The Dr. John Delony Show - I Think I May Be a Jerk of a Husband

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: - A husband hoping to do better in his marriage - A wife desperate to connect with her husband - A woman wondering how to stop feeling guilty for her boundaries with family Lyrics of the Day: "Desperately" - Slaughter Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp Hallow Organifi Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I was listening to your show a couple months ago on the podcast, and I heard a couple qualities of the jerk husband, and a few of them rang the court with me and need some help, man. Bro, that's a big step for you to say, hey, that's me, and I don't want to be like this anymore. Good for you, man. You got my mad respect on that, man.

What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show, a show about your marriage, whoever it is you're trying to date, your kids, being a good dad, being a good mom, your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. On this show, we take calls from people all over planet earth who are trying to figure out what's going on in their life, how they can get out of a messy situation, what they can do

next to better love their families, to be better husbands, be better wives, whatever you got going on in your life. This show is about real people going through real stuff. If you want to be on, I'd love to have you on. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And it makes all the difference in the world when you hit the subscribe button on the YouTube channel. If you hit the subscribe button, wherever it is you consume podcasts, it's just been astounding to me, the growth this last year in the show. People are coming from all over the place. I'm so grateful to have everybody here. And if you'll hit that subscribe button, it makes all the difference in the world. It dumps the show into the algorithms and it puts it in front of other people who are just simply into the rope and they reach for a computer or for

their phone and they just type in, how do I be a better dad? How do I be a better husband? Or what's happening with me and my wife? And then this show gets dropped into their algorithm because you hit subscribe, something that simple and cost anything didn't take much time so thank you so so much for doing that all right let's reach out to todd in salt lake city what's up todd not much how are you we're partying dude what's up i'm just working um okay my question i was listening to your show a couple months ago on the podcast and I heard a couple qualities of the jerk husband and a few of them rang the cord with me and need some help, man.

I almost think you instantly opt out of jerk husband. Well, I won't say you automatically opt out, but bro, that's a big step for you to say, hey, that's me and I don't want to be like this anymore. Good for you, man. You got my mad respect on that, man. So what are you working through?

You know, just one of the characteristics that stood out, and I've told my wife that she takes the victimhood route sometimes, and so that definitely strung a chord. Just a lot of distance between us, more often than not, and it's me. I'm guarded. I have my barriers up and just can't quite figure out why. I mean, dude, you were at the starting line, man. Congratulations.

How long have you been married? 18 years. 18 years. You got kids? Four kids. Tell me about your wife. She's a good mom, good wife. She's been primarily a stay-at-home wife for a long time,

just kind of getting back into the working world. So she's taking that on. How long have you protected yourself from her? A long time, dude. Probably like, I would say 10 years 12 years what kicked that off i think it came off when she like when she found out i was watching pornography back a long time ago and the way she reacted to that and a lot of the emotional turmoil and things that happened um with that okay a lot of shame emotional turmoil and things that happened with that.

Okay. A lot of shame, embarrassment, you know, she felt inadequate, all those things. And then you ended up with a lot of shame and embarrassment and you felt inadequate. And you kind of just built your own house on either side of the river there, huh? Yeah, 100%. Okay. What was... I'm from a... I guess you'd call it a new camp, if you will.

Where... I'll call them vices, for lack of better terms. Just the easiest way to describe them. But things that we do that we know in the long term aren't good for us, they're going to kill us in some shape, form, or fashion. But in the short term, work, they help. And it might sound crazy, but I classify pornography in that boat.

It works in the very, very short term, and then it kind of destroys everything over time. What was pornography getting you at the time? Because here's my guess is, my guess is it got called out with that one particular thing. But my guess is the separation was way before that even. Yeah, you're right, probably. I would say what did it get me? It got me

decompression, stress release. I was going through school at the time, pretty newly married, a kid on the way, so there was a lot going on. And, you know, traditionally I didn't think of myself as a smart person. So school has always been a challenge for me.

So there's a lot of stress and it was kind of a high stakes program. So a lot of stress and anxiety. And it's something I've been doing since I was young to kind of deal with emotional stuff. Sure. I want to go beneath the stress and anxiety though, because it does like, you know, pornography, alcohol, all that stuff, like certain drugs, they work as a Xanax, right? Actually, Xanax works as a Xanax, right?

It works. But you said something underneath that that's really important. You were in a very tough academic program and you've never been a smart guy. Insert story here. You're a guy who works really hard and you like to have answers for your friends and now you had a kid on the way you i'm gonna i love this woman i love my

girlfriend we're gonna have this fun marriage we're going to have sex all the time now you're about to be a dad and you've never been married to a pregnant woman i don't know how to do this either and so there's that less than less than less than shame a pregnant woman. I don't know how to do this either. So there's that less than, less than, less than shame. I should know and I don't know and I don't know and I don't know and I'm just going to go to this one. And I love how you said it's stress release because most people think they go to it for X

or for Y or for Z. Many, many millions of people go to it as a way to distract themselves from a life they don't like. Or a life that, here's a better, I don't know how to do. So then you foster that and you just pour gasoline on it for 10 years or 20 years, right? And now you're here almost knocking on the door of two decades of being married. And is that phrase, you sit by each other on the couch,

you're six inches apart, but 6,000 miles away from each other. A lot of times. Yeah. So you want to, you want to make your way back or is this, is this when you call it? Cause a lot of people get this far and they're like, dude,

we had a good run and we raised good kids. We held together a good household for the back half of our life. Let's split up and let's ride or die with somebody. That's just going to be wheels off. No, man. It's worth working back to you. Yeah, for sure. Okay.

So, we don't have a ton of time together. I'd love to talk to you and your wife sometime. What can I help you with today? What are you thinking about that you want to work through that you want to think about doing differently? I want

to work my way back. Just learn how to lower my walls, you know? Get those defenses down that are primarily on my side of the river, so to speak. Okay. So I think there's two things at play here. Number one, y'all both, y'all can't move into one another's house on either side of the river. Y'all have to both leave the house you're in and decide together we're going to build a new one. So you have to think of it this way.

The marriage up until now, 18 years, it's gotten you here. We're going to decide to build a new marriage. And in this new marriage, I am going to be this, this is what I need in this new marriage season. And I want you to not think, because I can hear it in your voice, bro, you're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. Yeah. Okay.

Your body has a very keen understanding of what happens when you get embarrassed in front of your wife. She nukes you. And your body knows, okay, cool. We hide. That's where we go.

And your body got a bunch of cinder blocks, started building some walls. And that way nobody's getting inside the inner Todd. And it actually, it keeps the peace, right? Yeah. It also keeps all the good stuff out, too. Yeah. Right.

And so the only way through it, I wish there was another way, bro. The only way through it is to bite down on your mouthpiece and head directly through it. And that's to sit down with your wife and say, in an effort to protect myself from getting embarrassed or feeling ashamed, I walled off and I forced you to chase me and live off gulps of air for the last 20 years. And I'm not doing that anymore. And I want to be fully present with you. I don't want to be vulnerable.

I don't want us to be open. I want to build a new kind of marriage. And I don't know how to do that. And by the way, it's going to feel weird as all crap to her too. Intellectually, she wants something different.

She's been trying to get it for so long. But often when somebody just starts being vulnerable, their partner melts. Yeah. Like, just suck it up. I mean, they start saying

crazy stuff and you're like, I've been asking for this for 20 years and I can't get it. Right. Um, give me one behavior you want to change. Gosh. Um,

let me, let me ask you this before, before that, are you, what are you using now to relieve stress? Still pornography from time to time, but getting a handle on it. Cause I'm, I basically rebuilt my life in the last two years on my, you know, just working on myself,

doing some leadership stuff and, you know, just bettering myself. And I think I'm better to be able to go back in and help repair my marriage. Can I tell you something really hard? Yeah. This is going to go against all the bro science that we know. Okay. If you are married, you cannot work on yourself in isolation. Sure. Okay, sir. Okay. So good for you, man.

You've done a bunch of stuff, but you haven't done the hard stuff. And you're going to be like, what are you talking about? I started working out. I started listening to Jocko podcast. I started doing all this. I started working out. I started listening to Jocko podcast. I started doing all this. I started taking supplements. When you're married, all of your changes impact her because y'all are one.

Yeah. It's like the quarterback can't just run out and be like, dude, I'm not running those plays anymore. He's got to tell the team. The team has to work together to run those two plays. Yeah. Because the first few plays, he may actually fool everybody on the field and get some good gains,

and then after a while, he's going to get himself killed. Yeah. Because there's nobody blocking with him. I just didn't know how to bring her in. No, I got that. Yeah, it's a skill set. It's a skill set.

And I think you sit down and... I recommended this on a couple of shows ago, and it sounds strange, and it sounds so, dude, I'm going to get so much bloody hell for it on the internets and I just don't care. But there's something about literally taking a knee in front of your wife

as though you're proposing to her and holding both of her hands and saying, I've hidden most of my life from you for 20 years. I'm not cheating on you. I don't have a big addiction. I do struggle with pornography still. I have been trying to get better, but I've been trying to do it by myself.

And you and I breathe the same air. We are creating something together. And so I can't move unless you move with me. Yeah. Are you all in? And you have to figure out what that means for y'all does that sound scary oh scares the crap out of me man how come freaking out is she gonna leave you oh no i think being vulnerable like just feeling like i hate that word but yeah being vulnerable did i hate that word i hate it man god i don't know what to call it but yeah that's I hate that word? I hate it, man. God, I hate it. I don't know what else to call it, but yeah. That's all it is.

And part of me getting over my hatred of that word is by saying it. Yeah. And all vulnerability means is this. It means that you can hurt me with what I'm about to tell you. Yeah. What I'm about to tell you is I love you and I want you I want to be more connected with you and I don't know how to do that and you're gonna go and she's gonna say like I need you to have all the answers no I don't know any white that says that they're like oh thank god

right um but then it feels weird coming back but it sounds like that's the first place to start. And that doesn't mean that you're not tough. It doesn't mean you don't lift weights. That doesn't mean I'm doing something with Jocko and like in two weeks, it doesn't mean you don't hang. I love that guy. Uh, you don't not listen to Jocko.

I thought that means, yeah, it means that every morning you wake up and you say, Hey honey, how can I love you today? Okay. I've heard you say that a lot. It makes me cringe inside.

Okay, tell me that. Your voice is important because there's a million men who listen and go, oh, God, okay, whatever. Why does that make you cringe? Again, it's a place that makes me vulnerable, right? Is it because you're supposed to know? Maybe. Or is it because that's not even my freaking job?

I'm not going to love her today. I'm going out to kill something, drag it home, and make the money. What is it because that's not even my freaking job? I'm not going to love her today. I'm going out to kill something, drag it home, and make the money. Like, what is it? I think it's because I don't know how to do it. I just don't know how to do it. Yeah. Yeah, it's not about, yeah, I'm going to go work today, but I don't know how to do it.

So maybe I'm afraid of failing on that front again. Damn, Todd! Dude, that's what I was scared of. Scared to death. What if my wife says, here's what I need you to love me. I need you to help with bedtime with the kids. And I have to look my wife in the eye and say, I don't know how to do that. Yeah.

Or my daughter doesn't want me to read her bedtime stories. And she will scream and kick and tell me to get out, and I can't handle that. I don't know how to handle that. That was my house. Okay, yeah. Like, I didn't know how to do it. And the thing that I love about you is,

like, what do you do for a living? I'm a nurse. Yeah, dude. How many times have you been put in a situation, you got to figure it out because that cat on that table is about to die? Yeah, often. That's who you are.

But in that situation, I'm going to give some insider baseball. You'll get this, Todd, but most people listening who are not in the emergency response world won't get this. They train us early on. You always have to bring a calm presence to that kind of situation when someone's going to die

because you bringing chaos and it just makes everything worse. And they always tell us at the end of the day, it's their emergency, not yours. So bring your peace to the situation, right? And so what I'm going to say is awful, and I know, but it's, it's, it's instructive. If you give it your all with one of your patients and they don't make it, you're devastated and there's grief, but they're the ones who passed away.

Yeah. In this situation, if you give it your all and something doesn't work, your wife can look at you and say, I reject that. Yeah. You've hurt me for 20 years. You're using pornography again. I'm out. I'm divorcing you. Just like I told you 10 years ago. Yeah.

Right? That can all happen. That's vulnerability. She could kill you. But also, in my house, I lead with, I'm scared to say this out loud. My wife says, I hear that. That's a good She could kill you. But also in my house, I lead with, I'm scared to say this out loud. My wife says, I hear that.

And that's a good way to start. Yeah. And I think that's how she'll respond. So she will, she will. Hey, I'm, I can't tell you how proud of you I am.

Oh, thank you. What you're embarking on is really, really hard. It's a challenge. Hang on the line here. I'm going to give you a copy of building a non-Anxious Life, and I'll go ahead and drop in the thing. I'll go ahead and drop in Own Your Past, Change Your Future. Building a Non-Anxious Life, I think, is going to give you and your wife a roadmap, an architectural blueprint to build this new house together.

And here's what I think is going to be important. You're a nurse. You run hard. You save lives. And you're a father. And you're a husband. You got all of this stuff that's pent up and it builds and it builds and it builds and it builds. And you don't have an off ramp for it. And what that means is you've built a very anxious world. And then pornography, alcohol, texting that woman back at work, whatever the thing is that gives you that release that, ah, that's what kills you. And so if you build something from the inside out, from the floor up that is non-anxious in its structure, then you can go in and do crazy hard jobs like being a nurse, like being a fireman, like being a military person, like being a police officer, like being a

teacher, like being an attorney, like being any number of professions, business owner, you can go do really hard things and fight hard, bite down on your mouthpiece and punch and kick hard, but your body never over does it. Doesn't go into anxiousness or panic. Proud of you, my brother. You're on your way. You're on your way. You're asking great, hard questions. Take a knee, take both your wife's hands and say, I love you. I'm ready to build something new. Are you in? Then hold on tight because she may just blow your mind. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around.

But one thing you might not think about though is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people.

And that's another reason why I love hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour, and you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day.

It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself and sometimes you do this with a group and Halo helps you with both. Download the

number one prayer app on planet earth, Halo, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, let's go out to Vermont and talk to Jen. What's up, Jen? Well, hello.

What's up? I don't know what to lead with. How about this? Start singing your favorite song and I'll rank you one to lead with. How about this? Start singing your favorite song and I'll rank you one to 10 on how good you are. Let's not. Awesome. So, hey, no, it's all good. I'm glad that you're here.

What's up? Yeah. Um, okay. Um, typed up some notes yesterday and they're nowhere near with me. So that's not even useful. Hey, can you do me a huge favor? Your thing's cutting in and out. Oh, that's terrible.

I'm sorry. Is that better? Keep talking? Okay. So anyway, I don't know if I should lead with thinking back on it. I'm third generation of not good marriage,

and I want to stop that so my daughter's got a good chance? Or should I lead with that my husband's grumpiness is kind of becoming his status quo and when he becomes happy, I don't even know what to do with that. Or should I lead with

we've been married 12 years and if we've been physically intimate five times, I'd be surprised. Yeah. Let's go with option C. Okay. That will get the most YouTube clips. Actually, the clicks. I'm really interested in your second question.

Let's loop back there because I already have a sense, but I'm really interested in your second question. Um, let's, let's loop back there because I already have a sense, but I'm just guessing. Um, I'm just, I'll just be fishing in the dark, but that's a fascinating question. You just asked,

um, so y'all been married 12 years. You've had sex five times. You think? Wow. Probably. Yes. I mean, I'm not really exaggerating one way or the other with that.

Why? Listen, Counseling 101, never ask why questions. So thankfully, we're not doing therapy. Like, why? Like, what's happened over a decade that either of y'all have put up with that? Um, Oh my goodness. I don't even, it, um, it depends on who you talk to.

I'm only talking to Jen. I understand. That's true. Okay. So for me, it was, um, turned into lack of, lack of trust in the fact that lack of support, lack of,

I don't feel like this is a partnership in any way, shape or form. Um, I was definitely feeling like a single mom. I was, hold on, hold on, hold on,

hold on, hold on, hold on. Does he want to sleep with you and you just won't? Or has he had no interest in you for 12 years? Well, right now, there's really no interest. Yeah, I mean, it's 12 years. He's so mad.

Okay. But there was. He had a, like, when y'all got married, most people have, I'm gonna say most people. But when we first, first got married, no, I was like, are we gonna,

like, I believe the technical term is consummate. Uh-huh. And like six months into the marriage, we went back to a marriage counselor

that we had seen when we were engaged. And my question was, we haven't had sex yet. So I was the one pushing that Jen I am rarely speechless and you just got me you got me it's a little nutty Wow I mean I would say nutty but it's very very very abnormal but so my question to you is six months is a really long time. For some six hours, six minutes is a really long time. Like what were the conversations like?

Um, I really weren't. It's the weirdest. And it's shocking to me because we're both, I don't want to, we're both smart people. It has nothing to do with intelligence. Yeah, it has nothing to do with that. But we have, we're morons when it comes to any of this. Okay. And I'll be straight up.

15 minutes ago, my husband was just sitting at my desk, just anyway, trying to get a cell phone. And he was at my desk and he saw my day planner open and he was on hold. And he goes, hey, what's that? And I was on hold for you. And in it, I had written, you know, disappointment in my day planner. I had to. And he was like, what's that? And he goes, you're not doing that, are you? And I'm like, well, yeah, I'm going to. And he was like, what? And I was, my whole thing was, I'm like, because I'll grasp at straws. I lost what you just said. What'd you say, ma'am?

I said, I'll just grasp at anything. Not to be little what you do. No, no, trust me. It's definitely, you were scraping the bottom of the barrel here. Here's what it feels like, okay? Yes, sir. It feels like one of a couple of things. There is way, way, way more to the story. And when I say that, I mean like abuse, like some severe trauma responses some very significant not emotional distress but mental health disorders there's something else going on here that's number one number two um and by the way you and i just are meeting i'm very very direct okay because in

most of that is because i've i i love you and most of that is because I've got a very compressed time, right? So it's only 10 minutes, right? It sounds like for 10 or 12 years, you've been stepping over $1,000 checks and $100 bills to pick up pennies. Like, we're grasping at straws here that we haven't sat down and asked our husband, like, I want to have sex with you. Can we try this? I feel distant from you. Can we plug in? I feel like a single mom.

Can we connect here? And instead of entering into that conversation that admittedly may go awful, may end up in us separating. Instead of us, but it may also end up in us fixing everything. Instead of that, we wait six months and then we just call a professional. It's like a tiny little fire getting lit in the actual fireplace. But we just don't deal with it. We just don't deal with it.

And six months later, the whole house is on fire. Now we've got to call the fire department. Right. And so I guess circle back. I mean, I can't unwind this in one small segment. How can I help you right now? What are you aiming for? What's your goal here?

My goal would be, I really like when you've mentioned to parents where they're like, eh, my relationship with my kid, I don't know. And whatever age, if they're still at home, they're like, get a notebook. Have the kid write something, you write something. And I'm like, what a basic that's basic that works, that builds. I guess I'm just...

I only tell parents to do that with kids because kids don't have the intellectual plus the emotional ability to articulate in a conversation. Right. Adults should have that.

And so if you're unable to, if you and your husband are unable to sit across the table and say, dude, we have been living a farce for 12 years. Cause you calling and saying, I'm frustrated, my husband's grumpy. That's like... That's what we call it, right.

Yeah, but I mean, that's like your house burning down to the ground and you calling 911 because it's hot outside. That's not the issue here. You saying, hey, I am committed to being the one who breaks the cycle of bad marriages. And out of the gate, six months, and I say intimacy, I'm not talking about intercourse.

Intimacy, being able to just talk about it with each other. And so instantly the recipe for a marriage that's dysfunctional or that's not working for either of you that creates a home that's full of tension and chaos repeats itself again. And that's not on you. That's on the whole system. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

Completely. I've been working with a killer therapist for nine months now. Okay. Awesome. For me, if it was just me, one-on-one, from my perspective, I'm radically different. Awesome. The people that are really close to me, some coworkers, they can totally tell the difference, they said. I'm like, okay, that's cool. My husband, obviously, not really.

That's not surprising to me. Because he's just one change. Yeah, it was. Esther Perel tells it because y'all are in it's just one change yeah it was Esther Perel tells it y'all are in the dance y'all haven't addressed the dance right

like y'all have a rhythm and a routine in fact you don't even know what to do with him when he's not grumpy and so the incentive inside

his own home is to be grumpy it's like you don't even know what to say to him when he starts speaking to you in Italian. You just want him to speak Spanish because that's the language you know. That's the language your kid knows. That's the language the house dynamic knows.

And so even when he peeks his head out and there's joy, it's not met with any sort of reciprocal joy. It's met with, who is this? And he's like, oh. And he goes back to grump, right? So there's this dynamic set up in your home. Right.

And the only way that it gets busted is somebody, you've heard me say this, someone's got to turn the lights on, turn the music off, stop dancing. And what does that mean in real life? That's a big metaphor. People ask me like, what does it actually mean? That means you getting a babysitter for your child, your kids,

and you sitting across the table from your husband and saying, we haven't had sex in 10 years. You don't like being around me, and I don't even know how to interact with you when you're grumpy. I want a different kind of marriage. Are you in to build something completely new based on grace and forgiveness and trying new things moving forward? Because what we've been doing does not work. Anything short of that, you're going to go to therapy you're going to become this amazing new person on the inside you're going to walk back into your house right back into the same

costume that you always wear until one of you either has the courage to call it or one of the other one does something just so dumb, cheats on somebody, steals something from somebody, does something awful that then everybody can go, look what they did. Or your child starts acting out to try to get somebody's attention to say, please, can we cut the tension in this home because I can't breathe. Often the way I phrase this is you have to choose your heart. There's not an easy path out of this. Right. It's either going to end in a supernova, or it's going to end in a whimper and an ash, or it's going to be something built completely new, and it's going to be amazing.

Why are you so avoidant of that conversation? Is he abusing you? No, there's a lot of everything is said. You're trying to accuse me of stuff. Here you come. You're blaming me again for everything. You're, it all is. And I'm like, I'm not blaming you.

I want to just, can we just have a normal conversation? Can we like actually write things on paper? Can we together do, I brought some of the suggestions that my therapist has said, some of the things that I've heard on your show and it turns into basically another argument, another full shutdown.

I'll have another five, six days of no communication. So behavior is a language. What's he telling you? That... I'll give you his language. He does not want to be married to you. That's what his behavior is telling you. Tell me I'm wrong.

I'd love being wrong. I'd like to. But that's been the language since we were dating. Okay. Until you choose to live in that reality, you're going to continue chasing ghosts. It's going to be exhausting. Here's the other thing. You may be wrong.

There's been a couple of times in my marriage over 21 years, 20 and a half years when my wife... I mean, when he's been in his happy mood, or we actually have a conversation, he looks at me and he's even like, you know, for him, shed tears a few times while saying it. And he says that, he said, I am married to you

because for any reason, whether it was a good reason or a bad reason, I believe God brought us together. And I believe that I on purpose chose you to be my wife. He has said that probably three times, three or four times in the last year and a half. And I'm like, so do I believe that? It doesn't matter what he says. What if I just walked down the street, Jen, announcing to the world how in shape I am? Right. It doesn't matter.

God wants me to be in shape and I chose this gym. And I just announced that. God called me to be ripped and I chose this gym. Do you ever go in that gym and work out? No. Right. I'm not talking to you for six days for even asking that question. You bastard.

Like, what are you? I don't care what he says. So what's the conversation that i have with them i'll tell you i'll tell you when i had my house i've had it twice maybe three times maybe four times over 21 years it is two adults sitting across the table and i think i or i don't remember how i prefaced i don't like to think of the specifics, but we need to have a very direct, grown up, hard conversation that's going to be very emotional. And I just want us both to prep for it. And it goes something like,

this marriage as it currently is cannot continue. I do not feel in my body that you want to be married to me anymore. If you do, I've got some real challenges because I'm not feeling it, I'm not accepting it, and I'm not being a good partner to you. We got to do something completely new. Are you in? And every time, the other person has said, absolutely all in. But somebody has to sit at a grownup table.

And even if you have to call out, every time we have a hard conversation, you don't talk to me for six days, you shut down. You say, oh, what about me? We're not doing any of that today. This is two grownups having a grownup conversation. Are we going to stay married? And here's what you have to have already prepared i need moving forward not you haven't done this and you haven't done that

that's not i cannot work that way because if you come at him that way he has to defend himself and his defense strategy is to shut down and become a joy vacuum in his own house. Right? And so the only way forward is for you to say, I need physical and sexual intimacy in my home. I need to be able to have conversations. Good, bad, scary, vulnerable,

hilarious, silly. I got to be able to share my life with my partner. And whatever the things you need, I don't, and I don't know what that is. I don't know what that is for you, but you're going to have to be able to say those things out loud.

And this is hard, but I think you'd be very clear. If you get up and walk away from the table, I will understand that you want this marriage to be over. If you don't talk to me for five days after this discussion, I understand you are not interested in changing the way this relationship works. If you're going to sit at this table

and we're going to figure this thing out, then I recognize that you're all in. Going backwards over the last 12 years, my gut tells me if I was talking to him, there'd be enough blame to go around. Maybe not. Maybe you're protecting him and whatever. Maybe he's got some major psychological challenges that you have just had to dance around for 12 years, maybe. But going back and blaming is not going to help anybody. There's going to be an important forensic accounting of the last 12 years. Hey, this is how you've dealt with conflict.

I can't have that moving forward. You got to be present with me. Give me some tools so I can, when I ever need to bring something up to you, it doesn't shut you down. Because just shutting down doesn't solve our problem. We're going to have to put sex on a calendar. We're going to have to put weekly meetings on a calendar. We're going to have to put sex on a calendar. We're going to have to put weekly meetings on a calendar. We're going to have to have a budget together.

We're going to have to have parenting conversations. We're going to have to be married. I'm sorry, Jen. I wish I had more for you. I wish I could just pass this one and be like, ah, here it is. This one's tough. This one's tough. This one's tough.

Somebody's got to flip the lights on. Someone's got to turn the music off and stop the dance and just say, hey, this is the state of our marriage. We're choosing reality. It's the state of our marriage. I'm going forward no more.

We got to be different starting now. Are you in? Let me know how it goes, Jen. We'll be thinking about you. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families.

We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life.

Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney.

All right, let's go up to Vancouver and talk to Amanda. What's up, Amanda? Nothing much. How are you? Good. What are you doing? Nothing. Awesome. Is this super weird? You're just having a regular day and then all of a sudden, ah! Yeah, pretty much.

It's incredibly awkward. I've been told I'm awkward my whole life, so it's all good. Good to meet you. What's up? Um, basically I guess sort of my question is, um, every holiday, my mother literally, and my grandmother will literally cry and, um, for literally hours, uh, every time I tell them that I won't be attending the family events, including my father's side. I'm half Latin, so that's kind of really offensive to them. Did you say you're half Latin?

Yes. Okay, gotcha. Very cultural. I've heard other Latin callers calling over the show, and it's very cultural. Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time, it's just too much. Yes. Okay, gotcha. Very cultural. I'm always calling over the show, and it's very cultural. Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time, it's just too much. Yes. And I can't handle going to some of the events most of the time anymore.

So I just have a hard time every single holiday or birthday or whatever else they think is important, basically. Why... Yeah, I'll just kind of cut to the chase is that okay because I totally get this I'll try to too but it's very hard no I got it do

why do you subject yourself to hours of their tears and wailing and gnashing of teeth I guess I just think that, like, I wish I could go, I guess, in a way. And I feel like I kind of buy into their guilt over it, but at the same time, I guess I wish what happened didn't happen.

And I wish I could go. I want to offer an alternative explanation. Okay. I think you subject yourself to punishment because you feel like you should go and this is what you get for not going. Okay. I think you subject yourself to punishment because you feel like you should go and this is what you get for not going.

Okay. And I don't, I want you to know you're off the hook for that. What happened in your family that makes attending a no-go? That's it. What's hard is

it's not about all my random relatives. It's really between me and one of my siblings, my only sibling. Yeah, basically when I was very young, her and her husband told me that they didn't want me around because I was kind of like taking up too much of their spotlight on both sides of the family. What?

This is something I still deal with today. It's been 13 years and I still, I'm still very old to still be dealing with that. Well, no, that hurts. I mean, it's clearly insane and ludicrous. My question to you is, what about you is so small that you let them continue to run your life?

I don't know. Like, why wouldn't you go and let your Amanda light shine all over the family? And if they want to opt out, they're welcome to. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I wish I would have done different things when I was way younger when it happened. Yeah, but we're here now. So why not now? Exactly.

Yeah. I think just everything that they hear that i do they go and do and it just kind of like puts more of a what something there for me like i don't understand give me an example okay i'll give you an example so one day like i decided to go on a hike on a specific mountain um it's vancouver area so and then like the next month they went and did the same hike. One time I had a boyfriend and people really liked him. And then basically, I got cheated on with my sibling, with that person.

Your sister went and hooked up with him? She ended up buying a farm. And then they bought a bigger farm. And she bought a bigger farm. That kind of thing. So it's just very awkward. You should get a huge fake face tattoo. That would be amazing.

If you got like a huge rose on your cheek and been like, what's up? And just see if they actually get to do it for real. That'd be amazing. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Or you should just rent like a, you should rent a Ferrari and be like,

look at my new ride. Yeah. To see how far they'll take it. Here's the thing. And I say this with all due respect. Who cares what they do? Okay. Now, I'm asking you that.

I'm not just saying putting it out into the world. Because when you take them off the table You're doing amazing things You bought a farm You got a boyfriend Your sister sucks for cheating on him Cheating with him on you Or whatever, however you want to say that But like

You're going out and doing life And maybe you're doing it so well You're the ultimate family influencer. And they're like, yeah, that would be amazing too. Or maybe you just have a sister with a significant psychiatric challenge. And it's just, she's going to keep doing what she does. That's her life. Okay.

Okay. Is that fair? That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Taking notes. So hopefully that helps That makes sense, yeah. Yeah, taking notes. Hopefully that helps. But I mean, here's the thing. If your mom, and your mom has a picture where all of her daughters all get together perfectly

and everybody does everything perfect and everything looks perfect and everything's perfect, right? Yes. Yes. And so anytime there's a fight in the family it's always oh my gosh what about me and then mom cries and then you're supposed to all make it better your sister's not going to make it better because she's freaking amazing

so it's your job to make it better and you just said forget all this right pretty much there's a third option which is I love my mom I love my family. I like the big, messy Latin holiday parties. I've been to a few.

I grew up in Texas. They're my favorite on the planet. They're amazing, and you know they are. They're incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not going to let a grumpy, neurotic sister over in the corner keep me from here. Okay.

She can go by when she wants to buy. She can whisper in my ear. You're taking my spotlight. All right, dude. I'm going to continue to laugh and dance and eat and have fun and love my mom. And is my mom a little bit... Yes, she is.

Okay. Does my mom cry a lot? Yes, she does. She's my mom. But if you look around, I can hear it in your story. So many things about your life brought you joy. One person squashed a little bit of it and cast a shadow over everything you love and care about. Okay.

Is that fair? Tell me I'm wrong. I might be completely wrong. Yeah, that's close enough to it. Yeah. I always try to do something or try to get over something. And yeah, this feels like this is like an overarching storyline that I'm kind of tired of. Um, your sister's not going to change, is she? No, no. Yeah. Your mom's not gonna change is she no no not at all okay

so my question for you is long term what's gonna bring you the most peace and the most joy is it staying at home and saying mom it's not my job to make you happy it's not my job to make you fulfilled

and you have this fantasy of all of your daughters getting together my sister is a train wreck and I'm not doing it anymore. You've picked her over me. Fine. I'm just going to stay at home and have peace in my home here in Vancouver. Or is it kids, hop in the wagon. We're going to the grandma's house for the holidays

and it is going to be unhinged and we're going to sing, we're going to dance, we're going to play, we're going to have fun. And Tia Loca over here in the corner is just going to do her thing. Uh-huh. Right? Yeah. Okay. But you get to pick.

Here's what I'm trying to get you to see. You're in the driver's seat of your own life. Okay. And you don't have a path forward that doesn't come with some sort of relational discomfort. Okay. There's not an easy path out. Is that fair?

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm writing that down. Okay. And so just because it hurts doesn't mean it's not right. And it might hurt when your older sister

or younger sister like tries to photocopy your life or is always one upping you. Yeah, it's a lot. So I just don't know how to even do boundaries really. But I guess those are two good options. And probably reality will probably be somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure. Well, it's going to be uncomfortable and you're going to feel some guilt over the last 13 years.

You're going to have to let that go. Okay. Because that's not going to solve you right now. Okay. You're going to have to say, hey, I've made some choices over the last 13 years that have brought me here, kept me safe, kept me sane, helped me raise my family. Here we are. Great. I'm making different choices. Life's too short. I'm going to go be with my family over the holidays and I've got one sister who's just going to do what her sister is going to do.

I'll minimize my contact there. I will minimize my kids' contact there, but we're family and we're just going to show up. I'm a little bit... I'm the guy that I picked my sister up... You're professional. That makes sense. I know. I know. I know. I picked my sister up You're professional, that makes sense I know, I know, I know

But listen, I picked my sister up At the airport this year For the holidays with a huge sign It said Thank God My sister's finally gonorrhea free And my little daughter had a sign That said welcome home from jail

And It was hilarious. And then my sister called one of my favorite drummers in all of my life from the band Poison, one of my 80s metal band, and did a cameo. And he called me, sent me a message that said, congratulations on kicking that chlamydia. I mean, that's my brother. That's our sister back and forth. That's us. Okay.

It's unhinged. It's weird sister back and forth. That's us. Okay. It's unhinged. It's weird. It's silly. It's funny. It's just how we interact and also love her to death. And I know she loves me too. Okay. But it comes with some ups and some downs and some sideways.

That's just the nature of it. Okay. But here's what I'm telling you. I want you to feel fully empowered to reverse engineer your life. I want my holidays to feel full of laughter and warmth and family. What has to be true for those things to happen? Sometimes for those things to be true, we can't go visit extended family. It's too violent.

It's too volatile. We have people there that make it uncomfortable because they're ugly or they're rude. Sometimes it's, we're going to go do those things and I'm going to set some really firm boundaries about when we go to bed, what kids are going to watch or not eat, or if anyone tells these jokes, we're out.

Or sometimes it's really clear boundaries with inside my family. Hey, sister so-and-so, aunt so-and-so, she says things that aren't true. She whispers mean things. We're just going to smile and we're going to ignore. We're going to move on because the end result is warmth

and connectivity and family. So get with your husband, and you all sit down and ask this question. What do we want the holidays to feel like? My guess is, based on this call, it's going to include your mom, and maybe even your grandma. And that means it's also probably going to include sister,

so what do we got to do? Or if once and for all, I'm not doing it. No more with sister. Okay, it's going to come at the cost, and then then i'm gonna stop listening to my mom crying for two hours I'm gonna tell my mom i'm gonna hang up the phone I'm gonna send an email note to everybody. My mom calls sobbing. I will tell her I love her mom I can't be in the presence of my older sister and I know that hurts But i've got to take care of me and my family. I will call you back

And if mom's gonna sit there and blame and yell and cry, then I'm going to say, mom, I'm hanging up now. I'm going to let you go. And then we'll reconvene. You get back in the driver's seat of your own life. And don't let one naysayer, one dark soul cast a shadow over your whole life. You've got too much to live. Life's too fun.

There's too much adventure out there. You let one weirdo take it all from you. Thanks for the call, Amanda. Appreciate you coming in clutch. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get

rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, one of my favorite rock and roll metal bands of all time. Slaughter. And it's Mark Slaughter is a resident here in town. One of my favorite singers ever, ever, ever. And somebody who Kelly still may or may not have pictures of him on her screensaver and on her desk. Might.

Wearing a vest. And not a lot else. Kelly loves to Mark Slaughter. I do. One of the up all night, sleep all day, fly to the angels. My gosh. And probably one of the best voices ever,

ever in that, especially in that genre of music we listen to. And by far the best smile. Swoon. She's being so gross right now. Like her, like her whole body's lit up like a light bulb. It's given me the, but, and he's in town.

You can, Kelly can feel his presence when she's driving. I know. I've actually been to a couple of events that he's been at. And, um, one of the guys that works here, Greg James,

he's run into him a couple of times at like Lowe's. Yeah. So I've been hanging out at Lowe's, but it hadn't happened. Oh, geez. Oh, man. The song's called... Ironically, the song's called Desperately,

which is an ode to Kelly and her just need to see Mark Slaughter in person. You never say hi. What's on your mind? Oh, she does. Just tell me, honey. Lay it on the line. Anytime, night or day, just call me up and I'll be on my way.

The clock strikes midnight. I don't know where you are. The clock strikes. It's all right. Just tell me, honey. Don't push me too far. Desperately. I gotta know.

My name is Kelly. Mark, call me if you love me so. I added that last line. Kelly, I think you and I go get tattoos and you're gonna fit Slaughter in. It's gonna be amazing. Who says I don't already have it? I'll leave you with that.

Thought America. Love you guys. Bye.