The Dr. John Delony Show - I Want Kids & My Wife Doesn't

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

Today, we hear from a woman wondering if it’s okay to end her relationship with her sister, a man crippled by body dysmorphia and obsessed with exercise after his divorce, and a husband deciding if he and his wife’s different stances on having children is cause for divorce. Then, at the end, Delony breaks down a gnarly scene in The Adam Project from his perspective. Is it ok to distance from my sister for because of her life choices? My anxiety keeps spinning up after a rough divorce I really want kids & my wife definitely doesn’t. Should we divorce over this? Delony Breaks Down “The Adam Project” Lyrics of the Day: "Time After Time" - Cyndi Lauper Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I am wondering if it's okay to completely disconnect and like no longer have a relationship from my sister. So you don't want to hang out with your sister anymore. You don't want to cut her out of your life because of the way she looks. It's a factor. Hey, good morning, everybody, or afternoon, good evening, or good night. This is the Dr. John Deloney Show, and I'm John. I'm super happy to be hanging out with you.

Talking about mental health relationships. We're talking about being well on this show. This is the best mental health podcast ever. The best mental health podcast ever. Tell your friends, go to the internets and subscribe and leave positive reviews on how all the internets go. It's the best ever. I feel like, James, if I just keep saying it over and over, it's like my kids are like, Dad, we're going to have jelly beans. Hey, Dad, we're going to have jelly beans.

And eventually I'm like, just whatever. Okay. You can have them. So I'm just going to keep putting that in the atmosphere. Um, what's that thing they call, uh, um, I'm going to project it into the world. I like the power of positive thinking kind of thing. What is it Kelly? Speak it into being. Yes. I'm going to speak it into being. It's the best one ever. Ever. And let's go to Brooke in Salt Lake City. Hey, Brooke, you're on the best mental health podcast of all time. What's up? I feel pretty fortunate. You don't sound sold.

I like it. I like it. You're like, this is the 14th best show. Let's be clear. What's up? Okay, so I guess I'll just get right to my question. Um, I am wondering if it's okay to completely disconnect and like no longer have a relationship from my sister. And if it makes me shallow or prude, if her appearance is a large factor in that desire. Interesting. Continue. Don't tell me more. So you don't want to hang out with your sister anymore.

You don't want to cut her out of your life because of the way she looks? It's a factor. It's a factor. It's the prominent factor. There's a lot. Yes. I've been scribbling in a notebook trying to organize my thoughts and haven't really figured them out yet. Okay, so let's pull your question apart.

Is it make you a bad person to disconnect from your sister? No. If you're not safe, if let's, let's back out. If you don't want to be in a relationship with somebody, then you've got the freedom to do that. And I'm not going to judge why you're doing that. Um, I might tell you like that was dumb or I wouldn't do that, but you're a grownup and you can do what you want to do. So no, I wouldn't say off out of, out of the gate, disconnecting from your sister is a bad thing. And it wouldn't make you a prude that has to do with like making out and stuff, I think. So I guess, I guess maybe it could be about clothes and outfits. So yeah.

What, what happened to your sister? Like, why do you, what happened to your feelings towards your sister? Well, I guess we've never really been, like, we're close in age, but, like, so I guess, so originally, like, her life, she's kind of did, got married, like married when she was young. I did too. She got married, had kids, and checks the boxes. But I think she was lonely and it didn't work out. And so she kind of over the course of COVID, I guess you could call it, um, her marriage imploded on itself. They got into a lot of, you know, financial problems and just problems.

And then the same month that she got divorced, she got married to the guy she was with and, um, Oh, so she was cheating on her husband? Yeah. Yeah. And they, I mean, they've had a lot of, of difficulties. Um, like I feel like, I feel like, you know, they checked the boxes of like what you're supposed to do, but they were lonely, you know? And, um, so she cheated on him, she met somebody new and then she got divorced. And then 30 days later she was married to this new dude.

Right. Yeah. And now it's just getting, I mean, there's a lot more than just the appearance stuff, but like, it's just because I think the appearance is just kind of presenting the problems.

Um, she's gone from like, like almost, you know, stereotypical mom look to she's shaved her head, um, and has a mohawk and she's like dressing in like rather inappropriate clothing, but I don't want my kids around. And what does that mean?

Like, like, like she's like, like Slayer t-shirts or she's like exposing parts of her body. Like, like it's exposing, like... Like, Slayer t-shirts? Or she's, like, exposing parts of her body? Like, it's exposing. Like, she... Okay, okay. I did have her at, like, one of my kids' birthday parties. And, like, somebody else was even, like... Isn't that kind of a lot for a kid's birthday? Like, she's wearing clothes that, like...

My wife tells me that I'm kind of a lot for kids' birthdays sometimes. Because I'm obnoxious and loud. But, okay, so... I don't think for a second this, I think maybe a little bit. I know she's getting tattoos on her knuckles and she's talking about face tattoos

and she's gotten a new piercing every week. And I don't know, there is more relationship-wise. I think that I don't have like, you know, like a, a specific, like, you know, like, I think, I think the appearance is you scrambling for an excuse as to why you don't want to be around her. Because my guess is, where do you work? Do you work?

I'm a stay-at-home mom. Okay. If you worked by somebody who had a mohawk, a giant red mohawk, and you've never hung out with people. I grew up going to punk clubs with punks like that. If you don't know anybody like that, it's intimidating.

And then you get to know them, they're like, oh, they're just like us. And it gets to be funny, and you're like, dude, they're just like us. And it gets to be funny. And you're like, dude, you put a lot of time into your hair. It's like a whole thing, right? Yeah. You would make friends with them and you'd end up having connections with them. I don't think this is about that.

I can see it being different and unique. Let me put it this way. I would have no problem with my kids hanging out with somebody's mom who had a Mohawk and a bunch of tattoos. I wouldn't, I wouldn't. Now my kids are going to point it out. I'm going to, in the presence of the person, I'm going to be like, check out this hair. I'm going to make sure everybody knows that I know that they know, right. But I'm not going to, I'm not worried about that. Now, if somebody is dressing inappropriately in ways that I don't want around my kids, that's I'm their parent. I get to make that call, right? And I'm not going to feel bad about

making that call. This is deeper than that. You don't like your sister. And in fact, you've fallen deeply out of relationship with your sister. And this hard part about brothers and sisters and moms and dads is they're part of us. Right? Like part of me is in them and part of them is in me. Yeah. And when we don't like the behavior, the actions, the moral character, the whatever of our brother and sister, it's devastating to us because we start to not like parts of ourself.

And so we create these false distances to give ourselves permission to have boundaries. And I'm going to tell you, you don't need that permission. Set your boundaries. And then if you haven't already, you have to grieve the loss of your sister. You've got to grieve the loss of your relationship with your sister. And it's hard and it stinks. Don't go to rage and don't go to anger. Go to sadness because it stinks. How do you even do that? Grieve, I guess. Yeah.

I mean, for most people, the most effective thing, and you hear me say this 5,000 times on the show, is to write your sister a letter that you're never going to send her. But most people start writing that letter and it's 10, 15, 20 pages long. Some can do it two or three, which is great. Sit down and say, hey, when we were little, start there.

And I really wish you had of, and I should have, and I'm sorry about, and I can't believe you cheated on, and I can't believe you did that to those kids, your children. You know what I mean? Get all that stuff. I'm pissed off. I'm angry. I'm frustrated. I'm super sad. That's all grief. Grief is the gap between what you hoped would happen or you wanted to happen and what actually happened. And it sounds like you had a picture in your head. It would have been cool to have a sister close in age and we were best friends and sisters and our kids played

together and they grew up together and we went on crazy trips together and our husbands mowed lawns together whatever and that fantasy's gone right yeah yeah i kind of knew it would never i know but we know we know it's not going to happen but we don't ever own and acknowledge reality and so our bodies keep trying to solve for that picture even though in our heads we know We know it's not going to happen, but we don't ever own and acknowledge reality. And so our bodies keep trying to solve for that picture, even though in our heads we know. And it's exhausting, right? Yeah. Have you called your sister and said, hey, I miss you?

No. Why haven't you done that? Maybe you don't miss her. That's what I mean. Maybe you don't. I mean, yeah, I think like we're close in age, but there's a lot of, I don't know. It's kind of like, I think like, uh, we grew up together, but like didn't grow up together at all. Um, and so we've checked the boxes of like's stop checking boxes. How old are you? I am 26. 26. What I will tell you is it's never too late to call somebody and say,

I want to have a relationship with you because I love you and I miss you. And we should have done this a long time ago. I should have gone first a long time ago and I didn't. And now I'm 26 and now you're 27 or you're 28 or you're 24. I miss my sister. And I want to be your friend and start there. And you may learn about some things about your sister that you had no idea. Maybe not. But only then in that context of that relationship, do you have permission to say, Hey, what's happening in your marriage?

Cause you can lob grenades on the other side of that fence, but it doesn't matter. They just bounce off. Right. Or they blow things up and you're not a part of the collateral damage. Right. Yeah. It's not too late if that's what you want.

I think that I've been there a lot to like listen to her and I've been like a sounding board for her but I don't really know if there's a relationship there and have you ever tried you sit in some

in a rather position like a high position of judgment is your sister not a good person no okay a rather position of like a high position of judgment. Is your sister not a good person? No. Okay. Then why do you continue to perpetuate the fantasy of the relationship? Why don't you cut her off?

Move on with your life. Because I don't have anyone else. Yeah, there we go. And often we will stay in relationship with toxic people who hurt us because the alternative is being completely alone, right? Yeah. Nobody's told you this, Brooke, but you're worth having friends. How many little ones do you have? Four.

How old is the oldest? Six. Holy smokes. Is your husband a good guy? Yeah, he's amazing. Is he off working all day? We're pretty fortunate. He's working from home and he has a really good schedule.

He's really involved in the house. Okay. A wife surrounded by a husband, even if he's lovely and involved in four miniature humans, can find herself on an island of loneliness that is absolutely devastating. You're worth more than a relationship that's one-sided with somebody who does not have good character, who drags you through their mud. You're worth telling your husband, hey, I'm going to start reaching out and having a group of women over, or I'm going to start having a coffee night, or I'm going to start a book club, or I'm going to start a whatever group, and I'm just going to start figuring this out. And here's, let me tell you this. The greatest gift you can give your kids

is letting them see you have friends. Letting them see you say, goodbye, daddy's doing bedtime tonight because mommy's going to hang out with her friends. That is a gift you can give your children. A gift you can give your husband is to leave once or twice a week to go hang out with your girlfriends

you hear me? I'm not making this up, I'm not lying to you the greatest thing you could do is to go get connected with other people and simultaneously you gotta let the fantasy of your sister go it's not too late if you want to build that relationship. It sounds like she has no interest in being in relationship with you.

She likes dumping things on you and she likes you carrying her crap for her, but she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. And that sucks. Yeah. And you got to mourn and grieve that, okay? Okay. Write that letter and then read it to your husband out loud. He probably doesn't even know the depths.

Maybe he does, but probably not. Okay. Cool? Yeah. Will you call two women this week and go hang out? Yeah.

You won't. Don't lie. If you lie, you get struck by lightning. You promise? I don't. I don't know how, but I'll figure it out. Call one. Call one.

Will you call one? Yeah. And go get coffee? Yeah. I can do that. Okay. Call one. You're worth being friends with, Brooke. you're worth being friends with bro you're worth being friends

we'll be right back this show is sponsored by better help october is the season for wearing costumes and if you haven't started planning your costume seriously get on it i'm pretty sure i'm gonna go as brad pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn

to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere

so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, let's go to Andrew in Little Rock, Arkansas. What's up, Andrew? Hey, Dr. John. Thanks for having me on.

You bet, man. Thanks for coming on and hanging out with us for a little while. What's up, dude? Hey, well, I am about a year out removed from a pretty tough divorce and I feel like I've done most of the things right, but I'm still dealing with some issues. And then also I feel like I've almost developed like a almost an anxiety tick that I seemingly can't break, even though almost a year has passed and I'm not sure what to go, what to do or what to go from. And so I've poured myself into my, you know, my friends and my work and, uh, my family outside of my divorce and all of that has gone really well. Um, but over the past year, even though there's no evidence to suggest that I'm dealing with this problem, I've become incredibly anxious about just being insecure and losing my hair, even though

baldness doesn't even run in my family. And I'm not balding, but I still worry about it almost all the time. And I don't know if that's just because of I've done almost everything else, quote unquote, right. Recovering from the divorce and my body is just trying to find something to worry about. There you go, dude. Yeah, that's awesome. I'm glad you're I'm glad you figured that out. That's awesome.

So how long were y'all married? We were married just under two years. What happened? Unfortunately, she had pretty much lived a double life our entire relationship, and she had been cheating on me pretty much the whole time. It's very common for people to say, like, oh, my ex was crazy. But when I was reading about it more later, I learned about narcissisticistic personality disorder and it seemed like she really fit the bill for that. Um, so she just, she never apologized. There was never any closure. Um, and she cut literally everyone off right away and it was over in a weekend. And so were you, um, did you have any idea or were you

all in? I was all in. Um, I, in the last few months of our marriage, I thought something was wrong, but we were also in the last year of college and we're just both in our senior projects and just trying to survive. And so I kind of chalked everything up to that. Um, looking back, there were some things that it's like, Oh yeah, now that, that makes sense. But there was no like moment where, you know, friends come up and like, man, I wish I had told you or like had seen other things. Like no one, even her own, like her own maid of honor had no idea and isn't friends with her anymore and is still friends with me type deception. And so, um, yeah.

Oh man. There's a lot of avenues to take here. Um, before your marriage, you struggle with anxiety in the past. Yeah. You know, I, I've always, yeah, I've definitely been a worrier. Um, you know, and it's always, it's rotated seemingly kind of through things in life. Um, but I guess now with the problem that I'm dealing with now is that it's like an everyday thing. Even, uh, like there was one caller on the show, uh, a few weeks ago that I'd heard where you had made a joke about how, like, you weren't expecting to be married to a guy that didn't have this much hair

or like as much hair on his head. And that like sent me into thinking about it at work when I hadn't. I was like, ah, shoot. And it's just stuff like that. Like offhanded comments that'll have nothing to do with it will now kick me. And it all started too from a joke that someone made about my hair. And literally ever since then, I've just been. Okay, so let me walk you through because you're sounding like me. So that one little seemingly innocent comment, you get that warm feeling in your stomach. You know what I mean?

Like your heart starts beating a little bit faster. And then you start getting amped up like, no, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. And that seems to pour gasoline on it, and then your body's off to the races, man. Yeah, like my heart rate will go up while I'm

at work at a desk, and you know, yeah. Okay, so hear me say this clearly, and I know you know this, this has zero, nothing to do with your hair. Has zero, nothing to do with your body, has zero, nothing to do with your hair. Has zero, nothing to do with your body. Has zero, nothing to do with any of these external things.

Okay? This is a body that's trying to get your attention in any way that it can. So when you were worried, marriage is a thing, and we'll get back to your marriage. Who taught you to worry? I would say both of my parents kind of worry in their own ways. Okay. I don't think they, I think they did their best. Don't defend them.

They're grownups. They're tough. They're tough. They're fine. I think they never pushed it on me, but I could see their anxiety, and that's just how I learned to do it. Okay, so parents don't often push things on their kids. Kids absorb tension in a household, and kids absorb that disconnection between mom and dad, right? And kids try to solve that. And the body knows we're not connected.

And when mom and dad is off in their own world trying to solve their own issues, and yes, they're feeding and watering the kids, but that's part of it. Kids need to be anchored into mom and dad. And when they're not anchored in, they spin and spin and spin and spin and spin. Making perfect grades, getting straight hundreds can often be an anxiety response. It can be a way to try to quell that, to try to clear, jump that gulf between mom and dad back, right? And rumination is another fun one. It may be that more than anxiety, it sounds very OCD is what you're struggling with. And I'm not going to diagnose you. So

I'm not giving you a diagnostic. I'm saying this is the loop, right? The loop-de-loop-de-loop-de-loop. But instead of checking locks in your house, your brain is ticking off. Okay, what about this? What about this? What about this? What about this? Oh, there it is. There it is. There it is. They're not going to love us. We're going to be stuck by our... Right, and then now it's... Now I'm in full-fledged fight or flight, and I got to ride this sucker out, right? And it's exhausting way to live. My guess is you have done a remarkable job of running down the checklist, but you have not fully grieved the two big things that happen when somebody cheats on you. You haven't fully grieved that somebody looked at you and decided, I want somebody else, which is devastating. And you haven't grieved the secret evil of divorce, which is you missed it. And now it was confirmed that Andrew is not trustworthy because I couldn't even tell with

my wife. And your body's trying to get your attention that we're not okay. We're not safe. We're not in control. We're disconnected. And so you've hung out with people and you've gotten busy at work. Did you go back to the gym?

I did. Ah, cool. You went back to the gym. Have you like started reading some books? Yeah, I've read books. Started doing jujitsu. Oh, see, we're doing awesome. Those things that you're doing are fantastic

but here's what they do they provide an extraordinary strong anchored foundation for you to do the really hard crap and that's what you haven't done so your body feels busy and it feels full

and your brain's screaming at you, we're still not safe because those external things were never the problem. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. I guess my, my only thing, or not my only thing, but my, my question to that would be, I feel like I felt obviously, you know, everyone goes through it differently, but I felt like I went through all of the quote unquote stages of grief throughout the year. And I guess, I don't know, I guess I don't know how else to continue to grieve and deal with it because I feel like, like the problem, like you were mentioning with ruminations, it's like,

what's the difference between dealing with it and grieving versus ruminating and just sitting and dwelling on those thoughts? Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely. It's a great question. Ruminating is when your mind spins out and it feels like productive thinking. It feels like it's trying to help you. And it's not. It's an activity. And your brain gets addicted to that, by the way, because it spins up the stress chemicals. And your body gets addicted to the stress chemicals. And if you're doing all these other things like jujitsu and exercise and whatever, then you're not giving the body its hit that it needs. So basically your head is a crack dealer now and it knows how

to get its hit. If you're not going to get it in the real world, we're going to spin up some thoughts and get it that way. And then your body launches into a fight or flight that you're not even... Have you had the moment when you're like there's nothing wrong here. There's nobody coming at me with a hatchet. There's no out of control barber going to take off

the rest of my hair, but your body's acting as though somebody's chasing you with the clippers, right? Yeah. I've had that moment where now I've, you know, I told my family some of my worries, and, like, I showed them pictures from years ago where my hairline is exactly the same as it is now. And now they give me a hard time about worrying about it. Right, right, right. They joke about it because it's not happening. Right. But this isn't about your hair.

Yeah. This is about a mind trying to get its body's attention. And so here's a couple of things that you didn't mention. Are you sleeping? Uh, I initially, it's kind of gone through waves. Are you sleeping? I initially, it's kind of gone through waves. Initially, it was not great. And then I really locked it down.

More recently, I was super, super blessed. I actually closed on a house and have been in the process of moving. And that has definitely affected my sleep. How much money do you owe? How much money do you owe? How much money do I owe? Yeah. How in debt are you? I'm debt free outside of my house. Okay, great. You feel good about this house? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's way more than enough space for me. And I think it'll be a good investment for the future. Yeah. But that's the other thing too. Like I used to, when I was married,

I was worried about money more often than not. But now that I've been single and have been doing things pretty well in that regard, like my body, I'm not worried about it. And so I feel like that's also partially why I've moved on to something else. Okay, so here's a couple of things I want you to practice. Okay. The first thing is, is when your body spins up, I want you to be curious about it.

Don't get, don't, don't give into the panic. What I mean by that is when it, somebody mentions something about losing your hair. And you spin up. Ask yourself in that moment, what around me is not safe? What in my environment is not safe? Did I sleep last night? Am I not calling my friends? Did I skip a thing?

I want to figure out what my body's really responding to because it's not this because my hair is fine. I know that cognitively, something in my defaults wiring system is trying to protect me from something. What is it? What is it? And usually it's one of three things. I'm not connected. I don't have a connection. I'm sorry. I'm not connected. I'm not safe or I'm not in control. I don't have autonomy. And it sounds like you're working towards all three of those things in a really remarkable way. Here's another truth that people don't like to hear.

And people have jumped on to, yeah, Deloney hates medication, whatever. I think we're way over-medicated. And if you've worked with a faulty alarm system for a long time, there is a season when medication can really help reset that thing. Okay. And it might be worth sitting down with the doctor and saying, here's all the things I'm doing and my anxiety alarms are still ringing. The catch is if you start taking meds, you have to go see a counselor too. Have you done that? I, uh, I have not. And I should, I should have, however, I guess my only, I became a little bit jaded with it because I had been going to counseling before the divorce, trying to improve myself. And then kind of afterwards when I

realized it's not that, I mean, I wasn't a perfect spouse. No one is, but you know, I never broke our vows. Andrew, Andrew. Yeah. Your divorce wasn't your fault. You didn't do anything wrong. Hold on. You did not do anything wrong. Okay. Yeah. you did not do anything wrong. Okay? Yeah. And you're trying to solve the algorithm, and there's not going to be a solution.

The computer's going to run and run and run and run until smoke comes out of the machine. You got hurt. Yeah. And somebody screwed you over. Probably somebody that's not well. And quite honestly, it doesn't matter because it hurt.

Yeah. And you deserved better than that. You didn't get it. That's the exhale. That feeling you're feeling right this second. That's grief. That's the, yeah, dude, I didn't do anything. And getting a bunch of, getting great abs, becoming good at fighting.

All those things are fun and good. Getting a lot of books, getting a new house, getting a new job. All those things are great. They have zero to do with the divorce. Yeah. The divorce is because something was not well with the divorce. Yeah. The divorce is because something was not well with her, not you. And anxiety rings when we find ourselves in situations that we can't control it. And one of the most damning scary things is we can't control other people.

I can't make her stay. And then the alarms sound. Given all the work you've done, my brother, I think it's time you write her a letter. Don't send it. Let her know how you really feel. You may not have done that. Go see a doctor.

And then you have to see a counselor too. Combine both of them. Okay. Here's the good news. You're doing hard, hard work. And you love yourself, which is beautiful. And you understand that you're worth doing this work. And that's great. And let me tell you on the other side of what you're feeling right now,

there is wellness, there is healing, there is sleep, there is deep, deep laughter. I promise you that. But you have to walk through the darkness. So I want you to get some people to walk through it with you. We'll be right back. Hey, we are back. Before we go to John, hey, do me a huge favor.

Go back to find your favorite episode of the show and just text it to somebody that you love. Or if it's about them, somebody that you don't love, text them for sure. Text them two episodes, right? But I want to start sharing the show. Let's get it out there. Thank you so, so much for those of you who've already done that.

The numbers continue to just shoot up. It's bananas how the show's growing. I want to put some gasoline on the fire. Helps us keep this thing going down the road a little bit. So please share your favorite episode with somebody who needs it. Let's go to John in Fort Mill, South Carolina. What's up, John? Hey, John.

How you doing? I'm good, my brother. How are you? I'm doing very well. I love listening to your show. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. What's up?

So I've been married for about six to seven years. And when I got married, we were on the same path of having kids. And about a year and a half to two years ago, my wife has come to me and says that she does not want kids. And I have been struggling with, when that came up, I was like, well, do I really want kids? And so I questioned whether I want kids. And recently I've determined that I do want kids. So I'm at a crutch of whether I choose kids or whether I choose my wife. And I don't know what direction and kind of how to make that decision.

That's hard, man. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's a little tricky. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those, yeah, your path forward is really simple. Just like diet and exercise, man. That's how you lose weight.

Well, thanks, dude. Right? So if you and I were just like having a drink, eating chips and queso, my next question would be, so you already know what you're going to do.

So what are you going to do? Oh, still, you know, you know, you know, what are you going to do? Hmm. I mean, I really want the kids, but I struggle. I'm also, you know, faith-based, so I struggle with divorce and leaving my wife behind.

So I struggle with that a lot. Has she left you behind? A little bit in this decision, yes, she has. This isn't a little decision. This is an identity shapeshifter decision Yeah And she's allowed to change her mind And you're allowed to be put in a really awkward situation, right? Yes, yeah

So what are you going to do? Well, I've talked to a lot of people. I've gotten several vibes from several people. Okay, hold on. So we're in an age now where it feels like the greatest antidote to anxiety is more data, more information. I'm going to have one more cup of coffee. I'm going to make one more call. I'm going to have one more meeting.

What are you going to do, John? I don't know. I think the best, that's where I'm at, because I love her so much. And then, but I want kids. So I'm going to grieve one thing or the other. So whether I grieve her or I grieve a kid, there's going to be something that I'm going to grieve.

Can you stay in relationship with this woman and not resent her? I think I won't resent her because... I'm telling you right now, John, you're going to have to work real, real hard. Every time you go to the grocery store and there's two kids in a stroller and one's being goofy and one's being silly,

you're going to have to exhale. Yeah. Because that could be you. No, it's hard. Right? It's hard. Yeah, I've been dealing with that for the past year or so.

Every time you drive by a Little League game, you're going to have to exhale. Yeah. Because that's what y'all agreed on and then things changed. Yeah. Right? Yeah, that's what y'all agreed on and then things changed. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, that's definitely what we agreed on and then things changed. Can you do that? It's a challenge. I've been trying to do it for the past year because I found out about a year ago that kids were off the table. And so I've been trying to do that. And candidly, our relationship, it's hard to put a significant amount of work into a relationship knowing this, but I'm trying to put that to the side and put a lot of effort into relationship, even though this is, you know, a portion of, you know, something that we're dealing with.

So I want to – this is one of those issues that I can't quantify. I don't have any scientific studies. Few things weigh in an identity sense like are we going to have kids or not. So this is not like, hey, I want to live in a condo in the city and, hey, I want to live on two acres in the country. This isn't that. This is core. Okay? So I don't want you to minimize this.

I want you to let this overwhelm you with the grief that it is. It's huge. Big. Right? Yeah, it definitely is. The one question I, you know, I still say there's hope to potentially have one. And, you know, there's still that big shadow of having a kid, but I still, you know, I don't know. I don't want to create hope where there's no hope. It sounds like she was really kind to you in her clarity. Not really. I don't feel like it was a dual decision.

Okay. And I've tried to get empathy from her the past month or two about grieving a child. And it typically ends up talking about separation and divorce. You know, she doesn't want me not to have kids and she's willing to separate. It's just. Okay. So hold on, hold on, hold on. I was getting there and then I got sidetracked. What's really underneath this? I mean, the talks of separation and divorce are definitely right there.

There's no doubt. My guess is these conversations were going on before she dropped this on you. I mean, the talks of separation and divorce are definitely right there. There's no doubt. I mean, we have all the reasons. But my guess is these conversations were going on before she dropped this on you. Is this her out? Yeah. I don't know. Yes, you do. John, yes, you do.

Is this her out? I mean, it could be. I mean, it could be her out. She could put it on, hey, this is, I don't want to have kids, and, you know, I'm ready to give up on the relationship. Because she, I mean, there's things in our relationship that we both struggle with 100%. Like what? Like what? So we've been going to therapy almost every week for about a year to deal with stuff.

And, you know, she feels that she doesn't feel wanted in our relationship, which is pretty big. And so, that's one of the reasons why she says she doesn't want to have kids

and also she just doesn't want to have kids because she also has other issues. She deals with depression and anxiety. So, those are big things that she deals with.

Why doesn't she feel like you value her? Because there's probably some times where I don't show that in her. And that's what I've been trying to get back to that, to show her that I do value her. I don't know if it's too little too late. I'm not sure. Here's what I'm hearing from you. Or here's what I'm not hearing from you. And I want you to, when you listen back to this,

know I'm an old college professor, okay? And so when someone would come in and be like, this is the right way to do fill in the blank, I always, my job as a college professor was to hit the other side of that scale. Okay. So I'm not going to tell you what to do. I'm just trying to push buttons and see where you land. And here's why I have not heard. I haven't heard a guy who in a counseling session when his wife bears her soul and says,

I don't feel like you want me. And I'm not bringing a kid into this. That you don't take a knee and hold her hand and say, I'm ready to storm the gates of hell for you. I'm going to fight for this. I'm going to change everything. I'm going to change my clothes, my job, my life, because you are my partner in this deal. I hear a guy going, well, you know, I'm going to work on it. I'm going to call a guy and we're going to go get some beers and we'll, yeah, we're going to figure it out. That's what I hear. And for a woman who's struggling with anxiety, what are the, you just heard the last call it's connection, it's safety and it's autonomy control.

Yeah. Well, you know, I'm, I'm thinking about it. I'm going to, uh, I'm going to really, I'm going to work on it and, uh, I will fight for you I need you to explain I need you to write down your needs how can I touch you how can I welcome you how can I help around the house how can I love you and it's not sexy and it's not

you know, titanic and there's no music that's gonna swell but this is you helping coach me how i can love you and i am all in you talk like that and more importantly you act you back it up you change your actions there now you're talking about an entirely different household you're talking about a wife who can breathe a wife who feels anchored into something safe not something that's like I don't know man let's go lift the truck something that is in rock

right and here's my expectation that she does the same thing for you that she looks at you and says John I am all all in you write down your needs and I'm gonna storm hell to try to make these needs happen for you.

Cause I want you to feel loved too. And you deserve that also. Okay. It sounds like y'all may have one of those marriage counselors where there's a lot of talking, a lot of dancing and there's no taking sides and there's no, let's get to some solutions here. That's what I've,

that's what we struggled with. That's, we actually kind of took a little bit of a pause good go find a different one go find a different counselor and walk in the door and say

we're at a crossroads here we're talking divorce we're talking separation my wife doesn't feel loved and I don't have the tools to show her how much she means to me and I wanted to have kids

we talked about it and she has said she don't want to bring kids into this relationship and into her mental health challenges. And we need help. We need actionable help. Go challenge a therapist with that.

And there are some extraordinary therapists who will rise up and meet that challenge, but you got to be that clear. Okay. Okay. Here's how we end this today. I want, I want you to A, know probably this isn't about kids. It might be.

Ten years from now, if you choose to stay in this marriage and you're like, wow, I really thought we were having kids, she's going to point back and be like, I was pretty super clear. But the more you and I talk, the more maybe she wasn't. Right? And so the call is less about kids. The call is about a marriage that's not falling apart. It's slowly leaking out the bottom of the drain. Yeah.

Right? And it's slowly run out of oxygen. And so you're getting lightheaded and you're finding yourself gulping for air and you're wondering what happened, what happened, what happened. I don't believe in too late. I believe at any point two grown adults can look at each other and say i'm going back all in i believe that with all my heart i've seen it happen um but somebody has to go first and so it starts with you so today looks like this when she gets home from wherever she's at today you say i'm. I'm fighting for this. I'm fighting for you. I love you. And we're going

to figure out how I'm going to commit the rest of my life to meeting your needs in any way I possibly can. Are you in with me? And here's what she might say, brother. She might say no. And you got to take that risk because the other end of that equation is she might say yes she might say yes and then in two years after y'all have got two years of practicing each other's needs and meeting each other's needs and what love looks like and what connection looks like and what marriage looks like and what sex and intimacy looks like and all those things you're starting to practice those things and you're back in it you're back in it you're back in it you're back in it then you can call my show and say're back in it, you're back in it.

Then you can call my show and say, hey, I want you to meet, listen to John Jr. here. Or you may call back and say, hey, I went all in on my wife and at the end of the day, I really wanted kids. Don't make either of those decisions without at least going all in. Go all in. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here.

Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right. Hey, what's up? This weekend, my son and I were watching The Adam Project together, a new movie out on Netflix. And I love sci-fi movies and and I like heart-rendering stuff.

And I like Jennifer Gardner, and I like Ryan Reynolds. And I like the whole cast, actually. It was a great crew. And there was a scene in that movie that I wanted to break down here on the show. It was a heavy scene and a beautiful, beautiful scene. So we're going to do a scene breakdown. Do we have some lasers? This is the scene breakdown of the Adam project. So I'm going to, if you haven't seen it, I'm going

to give you a quick run through. Okay. So Adam is a time traveler from the year 2050. He's going back in time to go get his wife who dies. He accidentally lands back in the year 2022 where he meets his 12-year-old self. And if you remember Back to the Future, you're not supposed to, but he did. He did. He runs into and meets his 12-year-old self while he's waiting for his ship to repair.

And he comes face to face with his mom who's right in the middle of dealing with the death of his father. And so he has an opportunity to talk to his mom while she's grieving in real time, the death of her husband. And he gets to see how much his mom is hurting, that he gets to see a side of his mom that his 12-year-old self never got to see. And so here is that clip. It's future Adam

talking to his mom from the past, having a drink in a bar. Sorry, it's been a rough day. Here, a couple of years. Your boy's still having a hard time? He hates me.

It's not his fault. He's just dealing. It's fine. We'll be fine. It's good, good, good, good. I wish I knew what I was doing wrong. You're not doing anything wrong. Sorry. Sorry, he's kidding.

Oh, he's dropping. Sorry. You're right, eavesdropping. Yeah. Sorry. You're right, though. Teenage boys are horrible. It's like living with a urinal cake that yells at you. Pause. That is the most factual statement you will ever hear on this show ever.

Teenage boys are walking urinal cakes that yell at you. Ryan Reynolds for the win right there. All right, hit play. Mother said these are the ones Reynolds for the win right there. Alright, hit play. Mother said you should be the ones who take the hit. Yeah. But I'll tell you something. Boys always come back for their mamas. Alright, pause that.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that's not always true. And it makes for a good Hollywood statement. And I know my wife wants more than anything for that to be true. Kelly, you've got a young son. That's Hollywood. Sometimes they don't. And this is a lot of weight put on dads and put on moms, but those relationships are critical and important.

And when a kid feels like that person or that place was safe, that person, that place was whole, that person or place gave me life, they come back. But also when they recognize that place, that person wasn't safe. That person in place hurt me. They don't always come back. That's a hard reality that Hollywood doesn't like to talk about, but it's true. All right, push play. That's nice. Sounds like you're speaking from experience. I am.

You have a good mom. I do I am. You have a good mom. I do? Mom. I have the best mom. Okay. I hope you're right. I'm still researching boarding schools in Fallujah, so... Good.

No, I don't mean that. He's such a sweet kid. I'm crazy about him. We lost his dad in a car accident year before last. Yeah. That's tough. Yeah. I have no idea. Well, I have some idea. Oh. Sorry.

Sorry. Jinx. Thank you. Thank you. Aren't you grieving too? Yeah. Yeah. I am. Aren't you grieving too? Yeah. Yeah. I am.

Of course I am. So tell him. You should tell him. I don't think he needs it. Yeah, you think you're being strong for him. And the problem with acting like you have it all together is he believes it. Hit pause. That may be the truest representation

of this show in cinema I've ever seen. The greatest gift you can give your kids is not strength. It's not the greatest gift you can give your kids

is I'm hurting too. I'm sad too too I miss dad too it's one of the most beautiful pieces of advice I've ever seen in a movie so tell them moms and dads out there who are hurting, who are scared you're frustrated

you don't like watching the news, whatever don't freak your kids out and don't like watching the news, whatever. Don't freak your kids out and don't throw grenades at them, but tell them. Tell them. And there's a scene here at the end where as he gets up and walks away, Ryan Reynolds' character looks at Jennifer Gardner and says, hey, he loves you more than he knows. And that too is a true statement. Your children love you more than they even know. So as he says, just tell him.

Just tell him. It's beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful part of that movie. Love it. All right, as we wrap up today's show, we're going to— so this is kind of awkward because you don't talk about these things when you're hanging out with your guy buddies. But this is like a year ago, two years ago, and I was getting to know James.

We were out having a drink and some pizza somewhere, and he told me, he's like, dude, I have this super weird crush on Cyndi Lauper. I think she is like the one of the most beautiful women ever. And I love her singing voice and I love her music. It was super awkward. Not true and not cool. Do what? I said not true and not cool.

It was an awkward moment at the restaurant, but in honor of James, in honor of the Adam Project, today's song of the day is the one and only Cindy Lauper singing time after time. And it goes like this. Lying in my bed, I hear the clock tick and think of you. Caught up in circles, confusion is nothing new. Flashback, warm nights, almost left behind.

Suitcase of memories, time after. Sometimes you picture me, I'm walking too far ahead. You're calling to me, I can't hear what you've said. Then you say, go slow. I fall behind, the second hand unwinds. If you're lost, you can look and you will find me. I can't hear what you've said. Then you say, go slow. I fall behind the second hand unwinds. If you're lost, you can look and you will find me time after time. If you fall, I will catch you. I'll be waiting time after time. And for everybody who's hanging out with us, we'll be back time after time after time. We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode.

I'm calling because my husband has severe misophonia. No, really? Is it just kind of like, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like people just throw that around social media. Is it for real? Yeah, no, it's for real. One standout finding was a worrying decline in mental well-being

in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket. That four in 10 adolescents reported feeling persistently sad and hopeless. This is a global issue. These kids, if you were born in the late 90s and into the 2000s, your ecosystem is, climate change is going to kill us all tomorrow. The government hates you and is trying to kill you. Your teachers are stupid and they're moronic and they're terrible and they're ruining everything. The healthcare system wants to kill you and murder you.

Terrorists are trying to kill you and murder you at every turn. And they don't have humans to walk through that with them. We've just handed them cell phones.