The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m in Love With Two Men

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: -       A woman falling for the man she’s having an affair with -       A mother struggling with her son’s pattern of violence -       A wife sick of her husband’s addictive behaviors Lyrics of the Day: "Trust" - Chris Stapleton Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm in love with two men at the same time, and it's very difficult. What's difficult about it for you? Because I love my husband. You don't. Hold on, hold on. You don't. And you have hurt him, so that ship's sailed. I don't want to leave my husband, but I don't want to break things off with this other gentleman either. What up, what up, what up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. A show about your mental and emotional health and your marriage and your kids. All of it. So glad that you're with us. On this show, we talk about everything. We talk about living with people who are hard to live with we talk about finding love we talk about your mental health whatever's going on in your life

I'm here for you we'll sit with you and we'll figure out what to do next if you want to be on the show give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 it's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask

couple of housekeeping notes this is super important number one here is a new segment called I was wrong I was wrong here's what I was wrong about well there's probably a bunch of things but here's the big thing so I had a caller

Kelly do you know when that caller was I don't have it off the top of my head, but if you'll give me a minute, I can find it. Okay. We had a caller who called in, and she was going through just hell. She was really in a messy situation, and I asked her why she was still staying in what was an abusive marriage. And she said there were some pretty wild laws about divorce and her estate that she had to stay in this house. And I told her, I said, that cannot be right. Can't be right.

It's madness. What if you end up getting killed? Like, right? Well, I was wrong. I was wrong. And I was on the phone this morning with my great friend, Mike, who's a brilliant attorney in Texas, and just talking through divorce law. If you don't know, divorce laws is state by state. It's not federal. And you would think things are very similar. Turns out across the

country, they're not. And I've been working with somebody who is, or walking alongside somebody, it's probably a better way to say that. I had a no fault divorce, very simple. And it took a magnitude of thousands of dollars, more than I thought it was going to, and it took probably 5x the time that I thought it was going to take to get this thing settled. And so all that to say, I was wrong. I was wrong. I'm going to look for a great family law attorney and see if we can have him on the show.

I get a lot of questions about law and kids and breakups and divorce. So I'm going to see if I can find somebody who could come on and tell me some of these things that are going on in different jurisdictions across the country, different states, and some of the things that individuals go through behind closed doors when it comes to the divorce process. So Kelly, we'll put it in the show notes. We'll just put it in there. But if you want to go back and listen to the call, I got some really gnarly messages about how mean I was and how stupid I am. That's fine. I get that. And I was clearly wrong about the divorce. I was wrong. I was wrong. I did not know that some states are run by morons. So, let's go out to Columbia, Tennessee and talk to Melissa.

What's up, Melissa? Hey, Dr. John. What's up? Just a lot of mess going on. Uh-oh. Tell me about it. Husband, we've been together for about seven years. Got married last year.

And about six months ago, I entered an affair with another man. Okay. And at this point, it started out as something fun. I know that's stupid. But it turned into something a lot more emotional than I expected. And now at this point, I just, I don't know what to do. I mean, I do know what to do, but I don't know what to do at the same time. Like, I know cheating on my husband is wrong.

But at the same time, I have really deep feelings for this other man. And I'm in love with two men at the same time, I have really deep feelings for this other man. And I'm in love with two men at the same time. And it's very difficult. What's difficult about it for you? Well, it's because I love my husband. You don't. Hold on, hold on. You don't.

And you have hurt him. So that ship sailed. Like, what's hard about it? I just don't know what to do at this point. My husband doesn't know what's going on. The other gentleman does know that I am married. And I don't want to leave my husband, but I don't want to break things off with this other gentleman either. So let me give you another side to this, okay? So, number one, I don't think you love your husband.

I don't. I think you love the idea of the security that seven plus years of quasi-stable relationship brings. I also think, because, well, I'll just leave it at that. I also think deep down you understand that you are with somebody of so little character that he doesn't mind blowing up another family so he can hook up with somebody. So I think you found yourself in like a pretty, pretty dicey moral dilemma. And this isn't who you want to be, is it? No, it's not. I mean, I consider my, I've never done anything like this in my entire life. Hold on, hold on. I don't care about that because you are right. you are right now.

You are right now. And so we can say those kind of statements to make ourselves feel better in the moment. Let's don't do that. Let's don't try to like numb over this moment. Okay. It sucks. And so I don't see a way where all of this doesn't end in ash.

Maybe it does. If you go back to your husband, you cut this off and you never talk to this stranger again as long as you live, ever. And your husband chooses to build something new with you because your marriage as you know it is over.

It's over. Completely burned to the ground. And if y'all choose to build something else, cool. Or you leave your husband of one year plus six years and you make a life

with this dude, then you're always gonna know he's the kind of guy that really doesn't care. He'll blow up somebody's family just to get his. It's both and, right? Yeah. So, like, you called knowing probably what you're going to do. What are you going to do?

I I'm going to tell my husband what's going on and let him make the decision. No, no, no, no, no, no. He doesn't let him make the decision. No, no, no, no, no, no. He doesn't get to make this call. You got to be a grown woman.

You made the decision to blow up your house and you made the decision to find true, true love finally with this dude. Where'd y'all meet? The gym. Of course. Is he a personal trainer? He's not. Okay.

Let me ask you this. What was it about seven years with the guy that became your husband? What about that relationship? It's been difficult. We've had a lot of ups and downs. I suffer from mental illness. I'm a recovering drug addict. Okay.

So he's been with me through a lot of stuff that I felt like I owed my life to him for pulling me out of everything. I don't feel like we're compatible in a lot of ways because I like a lot of emotional touch, a lot of affirmation, and I don't feel like I get that. Have you ever been really specific and clear with him about what you need? Several times. Okay. And he's good for a couple of days, and then he just kind of falls back into old habits.

Okay. Why did you marry him? I felt like I owed it to him, honestly, for everything that he went through with me, hospital stays, rehab, that kind of thing. So I just felt like I owed it to him to stay with him because he stayed with me through a lot of crap that most men wouldn't have. Yeah. I think relationship and love out of obligation eventually runs out of gas. Yeah. And sometimes what seems like the kindest thing to do can end up being the cruelest thing.

Because he's been to hell and back with you, and he saw something in you seven years ago that you couldn't see in yourself, right? Right. And he took that trip, and instead of you having the harder conversation saying, honey, I'm not going to marry you. I'll always have a place for you in my soul. Like you walked alongside me through some darkness.

And also, I don't think we were meant to be romantically involved for the rest of our lives to build a life together. Both of those things can be true. And that might sound mean, but it's just him being honest. But look him in the eye and say, I do forever. And then immediately finding somebody new to hook up with, that feels more cruel, right? Mm-hmm. What is it about your home that makes you feel like you're slowly suffocating?

It feels very controlling in a way. My husband sees every dime that I spend. I have no access to any of our financial accounts. I get an allowance of what I can spend every week. And he still, like I said, he sees every dime I spend. So he's your dad. He's not your husband. Right?

I don't go anywhere. I mean, yeah, it feels that way sometimes. And I've told him that. You're not allowed to go anywhere? Not without telling him where I'm going. So you're in an abusive controlling relationship. It seems that way sometimes, yes. Okay.

Here's what I want you to do, okay? I want you to go find somebody to talk to today before you talk to anybody. Do you have somebody? I have a... I mean... You have a counselor in town. You need a neutral third party. I do have a counselor. Um, it's my pastor at church. One of my pastors. Okay. Have you told your pastor what's going on? I have not. Okay. Man, this is hard. Here's why this is hard Oh boy, I'm gonna get myself in trouble here Alright, I was just gonna say it

So I need you to sit down with somebody Who is not gonna immediately default to sending you back to an abusive relationship. And there are some extraordinary, brilliant, trained pastors who understand that fidelity in a marriage is bigger than just who had sex with somebody. But you can have financial infidelity and you can have, you can stomp somebody's soul out and you're not being a person of fidelity in a marriage.

And my fear for you is that you go tell a pastor, and by the way, I'm telling you right now, this other relationship at the gym ends in a supernova, period, and people on the internet will be like, you don't know, you don't know. I'm telling you right now, this ends bad, okay? So I would put that one to bed, and anybody who tells you otherwise,

like, no, just go try it out and see how it goes. They're just, that's just YOLO nonsense. Okay. But if you're a pastor, somebody who will listen to you and will hear you and will hear you for the mess that your marriage is right now and isn't instantly going to say not to stay with knucklehead. I think you should cut that one off. That's just, if you were my sister or my friend, I would say just be done with that You what you're feeling is somebody treating you on an equal playing field You're feeling alive for the first time probably post-sobriety

And it feels like love it is not it is two people that met at a gym and they're hooking up the other side of that is Uh, and by the way when you one of you has security and one of you has endless amounts of freedom You can lay together and dream and talk about the future You can do all that stuff with no strings attached because one of you's anchored in and the other one's just at sea When you end up breaking up with uh, if your husband you decide to break up, you're going to realize what a mess it is. What I'm nervous about is you go sit with a pastor who's well-meaning and says,

you have to end this relationship at the gym, fair, I agree, and you've got to go back and be subservient to a person who is abusive to you. And that's where I would challenge him. Here's the deal. You may end up with nobody at the end of this deal. And I don't know that

that's the wrong move. I don't know that that's not the right thing right now. Being alone scares me, honestly. Of course it does. Probably terrifies you. Does being in an abusive relationship terrify you? A little bit, yeah. Does being in an abusive relationship Terrify you?

A little bit, yeah You've never helped me So I've never thought of it as abusive If somebody won't let you Be a person of agency They treat you like their daughter That is controlling Now, he would probably tell me If I was talking to him on the phone

Dude, you don't know how many nights I had to go find her in an alley and the nights in rehab, the nights in the hospital. We've created a system that works to keep her alive. Is that probably what he would tell me? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Actually, I'm going to back out of all my advice, okay?

I'm not going to tell you what to do here. I'm going to tell you cheating on your husband is not right. Never. Is it? Okay. It's not okay All right I'm gonna tell you I think you should go talk to your pastor or your counselor and sit down and say Here's what's happening. Here's where I am And Here's the things that my husband does that makes me feel unsafe. And I also know that even though this other person makes me feel alive, it's a facade.

It's not real. And that you don't know what to do next. Okay? Okay. Is that fair? Yes. And do you understand I'm not yelling at you? I'm not mad at you?

I know. My heart aches for you. I can't even imagine the roads you've traveled, right? Probably not. Yeah. I'll say this. I'm glad you're still here. If you are wrestling with mental health challenges, please get under the care of a trained licensed professional. I'm going to give you three months free with my friends at Better Help and stay on the line. We'll get you a code and you can connect with a licensed counselor,

licensed therapist there that can walk alongside you. Your husband's going to get to decide if he wants to stay. He doesn't get to decide what you do. You're a grown adult. You get to decide what happens next. I'm going to ask you to

be a person of good character and to admit where you've gone sideways and to admit that you've hurt people and to also make a decision moving forward that is in alignment with your values, with who you want to be, with your character. There is no

way forward without pain. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt multiple people. It's going to be, with your character. There is no way forward without pain. It's going to hurt. It's going to hurt multiple people. It's going to be a mess. And I promise you there's light on the other side of it if you be a person of character walking through it and if you get people to walk with you. You can't do this by yourself.

Thank you for the call, Melissa. Let us know how it goes. I can't wait to hear about this one. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past,

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Go right now and change your life. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Wichita and talk to Elizabeth. What's up, Elizabeth? Yes. What's go out to Wichita and talk to Elizabeth. What's up, Elizabeth? Yes. What's up? Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Of course. I was wondering how I can recover from past trauma with my son. Tell me what happened. We, my husband and I have, I'm sorry. No, you're okay. Take your time. We've experienced a lot of abusive sort of situations with

her son. It got to the point where we have three other kids in our home and we had to have him removed from our home. Sorry. No, you're okay. Take your time. Was it due to violence or was it due to sexual predation? Like, what was it? Violence.

Is it an adopted son or a biological son? He's my biological. I had him with an abusive ex-husband. And then my husband adopted him a few years ago. How old is he? He's 11. Is he a ward of the state now? Yes, as far as I know.

What was the benefit of, and this is me, there's no judgment here at all I'm being curious I'm just interested in the procedural like the mechanics what was the benefit of waiving your parental rights signing him over to the state versus putting him in a boy's home or a children's home He's been in therapy and we've been connected with multiple people over the last... He's been here since he was four in Kansas. And where we're at, there just really isn't a whole lot. And everything we were told by health professionals and other people kind of that were with us in our situation and things, everything that was said was that the only option for those types of homes is if he's in state custody. So that was kind of a decision, obviously, we did not take lightly. Sure.

I've got some friends that run Whetstone Boys Ranch in Missouri, in South Missouri. But it's a place where troubled boys go and they live there for a year. The purpose is always reunification, but here's what I want. So that's all I know. I know about boys' ranches and I was on the board at Texas Boys' Ranch. So I get how that system works. This sounds like, I've never heard of the advice you were given, but that doesn't mean it was wrong. It sounds like this may have been a very extreme situation. Is that fair? Yeah.

Okay. So I'll tell you, I'm so sorry. Thank you. I'm sorry for the hell that's been your home. I'm sorry for the hell that was your abusive relationship. I'm sorry for the dreams y'all had, the strain that's put on your home. Sorry for the hell that was your abusive relationship. I'm sorry for the dreams y'all had. The strain you spent on your marriage. I'm sorry for this little boy

who's clearly got some major, major struggles. Yes. Man. I'm heartbroken for everybody. I'm heartbroken for this little boy. I'm heartbroken for y'all. My goodness. So how can I help you?

I'm good. Sorry. You I help you? I guess. Sorry. You're okay. Take your time. You're okay. Otherwise, how do I move on? I mean, I don't think it's, I just don't know, I guess, how to help myself, help my family, my kids. His brother's 10 years old and his little sister's four while he was in the home and now she's five.

And then my other daughter's one. Are they missing him, or is there relief in the home? How are the kids responding? Initially, during all of it, they wanted him gone because they thought we would not survive. It got really, really bad to the point where we had no choice. So here's the deal. I don't,

I'm not here to second guess your choice, okay? Yeah. I'm here to sit with a hurting mama. And I'm going to be honest, I don't know, just step by step, if your son had passed away i would i would know i would say here's what your next steps are going to look like here's what the next few years are going to look like this one's a little bit different because he's still out there right yeah and um you know the care that you would have given him and you know the care that you would have given him,

and you also know this exceeded my ability to help, right? Yeah. I just feel bad for giving up. I know. And I want you to feel good that your other three kids are safe. Yeah. So I don't see a super smooth step-by-step transition from where you are to this new kumbaya reality for a while.

It's going to be really hard. Yeah. Did you make this decision hand-in in hand with some great mental health professionals and some people who were in your corner? Yes. It's just outside of our family and the health professionals, like at our church and work. It's extremely difficult to explain the situation. And don't.

They don't get a vote. Yeah, it's just hard when, like, my in-laws, they're incredible people. They're the pastor of my husband's. They're the pastor of our church that we go to, and it's difficult for them because, and us too. I mean, when someone asks, oh, how many children do you have or how many grandchildren do you have?

So here's what, it is. Here's what people don't have to, here's what you don't have to go into detail about. You don't have to go into detail about custodial arrangements. You don't have to go into whose name's on the whatever list. You can say my oldest son.

If someone says, how many kids do you have? You can say, my oldest son. If someone says, how many kids do you have? You can say four. I have one son who's in a home for boys who grew up with really just overwhelming challenges as a young kid. Wow, my gosh, what happened? That's just not something I like to talk about. And that's it. They don't have to know the custody arrangements that you signed over and all that stuff. And here's the thing.

Let's say he gets the treatment he needs. And there is a remarkable cure and they find the right balance of medication and work and therapy and all of his stuff and he comes out at 18 and he'll be angry and frustrated and you gave up on me and all that stuff but if he's truly well and whole when he's 23 24 24, 25, he may say, wow, my mom was out of tools, out of options. And when she couldn't sleep knowing that I might go kill my brother and sister in the middle of the night, she did what she had to do. Right? So here's what I, here's a couple of things I want you to do moving forward.

I want you to never, ever say the word I gave up on him because you didn't. Okay. My guess is you probably went a little bit too long. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, probably.

Yeah. Two, don't try to wish this away. It's going to hurt for a while away it's going to hurt for a while it's going to hurt for a long while and all of this brought up that old crap from your previous marriage right yes I mean

my ex-husband left me but it's like we've been living with the ten times version of him for the last eight years. Yeah. Oh. I want you to make a regular practice of this, okay?

Okay. I want you to write a letter to him, maybe once a month, maybe once a week at the beginning. Just put it in a shoebox. Okay. And here's the fantasy, okay? And by the way, pure fantasy here. The chances of this happening are almost nil, but let's give it a shot.

Let's pretend he turns 25 one day and is functioning, been through the system. And by then he's able to speak into Alexa and AI finds you immediately and he gets your number and he calls and says, mom, I want to have coffee. Imagine you're able to slide across the table, a shoe box full of letters. And you're able to say, even when I couldn't take care of you, even when I couldn't hold you, even when I couldn't protect you, I gave you to the people that could.

I never stopped loving you. I never stopped thinking about you. And if brother and sisters ask, where's brother? Where's's big brother say he had to move away so he could get all the help and care that he need because he's very very sick and he has a kind of sick that he can't be here because it's not safe for him and it's not safe for all of us but man we sure do miss him don't we i? I miss him too. And can I tell you something really important? It's important for them to see you cry. And it's important for them to see you sad. Don't do that privately. And tell him, I miss brother. I wish he wasn't sick. I wish he was allowed to be here, but he's not allowed to be here. Okay.

And I don't want you to gloss over this. I want you and your husband every single week at the beginning of the week, sit down and say, Hey, how can I love you this week? Where are you? Maybe he'll write him letters. And by the way,

in many ways, this might be a fool's errand and this might keep that wound open for a long long time I just am of the opinion that you can't close a wound on a child like this so I'd rather face that wound head on than somehow duct tape it closed

and pretend it's going to go away because I don't think it is I think in the back of your mind you're always going to go away because I don't think it is. I think on the back of your mind, you're always going to wonder what's Bubba doing? How is he today? I wonder what his day is like today. So I'd rather head into that storm than just continue to push it away and push it away and push it away. I'll also tell you this, that when families lose a child, when families go through this kind of trauma, it puts an unfathomable strain on your marriage. And so y'all are going to have to be hyper-intentional.

Probably get some marriage counseling. Probably connect together. This once a week, how are you? How are you? He might be ready to move on in two weeks, and you might be underwater in two weeks. Both of y'all are going to grieve this differently and there's going to be days you feel so relieved He's gone and then you're going to immediately feel like a bad mom. Both of those are true. Both of those are okay Hold on that you're a bad mom is not true. It's not true at all But the feelings are both going to be valid, okay?

Oh my gosh, I hate this for valid. Okay? Oh my gosh. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I'm so sorry. If somebody listening has some literature or some, I would love for you to write in

and you can email it to the show. I'd love to get some more information. This is one of the first times I've dealt with state custody outside of some really, really traumatic mental health disorders. But I'd love to read about that. So if you have some literature on that and you can send it to the show at johndeloney.com slash ask ASK, I would love that. Elizabeth, you call anytime. Call anytime. We'll be walking alongside you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume,

seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks I want you to consider talking with a therapist

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself Where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest authentic life Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

All right, we're back. Hey, during that last break, I got some, I did get some new information here. So yes, there are some care services where young people will go to get the care they need, and they can only go if they are wards of the state. They can only get enrollment into some of these places if they're wards of the state. And can only get enrollment into some of these places if they're awards of the state. And the goal is often reunification. So the state might sign them back over to parents when the kid is stable, the family unit is stable and all that. So that's me learning some new things. I knew that kids can get taken away if parents sign them over, if they don't want to deal with it, if there's like, it shows addiction. I know all that. I know about the removal. I did not know that there are only services available to you

if they're a child's award of the state. I didn't know that. So I'll continue to learn some more information on that, and I'll bring it to you. And we've got a couple experts here. We can figure that out. So thank you all. All right, let's go out to Minnesota and talk to T-Money. What's up, Tracy? Hi, Dr. John. What's happening? Just working. A little bit of respect.

How are we doing? Well, okay. So I wrote into the show and the question I wrote in is, how do I tell my husband I don't believe in him and I can't support his dreams? I know that sounds terrible. I was going to say that's a hot take. Hot take. So here's the backstory. Okay. We've been married for eight years. We have three kids, ages seven, six, five. Prior to getting married, my husband was very responsible with money. He didn't have any debt. He worked full time. He always had other jobs, hobbies, things he was working on. He was busy all the time. After our first child was born, he wanted to start his own business and I supported him with that. He's very smart.

He's very skilled. He can do just about anything, plumbing, building, working on engines, basically anything with his hands. Hold on, hold on. This is awesome because he can build things. Doesn't mean he can run a business, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's awesome. I can make –

He doesn't have a college education to run a business. I am great at barbecue. I should open a barbecue restaurant. It's like those are two different things. Oh, boy. Okay, so he started like a mechanic shop or handyman business or something? A landscaping business. Landscaping. All right. And he probably just got a, like a spreadsheet or a piece of paper and wrote down like this many lawns times this, we're going to be rich. And you were

like, sweet. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. All right. Then life happened. All right. So then what? Yeah. Well, he's a perfectionist. so everything always takes him 10 times longer than it would somebody else, if he can even stay on task and finish it. Struggles with anxiety and ADHD. I don't know anything about those two things, so continue. I know you don't. And about six years ago, he started drinking as a way to deal with the anxiety and stress from his business.

Yeah. Um, I guess in my opinion, I feel like he prioritizes work over family and I've basically been a single mom this entire time. Um, you know, examples like being two months pregnant with our second child, I've got a six month old at home and I've got the flu and his response is,

well, I've got to go to work. Well, you're self-employed. You can't take the day off. Nope. Um, you know, that response is, well, I've got to go to work. Well, you're self-employed. You can't take the day off. Nope. That's the sacrifice you have to make when you start a business. If you want to succeed is you just have to work all the time, 16 hour days, seven days a week. But currently our situation is that we own a 15 acreacre fixer-upper hobby farm, and there's a lot of debt between that and his business,

but now he wants to turn it into a small development. Not that he knows how to be a developer. Build and sell houses on it, and I don't feel like I can support that. The appraisal came back that it's basically worth twice what we paid for it, and he thinks he can just take out more loans to pay himself. We're at the tipping point where we can't barely make the payments. And his response is to take more money out to pay the payments. All of this while he's still drinking. He's an alcoholic. He can't get things done timely. He can't stay on task. And he has more anxiety because he's behind. And so he drinks more. Accuses me of not believing in him, but he's right. I don't. He can't stay on task. And he has more anxiety because he's behind. And so he drinks more.

Accuses me of not believing in him. But he's right. I don't. I don't trust him. I just don't think this is ever going to happen. And I don't know how to have this conversation with him without it sounding like an ultimatum. I think you're at ultimatum. I think you're there.

Well, I have. I've tried. I've been there. Yeah, but you weren't serious. You already said. I don't know what my ult, I have. I've tried. I've been there. Yeah, but you weren't serious. I don't know what my ultimatum is. You tell me. I mean, I've threatened divorce and haven't walked away.

I mean, that's the nuclear option. Y'all aren't addressing the core issue here. And I think the core issue here is your husband's clearly got some emotional health challenges that he hasn't dealt with. He doesn't know how to be married to a woman with three kids. He doesn't know how to parent three kids. What he does know how to do is incredible landscaping work when he shows up and so he goes to the places where

he's reinforced he's also probably talks to a bunch of knuckleheaded dudes and watch lots of youtube about how just take your land and flip it and roll it roll it and flip it and take a second mortgage and then he locked that one and then triple stamp a double stamp and he locked that one, and then triple-stamp, but double-stamp. And he talked to a couple of buddies, and they're like, yeah, dude, yeah. And that's where he gets reinforcement. Yep. And then you come home. Do what? I call it YouTube University.

There you go. It's always been YouTube. There you go. Which has some cool things. You can learn how to fix a thing at your house, and you can learn some information. But man, Michael Jordan didn't YouTube his, well, he was not playing then. I'm trying to think. LeBron James doesn't YouTube his nutrition stuff. He hires a nutritionist and he doesn't YouTube his exercise

program. He has a personal trainer. Guys who are successful don't YouTube the depths, right? They might YouTube how to fix a door handle. All that doesn't matter. Your husband's not on the phone with me right now. The question I have before you is, how long are you going to stay on this ride and there are places to get off before divorce how many of these things have you co-signed on um because of the state we live in i have had to co-sign on everything okay even though none of it's in my name what What if you started today saying, I will never co-sign on another thing again? I have already said that.

Okay. And if he signs your name, does he have power of attorney over you? No. Okay. If he signs your name, then you tell him I'm going to call the police and say you fraudulently signed my name.

I'm going to call the bank. Has he done that? No, and he wouldn't. Okay. But this isn't about money and this isn't about your hobby farm and this isn't about development. This is about your marriage. I mean, hanging on by, by like dancing on a razor blade. What scares you about having that conversation? Do you think he's just going to walk out the door i don't do a lot of confrontation i feel like anytime i try to confront him about anything i lose the argument just because he gets angry and he yells and i basically just shut down so i just don't feel like i can even have the conversation we've tried some marriage counseling it didn't really go anywhere refuses to go back back. I've talked to him about the drinking. He says, yes, it's a problem. I'll get help when? Well, when this is done, when that is done. Well, nothing's ever going to be done. And I me and my three children Because my husband has chosen not to protect them or to protect us

I'm going to stop engaging in tit-for-tat back and forth conversations instead I'm going to write down and i'm going to give him a copy and slide it across the table After I read it to him not before otherwise, he won't listen to you. He'll just start reading and say, I can't live like this anymore. I feel incredibly unsafe. Your addiction is out of control. Your unwillingness to deal with your emotional health is out of control.

And when he starts yelling, say, I'm not going to engage in a back and forth. Not today. We can later, but not today. And tell him, if you yell, I'm going to to engage in a back and forth. Not today. We can later, but not today. And tell him, if you yell, I'm going to get up and leave. If you start going back and forth, I'm going to get up and leave. Will he at least listen to you if you sat down and had a conversation with him? I don't know anymore.

Okay. I mean, I also think he has more mental health needs than I'm aware of. And sometimes I can't tell if it's that or if it's the drinking. I can't even tell always when he's been drinking anymore. The last conversation I tried to have with him about something like this, I mean, he acted like he was psychotic. I'm punching walls, But he's far, he hadn't been drinking. I don't know. I don't know if there's something else there, but he won't go in and get evaluated. He says, I'm not going to pay somebody. He feels like it's the most ridiculous quote ever, but he said it's like paying for sex

to go to a therapist. I'm not going to pay somebody for that. That's a strange correlation that I wouldn't make, but that's cool. So you've probably heard me say this on the show, but whenever I'm sitting down and talking to someone like you, I always want to look at trends.

And this feels like over the last five or six years, this has just continued to escalate in really unsafe direction. From, hey, I'm going to quit my great job, and I'm going to strike out on my own, to it's not working out quite as much as I thought, and I'm incredible at my work, but I'm not a great boss, especially of myself, and I don't have the discipline.

And then the nerves kick in, and the anxiety kicks in, and the scatterbrain kicks in, and trying to keep up with the call that just came in on a piece of paper and I can't find that paper but I'm supposed to be somewhere and all that stuff. And the one thing that shuts off those alarms

is alcohol to a few years later and now he's punching holes through walls. So my question for you is when and where does this end? What's your line? What's your or what?'s your, or what? And more, not more importantly, but equally importantly is, what's that line for your kids?

Gosh, I don't know anymore. You're outsourcing that to him. He doesn't get a vote right this second. I'm asking you. If you were in a classroom at your local church and a man walked in and started screaming and punching holes through walls, what would you do? Thank you. Immediately. Right. If someone had taken your home finances and made it such a precarious situation that the chances of you having a home to live in this time next year are very small. What would you do?

I've kind of already done it where we are separated right now because of the weird situation we got ourselves into with this farm and we sold our house last year. Me and the kids are living with my mom and he's living out at the farm by himself. What I have told him is that I will not move back in there until you've gotten treatment. So I'm stuck kind of in this limbo point of waiting for him to get treatment while he's finishing this house out there for us to live in. Maybe that I've told him I'm not going to move into if he doesn't get treatment.

Is he going to get treatment? He says he's going to when the house is done. So his wife and his three kids, y'all just hang on? Mm-hmm. I'm going to do whatever it is I want to do whenever I want to do it. Y'all just wait at your mom's house. Yeah, that's the current situation. And with the money as bad as it is,

I talked to a divorce lawyer, but I just feel so stuck with the money that if I were to divorce him, I'm walking away negative. I mean, we both are. I don't even know how to, I mean, I'm definitely not getting out of my mom's house at that point then. I don't think you're getting out of your mom's house for a long, long time.

And my guess is if I had to fast forward a year, you have three young kids and you had a picture of what this was going to be. You married an amazing guy who went to work and kicked butt and was there for you and those younger kids as they were starting to be born. And for a number of reasons, he has taken a totally different path. And so your picture of what was going to be is now very, very different. You never pictured yourself being a single mom with three kids living back with your mother. You never pictured yourself going back to work full-time, which is what you're going to have to do.

Oh, I've been working full-time the whole time. Okay. All right. Good for you. I'm the one that supports the family. Good for you. I have the health insurance. Okay. You have all of the power here. You put food in his fridge. You got health insurance for him.

You have all of it. And your veiled threats simply haven't worked and i think there's a reckoning of i got to deal with reality he will not he he cares more about this project than he does me and the kids behavior is a language he cares more about trying to figure out another scheme and another scheme. Or let's just say he's really sick and he simply won't go to the doctor. That's probably my biggest fear. Like, I feel like if we could get over that hurdle, maybe some of the rest of it would work out a little bit. But you just said we. Have the conversation.

You said we, and that's not how it works. Right. He has to decide. And it sounds like he's willing to lose his family before he goes and gets the help he needs. Does that sound right? Well, shoot, he already has lost you. You already moved out. Yeah, it seems that way, yeah.

He talks differently, but his actions are that. Would he meet you in a restaurant? Not at the house, not at your mother-in-law's house, but just you two at a restaurant? Yeah. And just ask him, hey, I need to know what the deal is. Or put it this way, you got 30 days to go, or I'm going to have to make some different decisions. Because I need to know whether I need to get an apartment for these kids or if we need

to just make my mom's house permanent for a while for a season while I can save up some money. I got to figure out how bad the finances are and a divorce attorney is going to have to do all that for us. Or are you going to go to the doctor within the next two weeks? And if he gets up and walks out of the restaurant, then you know. Right. And if you want to be extra enabling, you can get three names of people who he could go see, he could call right away. But he can consider counseling prostitution all he wants,

but you get to make the call. Okay. What do you not like about this? Something just doesn't sound right in your soul. Is it that you just haven't come to terms with the reality of the situation or are you just holding out because you love him and you want him to come back?

What is it? It all feels like stuff I've kind of already done before. Like I've tried having the conversation. He's had appointments for counseling, for treatment multiple times that I've helped of already done before. Like I've, I've tried having the conversation. He's had appointments for counseling, for treatment multiple times that I've helped him set up. And then the day comes and he just doesn't go. He says, no,

I'm okay. I'm going to, I'll be, I'll be sober. And then a month later, then he's not. and well, then now he knows he doesn't have to,

he knows that now. In fact, when you call, he's like, oh, here we go. I got to do the merry-go-round thing again. And then he tells you all the right things. Then you leave and he gets another month or two to do whatever he wants. So it seems like the choices before you are just to make peace with this cycle. This is what it is. Or that you make some very clear time and date demands for lack of better terms. And he gets to opt in or opt out. I will file on this date. I've already moved out.

I've already told you, you have to quit being abusive. I already told you, you have to stop drinking. I already told you, you can't take any more money out. You've already wrecked this family. And by the way, if you sell the 15 acres, if it's doubled in value, and you drop the price a little bit to get it sold, y'all can get your financial situation cleared up. He's going to go from 15 acres and build in his own house, and I'm going to develop all this.

He's going to go to a one-bedroom apartment, but that's the life he chose. It looks like that's the only two paths ahead of you. You've done all the legwork. You've done all this stuff. You have to decide I'm not leaving him. I'm just not. So I'm just going to be here plodding along, giving him health insurance, doing my life. Or you're going to be very clear. Here's a piece of paper. This is my, this is what it's going to take for you. This is how I know you want to stay married to me. If not, then the attorney is going to call and we'll sell these assets

and we're going to split everything up and then we're going to go our separate ways because you clearly are more invested in this life that you're fantasizing about than you are about the kids and you are about me. I don't know many men who wouldn't take their wife and their three kids moving out as a huge alarm, a five alarm fire in their home. That's just me. Thanks for the call We'll be right back Hey, what's up? Deloney here Listen, you and me

And everybody else on the planet Has felt anxious or burned out Or chronically stressed at some point In my new book Building a Non-Anxious Life You'll learn the six daily choices That you can make To get rid of your anxious feelings

and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show. Man, today's show. Was it me? Today's show just feels like walking through like molasses. Yeah, it was heavy and just kind of like not a lot of yay at the end.

Yeah, there's not a lot of great answers to some of these challenges. Just hard stuff. Oh, man. Well, as we wrap up today's show, from my neighbor over here in Tennessee, Chris Stapleton. NYC neighbor, like, let's be honest. I was about 15 minutes away.

You've never run into him at the grocery store? Those 15 minutes might as well be 800 miles. But it sounds cool to say my neighbor. He just put out a new record and it's phenomenal.

Chris Stapleton. Song's called Trust and it goes like this. Though we jump through hoops and dance on wires, walk on broken glass and play with fire, though we're blindfolded when we turn on the light, I know everything will be all right.

If you trust in true love and you trust in time, if you trust in forever, trust this heart of mine. We can lose ourselves just like lovers do. If you trust in me like I trust in you, trust in me like I trust in you. Love you guys. We'll see you soon.