The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m Just Not an Emotional Person

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman wondering if her lack of emotions is a bad thing - A man seeking to get control of his anxiety - A wife struggling with loneliness in her marriage Lyrics of the Day: "Feeling Good" - Nina Simone Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My husband works on the road. How long has he been doing that? 15 years now he's been doing that. Do you have kids? We do, but they are growing, so 25 and 22. They're out of the home now. Okay, okay.

So you've been a single parent for 15 years? I have, yes. Yo, yo, yo. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest mental health and marriage and emotional health

and parenting schools podcast ever. Ever. So glad that you joined us. I think I just went through puberty just then. My voice cracked. Hey, I'm so glad you're with us. On this just went through puberty just then my voice cracked hey I'm so glad you're with us

on this show we take real calls from real people going through challenges at home going through challenges at work going through challenges in their marriages and relationships with their providers everybody's struggling right now and here's my promise on this show I'll sit with you and we will figure out

what happens next if you want to be on this show give me a buzz at you and we will figure out what happens next. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. And while you're at johndeloney.com, pick up questions for humans. Save your holidays. Save your holidays. I got you. And pick up building a Non-Anxious Life, number one bestseller. Just continues to fly out the door. And I want everybody to have, nothing says I love you for the holidays. Merry Christmas, family.

Y'all need this book. That's fantastic. All right, let's go out to California A and talk to the extraordinary Emily. What's up, Emily? Hey, how's it going? Partying. What are you up to? Good. I'm hiding in my car. Just loud and proud. Loud and proud. Roll down the windows and let them know. What's up? All right. So I'll just start with my question. And then, yeah, if you have questions, you can interrupt me.

But so my question is am I wrong and not showing my emotions to others and then just to explain that a little bit I wrote um I'm pretty I'm a pretty even-tempered person I don't have like big berry in my emotions like either happy or sad I'm just pretty even-keeled and more specifically when I do have emotions I don't really show them to others. I'm more private with them. And I just feel like this seems to be abnormal for like girls in general. But I've been this way since I can remember, like since I was a teenager. But recently, me and my husband, we sat down with someone and we talked with him for about an hour.

And at the end of the hour he made some comment and he said that he pegs me for someone that doesn't show much emotion and for some reason having a stranger tell me that and peg me so easily bothered me so i would like to get your insight on that well i don't know that it was like i don't think he was like, you know, uh, like working at Hogwarts. I, if he talked to you for an hour and y'all were talking about some heavy things and you didn't show emotion, he was just commenting on, uh, you don't show emotion. Maybe that's true. So it's not like he was like, you know what I mean? Like, um, so let me ask you this. Where did you learn to be even keel? I don't, I don't know. I knew you were going to ask that. And so I was, I was actually talking

to my sister about it. I don't know that I can say, I do remember like when I was young, my parents never like, like got me in trouble for showing emotion or anything. But I do remember like my mom would go visit her parents a lot and they lived out of state. So we didn't get to see them very much. And they would all be very sad when, when we would leave. And I just remember thinking like, I'm going to be the one that doesn't cry, but I don't know why. I don't know why I thought that. That was just kind of in my head. Gotcha. You showed them, huh?

I guess. I think I see it as a sign of strength, but I don't look at people that show emotion as being weak, at least not, I don't know, maybe deep down I do. So I, here's kind of my thinking. Emotions are shared in or they're expressed in a variety of ways. And I've seen people who have really awful things, right? Like gnarliest of gnarly, friends, loved ones, whatever. And they don't cry or they go into kind of a dark hole for four or five days, and then they kind of back out, back at it. And I've sat with people, and they're like, dude, everyone's telling me, like, I'm going to feel like this, or this is going to happen, and it just doesn't. I just am kind of on to the next. And so I think that that is equally a valid expression

of what your body is working through as any other you know i need to be out for five months um david kessler says grief is like a fingerprint it's unique to everybody right and so once like your body's a mode of expression it's it's unique to you what i would ask is is this a way that you either exert power in a situation and I would challenge you on like, oh, watch this. I'm not going to cry. I'm going to stuff it so far down into my soul. Just watch. Or you actually didn't feel it.

Like, I mean, I'm sad, but I don't like like my body doesn't feel like it was gonna cry um or that's a superpower that you put out into the world to protect yourself now right so it's either a way to get power or it's a way to defend yourself and if it's not then great i would tell you you have to have somebody that you tell the hard stuff to. That doesn't mean you have to cry and kick and scream. Do you have that person, those people that's not your spouse? Yes. Are you honest with them? Kind of.

Kind of. I don't know that I share easily. That's okay. I think we have a culture of oversharing. So I don't have a problem with that at all. Yeah, I do. I do. I have a group of friends that have walked through life with.

Give me an example of a time you shared what you were feeling. Well, okay. To them. So me and my husband went through a really rough patch two years ago like not between us but just in life i had some significant health problems and stuff so i would say like during that time i would share like what was going on and stuff with them would you share clinically like i've got this ailment and this I'm taking this medication or would you say I'm scared our sex life's never gonna get back to the way it was I'm scared my husband's gonna leave me um probably in between that okay yeah I would say in between that okay

sometimes people say I'm not very emotional i don't like to share my emotions and that's them giving themselves a pass on keeping secrets and those are two different things okay i'm super okay if you don't wail and kick and scream i'm a wailer and kicker and screamer kelly is not. She's not. And in fact, Kelly, and Kelly, you can pop in here. I don't want to tell your story for you, but we talked about how when she was diagnosed

with breast cancer several years ago, that she spent most of her energy making sure everybody around her was fine. That would be me. Right, exactly. But that doesn't mean you get a pass on sitting down with somebody and saying, hey, I'm actually scared to death. Yes, it does. That was Kelly. It doesn't because secrets have a biological toll they take on your body.

So do you get the difference between emotions and secrets as I'm describing them? I may not be doing a good job. No, no, no. Yeah. No, I think I do. Okay. So yeah, dude, I, I, here, here's what I would do. I would spend 30 days having a conversation with yourself in a notebook. Do you do that? No. Cause whatever you say that I'm like, how do people find time to do that? Oh, sweetheart. I have four little kids, so my time is about 30 minutes in the evening before I go to bed to do all the things. I disagree with you. That's the time you allow yourself. Okay.

Here, I don't want to speak something into the universe that's not true, okay? Because I don't want to send somebody on a spelunking expedition down into the caverns of their soul for no reason. But it is not uncommon that somebody looks at the world as it is laid in front of them. And as my friend Ian Simpkins says, if busyness is your drug, rest will feel like stress. I don't have time. I have this job to do

and this list to do, and I will get through the list and everyone has to eat and everyone has to poop and everyone has to wipe and all the dishes have to be done and all of this has to be done. And what all of those tasks, which do have to get done, they become a way to not feel. And they become an addiction because they allow me to be busy instead of to experience what I'm actually feeling about all this stuff. Because when you feel it and experience it, that's when you have a hard conversation with your husband

and say, hey, I need some help around here. Or I really wanted to be a mom and have four kids and I'm burning out too. And so can we hire a house cleaner once a month? Or can I work half a day once a week so I can talk to adults about things other than poo and pee? But if you don't ever give yourself a space, which by the way, give yourself another 30 minutes, for God's sake, right? If you don't give yourself that space, your body is keeping the score the whole time, as Vandercook says. Yeah, that's probably true. And then one day you'll explode. Have you had a good one?

A good just rip-roar? That's the thing, is I hold in and then i will i will show my emotion and probably anger or frustration gosh you you know what you could do for a living is be a producer of pretty good podcast because you're exactly like my friend kelly exactly um here's what I... I tell my husband it's dangerous when I have time to think because then like, yeah, like you said, you go down that rabbit trail.

It's dangerous when you have time to think. It's deadly when you don't. Good point. So here's your challenge. Find two or three things that you can ask him to help around the house with. And that doesn't mean he's not working his butt off around the house with and that doesn't mean he's not working His butt off at his job and that doesn't mean he's not tired either

That means there's only so much of you to go around And give yourself 30 days to write down in a journal in a notebook And it could be as simple as here's five things i'm grateful for Here's five things that I'm not grateful for. Just be honest. And it might take two or three weeks of doing this to slowly peel back some of those layers. My guess is it was not cool for you to cause a scene when you were a kid. Yeah, I don't know. I just didn't. I don't know if it was i think they would my parents

would have been fine with it but yeah no there was a sense of like we act this way in the culture we grew up in yeah so i get yeah that's probably partly true and that's not necessarily a bad thing right right but i don't want your kids feeling that energy that nuclear reactor inside your chest that's always kind of buzzing that you don't deal with except when it just overflows and becomes a volcano in your living room i don't want them i'm people worry about that explosion it's not great right when yelling and screaming and slamming cabinets or whatever it is you do. But that's not what I'm mostly worried about. I'm more worried about the day-to-day, the pervasive burn that's always there that those four little kids are wondering 24-7, what am I doing? I love her. She's so great. She never blows up at us. She doesn't

scream or hit us, but she doesn't feel safe. And that's what I'm hoping for. And that doesn't mean you have to scream and cry and have big swings and all that. Everybody's different when it comes to that. And it's okay if you don't want to overshare. You want to keep some things private just to have a couple of people that you're fully open with. Great. That's totally awesome. But there's a difference between feeling, there's a difference between emotion and keeping secrets. My guess is if you make it a regular practice to not keep secrets from your husband, to not keep secrets from two or three close, close friends, over time, your body will feel permission to feel and to let some stuff go and to drop your shoulders and to finally say some things out loud, like things that you need and things that you're frustrated by and things that you love. I'll leave you with this. If you're constantly stomping on the stuff you don't have time to deal with, I've got time for that. Then over time, you're going to also unconsciously be

stomping out joy, laughter, tons of fun,less romance with your husband. Those things get squashed too. And I want you to have it all. Have it all. Thank you so much for the call, Emily. You're awesome. We'll be right back. All right, we are back

and let's take a call that's not so close to home, like right in the booth. Yeah, that'd be great. It's a little too close for me. We're going to go with a youchie on that one. Let's go out to Omaha and talk to Jeff. Hey, Jeff, what's up, man? Hey, not much.

Just, well, took your anxiety test, and, well, I'm a little worried because I scored red in every category that there was. Retro. All right. So walk me through it, man. Well, I don't even know where to start because yeah, I think I scored a yellow in belief, but that's like, I think that's more church related or religious or I read it said worshiping stuff and I don't think I really worship anything, you know? Okay. Well, I guess besides God, but yeah. Okay. So backing out, you have a lot of I read it said worshiping stuff And I don't think I really worship anything You know Well I guess besides God Okay so backing out you have a lot of red and a yellow

Did that ring true to you Or did you think maybe the quiz is broken Well I'm thinking maybe I just think it's my normal Where other people would see it would be a red You don't get an exemption on humanity Yeah that's why I'm calling you. What's going

on in your life? Oh, I could probably tell you 20 different things. Tell me. All 20 of them. Rip them off. Let's go. Well, I was a little over excited, but I got, well, we got four kids. One's four, or no, one, yeah, one's four, one's two,

one is one, and we got one in the oven yet at 22 or 23 weeks. And then my wife moved her friend in with us, and we just have this little modular 800-square-foot home to help with bills. And I started a new job path of owning my own auto repair business that just kicked off last week so a little bit of everything I guess so I don't know how to say this nicely your body is sounds like it is working about perfectly yeah well it's been this way before all this new stuff just happened the past couple weeks but yeah i probably would have scored the same before that and it would have been a different version of the same chaos fair yeah where did you learn to live in chaos man this is an acquired taste well oh i

guess my family grew up a little bit different than my wife's, where her family's all kind of touchy-feely and talk everything, and my family's kind of like, keep to yourself. And I don't think I've ever hugged my dad before. Oh, man. But it's a normal thing. I don't feel bad about her or anything. I know, dude. But the title of Bessel van der Kolk's book is The Body Keeps the Score, whether you want to keep it or not.

Yeah. Right? And that's why I'm always, like with my kids, we have the three girls that are the oldest, which that's probably a whole headache there. But I'm always, like, I give them hugs and everything they need. So I know. Because when you have parents like that you know you don't that's not the way you want to raise them who's giving jeff what jeff needs um i'm just trying to take care of everyone i kind of like to put myself last i know and your body is

telling you that it's about to quit it's about to quit yeah why with three teeny tiny ones and then a fourth one on the way did you decide to open up your own mechanic shop well i'm really not sure because because my understanding is mechanic shops take several years to become profitable, right? Not so much because I started out on the farm we own. So we're not making payments and I'm mobile. So like I don't really have a lot of overhead. Okay. I have a buddy that runs a six-figure mobile oil change business. So I've seen that done up close and it's pretty amazing.

So cool. But you still have to build a book of business. So I've seen that done up close and it's pretty amazing. So cool. But you still have to build a book of business. Yeah. Which is why we moved back to my hometown where I grew up on the farm where I'm local. I know people in the area and I've already had quite a bit of business. But also your body may have put some GPS pins in living local and living back on the farm. It remembers life wasn't so great sometimes. Fair? Yeah, but we lived in Omaha inside the sea limits and that stresses me out like crazy, just being packed full with everyone and I like out in the open. Okay. Why in the world is this a good time for a roommate? Well, it was hard. It was a hard decision because it's my

wife's best friend. She's a single mom and she's like, she's really struggling. I think she sees it as like her own, like it's her way. I don't know. Like it's something with church. She said she prayed on it and she said that she needs to be there for her and help her and i'm not really sure i let her decide on it mostly because you know she's the one in the house you know probably sounds like but she's like the one that has to deal with it i guess more where i'm you know i'm out working more yeah that's a that's a cursory glance at it you're. But you're the one that has to come home to a devastated and exhausting pregnant

wife and a four-year-old and a two-year-old and a one-year-old and somebody else's kid. How many kids does she have? Well, she's got two, but they're one. They go to their dads and stuff.

So it's kind of off and on. In an 800 square foot house. Yeah. Cause we moved it here and hopes that we were going to start building our house here in a year or two. There's no chance you can do that. Yeah. It's starting to seem can do that. Yeah. It's starting to seem more like that. Yeah.

So here's where I think you should start, okay? That wheel, that six daily choices wheel is supposed to be a roadmap. And when all seven are read, I want you to look and say, okay, what's the easiest entry point for me here? And I know you have a lot of obligations, but what you're telling me is, to use a farm analogy, I have a ton of hay that's got to get baled out there. And your dad is telling you, I know, but you got to change the oil and put gas in the tractor. And you're saying, I don't have time for that. I got to bale the hay. And you know as well as I do that six stripes in the field, that tractor is going to park itself and it's going to brick

itself, right? Yeah. So the best thing to do to get all that hay baled is to stop and take care of that tractor and continue to take care of that tractor while you're bailing the hay fair fair okay you're no better than a tractor right now you actually are way better than a tractor but the analogy works so i want you just to look at that thing and pick all You don't get a pass on all six of them. Dude, I went down the nerd research with the scientists. I went back to old religious traditions, not just Christian, but all. I mean, dude, you don't get a pass on it.

So if you don't have one or two men in your life that you go regularly hang out with, your body knows, oh, all of this is on you. All of it. If your business fails, if your wife and your four kids plus the single mom and her two kids, if one thing goes sideways, everybody's out.

Your body knows that. And it would be failing you with that kind of stress to let you sleep all night It would be failing you if the moment you open your eyes It didn't just flood the system with cortisol because it is at war and so You have to do the hard work you move back to your hometown You got to find one or two men that you go out once a week and just go hang out with. And you're going to think, I don't have time for that.

And I'm telling you that your body doesn't have time for you not to. And then we're just going to go around. When's the last time you went to a doctor and got a checkup? Probably a few years. Yeah. It's time. Go get some blood work done. Go have your doctor check your blood pressure and give you a blood test.

Well, blood pressure. I have the hospital reaction where my blood pressure is fine at home. Then if I'm in a doctor, that stresses me out, so it goes high. Okay. Don't solve that at home inside of your 800-foot trailer. Tell your doctor that. They're not dumb, despite what some people on YouTube think. Okay? And then we're just going to go around the list.

But I want you to decide, what about choosing freedom? How much money do you all owe? Do you all have any debt? Yeah, we got debt. That's another reason why I wanted to start this new career because better money coming in. Is that actual better money? Is it real? Yeah. Okay. Actually, the few weeks I've been going, it's been a lot better. Okay. Is that include putting 25% aside or 30% aside because you're going to have to pay small business tax?

Yeah, that's still putting... After all of our taxes and deductions and everything, that's still coming out ahead. It might be for a season you got to do that and then evenings you got to drive Uber, deliver pizzas. I don't know what you can do out in the country out there, but you might have to work for a season.

Extra hard. Yeah. I've been doing a season. Extra hard. Yeah. Well, and I've been doing a side gig also besides auto repair. Great. But I want you and your wife to do that with a plan. After this call is over, I'm going to send you two copies of the book, and I'm going to send you Financial Peace University, and I'm going to send you EveryDollar app for a year. Okay?

Okay. That's going to be a roadmap across a bunch of different fronts but listen if you owe somebody money if your calendar's bananas if your house is so chaotic with six kids under the age of four plus two moms trying to figure out what's dude of course your body is singing the alarms off the wall just banging banging banging banging the alarms of course the alarms. Of course, if you call and you're like, no, dude, everything's great. I'm sleeping like a baby. I would tell you, go to the doctor now.

Something's not right, right? That is the one thing I do get is eight hours of sleep at night. I will say that. I would love for you to track that sleep. I bet it is very thin. Either that or your body has figured out the magic way to just go into a black hole as self-preservation.

All that to say is this, find one avenue and go down that rabbit hole. And I want you and your wife to sit down and be honest with the first step, choosing reality. Yes, that single mom friend of hers needs help and support and love. But three little ones plus a brand new business, plus a fourth baby on the way may not be the moment for y'all. I don't know how y'all have enough space in this little place, like just literal physical space. And so I want y'all to choose reality

and to begin to go down and say, okay, where can we choose peace over chaos? Exercise, health and healing, relationships. Y'all can't have anybody over. You get too much chaos, right? Yeah. Yeah. And you're can't have anybody over. You get too much chaos, right? Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to have to decide to choose peace in this season.

If you don't, then, I mean, it's a choice you're making. But don't blame the anxiety. Don't blame the anxiety test. Blame the world you and your wife have created. And I say blame the world. Like, it's not a bad thing. It's just a very very very chaotic life you're asking your body to do something it wasn't designed to do which is everything all at once all

at the same time while being indebted while having no exit strategy while having we hope to build in two years you didn't have a roadmap you don't even have a financial map to get there or a business plan or I need to be making this much money by this date. And I'm going to check in with these two guys once a week just to make sure I'm on track. You don't have any of that stuff. Your body is screaming at you. So hang on the line.

I'm sending you two copies of Building a Non-Anxious Life. I'm going to give you the roadmap for the finances. Allow you and your wife to get connected. You're going to have to decide, hey, if we're going to do all this stuff, we have to choose peace over chaos wherever we can. It's going to be chaotic with four little ones. It's going to be chaotic starting a new job in a new town, in a new business, in an 800-square-foot trailer. What chaotic moments outside of those two things can we begin to shed so that we don't all implode? Because as I said at the beginning of this call, that tractor is about to stop in the middle of the field, and then everybody's done.

You are worth being. Well, we'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you

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All right, let's go out to 8 Mile at Detroit Rock City and talk to Ann. What's up, Ann? Oh, not much. Thanks for taking my call, Dr. John. Of course. What's up? Well, I have some dilemmas or problems. I've been married for 25 years, and my husband works on the road,

so he is out of the home Monday through Friday, returns Friday evening. Oh, dang. How long has he been doing that? Since, let's see, it's about 15 years now he's been doing that. Woo! Yes. Do you have kids? We do, but they are growing.

So this is where the problem really lies now. They're growing or they're grown? They're growing. So 25 and 22. Okay. So they're out of the lies now. They're growing or they're grown? They're growing. So 25 and 22. So they're out of the home now. Okay. Okay. Oh, so you've been a single parent for 15 years. I have. Yeah. What is your husband? I'm a very active one at that. Of course. They kept me very busy. And so it wasn't as difficult as it is now for me um with him on the road all the time what's he do is he a driver no he works on the high electrical line power lines so he's like an actual actual stud yeah yeah gosh dude so okay so he's gone and so now that the kids are gone, I'm spending a lot, obviously, of time at home by myself and feeling very lonely.

And it's very difficult to throw a little notch into everything. He we live on the family farm. And so he has this desire to continue the tradition of farming with his, you know, that's been in the farm for generations and generations. And so his weekends are pretty much occupied with farming also. Yeah. So here's what I would recommend y'all do if you haven't already. I would recommend that you call some sort of romantic getaway weekend. Would he do that? At certain times of the year. Obviously, right now it's hard because it's harvest time, so it's even more amped up than normal.

When does harvest time roll out? It usually starts anywhere from September and goes through, depending on the weather, through November. Okay. I want you to put November 15th on the calendar. November 21st on the calendar. And that's going to go right into deer hunting season. I get it. But here's what

has to happen. Y'all have to get together and say, we've been married for a quarter century. 15 years ago, you went to do this work and I raised these kids essentially on my own. I want us to make a plan for the back half of our lives. How old are you right now? I'm 44. Okay. So you got about halfway done. Mm-hmm.

At some point, you have to have the courage to say, I don't want to continue doing this in two more years or five more years. I want to paint a new picture of what the back half of our life is going to look like. And I have expressed that a little bit and even come up with some ideas of strategies of things that we could possibly do to help some of this situation. One, obviously he can't walk away from all these years that he's put into this company either. He absolutely 100% could. Because he's in retirement. Could care less.

He's not going to lose all the retirement, is he? Part of it he would, yes. Okay. Yeah, part of it he would. What's the number? What's the number for his wife? Well, I'm willing to give up my job and relocate where he does most of the work to make this work. Okay. So to me, that's a lot because I also have established relationships and things at my work, but I can do my work other places. The need, the line of work I'm in, there's a need everywhere,

so I can find a job easily. I don't know what the, when that was brought up, it was like, well, then we have to purchase another house, and are we going to be able to afford it? And I do all the finances. Y'all are going about this all backwards. Y'all are going through, you are saying, you know, I'm kind of, what have we thought about? And like, this is, and immediately he'll kick into problem solving mode as most men do.

And he'll come up with a reason or two or three why this won't work. And then you cash out. So my question to you is, how much longer under the current arrangement are you in for? Not much. That's right. My guess is you are way closer to the end than you are letting on, or that your friends probably even know.

Absolutely. And my gut tells me he has a second life somewhere. Not with a family or anything like that. I'm not saying he's running around and has seven kids somewhere else. But he has a whole other life that you're not a part of. Is that fair? Mm-hmm. And part of you is really pissed off that he missed your kid's life Resentment, yep. Yep at the same time. You're really grateful that he's provided a good living for everybody fair

correct, you know both and and I believe with all my guts That there is a season when a and I'm going to over-genderize this, everybody hold your breath, when men go to work and do things they hate away from people they love because they have to get something done. I believe in that. I can imagine in 2008 in Detroit saying, I'm going to go find something to do because the world was imploding around everybody.

I get that. 2009 is about right. Yeah, I get that. And I think you can cheat on your wife with your job. I think you can cheat on your wife with a golf course. I think you can cheat on your wife with a golf course I think you can cheat on your wife with any number of things The challenge here is you can't control any of that What you can control is how clear you're being and I don't want you For the sake of not rocking the boat or the sake of not causing, you know this or that

I think it's time to be very, very clear. And it will probably be like a ton of bricks out of left field for him. You think? Or no? Yes, absolutely. Okay. I think you have to own that because you probably should have had this conversation seven years ago. Fair?

Yeah. Yeah. Why didn't you? You're not supposed to ask why questions, but I'm just curious. Just because I was so active with my own career at the time and very busy. And then, like I said,

the kids were in and out for a while and then they're finally established their own lives. Then I just felt like I was left in the dust. Did you also leave him in the dust? No, but I don't schedule my life around him anymore because he doesn't do the same for me. So let me ask you a hard question. Are you done? No.

Convince me you're not. When we're together, I love the time that we have. Well, of course. I mean. It has no strings to it. You can have a weekend rendezvous and fall under whatever religious dominion that you've ascribed to. And then you can go about having whatever job and day and life and friends you want. Mm-hmm. Just because you have fun on a weekend with somebody doesn't mean your marriage is solid.

I definitely know it lacks some communication. Otherwise, I would have... That was awesome. I mean, it's kind of lacking a little, you know. Yes, you've been keeping this secret for 10 years now. What keeps you from quitting your job and showing up on the doorstep of the apartment he lives in or the hotel he lives been living out of for 15 years and say i miss you so much i can't breathe probably to be honest what i've created for myself

just the stability of being able to you know i'm independent like i can support myself i know but to what end you're flexing for yourself right into the end of your marriage yeah like your words are saying no i want to fix this i want to solve this but every action i see from both of you is like no no this thing is just like a cool weekend arrangement? I think in the back of our heads, both of us are just like, when we can retire, which is in still seven years, this will be different. What's going to be different?

Just that we'll be together, I guess. I don't know, because the communication isn't going to get better on its own. No. And you're going to wake up and realize you waited your whole life to live. And you'll be 53 years old. Yeah.

And then what? Suddenly he's going to be like, all right, let's play checkers every evening together. Right. And vice versa you're just going to want like alright now we can have sex all the time really? like that's not just going to happen

right I I I mean how can I help? Is it too late for counseling? Should we do counseling? You haven't even had the conversation yet. That's what I'm just kind of stuck.

I don't know what's so hard about the conversation. That you sit down and you tell them, hey, for 15 years, you've done what you want to do. I've built an amazing career, an amazing life here. I want you home. You got six months to wrap it up. I don't care how much money we lose. I want you. Or, honey, you've worked your butt off 15 years, hanging from high wires, doing whatever it is you do. I'm quitting all this stuff. I'm out. Yeah. Or the third option is, hey, I've been a single mom for 15 years. You've been a roughneck for 15 years all by yourself. And we get together for, we hook up a couple of times a month and we sit by each other graduation.

I love you. Always will. But this marriage is over Let's just be grown-ups about it Because I love my career too much. You love your career too much and this farm And i've got half of my life left to live and I don't want to be third place behind this fantasy You have about being a farmer and you're out of town job. And you don't want to be second place to, or third place to my role as mom and dad that I created and my job as a whatever. Right. That's the third option. But I don't think it's time for counseling yet because y'all haven't even told each other the truth. Mm-hmm.

And again. The conversation needs to be have for sure. Are you going to do it? Because I'm sure he's got his stuff to say too, doesn't he? Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, it needs to happen. It definitely needs to happen. I don't.

It's either that or walk away. I mean, those are really, in my eyes, the only two options. I know, but I don't think he realizes how close you are to option B. Do you already have somebody? Nope. Not even a little bit? Nope. What about over 15 years?

Never. What about him? Same. Are about him? Same. Are you positive? I'm positive. What are you scared of then? This usually happens. Somebody is this scared to have this conversation for this long.

Is there a scared of an abusive response or they're scared of something they're going to find and they'd rather. No, I'm scared of an abusive response or they're scared of something they're going to find. And they'd rather... No, I'm scared of probably a failing. At my marriage. I come from a background of a very strong marriage. Parents have been married over, you know, well over 50 years. I know, but you're not living their life. And this is like a conversation with my son when I'm looking at like a worksheet with a zero on it.

And I'm looking at two missing assignments and another worksheet with a 50 on it. And he says, I'm so scared of failing. And I look at him and say, you are. Because the marriage isn't this thing that's way over there. The marriage is the telling the truth. The marriage is the phone calls. The marriage is sacrifice. The marriage is, I don't care what job I have.

Nothing's worth you. And that's both of you. So like marriage isn't this thing over here. It's a thousand different decisions y'all make along the way. And it's a choice to always be in service to and him always be in service to. Somewhere along the way, y'all started being in service to yourselves and here we are. I would be less worried about you failing and being scared of failing a marriage and more scared of you waking up being 45 years old on an Island, which is what I think you've done.

Right. And your kids acted as a Xanax for 15 years of loneliness and isolation and being by yourself. Fair. Yes. I think it's time to set up the conversation. And I would recommend it. I mean, after this long, I'd recommend writing it down.

You might take two or three drafts of this, but I would write it down. And I would give him a heads up and say, hey, we need to have a conversation about the state of our marriage and the state of us staying together. What? What? What?

Yeah. We need to have a conversation about the state of our marriage. I haven't told you everything over the last 15 years and I got to put everything out on the table. And I hope you'll honor me and do the same thing.

But something's got to give because the whole thing's about to fall over. And I don't know another way to do that. I don't. But a fear of failure every day, every week, every month is actually creating the future you're terrified of having. Have the hard conversation. And if it reveals a marriage that's in ash, y'all can decide to build something new. And it's going to be real hard, but it can absolutely be done.

Or if you reveal a marriage hanging on by a thread and both of you are all in, and he's like, oh my gosh, I'll quit today. Cool. Or you say, I'm out. Cool. Or both of you say, I love my job. I love my job.

I love our, we love our jobs more than we love this thing that we've created. You ought to be honest and have that conversation too. I think the time for avoidance is over. We have to head directly into this hard conflict and come up with some solutions. By the way, and you're not the only one. Most people on the planet need to do that right now. Head towards the storm.

Thanks for the call. to do that right now. Head towards the storm. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life,

you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you. So you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at John Deloney dot com. All right, we're back. Hey, as we wrap up today's show. Finally, one of my favorite singers of all time, ever, the great and wonderful Nina Simone. The song's called Feeling Good.

Birds flying high, you know how I feel. Sun in the sky, you know how I feel. Breeze drifting on by, you know how I feel. It's a new dawn, it's a new day, it's a new life for me, and I'm feeling good. Fish in the sea, river running free, blossom on a tree. It's a new dawn. It's a new day. It's a new life for me. And I'm feeling good. And I hope you're feeling good too. Love you guys. Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.