The Dr. John Delony Show - I’m Worried My Husband’s Immaturity Is Going To Get Him Fired

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

Listen as we talk with a woman who can’t trust her husband with their newborn, a wife who’s husband’s immaturity is going to get him fired, and a brave ex-Mormon struggling to leave the community they’ve always known. My husband and I aren’t on the same page with parenting & it’s affecting our marriage I'm worried my husband's immaturity is going to get him fired I want to leave my faith but I know I’ll be ostracized Lyrics of the Day: "(Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay" - Otis Redding Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to a woman with a newborn at home, and her and her husband are not on the same page. We also talk to a woman who loves her husband, but she's beginning to lose respect for him. We talk to a young man who's got three kids, and he's losing his faith, and he wants to know what to do. Stay tuned. What is up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Hope you're doing well. Wherever you happen to be, whatever happens to be going on in your world. Glad you're with us. The show we talk about mental health, relationships, everything. If you want to be on this show, I'd love to have you. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. You're into the new year and you already are out to eat with your family, staring at each other, just looking. And you'd be like, no screens, no... Get the John Deloney conversation cards. Get online and get them. They're awesome. We finally

got new shipments in because they sold out with three runs, man. and get them. They're awesome. We finally got new shipments in because they sold out with three runs, man. One, two. It was awesome. Now we're back. So get them for your relationship, for your dating, whatever. Nice words, John.

Good job. I should run a podcast. For your dating relationships, for family get-togethers, friend get-togethers, kids. Got cards for everybody. It's good.

Hey, Ben, Kelly, I hit send on the manuscript, man, for this book. Nice. You know what I did last night? I went to bed. It's my first non-20-hour day in a long time, and it is awesome. So good. And that means Kelly's life's better, too, because I'm a little bit more pleasanter to be around. I'm always pleasant around Ben.

It's just Kelly. I appreciate it. It just brings out in my heart. It's cool, man. I'm excited. I'm excited. All right, let's get to the... Actually, hold on.

I want to do one thing real quick. Before we get to the telephones. I'm going to pull something up on the internets here. Somebody sent me on my DMs. And I won't use her name, but I love this. All right. Here's what they write. Ready for this?

Just listening to your information on Cry It Out. I think it was on AMA. It's the first time I wasn't 100% on board with you. At first, my heart started racing, and I began to talk to my car radio. That's where I listen to your show and getting defensive. Then I stopped, practiced my skills and asked where this is coming from. It's coming from a mental health professional who sleep trained her children and wants to be validated that she's a good mom. Comes from a woman who had postpartum depression with her first child and taking care of them was was extremely hard comes from someone who read so much on sleep training co-sleeping and cried out

It hit a nerve to say the least I agree with you the fact that cried out with any child is not the way like baby cries and you never go in I agree that sleep training with a one month old is terrible and traumatic, but we disagree at some point. However Even I as I write this I realize I'm seeking validation and reassurance that I'm a good mom. I am. So I'm sorry for impulsively blowing up your DMs on Friday morning. Looks like I need a stories journal just like you so I don't blow up podcasters DMs just to come to the conclusion I did. And I had lots of errors. I'm sorry. I'm done now. Listen, you know who you are who wrote this? Number one, good for you for disagreeing.

I love that. I love that. I don't know a lot, but I know I'm not right on everything. Probably not right on a lot. If Ben's nodding his head, he's like, yeah, you're not right on a lot of things. But, man, thank you for disagreeing. Thank you for writing. Thank you for being, like, treating me with dignity when you wrote back to say,

hey, I like you, but you're super wrong. You missed the boat on this one. And then thinking through, why am I so mad? Oh, man, I'm mad because, or why am I hurt? Why am I defensive? Because this is challenging a core belief of mine. And we get to the bottom, and our core beliefs might still be different. Fantastic.

So good. So good. I'm so grateful that you wrote me this and I'm grateful that you were thinking through it. And I know it's going to rattle on your head and you're going to ask your friends and you're all going to talk about it. Good. We're inspiring conversation. That's good. That's good.

That's good. So thanks for writing in. I'm grateful for you. Hey, if you disagree with me on stuff, write me and let me know. Be nice. No, actually, I don't care if you're mean about it. It makes me laugh. and let me know. Be nice. No, actually, I don't care if you're mean about it. It makes me laugh. But let me know.

And if you think, yeah, I hadn't thought that through, but that actually sounds right, let me know that too. I'd love to hear it. Love to hear it. All right, let's go. Now we'll go to the phones. Let's go to Sarah in Jacksonville, Florida. What's up, Sarah? How we doing?

Hi, I'm good. You're good? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good too. Fantastic. So Yeah, I'm good. I'm good, too. Fantastic. So what's up? How can I help? So I had a baby about four months ago.

Congratulations. And I'm just, thank you. And I'm just wondering how to, I guess, get my husband and I on the same, I guess, parenting page. I want him to be a little bit more hands-on than he is. And to enjoy it, I guess. I can tell he doesn't enjoy it. There's a lot here, huh? A bit, yeah.

Yeah, it sounds like it. How was your marriage before you got pregnant? Pretty good. I mean, we waited a long time purposefully. How long have y'all been married? I think about 10 years today, actually. Okay. So this thing that was going to be the greatest thing that ever happened to you,

and it's going to change your life, and you're going to find love that you didn't even know existed, has basically ruined your husband's life. I think, yeah, pretty much. And then he feels guilty for even thinking that, and you get mad for him even thinking that, but your life's kind of ruined too, but you love him, and you love the baby, and now we've just got a big mess. Kind of, I guess. Tell me where I'm off.

Sometimes it's great. And then sometimes, like basically when the baby's happy, everyone's happy. And fortunately, he's a pretty happy baby. But when he's a pretty happy baby um but when he's a baby and he is overwhelmed or um hungry or he's just a baby yeah he's a baby so he's gonna cry he's gonna be needy he's going to want to be held. Cause he's a baby. Cause he's a baby. Exactly.

Um, or like he spits up a lot. Cause he's a baby. Exactly. He's a baby. And he like, I get, I was telling my husband,

I'm like, I get spit up on multiple times a day. I basically live in spit up. And it's disgusting. You kind of ruined the podcast today. Thanks for that. Just kidding. Well, I mean, again, it's normal.

You burp him, he spits up. And sometimes burp class is not in the right spot. And when you're by yourself, you can't put it in the right spot. Yes. So when you say your husband, like what is he doing? So I guess, for example, he hasn't done this in a while, but that's because I'm I'm a confrontational person and I confronted him about it. But he. Was he got a new set of pajamas, he got spit up on the night that he got them,

and he got mad. Like, he... Like, as though the baby did this on purpose? Yeah, like it was purposeful. And he gets upset because the baby will cry with him or not me, or like he'll go to sleep for me, but not him. That's because your mom and he's been plugged into you for a year now. Yeah.

So I explained that. Is he sensitive or is he, is his, is his picture of what this was going to be just way off? I think it's a little bit of both. He doesn't think he's as sensitive as he is. I know he's very sensitive. No man does. Right. No man does. Um, he doesn't think he's as sensitive as he is. I know he's very sensitive. No man does. Right. No man does. Well, it doesn't help that he's actually, he's a Marine. Okay. Um,

and so he, and then the way he grew up, it was kind of like, you're not allowed to have feelings. And, um, I don't want that for our son. And I told him that, I told him that last night, actually. Um, when I was giving him resources on how we can deal with, um, like tantrums come toddler stage, cause it feels like it's fast approaching. Um, even though he's only four months old, but, um, I kind of, I was like, he's allowed to cry. He's guys have feelings and I don't want him to be one of those men that only ever feels rage because they can't identify their feelings. Right. Good for you.

What did he say to that? Um, he tried to kind of, he got defensive. He kind of tried to be like, well, men don't have feelings kind of thing. And like, boys don't cry. And I was like, you, I pointed out to him, I was like, you don't know how to have feelings other than anger. Right. And, and we joke all the time that he only has one feeling. Yeah. and we joke all the time that he only has one feeling. Like when people say like, oh, you've hurt my feelings

or like hit me right in the feels, we joke he has one. And I'm pretty good at hitting that feeling. We can look around at the suicide rates and the heart attack rates and the stroke rates and the cancer rates of men, and we can golf clap for all of us. We won. We got rid of the feelings.

And our bodies paid a price. They're paying a price. We're dying. You know what I mean? But you know that. If he calls me, we can have that conversation. I won't get all fired up this morning on that. So there's two things at play here.

Number one, you can really focus on the best parts of somebody and just kind of roll off the other stuff until you bring kids in. Because then the kids are walking, it's a mirror for both of you. And now you're talking about what are we gonna, how are we gonna connect? And that part's not going. So there is part of your husband's story that I wanna give to him. You've put up with stuff for a decade.

You've known this about him for 10 years. And it's just been part of it. And y'all have even turned it into jokes, into laughs. And it's probably reared its head a few times. And you said not anymore. And he's been like, it and y'all have even turned it into jokes and to laughs and it's probably reared its head a few times and you said not anymore and he's been like cool and what and now it all becomes real real right yeah so some of that as part of the conversation you're gonna have to own i've put up with this for 10 years and this ends yeah okay um the thing is, is I want to honor the fact that you've got a strong, feeling free man who's doing the best he can with the limited set of tools. And this sounds ridiculous. The word that I always use over and over, especially with military

veterans, especially with first responders who have, who as part of their training takes their feelings and puts them in a box because their feelings will get them and other people killed. Right. Yeah. And so those things that work on the battlefield destroy homes and they destroy neighborhoods and they destroy like cultures because you've got to use, you know, you don't get a screw out with a hammer. You got to use different tools for different things. So he's going to have to practice what this looks like. And you as his partner for a decade now are going to be the person who's going to help walk him through this. So here's a couple of things we can walk through. It sounds like he's missing his old

life. Is there some of that? Or does it sound like he's faced with something he can't control? We both kind of are. It doesn't help that he was gone for basically the entire pregnancy. He was in a training. And it's just the way the timing went. It's so funny because we actually planned to have kids when he would be home. And we had a miscarriage in March, like right as the lockdown started in 2020.

And then by the time we were ready to try again, he got selected for something important. And I had already known like in my gut, it was going to happen this way. Kind of like you have plans, but God's plans are better right so you've had a year to adjust to this and i'm not giving him a pass you've had a year um the baby is a part of you and when he was your husband was gone this baby in some ways yeah i mean y'all are super tight right yeah yeah um and so i don't want to give him a he's got to grow your husband's got to

grow up babies yeah yeah baby Yeah. Babies crap everywhere. They barf everywhere. They scream and they're babies. And I do have to give him a lot of credit because I, I was induced due to like preeclampsia and had to have an emergency C-section after pushing for three hours. Yeah. And so I was really out of it for the first basically six weeks yes if not more and so he was he did a lot he's changed more diapers than me he's done more i guess carrying of a lot of things

than i have and we moved three weeks after i gave birth on top of it. Good gosh. So he's a pretty great human being, right? Oh, yeah. He's great. He's a great husband. I think he has the potential to be a great father. I've just been having to push him a little bit more than I thought I would. Okay, so here's what I want you to do, okay? First thing is I want you all to get somebody.

Do you live on base or do you live in your own place? Yeah, we're on base. I want you to get somebody to come watch your baby one morning and y'all go out. And you've heard me say this a thousand times. I'll say it a thousand more times. I want you to take a spiral notebook or a notebook of some sort, but get online and buy some obnoxious, fancy one, whatever it is. And I want you guys to write down what parts of your old life you miss.

I want you to have a grieving breakfast together. What was? We used to be able to do this. And you go first and you're practicing this. You go first. We used to be able to stay up all night and drink all night and dance all night. And we used to be able to just hop up

and take off and do this. What can we not do now? What is different about our relationship? And what is about this old life that we loved? What are some things about the old life we didn't love, but here's where we are. And then you're going to spend some time saying, what could this look like? And here's where that's important. You've got to get your husband who for how long has he been in for 10 years?

He's been in for almost 15 or 16 years. Okay. So he has been wired to see challenges as a mission and accomplish that mission. Yeah. And you can't accomplish fatherhood. It's a relationship. And this is new yeah and i kind of i guess when it all of this kind of initially came to a head i kind of i told him that i was like because he doesn't really have his relationship with his family is uh how are you doing great

of course he's, he's got no model for this. Yeah. He's never seen this done. He's never seen it done. That's, that's why you got to practice. I kind of told him, I was like, I don't want that for you guys. Yes. And so here, here's where that becomes important. I want you to, when you're talking about the things that you're excited about this new chapter, cause your old life is over. And the quicker y'all realize that the quicker you can be about building something new. Your new life is, I mean, your old life is over,

for better or worse. And now here we are. And so you can say, what do we want this to look like? Okay, so he has a model of a dad who treated him X, Y, or Z, or a mom who treated him X, Y, Z. And now this is,

the result is their current relationship. Yeah, exactly. And so that means we're going to have to do things different. So reverse engineering all the way back to your dad never, ever hugged you. Your dad never held you. Your dad didn't take you to the store or get gas with him. Your dad didn't make the trip to the gas station 10 times longer just so you could practice getting gas like you didn't know these things that's what we're gonna do what could we do to get this picture that's gonna be

different than and you see those dads on base and they see their sons and man nothing gets me choked up like a hardcore marine all decked out whose dad shows up and both of them end up like slobbering crying because they love each other and you see them on base you know i'm talking about yeah yeah i do and then you see the ones that show up and there's this weird stoic they shake hands like like like when they're dropping their kid off or they're you know helping to move they shake hands like they've just completed a transaction yeah like goodbye son goodbye dad and they shake hands like thanks for the car thanks for the hug your kid right so you're gonna have to practice these things and you're gonna have to come up with some sort of

language with him which is i'm not to call it out during a fight. That's a terrible thing. But I want to have some language where I can say, will you hold the baby? And you'll say, on it. Because you're going to practice relationship. Like, what's going on? What's wrong?

Nothing. I just want you to hold him just because. And over time, he will go, now I sit on the couch. I don't like sitting on the couch by myself anymore. Now I want to be under a pile of kids. And that's weird for me, but I've been practicing for a long time, okay?

Yeah. And I want you to know he can get there. Not a mission, it's a relationships. Whole thing is new, new, new. The thing about going out to breakfast is it is not, I'm trying to think of a military analogy. In the middle of battle is not the time. It's not the time to talk strategy,

to redo your game plan. You're in it. You do that when you're not at war and a nice breakfast, a good going out to lunch together, that's not war. And you going first keeps it from being war. Like here's the things I miss. Right. How does that sound? Um, it sounds good. I just, um,

I guess I'm trying to think of like a when, cause we're, we're going home next, not this coming week, but the following week, we're going back to where we're from. It's going to be, it's literally like a cross-country trip. So, hey, that could be an incredible time to talk. Yeah. You're going to be together. If you do the work now and come up with 100 questions or 50 questions, and they're not, how are you going to be the guy who hugs all the time?

How are you? No, it's, paint me a picture of what you would, like, if you're dropping your kid off at college, what would you want that to look like? Like, do you want to hug him when you drop, like, paint that picture and just reverse engineer it. Imagine dropping your kid off to be, maybe he wants his kids to go to the service too. Maybe, like, what do you want that to look like? You want to be one of those dads that hugs, you want to be one of those dads that handshakes or one of those that does the weird side pat,

like what, what do you want to be? Right. And let's reverse it. How do we get there now? What's the most frustrating thing about having a kid? What's the, what's the, your favorite part about having a new kid? And here's the thing. When you ask those questions, he's not going to admit it, but those are feelings. What's my favorite thing about having a kid, and here's the thing when you ask those questions he's not gonna admit it but those are feelings what's my favorite thing about having a kid huh i like it when he just looks up at me and smiles what's the worst thing when he likes you more than me well yeah your husband's got to grow up on that one dude that just happens it's life right and then that will slowly start to shift and then you'll get mad that he likes your dad husband more and you'll say things like i carried you nine months and all that kind of stuff will come up too, right? But the thing is, is to pull the air out of this balloon because it's going to burst at some point.

Let the air out. Y'all are practicing. You're working. He's doing something he's never seen done before. And that's cool. And that's scary. And that's terrifying. And all those things together.

Thank you for your service as a military wife. Thank him for his service for, man, 15 years of putting himself in harm's way on my behalf and my family's behalf. I'm grateful for you. Y'all can do this. It's been this season, cross-country driving and talking. And for the first time, maybe feeling something. We'll be right back from the Dr. John Delaney Show. All right, we are back.

Let's go to Elizabeth in Greenville, South Carolina. What's up, Elizabeth? Hi, thanks so much for taking my call. Thank you. What's going on? Well, my husband started his very first ministry job about 18 months ago, and I'm afraid he's going to get fired.

And I don't know how to help. I know. I know it's not funny, but I'm laughing anyway. How long have y'all been married? We've been married about seven years. And what did he do before he started working for Jesus? I'm assuming that. Is that kind of ministry?

Yeah, definitely Jesus ministry. Nothing else. You said, well, actually, I was like, oh, man, I missed the boat on this one. Well, he was actually a former Navy guy. So the last call was actually kind of really pertinent to our situation here. Former Navy and then was a professional graduate student for a couple of years. Those are the worst. I was one of those.

We got through it. We got through it. And now he's here in this job, and it's been really tough. So why do you think he's going to get fired? He's a huge pastor, and so he's constantly fielding complaints from parents about his lack of organization and lack of admin skills. And then recently he heard from the head pastor that he doesn't feel like he respects him. And the pastor's wife was actually volunteering with the youth group for a while.

And she just messaged the entire committee that my husband reports to and says, I'm not helping anymore. And if you guys want to hear about my experience working under this youth pastor, please let me know. So it just seems like... What was your husband's response to that? They actually, this is all like in real time. So they have a phone call about it later today and she's a counselor. So I trust her to be very forthcoming

and honest and mature about the situation. Oh, Elizabeth, I know a lot of really immature counselors. Oh, man. But hopefully she's great. Have you talked to her, called her directly? No, I haven't. Because there's this messiness when you're at a church that also has administrative HR stuff.

Because it would be way out of bounds for my boss here where I work to get mad at me and then my wife to call them. Um, it would also be weird for somebody who doesn't work here to volunteer, to help, to join the John Deloney team and then to write a report and be like, that was a disaster, which it kind of is. That was a disaster. And if you want my experience, I mean, so the whole thing's a mess. But I think I'd reach out and talk to her. That's just side thing. Do y'all have any relationship at all?

Yeah, we do. We actually, we have really great terms and I feel like she could definitely share stuff with me and we kind of, she's a new pastor's wife too. Like they've only been married for about a year. So we've both kind of been thrust into these positions of, okay, our husbands have weird jobs and we, you know, have relationships with people in the congregation and they complain about our husbands, but you know, we're trying to have connections and community. And it's really hard to kind of differentiate.

It's a disaster. It's an absolute train wreck of a mess. Yes. Oh, yeah. Which is why pastors and especially their spouses end up some of the loneliest people on the planet because they got nowhere to go. You know what I mean? They end up with nowhere to go. Yeah. And it's brutal. And the hard part is like what normally happens is the spouses

of the current ministers become really close. And then one day you say, hey, I found something at our house or my husband expressed this and I'm worried about it. And now you're going to your friend with a concern, but now it's just become an HR issue. Yeah. Right. And so the whole thing's a mess. It's just messy, messy, messy. I personally don't like that the pastor's wife did like recon on your husband. I don't like that. I wish it had been a little more upfront. Um, sounds anyway, that's, that's beside the point. So what does your husband say about all this? Does he know he's got a problem? Yeah, he's really been, he's been working on it, um, on his administrative stuff. And the thing is, is that I'm, I'm really good at it and I do

marketing and public relations. So I'm, you know, I'm very type A and very good at getting the word out about events and things like that. I mean, like I could just like sleep before with, it's, it's usually well-received, but, um, I don't know how to stop myself from rolling over him and doing his job for him. But at the same time, when he's receiving complaints about, you know, parents don't know about this event, or we don't have enough people signed up to go to, you know, a fun activity out of town. It's usually because he hasn't really done due diligence on making connections with the parents and making sure they all know what's going on. So can we back out for a second?

How much of this is you're scared your husband's going to lose his job and how much of this is you're super frustrated that like like he's he's not doing basic tenets of the job and it happens to be the parts that you're really good at too yeah can i tell you where this is really hitting home for me my wife is a master teacher an incredible k through 12 teacher she's just like teacher she's just a stud and she came and visited my classroom once when I was teaching high school and her quote to me was I don't know what that was but that's not teaching and I was like what are you talking about

I'm incredible and she's like that's actually incorrect you're not credible and so it actually became a thing where we never talked about it because we did it so differently and it drove her crazy and it's that's what i'm hearing a little bit your husband's about to get fired that we can talk about that but it also sounds like you're losing respect for the guy that you're married to because he can't do basic things that you do really well. Is that fair? Wow. Um, losing respect. I, I, yeah,

I guess so. It just kind of seems like, gosh, why, why can't you just get it together? Or, you know, why can't you just, why can't you just piece these parts together? And how can you not see when you put the word out about something the day before an event, of course, people aren't going to show up. Absolutely. Why is he choosing that? Why is he choosing that? I have a couple of different working theories.

Oh, this will be good. He said to me, would you like my thesis statement? My thesis, my guess is A, he doesn't like this job. It's not what he thought it was going to be or B, um, he's overwhelmed or C he's lazy. What do you think? It's a mixture of B and C, maybe a little bit of a thrown in. Um, he might, what I've noticed is the little details that really matter to people, especially to the other people on staff, he feels like he's above them. Oh, he better recognize. He better recognize. Wow.

Well, and like meeting deadlines for things that, you know, he just, he thinks are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, um, are he neglects. And so I'm constantly like, you have to like, this matters to someone. It might not matter to you, but it matters to someone. And the fact that you're kind of digging your heels in and not doing this, um, it's not great. And that, you know, causes tension and the team is really small. And so when you, it's not great. And that, you know, causes tension. And the team is really small. And so when you, it's like five or six people, you know,

and so, yeah. So, you know, you know, it's, you know, it's heartbreaking here.

Two things. Number one, people I work with may have had a similar conversation with me in the last couple of years. And two, um, not from the beneath thing. I don't,

I don't jive with that. There's no job here beneath any of us The big thing is I had this conversation with my 10 year old or 11 year old Recently My 11 year old And this is like This is a very immature man

This is a maturity issue You know what I mean? It's a choice issue And here at where I work Where you know Dave Ramsey is the CEO this is a maturity issue. You know what I mean? It's a choice issue. And here at where I work, where, you know, Dave Ramsey is the CEO. You'll see Dave picking up trash in a parking lot.

He got a debt. We all got a deadline the other day on some book stuff. And he was the first one done. And he had more to do than I did. And I, he has infinitely less time available than I do. You know what I mean? Like, so it's a maturity issue. And I know that's frustrating for you as your wife. Has this always been this way? Does he do, does he treat you like this?

Did he treat his Navy career like this? Surely not. You really don't have an opportunity to act that way in the Navy. I mean, you've got a commanding officer, you've got, you've got people that you report to, you've got a very systematic thing, you know, working for you. So the deal is he can do it if he chooses.

And if he chooses not to, cause it's beneath him, that's a character issue and he shouldn't be a pastor. You know what I mean? Cause he's teaching young people that things are beneath him. That there will come, I mean, I don't want that type of character around young people. I want a youth, my dad, after he quit being a cop for a long time, became a youth pastor. And dude, he was the first one there at six in the morning. And he would get home at 2 a.m. that next night because he was cleaning up the bus in the parking lot.

That's the guy I want around my kids. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I know this is hard because it's your husband. That's why I ask you, is there a respect issue here? Yeah. I mean, when I think about even the way that he treats stuff around the house. You know, like I've fought really hard not to be the type of woman who argues

about how the dishwasher is loaded here and there. But I told him after he had this conversation with the pastor where he said, I feel like you don't respect me. I was like, you know, I kind of get that. If you're doing something, you might not be doing something directly to say I disrespect doing something, you might not be doing something directly to say, I disrespect you,

but you might not be doing something that indicates, you know, exactly. Exactly. Not respectful. So here's, here's a gift you can give him. And that is by not kind of saying things a little bit,

maybe ish. You deserve to be respected. And you deserve to have your voice heard in your home. And he might, he might take off. Who knows? Hopefully not. He might start to get it. When you stand up and say,

for 10 years or 15 years, however long we've been married, seven years, you've never emptied, I mean, you've never done this dishwasher the right way. And I'm telling you this as somebody whose wife did that for me. And it ended up being a gift. And when you say, when I ask you to do something like this around here and you dismiss it, I feel disrespected. I feel less than. I feel like you think you dismiss it i feel disrespected i feel less than i feel like you think you are more valuable than me that's the story i tell myself and he needs to hear that because this may be the first time he's heard some of these things and at some point i hate to tell you this he's gonna have to get fired or have some sort of big awakening before this type of character stuff shifts

because he's walking around the world as though it all revolves around him. Is that fair? You're so, yeah, you're so right. I've never seen it like that before, but you're right. He probably complains about the way they made his steak or his burger or his whatever, or they can't believe they cleaned my car like this. But everything is a, through a lens of how does it impact me? Not as the heart of a minister should be

and the heart of a husband should be. How does this impact my wife and the people that, whose kids I'm taking care of? Right? Most of the ministers I work with have given so much of themselves to everyone around them that they've got nothing left for themselves. This is the inverse of that. I want my job. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's what I think you do. I think you, after the call today,

hopefully he's still employed. My guess is he will be, but he'll have some strict stuff. In this moment, I think it's valuable if y'all get out of your home and you go somewhere. And like I told the last caller and you tell him this stuff that's being told to you is right. I feel it too as your wife. And I'm willing to walk alongside you as you begin to, as you change your lens, you change your glasses on how you're going to begin to interact with the world. Because we have to have a world of service. If you're a minister, you got to have a world of service. If you're a husband, you got service. If you're a wife, you'll serve, serve, serve.

And this thing's going to be done inside out. And in my life, here's what that means. Don't ever be late again. Never. Because somebody else has to pick that stuff up. Somebody else has to have a conversation with somebody. If I'm late, Kelly's got to tell the caller, sorry, we're running behind here. She's got to clean up my mess. James has to, I create ripple effects when I do that. Or if I don't park in the right place, or if I don't get my money turned in, or if I don't fill in whatever it happens to be. If I don't get my emails

turned in, whatever. This is about dignity and respect. And y'all need to sit down and have that hard conversation. And for what it's worth, he feels it on you, Elizabeth. He feels you looking at him, looking down at him, like almost disgust, almost like, what are you doing?

It's good to get that stuff out. It's good to get that stuff out. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make

to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. Let's go to Sean in Salt Lake City to the Utes. What's up, Sean? Hey, how you doing, Dr. John? I'm good, brother. What's up, dude? How can I help? Good. Well, hopefully this will be an easy answer for you. Those are never easy answers. Go for it.

Well, we'll try to give you a softball. So I grew up in a very devout Mormon family here in Utah. And it really controlled everything I did, any decisions I made, that kind of stuff. It just, like, we went along with the church.

And recently, you know, some of my beliefs have changed and that kind of stuff. And I don't know if you call it a faith crisis or what, but I'm just trying to get some guidance on how to maneuver through that, quote-unquote, faith crisis, so I don't spin out and get in a bad spot. Number one, thanks for your bravery, brother. And spinning out is part of the process, unfortunately, for the people who actually pay attention and are committed to any sort of faith walk.

If you don't have a crisis at some point, I don't think you're really digging in because this stuff's hard. How old are you? I'm 35. 35, okay. So what brought about this? You've been reading, you've been listening, you've just kind of been rolling your eyes,

you've got kids. All of a sudden, what's leading to this? Yeah, so I've got three kids that are eight, six, and three, and just kind of teaching them things that I learned growing up. And then, yeah, just been reading some stuff and the history of the church and things like that that didn't sit right with me. And I felt like that wasn't taught to me correctly when I was a kid. So in a way, I kind of felt betrayed.

And that's kind of where it just started so you know i've been trying to you know teach my kids values and morals and that kind of stuff because and that doesn't change i think that's that's what you should do as a father right um yes yes values and morals are good it's fathering 101 yes yeah so that's that's where it really came from is they just you know started learning more and digging deeper into things and it just kind of shook me weird and yeah are you married and the challenge i am yeah how is your wife's what's your thoughts on this um she's right where i am you know she didn't have the same upbringing that I did. Her parents didn't really raise her in the church, which is cool.

But yeah, she's very supportive, and she'll walk right alongside me. I want to make sure that I'm strong and going to lead my family correctly and not just, like I said earlier, spin out and not handle it right. So do you have— what are you scared of? What are you scared of doing? I mean, I don't know. Are you done with the church? I feel like I am, but yeah, like I'm kind of, I'm scared to even say that because, you know, in, in this area, it just dominates so much of our social life and our culture. Yep. Yep.

And I'm afraid that you're going to lose everything. I mean, you're, you're going to lose your community, your friend community, probably your parents. I mean, you're going to lose a lot, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm scared of. And I don't want that. So you're not getting, you're not scared of getting struck by lightning or like burning in hell or whatever. I don't know what the end result of your faith is, but you're, you're more concerned about like you love these people and you still want to go to dinner and you still want to have

Christmas parties and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I still want to be around and be involved in everything and, and all that stuff. I just don't, maybe I'm scared of what people think of me and, you know, that kind of stuff. And have you, have you sat down with any of your close friends and let them know where you're

at? Yeah. Yeah, I have. How'd that go? It was good. It was good. They're really supportive about it. And, um, you know, some of them even agreed and kind of going through the same thing that I am. Yeah. So, I mean, it's good. agree and kind of going through the same thing that I am. So, I mean, it's good. We're kind of building. It's a smaller community. That's for sure.

Yeah. A smaller community of people who are asking questions or who are thinking through things or who want to do life a little bit differently. Yeah. Okay. So I've been where you are thinking through like, man, where I'm at, where I'm learning and where I'm growing is different than how I grew up. So let's take religion off the table because that can feel jarring. Let's put parenting on the table, which is also jarring, but here we are.

I don't know anybody, that's not true, maybe a couple, maybe a couple, maybe a couple, who want to reproduce exactly verbatim the parenting that they received when they're considering how they're going to parent their kids. Almost everyone I know has some sort of, there was some really great stuff, there was some neutral stuff, and there's some stuff I'm absolutely going to do differently with my kids. Now, do we actually, do we end up doing that? We all talk about, you know, I hear my dad's voice coming out of my mouth and I'm like, what is that? One time I even looked behind me cause it sounded like him. And anyway, so we have that. And so the, the mark of maturity, the mark of growing up, the mark of wisdom is, can I hold in one hand the things about my parents, the way they raised me, that I didn't like, that I'm going to do differently?

And can I still hold the good parts and the parts that respect them and the parts that love them deeply? And if you can do both, that's wisdom. Can you hold both sides and go forward? Right? That's wisdom. Most cannot. Most have to burn down the other things before they feel like they can cross a bridge. And I think that's what's wrong with the world right now. I can't possibly talk about climate science without having to also back everything on this side of the political aisle, or I can't possibly talk about economics without having to end capitalism, without having to, you know what I mean? Imagine showing up to get your deer processed, pulling out of a Prius. I thought the poor guy was going to, I thought his head was going to explode, right?

That's the world we're in right now. And so what I want people to do is to begin to understand there's a both end to it. Here's what that is. Whether you want to admit it or not, and I think you did just admit it, so I'm not going to put words in your mouth. You got some good stuff growing up in the church. Absolutely. You got some good values. You got some weekly connection. You got a tribe. You got some good stuff growing up in the church. Absolutely. You got some good values.

You got some weekly connection. You got a tribe. You got a crew. You got some good stuff. And over time, the buzzword now is deconstruction. You're beginning to walk your faith back and go, it was built on something I didn't realize it was built on. And most of us think, well, if the foundation's wonky, if the story here is wonky, then the whole thing's wonky. And that's where I'm going to

say, the journey that you're on is both and. Can I re-imagine, re-read, re-walk through, re-think, re-whatever this foundation part, the story part, the, did that thing really happen like that?

Because it sounds bonkers and not throw the whole thing away. And what I'll tell you is I spent a season, years as just a functioning atheist. I mean, the whole thing was just ridiculous. And then over time, and I actually came around it backwards. I started doing crisis work

and meeting with people who were dead in the middle of the night. And I found it in a much more truthful, visceral way than I had originally. And so what I would tell you is my season of disconnection was super important. There's years they tell you don't plant your fields so that that soil can become really rich. So that when seeds do get planted they grow deep okay and let me tell you this if you're not honest with your community they're not your community you don't have community because you're lying to them and so living inauthentically just so you can be around people is inauthentic, right? You become that guy.

I feel like that's been me living inauthentically for the last couple years. It's exhausting, brother. Yeah. So let me tell you something bananas about brain science. Your brain knows you are not connected. Your brain knows you're lonely even when you're surrounded by people. And so don't put yourself in a situation where you are with people that you are lying to or hiding from or pretending with, because your brain's going to start sounding the alarms. You're not safe here. You're not safe here. You're not safe here.

It's much better to be authentic. And I love that you've already had some of these conversations and often faith crisis, faith conversations, or did we really believe that when we were kids versus this and what, right? Most of the time you're shocked by how many people around you think that way. Nobody just has said it yet. And when one person says it, everyone's like, oh, thank God. Yeah, that's crazy. You know what I mean? And then there's people on a spectrum who are great people. They're great people of character. They got great morals and they don't believe any of it anymore. It's just, I'm out. And there's those that actually get more entrenched, more conservative over time. And they're still my friends too, right? Right.

I think what you've got to do is make peace with what you actually believe. Have you spent a minute writing down, here's what I believe right now? You know, I've actually started that. I've been listening to your shows for quite a while. And I've been writing my wife letters. Awesome. And that's been cool. Did she write you back?

Just getting it out of my brain. Yeah. I'm better at writing and she's better at talking it through. Cool. Awesome. Yeah, it's been good. Well, that's phenomenal. So let me leave you with this, okay?

Okay. I hope that my values never change. I hope that my values, where. I hope that my values, where I treat people with dignity and respect, I'm a person of curiosity. I'm a person of character. I've got several core values. I'm a person who believes in God.

I have core values. I hope those never change. I hope my beliefs change radically throughout my life. Because then if not, why listen to a podcast? Why read books? Why hang out with other people? Why? Because the reason we do that is to learn new things. I believed when I was a kid that plants just grew. And then I learned about chlorophyll and borophyll. My beliefs about how plants grow changed. I want that to be the same in my faith. I want that to be the same in parenting. And it's when we can go, oh my gosh, I did X, Y, Z for all these years. And then I learned I was hurting people. I got to stop. And we grieve it and then we go on to the next thing. So I want you to hold your beliefs loosely and begin to dig in on yourself.

Be curious with yourself, not judgmental. And here's the, go ahead. I was just going to say, I think it's taken me a little while to accept that asking questions is okay. Now you're onto it. And that's one of my core values is I will always ask questions.

And if I find myself in a institution or an enterprise that says no questions are able to be asked here. And by the way, behind closed doors, I work for Dave Ramsey. I've asked him questions about debt and he's answered them. And I said, yeah, but what about this? And come on, man. Like just you and me, dude, we're hanging out by ourselves. What about this? And he's talked. So I'm in a culture where I can ask questions

because that's one of my values. Belief answers. We may come out to different answers, but the beliefs, and I do agree with Dave on this stuff, but the beliefs, man, I want those to be all over the place. You do have permission to ask questions in any place that tells you you don't have permission is a, is a, is a place that's hiding something. It's okay to ask questions. That's a cornerstone of wisdom, right? That's a cornerstone of searching. Faith is not knowing everything. And the opposite, was it Anne Lamont? The opposite of faith is not doubt. The opposite of faith is certainty. I'll say that again. The opposite of faith is not doubt. The opposite of faith is certainty. And so, man, going through life certain

is a scary proposition. Going through life, holding it loosely and saying, wow, what's next? While tethered to your values, tethered deeply to those values. Really, really important. Find a mentor that you can talk to, someone who's five years, 10 years, 20 years down the road. They actually have deconstruction coaches. A friend of mine,

Justin McRoberts, folks like that who will walk alongside you and help you think through some of these things. What's the good parts of my faith? What's the parts that I need to let sit down? I need to move on. Where else can I go? What do values look like when they're untethered a little bit? People like Justin McRoberts, folks who are actual coaches, just like a therapist, but they walk alongside you. They're incredible.

I recommend you grab somebody like that and help you walk through the season. Your kids are lucky to have you. Continue to be a person of character. Continue to be honest. Continue to ask good questions and continue to show up, show up, show up. Thank you so much, Sean.

All right, as we wrap up today's show, man, Kelly picked a song of the day. She is just sitting on the dock of the bay. Otis Redding, one of the greatest songs ever written, goes like this. Sitting in the morning sun, I'll be sitting when the evening comes, watching the ships roll in,

then I'll watch them roll away again. I left my home in Georgia, headed for the Frisco Bay because I've got nothing to live for. Looks like nothing's going to come my way. Looks like nothing's going to change. Everything seems to stay the same. I can't do what 10 people tell me to do, so I guess I'll remain the same. I'm sitting on the dock of the bay, watching the tide roll away.

I'm sitting on the dock of the bay watching the tide roll away. I'm sitting on the dock of the bay wasting time. Looks a lot like Kelly when she's working on this show. We'll see you soon on the Dr. John Delaney Show.