The Dr. John Delony Show - I Think My Friend Is a Pedophile… What Should I Do?

Episode Date: February 21, 2022

Today’s episode is a heavy one. We start with a caller afraid his friend has pedophilic tendencies, then we talk with a woman who just bought a farm with her husband but feels like their marriage is suffering because he never stops working.  My friend might be a pedophile & I’m not sure what to do My husband works all day on our new farm & our family never sees him What is the deal with modern mattresses? Lyrics of the Day: "Feather On The Clyde" - Passenger Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Greensbury Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk about some heavy themes, so watch out for the little ears in the room. We talk to a young man who has a friend who appears to be a pedophile. He doesn't know what to do. We also talk to a woman who followed her dream and her husband, and they bought a farm, and now she's lonely.

Stay tuned. Say you, say me. Say it for always. I think it's Say It For Always. Is that how that song goes? I don't know how that song goes. This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so glad you're with us. That's how it goes. Say it for always.

We're laughing because you started another older show the exact same way. Did I really? The exact same way, yes. Sometimes these songs get stuck in my head on a loop, and I don't know where they're from. I don't even know how they go, but there you go. And I told you in the previous show that it was from a movie called White Nights. Oh, yeah.

It's all coming together now. We do too many shows. We should go to one a month. Or you have too narrow of taste. One or the other. I need to just listen to the song so I can cycle it out and get it out of my head. Hey, I'm so glad you're with us. On this show, we talk about mental health, relationships, and short-term memory dysfunction,

which I seem to be experiencing because a song popped in my head I thought for the first time in a while, and evidently not so. Say you. But we're so glad you're here. If you want to be on our show, give me a call 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And let's go right to the phones.

Let's go to Jim in Atlanta, Georgia. What's up, brother Jim? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good, man. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. You got, What's up, brother Jim? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good, man. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. You got, what's up? Hold on. You got it. Dude, I don't even know. I was feeling great today. I got all my breathing exercise. Like, I'm feeling great. I just, my words aren't working or my singing or my memory. Oh, I feel that. Other than those three things, I'm all cylinders. So what's up, man? So I've got a really good friend whom I've known for 13 years now, and we've served in ministry together.

I'm still in ministry. He works at a daycare now, and there's some indication that he might have, uh, pedophilic attractions. Um, and I just don't know how to handle that as his friend. Hmm. So I'll start first by saying thank you for this call. I appreciate that. And recognizing that something needs to happen. You don't know what to do. Yeah. And I'll follow it up with, what are you doing, man? What's the holdup? Like, what's the, I don't know, like, where are you getting stuck? It's, the way I see it is that there's a lot of yellow flags, but I haven't seen, like, a red flag yet.

And believe me, if I knew that there was, like, a surefire,, like something had happened, I'd be calling the cops, right? Oh, of course. There's no doubt about that. All right, good, good. So what makes you think, like give me some examples of, has he told you this stuff? Have you seen him looking at things on the internet that he showed? I mean, like how do you, what's causing you to think he might have some tendencies along these lines? Sure. About three years ago, we were having a really kind of vulnerable conversation about stuff and struggle and everything. And he mentioned that he had previously dealt with a pornography problem, which is awful, but it's not exactly rare, right?

It's something that a lot of us have gone through. It's the opposite of rare, yes. Right, yeah, very common. But when he started sharing some details, he said that the subject matter was beginning to scare him, and he used the words younger and younger to describe what was happening. Okay. Um, now that's not exactly a, you know, confession, but it was some, it was a, that's a yellow flag for me. And then ever since then, I've been noticing some things that with that filter, just don't sit right with me. And give me an example. example. So he works at this daycare.

He becomes really fixated on specific kids in his class, it seems. So much so that he will break the rules and he'll take pictures, appropriate pictures, but he'll take pictures of them and save them. Oh, hell no. Dude, Jim, we don't have any, these aren't yellow flags. Okay. Okay. Now, a buddy confessing to you three or four years ago that, man, I like looking at naked

people and the naked people I like looking at are getting, I'm trending towards a younger thing. That's a vulnerable moment that somebody being honest with you, that in and of itself doesn't indicate anything. Right. But as you said, now you've got that lens on, you're wearing a pair of glasses that he handed you, right? And now you are going to rightfully so view things, view his actions through that lens.

So let's have another one. Let's say he leans over to you one day and y'all are having vulnerable bro time. Do y'all drink IPAs? This just feels like an IPA conversation. No, he does. I do once in a while, but I'm more of a mixed drink kind of. All right. Thank you.

Thank you. Be a grown up. All right. So, so, let's say he's, y'all are having one of your IPA mixed drink evenings and he says, hey,

I really have this weird thing for wanting to hook up with other people's wives. And you were like, oh, that's strange. Explore.

And he's like, well, it's kind of a power thing. Like I want to be, I want them to, you know what I mean? Like he just goes down this weird fantasy he's got. I even call it weird. I just, he's like, well, it's kind of a power thing. Like, I want to be, I want them to, you know what I mean? Like, he just goes down this weird fantasy he's got. I even call it weird.

I just, he's got a fantasy. I'm not even going to judge it. It just is what it is. Then you show up next week, and he's sitting by your wife with his arm around her, and they're just laughing. You would immediately go, hey, homie, back that thing up. You know what I mean? And not in the way that song was originally written, right?

You would tell him, hey, like you and me are going to the parking lot, right? Or you're not going to fight him, but you'd get right in the middle of that. Yeah. And so you don't want your friend to be a pedophile. No. Your friend is taking pictures of children that he works with after telling you, I'm really finding myself increasingly turned on by kids. And I can think of no greater – I have deep compassion for somebody that finds himself in a situation where they find children attractive in a sexualized way. My heart breaks for them.

What a tortured life, right? Because there's so much joy with kids, so much wonder, so much love. I do have compassion for them. And I'll be damned if they're going to ever, ever hurt a kid on my watch. Absolutely. Right? And so you've got other examples. What's another example here that makes you uncomfortable? Yeah. So, um, he, he and I are in kind of like a friend

circle and his, uh, his siblings are a part of that as well. Um, and they have kids sometimes just the way that he interacts with one of their daughters just makes me feel just uneasy. Certain kind of lap sittings and hugs and kisses type thing. And I'm having a hard time discerning whether or not like,

am I feeling weird about this because of that filter? Or is this actually pretty normal? And there's all of that stuff that I'm just like, I I feeling weird about this because of that filter? Or is this actually pretty normal? And there's all of that stuff that I'm just like, I don't know. And then there's, uh, um, he, part of the story is that he confessed to someone else, some of this, it's all kind of vague. Um, and then he said that he underwent some counseling for it, but I think that ended up just being like a guy at church. Oh, God. Yeah.

And so my question, though, is like I think it's falling upon me to have this conversation with him, and I just don't know how to even approach it. All right. So there's a great—I saw it on the interwebs. It really brought joy to my heart. I think it on the, on the interwebs. It was, it really brought joy to my heart. I think we talked about on the show, Kelly, I think you don't want to send it to me, but it was a, a dad posted, he was walking out of a store and he was holding his daughter and like, I don't remember what it was like TJ Maxx or something. And she wanted to grab some of the stuff that he had said, keep your hands off of it. She throws a fit.

So he's carrying her out of the store by one leg or something over his shoulder. I mean, she's just having a wall-eyed temper tantrum and he's getting her out of the store and she's screaming and a man is walking into the store and stops him in the parking lot and says, honey, are you okay?

And she says, no, I'm not okay. And this man, my daddy's hurting me or whatever. And finally the dad explains it. The dad went on to post on the internets, thank you to this man for seeing something that he thought didn't sit right with him and calling it out. I'd rather err on the side of,

hey, young lady, is this man hurting you? Then not say anything, see something weird, right? So anytime it comes to kids, this is my personal rules, my wife's personal. Anytime I see something unsavory with kids, I'm going to err on the side of saying something every time, 100% of the time. And if you are the kind of person that you see me asking you a hard question or feel me or hear me asking you a hard question about your relationship with a child or children, and that doesn't raise your respect for me, but in fact, you're like, how dare you? Who do you mean, bro? Then, dude, I want nothing to do. I don't have time for you in my life. Okay, yeah.

So that's the lens with which I look in the world, okay? That's the way how I operate. Now, I'm not better than anybody else. I'm not like trying to lie. I just have a thing about people hurting kids. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So I would be, call your friend,

and y'all set up a time, just you two, no embarrassment, no anything. And I would be very, very direct. And I would also put a cap on it. And so here's what I mean by that. A few years ago, brother, you told me you were struggling with X, Y, and Z. It's also, I've heard through somebody that you confided in somebody else. You got counseling for this stuff. Fine. I'm super uncomfortable with the way you interact with your nieces and nephews, especially your nieces, the way they sit on your lap,

the way there's something that feels sexualized about that. Dude, what are you talking about? I would never stop. I'm talking and you can respond when I'm done. When I found out you were taking photos of kids in your daycare center, that's enough. It's over. You're going to resign from this position here and you and I are going to go sit, you're going to fess up and let me know where you are. And if there, you know what? I think you let them know. I am going to have to contact the authorities on this. I'm willing to lose

the friendship over protecting these kids. But I don't feel like they're safe. And I think you, my initial thought is since you're not looking at a smoking gun here, is to say, you resigned from this job today. But my fear is he goes, alright, you're right.

And then he's confirmed it. And then you need to get the police involved, right? Right, yeah. Or he's like, no way, dude, what are you talking about? And you're in the same boat. I think you let him know, hey, this is coming. I have reported this, and you're going to have to resign. And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but what I'm seeing with these kids, I just can't accept.

Yeah. Okay? And, man, he goes through an investigation. He's found there's nothing on his computers. There's nothing on his phones. There's nothing at home, nothing like that. Then he's vindicated, you're vindicated. And I think you'd be honest with him and say,

I understand that you might feel like this is a violation of our friendship. You might feel like X, Y, or Z, but I'm protecting these kids, and I'm protecting you. Right. And here's the thing. This is you handling a problem that you didn't start,

and so I don't want you to feel like, not if, but when this thing goes sideways, which it will, you know what I mean? And if you all have a friend group, then his brothers and sisters are going to be like, I can't believe you accused him. All that stuff. And let's be honest. If it's true, they know. Right. They know.

They've been uncomfortable or seen some things. You know what I mean? Absolutely. But it's just not worth the risk for those kids. And you had, dude, the smoking gun for me is taking pictures of kids at a daycare. Yeah. I worked with it. I was an elementary school teacher for you.

It never even crossed my mind to take a photo. Right. You know what daycare. Yeah. I worked with, I was an elementary school teacher for years. It never even crossed my mind to take a photo. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. I worked with high school kids and they would give me a picture, like their,

like their, you know, their, they get a packet of photos, you know, their yearbook pictures. They'd bring those to me and I was uncomfortable with that.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Those are high school kids. They were great. I mean, and I was like, ah, you know what I mean? And are high school kids. They were great. I mean, and I was like, ah, you know what I mean?

And so anybody taking photos of children, come on, man. I mean, you know what I mean? Hey, can you be honest with me for one second? Sure. There's a big one you haven't told me. What's the big one? Well, I think, so I have actually brought this up with his siblings. Yep.

And they kind of confirmed that they had the same thoughts without a smoking gun as well. Okay, dude, all of y'all are smelling smoke. The house is on fire. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Everybody smells. I just can't see the flames. I guess we're cool. Let's just keep watching TV. Dude, the house is on it. Everybody smells like, I just can't see the flames. I guess we're cool. Let's just keep watching TV. Dude, the house is on fire.

Everybody smells it. Yeah. Cool. And maybe if you've got a great relationship with them, tell them it's coming. Sure. Do they know about the photos at the daycare center and all that? They know about all of it. And they have tried to look into stuff themselves.

And it seems like they'd rather not deal with it, honestly. This is their kid i know and what it seems like to me though is that they because there's no slam dunk here they feel like well we're just either being paranoid and there's a in whatever struggle he is going through the phrase that they use that they found out that there's an action plan in place. And I'm like, I don't know what that means. That doesn't make me feel any better. Here's the action plan. I'm calling the cops. Yeah. And I'd call a detective, a non-emergency detective and say, I've got some pretty clear indicators. This is happening. Families confirmed it. Um, now I've heard that he's taking photos of kids or I've seen the photos of kids or he's told me about them. And I'm throwing a red flag on this one.

We need someone to go investigate this. Okay. Yeah. And I'd probably contact – I'd contact him and let him know he's got 10 hours to resign. He needs to resign today. Get out of there today. Quit. I don't care anything.

He's a quit today. And here's the thing. He may go take his life. That's another thing I'm really afraid of. He here's the thing. He may go take his life. That's another thing I'm really afraid of. He might. He might. I need you to hear me say,

that's not on you. Yeah. The fear, and then it's easier to say, right? It's easy to just throw that out there. And you're like,

okay, cool. Well, cool. I know it's harder than that. But you can't control what happens next. What you can't control what happens next. What you can control is right now, in the now. And that is I'm stepping up because no other adult

in this unbelievable situation. Like, I can feel my blood pressure going up right now. I even did my little fancy breathing techniques this morning before I got on the air and I'm still feeling a rise. Like, somebody's got to step in. Should be this kid's parents. I mean, the air and I'm still feeling a rise. Somebody's got to step in. Should be this kid's parents.

I mean, the kids, the parents of... Imagine just seeing... You have kids? I don't know. Okay, I've got a six-year-old little girl. Yeah. If I'm just imagining her sitting on some man's lap and getting that feeling like, nope.

Nope. You know what I mean? Yeah. Anyway, we could talk about this all day, man. I don't want to belabor the point. Today, today. And I don't know what you have on your docket today. It's canceled. Cancel it, man. Call them and say, dude, I cannot go another day. I'm stepping in the middle of this on behalf of these kids. And if I'm wrong, so be it. I'll find some other friends to have mixed drinks with. And that's one less IPA drinker you have to hang out with. How about that? That's the silver lining here, Jim.

Hopefully his brothers and sisters will stand up and say, thank God that we didn't have the courage to do it. Or what's going to happen is they're going to find his laptop and everybody's going to be vomiting. And rightfully so, because they should have stepped up a long time ago. Today's the day, my brother. Sorry, you're in the middle of this, but my brother. Sorry you're in the middle of this, but I'm grateful that you're in the middle of this

because somebody's got to do something about it and you're the guy. We'll be right back with the Dr. John Deloney Show. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a

tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new home buyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their Thank you. and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Diloni

and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back. My blood pressure is down a little bit more. Let's go to Mary in Seattle, home of Alice in Chains. What's up, Mary? Hey, how are you, Dr. John? I'm good. How are you?

Good. Now my blood pressure is up. Oh, you heard that last call? Yeah, slightly. So what's up? Yeah, so we just bought a farm. We who? And my husband is... Oh, you and your okay great yep and my husband is gone during most of the kids awake hours so my question is how do we survive this and find balance between family life church and the farm oh. So tell me about this transition to buy a farm. Why'd y'all guys buy

a farm? My husband has been a dairy farmer his entire life. He went to school to study agriculture and it's been his dream his entire life. And we finally were able to do that. And it's been a difficult transition. And I also struggle with being jealous of other families that are living normal lives because we work every day of the week. Yeah. Every single day. There's been a big push. There's been a big push across the country, you know, the last, like with HGTV and all these little, like, build your own, you know, secret home in the wilderness shows on YouTube and stuff that people have flocked out there. And I did the same thing.

I don't have a farm. I just got five or six acres. It's a lot of work. Like, it's, yeah. It is. The chickens got to be fed every day and they gotta be let out every day. And the dogs have to be this and whatever. Yeah.

So you got to fix the fence every week. And so it's a lot, it's a lot more work than people think. When you say you're jealous of normal people, do you wish you were living in the suburb in a, in a four, three, just doing the life?

No, I just like, I'll see somebody's husband sledding with their kids on a weekend. And I'm like, do you realize how lucky you are? Oh, man. Yeah. That's how I feel. I keep hearing that this is the life of a farmer's wife.

And do I suck it up, deal with it? Or do I be the change? Mary, you're drowning. My husband also has a very strong work ethic. That's cool. I think there are times where it is good, it's a blessing, but I believe there are times where he can come home, but he just doesn't know how to turn it off.

He's like, well, I also should do this and this and this and this. What is it about home that isn't a safe place for him? I don't think it's a— Let me ask that in a different way. Let me ask it in a different way. Not that you've made an unsafe house for him. That's not what I'm trying to imply. Sometimes, not sometimes, we naturally all lean towards the things that we feel that we are the best at. And if I know I can fix a tractor,

I'm going to sit out there and keep working on this tractor. And it's got to get fixed anyway, right? I don't have the money to pay somebody. So that's, but I know how this thing works. I'm gonna keep leaning into that. Is there a reality that he knows if he goes back inside, he doesn't really know how to deal with the five-year-old. And I don't know how old your kids are, but that there is a lack of efficacy there. And there's some shame. There is some, uh, like like i i should know how to do this because i'm a dad and so i'm just gonna wrap my dad up in making sure everything's taken care of at the farm and wife will take care of the kids you know i mean like there's this lack of efficacy there i think he definitely feels some guilt to an extent because he has mentioned that when he's coming home, he wonders if me and

the kids will still be there. Yeah. Not because I have made threats. I I've been trying really hard to be supportive of this endeavor, but I, I am the one that disciplines the kids and raises them. Right. We have a four and a half and a two year old. Oh man. Okay. And, and you're lonely. They're all over him. Yeah.

I mean, I, I have good friends that make an effort to come over and they're willing to the kids along with me, but it definitely, I'm a people person. I need people around me all the time. And so.

And a four and a half year old and a two year old and a couple of goats won't cut that, right? And can I. No, it's a lot of cows. A lot of cows. Can I poke one step further? Yep. Do you find yourself really annoyed with him and really annoyed with these kids,

and you just want to have people, and then you feel guilty that you feel annoyed? Yes, I feel very guilty. Yes, because you're supposed to be the farmer's wife. You're supposed to be the mom that just loves being with her kids. And sometimes you just want to leave them and go to a Starbucks in a city and hang out with your friends. I do. I sometimes want to just run away and come back later that day.

But I feel guilty getting a sitter and leaving. And I feel guilty when I am gone in the morning. If I go out to coffee with someone with the kids, I feel guilty when I don't bring food to the farm. And I, I try really hard to set the note on a positive note when he comes in, but there are definitely times when it, he comes in hours after he said he was, and I, I am kind of annoyed. You should be. You're right to be annoyed. So, how long ago did y'all buy this farm? Two months.

Okay, so this isn't a couple of years. You're 60 days in, right? Yeah. Okay. Which we also have had like every weather extreme you can think of. Right. You bought a farm in extreme you can think of. Right. You bought a farm in the middle of the winter. Right.

But he has been, he was managing a different farm. And I know what it's like being married to a farmer. I think I know what it's like by now. Well, tell me about your marriage before you bought this farm. Were things heading in this direction anyway? Not that your marriage is bad, but were they heading in this way anyway? No. The last two years were a bit of a struggle.

I lost my little brother. I'm sorry. I hit, that's a whole different thing, but I, I just think I hit my lowest point and he was unsure how to deal with that. Cause he's never, he's never dealt with anyone that struggled with mental health. There you go. It's not even mental health. That's grief. That's a deep, deep black hole. And I think, like, I don't think he ever even properly grieved the loss of him. It was, yeah, I don't know.

It was. So here's the thing that happens that's quite common, okay? So you have a deep loss, and the guy you've tethered your life to doesn't handle it in the right way. Let's just call it what it is. And part of you raises an eyebrow to that. He's not exactly what you needed him to be in that moment. And we don't have a playbook for that, right?

It's similar, not exactly, but it's similar to finding out somebody maybe wasn't cheating on you, but was having a texting thing with somebody at work, right? It's, oh, I didn't, I thought you'd be there and you weren't. Or I thought you were this and you were not. And we often don't have a playbook for that. And that one little splinter, whether it's a little splinter or a big one. And here's the thing, I've done this in my own house, by the way.

I didn't respond well to my wife's grief. And I tried to expert her. I tried to give her a bunch of lectures and a bunch of data points. And I blew it. And what I didn't realize was how deeply I hurt her and how deep the fracture in our relationship went. And the healing that had to happen there began with her bravery saying, I'm still not okay. And this happened a long time ago. I'm still not okay. And this happened a long time ago.

I'm still not okay. And I had to hear it and I had to take it because it was right. And that one act of bravery and vulnerability allowed me and her to then say, where are we now? And I had set up this future. I mean, this dream for us. Mine was to be a college president. It wasn't to own a farm. But being a college president requires you do this and you do that

and you run all hours of the night and you're a part of this committee and that committee and you're on this thing with the city and you're getting another degree. It's that same life. It's just with a suit on instead of with Dickies on, right? Y'all are in Seattle. Hopefully he wears Filson every day, right? Hope y'all are in Seattle. Hopefully he wears Filson every day, right? Like I got this. He's very filthy. No, Filson, like the. Oh, oh, no, no,

nope. Not there. Somewhere else, but. Okay. So anyway, he, ultimately it was, is this the life, this is the life we said we wanted. We're getting closer to it. Is this really who we want to be? And the answer ultimately was no. In that season, the answer was no. And so you're two months in. Did y'all take out a bunch of debt to buy this farm? Yep. Y'all in the hole?

Yeah. So you're scared financially. You're all alone. You got a guy that you have trust issues with, not because you think he's cheating on you. I don't want to make him sound like he's terrible. No, no, no. He's me. He's me.

And he was there for me when we were like, when we lost my brother. It was just the aftermath of me going back mentally to a place where he has never been part of my life. Right. Hear me say it, Mary. And he was very confused. Yeah. I'm not talking bad about him at all. Not even a little bit.

I'm him. Like we're the same guy. Okay. And I know my heart through the whole thing was good. I know what I was trying to do was good. I knew I was leaning into the things that I knew I could do well. And when I didn't know how to connect with my wife, because I felt the gap, I just didn't know what it was. I started leaning into the things that I was good at, which was work, which was helping other people with their problems in the middle of the night, which was running around with police officers and with marginalized population.

I mean, I started running around that way because I knew I could be successful there. And what happens is over time, that gulf gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So in no way am I saying he's a bad guy. In fact, I think the opposite. I think he's a great guy. I think you're great. And I think he's great. And I think you're both have pictures of what the other person should be doing, or you both have pictures of what you thought your life would be, and now here it is, and it's not what you want. And that's okay. The problem is most of us don't own where we're coming from. And if we don't own the reality of where we're sitting,

where we're coming from, what's happening right now in real time, we can't be about fixing it. And what you said haunts me. Is this just the way this is? Should I just suck this up? The number of wives I've talked to over the years who just said, well, he just was going to be a bank president. And so this was kind of my life. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to. I can't tell you how many men I've talked to said, well, I mean, I mean, I was just going to take the

next promotion, right? Why would I not take the promotion? And suddenly they find themselves in a job that they hate, at a place that they hate, making good money. And their life is miserable, right? So I want you to hear me say what you and your husband are experiencing is super common. The challenge is y'all went all in financially. You owe a lot of money on this thing. He's feeling a lot of pressure. You're feeling a lot of pressure. There's financial insecurity. There's financial insecurity. There's trust. And I don't say trust like he's going to cheat on you, but trust, or you're going to cheat on him,

but trust like you've got stuff going on. You got secrets that you're keeping from him about how hard this is. And he's got secrets he's keeping from you about how much he misses y'all. But he bought this farm. It was his dream. He's got to make this thing work.

And what I'm saying is y'all need to have a, where are we now? 60 day conversation. You've got to say, I'm not okay. And you got to give him permission to say, tell me that you're not okay. Because I bet he's, if he came and said, we just spent a million dollars on a farm. Is it more than that? Yeah. Yeah. We spent more than a million dollars on a farm. I don't think I love it. Or I can't do all this by myself.

Or I knew this was going to be hard, but I didn't realize I was going to miss my entire children's life. Those are some conversations he needs to be able to say out loud. And he probably doesn't have a map for how to do that, right? No. Right. So, no. So I want to continue being supportive, but I think I also need to put my foot down in some areas like him coming home for dinner. Yes, because he he will. I'll tell him that he'll come home for dinner two nights and then he calls me and says, I could drop everything and come now. And he always has to go back out in the evening. Or he says, I could come in and be done for the night at seven o'clock and I can help put the kids to bed. And I know he will not make it in at seven o'clock. Right. So what we're getting- But I don't want to be-

No, no, no, no. It's not about what you don't want to be. You're talking about integrity issues now. You're talking about you said, and I'm holding you to your word, integrity. Like we have two kids. You're a part of their lives. And so I think there's some boundary conversations that need to happen, which is you're a functioning part of this home. I need you here. I want you here. Not even I need you. I want you here. The kids want you here. And if we need to hire some help, then we'll hire some help, even though we can't afford it. If we, like, whatever the thing is, fine.

But this, I got to go back out till seven. Maybe in a season, right? So I'm about to launch a book. I'm about to enter a season that's going to be bonkers for the next three or four months. My wife and I sat down. We talked about it.

We game-planned it. We got our calendars out. I talked to my kids about it. And I'm making sure that I loop back around on some other time with my kids, right? Because they don't understand as much as they're like, yeah, cool, dad.

They don't get it. And that's not, they shouldn't. They're kids. But we were super intentional about what the next season is going to look like. And this thing ends with a pretty long vacation this summer. This ends with me and my wife going somewhere. This ends with the kids come on us with us on a thing. So like there's a, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. You don't have a light at the end of the tunnel. You just got darkness and light at the end of the tunnel. You just got darkness. And you're like, ah.

So if you look at it like I'm going to put my foot down, you're making your relationship me versus him. And you may have to get there with your boundaries. I'd much rather see you lean in at the beginning and say, hey, I'm struggling. I'm not okay. I know what being a farmer's wife is like. I didn't know I was going to be a single parent. I miss you. I really not okay. I know what being a farmer's wife is like. I didn't know I was going to be a single parent.

I miss you. I really miss you. The kids miss you. And I don't know what's going on at the farm, but we need to have better communication. If you say you're going to be in, I need you here for dinner every day. And when you get at dinner,

I need you to be done for the day and not work all through the night. And then you can get up and go again tomorrow. I mean, some of those conversations are great, but that's talking about I put my foot down. You have to—is different than I need you here. You know what I'm saying? And he may say, sorry, honey, I just can't do it. Well, that's when you say, okay, well, here's my boundary.

And then you're going to have to have your or what conversation with yourself, which is, or what? Am I going to leave? Am I going to take these kids and say, nope, we're going to be around people and other things. You don't want us in your life anyway, so we're going to go ahead and move on. Or are you going to say, no, I'm just going to suck it up and this is going to be the rest of my life? And my hope is y'all don't get there. I don't think he's that kind of guy. Do you?

No, he's not. I don't either. It sounds like he's a guy who doesn't know how to start this conversation and a gift would be for you to start it with him. Okay. Okay. And maybe you say, Hey, here, what's three things you love about our new farm? What are three things that are killing you about the new farm? And you go first. And that gives him a way to lean into it a little bit. You know what I mean? Yeah. Y'all sound completely disconnected.

Are y'all still holding hands and looking at each other and smiling? Or has it just all been work, work, work, work, work? When we see each other, we don't see each other that often. And I, I mean, we, if we do go out to date night or whatever, he is pretty tired. He's, he's pretty burnt out. So. Okay. So I think there's something about first fruits. Family, family gets, family gets the best of you. Work gets part two. And I know that's not a popular saying these days, but like, if all I give my family is whatever little bit I've got left after giving my all at work, then my family will never know me. My kids will never be tethered to anything firm. My wife will not know affection and care and love

and vice versa. It happens with the other way around too. So it's time for a hard conversation that I hope you can have in love. I hope you can have it with a spirit of we're in this together. And if you both say, let's sell the farm, we're gonna lose it all or whatever.

Let's sell the farm, sell the farm, fill the farm. Your marriage is more important than the farm. Your kids are more important than the farm. That's some dream. Sometimes that dream we've had for a long, long time turns out to be a nightmare. He's lucky to have you. He's lucky to have you. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. All right, we are back. All right, so here we go. I'm going to do something a little bit different, but not really.

So I talk about this with some regularity on this show. I got a group of experts all across the country. I think there's 20 now in the group that are mental health professionals. They're professors. They're researchers, they're researchers and scholars. They are practitioners who are in and grinding out therapy hour after hour after hour after hour. And they help me when Kelly gives me a heads up, says, hey, we're getting a call that's a diagnostic call about this or about something else. Or we're dealing with a young child with autism who's got trauma. And I've got a friend who's an expert in that. So

one of the cornerstones of this show is me saying, I don't have all the answers, but I know somebody who does. And I spend my life cultivating people who I love and respect and care for and who are so generous with their time and their wisdom and their expertise. Okay. So when it comes to mental health stuff, got it. When it comes to financial stuff, got it. When it comes to brakes and how a car works, got it. I've got people in my life that help me with this. And so one of the things that I always want to bring to the show

are things that are perplexing questions to me. And like, I don't fully understand this and I can Google it all day. And there's so much garbage out there. And y'all know that one of the sponsors to the show is a mattress company and the mattress, like it's incredible. It's awesome. And the reviews have come back and been real. Oh, that's great. But I kept being haunted by, I keep being haunted by this question, which is, feels like a couple of years ago, there was a billion mattresses just hit the market all of a sudden. Like when I grew up, there was just a mattress. And now you can have them shipped in a box with foam or springs. And now they got mattresses with like cell phones

built into them that track your sleep and you can sit at this height and if you start snoring or farting it will raise or lower you whatever's going on like these things are and so I just started like what's happening like we like 100 years ago we were sleeping on a corn cog like a bag full of corn cobs. And now we've got Tesla mattresses or whatever's going on, right? So I reached out to Bob Munkel. He is the vice president of retail engagement of Resident Home. He's the vice president of retail engagement over a big mattress conglomerate. And I just wanted to get some firsthand knowledge. The guy's been in the business for years and years, decades and decades and decades. And I just want to have an expert on here.

Explain to me, and hopefully you'll find this interesting as I do, what is happening with mattresses? What's the big deal about them? What is this all? And this sounds like a big, long paid ad. It's not. I'm getting no money for this talk, okay? I just got fed up with I don't understand what's going on. So, Bob, are you there?

I am here, John. How are you? Good. What's up, Brother B? So, listen, I think you heard my thing at the beginning here. I'm glad you're willing to take your time today and walk all of us through. Dude, what is happening with Mattress USA? It feels like it's bananas. Can you walk us through like a quick history of how we got from sleeping on a bag of

corn husks to where we are now? Like just the arc of mattress architecture, what's happened? So it is confusing, of course. And you're right. It all started with corn husks and so on. Oh, it really did? I was just kind of making that up. I felt like I got that from a Disney movie or something. That's fantastic. They used to take farm corn husks and various things off the farm and stuff bags as tightly as they could.

And then they used to sleep on that. And then over a hundred years ago, the inner spring more or less was introduced into the mattress industry. And that really revolutionized things. Now you have to manufacture these things. And then, you know, some years later, latex foam had come out, which was really a foam rubber, if you will. And then folks slept on that. And then all the polyols or the polyurethane foams came, and then memory foam was really introduced in the mattresses in the late 80s into the 90s. A very famous brand that made that extremely popular. And now you have gel

technologies, and you have, like I said, you know, you can now track your sleep. There are devices that can actually track light sleep, deep sleep, REM sleep, and then deliver a report to your Apple Watch or to your phone. And it really has come a long way. But the two big things that are related to this mattress in a box and this explosion of mattress ads on your screens is about, you know, over 20 years ago, roll-pack technology, these machines that could actually take a mattress, compress it, roll it, and bag it to put it in a box. That's been around over 20 years, but it wasn't popularized by brands ads that you see. What did happen is, you know, as the internet grew and it became in the hand of everyone, some very savvy marketers really after 2010 began to say, hey, we can manufacture a

mattress anywhere. We can put it in a box. We can ship it FedEx, UPS, DHL, and get it to the front door of anyone. So now let's make a mattress, let's market it, let's send digital ads to your screen. And now suddenly there's an explosion of companies that are really in the mattress business, utilizing the latest and greatest sciences. And what they're doing is they're roll packing mattresses, putting it in a box and getting it to your front door, really bypassing a lot of the retail stores. Some of the larger brands are now in retail stores. So you have the ability to go online, watch videos, read reviews, get acquainted with this brand, this mattress, its technology,

its benefits, but then go into a local retail store and try it before you buy it. So it's almost like the retail stores had a monopoly on this for so long. Then all of a sudden, I call them the internet kids. They may have been 80 years old. I don't know. Internet kids said, forget you guys, we're just going to sell it directly. And it's almost like the box stores then basically had to get on board and say, well, before you buy it, you can try it out. You know what I mean? Like it almost is a reversal now to where I, there was a wave like in 2010, I think that's about right. When people I knew the idea of buying a mattress on in, in the mail was preposterous. It was just lunacy. Who would do that? Why would you do that? And then there was a season from, yeah, about 2010 to 2018, 19, when everyone I knew just ordered them.

And then they started falling apart. They didn't last. So there became issues with it. And now I guess people are going back and trying them out. So help me with the sleep architecture here. And I know you're not like a PhD sleep scientist here, but walk me through the, what's the difference between like a firm mattress and I've got a family member that they've got a mattress. It's basically like sleeping on like a driveway. It's the least comfortable thing ever created by any human ever. But I got some

family members that think it's the greatest thing ever. And then my bed is basically like my preference is somewhere in the hammock region, right? Is there an up or down to mattress softness or firmness or does it matter? Is it just preference? Does one help you sleep better than the other? What's the deal with that? So the level of firmness in a mattress, it does not really determine how long a mattress will last or how supportive that mattress may be for your body. And comfort is comfort is truly personal preference.

Let me give you an example. Um, think of the comfort of a mattress as the surface of the mattress and think of the support of the mattress as below that the base of the mattress, because they're really two distinctly different things and they deliver different benefits. So let's give you an example. So you kneel down on a hard floor. That is noticeably firm. But what if you took a pillow and put it on the floor? Now you kneel down. Still firm, but a little less so. What if you took three pillows, put that down on the floor? Now it's considerably less firm, but yet you have not changed the firmness of the floor. So we as mattress manufacturers, we can design various different support systems that will provide the conformance and the positive resistance that your body needs to be properly aligned while you sleep so your muscles can relax and be restored. But then we can change the ingredients on top of those support systems

to make it feel softer for your personal preference or even firmer. So it's not the hardness in a mattress that will determine its support. It is the actual support system down below. But we can make that support system feel softer. We can make that support system down below, but we can make that support system feel softer. We can make that support system feel medium firm. We can make that support system feel very firm. So comfort is truly personal preference. I knew it. Okay, good. So I didn't know that about the softness and about the firmness, but the stability of it. But I have been told that I've got weird, I'm weird, and you just made me feel less weird. So thanks for that, Bob. How do you know? So, I mean, conventional wisdom would say that when this thing starts getting saggy or you can start seeing body imprints in or something,

it's dead and it's time to get a new one. That sounds like that may not be the case. How do you know when a mattress is done, when it's cooked? Okay, so that's a classic question. First off, the mattress does not have to be old in order for it to stop meeting your needs. So mattresses wear out more quickly. Sometimes our body changes, John, and our needs from the mattress- Are you talking about weight gain, Bob? I'm not. I'm not making any reference at all. All I'm suggesting is that sometimes our bodies change over time. And some of those changes could be even temporary, such as pregnancy, et cetera. But what happens is the demand that we make on that mattress may change over time. So the mattress does not have to be old in order to say, all right, it's time for a

new mattress. Sometimes it's no longer meeting your needs. So how do you know? Well, here are the key things. The key benefits that a mattress produce for the human body are comfort, then support, which is body alignment, and finally, sleep surface temperature. So all of these things can create problems in sleep that can rob us of the healthy sleep we need in order to be at our best, such as REM sleep, the dream stage, or even deep sleep that restores your human body. Disruptions in sleep will rob you of the REM sleep and deep sleep you need. So how would you know? Does it take you a long time to fall asleep? Are you tossing and turning? Is that waking you up? Is that disrupting your sleep? Are you waking up with any back pain, soreness, fatigue in the

morning and it fades after about an hour or so? Are you sleeping too hot or too cold? You're sticking the leg out, the leg comes back in, covers off, covers on. All these things are disruptions of sleep that will rob you of healthy sleep. And they're clear indications that it's time for a new mattress. That current mattress is no longer meeting your needs. So I sleep with a, especially in the summer months, I sleep with a temperature device. It's like a mattress topper that just cycles cold water through it. And I won't say their name here, but the – so temperature matters. All those things are important.

How do we know if it's just like not our room is too hot or like, man, I've put on 20 pounds. It's not really the mattress's fault as much as I need it. How do you know the balance between all those things you mentioned are good variables for a good night's sleep? I hesitate to blame it all on the mattress. How do I know when the mattress is helping cause those problems? Well, as it relates to comfort and support, it is the mattress. As it relates to temperature though, we, the sleeper, have substantial control over temperature. So I'll give you an example. If we're sleeping too hot or too cold,

let's assume you say you're sleeping too hot. What if we took the covers off and you no longer had covers, right? All you have is sleep clothing. Well, you may turn around and say, now I'm sleeping cold, but you haven't changed the mattress. So what happens is we as sleepers, the human body actually sleeps cold. Here's the shocker. Every human being sleeps cold because during deep sleep and REM sleep, our core body temperature goes down by as much as two degrees. That's just a human fact. So we all sleep cold. And what we do is we compensate, John, through sleep clothing. You may know them as jammies or whatever you want to call them, right? And then we have sheets and we

have blankets, we have quilts and comforters and all this stuff. And what we do is we get into bed, right? And initially look like we could be cold, right? And then we create this microclimate. We cocoon ourselves with these various coverings to trap our own body heat because we're the source of heat there. And then if that gets too much, we get too hot. So what happens is, you know, if you peel off covers, if you change your sleep clothing, if you change your blankets, your quilts or whatever, you can really micro adjust this micro climate that you've created for yourself and have an ideal sleep temperature. But it is true that some mattress materials have a tendency to reflect body heat back to you rather than whisk it away and manage it away from the body. Excellent. Yeah. That's

one of the things I've loved about the mattresses that we support here are, man, is that they sleep a little bit cooler than the other mattresses I've slept on, which is super cool. All right, hey, I got to run, Bob. Dude, thank you so much for calling in and giving up your morning here. I'm really grateful to get to talk to some sort of sleep expert to help me figure out how this stuff works, man.

So grateful. You gave us a couple of helpful tips on what is important about how sleep works. I mean, things that are important like temperature, comfort, stability, and when to know when a mattress is up. So thank you so much for your expertise there. Hey, everybody, we'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out

or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we are back. All right, as we wrap up today's show, Kelly, it's good to see you. Benjamin, James, Nate, doggy dog, doggy dog, doggy dog. It's good to see everybody. Chris, who is basically James' new boss, he sent in this song, and so we have to do it.

Here you go, Chris. I don't know, I've never even to do it. Here you go, Chris. I don't know. I've never even heard of this band. Well done, Chris. The band is Passenger, and the song is Feather on the Clyde. This already sounds creepy, but I'll continue. Well, there's a river that runs through Glasgow. Oh, great.

It's an Ireland song. Well, there's a river that runs through Glasgow, and it makes her, but it breaks her, and takes her in two parts. In a current just like my blood flows down from the hills round aching bones to my restless heart. Well, I would swim, but the river is so wide, and I'm scared I won't make it to the other side. Well, God knows I failed, but he knows I've tried. I

long for something that's safe and warm. Move to Tennessee, dude. But all I have is all that is gone. I'm as helpless and as hopeless as a feather on the Clyde. Chris, I think you should call into the show. I think we've got some help for you. And you too, America.

We'll see you soon on the Dr. John DeLong Show.