The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m 18 and Addicted to Porn

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - An 18-year-old who wants to quit his porn addiction - A mom worried about how to prepare her kids for the world we live in - A woman wondering how to help her daughter-in-law with her parents To order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Lyrics of the Day: "Son of a Son of a Sailor" - Jimmy Buffett Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do I prepare my kids for the dangers of the world without scaring them? Yeah, where does the question come from? My whole family is in law enforcement. I grew up with my dad. Sweet. Yeah, yeah. I know a thing or two about this, Courtney, and my therapist loves it.

What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. The greatest mental health and emotional health and marriage relationship show ever. So says my mom. Actually, my mom doesn't even think that. I think she liked Frasier Crane better than me, but I say it and um, i'm on the internet. So it has to be true, right? Hey, um If you want to be on the show

We talk to real people who are going through real challenges and we will get to the bottom of it and figure it out If you want to be on the show, you may call 1-844-693-3291 Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask ASK. And it's here. It's here. You don't have to hear me begging you to buy this in presale anymore. Building a non-anxious life. My brand new book is out and it's everywhere.

It's on all the shops and sites and stores. If you want to help me out the most, where we get the biggest cut of it, you can go to johndeloney.com. But if you're an Amazon person or a Barnes & Noble person or a Target person, whatever it is, it is out in the world. Go pick up a copy, Building a Non-Anxious Life. I promise you, it's going to transform the way you and your loved ones and your kids and your family lives. And that's the goal here. We're going to change our lives.

And Kelly is back. Hi, is a kite. Yay for cold medicine. Dude. So you had COVID-6? Is that right? No, I had a head cold. Every time anyone gets a sniffle, you think it's COVID.

I know, but it ain't. Because it is. I think you've been. Because it is. I had a head cold. Really nasty head cold for a few days. But I'm back. You're cold.

You're cold. Spent some time up there and they're like, I think it's time for us to head out. This isn't a good place for us. Good job. I love a good boss who's diamond tapped out of her mind. No, like Dayquil. Dayquil. Dayman.

A little bit of the Nightquil. Hey, still left over. But love me some Dayquil. And some friendship and karate. And if that's a deep cut, and if you know what that's from, shoot me a DM and I'll send you something because that's awesome. Let's go out to San Francisco, California and talk to Jacob.

What's up, Jacob. Hey, John, thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. What's up, man?

Yeah. Um, I guess I'll get right into it. Uh, the last few years I've been struggling with, um, porn addiction. Tell me about it, man. Yeah. Hold on one second. Is that the first time you've said that out loud?

I think so, yeah. Yeah, thank you for sharing that, man. Yeah, of course. Did that feel weird and surreal to say that out loud? Well, I've written it down on paper a lot but um yeah that's the first time i set it up yeah well i'm i'm grateful that you um trusted me enough to to say that appreciate that uh so tell me tell me about the the origin story here man yeah so um i guess i'll walk you through the like how i got to this point and how it like the reason why I went to call and talk with you about this. Perfect, perfect. Yeah.

So earlier this year, I started reading your book, Own Your Past, Change Your Future. And I got to about halfway. And one of the questions I asked is, what are a few things that you did either growing up or in the recent past that haunt you

or that violate the person that you are? And for me, this is one of those things. How did you get started? Started as in like... I mean, if you go back and you pull the thread on your personal story, your personal history, when's the first time you were exposed to this that you knew, oh, I want to see that again. When I was 12. And it started off as just like regular pornography and then it

slowly got worse and worse throughout the years. I'd say it was worse when I was 15 or 16. And I'm still trying to get over the hump. It's worse than engaging in video chat pornography with other women online. Even as a 15 and 16 year old? Yes. Wow.

So much for the safeguards they talk, they're so proud of. Yeah. That it's just adults talking to adults. Yeah, that's tough, man. That is blowing out the hedonic sensor in your brain, man. That's a lot of freewheeling cheap dopamine circling up in that system. And is really really hard to just uh control all delete and walk away from

so what has happened recently that that you reached out usually people something has happened yeah what happened so uh recently i'm starting out my first semester of college. Oh, so you're 18 right now? Yeah, this is like my second week. Oh, wow. Okay. How's the first week going? Oh, man, it's so much fun. I really like it.

Very cool. Yeah, going great. Okay. So, this is week, you're into week two. What happened? Well, I think right now would be a good time to really, you know, be aggressive and try and get some work done on this and move forward. What does be aggressive look like for you? That looks like making progress,

putting in the hard work to end this addiction. Okay. I agree with the be aggressive part of what you said. That is counter to make progress. Okay. We're going to make progress on the cheap dopamine.

We're going to make progress on channeling some of this angst and loneliness and shame into productive behaviors okay but we are going to be aggressive about the external presenting problem as the is the way we say it in the nerd world okay okay what does that mean that means if you're going to get serious about this, you have to go scorched earth. And here's why. It's everywhere. It's everywhere.

It's everywhere. And so when you, like, when somebody is struggling with alcohol, when they have deemed themselves an alcoholic, they cannot have a beer, especially at the beginning. They can't go into a bar at the beginning. They can't go to a friend's house where they're serving alcohol at the beginning. Many of them can get there over time, but at the beginning, it is scorched earth.

What does scorched earth mean for you? That might mean getting rid of your phone or sharing apps with your parents. That might mean getting rid of your laptop, which makes college almost impossible. And you have to go to the school library to type on something or you have to borrow a laptop from the school. And what I'm saying sounds insane and people are going to be driving,

listening to this and roll their eyes. But I've sat with too many young people in your situation, dude, in college, in my Dean of Students offices at colleges across the country. And you are haunted, aren't you? I think so. Yeah. Fair or not fair? Absolutely fair.

So, do your parents have any idea that you're struggling so much? Or that you've been engaging in, I mean, live sex via Zoom, essentially, since you were 15 years old, 14 years old? Well, I think they knew at some point, but I don't think they knew just how bad it was. Were they thinking like with a playboy mindset? Like a lot of parents hear pornography and they think of the playboys that their friend's dad had under the bed

or their dad had under the bed. They don't have a psychology for oh no my son is talking to somebody in another country and she will do anything he asks her to and talk back to him the whole time right that is not in most parents psychology and you can do that from your freaking cell phone or your laptop in your bedroom. And you're saying I'm playing call of duty mom. And you're literally talking to a 24 year old woman in another country. That is an insanity and a madness that most parents don't understand is happening. Fair.

Fair. Okay. So two words that are really important to me when I'm sitting with somebody who is struggling with any sort of form of addiction. And my guess is you've tried to not do this on your own, right? Like you've said, I'm not doing this anymore. And you shut the laptop and you delete all the apps and you slowly found your way back. Is that fair? Yeah, that's definitely been the situation on and off over the last few years.

Okay. So the two words that always guide my conversations with folks is awareness and curiosity. So I'll just ask you, when are the times, if you look back and you could say, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. When are the times you have re-downloaded the apps? Anytime I've found like a loophole or some way to access the addiction. So like I'll give an example. So like last week I had an old Chromebook that I forgot I had. And I guess I was so desperate that I ended up using it. Um,

and then immediately after I threw it away. Well, I do agree with you that most Chromebooks should end up in the trash. I, we, we, we are in alignment there. Um,

man. So when somebody says I'm struggling with pornography I've got a porn addiction that's a spectrum but just you and me being honest you're way over your head aren't you I'm actually not quite sure

what that means that means you found your ways into some dark areas of the world through that computer haven't you yeah and you've seen some gnarly stuff haven't you yeah

have you reached out to a professional at this point Yeah. Have you reached out to a professional at this point? I have not. Okay. I need you to hear me super clear, okay? You're on a trajectory, a rocket ship to jail. You are particularly on a rocket ship to get yourself kicked out of college. Okay.

Okay. And I'm telling you that because I've investigated one step of where you are right now at the university level on multiple occasions. Okay. Yeah. Am I right? Yeah, I'm going to trust what you say. Okay. Yeah. You are on a dangerous path that's what i'm

telling you and if you haven't already you will be approached for things that because here's when you say you get desperate it's that pressure it builds and it builds and it builds and it builds and you will do anything like find an old computer and you will eventually end up on a school laptop or your neighbor's laptop or you will find yourself responding to a chat like hey if you think that was cool i got something for you or some call girl on the computer who says if you thought that was awesome click this link or call this number because they'll up the ante, and now you are way over your head. And so what I'm telling you right now is, and it doesn't happen. It happens so benign and so next step that suddenly people go,

oh, my, because I'm here. I have a computer full of child pornography. I have a computer full of really graphic, like disturbing pornography. I have a computer full of really graphic disturbing pornography if you're not already there in either of those situations. So here's what I'm telling you. Step one, when we get off this call, I want you to make an appointment with a male counselor at your college counseling

center today, right now. Got it? Okay. I want you to go be as open with that person as you are with me. And I want you to say the following words. I have an addiction to pornography, but it is not just images and it is not just movies. I have for the last three or four years

been in regular contact with live models and actors who will do what I say on screen. You have to start there with that level of honesty with your counselor, okay? Okay. That's step one. Step two, you need to see if you have a local SA. I think it's Sexaholics Anonymous. I don't know the exact verbiage.

They're in your hometown where you happen to be. I promise you do, and I promise you will exact verbiage, there in your hometown where you happen to be. I promise you do. And I promise you will not be the only college kid in that meeting. But you have to get into a place where you can say these things out loud. And it's important to see where this all can head. And it will also be important to see a group of men who are past you, who are older than you, wiser than you, who have completely taken ownership

back of their life. Okay? So that's two things. That's two sources of accountability. Here's the intentional stuff right in front of you. I want you to write this down and I want you to put this on your mirror.

I want you to put this by your bed. I want you to put this everywhere that you're going to see something. E-Y-D. Earn your dopamine. No more hacks. No more sideways attempts. If you want intimacy, sexual intimacy, connection, I have to go on a date.

I have to earn my dopamine. I got to ask somebody out and risk getting dumped. If I want to lose weight, I'm not just going to take a bunch of speed and a bunch of whatever pills. I'm going to go to the gym. If I'm going to do good on a test, I'm not going to cheat my way to that dopamine.

I'm going to study really hard. Earn your dopamine is, it's my buddy Michael Easter calls it the 2% rule. It is a intentional like way of doing life. I'm going to take the harder path because the harder path I take, the more extraordinary the result is on the other end of this thing.

Okay. But this is you. This is going to be a complete reframe. What does that look like in real life? Always take the stairs. Always. Even when you have to real life? Always take the stairs. Always. Even when you have to make two trips. Avoid the elevator.

Avoid the escalator. Always tip more than you think is appropriate. Always ask somebody if you can carry their bag. And that's probably not the world you've lived in for a long time, but this is a complete shift. Okay. The second thing is, is you're going to have to get really scorched earth

about your products. I mean, your digital access in your house. You can't control yourself at this moment in time. You can't. So you have to put so many hurdles in front of you. I'll go as far to say, if you need to step away from college for a semester and have no access to a computer, do that. I'll go as far to say, if you need to step away from college for a semester and have no access to a computer, do that.

I'll go as far to say, get rid of your smartphone and get a flip phone and act all cool about it. Like I'm just a hip, trendy, cool guy with the flip phone. Whatever you have to do. I just have had this conversation more times than I can count. You are over your head. You're over can count. You are over your head. You're over your head.

You're over your head. And I'll give you a quote from the great Brene Brown. Shame eats secrets for breakfast. Shame gathers its strength and power from secrets. That's why essay meetings and a counselor are going to be so crucial because I'm saying these things out loud. Shame will have no power over me anymore. And when you dispel shame, now you can actually get to the issues that drive you to some of this stuff, some of that impulse behavior. Then you're going to start becoming aware. Oh, every time I get in a fight with my mom or every

time I feel lonely, I just start to reach for the computer. Oh, okay. I'm going to become more aware and more aware. Why do I keep reaching for the computer? Ah, okay. I'm going to become more aware and more aware. Why do I keep reaching for the computer? Ah, okay. It's because I'm tired. It's because I haven't eaten well. It's because of any number of things. And then when you get that shred of awareness, as the great Dr. Judd Brewer says,

that's when behavior change can happen. That's it. That's going to take a minute. And what I don't want you to do is get yourself over your head even more. Get yourself arrested. Continue this path of hurting the women on the other end of this stuff. And if you want to go do a deep dive into the women on the, especially those in other countries on the other end of these webcam things,

it's madness. Now I know the OnlyFans is a whole other conversation we can have, but nobody wins, man. I will say this. I'm really proud of you for calling, Jacob. Really proud of you for calling. I think you got to college and saw all these incredible friends that you're going to make and started seeing people that,

I think I want to be like this. And you knew you had this looming, terrifying secret in the closet. And I'm proud of you for opening the closet door and saying no more. It'll be a tough, tough road. Pornography's everywhere. And every phone, every computer, everywhere. So you're going to be swimming upstream, my brother. But I promise you can do it. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if

we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself

and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a

short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to the Oklahoma City and talk to Courtney. What's up, Courtney? Hello. What's up? I'm just almost at kids. That sounds par for the course these days, man.

That sounds to be the way it is right now. They are lucky to have you. What's up? I was calling because I had a question for you. Basically, how do I prepare my kids for the dangers of the world without scaring them too much, basically? Where does the question come from? My whole family is in law enforcement.

I grew up with my dad. Sweet. Yeah, yeah. I know a thing or two about this, Courtney, and my therapist loves it. So my dad's a police officer. My brother decided to get a family gig. And then I married my high school sweetheart. And he went through the Highway Patrol Academy when we've been married for 12 years.

And he's been a Highway Patrolman our whole marriage as well. So it's just, it's in the blood. What do you do for a living? I'm an nurse practitioner. Oh my gosh, really? Yeah. So your kids have a cop and a nurse practitioner as parents? Yeah.

I'm trying to traumatize them over here. Have you rubber-padded the house yet um no but we're there i'm the person that takes the whole backpack of medical supplies with us gosh there's always that mom and it's courtney um so do you know my background at all yes i listen to you every chance i get okay all right so i'm excited to talk to you you've probably you probably heard me talk about this, but my old man was a homicide detective

and he was a SWAT hostage negotiator. So, same thing, right? And he would, because he loved me, no mistake about it, because he loved me, he would go to work

and on the family desk he would put Polaroids, because we didn't have digital cameras back then, of guys getting out of jail that he had helped put away and he would say, hey, these guys may get out and come looking for me. If they knock on the door, don't answer.

Yeah. And I remember growing up being like, okay. And so every time somebody rang the doorbell, I was like, this is it, right? This is the one. So in his attempt to love me, and by the way, well, we'll get to that in a second. His attempt to love me, it created quite the nervous system, right?

Yeah. And I still to this day cannot enter a restaurant without sitting with my back against the wall. So weird. I can't. I can't do it. If I don't sit that way, I just feel like I am

or whatever. Oh dude. Hey, I didn't know that everybody didn't walk in and look at all the exits when they walk in any room anywhere. Nope. That's not normal. I didn't know that until I saw my first counselor and she's like, you're insane. Right. Um, and so I, I want to, and I did research on the mental health of medical practitioners. And so y'all are just a barrel of monkeys too, right? Yeah. For fun. Just talk is real great. Yes, it is. It's actually, you have to have that. And actually your sense of humor gets so, so dark because you have to right you have to i get that and that's fantastic the challenge is um here's the way i describe it about about my dad it shifted his entire bell curve of the world and here's what i mean by that

you and me courtney we're in oklahoma city we're walking down a dark alley and we're heading to an opera together because you're into opera. That's super weird. I wanted to go to the Pantera show, but no, Courtney had to go to opera. So we're going down the, down the alley to go to opera. And another person is walking towards us.

99, 999 times out of a thousand. They just walk by us. 998, 999th time. They're like, Hey, I got two front row seats to the opera.

You don't want them? And we're like, yeah, that would be great. And then the thousandth time, they pull out a hatchet and chop me and you up in little pieces. Right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. My dad's job, 100% of his life was that thing that never happens to anybody. Because it's not if, it's when.

That's correct. And so I got a ticket the other day because I was driving way too fast. And the guy pulled me over. I smiled. He caught me. I was breaking the law. I handed him my stuff. I was like, well done, man. And he looked at me kind of weird and I go, I was going way too fast. I know that. You know that. And he smiled, went back, wrote me a ticket and I was on my way. And that's the majority of the interactions. But your husband has seen all the training videos and he's been involved in a few.

And his shop talk is that one time it happened to that guy and that one time it happened to that guy and suddenly it's happening to all of us, right? Yeah. How old are your kids? Eight, five and almost two. Oh, geez, Louise, on a stick.

Okay. So I'm going to tell you how it's happened, how I've tried to, the way I'm trying to do it right now, okay? And you can just take this for what this is. Two big phrases. Actually, one phrase. There's the share, don't scare.

Have you heard that statement? Yes. Okay. Um, two big phrases, actually one phrase there's the share. Don't scare. Have you heard that statement? Yes. Okay. I do think that if you have a police officer as a dad, as a highway patrolman and a nurse practitioner, as a mom, you get a really unique, beautiful, powerful insight into how the world works and things that could happen. And I think that's actually really amazing. And it would be a tragedy to hide that from your kids.

Yeah. The other side of that is, there is, hey, any number of 12 guys who are getting out of jail might murder you. Hashtag just saying. There's that. Or there is,

hey, we don't answer the door when mom and dad are gone. We just don't do that. Daddy works with really scary people. Mom helps people who have had really scary things happen to them. We just don't open the door for people, period. And there's a big difference there. Here's another example with my 13-year-old son. I talk about this all the time.

We go to Waffle House. What I don't talk about enough, and I probably should, is we have a 911 rule. Me and my wife, me and my kids, that they know if I say, hey, this is 911, walk out that door right now. There's no questions. There's no talking. There's no anything. They head out that door. And I had that recently. Somebody came in and they were messed out of their minds. And it was enough that I went, oh, this ends badly for everybody in this tiny little restaurant. And I looked at my son and said, this is a 911 moment. If I tell you to go into the kitchen and walk out that back door, don't ask any questions.

You walk out that back door. And he said, yes, sir. And I thought we had a moment. And I said, this is 911. Head out the front door. Go. And he, I mean, dude, to his credit, he got up and just started, yes, sir. And I thought we had a moment and I said, this is 911, head out the front door, go. And he, I mean, dude, to his credit, he got up and just started heading out the door. And as he headed out the door, of course, the guy got up to go to kind of cut us off a little bit. And that allowed me to intervene. And I gently intervened and he didn't have the money to pay for his food. And I paid for his food and I said, Hey, it happens to all of us. I think it's

time for us to go. And it ended very peacefully. Yeah. And then I was able to debrief that. But what I had in place was not, hey, those guys at those restaurants are going to kill you. So that my son walks in and scans every restaurant. And also, I put him in a position and kind of, I mean, probably not the best place to take your kid, right? And I took him there because I feel comfortable.

I feel safe. And I've got a plan with him. And then we debriefed. And that was the important part on the back end. Hey, you saw this thing. I want you to know, like, here's why I did what I did. Here's what I would have done if his head had gotten sideways. And you, I'm so proud of you because the smartest thing you could do is take yourself out of

the situation and not try to be John Wick, right? You see what I'm saying? Like, it's coming up with a plan on the back end. And I think it's okay to say they're scary people. If something happened, yeah, I was going to say, if something happened that you were like, oh no. Well, I, so I also have had a legit stalker. And so like, I'm always like, lock the door,

shut the house, like put the alarm on. And I think that I've put that fear of that situation even though he's not around right now um on to my kids too and so I don't want them to be fearful like there's a boogeyman behind us but at the same time like be safe and the reason I brought this up was because I heard my eight-year-old saying something to my five-year-old that I was like oh I did that to you I'm sorry. What was it? I can't remember the specifics, but it was just like, we have to make sure that the alarms line, we have to make sure that the doors are locked and we have to be beside mom all the time at the restaurant. Like he was very specific on like all the rules that I

have. And I just don't want her to have that dampness on the world. Yeah. The glasses, the dark glasses on that me and my husband do. Yes. Because she's just a kid. But I don't want to minimize that y'all also have the light too. And I think whenever I work with police officers and I work with police groups and I work with medical professionals and med students, I always want to make sure they don't miss the light because they see that too. Yeah. Because you've seen some insane recoveries. Oh yeah. Even when

somebody has passed away, you've seen families come together in waiting rooms that probably still gives you goosebumps if you thought about it, right? And your husband has seen people who were out of their mind on drugs get well and come by and say, hey, I just want you to know I'm doing great. He's seen that too. And he's pulled people over and probably kept them from hurting themselves or killing themselves. And so there's light too. It's just that often in these professions, there's so much darkness, we miss it. Right. And so- They've seen a guy at a restaurant come up to my husband and say, thanks for saving me. Yes, exactly. And it's easy to go, yeah, I was doing my job. Hey, where's the exit,

right? It's easy just to blow that off. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. That's equally as valid. That's light. And that guy that pulled me over, I've been much more careful. And so he did his job. I didn't. And now I'm being more careful. He may have saved countless other people for me being an idiot driver. You see what I'm saying? So there's light there too. What I think is important to let your kids know is not so much that the world is out to get you,

which in a weird way it is, right? It is. But mommy gets nervous about some things. So here's another example. It's kind of unrelated, but it is related. I am terrified comically,

like insanely pathologically of heights. Like a second story, like at my neighbor's house on the second story, I don't like it. I don't like looking over the rail. I put myself up against the wall. And so when my kids run up and lean over, cause they have no fear of anything, I will grab their shirt and I will look at them and they'll turn and go, dad. And I'll say, hey, this is just for your old man. This is just for me because I'm nuts. And they'll go, okay, dad.

Now, I have sat with a family after somebody fell off of something really high. It's not just for me, but mostly it's just for me, right? And so it's both and. I think it's coming up with the plan and letting them know, oh, hey, the lights, I mean, the locks and the alarms, that's mom. That's just for me. Nobody's coming in the house, guys.

Nobody's coming in the house. If they do, there's a plan, but nobody's coming in the house, guys. This is just for mom. This is just for mom. This is just for me. I like whenever dad's gone, I like sleeping with it, like with all the stuff on and letting them know, oh, mom's a little bit out there, but we'll do that for mom. And they will slowly start to see this. And if you see somebody who's choking in a restaurant, you see somebody who's been hurt. The other day, Josephine came home and I was telling something to my wife. My daughter came home or came up on the porch where we were talking

and she said, dad, why do you look like that? In her classic Josephine way. And I said, I had a really hard day. I had to talk to somebody whose kid is very, very sick and it made me sad. That's all. I didn't tell them that somebody that I care about and loves kid has cancer and it's terminal and it's scary. I just said, somebody's got a kid and it's sick and it made me very, very sad because I don't think kids are supposed to get sick like that. And she crawled up in my lap. And so she knows, I told her, she knows. And also I never once expressed that dad's out of control and number two um i let her know like i got emotions and i get sad too but i don't want her wearing the emotions of my

house and i think you had that experience with your kids like hey we gotta lock this thing up they're starting to absorb the fear and the fear is becoming theirs not yours and i think it's important to take ownership of that fear back and all police officers all nurses all doctors everybody i think it's always going to be attention between my kids got to know they got to know what it's like out there and also not over um explaining things before they're ready to hear them right and that's a scary place to be but that's the world we're in and i'll just call with this. Thank you. Thank you and your husband for pulling over idiots like me who are perfect too. Get this one perfect too. Your kids are resilient and they're going to be tough and they're going to have their issues because dad was a cop and mom was a medical professional. And also, man, they won the lottery with you too. It's amazing. We'll be right back.

All right, let's go out to North Carolina and talk to Melissa. What's up, Melissa? Hey, Dr. John. Thank you for taking my call. I love your show. Thank you so much. I appreciate you calling. What's up? Well, so we have a new situation in our family.

My husband and I have been married almost 30 years, and we have five adult kids. That's a lot of people. Yes, yes, it's great though. Um, so homeschool family and, um, we're very close. Um, we're Christian family and, um, you know, we're kind of always in our kids ears and, you know, trying to guide them and shape them even in their adult life. So how very helicoptery of you. Yes. I'm sure they never go out for chips and queso to talk about,

God, did mom call you too? That never happens. So good. Okay. All the time. It's like you already live here. So yes, you have nailed me perfectly already. So good.

Good. All right. So what's up? So recently, none of them have been me perfectly already. So good. Good. All right. So what's up? Recently, none of them have been married. Okay. I wonder why. I wonder why. Was anyone ever good enough for Mama Melissa?

Well, you know, I always told my kids when I was raising them, we didn't do the boyfriend-girlfriend thing. I always said to the boys, I said, you don't need a girlfriend until you need a wife. And to my girls, I said, you don't need a boyfriend until you need a husband. Meaning let's not like do this, you know, in, you know, second grade, so-and-so like so-and-so like, I just, I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to put that on them. And I just kind of wanted to shape them to really think about their future spouses. And as they got older, my husband and I met in youth group. We've been joined at the hip since we were 15 and 16. And we're best friends. We're very united front.

And as the kids got older and into teen years and stuff, I'd say, you know, you guys really need to think about what characteristics you want in your future spouses and, you know, all of that. See how they act with their parents. See what their parents' relationship is like. You know, make sure your spiritual values are similar. You know, all of this, right? Well, our fourth child, who is a boy, joined the Marine Corps when he was just shy of 18, and he just entered his fifth year of service. And lucky us, we're stationed pretty close. He's stationed pretty close to home. He met a girl online and fell madly in love. And they eloped. Very quickly.

Very quickly. In fact, it's kind of a situation like she kind of like. I can't help it. Yeah, go ahead. It's hilarious. Your lack of. It's hilarious. It's not. But your lack of approval is so endearing.

It's so endearing. Oh. Well, he totally shocked me. Right. Of course. Right. So. Hold on. Okay. It's so endearing. Oh. Well, he totally shocked me. Right? Of course. Right? Hold on. Okay.

I have to say this. I know this isn't about the call, but I have to just say this out loud. Is that okay? Go. Go. And I hesitate to do this because I don't want you

to hold on to it. So can I just have this opinion and we can get off the phone and you can go, that guy's stupid. Is that cool? You say what you want to say. Okay.

I'm ready this exact moment is why i think it's very important for kids to date because there's not a reference point physiologically in their bodies for love for for that ooey googooey feeling, that tsunami of emotion. And if they are old enough to, it's kind of like, I want my kid to roller skate, and I want my kid to ride a bike, and I want my kid to ride shotgun in a golf cart or a four-wheeler before they ever get in a car. Because if I just, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 21, here's your car. I can do whatever I want, go wherever I want, I can drive wherever I want. It wait, wait, wait, wait, 21, here's your car.

Like I can do whatever I want to go wherever I want. I could drive wherever. It's a lot, right? So it's so, it's not a common for hold. It's like drinking a glass. And you know, the ice is at the bottom said the old Dimitri Martin joke. It's just fantastic. The ice sits at the back, back, back, back. And then it all just dumps in your face.

It's like this, right? Like don't date, don't date, don't date. I found someone online. She says, I love you. And it's like, let's get married right now. And it's just this whoosh. And all of a sudden, it's like, no! And you've lost it.

My second favorite thing is when you said, he totally shocked me. And I want to tell you, the unbridled passion of a child can't be held by their parents. It can't be held. And in fact, you don't actually want that. I think you want to protect your kid from any sort of hurt ever they're going to have.

And by doing so, you rob them of all of their joy too. All of that wildness, all that I did it on my own, all of that crazy. And that becomes about you, not about them. all of their joy too. All of that wildness, all that I did it on my own, all of that crazy. And that becomes about you, not about them. But that, so every kid you have, I hope they shock you.

That's what kids are supposed to do. Because we're not, we didn't, they weren't little puppies that we trained to not pee in the house, right? These are wild men and women that we are releasing into the world with our love and with our,

the lessons we taught them and our values. And they're going to come up with their own. Oh, you see what I'm saying? It's a terrifying enterprise. And here we are. Okay. So I just interrupted you just to get, I had to get that out of my system. So we're back now. No, it's good. And, and I agree. And, um, this girl is girl number three in his life. So he's only dated two other girls. So to your point,

I get it. But it's in the past. We can't change that. So here we are. Exactly. So he eloped. He got married. Pretty much she did not enjoy her home life. She's younger. She's 18.

She'll be 19 in a couple months. So didn't really love being at home met this handsome guy online uh flew to north carolina um i got he brought her over on sunday and then i i think they were married by tuesday right? And they had this wedding person. So very whirlwind, right? So he shows up on Wednesday, the next day with a wedding ring on. And I'm like, Hey, what's that? We're at a Mexican restaurant eating chips and queso. And I was like, dude, what's that? And he's like, Oh yeah, mom, dad, we went to the courthouse yesterday and we got married. And I was like, what? I would have paid money to have been at that table

just to watch that happen. I jumped up, and I hugged my new daughter-in-law. Oh, good for you. Hey, I'm proud of you for that. That's huge. Good for you. Good for you. Well, I mean, look.

That's awesome. Yes, helicopter mom, totally. But also, you're great. And that's what I told her while I was, oh, what I told her while I was hugging her is I said, you know, since before he was born, I have prayed for his future spouse. And I'm so glad he found you. Wow. Was I scared to death? I absolutely was scared to death.

But that is the truth, and that's my heart. And here's the cool thing. That's awesome. I'm glad you didn't lean into her ear and whisper while you were hugging her, I'm going to kill you. That's what Kelly would have done. So good for you. Good for you.

No, no, no. And here's the really cool thing is I really do love her. I've only known her for a couple months now, but she's awesome. Okay. Like, she's awesome. She is young. So what's the catch? What's the catch? There's a catch here. What is it? Here's the catch. Yeah, here's the catch. Here's where I need some help. Her, as you can imagine, her relationship with her mom and dad is not great.

She did not tell them that they were married until just a few weeks ago. Her parents have basically said, don't come back home until you're divorced. They want nothing to do with my son. They want nothing to do with our family. They have actually since moved to the state, so they're fairly close. They're not in the same city, but they're fairly close. And here's where I need some advice. told her that I would, I'm very close with my mom and I have said, family is very important and I want you to be able to reconcile with your mom and dad. I'm not trying to, you know, push, but whenever she would come to me to talk about them, I would just say, you know, I'm sorry, you're going through this. I really hope that one day you guys can reconcile because I think you want

your mom and dad in your life. I think parents play a key part. They do, but I'd be very careful about saying that and here's why. There may be highways of abuse that you don't know about. And when people tell somebody who's's been an abusive situation or an ugly situation often people who have experienced that especially 18 or 19 year olds they let that stuff out centimeter by centimeter and it starts with yeah i didn't want to be at home home was really rough i didn't like it there that is them slowly testing the waters is this okay okay to talk? Is this a safe place? And when people are like, man, you really need to go back to your family. You're going to miss them.

They start to feel insane. Right? And so I think your heart is beautiful. You had a great relationship with your mom. And that was super important to you. Sometimes the greatest relationship between a mom and a daughter is a severed one because mom was brutal to me. And it doesn't surprise me that she comes to you, somebody who is super smart, super fun, who loves her husband as much as she does, if not way more. And who is,

I mean, you, you are, you sound so grounded and rooted in who you are. Right. And so, um, for her, somebody who might have come from a troubled home. And again, I'm projecting into her world. Her parents might've just wanted to have a curfew at 18 and she's like, I'm getting married. And so who knows? Right. But if I may, if I can inject here, she has said she feels that she has an older brother who's in therapy that has, this is just word of mouth, but brother has said that the therapist has told him that the parents are emotionally abusive and narcissistic. And so when I had told her, boy, I hope that one day you can reconcile with healthy boundaries. Sure. That's right. That's right.

But that reconciliation at this point will never be hers to own because it's her mom and dad who walked away from her. She didn't run away from them. She got married as an adult, a very, very young adult. But they looked at her and said, we are breaking up with you. And so I think that I hope y'all can reconcile what boundaries someday is. I hope your mom sees what an amazing young woman you are. Oh, that's good. Okay.

One day, the woman I'm seeing standing before me right now, who makes my son light up like a Christmas tree, I hope one day your mom sees how amazing you are because i see it that's different than okay i hope y'all can reconcile someday because every kid goes through a season and that lasts well into adulthood for folks especially in abusive situations of asking the of their you've heard this it sounds so woo and cheesy but it's not that little nine-year-old kid inside of you going what was so bad about me are you so mean to me or why did you care more about your phone or care more about your job what was so wild in your life that you hit me all the time like whatever the thing is right and so um i don't ever want her to own that

her parents looked at her and they said because of your choice we abandon you until you make different choice and that could be marriage that could be um that could be job that could be because she's doing drugs that could be any number of, but mom and dad are the ones that walked out. And they gave her a boundary. And the boundary is you will divorce that military guy. And she's not going to do that. They have done what I think is an unforgivable sin for parents. And that is force their child to choose them or their spouse.

That's a brutal decision. And what you did, I hope all the parents listening, what you did in that restaurant, the number of times I've met with a parent who has said, especially I was working in the universities, whatever conversation, my kid came home and said, X, my kid came home and said, Y, my kid came home and said, they've been struggling home and said Y. My kid came home and said, they've been struggling with this. They said, I would do anything to have that moment back because I didn't handle it right. And you did. Melissa, that's amazing.

The fact that you got up and your first move was a hug, even though inside your heart had melted and was leaking out your feet, that's amazing. And by the way, when your kids get older, you can tell them that because you get a moment too. Here's what, here's like, so all, all kumbaya side, here's the big picture. You had a very clear picture of what your like later adult years were going to look like. And it was going to be your sons would marry beautiful girls who would look

like X or Y and your daughters would marry beautiful boys who look like X and Y and all of y'all's family would vacation together and y'all would hang out. And it was good. And that wasn't your picture to paint. And so there's going to be a true grief that you have because you have been a parent who's tried to control every variable since they were zero and now you turn these amazing men onto the world one of whom is already dedicated half a half a decade to service of other people and he's a wildcat man he's out there out there. And so you're going to have to grieve that picture

because her parents don't want anything to do with you, and you can't fix that because you didn't do anything wrong. Okay, and that's the picture I think that I'm grieving. It is. I love her for him, and I love their story, and I think the longer their marriage lasts,

the cooler their story is going to become. Absolutely. It's like a Nicholas Sparks romance novel developing. Or one of Kelly's murder podcasts. It could go either way. It could go either way. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding.

I'm totally playing. But you're right. This could be a beautiful story, but it's theirs, not yours. Yeah. But you're right, because my husband and I met at a Baptist church, and his parents are friends with my parents and we don't vacation

together, but we could. And so the second part of my question was not just how, like, should I stop suggesting that she reconcile? Like what should be my words to her, which thank you. That's perfect. I love that. But the second part was I haven't made contact or tried to make contact with her mom and dad. I actually did meet her dad. He showed up at our house to check on her, which I don't know. I kind of, I gave him props for that. How was that meeting? You know, it was okay. A little awkward.

My husband is law enforcement. So, you know, we have a police cruiser in the car and he showed up and knocked on the door. And he said he was very nervous. But this was shortly after she had come down here. And they just wanted to lay eyes on her because she had really put just a hard stop. She wasn't responding to texts or calls or anything. And one day if my daughter Josephine listens to this, if she ran off and got on a plane and married somebody at 18, I can guarantee you I would be on that front porch the following day.

Of course. Right. So good for that guy. Yeah. Good for him. And I told her, I said, you know, I give him props for coming. I'm sure that, you know, but he just wants to make sure you're okay. And I get that. And, um, so, you know, we weren't hugging when he showed up, but I mean, we were all very cordial. He, he did shake hands with my son at this point. He didn't know that they were married and she didn't want to tell him. So it was just some layers of awkwardness, but, um, I would run it through her. I'd run it through her and say, I am feeling this, this,

this sense inside of my mom heart that I want to reach out to your parents, let them know that you're safe and that you're doing amazing. And that if they ever want to connect, we'd love to connect with them. Um, and she might tell you, please, please do not do that. And at least in this season, I would honor that. Okay. Or she might say, you can do whatever you want. But I would, again, what you're giving her is something she may have never had, which is an older adult who trusts her. And that you are in a weird way practicing your new relationship with her.

And that is you going first saying, I'll trust you. Here's what I think is the right thing to do. I think married parents at least need to wave and say hi to each other and shake hands. So I'm feeling this mom sense to do that. I want you to sit down with you. I also think it would be a beautiful thing as much as possible. This is pie in the sky,

but if y'all live in the same community, it'd be awesome if just you and her once a month set up a breakfast together. Because she's a kid. She's a kid, right? So I guess I didn't tell you right now they are living at my home until he gets his base housing set up. Yeah, that's great.

So I have lots of access. But don't have too much access. Actually, you know what? You have as much as you want because they're in your house. That's what they get for getting married and then moving into their mom's house. Yeah. And it's temporary. They don't plan on being here long.

Base housing takes a while to get, um, get set up, but, um, things are going well, but like they have their own space. And so,

you know, we might come together, you know, I get to see her every day, you know, she's found a job already. I mean, she's really doing amazing.

So I, but you're going to, you are going to be moved by the run-ins, what I call accidental community. You're going to be moved by the hallway interactions in the early morning at the coffee pot interactions. What that little girl's desperate for, she's not a little girl, she's 18, but she's a little girl. What that young woman is desperate for is another adult to sit across a breakfast room table and say, tell me, tell me about it. Yeah. A focused, because what you're giving her right now is Twitter bites and what she needs is a story. She needs a book. And I don't think she's ever had

that. Yeah. That, that kind of connects some dots because she's been just very, very open with me. She's so desperate for love from her mom. Yeah. That isn't there. It was so funny. Shortly after they got married, maybe three, four weeks after they had gotten married and were here, my husband and I had, um, it wasn't really an argument, but you know, we had like, the house was kind of a mess. We'd just gotten back from a trip and there was stuff everywhere. And I was like, look, dude, this is his father had given him a bunch of like football

stuff. Like we're big Michigan football fans. I was like, there's stuff in like eight. Oh, go blue. There's something like eight rooms in the house. I work from home. I was like, there's stuff in like eight. Oh, go blue. There's stuff in like eight rooms of the house. I work from home. I was like, look, dude, I have got to have help. We need to get this stuff. I need it put somewhere. And he was like, I don't know why you're getting upset with me. And I was like, dude, I'm not upset. I'm just saying I need help. We need to contain this and put it somewhere because I got to get back to work tomorrow. And it's just, you know, the dogs. And I was like, this is just crazy. And my older daughter is here. And my husband has said, I just don't know why you're yelling at me. And I say, Katie, am I yelling? I don't feel like I'm yelling. And Katie says, well, mom,

you know how when you ask dad, why is he yelling? And we know that dad's kind of annoyed and he's not really yelling, but we get where you're coming from. She's like, yeah, you're doing that. And I was like, oh, okay. All right, family. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to raise my voice. I'm not trying to yell. I just need everyone to help me get this stuff put up.

My daughter-in-law looked up and she said, wait, someone's yelling? Who's fighting? Like, what? What's going on up and she said, wait, someone's yelling? Who's fighting? Like, what? What's going on? Because she said at home, things are flying through the air and profanity is flying and divorce is being threatened and just all sorts of nonsense. So let me say this. My wife said this the other day and it was instructive and I'll leave you say this. My wife said this the other day, and it was instructive, and I'll leave you with this. She had a really stressful couple of days doing some stuff,

and she's in the middle of a huge, she's finishing up her book, and she's editing. It's just a wild season for her. And I was sitting on the couch, which is something I hardly ever do. I just plopped on the couch, and she said, hey, I'm going to turn a show on because I need to borrow some of your nervous system for a while Because I was super chill And I laughed and said you got it and she leaned way. I mean burrowed in like a puppy does and

After the show was over like 45 minutes or however long the show was she's like, ah, thanks And I want you to keep that in your mind, that this little girl, I keep calling her a little girl. She's an 18, 19, 20-year-old woman. This woman needs to borrow your nervous system for a while. She needs a new picture, speaking of new pictures, of what a functioning house looks like, of what a disagreement between two people who are committed to the end of time to each other looks like.

Clean up your football stuff. What football stuff? Why are you yelling? I'm not yelling. And you both love each other. And it's a matter of what pile goes where, not a matter of, can I sleep in this house tonight? And so she's going to be borrowing your nervous system. You're going to be painting a picture for her of what marriage could look like because she does not have a good picture of what marriage can look like. And it will be 100% to be expected that the first fight she gets in with your son, that she flies off the handle

because that's what she knows. That's what her body knows. And you're giving her another picture and another picture. And if you set up a once a month or once every two weeks breakfast together, not at home, but in a different geographic location,

you'll sit down and you talk and you listen way more than you talk and just hear her story and look her in the eye and let her know that she's loved. And okay, man, you're talking about, that is generational change now. But for the time being, I would run it through. And by the way, it's okay to tell them this.

Hey guys, I had a picture of what your courtship and marriage would look like. This wasn't it. So we get a minute. And I've told countless 18 to 25-year-olds, hey, you just blew up your whole parents' world with who you married or who you're in love with. That's great, but they get a minute too. And so I think it's fair to say we did not have on our radar a weekend romantic marriage to someone you met on the internet.

That wasn't our picture. And it wasn't our picture to draw, but we drew one anyway. So we get a minute. We're figuring this out too. You get to say that also. But for the time being, I would run that through her daughter. And I would tell her, say the words, I trust you right now. My mom instinct says, I'm going to reach out to your parents and try to make an olive branch on the table and connect with them. But I trust you. You think that's a good idea or not a

good idea. And let's go from there. Let's go from there. Um, man, they're really lucky to have you. You sound like a pretty awesome, pretty awesome mom who loves her kids. Probably love them a little too much, but you love your kids and that's amazing. It's awesome. Awesome that you called. Thank you so much. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back as we

wrap up today's show. I know this episode is coming out a little bit late, but this is homage to the great Jimmy Buffett who passed right around the time we were recording this show. And Kelly picked these lyrics and they go like this. Why don't we get...

I'm just kidding. Son of a son of a sailor. As the son of a son of a sailor, I went out on the sea for adventure, expanding their view of the captain and crew Like a man just released from indenture Addentures

His teeth fell out, I guess As a dreamer of dreams and a traveling man I've chalked up many a mile Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks And I've learned much about from both of their styles Son of a son of a son of a sailor Son of a gun loaded the last ton one step ahead of the jailer. I'm having a cheeseburger in paradise

today. Shout out, JB. Love you guys. We'll see you soon.