The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m Not Sure I Should Marry My Fiancé

Episode Date: February 8, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A woman shocked after learning her fiancé has been using methamphetamine - A woman wondering if boundaries are enough to keep her mother’s toxic habits out of her life - A single father fighting depression and struggling to hold on to hope Lyrics of the Day: "Always On My Mind" - Elvis Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Should I marry my fiance? I don't know. Should you? Well. The fact that you're calling me suggests that you probably don't think you should be. Correct. Right. I kind of already, yes. Really? This could be the fastest call in the show history. What's up?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. My voice is cracking because puberty is here finally. My dad said it would come at some point. Hey, we're so glad you're here on the greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast that's ever, ever existed, ever existed. If you want to be on the show, if you want to call and I may not know the answer, but I promise I'll sit with you. If you want to be on the show, talk about what's going on in your life and really like what can you do next, right?

Because that's really the only thing we can change or affect, what happens next? What's the next thing we do? Um, give me a call 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. Um, quick couple of housekeeping things. Please follow me on the Instagrams. It gives me hemorrhoids every time I ask, but please do it. Please do it. Please do it. And don't forget to subscribe. Five to review all the,

all the digital internet things. And you know what? High five. If you see me just high five, that seems like subscribing, right? I don't know. Whatever.

Let's go to Jessica in San Antonio, where they have the Alamo, which is where they have Pee Wee Herman's basement. What's up? Hey, how you doing? Good. You? I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right.

Excellent. Excellent. Usually all right is code for not very great. Well, I don't think I'd be calling if I was doing wonderful. Fair. Well played. Okay. So what's up? How can I help?

Hey, okay. So my question is, um, should I marry my fiance? I don't know. Should you? Well, hold on. Before you even tell me what's, what's going on. The fact that you're calling me suggests that you probably don't think you should be. Correct. Right. I kind of already, yes. I'm on that. I agree. Right. that you're calling me suggests that you probably don't think you should be correct right i i kind of already yes i'm on that that uh i agree right really this could be the fastest call in the show history all right tell me what's up tell me what's up okay so there's really a lot to this but uh i'll try to make it really short okay um So we have currently been dating for about two years,

off and on, very tumultuous. He lived with me for a period of time. During that time, it was rocky. He moved out, got his own place, no problem. What does tumultuous and rocky mean? Those are vague things. It can mean abuse. It can mean infidelity.

It can mean chaos, stealing your money. What does that mean? Those are vague things that can mean abuse. It can mean infidelity. It can mean chaos, stealing your money. What does that mean? Um, well, chaos, um, on my end and his, um, he's diagnosed, uh, schizophrenic. Um, and he was not on medication for majority of the time that he was staying with me. What was your chaos related to? I have some paranoid issues as well. I was on medicine for like paranoia, depression, anxiety. Okay. Do either of y'all use? So, yeah, that's what I'm getting to.

Okay. So, no, I that's what I'm getting to. So, um, no, I do not. Um, I do not. Currently I do not do anything. Nothing.

Smoke, drink, nothing, nothing whatsoever. Um, now I did in the past. Um, so I think that might have contributed to my mental problems.

What was your drug of choice? Well, preferably I would smoke marijuana, but I also did dabble in party drugs such as like Molly. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Yes, very much so, yeah. Okay. And I think that Molly, I really think, contributed to my mental paranoia, uh, paranoia.

Uh, yeah, I can frown. So yeah. So were you hallucinating? Were you seeing stuff? Not seeing things, but very, uh, paranoid as far as like, Oh, this person's following me. Um, you know, uh, my boyfriend's cheating on me, um, just all of that. Okay. So here we are, you me, just all that.

So here we are, you're engaged. After all that, you look at each other and you say, we should get married. We should get married. And they're like, yep. Yep. Sounds genius. Sounds great.

Y'all went to the IHOP and you were like, you're the one, right? Just laying over the table. All right. So you're engaged now. So he's living on his own. He said, you know, okay, we're engaged. I want to come clean. I use... Usually you come clean before, but...

Right. Hey, you know what? Here we are. We're here. We're here. Right. Okay. He says, I want to come clean.

I use meth. Okay. He says, I want to come clean. I used meth. Okay. I said, okay. I said, that makes a lot of sense. And he said, no, it was just one time. I used it when I moved out of your apartment, when I was moving my stuff out. That was the only time. However, before he moved out, I did go through his phone and I found some messages from him to an unregistered number in his phone asking for a small amount.

And I had confronted him about it and I said, what's up? Are you using drugs? No. He said, no, I'm not. I was getting them for somebody else. Okay. And it made sense to me. How could that possibly have made sense to you? Because he has a very, um, self-righteous attitude towards like my family and my family's addiction problem. addiction problems um he would talk negatively about um often often the most the most if you want to know what somebody is truly dealing with like deep behind all their masks and their their seven layers of skin you want to know what somebody's really struggling with find out what they're self-righteous about because that's what that's that's where the that's where the dragon sits to cover up that wound inside someone's

obsessed with your sexual activity or they're struggling someone's obsessed with i can't believe addicts or man they're you know i'm saying so i i but i get it so you think he's been using meth all along there's some there's some, real, some significant overlap and similarities in symptomology, right? In the way that someone who's methed out or someone who's struggling with schizophrenia presents to the world, right? Very, very similar overlaps. Right, exactly. And then that's another reason why the symptoms that I saw that I would have just attributed to a drug problem, knowing his diagnosis attributed to just his mental disorder. Gotcha.

And let's be clear, he may have full-blown schizophrenia. If he does, meth is not helping that problem. Right. Or he might not have schizophrenia at all. He might be messed up and seeing things

or experiencing things and have an unclear understanding of reality. Yeah. So here's my thought. The bigger problem is not that he's used drugs. Okay. I'm never going to tell somebody you should never marry somebody just because of things they've done in their past.

I think that's a shallow, lame way to look at the world. But I do think there are some things to be cautious of and i am much more concerned um that there's deceit there's dishonesty here um there is hiding and sneaking he's sneaking around you you're going through his phone without telling him he's doing this he's i i just the whole thing feels really, it feels like you are going to an amusement park and you're signing up for the ride that ends in a train wreck.

That's what it feels like. I agree. But I will never, ever, ever tell you unless there is abject abuse to not get married. That's a choice you have to make. Right. And if anybody who knows me knows that I will do what I want. I mean, that's just the...

Then let me take him out of the room. You are not ready to get married. I'm serious because marriage is you walking to somebody else this whole nonsense Look, dude I i'm convinced with all my guts the last 25 or 30 years all of the marriage advice if you will if you want to call it that was You have to be a hundred percent whole Before you can marry somebody

And what we have now is an entire generation of married individuals who are cohabitating their homes or co-managing their marriages or co-managing their children or co-managing their houses. And they are no more married. They're just glorified roommates who hook up less and less and less and less. And so as crazy as this sounds, the idea that like, I'm just going to get what I want, then dude, don't get married because that's not marriage. Marriage is taking a knee and saying, I will dedicate my life to making sure you're elevated. And hopefully you marry somebody who has that same sentiment and you both spend your lives bringing each other up. Right?

So yeah, you're not ready. You're not ready to get married. I just mean, as in the fact of like, no one's going to be able to tell me, you know, don't do it. And if I'm not, uh, if I don't agree with that statement,

then I'm, I probably still would do it, even though I know it's a train wreck waiting to happen. Oh, so if somebody says not that i would be not that i wouldn't be give myself to him fully and want the best for him and you know his needs and things like that but i'm just saying like as far as like if someone were to tell me no don't do it i'm probably even if i know it's going to end badly i probably so like

practically speaking stepping stepping back i would want to see um if you're my if you're my best buddy you're my sister i would want to see a you to go to some premarital counseling that includes total truth telling i would want to see a mutual commitment to sobriety. And that's not just like, yeah, that means that we're going to go to, both of us are going to go to meetings every day for the next 60 days. I want to see a mutual commitment to going after a period of 60 days of getting sober, going back to a psychiatrist getting another um mental health eval and then if i do have schizophrenia or if i have damaged myself psychologically neurologically

through my drug use and i now need support resources to be able to be a functioning member of society which is great there's no problem in that then I'm going to get the meds that I need. I would want to see, we are entering into this thing, both of us with a plan on how we can best be whole and show up for one another. Right. And based on what you've told me, that is a tall order. Well, actually no marriage counseling was in the plan as far as the— But marriage counseling, you can't just go and talk about stuff. You have to go set out a plan, and then the execution of that plan is going to be the indicator that says,

yes, we are both on a healing journey together, and we're going to do this. I think you can Here's my bigger question Less about did somebody use meth More about What is so Devastating Inside the body of somebody

That is using meth That this is helping them Get through their day Because dude Alcohol, weed, those things work. That's the deal. They work. Cooking works.

It helps pull your body away from trauma, from pain, from hurting. And it disassociates you from yourself and everybody else. It kills you over time. And so the question is not, why are you using drugs? The question is, what is going on inside of you that this is the best way your body's figured out how to cope? And that's what we're going to unwind in rehab. That's what we're going to unwind in AA.

That's what we're going to unwind in AA is we're going to unwind with a mental health professional. And then when we get all the trains back on the tracks, then we're talking, Hey, let's start making long-term plans together. And man, I think you walk alongside each other in this. You clearly love this guy and he loves you. I think y'all make other in this. You clearly love this guy, and he loves you. I think y'all make a plan to walk together, but here's the deal. If you get married next weekend, I'll cheer you on. I'll want the best for you.

I'll want it all to work out super, super great. I will never root against you. But if you were my friend or my sister, I would say, hey, let's slow the roll a little bit, and let's come up with a better plan. I wish you guys the best, Jessica. Thank you for your call. We'll be right back. All right, let's go to Stephanie in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where it's cold outside. What's up, Stephanie? Not a whole lot. How are you doing?

Good. Is it so cold? It is pretty cold today, but you know, we're used to it. What does that mean? I think it's, I mean, it's probably like 30 or something. I haven't even looked at the weather, to be honest. Nope. Nope. If it got to be 30, Tennessee shuts off. They just turn off.

Everything goes away. Oh, this is like defrosting for us, but this is not cold. That's awesome. All right. So what's up, Stephanie? Let's get to solving. Yeah. So I wanted to see if you could help me with setting some boundaries for my alcoholic mom. I already have a pretty broken relationship with her, but I really only see her around

holidays. So we are kind of coming off of the holidays. And even with those kind of like not seeing her so much, it's still kind of affects me if she's not sober or things like that. And I just wanted your perspective on what to do. So when you, when you sit, tell me about how it affects you. Let's go. Um, so like this past Christmas, we were going to get together with my brothers. Um, I have three older brothers, but one doesn't see her anymore. Um, and she is in a state of mind. I don't know if it's alcohol or other drugs that like she cannot come. Um, and so we do it without her and that's,

it's fine. I get to see my brothers and my nieces, but it's still like the next day she'll call and be like, Oh, I just didn't feel good yesterday. Can we reschedule? And I'm upset about it. I don't know. So I want to call out the first part of what you said. I think when you, y'all have planned enough events and this is something I know firsthand. Okay.

Not with my mom, but with other people that I care about. You plan something firsthand. And you make the plans. Everybody's in. There's probably some text messages flying back and forth with some extra exclamation points or some funny memes. And you do it every year. And this is what kids of addicts.

This is who people who love addicts are people who struggle with addiction this is people who are in relationship with people who struggle with addiction you allow yourself to believe this is the year and you get your hopes up a little bit then it the same thing happens and then you said the magic word, it's fine. We all get together and it's fine. And here's, let me hear you say, it's not, it's not. Mom should be there. She's not. And so then there's this air of disappointment and you've probably over the years gotten really good at taking disappointment and burying it in the backyard. And when you do that, it grows and it grows and it grows and it kind of pulls

the whole house down right it just sinks everything and then you feel crazy and then you get pissed at her and it and for me it all starts and ends with expectations yeah and i think at this point i i do i'm to the spot where i kind of expect her to not be able to come. I know, but you kind of hope she does, right? Yeah. Do you have little ones? Do you have kids? No.

And that's part of the thing. My husband and I are starting to like, that's going to be the next phase of our life. And so it's like, that would change things too. And so for me to, and so I'm kind of to the spot, do I, do I stop trying to plan things with her? Cause that feels really harsh. Um, but like I have one, I have one brother who's done that. And then I have another brother who thinks that's wrong. And yeah. Um, so I think you need a pretty robust season of letter writing to her with letters you're never going to give her. her. Here's what I'm really mad about.

And maybe for the first time, being honest with yourself and going down that rabbit hole, I'm really like angry. And that anger may be back to when you were a kid. And also I'm really, really sad. Like I miss you. Like I want my mom to come to Christmas and buy me a present and be proud of me.

And that's not madness. That's not crazy. That's not entitlement, whatever. That's just like, that's human nature. Like I want my mom to give me a Christmas present. And she won't even come because she's too stoned or too high or too embarrassed or too shameful or whatever she's feeling. I think it's important to sit in some of that. And you might need to get a counselor with that.

You might need to write those and read them to your husband and say, you can't look at me and I don't want to hit you. Whatever rules you need to come up with. Or to get a group of women or go to a group, whatever it is. But I think you need to begin to grieve it because on the other side of grief is reality. This is the way this is. I have managed this kind of thing in my life with I plan things full on and the plans I make are complete. And anyone is always welcome to be in addition to those plans.

So I set extra seats at my table, and this is metaphorical and literal. I set extra seats at my table because somebody coming extra that I didn't plan for is a bonus. It's a gift. It's not a, the whole, I don't build something on everyone's got to be here. The whole thing falls over. Right. And that at some level it's protection,

but some, some of us just be dealing with reality. And I think both of your brothers are handling it on two opposite sides of the spectrum. And both of them are not, are not dealing with reality. One of them is scorched earth dude that's your mom right and the other brother is like it's all good dude it's all good it's like no she is a person who is struggling to the point that she's hurting people that she reports to care about and then you're there in the middle right let me let me give you this you are not a bad daughter for keeping yourself and your marriage

safe you're not a bad daughter for thinking if i have a baby right now i don't want my mom around this baby and at the same time i have to have my mom with me when i have a baby right now, I don't want my mom around this baby. And at the same time, I have to have my mom with me when I have a baby. Yeah. Both of those things. Yeah. It's definitely tough because it is such a, we only see her so often. And it's just, yeah, it's a repeated. Most people in your situation spend a ton of energy propping up a fantasy that at one point the same whole thing's

going to turn around. It's going to be all good. And if I could just say the right thing or plan the right thing or get the right food or get the right meal, get the right gift, then it will all be okay. And this isn't on you. Yeah. And I'm not quite in that spot where I feel like I'm trying to get it all perfect so that we can be together and like pretend that we're a family. Cause even when she's there, it, it doesn't feel like we're a family like it's obviously broken we all know it's broken we're not pretending there's an elephant in the room it's just I don't even enjoy that like right like being it's and that's I think what I'm struggling with is like it's hard to be around her even when she's sober because then it's still

it's like our relationship I don't know that's sober because then it's still, it's like our relationship. I don't know. That's, I think, what I'm struggling with. It's like, is our relationship even something that I can spend time around her? Maybe not. Maybe not right now. Okay. And maybe she's making some choices right now where she's choosing to not be in a relationship with you.

That's probably a better way to look at it. And to truly get there, you've got to come up with, here's what I deserve in relationships. Here's what I give in relationships. Here's what I need. And if you're the child of an alcoholic, you've probably been spending your whole life trying to run around and solve what somebody else needs.

And you tend to bury your needs because there's no value to them right who cares what my needs are i've got my life is spent meeting somebody else's needs and maybe for the first time you start to ask yourself here's what i need and if she chooses to not meet meet those needs and she's choosing to not be in relationship with you and then you got to deal with that because that hurts but that's the path towards owning reality this is this is i gotta choose i gotta choose reality yeah and maybe some of the choices of choosing reality after like what i do now maybe i'm gonna get a couple of older women

in my local community that are friends of friends or a buddy of mine, her mom, or some people at my church, if you're a churchgoer. And I'm going to start making connections because I need wise voices in my life, right? I need older women in my life who have been where I'm headed. And that's just not going to be from my mom. Yeah. And that hurts so bad, I know. Yeah. Stephanie, it sounds like you're there.

What's the holdup? just the, I'm sick of going through the same things over and over again and like having the same conversations with my brothers and just like feeling we get nowhere. Like, okay. So what if you stopped then? How do you, like when, if I said no more calling your brothers, no more calling your mom, that season's over from this point forward, you're going to do Thanksgiving and Christmas elsewhere. You and your husband is going to go do your own thing. You're going to make it up as you go. You're going to go up to Traverse City, and you're all just going to have a fun weekend, and that's going to be Christmas.

That's going to be Thanksgiving. How do you feel thinking through that? Better. The times that I don't have to try to plan things with her. So what's holding you back from making that move? Because I have people that tell me that that's wrong to do. Okay. Because she's my mom.

Yeah. And I do have a brother that's a pastor. And so he also looks at that as like, that's not what Jesus would do, right? She's broken. She has this mental illness. She's not strong enough. Me not reaching out to her hurts her a lot. And I'm like, but in the back of my head, I'm like, that's the bed she made, not me.

So I go through that thought a lot of like, I'm hurting her, but it's not my fault. I think that's what I struggle with. Is the things you've done up till now helping? No. So there's this idea that I'm just an endless, bottomless pit of, I just keep showing up, I just keep showing up. And that is not about helping this situation. That's about you feeling better.

That's about your brother feeling better. Right? Yeah. Because if you want to get theological for a second jesus showed up man to people on the margins that's where i've spent my whole life is with sitting with people on the margins that everyone else says you're not lovable for whatever reason i believe in that and he also said there's a moment when you dust your sandals off and you head to the next town. When your help or support is not welcome here. And that's a fine line. I get that. And that's why I'm saying one of your brothers who just cut your mom off.

I mean, I couldn't do that. Some people could. I could do that. Some people could, I could do that. But it might be that I'm going to send a letter once a month so that my mother never forgets that I love her. And then I'm thinking about her. I'm not in a place where I can call because calls always devolve into guilt trips and why didn't you do this? And then I get sick to my stomach and I throw up

and then it brings up old stuff. So that's not a healthy move for me. It's not because I'm a coward or weak or a bad daughter. It's because it's very, very toxic. It's not smart, but I will write a letter every month reminding my mom how much I love her. I'm thinking about her and I care about you. That's it. I do like that idea. I think that's very doable. But all that starts from what do I actually need? And maybe part of what you need, Stephanie, is I need a relationship with my mom in some shape, form, or fashion. I also need to not get sucked into these two-hour vortex phone calls where I hang up feeling like the worst human has ever lived.

Yeah. Because my mom can be a vampire. Okay. So now I've got to come up with a solution between I can't just abandon my mom and I can't continue engaging in our relationship the way we have. So I've got to do something different. And maybe it's, I don't text mom. I don't, I'm not going to return texts anymore. We're just going to communicate via letter. And if you have an, if you have an emergency, please reach out. Or I will only respond to mom's text 48 hours after I get it, unless it's an emergency. And that gives me time to process it and feel it.

And then I'm not just responding out of emotion. You see what I'm saying? But this is you. Here's the magic word. Be curious about it. Don't rush to say, I'm the worst ever. I hate all of it. I'm curious about it. Whoa, my mom just sent I'm the worst ever. I hate all of it. Be curious about it. Whoa, my mom just sent me a text and it really got me all fired up. What is it about this text that is sending me down a rabbit hole? Does that make sense? And you're going to begin to learn a lot about yourself. Yeah.

How long is your mom's alcoholism as she struggled? My whole life. Okay. Yeah. Have you gone to see somebody? I have. Yeah. my whole life okay yeah have you gone to see somebody um i have yeah and um my parents got divorced when i was like nine and that's when i like went to alan on and got some help and my dad's gone through a ton of therapy as well and so it's definitely something that we've come together on like the like my dad's side of the family like

it's a big conversation we we talk it through and are healthy and cool in our own ways but yeah my i don't have like a memory of a sober mom i meant like yeah i lightheartedly joke that my stepmom is like my mom but um it's yeah it's. But has she served that role? Yeah, she has. Okay. Maybe you need to grieve that too and celebrate it at the same time. Yeah. I think you're right. Because I was supposed to be your mom and thank God somebody else stepped in to fill that gap.

Right? Yeah. That was a huge blessing. Like, yeah. It's a both and, right? That's tough. That's tough, tough, tough. It's a both and.

Yeah. I think you're right right there. It's a both and. Yeah. I think you're right right there. I think you're right right there. I just want to give you permission to put on your oxygen mask first, as the old cliche is. And that's going to look different for you in different seasons. And there may be a season when you feel strong and robust. And I'm wading into this stuff. Mom, I'm dragging you by your pigtails.

We're going to AA. I'm not having it. You may have a season like that. And there may be a season where I got to get some space and separate. And I got to make sure I'm whole and well and okay. So that I can do the hard work of heading back in. And again, you brought it up. So to get theological for a minute,

Jesus continually retreated to recharge, right? To get prayer and quiet time. And in fact, he lamented, I don't have a place to rest, man. I need to catch up. But I always get dragged back into this stuff. There comes a moment I got to step back and say, what do I need to be whole and well right now

so that I can love as best as I can moving forward? I would say, given all things, your mom won the lottery with you as a daughter. You're a pretty amazing woman, Stephanie. And I appreciate your call. Thank you so, so, so much. We'll be right back. All right. Let's go to Z in Eugene, Oregon. What's up Z? Hey, Dr. Gunn. So I recently came to find out about you. I wrote into the Ramsey show actually, cause I was struggling quite a bit and got directed to you and

you got sent over to the B team. Sorry, man. No, no, they had very nice things to say about you actually. So, and started reading your book, the, the own your Past one. And it's been, first, I just want to say you have a very good writing ability. I write, I have no books, but you're a good writer. And a lot of the things that I've read so far really struck me. As I'm going through, I'm highlighting things and sharing things with other people where I'm like, is this not true?

It means the world to me. Thank you, man. Yeah. It's been a great book so far. And, uh, uh, chapter two, especially really kind of slapped me in the face a little bit. And I was like, yeah, okay, well, I don't feel quite as crazy now. Cause this is all true. Um, but, uh, just to give you like a little bit of background about me, um, I'm 34. Today is actually my birthday. Uh, happy birthday, man. Thank you. It's, it's, it's been for quite a while. Uh, birthdays are tough.

Um, and I, I don't know why, but like, uh, so I was born on Friday the 13th and now it's Friday the 13th again. And I'm like, Oh, this is a little strange, but, um, they've, they've become hard. They've been hard for years and years because, uh, in my late teens, uh, I started to have some struggles with depression and it wasn't anything really serious at the time. But, uh, then in like early twenties, like 23 or so, it hit really hard to the point where, uh, I had to go be put in the hospital and put on suicide watch and all that kind of fun stuff. Um, and ever since then, it's been, uh, it's been a very long, difficult struggle. It's been about 10, 11 years of that where, uh, it's just like walking through a desert and the worst part of all.

Um, so after my first like real battle with major depression where it was just sucking the life out of me completely and nothing felt right. And, um, you know, you obviously are familiar with what happens. Uh, it, it, it felt like a mental cancer to me is what it felt like. I don't know what cancer feels like, but mentally that's what I felt like I was going through where I couldn't function and I, nothing felt right and nothing feels right. Um, but after the first round of that, I want to double click on that for a second. So you have a, is it that you are going through experiences and that you think should feel a certain way and your body is just not responding with the right feelings you hold somebody's hands you kiss them and the

words i've heard often is i feel i feel nothing like my heart rate doesn't get up and the adrenaline doesn't pump it's like the i'm trying to start the car and it won't start or like your legs feel like concrete and you can't get out of bed and someone could say get up dude and be like i can't move and and worse than that i mean the past two years especially it's gotten to the point where like uh you know i've i've wished for death i've death. Um, not because I want to die, but because I, I don't know that anybody dealing with a mental illness, like truly wants to die. I think they want the pain to stop. That's right. That's 100%. And so, yeah. And, and I mean, I don't want to say good things have come out of this, but some, I guess, because, uh, in the early days of this, you know, I did drink

and I did do some, some foolishness. And now I'm very careful not to do that stuff because it just makes it worse for me and probably for everybody. But so I don't do that. I don't do drugs or anything. Um, okay. So let me, this is going to sound like a strange question but alcohol worked right that definitely gave me something there you go so my question right now is like i'm really really proud of you for stepping away because you're doing stuff that you knew in the short term and the long term were no good they made you less versions of yourself but often the i'm trying to think it's i don't know if it's adler one of the famous psychologists said something profound that has stuck with me they said i thought that if i took

away my clients depression and anxiety i would make them whole and what i found is when i took away their depression anxiety i made them empty and there was nothing to backfill it and so you stopped doing these tough. What have you done in their place? I definitely, at the time I was drinking and doing dumb stuff, I was, I grew up religious and I definitely wasn't for a long time. I definitely had some anger there. I've been trying to turn that around for several years just because... Hold on, hold on.

Stop going to war with Z. I like you. Can I tell you that? Yeah, of course. I like you. Like, I think you would be my friend. Hopefully. And I...

I've been through... Dude, I've been through profound seasons, years at a time, when I was a functioning atheist. I've been a functioning atheist in religious environments where my job, like, part of my job was my belief structure. Right. And there's a difference between going to war with myself.

And it's like going outside and staring at the sky and demanding that it look green. And it's like, it doesn't. It just looks blue. And I can squeeze my hands real tight. I can bang my head against the hood of my car. Right now, it just looks green, man. I mean, this looks blue. I can't make it look green.

And so there was that switch for me. That was, I'm just going to quit going to war with myself. I will have people in my life to hold my actions accountable when it comes to belief. And it comes to feelings. My systems are just not, don't work that great sometimes.

And so I'm going to be, I'm going to hold them really, really loosely. And I know some religious structures. What I don structures, I don't know your background with that. The looser you hold it, the more they tell you you're failing and that you're hated and that you're not loved. And I want to tell you that's nonsense and it's bull crap. Yeah. It's not true.

Okay. Oh, and I've been, I've been lucky to have good people in my life who never made me feel like I was, uh, what would you call it? Like defective in that regard or that I wasn't trying hard enough. Awesome. Um, they've just been like, you know, just keep moving forward. Uh, you know, it doesn't matter. Like if you have a lot of faith or a little faith just hold on to what you have and and don't let go of it and sometimes sometimes there's going through the motions i'm gonna do the right things even though i don't know what i'm doing right so some of that too right yeah but that can feel really hollow feel really hollow yes yeah and you know the

people who have known me the longest they can tell that they can perceive that. Um, but definitely, um, so bring. She has been, uh, she's never known me without it. And she's seen a lot and probably had to put up with a lot as kids do that. I don't want to say is, uh, bad, but maybe not typical. And have you hit your kid? No. Do you love your kid? I do, yes. Do you scream and yell in her face? Actually, if you don't mind, one of the first shows I ever heard from you was about a dad who had left his daughter. And I was mind boggled the whole time. And I heard your reaction. And I was like, yeah, that's me.

I think I'd rather die than be split from my daughter. But yeah, I do love her. So let me say this. I definitely have. She's probably doing pretty good. I hope so. I do. No, I'm telling you right now.

She's probably doing pretty good. Yeah. I mean, there's some basic things you can do to hurt her outside of neglect and outright physical and emotional and psychological abuse. It doesn't sound like that. I can imagine you feel like you're talking with a blanket over your head or you're talking to her and you're underwater. That's depression, right? Right. Hey, listen to me.

She hears you and she loves you. Yeah, she definitely does. Okay. Definitely does. You have an external voice that has the stories you tell yourself. So you read that book. We have these stories we're born into. We have these stories that we're told.

And over time, those stories become the stories we tell ourselves. Yeah. And depression is that story. And the main story is just depression telling me that I've failed everybody and I've failed myself and I'm not where I should be. That's right. And all of that, none of that is true. None of it. And the challenge is how can I come to a place of belief and truth in how do I challenge

that story over time, right? And continue to function in the day to day. You got to change the oil on this car while you're moving, right? While you're driving down the road. That's tough. That's a tall order. Right. Have you reached the point

where you're done? Or let me put it this way. You're getting really close to being just exhausted? Yeah, it's been happening more and more in the past, like in the past years, especially where I just don't know

how to carry on. And I mean, she's not getting any younger either. She's going to need me even more in the future. She won't be better off with you gone. Yeah. And my promise if you're new to the show is I won't lie to you. And I would tell you if you need to get out of your child's life. I think I've done that before on this show. Your daughter will not be better off with you not here.

Your daughter has an immense ringside seat to a dad who's experiencing challenges and continues to get up and do hard things for himself and for those he loves and cares about, which long-term can be a, I can't think of a higher gift and honor you could hand your kid. And so far from robbing her of some childhood that was a fantasy to begin with, you're actually giving her some pretty extraordinary opportunities to learn and grow

and see and experience and empathize and feel she's lucky to have you as her dad I hope so I stop stop

I hope so I don't know I'm telling you and I don't know my own words but don't give. I'm telling you. And I don't know my own words, but don't give up on yourself. Yeah.

Well, I can tell you this. This is my belief. I think if she wasn't here to kind of be like a lighthouse and the, and the fog of mental illness, uh, I don't know that I would be here, honestly. I don't want to think that,

but there's been some close calls, we'll just say. Okay. Have you tried? Have I tried? I've luckily called somebody before as I was on the way to that. Good. Do you, do you promise me in front of all these people listening and your daughter

that you will always make that call? Yes, I do. Okay. And I do, you know, I just, for your own knowledge,

like I do a therapy regular. Um, I am trying to find the right medication. It's been kind of a long list of strikeouts. So there's another side to that, right? And let's just call it what it is. That's my community, right? The mental health community, that's where I was born and raised. Right, right. But there's a point on the backside of a lot of counseling and the backside of the medication merry-go-round that everything feels like a waste of time.

Yes. There's almost a compounding effect. This doesn't, it's not going to work for me. That's despair, right? Yeah, absolutely. Have they given you exercises? It's the L-dubs, man, little wins.

Have they walked you through that? Well, yes, but I've not been very good about believing it, I guess, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I heard recently, and this was a profound like, huh. Somebody was asking somebody about confidence confidence and they said after working with a bunch of leaders and people the most confident people i know are people who keep their promises to themselves right and i think one of the roots of depression is i have lost the ability to trust myself. Yeah, absolutely.

And so the step out of it, yes, can be talking about it. And yes, absolutely, finding the right medication. And if you got major depressive disorder, I'm telling you, just like if you had a heart challenge or you had knee surgery and you needed crutches for a season, finding the right medication is going to be very important. Okay? I have been there, my brother, and I'm here because of it. Okay?

There's no weakness. Anybody who's like, oh, you're so stupid, you're not. I get frustrated with my colleagues who are medical professionals who just sprint to that being the first solution on every little discomfort. That's not where you are. Okay? There's a difference between I keep eating marshmallows and I throw up and stomach cancer. Both of them are, right, challenges with your guts. One of them takes significant intervention.

The other is like, hey, how about you quit eating marshmallows? Right? So I don't want you to beat yourself up because of the interventions you might need to take to feel well. It might mean that you need to sit down with somebody and who knows about ketamine or you sit down with somebody who needs to go through childhood traumas or you need to go explore getting into medical trial for psychedelics. The treatments for irretractable depression right now are extraordinary. They're making some significant progress. The challenge is don't give up on yourself, right? Right, right. And luckily, some of those kinds of treatments I've followed up on,

they've offered a sliver of hope, which is, is something. It's awesome. So here's the thing I want you to practice on your own. Will you do, will you do this? Okay. So I want to make sure that you and I are on the same page. You are committed to staying connected with professionals, both mental health professionals and medical professionals, right? Okay, cool. I think my life depends on it, I would say. Awesome. Hey, mine too.

Yeah. Okay? Mine too. They put me under these bright lights and I'm sitting in front of a microphone, but mine too. Okay? Same team. Yeah. I want you to practice something.

Will you practice something? Yeah, of course. Okay. I want you to go to Walmart or go to Walgreens or one of these little corner stores and buy a small little journal for like nine bucks or 10 bucks. Okay. Nothing fancy. Yeah. Yeah.

And inside of it, I just want you to write little win number one and then I want it to be really really small like I will have breakfast with my daughter two times this week that's it and here's two things are going to happen

number one I will have breakfast I will be thrown I will have breakfast with her it might be that she goes out and goes to school gets on the bus and goes to school and i go right back to bed for the next two hours i will have this breakfast yeah and there's going to be a voice that says what kind of freaking loser are you you? You can only have this much of an effort to have breakfast with your daughter. God, she would have been better with any other dad in the world. I want you to write that story down. Right.

Okay. You have to begin to get those stories out of your body onto a piece of paper where you can objectively look at it. And when it takes over your your fight or flight response system there is no more rational thinking about it because your body's at war yeah okay so when that story comes cool and then here's the other story there's going to be a week that you can't make it you get up for one and you can't do it. That's when the pit opens up and you fall seven stories into the black hole, right?

Right. Before you fall, before you jump, I want you to be curious, not declare civil war on yourself so i want you to be curious about huh what was my body protecting me from this week that made that that exercise that little win really really hard and if you approach your body with a sense of curiosity instead of a sense of shame and you suck and that gets defective and uh there's a demo different chemical pathway different chemical solutions to that that makes sense it's just a posture yeah i'm gonna quit hating z because you know what nobody else does dude yeah Can I ask you a hard question? Absolutely. Have you done stupid stuff?

Absolutely. Me too! Have you been really in a dark place and thought, this is it, and then you woke up and the next day the sun came out? Yeah. Yes, me too. You're not by yourself. And maybe, maybe you've never heard this. You are worth being well, dude. Yeah. And you're worth laughing and being silly and being goofy and saying,

I'm sorry, because you're going to do more stupid stuff over the course of your life. But most importantly, you're worth not giving up on Z. This is despair, right? Continue to go down the rabbit holes for some of these new interventions. The literature out there is very, very encouraging. My private conversations with people who've gone through them,

it's extraordinary. Right. It's really magical. Okay. But you, I want to make sure, we got your promise. You're not giving up on you.

No. No. Because if I, the way I see it is if I give up on me, I'm giving up on the people I love and I don't want to give up on them. Okay.

But also, you can't run your life... Based on other people alone. At some point, you got to look in the mirror and say, I'm so glad that I'm here. As bonkers as everything is, I'm glad that I'm here. Yeah. Will you do one week of Little Wins, and then write me back and let me know that you made it yeah because if you do i'm gonna celebrate with you okay is that cool yeah yeah i'll do it and

listen when i had both my knee surgeries i had to learn how to walk again i kicked too many people and got kicked too much over the years and i had to learn how to walk again. I kicked too many people and got kicked too much over the years. And I had to learn how to walk again. And that meant I had to have two professionals, one on either side of me, holding me up while I held another little cane thing. And we took a step and then another step. Right. And I never saw to this morning the squat workout I did and then going for a run. I didn't think that was ever going to happen.

It is. And so you're going to feel stupid and small and little and less than by doing these little win exercises. All you're doing is re-teaching your body and brain how to feel. That's fair. How to win. Not even how to win. Like, how to win, bro. No, that's not what I'm talking about. But like, how to engage in life. Fair? Yeah. Fair enough. All right, my brother. what I'm talking about. But like how to engage in life. Fair? Yeah, fair enough.

All right, my brother. Hey, I love you. I love you. And you've been fighting a war that most people have no idea about. And you go to the grocery store and you're at war. And you sit with your little daughter and you're at war. And you sit in the mirror and you're at war. And I want you to know you're worthy of peace. You're worth peace. The light's not going out, man. There's still hope.

I'm glad you're with us. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, I thought Willie Nelson wrote this. I didn't know Elvis wrote this. I'm sure Elvis didn't write it either. Elvis didn't write his songs, but I believe he had it out first. Elvis Presley's Always On My Mind. In honor of his daughter passed away, huh? Yeah, Lisa Marie Presley died yesterday. That is a bummer, man. Always On My Mind.

Maybe I didn't treat you quite as good as I should have. Maybe I didn't love you quite as often as I could have. Little things I should have said and done, I just took the time you were always on my mind maybe I didn't hold you all those lonely lonely times and I guess I never told you I'm so happy that you're mine if I made you feel second best I'm so sorry I was blind you were always on my mind see y'all soon love y'all