The Dr. John Delony Show - I Think My Husband May Be Bisexual

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman wondering if her husband is bisexual - A man spiraling after being fired twice in one year - A mom unsure of how to make friends as an adult To pre-order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Lyrics of the Day: "Evergreen" - Luca Fogale Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I think that really the heart of the issue and a lot of why we fight a lot is that I think he does struggle with his own sexuality. But I think he feels shame in talking about it. And my question is how do I become, how do I help him see that I'm a safe space to talk about that and that that doesn't change that I love him. What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. Show about your mental health, your emotional health, your relationships, whatever you got going on in your life. We are here to sit with you, walk with you through dark times to help you figure out what's next or through light times and figure out what's next.

So grateful that you are with us. We got some reports back on our last month's numbers. And again, the show continues to be on a rocket ship. And that is for one reason. It's not because of me. It's not because of the gang. It's because of you. And hear me say this from the bottom of my heart.

You guys make my kid's life possible. You guys give me such incredible feedback, both positive and negative things I need to change, things I need to get better at, and also stories of your own triumphs at home. And so for all of it, thank you for being with us. Thank you for giving us up your most precious resource,

which is your time. If you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask and fill out the little form. It goes to Jenna and she will gate keep you. All right, Jenna and Ben,

I need you guys to help me solve a crucial issue in my life. I'm on it. Kelly's gone. I don't trust her judgment on this anyway. So this is y'all too, and this is important. Ben, you and I recently dominated. Crushed it. In a pop punk post-emo resurgence show.

I don't know how to say this nicely, but we were incredible. Oh, yeah. Right? Oh, yeah. Clearly. As a part of that, I went and spent way too much money at Hot Topic

buying gear for this show. And one of the more humiliating moments of my life was the discussion. I may have talked about on the show the discussion I had with the lady when she told me my total was $100 or 98 bucks or something crazy. But show is over.

I have washed off the black nail polish. Boo, you should have kept it. I've taken off the eyeliner. I'm not wearing a mohawk. All the things. I'm back at my day job. But I'm loving my a mohawk. All the things. I'm back at my day job. But, I'm loving

my chain wallet that I got. I'm sorry. What? I had, like, so chain wallets were the thing back in the,

Yes, back in like the early 2000s. So, I got one for the show. It was super cheap. I got it. And I kind of like it. Why?

Because, I don't know, just makes you always know where your wallet is. And so... It's fair. The other day, I had it, and me and my manager were out at getting lunch, and he just looked at me as I pulled my wallet out to pay,

and he said, I've never been so embarrassed in my life as I am right now. And I realized, I'm too old for this, but I kind of love it. I'm totally okay with you bringing it back. I am 100% behind it. I'm kind of all back. Let's bring the chain wallet back.

But y'all three are younger and hipper than me, so I need to know. You're clearly not buying it. I just think it looks... Not incredible? That one. Maybe if it was like more subtle to start, like you need to work your way into it. That one just looks so chunky and fake.

I think a word no one has ever used to describe me is subtle. That word has never been like, John Deloney's subtle, but it does feel very Hot Topic-y. Listen, listen, if there are any listeners out there that have this themselves please please let me know because if we have more people who actually own them themselves then maybe it's a trend that can come back but if it's just you i don't know ben

would you buy one i wouldn't wear it in public but i don't know what's in your bedroom you bought it because it seems like it's on brand for you. Fair. It would have been way cooler if you were like, dude, I need a chain wallet. I was going to get John Deloney chain wallets made for the whole team, but clearly that's a mistake so I won't do that. Well, the sad thing is that

you spent $100 at Hot Topic and we didn't even win. You got second. I know. So close. We should have got really tight ringers. Next year, you need to spend $200 at Hot Topic. Maybe that'll get you over the edge. Nope. Got a whole new plan for next year. Sign up for the rewards. Alright, let's run out to the 512 in Austin,

Texas and talk to Allie. What's up, Allie? Hey, it's awesome to talk to you. I have binged all of your shows and I'm totally loving it. I'm totally nervous about the topic, but I'm not nervous about talking to you.

So, I feel like you're an older brother at this point. That is the nicest thing. The topic is pretty heavy. That's the nicest thing somebody has said to me in a long time.

Especially because my show team thinks that wearing chain wallets is stupid and I disagree. So,

thank you. Well, I'm going to vote with them on this one, but everything else, you're like the cool big brother. You're from Austin, which is basically Portland of the South. I know. I'm supposed to be okay with it.

I thought we were in on this together, but fair enough. All right. So what's up, Allie? Let's do it. Okay. So I wrote out my little preface and question, and then I'm just going to really live organically in this conversation because I'm super nervous about the topic, I said cool let's do it um I have a tendency to ignore red flags and focus on people's potential um so I have committed to following your advice

whatever you tell me on the show like you could tell me to do the chicken dance on the top of my car at ATP and I'm gonna do it okay you need to know 100 that's going to be in the things I tell you okay well I'm going to start practicing. All right. Do me a favor before you do the question. Will you do me a huge favor? I want you to take as deep a breath as humanly possible. Take it and hold it, okay?

Ready? One, two, take it. Hold it. One, two, and then let it out. All right, here's my promise with you, okay? I am hearing you that you're nervous to talk about what you're about to talk about. And here's my promise. My promise is whatever you say, I'm going to be with you, okay?

Okay. That's 100% my promise. It's heavy. No weird, no judgment. I got it. I got it. And I know that it's heavy, but I want you to know that you're not going to endure this heaviness by yourself. Cool?

Okay. Yes. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. So go for it. I'm here. Okay.

So the heart of my question is, how do I help my husband to feel less shame about his sexuality. And I say that because for years, my closest friends have all asked me, like, hey, is he bisexual? Is he questioning things? And I never really gave it much thought. But we've been married for seven years now. And over the last few years, it's just kind of like reared its head a little bit more

and come to maybe be like, it could be a real issue, um, without getting too graphic. Like he has fetishes that I'm uncomfortable with things that he enjoys and wants to do that. I don't.

Um, and when we fight or we're emotionally distant, which does happen a lot, he buys toys to satisfy his own needs needs and then he hides it from me. And when I inevitably find out, he has a lot of shame and embarrassment and he ends up turning that around onto me and getting mad at me and saying it's my fault that he does it or that he has to hide it or that I caused it in the first place. We were fighting and he had to do it. And I think that really the heart of the issue and a lot of why we fight a lot is that I caused it in the first place. We were fighting and he had to do it. And I think that really the heart of the issue

and a lot of why we fight a lot is that I think he does struggle with his own sexuality, but I think he feels shame in talking about it. And my question is, how do I become, how do I help him see that I'm a safe space to talk about that? And that that doesn't change that I love him. Sure.

Well, thank you for, I mean, you laid that out really beautifully. So thank you for that. Can I ask some probing questions? Absolutely. Okay. Question number one is besides particular sex acts that he enjoys that you're not into. And besides his going to get sex toys and to assumedly masturbate himself, right? Take care of himself in any number of ways.

That's a very limited scope for why you would think, I think my husband's gay. I think my husband's bisexual. Or I think my husband's not attracted to me. Whatever is there, that sense of shame. Paint me a fuller picture here. He does have a really deep appreciation of the human body, I guess you could say, all human bodies. And he comments in a different way than I hear most men comment when he sees a guy who's really ripped or, you know, he'll point out attractive men probably more often than attractive women.

He like makes like certain friends on social media that he just really keeps track of that are also like, or they are gay and he seems to be drawn to them and really seek their, like when they tell him he's attractive, that's like a really big sense of pride for him. And like, he goes kind of looking for that from that population, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm just seeking affirmation. Absolutely. So, and by the way, everybody listening to the show seeks affirmation from somewhere or from multiple places, right?

Yeah. So there's two, there's, there's, there's two directional challenges here. Directional challenge number one is you have, I'm assuming tell me if I'm wrong, you have shame that somehow you're an unsafe place for the man that you love to land. True or false? True. How long has that been going on? And basically the bigger question is how long has he been keeping secrets from you that you are unknowing? He doesn't know this, but you're carrying the weight of those secrets too. How long has that been happening? Your whole marriage? Forever?

Yeah, pretty much. And like I said, I'm really good at ignoring red flags and seeing potential. So in the beginning when it would happen, I was just like, well, he just needs to know that I love and support him and I just need to love him through this

and then he'll open up and trust me with the truth. And then it was just like, he kept lying about things and it's not just sex things that he would lie about there's other things that he like parts of his identity he tries to keep hidden from me and so my I've always really from the beginning just been like well if I just keep trying then he'll be open with me and that hasn't worked out great so one of the things that gets lost in the

gender conversation by the way I've had this conversation this conversation, I can't even count. So I want you to know you're not alone, okay? That gets lost in the gender conversation is it's a very delicate thing because there's a ton of shame and there's also a ton of, if the wrong person finds out you are kicked out of your home, you're kicked out of your religious group,

you're kicked out of your school. I mean, like there's a true penalty to be paid, right? And often kids that recognize they are different, especially when it comes to who they're attracted to when they're young, they learn really quick to shut up about that. And they wrestle with that. And they have been mining themselves

and their community and what's okay and who loves me and who's safe for years right and so um it's easy for you to go i all of this rests on me and i'm also going to challenge the other side of the equation he got married to you he looked you in the eye and said, you and I are ride or die till the end of time. And then maybe even beyond that, if you believe in the right romance novel, right? Like we're in this thing. And so there is a price to be paid on both sides. One, you better not say anything. And I attached myself to somebody that I said I was going to be connected to intimately, not just sexually, but spiritually, right?

They're going to know me. I'm going to know them because we're one forever. And so you carry the burden too. And we have been separated. We actually just got back together. And a big part of it was because of the hiding and the lies. And, but my bigger problem with the hiding and lies is that he makes it sound like

it's my fault. He turns it around and blames me. So then I feel like I'm going crazy. I question reality. Like, yes, it's gaslighting. It doesn't really happen.

It's gaslighting. Yeah, it is. And, and he, he learned that from his mom who's, you know, the shame and whatever,

but I think he wants to be better, but he doesn't know how. And we've tried therapy in the past. I think even in therapy, it's like so much shame that he can't be his true self and really be vulnerable with a counselor. So why'd you go back? Why'd you go back? Because let's put sexuality and gender aside. You're married to someone who lies to you, to your face, and has for years. And my guess is, is there infidelity involved that you know of?

No. Are you positive? Not specific that I, no, I'm not. And I will be honest and say that I have occasionally gone and gotten myself tested. Okay. Just out of fear. So that tells me you're being very, kind of commos coy on the call.

There's something in your gut that says, whoa, is there pornography involved? Oh, tons. Okay. And in the beginning, like our sex life was so crazy, and I just thought it was great that this guy was super into me

and found me so attractive, but we were having sex four and five times a day, every day for years. And then when it started to dwindle off, I thought something was wrong with me, but that's when like the porn started getting to be a really big issue. And he was more interested in that than in having sex with me. And so, you know, the toys and it just snowballed. So I, I'll say that I went back to him because I do love him and I didn't see the potential in him. I see what his mom broke in him. But you can't fix that?

Oh my goodness. I'm getting emotional. No, no, no. Of course you are. You love this man. And you're hurting. Yeah. But you can't fix what mom broke.

Right. You can hold his hand and walk away. I want to be safe landing place, and I don't know how to do that. I know, but he hasn't chosen you as that place. And that's one of the hardest things I can say out loud to somebody in your situation. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. He hasn't chosen you. Okay, you're right. And you've spent the last X number of years sacrificing your own intimate connection, sacrificing your own romantic relationship with him, sacrificing your marriage, and then deeper than that, your own value.

Yeah. Yeah. Because you were once... And I see that. I feel like I'm withering away. I feel is the, man, I don't want to cause a bunch of drama on this show, but this is where the gender conversation, I mean, not the gender, but the pornography and the potential infidelity all gets wrapped up with in this other conversation. It's not. I think I excuse the dishonesty as I just feel bad for his shame. And I want to believe he hasn't cheated on me.

I want to believe all of these things. But you don't. But you don't. But you don't. When I catch him, when I catch, like, he bought a toy, and I find out there's so much embarrassment. He can't, like, we can't have a conversation. We can talk about so many things in our sex life, and we have conversation.

But about that, he shuts down, and he won't talk to me. And he's just like, oh, it's fine. I just fell off the wagon. It is what it is. I'm going to get back on the wagon it is what it is i'm gonna get back on the wagon and i won't do it again but in a safe relationship there's not a wagon to get on and off of there's a conversation to be had right and i i i'm gonna go as far to say if people have are into weird things are into weird things and you you talk about that with your spouse right

you talk about that with your partner you right? You talk about that with your partner. You have that conversation. But he hasn't chosen you. And at some point, you said you feel like you're withering away. I'm hearing it on this call. You're like one of those movies where there's a ghost that comes back and then the time starts running out and they start getting thinner and thinner.

That's what's happening to you. And at least right now, it's not because he might be gay or might not be gay or might be experimenting or might be bisexual. That's not it. It's that you are married to someone who's lying to you. You're married to someone who is more into pornography than he is to you,

who is not reciprocating how much of themselves they're putting on the table for the sake of this marriage. Absolutely. And my closest friends have said that this is not an equal effort marriage. Not even close. And let's say, in the same way that you saw potential in him, he saw potential in you. Maybe she's going to be the one that helps me

because I don't want that. Whatever the conversation he's had in his soul for however many years. And maybe his mom beat him up so bad emotionally, right? All those things can be true. And what he is carrying is so heavy that at this point he has chosen to not set it down because he doesn't know how Yeah, fine he can do that and you don't have to be a part of that

Both of those things are true. His pain is very real What he's working through alone If he was here, I would want to hug him and not let go Yeah, and through alone, if he was here, I would want to hug him and not let go. And I would have to be willing to hit for him to say, I don't want to hug you. I don't know you. And I know that he loves me. I know that he chose to marry me because he loves me. I know that it's not like he's only into men and he's not interested in me. I know that he loves me, that he thinks I'm attractive, but I just think there's such a broken side of him that, yeah, you're right.

I'm just not the one that he wants to share it with. And the choosing reality is how you're going to live out of that truth. Which is what? Do I just keep being numb like I have? No. Because the other end of that is you die. Spiritually, emotionally, relationally, and then eventually you die, die. Yeah, and I'm definitely not being the best mom that I can to my kids.

How many kids do you have? Do you have kids together? We don't have kids together, no. How many kids do you have? Do you have kids together? We don't have kids together, no. How many kids do you have? I have four. Are they a ringside seat to all this? Yeah. Some of my kids are grown and out of the house

now, but I had kids when I was really young. They saw it and they're very protective of mom and they have been saying for a long time that this isn't a healthy situation, but I guess I just wanted to make it happen. Is there some commitment you made to yourself that what happened in your first relationship was never going to happen again? Yeah, I promised myself that I would never not be someone's priority and that I would never get divorced again.

And so I don't know what to do when the two things don't work together. Yeah, you made yourself a promise that, yeah, way to go. I painted myself into a corner. Yeah, you really did. And that's a hard corner to paint yourself into because you painted you into it, not somebody else, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I want to have all these standards for myself and these boundaries, and I want to be like, my partner is going to respect me and appreciate me and value me and make me their equal, and we're going to be true partners.

But then I just allow little behaviors to undermine that. Allie, these are not little behaviors. Yeah. These are massive fractures in a trusting, loving relationship. Period. That's true, but it starts small. It does.

And then, yeah, it does. But these are massive. Yeah, you're right. These are massive. And this is in a heteronormative relationship. This is a gay relationship. This is in all relationships. You got to tell the truth.

You got to be a person of fidelity. You can't hold these black hole secrets from somebody because when you say I do, they take on those secrets with you. Yeah. They just do. Yeah, and I'm to the point where he had an incident one time and he had to have something removed from his body and i took the blame for it i i showed up at the hospital and i said it was me i did it and took that shame from him because i hold that black hole

but i don't think he does the same for me i know he doesn't because you wouldn't be on this call and so one of the you made yourselves a the, you made yourself a bunch of promises that relied on somebody else's fidelity. And I'm of the opinion, like in faith circles, they talk a lot about like, you know, infidelity is about who you sleep with. So sleeping with somebody that you're not married to. I think you can cheat on somebody on a,

you know, with your work. You can cheat on somebody with your golf course. You can cheat on somebody by withholding. You can neglect, right? You can cheat on somebody by vacuuming up all of your internal turmoil. And then when somebody says,

Hey, are you okay? You just blast them with it. Or the analogy I use is you carry bricks around in your internal turmoil. And then when somebody says, hey, are you okay? You just blast them with it. Or the analogy I use is you carry bricks around in your own backpack. And the moment somebody says, whoa, whoa, whoa, you smash them with your bricks, your pain. Oh, and I've done that. I have definitely done that to him.

No, no, no, he said that to you. Taking the cardboard bricks out. He said that to you. Yeah. Every time you say, hey, what is this? Bam. Yeah. So I think your path forward is, is, is, is pretty straightforward. Pretty simple. Step number one is you make a decision on what love and respect you're going to accept or not accept. Number two, y'all had a trial separation. You moved back in. You wouldn't be calling me if that move back in

was just smooth as silk. It hasn't been, has it? No. Not at all. And so I think it's time for a very direct, hard conversation, which is the following. You might want to write him a letter because it doesn't sound like he can hear it.

It sounds like he goes to war with you when you bring something up. Or you might want to write a letter and read it to him. But you have to have a state of the union conversation, which is, I committed to you and I said, I do, I'm all in. But part of that commitment, part of that fidelity meant no lies, no deception, no bringing other people into our bed, whether on TV or whether in person.

That these big mega secrets that are dragging the entire home down, that I promised I would share with you, I have to at least know what we're fighting together. And if you don't trust me enough to be a safe place, then you are choosing with that lack of trust to say, you're not my person. And you are opting out of this unity, this one. And I think you started the call with saying, I will love him till the end of time.

I'm with him. He's just not with you. And I think the ball is in his court as to whether he says, okay, I'm all in. I will tell you the truth. I'll tell you what I struggle with. I'll tell you where my shame lies. And that will be something y'all work through together moving forward.

I said this earlier, you can't fix what his mama did. And you can't co-carry his shame if he won't let you. And you can't love him through the hurt he's experiencing, which I know he is because he won't let you know what the secrets are. And I know that feels so, so, so lonely, Allie. I'm sorry. He's really lucky to have you in his life. And my hope is that he takes this moment when you say,

hey, this is my line. This is my line. This is my line. But I want you to, when you state your boundaries, I want you to be very clear about this. If he walks away from your boundary, he walks away. You didn't fail your marriage. You didn't crash your marriage. You didn't choose to fill in the blank again.

He looked at you and said, yeah, I can't go there. I can only go this far in my trust. I can only go this far in go there. I can only go this far in my trust. I can only go this far in my love. I can only go this far in my commitment, but there's a line there. And you're not it. I can't cross it for you. And then you'll have to live in that reality. Here's my promise, Allie.

I'll walk with you every step of the way. Man, I'm sorry. It's heavy. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck

hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call

my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Denver and talk to Raymond. Hey, Raymond, what's up? Hey, Dr. John, how's it going?

I'm good, man. What are you up to? Not so much, just waiting for this call. Very cool. What's up? talking to help um i'm calling because i've just been i think struggling generally but uh i think that the main area that i've been kind of focused on at the moment is like work um i kind of was like just you know let go from

the second opportunity in about a year and I'm like kind of really trying to reevaluate what am I doing what am I supposed to be doing what happened so you got fired for the second time in a year what happened it's I think like the two main things there are I've been kind of just like working through ADHD unmedicated and so I think a lot of the

feedback that I've received from both those jobs where kind of attention to detail, doing things in a timely manner, staying on top of tasks and finishing things that I'm supposed to be doing, and not having that done. I think the other piece is I relocated to Denver from the East coast. And so definitely a lot of feelings of like loneliness as well. And so I think like, um, and I know that like a big part of, uh,

my work history these last couple of years has been remote. And so I don't think that's like helped me much. Yeah. Um, being remote um and being away from kind of my core community yeah so I'm I'm an unmedicated ADHD person too okay and I get all the things you just said and it's been a 15 to 20 year adventure for me seeing how far I could get up river if that makes sense how far I could get up river, if that makes sense,

how far I could get up river to begin to handle these issues. Meaning I have to have friends and I got to sleep and I got to be really careful about what I eat and I got to exercise. I got to do all these things so that when I sit down to do work, I can be detail-oriented. And so I've had to, it's been an adventure. And I still to this day, if I don't sleep, the whole team will just roll their eyes when I walk in with a handful of gummy candies. They're like, oh, here we go. They know, right? When I haven't been sleeping and I haven't been exercising and I haven't been taking care of myself and my relationships are a bit screwed up and I've been on the road. So I want you to hear me say, you're not broken.

And also, job loss is a major psychological event. It's really heavy. And I don't want you to be embarrassed or ashamed by how dark it all feels. Because it's right. It's heavy, right? Yeah. all feels because because it's right it's heavy right yeah um with the first one i feel like i was able to take it in stride and um you know

mope around for a weekend and kind of get right back on it um you know looking for another opportunity trying to figure out, you know, I felt like I was like on top of like, you know, the job I became like the new job and like, I felt like I was

kind of doing what I needed to do pretty quickly. Oh, you did. You got another job. You got across the country and you moved and you got it.

It's going to be your fresh start and it's all going to work out and then they nailed you for the same thing the last job nailed you for, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I think like this one, you know, it's been about a month and like, I am not feeling that like drive that I had the first time to like go back and do it better. Here's what this is. Here's what this is.

This is grief and this is good. It's right. And I don't want you to go back and just do what you were doing harder and better. Okay? I want you to go back and just do what you were doing harder and better. Okay? I want you to reinvent the system. And that feels daunting and scary, but it's actually easier. It's smaller, tiny little steps.

And by the way, if you struggled for a long time with ADHD, you, like me, have a recurring narrative, like a ticker tape, like a stock ticker that runs underneath the story of your life that just says, you're a loser, you're a loser, you're a loser. Fair? Yeah. Yeah. And so these moments become confirmation of that story, that lie that you tell yourself, because you're not a loser, man. But you look for places in the world where you can validate that story, and you got one. You got it twice in less than two years. And one at considerable cost because you moved halfway across the country. The beautiful thing is you can also seek confirmation of stories that you're not a loser through tiny little wins.

Tiny little wins. Okay? So instead of, you do need to find a job, and I would recommend not going and finding, trying to find another career-defining moment right now or another dream job. I'd find a job that pays your bills right this second. Yeah.

And I would love for you to get way upstream and begin to look for things like, look for things like, where can I exercise? And it might start with, I'm just going to commit to two walks a day. And it might be, or I'm going to go to a local gym and just do 30 minutes. That's it. And I get online. In fact, stay online and I'll give you any mind pump. My buddies at mind pump, any workout program they have. We're going to start small.

And we're going to get a group that we're going to hang out with. I'm just going to commit to hanging out with a group. I'm just going to. It's going to be weird and hard, but I'm going to do it. Dungeons and Dragons, chess, whatever it is. Church group, I don't care One of those weird morning workout groups where all these dudes meet at the park and they yell and they're like Ah, they do push-ups and pull-ups whatever great do that Whatever it is

I'm also going to give you my friend ken coleman's get clear assessment. It's going to be an assessment that's going to help you Maybe an accountant isn't your future or maybe an insurance salesman isn't your future. But I promise these same things that make detail orientation hard can also be a superpower when you're sitting with a hurting person. It can also be a superpower when you're sitting with an organization helping them reimagine something. And so it's about you getting all the way upstream. The last thing I really want you to do Is get with a counselor in your local area And you're going to say I can't afford that what i'm going to say is you can't afford not to Because you've got a history of this happening

And that grief is going to get real real heavy And what a counselor is going to do is they're going to walk alongside you with a flashlight holding the flashlight out there And they're going to walk alongside you with a flashlight, holding the flashlight out there. And they're going to walk with you. And here's what we're going to do. A lot of little wins begins to reinforce a new story. That you can do anything. And that you can do the magic D word. You can be disciplined. Slowly, but surely, over time. Or all at the same time, really quick. Some people are just able to flip a light switch and they say today this is over But hear me say i'm not telling you to go get another job and you got to crush it. Yes. I'm telling you I'm telling you you have to create an ecosystem that lets your body know this guy's driving And the hyperactivity that spin up that spin up that spin up Doesn't have to be every second of your life.

Because now I've got a reputation, especially when it comes to writing, when it comes to editing, I've got a reputation for being maniacal about detail. Only because I've gone way upstream to deal with the other stuff. Hang on, I'm going to give you three months of better help too. How about that? We're going to hook up raymond I'm gonna take care of you And i'm gonna send you my book building a non-anxious life All of it. Everybody gets a pony and a car and we're giving it all away, right? Hey I care about you raymond and I want you to go be well

But I want you to do it the right way one last thing I don't have a copy of it, but I want you to get on amazon and pick up discipline equals freedom by jaco It's one of the best it, but I want you to get on Amazon and pick up Discipline Equals Freedom by Jocko. It's one of the best. Let's dust yourself off and stand up, and here's what comes next. Books available. I want you to pick it up. I want you to read it cover to cover. You can read it one day. You got this, Ram. You got this. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about hallow. All right, I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer

and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about though is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned

by a church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow, and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour, and you can listen

where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself and sometimes you do this with a group

and Hallow helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet earth, Hallow, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of free months when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney.

Go right now and change your life. All right, let's go out to Denver, Colorado and talk to the great and wonderful Julie. Hey, Julie, what's up? Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up? How can I help? Okay. So I have what seems like a silly question, but it's an important one to me.

In my last couple of years, I'm not keeping friends or I'm not making new friends. I had like three core friends through the 20s. And then we got married and had children and stuff. And then I actually lost one of my friends a few months ago. And I don't know if it's just a season of life where people don't want new friendships. I feel like I'm really putting myself out there and trying. And I just, I don't know. I don't know if adults are too busy to have friends or if we're just done with that time. So I would say this is the least silly question that you could possibly ask. Well, I listen to your show, and there's much deeper questions. Yeah, but this is, I think, one of the chief, like in 150 years when they're sifting through the rubble,

this will be the story they told about how they created the most magic, incredible civilization, and people died of loneliness right underneath it. Right. And they went mad. They went stone insane, which is what our culture, I mean, look around. We've gone crazy. And you can say it's because of politics,

because the way people believe and on and on and on and on, and businesses and BlackRock and blah, conspiracy, all that stuff. Sure. None of that happens on a bed of connected human interaction it just doesn't on deep powerful friendships it just doesn't and so but here we are so i think what you're asking is one of the most profound questions of our age and um oh thank you you're experiencing it in real time and i also don't want to blow by like so i think we've created the loneliest generation in human history. And, um, that sounds cool. Like on a bumper sticker, it doesn't sound cool when you're Julie in Denver and you, you live in Denver cause it's a young hit place where everybody's like,

Hey, let's go hang out. And then nobody wants to hang out. And then I also don't want to blow by like you're sitting in some deep grief right now what happened to your friend well i actually live in one of the ski towns of colorado oh so it's fight or flight they're all there and then they're all gone yeah yeah well and they're all like uber rich and i don't know if i just come across as not wealthy i don't know like i rub them. Like I can't figure it out. Um, so first of all, I am married and, you know, we've been mostly happily married for 13 years and we have a seven-year-old and how old are you? I'm 43. Oh, you're in my boat. Yeah.

You have a young kid, but you're 10 years older than most of your young kid's parents. I am. I am. And I look like a mom and I look like, I don't know. A poor mom. A little bit worn. You're ridiculous, Julie. That's ridiculous.

Okay. So back to your question. So I have core three friends that were like my lifelong buddies and we did all our twenties together. And then one of my friends got sick about two years ago and just went really quickly. She had actually three different craniotomies. And the last one was, I believe, in March. And she just, she didn't recover. Yeah. And she died.

What was her name? Well, her name was Kendra and probably her husband or family uh listens to your show ah okay she was very loved yeah she sounds amazing um she was amazing yeah my my hope is um when my time comes my friends will say like man I man, I lost an arm and a leg when that guy... That's, I mean, what more can you say about somebody? Family's supposed to talk good about you, but your friends, that's a different level. She's amazing. I think so.

And I don't know what to do with that. I don't know how to take her out of my phone and I keep wanting to call. Don't. I try to make connections at school pickup. I don't know how to take her out of my phone and I keep wanting to like call and don't, don't. So I, I try to make connections like at school pickup. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Don't blow by that. That's two different things. Yeah. I'm going to tell you something crazy and people might think I'm nuts, but call and leave her a voicemail sometime. Well, I think her husband would think that's a little nuts, but he can call you and you can say,

I'm a little bit nuts right now. Right. You're right. Or write her a letter and tell her about all the things that she's missing and don't send it. But, but the, the, I think there's this pressure to just all everybody respond in a certain way. And some people respond by shutting down and some people respond by they keep picking up their phone keep picking up their phone keep picking up their phone and some people talk to people inside their own minds and and you know when they're driving on the road they don't say actual words but inside they're having a conversation with someone that

they've lost and so i don't have any problem with making the call i don't have any problem with shooting a text message i don't have any problem with um uh text message. I don't have any problem with, um, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's when it becomes a Hillary Swank movie and somebody sends a text back that we're like, okay,

now we're in a problem. But no, I, I think, I think your grief is going to be what your grief is. And then layered on top of that is that awkward. I promise you, you feel more out of step than you are in reality.

Yeah, that might be true. You're not an ugly duckling. And you're not, I promise you, you feel more out of step than you are in reality. Yeah, that might be true. You're not an ugly duckling. I feel like. And you're not out of community with the people you live with and all those things. In fact, they would probably love to have somebody with actual wisdom in some of their conversations. Yeah, I would hope. But I try. Like, I try.

And I'm like, oh, well, that was a flop. Give me an example of a flop. So we started a new school for our daughter this year and I went to the parent, get to know the teacher's thing. And I really made an effort of reaching out to new families that said they were new to the area. And I gave out my phone number and said, hey, if you need a contact here, I'm available. I can tell you about some of the kid programs around town. And I just tried. And they looked at me like, well, we don't really want your help, and why are you talking to us? It's how it felt when I walked away. And I was like, well, I don't know.

And so what you felt was vulnerability. You did not feel reality. I don't think. Correct. everybody in the new school is trying to get used to the air and is our kid going to be safe and who's this teacher and who's this room who's this principal and so it's kind of like when back in like college a buddy of mine would would say i have one friend in particular who went up to this beautiful woman in in like the middle of like accounting and was like, Hey, would you like to go out? And it's like time and place, man. Like this isn't the moment. Right. And so I think the next step, which is going to be, this is you feeling that vulnerability, those, those social anxiety alarms

and you going game on and you go straight into them. But the next step is you reach out to them and invite them over with their kid over to play. Right. Right. And I felt like I was doing it in an appropriate manner. I know, I know. I'm being silly. I'm being silly. I was like talking to people. I wasn't like cornering them and not letting them free from the playground area.

Yeah, no, no, no. I totally get that. And there's just so many dynamics there, but there's something else at your kitchen table that humanizes everything. Especially, I can tell you'd be the person and be like, well, I'm the old seven-year-old mom. Everyone would laugh. They'd go, no, you're not. That bullet is out of the gun.

It's out of the chamber now. Now we're friends. Now I can ask you, hey, I've been married seven years. Is this normal? You can go, no, it's not normal. Or, yeah, it's, hey, I've been married seven years. Is this normal? And you can go, no, it's not normal. Or yeah, it's totally normal because I'm 13 years down the road. So it comes back to this core issue that I hear over and over. And I'm going to be honest with you.

I experienced it myself. I am an awkward friend. And I wish that I wasn't. And I don't mean to be. But I'm just awkward. And my friends who I've known mean to be, but I'm just awkward. And my friends who I've known for 30 years, they know, yeah,

Deloney just stands over there by himself at concerts. It's so weird. And Deloney just thinks that joke is hilarious and it is for sure not hilarious at all, not even a little bit. Or Deloney just leaves. He just goes to the bathroom and he goes home and he didn't tell us he was leaving. And I didn't even think about it

because we're having a great conversation. I'm just going to go ahead and go home. And so they know that, but new friends don't. And so I'll tell you, there's only one path forward. Oh, let me, let me, before I tell you the path, what I've come to realize is me and everybody I talk to has this core sense and you're expressing it in a really, in a funny way, but there's some truth to it. You almost feel middle school again. Braces. Do I look right? Are these the right jeans? And it's this core sense of what happened to my friends. And that's what our bodies do when we are alone. And to answer your original question, I think the hardest part of turning 35 was realizing that the friendships I had

that were so meaningful and deep and powerful and in my wedding, in my 20s, like that guy got divorced and this guy took another job and this guy had two kids and this guy had no kids and we just kind of faded out and there is no manual for 35 and 45-year-old friends.

It doesn't exist. And so the only thing I've seen that works is just to go be weird. And just invite people over and invite people over. And in our house, we've done it and we've done it again and we've done it again. And then boom, we ended up with a couple of really close friends. Okay. But it's as simple as knowing in our core, you and me,

folks in our situation who moved to new communities at our age with younger kids, we're pretty cool. We're good. You know what I mean? Sure, we got some miles on us, is that what you said? You got some weather on us or whatever you said? Sure. I'm worn.

A little worn. You're worn. It's so so ridiculous like you're a car tire we tried um you know soccer so this is new and i just remember sitting on the field being like oh man this is boring i don't want to be here yes but i thought oh i'll talk to some of the moms and you know families around and i just stood there and i'm like okay no, no one wants to make connections. They don't. Correct. And that is very, very true. Yeah.

Until somebody does. Okay. Until somebody does. And I mean, the only other thing that I've seen effective, and this has been way more my wife than me, is to get involved in community groups. Like my wife's a writer. So she gets involved. She has a group of writers and they meet once a month or a group of women who are

coach professionals and she hangs out with them. She has a group from our church and they get together pretty regularly. So, but it was group-based and we all, it's, it's, everyone shows up to this thing and we all have this one common interest in common. Can we go from there? Cause people show up to soccer games, you know, this just by watching them. There's those parents who show up as this is like a pre-college workout

program. And then there's the scholarship ROI parents. And then there's the like court ordered parents. And then there's the kid just running around in circles, looking for his game controller out in the middle of field parents. I mean, it's, they're all,

everyone goes to soccer, but it's for a thousand different reasons. Everybody shows up to jujitsu for one reason. Everybody shows up to horseback riding for one reason. And so that's where I think you can get involved in some, in some groups. And that sounds insane when you're the parent of a seven-year-old because I am one too.

Like I don't, the thought of having the time to go get involved in a group is madness. Yeah, and we also have our own business. So my husband and I, our conversations are typically around our business or just life in general. And so I was looking for more of like an outlet of,

I mean, I love my husband and he needs me to have a girlfriend in life too. So maybe a group thing. The way you said that was incredible. And I know what you meant, but you said that awesome. Thanks. Ben, am I crazy? I have a good life.

I just want some more friends. The way you said that awesome. Thanks. Ben, we might have a good life. I just want some more friends. The way you said it was like, I love my husband and he wants a girlfriend. And I had to stop for a second. You said he wants you to have. No, I'm sorry. He wants you to have some other friends. He wants me to have like someone

that I can go do something with. It's a very different call now. There you go. There you go. Yes. Right. Very different. I know grammar matters.. There you go. Yes. Right. Very different. I know grammar matters.

No, he does not want a girlfriend. What's your, what's your business? We have like a mobile tire service. Okay. This is going to sound nuts and maybe you don't want to hang out with tire folks, but is there, I mean, and again, I'm stretching here, but is there some sort of barbecue that your husband throws at his house for families that are in small businesses or in mobile businesses or some kind of something that picks up with whatever? Is there a group of

moms of seven-year-olds that you can have over to your house and only three are going to show up and one of them is going to be so weird. And then the other two are going to be kind of normal, but they're not going to talk because of over there. And like, let me say this. The friendship thing is not hard because you're a bad person. The friendship thing is not hard because you're not worth being a friend or nobody wants to be friends with you. I think the friendship thing is hard because we don't worth being a friend or nobody wants to be friends with you. I think the friendship thing is hard because we don't have a skillset. We don't have a roadmap. None of us were prepared for being 30 or 35 or 40 and realizing all of our friends had moved or taken jobs or had kids or gotten married or whatever. We are all by ourself. And then our body starts screaming at us.

Something as simple as, and Ben and I talked about this, we talked about this on this very show, about there's something about getting together and playing music with some friends. And these guys are coworkers. And a couple of these guys, I've shared a couple of different years,

which means we were in the same tiny little room practicing for months on end. And then we go have this like common mission and each of us like screw up in our own little way on stage. And we all kind of laugh and each of us like hit something out of the park on stage. It ends up being like a group of guys that I really respect and that I really like hanging out with. And then I really like laughing with, and then I really like, so natural friendships develop out of that, that normally wouldn't have been there because we didn't have that common mission. So the two paths, again, to wrap it up, the two

paths forward, go be weird, go invite people to your house and consciously say, I'm not going to make this thing spotless. This isn't a Southern Living Magazine ad. This is my friends. I'm going to have some friends over. And there will be some awkward interactions. And then there's gonna be one or two magic ones. And then the second thing is start seeking in your local community to join some groups. And I know it's harder, the more rural you get, that's harder, the busier you get, but let's put that on the calendar. Hey, honey, I'm going to step away from family business for two hours a week to go do reading at the library with some friends or go to the knitting club or the whatever club.

And he's going to say, I'm going to go to the fishing club or to the skeet shooting club or whatever y'all do and begin to just put yourselves out there. It will continue to be weird because you're lacking skills and the people you're trying to connect with have no skills either. So it's a bunch of kids who have never seen a basketball game in their life. And somebody handed them a ball and two hoops. And they said, play basketball. And they're hitting each other in the head with a ball, kicking it, bouncing off each other's face. I mean, it's just a madhouse until y'all slowly get the rhythm. And one guy's like, I think you dribble.

And the other guy's like, I think you shoot. And so keep at it. My promise is there is friends out there. There are adults desperate for wise, funny, cool people like you. Small business owners with seven-year-olds trying to figure out phones and dating and all that weird stuff. Man, they're out there. I promise. Just keep showing up and just keep showing up.

And stop that ticker tape, that story that runs underneath your life that says you're not worth having friends. That story that keeps going and going that says you don not worth having friends. That story that keeps going and going that says you don't have any friends because nobody likes you. You don't have any friends because you're not worthy of being liked. You don't have any friends because, because, because. Cut that nonsense out because it's not true.

It's just simply not true. Thank you so much for the call, Julie. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings

and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, the song is Evergreen by Luca Fagali. Yeah, this is a Christian's pick. They better be good. If you're setting me up. His first pick. It'd be great. You have one shot, Christian, and you picked Luca Fagali. All right, I'm trusting you that they're amazing.

Songs goes like this. If I turn back now, would you understand that I'm a winding path, an idle hand? If I disappeared, could you just forget that I'm an empty page, a silhouette? Have I lost the plot of everything? Thrown the punch, half speed swing. I want to recognize this world for all it could become.

I want to see all of the parts as more than just their sum. I want to know all of your love and all that it could be, an infinite blue and evergreen. Well done, Christian. I give it that. That's some good poetry right there. Y'all are good poetry, too. That was kind of a weird dad thing to try to roll that word

into my awkward goodbye. I love y'all. See ya.