The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m Dating My Mom’s (Much Older) Ex-Boyfriend

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

In today’s episode, we’re talking with a woman whose elderly mom is allowing family members to abuse her, a 23-year-old woman tangled up in a relationship with her mom’s 50-year-old ex-boyfriend, and a woman avoiding relationship with her religious sister. Lyrics of the Day: ""She Doesn't Have to Know" - John Legend" Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Kelly wrote me a note on the board up here that I looked to see, like, which line the calls are in. It says, Annalise, Boston, dating mom's ex-boyfriend. Please tell me that's not right. Uh, unfortunately, it is. Are you serious? What are you doing? What happened? It's so hard to fall.

You float like a cannonball. What's up, everybody? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So glad you're here. Don't know why I'm yelling. We're all in the same little headphone space. So glad you're here. Don't know why I'm yelling. We're all in the same little headphone space. So glad you're here. Hey, if you haven't listened to Damien Rice's O record from way back in the day,

it's just called O. Man, right when this podcast is over, get on Spotify and listen to it. It's so good. It's so good. Hey, on this show, we're talking about mental health, relationships. We're talking about educating. Anything and everything that's going on in your life. We've got a show full of calls. That's kind of what we do here. James, good to see you.

Glad you made it. James is doing the cool producer thing right now where he has the headphones around his neck. It's pumping directly into his arteries. That's the kind of producer he is. Uh-oh, he's got him back on. Alright, let's go to the cult. I've got these sweet things in here called speakers so I can hear through the speakers too.

You and your techno wizardry. Speakers. Ridiculous. Headphones, people. Let's go to Kate in Fort Myers. What's up, Kate? Hello. How we doing? I'm doing well. How are you? We're figuring it out. Figuring it out. What's up? My issue is that I let things bother me that are outside the realm of my influence. Me too. Tell me what you're struggling with.

Well, my father passed away 20 years ago. Okay. And ever since then, my brother has used this opportunity to financially exploit my mother. He has a lot of influence over her. How is he exploiting her um well just she just told me a story last week where she had given him a check for 30 uh 30 dollars a blank check she gave it to him because he needed um to get a license for his dog well he took that check and he wrote it out for $600. Oh, so he's stealing. About 10 years ago, yeah, about 10 years ago, her house burned down and she got $120,000 from the insurance. He slowly but surely took money from her from that

toward the point where there's no money left. He kept saying, I'll go buy the wood and repair the house. I'll go buy this piece of equipment and fix the house up. I'll, you know, and he just slowly but surely drained all that money from her. So what part about that can you not control? Or is she just allowing it? Because if I'm you, I'd call the cops. I'd get an attorney.

I'd get, I'd raise all kinds of sideways barn fires to get in there on that. What part can you not control unless you've talked to her and she says, yeah, well, that's just your brother. Is that what's happening? Yeah, she keeps saying, well, he's going to fix that house for me someday. He owes me that money, and he's going to take care of it. And in her will, she has left him the only asset she has left, which is her 120 acre farm.

She's left that to him in the will. Why not you? Why not me? Because I'm not a boy. The boy gets the farm. The boy gets the farm. And we've talked about it. She even has said to me... What's the girl get? The plates? The girl gets the farm. The boy gets the farm. And we've talked about it. And she even has said to me. What's the girl get the plates? The girl gets the plates, yes.

The girl gets the plates. Gosh, why? It's the, I want to keep it in the name. I won't say my last name. I want to keep it in the, you know, and I don't have that same last name. Whatever. It's whatever. I'm not, I don't want anything from her.

I don't have that same last name. Whatever. It's whatever. I'm not, I don't want anything from her. Yeah. I don't want anything. I've told her, you know, use your money on you. Spend it on you. You know, your money. When this thing goes sideways, when ultimately your brother has completely poked enough holes in the bottom of this fish tank for there to be no more water left. There's no more money. Right.

Are you going to be responsible for taking care of mom? Is she going to move in with you? No. No, my other sister will. I mean, I will if my other sister. There's three girls and one boy in the family. Okay. All of us girls try to help her.

I let go of it about 10 years ago, but recently she started helping out another person who's taking advantage of her, her nephew who's moved in with her and is taking advantage of her. And that's what got kind of brought it up again. And I just, I want to be able to have a relationship with her, but it's so hard when she won't set any boundaries. I feel like I have really good, healthy boundaries I set with people, and I want to cut her out of my life. I want to be there for her, but then she'll just drop this story like she just told me the other day. She drops this story on me. Oh, I gave him a check, and he wrote it out for $600. Well, I closed that account, so it's all okay for 600 well I closed that account so it's all okay now

and I'm like but it's not okay yeah it's just a son robbing his mother I mean in the of course any kind of being a thief is being a thief right and not telling the truth is not telling the truth and blah blah blah but

stealing from your mother man you know what I mean? Like that's, that's next level. Yeah. He even, he even, I don't know, maybe it was 15 years ago, right after my dad passed away, he threatened suicide, you know, because, you know, no one's going to help me out kind of thing. So I think she's always got that in the back of her head that if she doesn't

help him out and the worst part of that, well, not that that's not bad enough, but the worst part of it is her mother committed suicide. Oh, yeah. She knows the pain of that. And it's like,

if that's his undue influence over her for the last 15 years is, you know, I think he just kind of drops that little. Sounds like your mom's had a lot of big hurt in her life. And she has developed some pretty miraculous slash pathological ways of segmenting people's behaviors so that she can keep people in her life. And unfortunately, the good kids, the three daughters who are still coming around and still trying to be supportive, y'all bear the emotional weight that she can't carry

because she just sloughs it off, right? So two important things here. One is mom is a proxy right now. You haven't made peace with your brother. So you either need to have your conversation with your brother and let everything be said that you want to be said. Write him a letter and say all the things that you are stealing from our mother. You should be ashamed of yourself. I know she raised you better.

You need to have that conversation with him. All three of your sisters need to have that conversation with him, whatever. Or in some families that can happen, other families that can't. So I won't speak into which one, and you know your sisters and your brother. My guess is, just talking to you for a few minutes, if that conversation would have been fruitful, you would have had that years ago. And so my guess is that's not a fruitful conversation. If it's not, you have to make peace with the haunting fact that part of what made your brother made you. And when our brothers and sisters do things that hurt other people, by extension, we're like, can I do that? Right? It's kind of, it's this, you're going to have to cut that tie. You're going to have to put up a really firm boundary.

I don't talk about my brother. I don't acknowledge this guy. He is a crook and he steals from my mother. And so the only way I can preserve my dignity and my treating other people with respect is to say that person does not exist. I am a person who always leaves an unlocked door for somebody to return, but that person, that's them.

I can't continue to chase you down, right? And my gut tells me is when you make peace with that, whatever your choice is there, then the conversation with your mom, when she starts telling you about the nephew saying, mom, you know, I don't think he should be living here. I think he's stealing from you and I will not have a conversation about him. Let's talk about something else. Okay. Right. And so that's you,

you're not taking control of your feelings. What you're doing is you're taking control of the on and off ramp. You're putting a toll stop there so that when that thing gets, when a car tries to drive through, you're stopping it before it even gets going. Right. See what I'm toll stop there so that when that thing gets, when a car tries to drive through, you're stopping it before it even gets going. Right. See what I'm saying? That is the only way I've found to stop stuff when I'm worrying about things I can't control. I can't stop worrying about Russia and Ukraine, so I have to cut off my access to the information about it on a 24-7, 365 basis. See what I'm doing?

Do you talk to your sisters about this? Yes, all the time. They both live very close to her. I'm 1,200 miles away. So I get, you know, I get the stories from my mom, but I also get them from my sisters, and then

that's all we end up talking about for, you know, 20 20 minutes what he's doing yeah i think i mean that's the further extension of the boundaries is talking to your sister either somebody either there's an intervention and the three daughters go sit with mom and say we want this crook out of your house and then she might say well forget you guys i want y'all out of my house and that's one of those relational risks that you got to take when you're trying to save somebody. I don't know enough to know whether she's desperate for someone to come in and save

her or if she doesn't give you all that power. My guess is if y'all had that power, you would have used it by now. But the worst part about boundaries with family is boundaries come with a risk. And the risk is they could say no, bye, and walk away. And that's gut-wrenching. And I'm telling you, you're trying to preserve a relationship with your mother, which is noble and good. But you also can't see her. You can't stand by and watch while she allows herself to be held underwater by a criminal son and a criminal nephew.

And so it may be that the best way to protect yourself is to extricate yourself from the situation. Turn your, like say, I'm not having these conversations anymore. I don't think it's beyond getting with your two sisters and calling an attorney and seeing if she's got the ability to care for herself with the way they're draining her. Or whether it's worth getting the authorities involved, or at least having an attorney write your brother and write your nephew a letter that says, if another dollar comes out of it, right? Your mom may say, no, I can do what I want to with my money, and that's just heartbreaking,

and that's, adults can do what adults can do. But it may be worth throwing a grenade to see what happens. That's probably what I would do, just because I... I don't know. I have a hard time taking no for an answer sometimes, but... Just hear me say this. I'm sorry. This is hard. Hard.

Hard. We'll be right back. Alright, we're back. Let's go to Annalise in Boston. What's up? Hi, Dr. Jones. How are you? I'm good. Okay, so Kelly wrote me a note on the board up here that I looked to see, like, which line the calls are in.

And it says, is it Annalise or Annalise? Annalise. Beautiful name. Okay. It says, Annalise, Boston, dating mom's ex-boyfriend. Please tell me that's not right. Unfortunately, it is. Are you serious?

What are you doing? What happened? Yeah, this isn't a situation, obviously, I ever thought I would be in, and I tried not to be in this situation but basically um okay talk talk into your phone I want to hear all of this okay um so I'm currently uh 23 years old I'm a college student and my boyfriend is 50 years old and he dated my mom. He started dating my mom eight years ago. They broke up around five years ago. They dated for like three years.

So they started dating when you were 15, before you could drive. Yes. Did you know him then? They dated for three years. Surely you all hung out. Yeah. Um, actually he's like notable because my parents divorced when I was 12 and he was the first guy after their divorce that she felt, um, that she could introduce me and

my two older half brothers too. And introduce her. She did him. She did. Right. Okay. So fast forward. They dated for three years and broke up.

So this wasn't like they went out once. This is like, yeah, that's what's up. And then how did you run into this guy? So I went away, you know, after I graduated high school, I went away to college in another state, and it was just a kind of bad experience. I wasn't doing well in my classes. It was an expensive college, and, you know, I didn't really make that many friends.

So I decided to transfer to a college closer to home that was cheaper, and I was just in a really bad place in my life. I gained like 20 pence and I applied for an internship I really wanted, didn't get it. And then things came in, you know, you should go out and just, just like, um, go to industry events and just like network and just talk to people and just learn a lot. And during one of those industry events, I bumped into him. And his silver thinning hair just caught your attention. And you were like, oh yeah. Like how did that even happen? I'm in, I'm in my early forties.

Like when I run into 23 year olds now, I feel like I, it's, I don't know what to say, right? It feels awkward because of the, because of the age gaps. I'm just trying to think of myself a decade from now, just into an industry event and being like, oh, look, 23 year old that I'm going to give that a go. I can't even wrap my head around that. So walk me through how y'all met. So at the industry event or just like? This is purely 100%. Almost all the time I ask questions to get more data for my response. I just need to know like how this happened.

This is me taking your time just for personal gain. All listeners, you can just hit the 15 second little spinny thing. I just got to know how this guy got you interested in him. Maybe he's a 50 year old smoke show. Maybe. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I interrupted you. Go ahead. So when he was dating my mom, we only met like three times. And like, he was basically like, I didn't really have that much of an impression of him because I felt like, you know, he's my mom's boyfriend, blah, blah, blah. No, but take me to the industry event. You're in a big hotel lobby with all the little booths and stuff.

And then you see this this smoking hot 50 year olds like what's up ladies and you said yep that like how what was the move how did it work it didn't happen like that um i was with a friend from college who also wanted to go this thing and then i basically was walking um I was like my eyes were going towards like a door because I wanted to go to like some other room and then I saw this man who was like looking at me and then I had to like do a double take because it's been a couple of years and I was like oh no it's it's him and then um obviously it would look ridiculous if I just like, if he was like saying

hi to me and I walked away. So you know, we started talking and then... My mom keeps telling me no. And then you started talking and then just... Man. Okay, so I'll stop picking on you. So let's fast

forward. So how long have y'all been together now um we started dating like a year slightly over a year ago and your mom doesn't know it's like yeah she does not know and I've only told like a couple of friends and they were all like, this is not what I meant by getting out there. Like all the men in the world. Yep. You have good friends. Um, so how can I help?

You've told me a great, you've told me a great yarn. Uh, how can I help? My mom keeps telling me no, but my, but. Keep going. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Go ahead. So, yeah, just wanted to also say I didn't, you know, we also, after that event, we bumped into each other a couple other times. And then he invited me to go to some other place. And I was like, this is probably wrong. So I said no, and then he showed up to my apartment and convinced me to go with him, and that's when things started happening. And I just don't know what to do at this point because it's like, first of all, I feel very guilty

because when I was depressed depressed my mom finally told me why they broke up and it was because she got pregnant and then he said like uh he's he does stuff in architecture so he says like my buildings are my children I don't want any children so that's why they broke up and then you know and now he's saying like basically you know he's had a lot of health issues his dad who was like the center of his world died so um he says that this isn't about your mom I do like you and then says, but I don't want you to do anything you're not comfortable with. But I just don't see how, you know, I feel like I'm just in way over my head. Yes.

Okay. So number one, saying that out loud, I appreciate it. So what I will tell you on this side of the fence, on this side of 30, let me just say that. The phrase you're in over your head i think is is apt um and i'm glad that you see that and more importantly you feel that right your body tells you something's not right the reason i know you're not okay with this is that you don't tell your friends i mean you're not you're not holding this hand in public you're not out and about this is something that is a source of shame for you.

And you haven't told your mom who you're close to. And those secrets are killing you, right? I mean, they're eating you up from the inside out. And quite honestly, in this call, I'm going to tell you I'm sorry. This is all fun and games until it sounds like you are being pressured to participate in a relationship that you are objectively not comfortable with. Is that true? Yeah. I just, you know, it's just, I feel like I, you know, he's like the first person I've ever had like a serious relationship with.

And, um. Hey, let me be very clear. Let me be very clear. This is not a serious relationship. You are being taken advantage of. Okay. Now, let me rephrase that. This is very serious for you, not so much for him. And I'm feeling rage growing in my chest

that this man is taking advantage of you like he is, and I know you're 23, and the whole world's gonna say you're an adult and this and that. You're in over your head, and this is a mess. So tell me what happens if you just broke up with him today.

You just said, hey, I don't ever want to see you again. Thanks, but no thanks. I wish you the best life in your architectural baby buildings. You, you, what would happen? What would happen to you? What would happen to him? Walk me through it. I definitely would feel like,

feel like the world's kind of a little bit ending, not in like that dramatic way, just like I would really need to definitely not see anybody for like a week or something, two weeks. Um, and I think he would be because, you know, he told me a lot about, you know, how like the death of a father really affects you. He feels so lonely. Yeah, honey, that is part of the game. That's the part of the scam he's running on you. Yes, losing your father is intensely lonely. No question. Using that as hooks in a 23-year-old is just not cool. And that's to put it as mildly

as possible. I'm really trying to watch my mouth here. You aren't his caretaker. You can't, quote unquote, make him feel better. You aren't all he's got left in the world. Those things that he tells you, that's a move. And I'm sick to my stomach that he's dragged you through this. What happens if you sit down? And again, hear me, if you were to end this relationship, there is no question it would be devastating for you, okay? This guy's clearly, I mean, you clearly care about him. He's probably been really nice to you.

Y'all have an intimate connection. Y'all are a connected group. You've been dating for a year, right? And that's heavy and hard. Is he your first true, real love? Yeah, because, yeah, he's actually like the first guy. I don't know if I can say this on the show. You say whatever you want. We're way past that. Yeah. He's the first. Yeah. Annalise, make sure you're talking into your phone, OK?

OK, yeah. He's the first guy I've slept with because um you know in college I just felt like I'm pretty average looking and then I didn't want to do it with anybody because I felt like you know everybody's drunk and blah blah blah it's just like and I didn't feel like the first choice and I just didn't want to be like in that situation. So listen to me, listen to me, listen to me. Okay. There's a lot of emotional hooks in here. This is a do not pass. Go don't collect $200. I want you before, um, we're having this call at the beginning of a week. I don't know when it's going to release,

but we're at the beginning of a week before the next 48 hours goes by's going to release, but we're at the beginning of a week. Before the next 48 hours goes by, I want you to reach out to a counselor, okay, with a professional to walk you through. This is going to be a mess, okay? Will you commit to doing that? Yeah, I just don't know, like, because, you know, I really love my mom, and I know that I don't want to keep hiding this from her, you know.

That's right. Oh, man. Yeah, you're going to need to, you're worth more than the way you have been told. You're worth more than how much you've been told you're worth. And you have infinite value and infinite strength. You just don't know it. And I want you, and people have not given you that. They haven't told you that. They haven't walked you along and given you tools and shown

it to you. And so I really, really want you to sit down with a professional and a counselor because you've got some hard conversations ahead of you. Either I am out to lunch and totally wrong, and I could be. I think it's a disastrous idea that you're dating a man that your mom dated for three years. I think it's a disaster, okay? I don't see a way this ends well. Some of the things you are telling me are cornerstone, very predatory. I don't like it. If he wants to call my show, I'm happy to talk to him. And maybe he just found the love of his life who happens to be 25 years younger, 27 years younger and knock your lights out. Great. Cool. But man, you mix in a pregnancy, you mix in a pregnancy termination, you mix in a pregnancy, you mix in a pregnancy termination,

you mix in three years, you have fractured your choices. You've chosen to fracture a relationship with your mom and he's making it really, really hard. So you're either going to have to have a hard conversation with her or a hard conversation with him and you need some tools for both of those. And that's why I want you to go talk to somebody

because here's the thing, there's other things happening right now that you and I would need to get into. It's going to be exceed my capacity to help you on this show. But hear me say, I don't have any problem. People who are dating 25 years younger, that's all fine. I absolutely think there's some predatory. So you don't just bump into somebody in a giant city multiple times unless they want to and then you tell them no and they knock on your apartment door and all of a sudden they're taking your virginity

then telling you well you're the last all of it something's off please Annalise please go call a counselor and say, I want to talk to you about keeping secrets. I'm in a mess.

To use your words, I'm over my head, and I don't have a path out, and I need some help. And let them walk alongside you, okay? We love you. Wow, what a mess. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes.

And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves.

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Don't forget to share the show And give it a great review man. It's got me all ugh. Don't forget to share the show and give it a great review on the iTunes wherever they get podcasts. I don't even let's just go to Diane. Here's a little story about Jack

and Diane in Dallas, Texas. What's up, Diane? Hey, John. How are you doing? I'm still recovering from that last call. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you so much. Good.

What is up? How can I help? You're bringing me back to life. I appreciate you. Oh, you're very, very welcome. So to give you some actual background, I was born and raised in a small town in Texas, and now I live in the Dallas area, so I've been gone from my hometown for over 20 years. But you're still in the motherland.

You're still in the motherland. Yes, yes, yes. I'm only about three and a half to four hours from the hometown I was born and raised in. Okay, I was born and raised in Texas, and they told us that Al-Qaeda is waiting for us at the Oklahoma border. And so you're still in Texas, so you're still safe, right? Yes. Okay. Yes, I'm doing very well. All right.

Thank you. All right. So what's next? So my siblings stayed in my small town and even in the Houston area. And so they continue with this very traditional and very religious mindset that is very, very similar to my parents. And then John, there's me, you know, good old me. I have marched to the beat of my own drum. I took what my parents gave me and I got rid of whatever didn't serve me.

Knowing full well that I am the one who is the creator of my own life. So for the past two years, my sister has said that she wants to be closer to me and the thought of being closer makes me cringe. Now, I will say whenever COVID happened, the actual blessing was that I could play that COVID card and do that and not spend time with her. Hey, Diane, talk right into your phone, okay?

I'm starting to lose you. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, yes, so I was able to play that COVID card all through COVID. But as you know, the COVID numbers, they're calming down. And so she's starting these conversations about us spending time. Now, John, we don't have the same views.

We don't have the same interests, lifestyle, hobbies, preferences. I don't care to hear Bible scripture stuff. I don't care to pray with her. I don't care to hear whatever the Lord has, quote, led her to tell me. And so I want to be closer to her and have a workable relationship. Yeah. But at the same time, I notice that when I'm spending time with her that I'm the one who is surviving. And I don't want to feel like I have to tolerate her in order to make her happy.

Gotcha. So what do I do? Oh, man. You're awesome. You are awesome. Okay. This is going to be simple but very, very hard. Okay?

It's going to be simple like how do you lose weight? Diet and exercise. Cool. Thanks, genius. Right? Very, very hard. Cool. Thanks, genius. Right? Very, very hard to do. Two important things. And I got one question for you before I start doling it out.

Does she want to move next to you or get close to you or reconnect with you as some sort of missionary venture? Or does she just miss her sister? What I hear her saying is that she cherishes whatever relationship we had when I was in college, which I was like 21, 22 then, and I'm 45 years old now, so my lifestyle and my views have changed

drastically, and she's still holding on to what is no longer. Okay, so here's an important conversation, a deeply important conversation that will be both challenging and incredibly liberating for you. You ready? Yes. I want you to write her a letter with the last 20 years. I remember our time in college.

We went to fill in the blank. We did this. We shared this. Here's how I have changed over the last 20 years. Here's my views on a couple of important topics that I know are going to be hard for you. I do not like it when people come at me with their spirituality that I haven't invited into my

life. I have different beliefs now. I have hung out with different people. My life looks different, and this is what it looks like. Now, this would be best if y'all got together for a meal and you read this letter to her. Ah, okay. Because, and here's why this is important. If you read it to her, she's gonna wanna interject. Well, hold on, let me, and say, I need to finish this letter.

Here's what you're doing when you have this conversation in this way. You are establishing boundaries. You are establishing strength here that I am in charge of the conversation that I'm choosing to have at this table. If you want to continue to remain at this table in relationship with me, I'm going to finish this letter. And it's subtle and it's small and it's not rude and it's not ugly and it's not you throwing things, but it's you just establishing before we have any more conversation, before I'm going to hear you, we're going to finish this

so we all know we're on the same page. Now, take all of her coming at you with all of her whatever spirituality and conspiracy, all the stuff. Would you want to hang out with her if she quit doing that? It's possible. And then I often ask myself, well, if I was hanging out with her, what would we do considering that we don't have interest in the same things?

Okay. So let me, I'm going to tell you something hard. Okay. Sounds like you've been through 20 years of deconstruction, which is okay. So, but listen, and this is, this is me coming at you hard. Okay. You cool? Okay. Um, there's a great theologian named Rich Mullins who says Christians are often as proud of the things they don't have as non-Christians are the things they do have. Meaning, he was noting that somebody can be driving around in a 1981 Honda Accord that's duct taped together and it's barely running and look at somebody in a Lexus

and go, oh my gosh, I can't believe, you know how many hungry people they could feel? I can't feed, I can't believe anyone would ever be so arrogant and pompous to drive that car. And what he would say is that is the exact attitude of the person that went and bought that expensive Lexus and looks down on the person in the crummy car for having less. Same exact issue just on the other side of the barbell. You hear what I'm saying? Now, when people go through extreme deconstruction

I've been there too I've been there multiple times It's awesome, right? What happens often Is you develop a superiority Well, I've thought through this I actually read science I've come to this

And you slowly build yourself up to where you feel as though you're looking down on, right? And what I'll tell you is that is a lonely, dangerous identity to hold because your deconstruction will one day be deconstructed too. Not that you're going to go back to the faith of your childhood or anything like that but anytime you plant a flag on top of a pile of rocks the pile will ultimately slip out from underneath you that's the that's the that's the beauty of it right and so i would love to see you come at your sister with a very humble spirit because my guess is there's a lot of deep wounds there and if you if your sister's not safe, if she's not welcoming, if she's not hospitable, if she's going to judge you

and be angry at you and hate you, then yeah, protect yourself and keep yourself safe. But the idea of, if she didn't want any of my beliefs, then I don't even know. Man, that's an exhausting front to keep up, Diane, isn't it? It is. It really is. It feels tiring. And so what I've landed on, I'll just tell you my life,

I've vacillated across a number of different, this is just the way this is. And I've done it with diet and nutrition and with exercise and with religion and with faith. I've done it with all of the stuff. Man, I'm as annoying as it gets. And ultimately where I've done it with all of the stuff, man. I'm as annoying as it gets. And ultimately where I found wisdom and more importantly, where I have found peace, both in my values and in my beliefs, and more importantly, in my relationships

is I keep my values deep, deeply ground into the core of the earth. And I keep my beliefs held really loosely. That's why I read. That's why I hang out with smart people. That's why I have conversations. That's why I go bowling. That's why I grab a beer with somebody because I want those things to change and evolve over time. And I set the rest down because I want my life to be about hospitality and entrance. And sometimes after we've run for our lives and we find ourselves safe, we have to relearn how to open the door again. And you sound angry, Diane.

Are you angry? I won't say that I'm angry, but I noticed that with her wanting to be closer that I get stressed. Okay. And so I called you because I did notice that my ego, it is kind of raging some. Good for you. And I know that I need to work on meeting her where she is because there are so many people like her in this world. And I have to keep striving on learning how to work with people, period.

You are brilliant and strong and beautiful. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. So meeting her where she's at starts with you absolutely defining your boundaries. Okay. It will be a great exercise for you to write down,

here's what I believe about the following. I believe this. I believe this. And when somebody challenged me to do this about a decade ago, maybe a decade and a half ago, I was not nearly as certain as I thought I was, as my flexing thought it was. I was like, except I'm pretty sure about this. And what ultimately underneath the ideas that I was quote unquote, super sure of, I developed a robust, I'm relatively certain,

I'm open for new ideas and I will preserve relationship at all costs. And it was the focus on relationship. Then I could say, okay, what do I need to be in relationship? I need someone who's going to be equally curious, equally inquisitive, equally not a maniac, and equally fun and laugh-filled. And that's why I've had people of all sorts stay at my home, spend the night at my house, play with my kids, their kids play with my kids, because now I'm seeking hospitality and connection truly above being right. You know what I mean? And that starts with what do I believe? So I want you to write that letter to her and then invite her into a conversation and tell her, I know you've been reaching out. I'm nervous about this. Be honest, keep no secrets. And you will walk,

if she says, I can't be a part of you, either you're in my religious cult sect thing, or I can't have a relationship with you, you'll at least know, right? You know what I mean? And you'll walk away with, you'll be sad, but you'll be at peace, which I think is, ah, what a gift, right? And if she does, she says, I'm all in. I miss my sister. Then she calls your bluff. Would that be cool?

Tell me that. Would that be cool? Or would you be more annoyed? Like you read her this letter. I don't believe this. I don't believe this. You guys are still doing this and I can't be a part of this.

Here's who I am now. And I miss my sister. I want you back. But here's the terms that's going to be under. And she said, oh, Diane, I've been waiting for you

to say this for 25 years. I'm all in. I'm all, I know we have different, we differ on things. We're going to parent differently. We're going to solve problems. We're going to love differently. All that. I get it, but I'm all in. I'm all, I know we have different, we differ, we differ on things. We're going to parent differently. We're going to solve problems. We're going to love different, all that. I get it, but I'm all in.

I'm your sister. Would that make you weep with joy? Or would you be like, no, I want you to run away. How would that feel? Well, I want to say what I think I will feel. And at the same time, I have to acknowledge that because it hasn't actually happened yet, that it, that it isn't real. But I think that for her, that I would end up weeping with joy hearing that from her. Oh, wow. So here's what I'll tell you. As the great Esther Perel says, all relationship is a risk. And marriages that are 50 years old is a risk every morning. And brand new, I just met you and I got the butterflies in my stomach. That relationship's a risk too. Risk with our family members, our brothers and sisters and moms and dads are such a risk.

Relationships with our kids, such a risk. And you are worth that risk, and so is she. You're worth that risk. Yes. And can I tell you this? You have done so much heavy lifting, you're going to be surprised at how strong you are. Like, I can't, my gratitude for you is overwhelming because you've been on a hard journey. And most of this you've done alone, huh? Yes, I have. No one has joined me, John, so it's been me.

Hey, can you grieve that for a second? That stinks, man. That's hard. It's lonely. Yeah. And nobody went with you, and they should have. Exactly. sat at home by myself and listened to my dumb chickens, right? Or you're in Dallas and it's like, man, I've been on this spiritual journey and this existential journey and I've been reading and learning all by myself.

Where were y'all? You know what I mean? And I think sitting in that for a second is important. Not that it's going to drum up rage against your sister, but just it puts your body into a more honest position with itself, right? And as Brene Brown says, man, shame eats secrets for breakfast. So moving forward, we're going to enter into this. We're going to try to reenter into this relationship. No secrets, just love, just boundaries, just straightforwardness, no secrets. Because Diane, you're worth being a sister to,

your sister's worth having sisters. And my hope is that y'all can reconnect. Even if y'all have feet in different places, y'all can reconnect. Will you give that letter and that personal meeting a shot? I will. Thank you. All right. Last word. You ready? Yes. Practice. Have you heard me say this on the show?

Yes, practice. Yes, John. And so I've been in Toastmasters for eight years. Yes. So I will tell you that I cherish and I look forward to practice, and I know how critical practice is. So, yes, I'll make sure that I go through that confronting practice. No, no, no, no, no.

That's not even what I'm talking about. Okay, number one, you've been a Toastmasters, which is a whole other level of incredible. But listen, you're going to have to practice asking for forgiveness. And you're going to have to practice saying you're sorry. You're going to have to practice saying, hey, you're starting to evangelize me again, and I just want my sister.

And she's going to go, oh, okay, yep, yep, yep, yep. And she's going to invite you to church at her church that you don't care for. And she's going to be doing it out of a place of hospitality and love. And you're going to have to remember, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's because she loves me. And you can say, no, thank you. I'm not going to be able to make that. But thank you for inviting me. You're going to have to practice being a 40-year-old sister.

Got what I'm saying? Because when you've gone through a season of deconstruction, your radar gets finely tuned to anybody with different thoughts, anybody who's pressuring you, anybody who might have hurt you in the past. And you're going to have to learn to detune that sucker down because you're reentering into a relationship that you're going to have to practice. It's been a long time. It has. It has. I've been going from my hometown well over half of my life. So yeah,

it's very different for me whenever I go visit family. Oh, dude. It's very different. Yeah, and they dump you back in the old role right away, right? And, oh, dude, yes. The worst. The worst. But, man, hey, I'm so proud of you.

Incredible. Incredible work you've done. Now it's time to practice reconnecting, which, oh, it's going to be tough with your sister. Here's what I think is going to happen. I think you're going to read that letter. I think you're going to write the letter and you're going to weep more than you're angry.

Because I think a part of writing that letter about here's what I believe and here's what y'all put me through as a kid and no one's came and got me. I think there's a lot of sadness in there.. I think there's a lot of sadness in there. And I think there's a lot of loneliness in there. And then I think reading to your sister, it will be a love letter of,

here's me for 20 years. You haven't known me. Here I am. And there's going to be something exposing about it, something super uncomfortable about it because you're coming, you're standing up and saying, this is me. This is who, this is what I believe. This is who I am. This is how I've grown. This is how I've

ungrown, right? And it's going to be exposing. And then you're going to look at her and say, do you still love me? You know everything about me now. Do you still love me? And my gut tells me she's going to reach across that table and y'all are going to hug like you haven't hugged in a couple of decades. That's my hope. That's my hope. You're worth the risk. Thank you so much for the call, Diane. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life,

you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show and with the one and only John Legend. People have told me I look like him and sing and play the piano almost identical to him. And by people, I mean, no one's ever, ever said that. They've

never confused us. He may be the best looking guy on planet earth. And then he sings and it's like, golly, man. John Legend, she doesn't have to know. And it goes like this. Oh, stealing moments just to be with you, though it's wrong. It's hard to tell the truth. No, she don't have to know. She don't have to know. When I meet you, I got my shades on to cover up my eyes.

Just to cover up my eyes. I'm hoping that nobody sees me passing by. Through my disguise, I still know you recognize. But you, I know you got a little secret of your own. Yes, you do. You know it's wrong. Sneaking out on me while your man's at home. You know you're wrong, but it's still so strong.

Still carrying on. I see what you did there, Jenna. Well done. We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode, Insider Baseball. Do y'all trim your eyebrows? Every once in a while if I have to, but rarely. I've got a large

forest growing atop my eyes, right? And so I do every once in a while. When I'm getting, like, at a barber, he said, trim your eyebrows, and I was like, sure. And as he started trimming them, I literally started laughing. Like he took so much off, I can run faster. But now they're growing directly forward.

I can let you borrow some of my eyebrow gel. You're officially on friendship probation. Effective immediately, Kelly. I just have a question about my sneaky, sneaky 12-year-old. You have the only sneaky 12-year-old in the whole world. She takes my clothes. She takes my makeup, including my eyebrow gel. I'm going to put a hard no on that one.

You've got to draw the line somewhere, Sarah, and that's it.