The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m Constantly Scared I Will Make My Baby Sick

Episode Date: September 9, 2022

Today, we hear from a new mom struggling with contamination OCD concerning her baby, a woman wondering how to reconcile with her in-law after deeply offending her, and a woman whose ex wants nothing to do with their son. Lyrics of the Day: "Who Let The Dogs Out:" - Baha Men Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My future sister-in-law feels rejected after we asked her not to bring their dog to our one-year-old's birthday party. It sounds simple, but unfortunately it's kind of blown up in our face. No, it's not simple at all because you're dealing with madness. We are live right now, but you're hearing this like a month from now. So I'm live, you're not. And I'm so glad that we've connected

some way across the internet and across the YouTubes and the podcasts and evidently the TikToks now, all of them, all of them. So glad that you're with us on the world's greatest parenting relationship, mental health, marriage show ever. Dr. John Deloney's show. I'm so glad that you're with us. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. And you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask.

We've got a fun show today. Let me know a couple of these calls. And I'm looking forward to it. And this is our second go. Because the first time we started the show, Ben on the board did not hit the record button. But now we're recording. I appreciate you

mentioning that. One of the things I love to do is to make myself feel better by pointing out other people's flaws. It's just an operating strategy for me. It seemed to work just fantastic so far. Oh, man. All right, let's go to Emily in

Boise. What's up, Emily? Hi, how are you? I'm so good. How about you? I'm doing pretty good. Excellent. What's up? All right.

So I guess a little back story. I found out I was pregnant last year at the end of July. Okay. And it was almost like the day I found out I was pregnant, a light switch went off in my brain. And I became, like like so scared of everything. I think coming out of the pandemic, they're like, don't trust me. Don't touch anything. Don't do anything.

You're going to get sick. And then pregnancy, they're like, don't eat anything. Don't do anything. Because not only will you get sick, your baby will get sick. So then I had really intense like OCD symptoms kind of develop stronger and stronger, stronger throughout my pregnancy. And then I gave birth and everything was okay for a little bit. And like, I'm not as scared about like bacterias and getting sick, but I still have like OCD tendencies. So scared he's going to get like lead poisoning or anything like that.

So anyway, so I have like these compulsions and behaviors that I do to like prevent it. And I try to challenge them and remind myself like your logical brain knows that your baby likely won't get lead poisoning. But if I don't wash my hands before I feed him, or if I don't do this or this, then he will. So my question is, how do I determine the difference between like OCP thoughts and anxiety versus like my actual like mother's intuition? Ooh, that's a good question. Um, can I ask you a few questions back first? Yeah. Okay. Rarely, and I mean super rare, is like you talked about the light switch.

Does that happen outside of any sort of historical context? So when was the first time you experienced anxiety or intense anxiety or some sort of repetitive OCD-ish symptoms. And I'm talking about like as a kid, as a 14-year-old. Has this been your whole life? It's my whole life. Okay. Yeah, I have memories of even as like a little, little kid being scared. Okay.

Where did those come from? Where did what come from? Where did the idea that I can, I can make a path of safety for myself moving through the world by controlling everything. I have to control everything so that I can be okay. When did that story pop into your head or who gave you that story? Um, I don't know I know so another little history thing is I had an eating disorder for a long time and was in and out of

treatment and so I don't I don't struggle with that at all anymore like it's almost like a complete past self but when I've talked about it with the new OCD with like my family they're like it's almost like you traded one for the other one form of control I would say the same thing. It's, it's still the underlying, the underlying, I don't use the word pathology because I don't know you in that context,

but the underlying challenges I can, can, I can white knuckle. I can grab the steering wheel so tight that it can never turn no matter the matter of the terrain I'm driving over. And we all know that's not true or real. So most of us let go. Some of us grab one even tighter, right? And we end up with elbow issues and shoulder issues. And then we go to the doctor and say, hey, my shoulder hurts. And they give us some sort of injection, some cortisone, or they give us shoulder surgery. And really the problem is we're hanging onto that wheel too tight, right? So back and all the way out at some point, either that was the way you stayed safe as a kid, because you grew up in a house of chaos, or you had people that were right

next to you, but they were involved in other, they were busy doing other things. And so you were trying to figure out how I can, like, what was wrong with you? And you took control of that relationship that shouldn't have been yours to control of, or you're in an abusive situation as a kid. We can unwind it for a long way. Even something as simple. So my dad, one of the things he used to tell me was, hey, every decision, every choice you make in life, you're throwing a giant rock into a lake

and you never know where the rings of that lake, of that rock hitting the water, where they're going to wash up on, on shore, even if it's across the lake and you're responsible for where those rings wind up. So be careful about every rock you throw. And that was great wisdom. And I did not know how to compute that. So I got paralyzed by every decision because I would be like, well, I got to play 70 different scenarios out here. Right. And I ended up doing nothing. And so that's one of those, even, even my dad was great intention, right? He was giving me a gift. Also, it wasn't a benign gift. Right. So let's fast forward all the way till now.

Okay. Intuition, um, is most often a set of, is our body remembering something? Okay. So either your body's remembering that you were out of control once or it was remembering a time that you read or saw something. So I don't want you to overthink intuition. Does that make sense? I don't want you to romanticize intuition. Yeah. I don't want you to overthink intuition. Does that make sense? I don't want you to romanticize intuition. Yeah, I think the fear is like, what, like, hypothetically, and I logically know he likely won't get lead poisoning, but he does get lead poisoning, and it's traced back to something that I did. And then it's like, I should have known better. I thought about it, and I chose not to because I was challenging an OCD thought, but actually that

thought was not OCD. It was real. There's not a difference. Take diagnostics off the table. They're really confusing. They're muddying up your next step. Okay. I wouldn't think like, is this an anxious thought or is this an OCD thought or is this a real thought? I wouldn't think like that at all. Your thoughts are your thoughts are your thoughts. Okay. I wouldn't think like, is this an anxious thought? Or is this an OCD thought? Or is this a real thought? I wouldn't think like that at all. Your thoughts are your thoughts are your thoughts. Okay. And so stop trying to pull them apart and splice them and dice them. Just simply sit for a moment and say,

if I don't wash my hands, is my kid gonna get lead poisoning? No. And your body will feel it. And then you can say, hey, thank you for taking care of me. Thank you for sounding all the alarms. I'm a good mom and I got this. And what you're doing is you are letting go of the wheel

instead of tightening your grip on it. Letting go doesn't mean you make bad choices or ding-dong choices or you go rub your hands in cow manure and then go feed. That's not what you're doing here. But you're also recognizing we might get hit by a meteorite. And I'm not going to spend my days wondering what happens after a meteorite.

I'll just deal with that when it happens. You know what I'm saying? Right, definitely. So the chance of, you know this statistically, the chance of your kid getting lead poisoning is very, very, very low. Unless he's eating paint off of an old swing set somewhere.

We live in new construction. Right, right, right. So we know that those alarms are not coming from that fact. Right. The alarm is probably ringing off the hook for one of two reasons. Number one, you're a mom who just recognized for the first time, I made peace with an eating disorder.

I made peace with my body. I've made peace with my marriage. I've made peace with relationships. Oh, and then a huge variable just got dropped into my world that I simply can't control. And I've heard it said, I'm watching my heartbeat outside of my body in this little boy. I simply can't control. And I've heard it said, I'm watching my heartbeat outside of my body in this little boy.

And I can't control any of the things that happen moving forward. Somebody's gonna break his heart. Somebody's gonna be mean to him. He's gonna get in a car and drive across the country one day all by himself. He's gonna get fired one day. Those things are gonna happen.

Someone he loves is gonna get sick. Those things are gonna happen and I can't control any going to get sick. Those things are going to happen and I can't control any of it. And one of two things we can move forward is we can double down and say, I'm going to control it. Our body's going to scream at us, control, control.

Or I can make peace with, I'm going to do the best I can with what I got. And I'm going to make peace in that gap. And that's true healing. Does that make sense? So that's number one. Here's another number two that could be the case. It's not uncommon that somebody who had childhood traumas,

when they have a kid, their body remembers that. And like, so let's say somebody was sexually abused when they're seven. It's very common that somebody starts getting really anxious when their kids are six and a half, super anxious and really hyper vigilant and they don't know that they feel like they're going crazy and it's simply their body remembering hey this isn't safe and so that could be the case too for you yeah i think it's more the first one because i have i, I sent the 25th grandchild on my parents' side. And so I was like, I, I know what love is like.

I know what love is like for, cause I have all these nieces and nephews and, um, I had no idea. Ah, yes. It was so soul altering. All right. So I'm going to give you the demon of anxiety. You ready? And I don't mean that like in some weird, I don't know, like horned pitchfork kind of way. But I mean, this is why anxiety is the worst.

The more you give into it, the stronger it reinforces itself. Because your brain says, hey, if we need to wash our hands again, and that will make us feel a little bit safer for half of a second right so i wash my hands again and our body goes oh got that little bit of whoosh it feels good and then the next time it's let's wash them three times let's wash them four times and if you don't wash them four times it's like whoa right so it just keeps moving itself the only way through it is to turn and face it and walk directly in the middle of it. Right. Sometimes I do this thing where I'm like, I'm just going to pretend like I don't have OCD anymore.

No, don't do that. Don't do that. And like in the morning. Don't do that. Walk right in the middle of it. Know that I struggle with anxiety. And by the way, anxiety, OCD, I think they're on the same, I think they're two sides of the same coin. Right.

I actually have started thinking, I've always understood OCD to be a derivative of anxiety. I'm wondering if it works the other way right now. Here's the deal, it doesn't matter. It's literally academic gymnastics for me at this point, but I'm wondering if the neural loops that OCD sits on is what spins out anxiety. At the end of the day, who cares? When you start to need to wash your hands for the third time or the second time, stop and intentionally look at your hands and say, they're clean. And I'm going to lean into that discomfort. And then I'm going to write it down. Did not wash my hands again.

I feel uncomfortable and I'm intentionally feeling this discomfort. And I'm going to go about it. I'm going to go six minutes without washing my hands again. Right? I'm going to do these things and lean into it. Here's the one thing

I want to caution you against, okay? Your child will pick up on the tightened muscles and the accelerated heartbeat and the angst. And now I'm making you angsty about being angsty, right? I don't know. I'm going to make it worse. Yeah. No, those thoughts of you're not planting any seeds.

Just watering them well, right? Just fertilizing the crap out of them. I want you to aim towards less towards getting every germ out of your kid's life. And I want you to aim more towards being as peaceful as possible. Okay? And that means

I'm going to head directly into it. The gold standard for these type of things, the nerd words, is exposure therapy. I'm going to head directly into it. The gold standard for these type of things, the nerd words is exposure therapy. I'm going to gently expose somebody to something until their body stops reacting to it. And we think it's in our head. I just want to quick having these thoughts. Dude, it's your body launching into fight or flight as though someone was giving your kid arsenic or something. That's how your body responds. Logically, I know there's not lead all over my house, but my body's on fire. That's right.

And here's the thing. As soon as you move from lead, you let lead go, your body will move to something else. Right. Well, that's how it was during pregnancy. I was scared of like toxoplasmosis and all those terrible things. They say, well, hurt your baby while they're in the womb. He's born now

and I'm like, oh, I can eat whatever I want, but now there's other things. That's exactly right. I also, by the way, I'm not opposed to a low-dose SSRI to help rebalance the alarm system so that I can do the work.

Sometimes the alarms get so loud, it's tough. Those type of things won't fix the alarm system so that I can do the work. Sometimes the alarms get so loud, it's tough. Those type of things won't fix the alarm, but it will turn the volume down on it so that I can walk into the anxiety sometimes. Okay? That's something to talk about with your doctor. Don't go into your doctor and say,

hey, this dude on podcast said I should be... Don't do that. You can say, hey, this dude on podcast said I should be, don't do that. You can say, I'm really, these, my alarm systems are loud and I know they're not functioning right because I know there's no fire in the kitchen here, but they keep going off. I want to look at some ways to rebalance the alarms. My guess is you've been struggling with this for a long long long time and what your body's in desperate need of and quite frankly you deserve is 18 months of focused i'm gonna clear the anxiety from my body i'm gonna live i'm gonna intentionally build a non-anxious life through relationships, through connection, through exercise, through taking care of my

thoughts, to journaling, to going into the most anxious situations, to having conversations. Do you have a huge family? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You mentioned that you have a thousand nieces and nephews, right? How many brothers and sisters do you have? Five brothers and one sister.

Where are you in the hierarchy? I'm number seven and I'm significantly younger than the six. Okay. So they were all born within 10 years of each other, and I was born seven years after the youngest. Okay. So you can have very loving, wonderful, engaged parents, but you had a very different childhood than your brothers and sisters, right? Yeah. I was raised with 40 year old parents and they were raised with 20 year old parents. Yeah. Different people. Very different people. So you are going to have to

learn a new way to operate in the world. And I want to, I want to do a couple of things for you. Number one, I want to tell you this directly. Like I'm looking straight into the camera right now. I haven't been postpartum, okay? But I have the feelings you're describing, I felt them, I've lived it and it's been tough. It's doubled me over, okay? And I also want you to know that putting the work in is worth it

because on the back end, I literally don't have it at all anymore. It's gone. It's literally gone. And I feel like my body has completely rebalanced itself. Okay. So I'm telling you that because there's a light at the end of the tunnel if you want to do it, but it is going to be an overhaul. I had to change the way I do my life.

Okay. Do you have somebody that you can tell what's going on in your head to honestly? Oh yeah. You do? Yeah, I do. When I say it, I talk, I guess, how do I describe it? I say things very matter-of-factly, and so I've only ever actually broken down and cried once to somebody. Why is there a gap? I think because I don't want people to actually think that I think that he's going to get hurt or lead poisoning or whatever. That's not it.

That's not it. I want them to know. Okay. That's not it. Somewhere along the way, you were told that what you feel and your needs are not important. Other people's needs were more important. Yeah. And you've been a peacekeeper.

Is that true? In some ways i guess at some point your body will figure out a way to let the fears and concerns out and they will come out in weird crazy ways if they're compressed like lead poisoning mine was i thought they were going to nationalize housing i thought the i thought the housing market would implode again. And then the government's gonna have to come in and nationalize housing. And I was going to have to pay like, and dude, I had the math charts that I drew all of this madness and no amount of wisdom. It's good. Talk me out of it. And then I realized,

well, when I was reading your book and you were talking about the cracks, I'm like, that's how I feel. Yes, yes, and yes, and yes. Usually when somebody is struggling with OCD and anxiety, like you're describing, again, it could be very much hormonal, but you've been dealing with this for a long time. It's often a highly, highly isolated person surrounded by people who love them. Yeah.

I am a lighthouse surrounded by suns and nobody can see me or hear me because that's my job in this community in this environment in this family system and so i yell inside and eventually that yelling comes out in wacko ways and then there's an industry that tells me how to solve the wacko ways but but never gets to the core point. And if you are responsible for keeping mom from going off or for bothering dad, or if you are always trying to, well, your brother and your sister, or sometimes the youngest kid in your family system, mom and dad are tired. And it's like, ah, she's just a kid. And you kind of get left to your own devices. And it's cool. And it's also ah she's just a kid and you kind of get left to your own devices and it's cool and it's also whoa probably not super cool or you make different decisions or you find yourself in different situations or you marry somebody who is so great but

my job is to make sure he's okay you see what i'm saying and it just settles in and often that controls a kid is really like a simple statement. Do you see me and do you still love me? And I can figure out ways that you can see me. I'll be seen. Right?

Right. Your daughter's or your son's lucky to have you. Thank you. I talk with a lot of folks who don't give two craps about their kids. And your son's really, really lucky to have you as his mom.

Thanks. You don't believe that, but I don't lie on this show. Okay. You think he got a second rate, broke down mom, who's anxious all the time, and you're not. Okay?

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. You've got my... Which books do you have? Both. Both? Okay. I'm going to send you something else that's going to sound sideways. I'm going to send you the Questions for Humans couples editions, both of them.

Okay. I'm also going to send you the friends ones, and here's why. I want you... You still married? Yeah. Good guy? Yes. Are you sure? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cool. I want you to have some intentional once a week, take these cards out and ask four or five questions. My guess is you've never

fully connected with somebody. There's a disconnect between your feelings and the words that come out of your mouth. And that's anxiety. Do you ever feel like if you start crying, you'll just never be able to stop? Sometimes I get, I cry a lot. So it's not something that i like really prevent myself

from doing but you don't do it with other people no yeah well it depends certain people. Okay. All right. Are you meeting with a counselor? Yes. Okay, good. Not, is it not helping? Uh,

I've, I've been bouncing between counselors. Why? Well, I was seeing one that I really loved and she did, uh, EFT. And she had a somewhat inconsistent schedule. Like I couldn't see her once a week.

And you just had to get on at the beginning of the month and schedule all the appointments that you needed. And sometimes there was only one available. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah, that's not great. Yeah. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah, that's not great. Yeah, so then we had to play the insurance dance of who's in network. Anyway, so I'm seeing somebody. Not great. If you've been three or four times and it's not good, go to somebody else.

It's talk therapy. Okay. And I just feel like I want something more. Yeah. Okay, so did you get the behavioral things? I'll talk to him real quick one more time. I want you to lean into, when you feel the discomfort,

your first thought should not be, is this OCD or anxiety or my mother's intuition? Your first thought should be a smile on your face, even when it's annoying. My body's trying to take care of me. What's my body trying to protect me from? Oh, my body's trying to protect me from killing my kid. Awesome. Thank you for that. Not going to do that today. I washed my hands and I'm going to feed the baby and everything, my skin is crawling. Go wash them again. Go wash them again. Go wash them again. Thank you.

Writing down, I'm going to keep a little journal next to me. I'm going to write down, wash my hands once before I fed my kid. My body wants me to do it again. And I'm going to wait nine minutes. I'm going to wait eight minutes. I'm going to set a watch. And I'm going to practice being uncomfortable. I'm going to lean directly into this thing. And then after I feed my kid, I'm going to watch real close for signs of lead poisoning, which isn't even how that works. And then I'll exhale. And if I got to go wash my hands after nine minutes, 10 minutes after the alarm rings, cool, I'll go do that.

And I'm going to move it to 11 minutes. I'm going to move it to 15 minutes. And when I'm driving and I start to feel myself grab the wheel, I'm going to let it go. And when I start to say something to my husband that I need and I stop myself from it, cause I don't wanna cause a problem. I don't wanna be that guy.

I wanna be this kind of what? No, I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna say it. Okay, you see what I'm doing? We're practicing discomfort. We're leaning into this stuff, okay? Yeah. And my promise to you is if you will take this walk,

and by the way, get some sleep, and by the way, make sure you're taking care of yourself with exercise, make sure you're taking care of yourself with eating, make sure you got a group of women that you do life with, y'all hang out once a week, even if you have to get a babysitter that you can't afford, figure it out. Get with your husband, have him keep your kid, get with a neighbor, whatever that looks like.

The anxiety alarms will begin to, because your body will realize, oh, she's driving. She's in control of this thing for the first time in our life. Awesome. It's great. It's good. It's good. Thank you so much for calling, Emily. You're not broken. You're a good mom. And your little boy's lucky to have you. Let's solve for freedom, which means let's solve for peace. We'll be right back.

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I'm good. What are you doing? Right now, I'm just actually sitting on the beach in my car so that we're not disrupted by the ocean sounds. But yeah, enjoying a family vacation. Well, thanks for taking time away from the water for this knuckleheaded podcast. That's fantastic. Of course. All right. Let's solve world hunger. What's up? It's not quite as deep as that, but I appreciate you taking time to

navigate this with me. So I'll try to condense this. Basically what's going on is my future sister-in-law feels rejected after we asked her and my brother-in-law not to bring their dog to our one-year-old's birthday party. It sounds simple, but unfortunately, it's kind of blown up in our face. No, it's not simple at all because you're dealing with madness. Yeah. It's not simple at all. Yeah.

Wow. yeah it's not simple at all yeah wow they chose not to come to the party um which initially was kind of like offensive to us because we were like no we just want you to be there like we just don't want your dog there and we want you guys to come and so it felt to us like they were kind of like choosing their dog over our daughter. Hey, hold on, hold on, hold on. They 100% did. Yeah. It's not a feeling. It's data. It's true.

They chose their dog over you. Or they chose the principle of nobody's going to tell me what to do over your boundaries. Right. Full stop. I think it stems a little deeper than that for them though I think that like this response like was triggered by something probably in my sister-in-law's past I don't know

for sure but hey hold on doesn't matter don't get in her head and try to figure out why she's doing what she's doing and where it's coming from and all that doesn't matter you're gonna make yourself crazy doing that and you and your husband are gonna to get into fights over that. You're going to end up crawling.

You ever seen the movie Being John Malkovich? No, I haven't. Okay. It's about, they find a secret portal behind a file cabinet in an office that gets them inside of John Malkovich's head.

It's a bananas movie. It's one of the most incredible movies you can ever see in your life. It's awesome, but it's madness. Everybody goes crazy crazy and don't get in her head. Doesn't matter. She chose her dog over your kid. Full stop. That's what happened. Well, so I guess basically we're at the point where we're hearing from other family members two months down the road where we thought this was, you know, kind of all in the past.

We're hearing from family members that they're feeling rejected still, and now they're choosing not to attend Family Matters that we're at. And I in no way thought that this would become this big of a thing, and I don't want them to feel hurt. Is that because you're a rational human being? Well, maybe. Yes, maybe. Yes, yes. I really don't want them to feel hurt.

You can't control madness. You cannot control madness. I know. You can't. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry you can't control madness. I just hate that it's affecting the rest of the family at this point. Yes, that's fair. We love them and we love our family and we want them to be there and

feel welcome by us and by everyone because they are, but now they're choosing to avoid us instead of just talking to us about what's hurting them and hearing from other people that they're hurting. It's hurtful to us because we feel like, just talk to us. Like we're all adults. Like we just want to hear what's up and why this hurts. Have one of you all called them? So we actually didn't call them, but we met. We tried to meet up with them for brunch. We're actually about two hours apart.

They're in a different city, and they don't own a car. So it was really more on us to, like, try to get this. Why don't they own a car? They live in Philadelphia, so they just don't really need one. They walk and, you know, take public transit. So, yeah, I think basically we had, you know, basically planned to have brunch with them just spur of the moment since we were going to be in the city. And my future sister-in-law chose not to show up. And initially I thought, well, it was just last minute.

She probably just, like, had other plans. But then my brother-in-law told us that, like that she just chose not to come and that she was sleeping in. And we had our daughter with us thinking, okay, they'll want to see her. Even if they don't want to see us, surely they'll want to see her after not being able to be at her party. But yeah, apparently there was still hurt stemming from that. Okay, so let me be super direct. Is that cool? Yeah. This has very little, if if not nothing to do with the dog

right yeah we've realized that this is a woman who does not like you and does not like your husband or does not like your unit or doesn't like anybody taking attention from her precious little fiance and wants her world exactly how she wants her world and has a picture of it and will not deviate from it.

In fact, will act like a child, a elementary school child, not even a middle schooler. I've got one of those. This is an elementary school move. And there is literally nothing you can do about it except treat her with dignity and respect and go on with your day. You'll have to grieve this like crazy because you probably had a dream that you and your brother's wife

would become best buds and she'd be the greatest aunt ever. And you maybe even met her at a family party once or twice and thought she's hilarious and fun or weird and eccentric or whatever. And you created a picture of what life was going be, and that picture's not gonna come true. And you're gonna just have to grieve it. And I would be really direct with my other family members. I'm sorry they chose their dog over our kid. And if they choose to not wanna be around us because we have boundaries,

then that's the choice they make. And unfortunately, if they choose, if your to be around us because we have boundaries, then that's the choice they make. And unfortunately, if they choose, if the rest of your family chooses that, golly, that's going to feel like you're on an island, but your boundaries are still your boundaries. And if you start now trying to chase making other people happy like that in your family, man, that's a recipe for disaster. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Mm-hmm. I hate recipe for disaster. Yeah. You know what I mean? I hate this for you. I wish I could just be, we could all laugh and be like, I'll just call her and tell her or whatever. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess like my husband and I are at the point where we feel like it's worth trying to mend,

at least attempting. Like we would really like to still have a relationship with them, even if it is just the three times a year we see them at holidays. Andy, they don't want a relationship with you. But I think they do. They don't. It's just that they're hurt by this.

They don't. Have they called you and said, we're hurt by this? No. Have they written you a letter and just said, hey, we were caught off guard. We don't have kids. Our little dog is our only kid. And it sounds lame, but it means something to us. And it just bummed us out that you put that.

Did they do that? No, I wish they would have. No, they talk crap about you to other people. They're trying to rally troops to their side. They don't even show up when you drive two hours to be on their town with your new baby. They don't show up. They don't want to be in a relationship with you.

And I hate to be the guy that's telling you that. You want them to want to, but they don't. What they want is their world on their terms, and they can have it. But you've chosen to not meet some of those terms, and so they took their ball and went home. Yeah. And I hate that. Yeah. Because it's so immature, and it's so lame.

And I want you to notice something. I've never asked you one time why you did not want that dog in your house. You know why? Yeah. Because it's so immature and it's so lame. And I want you to notice something. I've never asked you one time why you did not want that dog in your house. You know why? Doesn't matter. Does not matter. You asked for them to not bring their dog. Who cares why?

You know what I mean? Yeah. I guess my- I'm sad for you. I'm a little guilty just because- Yes. It silly to like ask them not to bring their dog. And unfortunately we did communicate it like only, it was a little less than a week ahead of time. So we had told them about the party months in advance and then found out they were going to bring their dog and ask them not to. And so that's like, obviously where all this stems from. But I, some of me feels like

this is deeper, obviously it's deeper than that, but some of me feels like there has to be something else that they're frustrated with us about for this to become this big. But I don't, I like, I'm just thinking like, what could that be? And like, it's, it's very common for little things like your brother is talking about, well, my sister, when they got married, fill in the blank, or my sister's awesome. She does this and they have kids and my brother-in-law is doing this. And unfortunately, it's common that a new person marrying into a family feels threatened by that relationship between a brother and a sister. Feels threatened by that relationship between the brother and other members of the

family. And so they don't blow it up. They do sometimes, but that's easy to spot, right? That's simple. They don't blow it up from the one up position, right? You can't go see her. They don't do that. They just, they blow it up from, they drown it from the one down position. They just grab the rope of the boat and slowly pull it underwater. I'm just not going to go. I just don't feel like it. I'm uncomfortable. I'm tired. I'm just not going to go.

And then eventually your brother will get tired showing up to things by himself and he'll just stay home too. Right? It's actually my husband's brother. I mean, we're still still yeah i i guess like i understand what you're saying how like it seems like they don't want to be in our lives but at the same time we'd like to at least try to amend it even though they haven't really put foot forth

effort to we'd really like to try and i feel like personally kind of feel like we owe it to my mother and father-in-law to try. Cause they're the ones that like told us kind of how this was all playing out. So now you're, you're responsible for how your in-laws feel because they don't have the courage to tell their kids y'all are being ridiculous. Put the dog in a dumb kennel and go see your, your niece. Yeah. I mean, I kind of wish that was their response, but it wasn't. You can't manage this, and I hate that.

Now, listen, I'm with you. Hear me say this. Pretend you're the guy calling me and say, hey, I dated this girl for a while, and then all of a sudden she quit talking to me. And I reached out, and we were going to get together for coffee. And then she just said, I'm sleeping in. And I had something really important to show her. And she's like, I just blew me off. I think she really still loves me. But I'm going to try one more overture. I would say this, she doesn't, but go for it anyway. Okay. So if I'm you, I would do

some, I would make sure I'd crossed all the T's and dotted all the I's. Yeah. Just because you told them a week ahead of time, doesn't mean you're at fault because you didn't know about the dog until a week ahead of time. Because if somebody is going to bring a pet to somebody's, a stranger's house, usually they, they let you know. My parents do that every year. They have a little wiener dog named Rachel and they call and say, hey, is it cool if we bring the dog? Sometimes it is. Last year we were like, hey, can you just board that dog? And they're like, yeah, no problem. And they boarded the dog for a week. And you know what? This is crazy. Hold your breath, everybody. The dog was just fine. Just fine. Just fine.

But sometimes she brings it, sometimes they bring it, sometimes they don't, but it's something they always mention because my parents are grownups. They're like adults, right? So you found out about it late and then you're not the bad guy when you said, we just found out about this. Not cool. Right? Yeah. And I think part of the reason they felt they could just bring their dog without asking is because the party was being held at my in-laws and they have like an open door policy to pets, but it was us hosting the party and like we invited them and we didn't realize that. Andy, it doesn't matter. I know. I guess I'm just trying

to defend their side of things, but I'm, you know, I really don't feel like all of it's about the dog. It's just, it sucks that it's come to this little thing.

Yes. It's not about the dog. It's not about the dog. Yeah. If it was about the dog, this would have been long gone and over. Yeah.

Long gone and over. It's stupid. You can't, it would have been so dumb. I can't gone and over. It's stupid. You can't, it would have been so dumb. I can't bring my dog. You're in a crazy overprotective new mother

and you would have been like, well, it's crazy that you can't not have your dog for a few hours on a Saturday. And then y'all would have been like, I know,

I know. All right, I'll get, let's go get beers. And it would have been over, right? That little dialogue and then we all get over it

and still like have the party and have fun. Yes, yes. Or even just like them telling us like, hey, their major offended and maybe we can reevaluate and figure out a way to get their dog there

and keep it inside. But that wasn't communicated. So now it's like a big thing. Right. Here's the true conversation. Your husband needs to have this with his brother. Brother to brother, man to man. And I don't mean

like some like duel, but like he needs to call his brother and say, you and I are meeting. This isn't a question. This is a statement. We're meeting. I'll drive down to Philly to talk to you. We need to have this hard conversation. What is happening? I'm not interested in going through my life without my brother in it. And my wife is an integral part of my life. Your fiance is about to be a part of your life, which means they're all a part of all of our lives. What in the world? That's what needs to happen.

Yeah. Do you think it's appropriate to have that conversation, like the four of us versus just them? Not yet. They need to have it themselves. Okay. These are two brothers man acting like this whole conversation i i thought you were talking about it was you and him you and your brother yeah man

these are two brothers you just don't have a conversation and mom and dad quite frankly need to butt out of it yeah they just need to get over it yeah Yeah, I really do feel like the issue is, unfortunately, more my future sister-in-law somehow having an issue with me. So that's why I was wondering if we should do it, the four of us. Not yet. At some point, yes.

If there's healing to take place and people are going to act like grownups, then yes, it'll probably include you and her getting in a room and saying, I like you, I don't know where we got sideways, but what can we do to move forward? Right. Yeah. And I think the conversation starts with your brother because here's what's going to happen. You're going to find out that you said something seven months ago that you have no recollection of that hit her in the wrong way on the wrong day

for the wrong reason. And it started a one degree turn sideways. And now it and now it's a mess. Or she just doesn't like you and doesn't want to be a part of this big family and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because you can't get in her head. Yeah. But here's what, like, before we get off the phone, hear me say this. You are responsible for your boundaries and you are responsible for treating people with dignity and respect and kindness. Right, yeah.

You cannot control how they respond and choose to act. And guilt is fine. Guilt's just a signal, right? It's just a, it's a feeling. It's good, it's important, but it's something you look at because our feelings don't always tell us the truth. And I can feel guilty about something. I feel sad for the way somebody feels. I feel

bummed out that my in-laws are mad at me. I feel bummed out that my brother-in-law's fiance is a middle schooler or not even a middle schooler, an elementary school kid. And then suddenly you deconstruct that guilt and it's not really guilt at all. It's just sad. I'm sad. I had a picture. It's grief. I wanted it to be like this and it actually is like this. Yeah. And it's a bummer. But dude, I think your brother should call his brother today and say, just cut through the nonsense. You and I are meeting.

We got to figure this out. I have a feeling my husband's not going to like that response. Why? Why would he not do that? Why would he not call his brother? I feel like at this point, we're just both like, we just want it to be resolved. And like, he kind of feels like it's,

well, I don't know if he feels this way, but I feel like it is more from like my sister-in-law's, future sister-in-law's side. But he doesn't have any business talking to your brother, his brother's girlfriend, call his brother and say, what in the world? Cause at least his brother's going to have a true,

honest discussion. And if he's already choosing, um, if, if younger brother is already choosing fiance over a conversation with his brother, you, you,

then you have a big neon sign to where the problem is. Yeah. And it just breaks my heart. Breaks my heart. But at least when mom and dad call back, he can say, hey, I called brother. He wants nothing to do with me. He doesn't want to have a conversation with me. He's still acting like a middle school kid, blah, blah, blah.

Sorry. I did. I reached out to him. I went and visited him. He didn't show up. She didn't show up. He won't have an honest, truthful conversation. At least you can report that back up to mother and dad

so that they can call him and say, what's the matter with you? I raised you better than this. But so everybody listening real quick, people in your life are gonna come up with new boundaries. They're going to say no. They're going to say no thank you or I'm not – that's not – this thing isn't welcome here, whether it's a dog or a pet or your loud F-550 with the glass packs on it or whatever you're doing.

Fine. Cool. Somebody's put a boundary in and you don't like that boundary you choose well then if my f550 can't show up if i can't show up to your kid's birthday party with my ar strapped on my back whatever the thing is if i can't do it um i'm opting out great opt out but do it with class and dignity and just say hey thanks uh we're not gonna be able to make it. Or I'm gonna choose to, I travel only with my dog, it's helpful for me. And I understand you want my dog there, so that's great.

So we're gonna pass on the birthday party, but we'll catch up at another time. Just be an adult about it. Just be grown up about it. And if you're marrying into a family, you're marrying everybody in that family. Make peace with it. And if you marry somebody who has a great relationship with their sibling, don't blow that up. Honor that, love it,

be so excited about it. Do whatever you can to nourish that relationship. Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. Have the conversation. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings.

We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can

be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. All right. I just want to sit here and sing Who Let the Dogs Out. Hoo hoo. But I won't. We'll take one more call. Let's go to Sylvia in the city of Angels, Los Angeles. What's up, Sylvia?

Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing well, thank you. You got it. You just hit me with that conflict deferred, conflict amplified.

Uh-oh. Uh-oh. I feel like that's how we're gonna end my call too. Oh, great. All right. So what's up? Como estas? So my direct question is

should I reach out to my son's father who I haven't talked to since my son was basically born? Tell me more. So I'm really nervous. Okay. So we dated for about six months. And in those six months,

the last time I saw him, we were intimate and we used the plan B. And after that, like we, that was the last time I saw him. We kept talking, but I realized, like, maybe I don't want to be with him. And I didn't know I was pregnant. Okay, so y'all hooked up. Y'all slept together.

You went the next day, took the plan B pill, and then moved on with your day. And then a couple of days, a couple of weeks later, y'all broke up, and you moved on with your life. Yeah, and then six weeks later, y'all broke up and you moved on with your life. Yeah. And then six weeks later, I found out I was pregnant. Okay. So when I told him about it, we were already broken up. And he told me to terminate the pregnancy. Okay.

And I said I wasn't going to do that. And he just kept pressuring me and pressuring me to have an abortion. And I just kept saying no. So for the first six months of my pregnancy, I tried to not answer his message. I didn't see him at all through my whole pregnancy. For six months, we almost didn't talk. But when I was six months, he came back and was supposedly, okay, let's try to work things out. But we never actually saw each other. And then like a month later, you know, when I was seven months pregnant, he's like, you know what, nevermind. I'm not ready to be a father. And I don't understand

why you decided to keep this child. you're putting me in a bad situation you've ruined my life you just got pregnant for a paycheck and he just I mean I don't want to cry but he just like I just felt really humiliated yeah because what he did yes that was

it's disgusting what he said to you it's cowardly and it's disgusting and it's disgusting what he said to you. It's cowardly and it's disgusting and it's childish. And I'm sorry that somebody did that to you. Yeah, so, I kept communication open for my son because I felt like, you know, maybe eventually he'll change his mind

and this is his first child. Maybe he'll want to come around. So I said, if you don't talk to me respectfully, I'm not going to respond. Good. But if you want to know how the pregnancy is going, how the baby is going, I will respond to those questions. So we did continue communication in that way. And when I went into labor, we were talking. Hold on, hold on.

You keep talking about communication and y'all were talking. Are you just talking about y'all texting each other? Yes, because I was afraid to talk to him. Listen, listen, listen. That is not communication. You are passing data back and forth to each other. You have not had a real relationship. No, that's, if you're afraid,

that's wise. If you're afraid, wise. Good move on your part. But it really sounds like you had a picture in your head that you weren't going to be one of those people who had a kid by themselves. Like, that's not going to happen to me, and it happened to you.

Exactly. You've been propping up this picture for a long time now, and the guy left. He told you he wanted you to kill the baby and move on with your life. Yes. So he's told you what he wants. What's absolutely melting you from the inside out is the energy

you're expending trying to prop up a picture of something that's gone. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. In a strange way, the conflict deferred statement is you. You're at conflict with the conflict deferred statement is you. You're at conflict with you. This guy's told you he left you.

He left to a beautiful son. He left. God's making me so just unbelievable. I'm heartbroken for you like in a deep way because I don't like to be out of town more than a day away from my kids I can't wrap my head around somebody who would want to walk away from their kids I can't I don't have the psychology for it I can't wrap my head around it's not something I can

understand I know I'm my son is three years old and I've only left him with my sister to watch three times in his whole life well that's going to make you crazy, Sylvia. You need to go do fun things, too. You need to have friends.

You need to be out having fun, and he can stay with a babysitter or a family member. You know what I mean? Yeah. So why is this just now coming back up? Why are you just now wondering, should I reach out?

Because my son is talking now. Yep. And he's very smart And he notices like Cartoons have like Songs have mom and dad You know Coco Melon is Daddy and mommy And you know Baby Shark is

Mama Shark, Papa Shark Everything like Bluey has this Papa Bluey Bluey's dad is screwing it up for everybody That guy's like dad of the century I watch that show and I'm like Man level up Deloney So Bluey's not really fair

That dad's incredible Yeah so I know I just kind of feel like it's gonna come It is It is And here's the response. Daddy wasn't well, and so he chose to go. Daddy loves you, but daddy was not well.

Daddy was sick, and he chose to go away. And here's the unfortunate thing. You know this as well as I do. That little boy is going to wonder what he did wrong to send dad away. He's going to wonder that for the rest of his life. And here's what's going to happen. You're going to do a really great job raising this little boy. He won the lottery with you as a mama.

And you're going to do a great job. And then at some point, dad's going to swoop back in. And everything in your life is going to be gritting your teeth and say, stay away from that man. He's a bad man. And at some point you're going to have to choose peace and you're going to have to choose forgiveness because that's the father of your son. And if you talk bad about him or if he comes to believe that dad is evil and wrong, that little boy knows that half of me is him. So your son's going to walk around feeling like half of him is broken and defective.

I'm not planning on that. I never talk bad about him or any man. I know, I know. I'm just saying, like, it's going to be a tough road to hoe. That's what happens when dads walk out on their families. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I wish it will happen sooner rather than later for my son's sake. And like you're saying, I will always try to keep peace.

But at the same time, I'm afraid that when he does come, every little situation would be like, well, I told you not to have him. Sylvia, you're making yourself crazy trying to prop up a picture that's not going to happen. The guy's gone. When's the last time you had a face-to-face conversation with him? When we conceived the baby.

Four and a half years ago? Mm-hmm. When's the last time you had a text message conversation with him? When my son was five days old. So it's been three years? Yeah. Do you even know where he is? No.

Last time we spoke, he said he had bought a house in another state, but I don't know if he's still there. I'll give you my thoughts. Please. I think you should take him to court for child support. And I think he should be taken care of. If he wants to walk away and neglect his family in that way, whatever.

But he's got a financial responsibility to this kid. That's what I think. Or you can just wipe your hands of it and be done. And as he gets older, he's going to have to reckon with, it wasn't me there was something wrong with my dad that made him do a very unnatural act which was to leave a pregnant mom and then he's gonna have to make peace with that inside of him and that's

gonna be his healing adventure that he goes on probably for a long long time. Yeah, a lot of, well, my, my family totally does not want me to put him on child support, but I have a couple of friends because truthfully, I don't need him financially. I mean, extra money will always help. I can put it in my son's savings account or something, but truthfully, I don't need his money. Okay. And I just feel like, I don't know, I don't know how much he would give me, like $300, $500, whatever amount it is. It's not worth for me, him telling me,

see, I told you, you just did this for a paycheck and you just did this to ruin my life. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know? He threw a grenade at you when he was a scared kid. He threw a grenade at you that is still burning through your heart. He said some stupid stuff. That doesn't neglect the fact that he needs to take financial responsibility for his son.

Right? And you are suffering because you don't want to fulfill an insult that he made to you. Yeah. Banana, Sylvia. He doesn't get a vote, man. He doesn't get a vote, man. He doesn't get a vote in how you feel.

He cashed that out. He doesn't get a vote how you feel. He doesn't get a vote how this kid gets raised. He doesn't get a vote. He left. He walked away.

Do you still have all those text messages? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I would save all those I'd print them off somehow yeah I do they're going to look great being read in court telling me that I ruined his life

and that he told me he told me that every time because I wanted him to be more Sylvia why are you giving him voice in your head this many years later? Maybe because I don't know. At this point, Sylvia. I grew up without my dad.

I know. I want to do everything possible for my son to have a father. He left you. He left. He left. Yeah. And that's because something was, something was wrong with him, not you. And you still carry it around that your dad left because of something you did. That's not true. Your dad left because of him, not you carrying that around Sylvia actually I was in therapy and my therapist said you know because I told her when do you think I'll have a breakthrough you

know and she said when you don't hold regret or not regret when you don't hold like a grudge or hate towards your dad and and when she said that I'm like never like that's never gonna happen but now I realize now I I I do feel that way I'm like it wasn't me he had his own priorities and obviously I wasn't one no no no no no no no no okay here's what you got to do you You've got, here's your homework assignment. You ready? I want you to pick up, I want you to go to Home Depot and it'll cost you like five bucks. Okay.

That's like one, one 20th or one 100th of a, of a price of a psychiatrist visit. Okay. I want you to pick up, go to the back of the garden section and pick up a landscaping brick. And I want you to put a piece of duct tape over that brick, and I want you to write,

Dad left, and I'm mad. And I want you to carry that brick around for an hour, around your house. You cannot set it down. You can't put it on your lap. You have to hold it. Okay? And I want you just to keep carrying it when you go to the grocery store,

when you go in the backyard and you take the trash out, whatever it is you're doing, you play with your son, you can be like, mommy, why are you carrying that brick? And you're like, because some moron on a podcast told me to do it. And I want you to carry it around and your shoulders are going to ache and your hands are going to get tired. And at some point, I want you to take that brick out in your backyard and throw it as far as you can and never pick it up again. That is forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn't let your dad off the hook. Forgiveness says, I'm not carrying your poison

anymore. Because right now, Sylvia, you are drinking poison every day of your life, hoping your dad feels it, and he doesn't. Yeah, just like my son's dad. Yes, and you're picking up a cup of poison from your son's dad, and you drink it every morning, hoping that he feels it, and he doesn't. The only person who's getting poisoned is you. Stop. You're worth so much more than this. Right?

Yes. Yes. Let it, let, set it down. Set it down. You are gonna have to be highly intentional about putting other men in your son's life. He's gonna need men, not saying like have a rotation of people you're dating through the house. He's gonna need a grandparent or uncles or men that you trust from a local church or from a local school that will lean into his life. And so you're gonna be proactive.

Hey, you're a man in my life that I trust. Would you be willing to take my son for an hour a week and just go play? Just let him have some interaction time, go kick a soccer ball, go throw a ball, go rough house, go do something, take him to a park. And there are men who will do that. I've done that for people. There are men who will step up and do that because there's some extraordinary men out there. But at this point, it's been four and a half years. You're hanging on to a ghost. You're hanging on to a wisp, to an ether that doesn't exist. The man left.

He said, I want you to kill this baby because you've ruined my life. I'm gone. And he left. He's gone. And you say you don't need his financial support and it's not even worth the drama, that's your life.

I'll support you on that. Stop drinking poison, Sylvia. Stop. You're worth a good night's sleep. You're worth laughter. You're worth loving again. All these things. You didn't screw up.

You didn't do anything wrong. You're a good mom. Carry that brick around for a while, and then I want you to feel what it feels like to set it down. And I'll say it one more time. Your dad left because there was something wrong with him. Not you. The father of your son left

because he was struggling with whatever he's struggling with. Not because of you. Stop carrying that. Set it down. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, in honor of that second call today, song of the day is the classic. Y'all absolutely don't know this, but whenever Kelly wears something low cut in the back across the top of her shoulders in Old English, she has tattooed Baja men. She loves them. The Baja men classic, Who Let the Dogs Out? And it goes like this.

Who let the dogs out? Who, who, who? Well done. Well, the party was nice. I'm not even gonna do it. Who let the dogs out? Way to go, America. We'll see you soon.