my gosh, there you are. Or, you know, Jack and Rose, they didn't, you know, Jack didn't see Rose on the Titanic and be like, what we need to do is to practice intimacy. No, man, they were like making out in some weird car and then they died to get, well, he died because she didn't let him on the door like a sucker. He could have fit on

the door. But here's the thing. So they are there. You got to practice it. And it feels weird to put sex on a calendar. It feels weird in your case to be intentional about going slow and saying, hey, we're going to have a relational goal of here. And the moment she feels unsafe, she gets to call it. And then we're out and we're going to go again. And you're going to have to practice patience. And you're going to have to practice what I like. It comes from Emily Nagoski.

I'm going to recommend a book for you two guys to read together. But you're going to have to practice turning on all the ons and turning off all the offs. Intimacy, especially in a marriage relationship is so often ecosystem related. It's environmental, right? Here's a good example. My wife likes to have all of the dishes done and the kitchen clean before anything else happens in the evening. And I became so insecure, I started taking that personally. And the story I told myself was, she would rather have a clean kitchen than hook up with

this nice piece of meat. Right. And I don't know if you can see me right now, Jack, I'm smoking hot. Okay. So I just, I got to where I was thinking, I'm not really, but I, I, that's why I do radio. I got to thinking, man, I can't believe that she would trade a clean kitchen over this. And it wasn't until we sat down and had some hard conversations that I realized she can't stop judging herself. She can't stop feeling an entire culture that says, if you don't have a kitchen that looks like this, if you don't have a heart that looks like this,

if you don't have a period at the end of these sentences, you're not a true wife. You're not a true mom. You're not a true fill in the blank, right? I didn't know all that baggage that comes along, how much it sucks to try to navigate the world as a working professional wife, mother, all that stuff. It's hard. And so, dude, what I decided to do is stop taking it personal. And then I try to clean the kitchen, man. If that's what it is, dude, I've got you on that, right? And it took us having this conversation about what's the environment look like? What are the offs and what are the ons? The book I want you two to read, this is not a faith-based book. You mentioned that y'all are both Christians and you have a Christian ethic. This is not a Christian

book. It's the best book I've ever read when it comes to talking about establishing, good grief, James, we need a dictionary on the show, establishing sexual intimacy, right? And so, a blow by the parts that you don't like, but there is an extraordinary discussion. And it's written for women, but it's called Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski. And it is exceptional when it comes to- I've heard you recommend that book before. I'd recommend y'all both read it together. And it will probably make her blush. It will probably give her freedom.

Here's one of the ultimate thesis of that book. Life is too short to not have an incredible sex life. It's just too short. Life is too short to pretend that guys just have a sex drive and girls just have a sex drive light. Those are not true. Either of those are not true. They're not real. And so she cuts through a lot of the myths and then she gives you a lot of tools for how couples can grow together and learn together.

And how women especially can learn these offs and ons and the brakes and the gas pedals, which is a different metaphor than drive. It's a great book for y'all to read together, but it's going to give you common language. And that's what y'all need here. It sounds like, brother, you have a heart of safety, a heart of go slow. And so what I want to do is give her some tools and give her some permission to – don't use the word normal in your house anymore. You got it? Yes.

We're not going to be normal. There's nothing normal about you all too, by the way, right? There's not. You're not a normal guy. The heart and compassion you have for your wife isn't normal. Her being a 49-year-old virgin is not normal. I say not normal. It's not common, right?

That's a better word to use. It's not common. And you all's decision to love each other recklessly with abandon. And I want every single 50-year-old couple listening to this show. I want every single 40-year-old couple, 30-year-old couple, mid-20s couple. I want you to get into the mindset of establishing desire. Romeo and Juliet lied to you. That's not real. That was two teenagers throwing a temper tantrum that ended up in a murder-suicide thing. It's

stupid. It's not real. What's real is cultivating desire, cultivating mystery, cultivating a spirit of, I refuse to have anything less than just a rambunctious, extraordinary sex life with my husband or my wife. I just don't. And so what do we have to do to get there? And that looks different for every single couple. Anyone who tells you, well, you should be idiots. You work it out together. Y'all build this together.

So, Jack, I love your heart. I was going to tell him to call me back. You don't need to call me back, Jack. I'm curious on 50 different levels. Don't call me back on this one. I love you, and I'm so glad I got to talk to you today, brother. All right, so as we wrap up today's show, man, we've talked politics, we've talked religion, we've talked sex.

What else have we talked? We've talked it all today, man. We've talked James and his just killing it over here as the producer of the show. Good job on the phone number, bro. All right, as we wrap up today, this literally is one of my favorite songs of all time, and I picked it specifically for today. It's by my favorite rock band that's on earth. It's a group called Social Distortion, and their 1996 album,

White Heat, White Light, White Trash The song is called I Was Wrong And it goes like this When I was young I was so full of fear And I hid behind anger and held back tears It was me against the world I was sure that I'd win

But the world fought back and punished me for my sins And I felt so alone and so insecure But I blamed you instead And made sure I was heard and they tried to warn me of my evil ways, but I couldn't hear what they had to say. I was wrong. Self-destruction got me again. I was wrong. And I think about my loves. I've had a few. I'm sorry that I hurt them. Did I hurt you too? I took what I wanted and I put my heart on a shelf. How can you love me when you don't love yourself

and it's me against the world and I was sure that I'd win and they tried to warn me of my evil ways but I couldn't hear what they had to say exhale, I was wrong good folks, we've all been wrong and we've all been right we've got to do this together this has been the Dr. John Deloney Show.