The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m Not Sexually Attracted to My Husband

Episode Date: January 3, 2024

On today’s show, we hear about: - A wife struggling to feel attracted to her husband of 28 years - A husband wondering how to support his wife who struggles with anxiety and depression - A woman unsure if she should stay close with her sketchy uncle Lyrics of the Day: "Some Things I'll Never Know" - Teddy Swims Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. We've been married for almost 30 years, and I do not feel sexual desire for my husband, and with few exceptions, I really never have. How do I fix the sexual side of my marriage? He deserved to have had that conversation 30 freaking years ago, Jane. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show.

It's a show about your marriage, your kids, your emotional, mental health, whatever you got going on in your life. You sit with real people going through real challenges. If you want to be on this show, talk about things that are going on, things that you're struggling with what to do next. You're struggling with the diagnostic. You just got a diagnosis. You're struggling with how to deal with your kids and schools. Your marriage is falling apart. Whatever's going on. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to to johndeloney.com slash ask ASK. And we are recording the show in the old year, but we are in the new year, assuming we survived. I always have this little thing that we might not make the new year, but so far we've done it. Every one of the new years I've been a

part of, we've all collectively made it. You are such a catastrophist. And I don't know if that's a real word or not, but... You know what? You're the producer. You can say whatever you want to. It's a word I made up for you. I'm a catastrophist. You are a catastrophist.

That's the name of our new band, The Catastrophists. I love it. I'm in on that. And I think that's the tattoo we should all get for Christmas. I'm buying them. That's the team gift this year.

We're all getting tattoos. Gonna have to return that gift. You can't return a tattoo. That's the team gift this year. We're all getting tattoos. I'm going to have to return that gift. You can't return a tattoo. That's not how they work. Which is why you were not in honors classes. All right, let's go out to St. Paul, Minnesota and talk to Jane. Sweet Jane. What's up?

Hi, Dr. Deloney. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. How are we doing? Not too bad. How about yourself? Not not too bad either not too bad either what's up good um i'm just gonna read my question because i'm really nervous if that's okay of course of course it is okay so my question is actually twofold number one should i be completely honest with my husband during difficult conversations about our sex life?

And number two, how do I fix the sexual side of my marriage? I have some context. Is there some context? There you go. No, let's just answer it like that. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so we've been married for almost 30 years, and I do not feel sexual desire for my husband. And with few exceptions, I really never have. We're best friends platonically, but I've never felt spontaneous or responsive sexual desire.

And I've tried prayer, counseling, porn, hormone level testing, religion, ignoring the problem completely, meditation, antidepressants, alcohol, lots and lots of faking it, and nothing has worked. So I'm worried about being 85 someday and feeling regret that I didn't experience sexual connection and desire. My husband has called me out several times over the years for not being sexually attracted to him, and I lie and deny it because I love him and I don't want to hurt him, but he obviously feels it. Yeah. Sometimes, I'll answer this in reverse order sometimes we don't want to hurt people that we love especially about a sensitive topic like this and that so much of our personal identities wound up in it right and um we hedge the truth we don't tell them the full truth because we don't want to hurt them.

And that makes them feel crazy because they feel that they feel you're not in, right? They feel the gap, if you will, relationally. And instead of giving them a hard answer that we can fix, or we can solve, or at least deal with once it's on the table, we tell them, no, no, no, no. I'm totally into you sexually, or I'm totally into you sexually or i'm totally into moving or i'm totally into how we're raising Her kids and they know something's not right. So they end up trying to fix it and solve it and then they go crazy Um, so yes to reverse answer I don't see a path forward That doesn't start with telling the truth. The question I would ask you is what about your relationship has prohibited you for 30 years To not be able to tell the truth. The question I would ask you is what about your relationship has prohibited you for 30

years to not be able to tell the truth? I think really just that I don't want to hurt his feelings. But like in my house, in my house, my wife and I know that hurting feelings, going through that pain is the only path forward to resolving whatever's on the table, which means not that we're not going to hurt each other's feelings, but we have to create a context where it's okay to say what's true. And for whatever reason, either you have taken on a maternal role with your husband, it's your job to make sure he feels okay, which is different than I want to connect with him. The second or the second is he's created a world where it's not safe for you to tell the truth in that house. It's probably more the first.

I just don't. I don't know. Maybe I'm afraid of consequences of the conversation. Like, I don't know. I think over time he said things like, well, you either feel it or you don't. Um,

and, and so it's almost like if I follow that up by admitting it out loud, then it's like kind of game over in his mind. Like I should have it or I don't have it. And if I don't have it, there's no fixing it. That's, that's the impression I've always gotten.

And so, well, that's, I mean, that's, that's, that's somebody reaching out out of pain because he's probably watched you

try a whole bunch of stuff and in his mind, he's not enough. Right? Yeah. And so it's easy to come up with some simplistic, it sounds very like a politician.

Well, it's because of this. Well, no, it's not. There's a lot of nuance there. There's a lot of stuff there. And so, it sounds like you, you're asking for two things. You want to preserve this marriage as it is with your quote unquote best friend in the world. And you also don't want to be 90 and wonder what it would have been like to have a reckless, wild, sexually romantic marriage.

Right. And it's almost like if you tell the truth, you know this thing's over. Or at least the illusion, the fake thing y'all have had is over. Right. That's true. So I don't know if I need to, I don't want to preserve the fake thing anymore, though. Yeah. Not.

That's why I'm calling. Well, I'm never going to tell somebody to continue to lie about something that's not right. Okay. I'll never tell them that, which means you got to deal with the hard, gnarly truth on the back end. And that's scary too. It's been going on for three decades. Let me ask you a hard question. What else have you not told him the truth about?

You don't want to hurt his feelings because there's more than just this. Um, I mean, I guess there's just, you know, normal marriage stuff. I mean, no, no, no, no. Stuff that annoys me. So stuff that annoys me. And I, I just don't say anything because I think he thinks it's part of his personality. And I, I, again, no, I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to like squash who he is. Um, so you, you've always been to, I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to like squash who he is. So you've been to...

I don't want to diagnose anyone. Go ahead. Well, you finished what you were going to say. I don't want to diagnose anyone because that's your job or somebody else's job. But he has a lot of things that I would consider ADHD-ish like, you know, timeliness, over-talking, interrupting, over-sharing, kind of a verbal diarrhea, you know, type thing. And it's, you know, it's like an embarrassing feeling sometimes when we're with other people. And so I avoid being with other people with him over the years. Not that, you know, we're hermits or anything, but, um, I don't know. Some of those things I've just never, I mean, I maybe brought

them up very mildly, but I just always kind of back off of them. I don't tell them how much it's bothering me, you know, and what effect it's had on me. I hate that for you, and I hate that for him. I really do. But I feel like if I tell him, he's going to be like, well, you basically don't like anything about me, you know? Yeah, but he deserved to have had that conversation 30 freaking years ago, Jane. Because he could have done something different with his life,

and you could have done something different with his life and you could have done something different with yours or one of the this is anecdata behind closed doors is when i meet with people with adhd especially couples what i often hear is my god this person's bananas and it's tough to live with and my god when they are plugged in, they're the greatest lover on planet earth. But you haven't given y'all. I mean, geez, I often don't say this, but you've, you've perpetuated. Why have you stayed in this? What do you, what did you get out of it? I mean, we get along. No, you don't. You do not. Jane, you don't. You know why you don't like him? You don't like him. He's a kid to you. He's your child.

He's an adult son. You don't like how he is in public. You don't think his jokes are funny. You think they're inappropriate. He doesn't, he's late to stuff. You're not attracted to him. You don't want to sleep with him. He's not your friend.

He's like a pet, right? I'm just using your words give me something back no i i i can't refute a lot of that i do find him funny we're in sync he's a good dad i mean like there's a lot of things that i do appreciate about him where but you don't you don't like him. I don't like some of his behaviors. I didn't say I didn't like him. But you don't like him enough to tell him the truth for three decades.

And here's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he's perfect in any way. And he's got a lot of stuff to change. I'm speaking as a guy who struggles with some of the things he struggles with. And I'm so blessed that I had a wife sit down with me while she was still my girlfriend. And then early on, and then as we figured it out later, to just be honest with me about how she was experiencing me. And then I can't imagine waking up 30 years and knowing that most of the romance in my life has been fraudulent. Because I know what it's like to go to bed at night thinking the whole thing is your fault.

And it's just, I mean, God, dude, it's, it's, it's. So, yes, you have to tell the truth, period. Okay. Okay. The second thing is, is I don't know a lot of intimacy. I don't know anyone that can experience deep intimacy, especially over time with a lie. That's the big secrets are the gap. And first you said you've never felt sexually attracted to him.

Well, I mean, I did when we were dating, obviously. And first you said you've never felt sexually attracted to him. Well, I mean, I did when we were dating, obviously. Not obviously, because I would have said, obviously you've told him the truth for 30 years and you haven't done that. Do you find yourself sexually attracted to other people? No, I mean, no. Okay. I mean, if I see like a really good looking guy, am I going to turn my head? Well, yeah.

I mean, I'm human, but not like I'm pursuing other people or anything. No. No, I'm, I'm, is he is your husband for 30 years. So he's the bear in the brunt of the weight of your, your lack of like the gap between how sexual you want to be and what's actually happening in real life but my question is are you would you classify yourself as someone who is asexual just I'm not into it or it just

I have gone through this and this and this and this and I'm not into it or I'm just not into it with that guy and there's a difference there. I think probably the there I think probably the latter but I don't really know let's play this out you and him break up tomorrow

you just call it and you immediately get tender and you swipe right and some other dude swipes right and y'all meet up do you think that would be the that would be the alchemy you've been looking for? That there's somebody else out there that you would feel rambunctiously sexually attracted to? I don't know. Probably not.

I guess I don't know. I have no idea. I've not thought about that, honestly. You have to have thought about it some, because you've spent a lot of time thinking about it not being him, right? Or maybe you haven't at all. I just want it to be in our marriage. I feel connected to him. I'm connected to him.

We've been together for almost 30 years, right? And I, I want to do the right thing here finally, maybe, or not maybe I do want to do the right thing for his sake and for mine, you know? Yeah. Um, so let's be real specific about your needs. What, what are they? If you had to, if you had to write down on paper, here's my sexual needs, what are they? I want to be connected to him and feel like he's connected to me. For 30 years, you've not allowed him to be connected to you. So let's go deeper than that. That's an amorphous answer, right?

So that starts with telling the truth. But let's get beneath that. Be very specific. What are you missing? You don't like how he smells? You don't like him without a shirt on? No. What is it? All of that is fine.

I mean, he's attractive. Don't get me wrong. It's not like, you know, either one of us is, I don't know. There's no, like, body issues or anything. I don't know. I need romance, I guess, a little bit. I need... You know,

I guess romance maybe is a starting point. And when somebody says romance, that often means... Normally, I would just sit here and make you like... I would make you go through the motions of, I want to be specific about the things I believe would lead to this erotic attraction. And you've been through a lot. You've been through all the normal things that people do when they Google like, hey, what do I do?

Right? You've been through all the normal things that people do when they Google like, hey, what do I do, right? But often those are tactics or they are specifics or they're focused on the act once the bedroom door closes, right? And when somebody says romance, often what they mean is I need a different context. I need my life to feel and look different so that I can be erotic inside this world that you and I are co-creating. Okay. Does that sound right or no? It does sound right, but I don't know how to, I don't know what to do with that. Um, do you know what I'm saying? Like, how do I,

other than being honest with him. Ta-da! That's step one. Here's the hard place you find yourself. You're going to have to sit down to a man that you love, that you've spent probably more time with him in your life than you have without him. Is that fair? Yes. And you're going to have to say, I your life than you have without him. Is that fair? Yes.

And you're going to have to say, I haven't told you the truth for about 30 years. Okay. And from that conversation, and it will be devastating. One, because he's hurt you for so long. He didn't know he was. Two, the dishonesty. This is going to be a hard, hard path.

His world will be uneven. He won't be able to stand on the foundation that he thought his life was. And in a weird way, it'll be such a great relief. I've talked with couples before that say things like, I wish she would just tell me she's cheating on me. Then I wouldn't feel so insane. We'd have to deal with the infidelity and I'd have to get a new life and all that. But God, at least I wouldn't feel like I'm crazy. And so, but when you do this, have this conversation,

you're going to have to be specific about what has to happen in this new marriage you'll have to build because you're not going backwards to when y'all were dating. You're going to have to decide, we're going to build something totally new. And that's where you have to be specific in this new marriage. Here's what romance feels and looks like to me. You're on time to things. You help pick up the kids. There's never dishes in the sink after I cook dinner. You've got to go get a job.

You have to quit drinking after, you know, you see what I'm saying? The specifics. And then after 30 years, he needs a roadmap to your heart because he thought he was there and he is not. Okay. That doesn't mean that this is all going to fix your sexual dysfunction.

It's going to give it a chance. Right. The last question I have for you is this. Do you want to feel sexual desire or do you want to want to feel sexual desire towards him? And do you get the difference in that question? Not entirely, no. I would love to want to live in New York City. The energy, the fun, the constant noise,

and like all of it. I'd love to want to do that. It sounds like it would be fun. I don't My wife would love to love My wife would love to want to go to punk rock shows with me They're too loud and I like mosh pitting even though i'm old and she doesn't like that, right? That's at step one

The other side of it that's not step one, but that's that's step one the other side of it that's not step one but that's one side i want to want to live in new york but i don't like it i like nature and i like trees and i like the woods and i like a slower pace okay that's why i like texas to like i want to get in shape well cool then there's a thousand plans out there to go get in shape i'm gonna follow one of those plans and the shape part will take what will happen does that make sense yeah it does so which one do you which where do you find yourself do you just want to want to be romantically attracted to him? This is not going to happen. Or no, I want to, I'm going to deal with this hard stuff.

And then we're going to go try to make that happen. No, I want to. Okay. All right. That at least tells me I'll have a chance. Okay. Otherwise your honesty conversation is totally different. Okay. Okay. otherwise your honesty conversation is totally different okay okay

can I ask you one more question before we go when you met with the therapist they didn't tell you this um I mean they didn't say you gotta be honest and tell the truth I think they were I mean... They didn't say you got to be honest and tell the truth?

I think they were playing off of my reluctance, maybe, or just giving in to my reluctance, to be honest. Maybe, I, no. Not in that straightforward manner. No one said that to me, no. I'm sorry, man. You got really bad, bad support and care. It's brutal, man. You got really bad, bad support and care. It's brutal, dude. If I'm you, here's how I would start the conversation.

I would say, we have to have a hard conversation. It's going to take a few hours, and it's going to be tough for you to process. And I haven't cheated on you. The marriage isn't over. So I didn't do anything. I didn't spend a million. The marriage isn't over. So I didn't do anything. I didn't spend a million dollars. Like, and also I want to be married to you. I want to love you the best I can.

And I want to give you a roadmap to love me. And for 30 years, I've withheld that roadmap and I'm sorry. And in fact, I'm still figuring out what it is. But there can be no intimacy. There can be no new marriage. There can be no relationship without me first being honest with you. So we're going to start. We're going to re-pour the foundation today and it's with honesty

and I'm going to go first. And then he may need silence. He may need a week. He may need what, who knows what he'll need, but I want you to be gracious enough and give it to him. And he's going to come back with a bunch of questions. He's going to first think, well, what else have you lied about? What else this?

Be prepared for all that and be prepared to say, in this new marriage I want to build, here's some things I'm going to need so that we can build an erotic ethos in this home, a home that pulses with romance, that pulses with desire. And that starts with us building something totally new. And for everybody listening, for God's sakes, you have to tell the truth in your marriage, period, even when it's hard, especially when it's hard. Lying never solves a thing in a marriage. We'll be right back. It's time to talk about Organifi. All right, here's one of my main life goals. I want to be as healthy

as possible for as long as possible. I want to be that old semi-balding guy in the back of the mosh pit. I also want to be that old guy dancing with his beautiful wife into my 80s. I want to be able to roll around with my grandkids in some WWE-style wrestling match into my 90s. That's why right now I exercise, I work on my friendships, and I try to eat and drink things that only have safe, high quality, high integrity ingredients. And this is why I love Organifi. They're incredibly selective about what goes into their whole food blends. And Organifi gives you ingredients with integrity, plant-based, certified organic, vegan, dairy-free, soy-free, and glyphosate

residue-free. By the way, that's a pesticide you don't want anywhere near you. And it's simple to get the health benefits with Organifi. You just mix with water or your favorite beverage and drink it down. You can take their green juice first thing in the morning to balance stress and get ready for your day. And you can take Organifi Red Juice in the afternoon or before a workout for natural sustained energy and endurance. And I love my happy drops every day for natural mood support with saffron extract. Go to Organifi.com slash Deloney right now to save 20% off at checkout with code Deloney. That's Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com slash DELONI and code DELONI for 20% off. All right, let's go out to the Ute, Salt Lake City, Utah,

and talk to Chad. What up, Chad? Hello, Dr. Deloni. My question today is how I may empower my wife. Well, tell me some more. Empower her for what? Well, she's been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and ADD and takes medication for all of those and has done for quite some time. And I question her intention with it. She doesn't seem any conversation we've had, or even the doctor that prescribes the medication to her encourages her to go get help outside of just taking the medication.

But she's pretty reluctant to seek counseling. And I'm questioning if I'm doing a disservice for her when I go to pick up her medication and I'm not encouraging her to go get more than just taking medication kind of help. And I'm really just looking for ways that I can help her. It doesn't seem to be a whole lot out there. That's tough. How long have you been married, Jed? Well, I've been married for seven years,

but we've been together for 10. I may be crazy, but I hear in your voice that you are out of your mind in love with her. I am, yeah. And you're scared to death. Am I crazy? No, you're not. I absolutely adore her.

She's beautiful. It's difficult to tell her that because she's hesitant to hear it. She's like, stop. I know she struggles with body image as well. That kind of gets in the way of things. And so, so here's a, let's just play that one out, right? One of the challenges with loving somebody, let's, let's pull these apart real fast.

Somebody who struggles with body image issues is, we think that, Oh, you just need to hear that you're beautiful. Right. And actually that can make the gap between us wider because they're like, oh, you don't see it, you're crazy. Yeah. Or you're lying to me too, right? Or somebody is struggling with depression,

it's easy to be like, oh, let's go do something fun, look how beautiful it is. And that actually in a weird, perverse way separates us even further right yeah i know exactly what you're saying yeah i hate that for you man because it sounds like she married a guy who loves her like in a wild way and has just been trying hard and so dude on behalf of men everywhere who love their wives and are just trying to do the next best right thing, I'm grateful for you, man. Pretty awesome.

I appreciate your apology, man. Thank you. Well, this is one of those things that you can't just go to your buddies and talk about it. And so you end up doing a lot of this alone. And I talked to millions of men across the, not millions, but countless men across the country, and they're dealing with the same thing. I'm trying to love my wife behind closed doors.

Right? And I don't know what to say. Complaining about her does no good either. Like it's, it's difficult to have conversations with like guys I work with because everybody wants to complain or something. And it's, and I,

I'm to that point. I, I, I feel like I don't want to contribute to that anymore. I just, Hey, listen to this. So one time,

um, it was 20 years ago. Yeah, it was probably right at 20 years ago. He's become a close friend of mine. His name's Eric Peters. He's a musician and a painter here in Nashville. And we were doing some things together, and I was on stage one night, and I was making a joke about my wife.

And my wife and I had been barely married. And Eric is a small guy and I'm a big loud mouth idiot and he's a smaller guy and kind of quiet and very uh very artsy artistic he's amazing and he just like casually said hey you know what there's two kinds of husbands husbands that spend time making fun of their wives and husbands that will never say a negative thing and he said don't be the first kind the world has enough of them that's for weak men and i remember thinking dude i'm gonna try my best to not say anything negative about my wife especially public ever now that's not mean i don't talk to my closest friends or a therapist or something but

anyway i applaud you brother for not contributing to being like yeah dude to mean I don't talk to my closest friends or a therapist or something, but anyway, I applaud you, brother, for not contributing to being like, yeah, dude, my girl, don't be that guy. I'm proud of you, dude. That's awesome. Okay. Let's walk through this. So the word empowerment simply means I want to give her what she needs. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I got that. I often listen to books that you recommend to your callers. And one of those books was by Terrence real. I don't want to talk. Yeah. Yeah.

I got this idea about, um, empowering my wife. Cause he said, that's one of the things he does when he recognizes like a depressed husband, he'll, he'll immediately like empower the wife. And I was like,

that would just was like, Oh my gosh, I need to focus on that. Beautiful. Did you like the to focus on that. Beautiful. Did you like the book? I did. Yeah. That's awesome, man.

All right. So let's just define it. Empowering simply means I'm going to give her what she needs to be successful. Okay. I like it. So often we think, especially men, here's what you need to be successful, a hammer or Or a wrench because those are the only two tools we have in our toolkit, right? So i'm going to give you a couple of different toolkits fair Yep. Okay, um toolkit number one

Gosh, dude, and by the way, every man listening to this is Don't let your eyes roll through the back of your head I just want you to ask yourself is is what you're doing working? And most men will go, all right, not really. So I'm going to give you a different set of tools and you're going to be like, oh dude, you simp, you whatever, whatever. I'm telling you, one works and one doesn't. Okay, here we go. The first one is no. Telling her she needs to fill in the blank. You need to go to counseling. You need to do this. I'm not getting your meds until you, that's a failed track. Okay.

You will, you will join the ranks of a million people in her life. Perceptively her perception that a million people don't get her to understand her are coming after her. Okay. So your strange challenge is how do I remain on her team? Well, at the same time,

empower her and not enable her. Right. Oh, yeah, that's where I'm really good at enabling her. I know exactly what you mean by that. Okay, so here's what we're going to do. Number one, we're going to sit down and you're going to say, I want to be the best husband I can be. It would really help me if you dot, dot, dot. Here's what I want you to give her.

Two or three very small tasks. Can you help set up the coffee in the morning? Would you be willing to do a budget with me on Sunday nights and talk about our calendar coming up this week for me? And what you're doing is, and this sounds manipulative, it's not. It's empowering her. You're giving her a couple of small, tiny tasks so she can get a couple of small wins relationally and operationally. She can see the coffee being made.

She can see you smile after you all do a quick budget meeting or a quick calendar meeting on Sunday night. An invitation to get involved in small things. Giving her a chance to win and then letting her see it all over you. Like three days into her making the coffee in the morning, you going, hey, I just need to stop.

I need you to hear me say every single part of my morning and my day is better because you have stepped into this gap for me. Thank you. And she'll be like, Oh my gosh, it's like two seconds. And you'd be like,

I know. And it makes such a difference for me. Thank you. Okay. Beautiful. Great. Um, and so what we're looking for is a,

is a series of little wins. Okay. And you can pick whatever that looks like. I like that. Okay? Number two, ask her, hey, it's year seven of us being married. This is when husbands realize

they need to get better at what they do. Would you be willing to go to counseling with me because I want to be better at husbanding and it has nothing to counseling with me because I want to be better at husbanding. And it has nothing to do with her other than she's going to be able to contribute to help you. I've tried that, but

I don't think the context was right at the time, but now it might be better to try. If you say, hey, I don't know how to be married to you. Our marriage is falling apart. You're going through this. We need to go to counseling. Yeah, it's going better to try. If you say, hey, I don't know how to be married to you. Our marriage is falling apart. You're going through this. We need to go to counseling.

Yeah, it's going to be tough. Yeah. But hey, would you love me enough to come help me out? See how that, it's subtle, but you end up in the same place. You both end up on a couch. Yeah. Okay.

A third one is structure. Can you create a 30-minute meeting on sunday evenings Just say i'll make dinner on sunday nights moving forward into this new year But would you just do a quick run so we can talk through the week? I find myself spinning out and I get stressy and I don't want to bring stressy home So if we can just run through the calendar any dinners we have this week any workouts we need to go do, whatever, would you do that with me? But what's going to happen after month one and month two and month three and month four, of course, you're going to miss a couple of times. But what you're going to slowly build over time is this relational safety through an activity. Most people think relational safety comes from just talking a lot.

It truly comes from accomplishing a thing together. Something as small as a calendar discussion. Okay. That's great. I really like that. 30 minutes, just simple meetings starting out once a week and build on that. And let her know this is for you, not for her. Okay.

Can you help me? Because she loves you and she's struggling. And when we struggle... Go ahead. This is difficult for me to ask for help. I know it is. I, it is really tough.

I, I, I, the whole enabling thing, I try to take on so much. And, but you see, you hear me say this on my show all the time.

And, uh, Terry real talks about too. There's a dance that happens and the dance becomes somebody struggling with ADHD and depression and anxiety. They feel like their body and their feelings are bigger than their abilities. And then they marry somebody who hates asking for help and solves all of their problems all the time. And so the ability to stand up on your own

two feet never happens because I don't ever have to. And the person who is trying to achieve love, solve for love by fixing stuff never grasps it. It feels like a ghost. Every time you take and get the car oil changed or you do it

yourself or you fix the drywall patch or whatever that you earn some money. You're expecting this. Now she'll fill in the blank and it doesn't. Right. Right. So what we're doing is we're flipping the whole thing on its head. And by the way,

I'm telling you, this is all for her. This will help you too. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And there's a couple of very nerdy things that I want you to try also

that are super kind of woo-woo, but I want to give it a shot, okay? No, woo-woo is fine. Yeah, let's hear it. I want you to try four times a day right when you wake up, right before you leave, right when you get home from work,

like walk in the door or she walks in the door from work, and then right before y'all go to sleep, I want you to try SOS, skin-on-skin contact. It does not have to be sexual. You don't have to take your shirts off or anything. You can, but you hold hands under the covers.

You can just touch feet. Okay. You can hug. And when you hug, you can put your hand on the back of her neck underneath her hair and she can do the same thing to you. Okay. Skin on skin contact four times a day for about 10, 15, 30 seconds if you want to get weird. Okay. And one of those times, probably right when you get home from work or right before you go to bed,

I want you to say, hey, I read this obnoxious thing that supposedly can help my heart rate. But I want you to make eye contact with me uncomfortably and weird for about 15 seconds. Would you do that? Okay? Now, this is me going out on a limb here, okay? This is me taking one set of science and another set of science and cobbling together, and I haven't read this study, okay? So I'm hoping that A plus B will equal C here.

It might not, but I think it will. Okay. Okay. 15 seconds. Here's what, here's why there's some significant research that says, um, eye contact for somebody who struggles with social anxiety, with anxiety disorders of some, of some sorts, it actually heightens their arousal makes things worse okay and makes things worse yes but but hang on we also know that the research on anxiety suggests you have to go through it to give your body peace and so when you avoid something your body actually it reinforces the anxiety. So most of the time you hear the studies, it says S anxiety disorder plus eye contact equals a heightening of the anxiety. So it's natural to go, well, dude,

let's just avoid eye contact. But actually what that does is it makes the anxiety stronger. Okay? So here's what I want to do. I want her to begin to feel and experience you as safe. Okay? So here's what I want to do. I want her to begin to feel and experience you as safe. Okay? Okay. She probably does that intellectually.

She knows you'll fight for her. She knows you can fix stuff, right? Yes. I want her to feel that in her nervous system. Okay? I want her to feel that too, yes. Okay. So let's get weird.

Okay. And anybody listening to this I think there's a benefit to this But I want y'all to make Eye contact In a weird way And you'll laugh at first And she'll want to look away And every time

One of y'all looks away I want you to start The 15 seconds over again But here's what I want her to see I want your eye crinkles To come out And I want your eyes to soften When you're looking in her eyes.

That's it. And when it's over, be like, that's it. 15 seconds. We're done. High five. Yeah, high five, whatever. I want this to become a practice

on a daily basis and say, hey, I want to do a 30-day challenge that I heard about on some internet show. Okay? Okay. After about a week of her

helping you with coffee, filling your gas up, filling your car up with gas, whatever little small tasks you ask, hey, can you support me here? I want you to write her a letter and put it on her pillow and let her know that this week's been

one of the greatest weeks of your life. She can dismiss things that you say. People with depression and especially She can dismiss things that you say. People with depression and especially ADHD can dismiss it. Anxiety can dismiss the words or they can hear them differently than you speak them. But when we write things down,

they go back and they go back and they go back and they go back. Okay. Or maybe if you want to get super gangster, if she would actually do this, she might not. If y'all have a journal that you put on each other's pillow at night.

I'll write in it tonight. I'll put it on her journal. She can read it and respond to it. And then I'll go back to mine. Okay. Okay. I've been meaning to write a letter. I've been meaning to do that.

That's awesome. And maybe you take it out and for the start of the new year, you read it to her. And then you give it out and for the start of the new year, you read it to her and then you give it to her. Okay. I like that. Now, I want everyone listening and you two to hear, none of this was about talking to her about her depression, anxiety, or ADHD. It's not.

Okay. It's about giving her body a space and a person to go. And in a weird way, you are going to begin to grow too. Cause you already do the stuff, right? You exercise, you're, you can snap into a slim gym. You do all that stuff. All that good stuff. What I want to do is connect with her. Exactly.

Yes. And from that connection, only then can there be a conversation about, um, I'm gonna go pick up your meds. Um, or when she decides, I'll go talk to a counselor for you so you can become a better husband. Fine. I love you that much. Yeah. That maybe she extracts some benefit from it. Very nice. You've given me quite a few things here to really think about and contemplate and put into action. Cool. And by the way, it sounds weird to talk to, for you to picture your wife and to ask, to think, how am I going to help her by asking her to help me with a thing?

Yeah, it is. It's sensitive. There's some fear in me. I'm not going to lie. I have to admit, it's scary to have difficult conversations like that. I know I'm not the best at it yet. I'm reading a lot and sometimes reading a lot of books. I've read all of your books.

I've read about five years in the work making myself better. It can get overwhelming sometimes, all the information you get. Right. And I'm going to tell you, quit reading. You've already read my two books, right?

Yeah. Okay, quit reading. I just want to make sure you bought my books before i tell you that i'm just playing but listen yeah uh let's stop reading for a while let's start doing let's start doing yeah that's that's the part and sometimes that's where it gets overwhelming you're like okay now i need to start practicing these a lot of these things i'm learning about and it's like okay well i don't really know how what do you start and then it makes you you're overwhelmed and you don't even know where to begin. So dude, you just said it perfect.

If I could get every husband in the United States to say what you just said, I think our culture would change overnight. And that is, honey, I'm not very good at this, but I'm going to start trying something new. I'm still going to protect us. I'm still going to provide for us. I'm still going to take care of us. I'm still going to co-parent. I'm going to start trying something new. I'm still going to protect us. I'm still going to provide for us. I'm still going to take care of us. I'm still going to co-parent.

I'm going to do all those things. And. Yeah, I feel that with you. Okay. And. I want to practice. I want to learn how to connect with you. She's going to go, what?

We do connect. We do. Oh God, it's about sex. No, no to go, what? We do connect. We do. Oh God, it's about sex. No, no, no, no,

no. No, this is about me learning how to listen and me learning how to like practice new things. I read all these great books. I want to start practicing it. Could you help me win the following ways? A weekly meeting.

Would you be willing to do that for me? There's three things in the morning before i go to work that are just i just always find myself struggling with it would change my life if you would help me with these and by the way if she doesn't that's fine it may not be time for her yet she may still be struggling or she gets three days in the fourth day there's no coffee in there you can make it all right yeah don't take it personally yeah Yeah. But it's little wins. Little wins. I like that.

Little wins. Cool? Cool. All right, hang on the line. I'm going to send you both of the questions for humans for couples. Here's what these are going to give you guys. A just quiet path in the woods for new conversations. What we're doing here is we're building intimacy.

We are healing nervous systems. And if once a week at your calendar meeting, if y'all just have a quick, hey, let's do three questions or let's go for a drive. Let's go out to eat somewhere cheap and we're gonna do some, whatever it looks like.

Now me and my wife started driving. We've gotten several questions since. Now when we drive, we just do it. I just like it. I learned new things about my wife, the person I've been with for a quarter century all the time and vice versa. And, um, dude, I'm so proud of you. It's an honor to get to get to talk to you, get to know you. If, um, you'll try some of these things. I'd love to hear how it goes. Okay. I'd love to hear how it goes. And please make sure your wife continues with her medical care and continues to work with a medical provider who's encouraging her to go to counseling. The evidence is abundantly clear that medication plus therapy is the gold standard. So we've got to get her in there at some point, but we're going to do it a different way. Not by pointing fingers, but by opening our chests up a little bit, opening up our souls and

saying, I don't know how to do this, but let's try connecting. Proud of you, brother. I'm glad to know you're in the community with me. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with

ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves.

If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere, so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Cincinnati and talk to Jennifer. What's up, Jennifer? Hi there, Dr. John.

What's up? So my question is this hold on that was a big sigh tell me it's the holiday season and you're about to ask a really complex question without saying anything all right let's do it okay how do i approach the presence of my uncle at family gatherings? There's a long history in our family around my uncle. 20 years ago, my little brother, who was about 10 at the time, reported that my uncle had masturbated in front of him on a camping trip. My uncle told him not to tell. Police got involved, but my brother turned out to be an unreliable witness, and so the case didn't really go anywhere.

My cousin, my uncle's son, has confronted his father and alleged that he was molested by his father. So he's currently no contact with his dad, my uncle. My uncle denies all these allegations, seems very sad at the loss of all the connection. But my dad is his older brother still there yeah i'm here he's still there okay i got the text my dad is very loyal to his younger brother um invites him to our family gatherings now when he's got no plans um so i i feel so much tension about this i mean there's no legal convictions and he's this human sitting across from me at the table at gatherings

and my cousin feels betrayed that his father is still welcomed at gatherings despite the way he went through. And my younger brother, not to mention him, he still acts like nothing even happened. Should I protest that he's invited to these

things? Should I not hug him when he walks in the door? Am I complicit in this by not saying anything? Like, how do I approach this? What's my posture towards him in this? Yeah, what a mess. I think I missed something. Your brother said he just acts like nothing happened? Or your uncle just acts like nothing happened?

They both do. Everyone does. Oh, okay. Well, I think there's a clear reason why people act like that. Because your brother did something scary and terrifying and told the truth and nothing happened. Except, in a way, he got in trouble, right? When you're 10 and you have to go meet with cops and you have to do all these things and they ultimately say, you're not reliable. You get a message loud and clear, shut your mouth.

Nobody cares what you have to say. Yeah. Followed up by somebody else his age reports something. Again, nothing happened. Right. Right. So everybody has a very clear message that nothing happened. Right. Right? So everybody has a very clear message that nothing happened. Right.

Except I am from the old school where there's smoke, there's fire. And if two young boys that have a lot to lose both point their fingers in a very similar way to somebody. It's very rare like the movies where two pathological cousin and a brother get together like, hey, let's take down. That just doesn't happen. Anyway, I'm of the old school

that where there's smoke, there's fire. Do you have kids? Yeah. No. I'm the fun aunt. You're the fun aunt. Okay, so this is largely about kids? Yeah. No. Okay. So this is, this is, you're the fun aunt. Okay. So this is largely about you.

Yeah. Have you asked your cousin and your brother, their feelings, their thoughts, their ideas on all of this? Uh, I know my cousin's thoughts and feelings about it. So your,

your cousin just doesn't, won't come. Right. He doesn't have any interaction with his dad, and he thinks everyone is a huge hypocrite who acts like everything's fine, and now he doesn't come to things because his dad is that thing. Right. And his kids don't come, you know? Sure.

If I've been molested by somebody, I'm not going to let my kids be around them. Right. Right? So, yeah, let's play this back. Let's say your uncle really did do these things. A, there's more boys out there who are now men that this happened to. And think how his son feels.

To have the courage to come out and say the hardest thing you could ever say against your dad. And he lost his family over it, not the other way around? Pretty terrible. Yeah. I mean, wow. And let's just, I mean, you mentioned some pretty important things about humanity.

Of course your uncle's sad. Of course he is. He lost everything but him being sad isn't why i'm going to um in any way compromise my values i'm still gonna do what i think is right so let me ask you you this i can't give you this answer what do you think is right i mean i'm inclined to believe the children who said that an adult violated them, violated their innocence. I struggle with, I didn't invite him to my gathering. My parents invited him to theirs.

So sometimes our parents do things that, you've heard me say this a million times, behavior is a language. Yes. And so if you invite them, then you're telling me you don't want me to come. That's great. Happy holidays. Okay. I do think that's a conversation to have with your dad.

It's a grownup conversation that will be highly uncomfortable for you, but you're an adult and you can do it. Say, hey dad, I've reached a point where I can't be in his presence anymore. Okay. And so if you choose to invite him, he's your brother. I get it.

There's no legal findings. I know. But I've talked to your son. And you're choosing your brother over your son. You're allowed to do that. But I'm going to spend holidays with him and this other man's son. And by the way, I would be stunned, stunned if your dad didn't have

an inkling one way or the other. He acts like he's pretty confident. That his son just made up a huge lie about his brother? Yeah. Law enforcement.

So he swears up and down. He knows to tell when people are lying. Of course they do. You should read the data on that. Oh, I know. They're not any better than anybody else. Nope. But they're infinitely more confident than they are.

Way more confident. That's right. That's right. I'm sorry. It's a mess. It's right. That's right. I'm sorry. It's a mess. It's not fun. Yeah. I'll tell you what I would do.

I'll tell you what I would do. If I have a little brother, he's not little, he's a grown man, but I have a little brother. And if he came forward and said, it's about one of my uncles when he was 10,

this thing happened. And then I had another cousin come out and say this thing about his dad. That would be enough for me that I would choose to be with my little brother. That's just me. It's not a right or wrong. It's not up or down.

Yes, people make up things. I've been a part of those investigations too. I know that. Yes's just me. It's not a right or wrong. It's not up or down. Yes, people make up things. I've been a part of those investigations too. I know that. Yes, they do. And it's not very common. And not for multiple sources. And not when people have, when kids have so much to lose. Right, people don't get investigated.

Yeah, people don't get investigated multiple times over different years for the same thing and still be innocent. I mean, maybe. But it's just, it's a, that's why he's not in jail. Because maybe. multiple times over different years for the same thing and still be innocent. Uh, I mean, maybe, but it's just, it's a, that's why he's not in jail. Cause maybe,

right. Yeah. Um, what does your gut tell you? My gut tells me that my, that the kids told the truth. Okay. Follow your gut.

Okay. And Jennifer, I know what that means. That means truth. Okay. Follow your gut. Okay. And Jennifer, I know what that means. That means hell. I know. Yeah. And I don't like to make trouble. I know.

Trouble made you. And if your uncle actually did these things, he's the one who chose to burn down your family tree, not you. You're trying to replant it

in fertile soil. Yes, fertile soil, yes. Okay. All right. And this is all different because there's a potential child molester in the mix. This is all different because there's no repentance. There was no, I screwed up.

There's no redemption. I mean, there's nothing to be redeemed here. It's adults versus multiple kids and the adult one. Now, maybe when you meet with your dad, your dad could say, hey, I'm going to show you some evidence that you didn't know existed when you were younger. Those boys got together and made this whole thing up. So maybe that's the case.

I think there's a 0.00001% chance that's the case. It sounds more like your dad doesn't want to believe this and can't believe this about his brother. And so he chose his brother over his son and thought, ah, he's just a kid, he'll get over it. By the way, parents, if your kids come to you with this sort of, hey, this happened to me when it comes to sexual abuse, always default to believing your children first. Always. Always. That sounds really not like them. Always. Start with, I believe you. Always.

Jennifer, I'm sorry. Not by your hand, but in your lap. This mess came upon you. And. Conversations I would start my little brother. And maybe you have to start and say, I'm sorry. I believed you, but I've just kept showing up because I don't like to make trouble. And Jennifer got a pair of boxing gloves for Christmas

and so I'm going to make some trouble. By the way, everybody listening to this, this call is coming before the holidays and I'm imagining Jennifer's entering into the holiday season. And you'll be hearing this after some of these hard conversations. So Jennifer, feel free to call us back

and let us know how those conversations went. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better

respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back in an honor of Jenna. The song of the day is from the great Taylor Swift. Oh, Teddy Swims. Shoot, I saw TS and I just thought it was Taylor Swift. Learn to read. I know.

Hooked on phonics did not work for me. Yeah, because trust me, if I'm sitting here, we're not picking a Taylor Swift song. I was going to say, I was surprised. Kelly. I turned her into a Swifty, apparently. No, Teddy Swims. Phenomenal.

Teddy Swims. Song's called Some Things I'll Never Know. Walkingifty, apparently. No, Teddy Swims. Phenomenal. Teddy Swims. Song's called Some Things I'll Never Know. Walking down the street last night watching strangers pass me by. Where do all our shadows go? I guess some things I'll never know. I can fool my senses for a little while, but some things are too hard to reconcile.

I guess some things I'll never know. Like, how many tattoos does Kelly really have? Lots and lots. Oh, she's not telling the truth. Hey, stay schooled, don't do drugs. Happy New Year. Bye.