The Dr. John Delony Show - Is It My Fault That He Cheated on Me?

Episode Date: June 14, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A new mom wondering if she’s to blame for her husband’s infidelity - A woman wanting to set boundaries with her codependent mom - A man whose marriage has been shattered by his wife’s disordered eating Lyrics of the Day: "Better Man" - Little Big Town  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. If my husband's cheating. No, no, no. I knew what you were going to ask as you were asking the question. No. Why in the world would you think that? When I found the evidence, he looked at me, smiled, and said, you've had nine years to be the woman I love.

Good morning, good afternoon, good night. This is the Dr. John Deloney Show, and I'm so grateful that you have joined us. It's a show about you. It's a show with you. It's a show for you. Real people call them with real challenges, and I'll sit down and I'll walk alongside you and we will figure this thing out i won't sit down and walk i'll either sit down with

you or walk alongside you whichever is more comfortable for you we're going to figure out what is the next thing that you got to do and we're talking mental health we're talking relationships we're talking family trauma we're talking kids we're talking whatever else is going on in your life. I've been doing this for 20 something years, sitting with people when the wheels have fallen off. And my promise is I'm gonna tell you the truth and we're gonna figure out what to do next.

If you wanna be on the show, give me a call at John, go to the internet, johndeloney.com slash ask, or give me a call on the telephone, the way God intended us to talk to one another, 1-844-693-3291. Is that right? No?

You're shaking your head at me. No, that's just in general. Yes, the phone number was right. That was just in general. Yeah. Just if you were to sit in my seat during the day recording this show, just Kelly spends 85% of it just shaking your head. And it's mostly existential. Like what did I do in some former life that

this is my penance, that this is, this is my career. This is my job. This guy, man, talk about winning the lottery. You got like the $2 scratch off where you kind of won something, but it's like not a lot. It's enough to buy two more tickets. Really? Yeah. Cause I mean, you know, I was working on the second largest talk show in America.

Yes. And then near, near, near, near, near, near. Okay.

Quick, a quick aside, America, if you just want to hit the 15 second skip button, you can go to the call. But so my wife had this student um this is years and years ago that that all the teachers were cleaning up this huge craft project and um he came after they they just you know they lay out these big long tables of paper and it's in this cafeteria and they're cleaning up the paper and all the stuff they just wad it all up and throw it in the trash,

throw it in the trash, throw it in the trash. And this sweet kid comes and says, Hey, my glasses were in there. So these teachers go through the dumpster diving for this young child's glasses. It's a whole thing.

And then out of nowhere, the kid comes running out of the classroom. It's like, I had my glasses they were in my bag and he goes near near and here i am 20 years later and when something great happens in my life i go near near still because i'm seven all right let's go to los angeles california and talk to anna You're near. What's up, Anna? Hi, how are you?

I don't know. I don't know. I'm not very good at my job today. How are you? Uh, same. I don't, I don't know. I can't answer that. All right.

I will help. I'll help you if you'll help me. How about that? Yeah, let's do it. All right. So what's up? So my question is, it was if my husband- Hey, do me a favor. Do me a favor.

Take a huge, huge deep breath, as deep as you can, and hold it. One, two, three, let it out. And then do that one more time as deep as you can all the way from the inside of your guts one two three drop it okay all right I'm with you okay if my

husband's cheating no no no no I know what you're going to ask as you were asking the question. No. Why in the world would you think that? Because when I, sorry. It's okay.

When I found the evidence, the pictures of him and her and the messages and everything, and I told him, oh oh check your hidden album he looked at me smiled like the most evil smile I've ever seen him do and said you've had nine years to be the woman I love I'm sorry I'm so sorry

I want you to consider a guy that would so um I want you to consider a guy that would so disgusting is the word, cheat on his wife, is a person of so low character that the words they say aren't to be trusted either. So don't not trust him and don't not trust his actions, but then take a piece of the ugliest, most hurtful thing he said and trust that as truth. Cause it's a lie too. So what's your next move?

Um, I don't know because he's been cheating on me since I was nine months pregnant and we have a eight-month-old now. Yeah. Is he still staying in the home? He actually shipped us off. We were living in Collin County, Texas, and he shipped us off to California because this is where my mom is. This is where my family is and his family, too.

And he put us on a plane three months ago. And now he's saying he wants to work things out and fight for the family and fight, you know, be in my baby's life. But it wasn't just, it wasn't just me. He was, he's a first responder. So his, his work schedule is 24 hour shifts and he was pretending to work a lot of overtime and making trades and going and spending, you know, days with this other woman from our gym. And I told them it wasn't, I've been there when my dad said, oh, I'm not leaving your mom or I'm not leaving you girls. I'm leaving your mom too.

I said, I know how this works. You're not, you say you're leaving me, but you're also, you're not leaving the baby. You're just leaving me, but you don't call, you don't FaceTime him. You don't initiate things to see him. And he says, well, cause I, I have to deal with you and I don't want to deal with you. So I'd rather not, if it means I don't have to see him, then. You understand that that doesn't make sense on its face.

Yeah. And that's exactly what I, I said, I was like, you don't make sense. Cause if you want to see him, it doesn't matter. Stop,

stop, stop, stop. Let's do this. Let's do this. You are in the smoke and fog and ash of a fire that just burned right through your house

and you are trying to forensically figure out why in the world this fire burned and what it burned you got to get out of the burned spot

okay as far as I'm concerned right now your marriage is over yeah behavior is a language he has told you loud and clear he does not want to be a father he does not want to be a husband he doesn't want to be a person of character or integrity because here's what i know if let's say, God forbid, I had a long-term affair behind my wife's back and she caught me and I took that affair and I stabbed her with it like he did with you.

And then I was such a spineless coward that I put my wife and newborn on a plane and sent them away out of our home let's say I did all that and then I woke up one day and I realized I couldn't breathe and I realized I had made the craziest most insane mistake of my life I don't pick up a phone or a text message and say, I really want to fight for this. I find the nearest first, I find the first flight out. And if there's not a first flight, I drive and I bang the door down and say, I've made the most catastrophic mistake of my life. I quit my job. I quit everything because you are everything. That's what you do. And so I'm going to tell you something crazy.

I'm not hating on him for having an affair. Those are wrong and they happen. But he's displayed a gross lack of character. Yes, sir. And he's trying to drag you through his guilt, right? Yes. So what you've got to stop doing is trying to make rational an insane, irrational act. You are allowed to be pregnant, Anna, if that's answering your question.

Mm-hmm. Were you always roses and a joy to be around? Probably not. No. No. Did he come to you and say, hey, I feel like I'm losing my wife. I want to reconnect.

No, he didn't do that. He went to the gym. Yeah. Okay. And to be fair, he didn't do that. He went to the gym. Yeah. Okay. And to be fair, you didn't either. But no, he made a choice. He looked you in the eye and he said, for you forever. And then one day he went to the gym and was like, eh, and her.

He made a choice. Okay. Yeah. So from this second forward, you can no longer carry the cinder block that is his choices. That's not your fault. Mm-hmm. The question you've got to ask yourself is, what is Anna going to do next? Because right now, he doesn't get a vote. He kicked y'all out.

Cool. I'm going to go make my life. Yeah. Because right now, he doesn't get a vote. He kicked y'all out. Cool. I'm going to go make my life. Yeah, that's what I said. I said, I don't feel comfortable going back to Texas. Absolutely not. He kicked you out. You and your newborn. Who kicks out a newborn?

There's been moments when my wife wanted to kick me out. And that's fair. Not kick me out forever, but like, you should probably leave. Right. And I'm a lot, I get that. And there's been times I'm like, I don't want to be around her. That's fair. Who kicked out a newborn? Yeah, it was, um, it was supposed to be only a two month. Like he said, oh, let's give it two months. And then we can reconnect as like heart distance makes the heart grow fonder. Yeah, that works so good. So stupid.

Yeah, I found his calendar synced up literally the day before with this other woman from the gym, and he said, no, it's strictly platonic. We just went out. know, went out. Anna, stop. Anna, you are looping. You're looping on it. You are like somebody who lost somebody that you love deeply in a car accident and you keep going back and looking at the accident photos. You have to stop doing that. You're not going to find peace in what he did. And your sweet body's been through this before

when your dad took off on your family, right? Mm-hmm. So this has double weight because this wasn't going to be what happened to you. I'm so, so, so sorry. I want you to you're not asking so I'm just putting this out there okay and you can just blow it off and that won't bother me a bit but I think it's time for you to sit down with

a counselor and say, dad left me and I still don't understand why, what I did. And my first responder, supposed to be a hero husband, made a beautiful baby with me and he left me. And now that same seven year old is inside of me asking me what's wrong with me, and he left me. And now that same seven-year-old is inside of me asking me, what's wrong with me again?

And you're going to have to heal from that question because it's going to affect everything you do for the rest of your life. And the truth is, the answer is nothing on both counts. You didn't make your husband cheat and you didn't make your dad leave. Will you hold that sweet little baby close to your chest and promise that baby that you will go get healthy? Is it a girl or a boy? A boy.

I want you to commit to yourself and that little boy that this generational hurt stops with you. And you're going to go do the work that you need to do to make peace with the demons that are still calling you from when you were a little kid. And you're going to get some peace and some, your footing underneath you so you can make the hard decisions that you got coming ahead. Yes, sir. Is that fair?

Yeah. Do you have some resources to go see a counselor there in your community? I've been looking. I've talked to a few, but they's just, they're just people I haven't really connected with. So I'm still looking. All right. I want you to stay on the line. I'm going to hook you up with several months of better help for free. Okay. And that's a good place for you to start.

Are your parents trustworthy or is his parents trustworthy? Do you have friends there in California? Oh, my entire community is out here at my church. Okay. Everyone. So I want you to go sit with one or two women that you trust, that you love and that you care about and you can be honest with. And I want you to sit down and tell them everything.

But I don't want you to rehash all the, the, what happens. The everything I'm talking about is I want you to tell them how devastating this was. I want you to tell them how much it hurts and how confusing figuring out your next right step is. Because I can hear you have a very trauma-based response going on right now, which of course makes sense, but you're going back trying to figure out what happened so that you can justify going back with this guy. If you end up back with him, you end up back with him. I'm not going to hate on you for that, but there's got to be some healing that happens

or this whole thing, this whole loop starts over again and starts over again. And again, as I said, when this call started, he's a person who is so void of character and so void of integrity. His words get that same level of weight in your life. The same weight as his actions do, which should be zero. Because he doesn't tell the truth.

That's not who he is. That's not who he is. Can he come around? Yeah. Is he going to? Probably not. But if he's listening to this, bro, you better be on the next plane out. Or everything you are, just talk.

Just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And you're burying your sweet wife and this little boy. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to

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get three free months when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Dallas and talk to Marie. Dear Marie.

What's up, Dallas? I'm sorry. What's up, Marie? Not Dallas. You're good. I was hoping to get a conversation template from you for me and my mom. Excellent.

What's going on? Okay, so it's codependency and enmeshment. So normally when you hear about these, you hear about it as like the kid living in the mama's basement. This is actually kind of the opposite. So when I was in my mid-20s, she started asking for a little bit of money. A couple of years later, she was down for a year for medical stuff. And during that year, she ended up paying half her bills. And then after that, progressively, it's just gotten worse.

And the more that I enabled her, I thought, you know, it'll just help her get a break and then she'll get back up. She never got back up. And so it's actually made everything worse and worse. And now we're at this point where, like, she still has medical stuff going on, but she's also refusing to stand up and try and live her life anymore. And so I need a conversation where I can, like, I don't, I don't want to go for a throat and be like, dude, you know, this isn't okay because that never helps anything. But at the same time, like, I need a way to tell her, hey, like, I get to have my own life. You don't, you can't just take over, you know?

So one, I appreciate your heart, man. Thanks for loving your mom. And I know it's gotten sideways and out of control but um that's a great impulse good for you good for you thank you um and also thank you for loving future marie enough to go whoa this is about i'm about to dig a hole that i can't get out of um and you've done something that is really rare most of the, I have to start this conversation by telling people to stop blaming. And that's not what you're doing. The way you framed this whole thing is I kept doing and I kept doing and I kept doing and I want to learn what I can do next.

It's different. You're incredible. That's awesome. Oh, thank you. It's awesome. And any outcome is going to suck. Just know that going in. I kind of figured.

There is no magic conversation where your mom's going to go, oh my gosh, you're right. I'm so sorry. And then she just gets up and goes and gets a job. So I want you to- I kind of figured there was no magic. Yeah. Put to bed that this ends with you and your mom

like waltzing through a field of somewhere. Right. And there's just like snow coming down. Like that's not going to happen. Um, so what do you, what's the, what's the best case scenario for you? Um, I would love for her to go get counseling of her own. I would love for her to just pay like a portion or all of her bills and to stop giving me more and more because right now what it feels like is she's slowly handing me portions of her life and making me responsible for

them and then she hates her life okay well i i can't do anything for that like you're your own person you have to take control of your own life except you're taking you're taking those things that she hands you right and and that's where we have the issue. Because on one hand, I'm like, she's having medical issues and stuff like that. So I feel like I can't responsibly say I won't necessarily take it if you actually have a problem. But at the same time, I don't want to take things that you don't actually need me to be taking. Right. I think you're going to have to change your language a little bit. Because her definition of what she needs and your definition of what she needs are going to be different

So I think you getting out of her head you getting out of what you think she needs at a time Is is going to be important and you are going to have to focus on here's what I can provide And here's what i'm willing to provide and some of those the can and will, those are messy. Those are messy because you can have money in the bank and your mom's like, but you can just do it. And you're saying, yeah, but I'm not going to, because I've decided that I'm going to use that money in a different way. And that is a hard, hard conversation. So does she have the ability to

pay her bills or she choosing not to go to work? She have money in account somewhere. How, what's this gap? Um, she doesn't have a whole lot of money in the account. Um, she just quit her job. Um, she was a truck driver. We were both truck drivers. She went down for a medical reason and then she was, this is the second time in two years she's gone down for medical. She didn't want to come back to truck driving. So now she's job hunting.

Is she living with you? Yes. And that's part of it. Well, when you say medical issues, give me a little more context um originally several years ago she went down for a blood clot in her leg and that's when this whole process actually started and got really you know i started paying more of her bills two years ago she actually started um i she was in fort Worth, Texas. She had been doing a run. She

was making $400 a week. I was making around $600 a week. And she started having issues with her bills. And when I told her, I'll give you a little bit more, but no more than this amount, she...but a month later, she was in the hospital for audible hallucinations. And then they got her sorted within a week when she went into the hospital and then two years later you know she had gotten cleared to come back out well around two months ago she went off the truck again because she was she was saying she was feeling weird and she was having a hard time focusing and and all this and so then she went back into the hospital and now she's leveling back out again so but it's interesting timing because it's like,

whenever I hold that boundary, I'm on, I'm on Dave Ramsey's baby steps too. And so I told her I'm not going to be helping with, you know, some of the money stuff. And so it's like almost as soon as I set a boundary, there's something serious. And I can't say it's not something serious because she does go into the hospital, but at the same time, the timing is really interesting. Sure.

Yeah, hospitalization isn't a benchmark for how serious or not serious something is. If you show up, they'll take you and they'll put you on an IV and they'll put you on meds. Is she getting needed medication when she's there and it levels her out and then she comes back out and doesn't take her meds? Yes. needed medication when she's there and it levels her out and then she comes back out and doesn't take her meds yes she took the original meds for a little while and then she stopped taking them okay um but she was fine so she stopped taking them after a couple weeks but then she was fine for a year and a half until i told her you know hey i'm doing this thing and also in a year i want to get off the truck and go like to school okay that's what takes a lot. So there's a couple of ways you can do this. One is easier than the other. And I'm sure people will write in on YouTube comments or on the podcast

comments with their thoughts of what you should be doing. You can read those at your peril. There may be some good stuff in there. Sometimes there's some good stuff. Sometimes there's just a bunch of harrowing, awful stuff. Step number one is I want you to focus on where you want to be in three to five, six years. And I want you to reverse engineer that plan. That just means I want you to start five years from now. How old are you now? 32.

Okay. So 37-year-old Marie, where is she working? Where does she live? How much money does she make? Okay. And then I want you to back that up with all the way to tomorrow. What do you need to do starting tomorrow to get there? So if you want to go to college and become a nurse, that's going to be a four-year degree plus some training. You would need to go get registered for classes summer session two, right? And so you're going to start doing things now that are going to get you there, whatever it happens to be that you want to do. So that's step one. Step two is be realistic with where you are right now. What are your finances? What's your debt situation? What is your living situation and be very realistic about what you can afford and what you cannot afford

Okay The third thing is is then you begin to sit down with mom and say here's what I will And cannot do Now a very difficult pickle you're in is evicting your mom. If you say, if you're going to continue to live here, you've got to pay rent and you've got to pick up the light bill. That's fair. That means you can't just sit at home and you're not getting back on the truck. That's fine. That means you've got to go get another job. That's not going to be fun and pleasant, but you're participating in this household.

The obvious answer is, or what? Are you going to evict your mom and put her on the street? Probably not. Right. The other option is you move or you say in six months, I'm getting a new apartment. I'm going to go to this particular school. I'm getting out of the truck. I'm going to this college. I've saved up enough money to, to not take on any student debt. And I'm going to go do this thing.

But you come up with a plan where you vacate your home that where you live now. Okay. Um, in that plan, then she would be left. Then she's got six months. I would feel bad for her. You're going to feel bad either way. Okay. And you've heard me say this, but at some point you're going to have to choose guilt over resentment because if this continues, you're going to hate your mom.

And we do not want to go there. No. So you'd much rather feel guilty that your mom is mad at you. Then every time I go to my own home and my mother is there, she has completely abandoned any sort of life that she wants to live, and it's misery.

And I hate it. You don't want to go there. Okay. There's not a lot of good options you're going to feel bad you're going to feel weird either way you go would this work better if i got like a family counselor or something like that to mediate will she even go um she's said she doesn't sound excited about it but she's agreed to go if i really wanted to. Here's the thing. It's your money.

And so usually it's in reverse. A parent will call and say, hey, I'm paying for my kid's college. I'm really worried about them. They seem more anxious or they seem more depressed. What I'll tell them is, you tell them as a benefit of receiving my money, you have to go see a counselor.

It's your money. And so your mom can make a choice of either she doesn't get your help or she takes care of herself. Okay. And I think it's important to call out. This feels really weird, mom, because I feel like I'm acting like your parent. And in some ways I am, and I want to switch the roles back. I need my mom and I miss my mom. Do you see the difference there? Yeah. It's kind of call. It's, it's not kind of, it's calling out the awkward. I'm a huge fan of calling out the awkward whenever there's an awkward conversation. I had one with my son the other night and I just said, hey, this is going to be weird. And he's like, okay, dad, here we go. But I just like to call it out that way. Not always the best strategy, but it's the one I usually use. So I think it's taking all those awkward,

weird things and just putting them out. This conversation is going to be hard. This conversation is going to be weird. I am running into a math problem. I can't support us both and eventually get me out of the truck so that I can be healthy and financially secure over the long haul. No pun intended. Like it's not working. So I have to make some different choices

and I know that now my choices are gonna affect you. So that means you are gonna have to make some different choices whether you want to or not. Here's our option. Here's your options. And that's where you already having your plan. I am going to go to nursing school. I am going to go to roofing school. I don't know what you want to do, HVAC or whatever, whatever you want to do. I am going to go do these things. And so I'm not asking mom for your permission or what do you think? I'm not asking

that. I'm telling you what I'm going to go do. And here's how that is going to affect you. And here's the choices you have. You can continue to pay rent and that's going to allow you to stay here. You can go see a counselor with me because that's a part of me allowing you to stay here. Or I'm moving in six months to a one bedroom apartment in North Carolina because that's where I'm going to school. Whatever it is you want to do. But again, the template as you asked for is you figure out what your path is. Number two, you figure out the mathematical realities of where you live, what it costs to be you and what it's going to take to get you to this destination.

And then three, be very dog, I mean, very clear, not dogmatic, but be very clear with your mom. Here's the challenges. Here's the awkwardness. Here's the challenges. Here's your two paths or three paths that you get to choose. In any sort of, well, I'm just not, oh, you don't love your mom. Expect that to happen.

That's going to be how she rolls. Because that's how she's rolled for the last several years. And I'm going to be compassionate and treat her with respect and dignity. She doesn't want to be where she rolls because that's how she's rolled for the last several years. And I'm going to be compassionate and treat her with respect and dignity. She doesn't want to be where she is either. She doesn't want to be feeling more and more depressed and more and more helpless and more and more like she can't take care of herself and her own kid has to take care of her, which then feeds the shame cycle, which then feeds the cycle of I'm not doing anything. And this whole thing just gets worse and worse and worse.

So it just takes the adult in the relationship, which is you right now to say, I'm hitting the stop button on this. We're control alt deleting this thing. So hopefully that helps. Let me know how those conversations go. And if she wants to call in, I'd love to talk to her too.

Or if y'all both want to call in, that might be an interesting show. And however I can help you as you head off into this new direction. I both want to call in, that might be an interesting show. And however I can help you as you head off into this new direction, I just want to tell you again, how proud of you I am. You're going into this with the right heart and the right spirit that you are the only person you can change. You can't change mom. You can't change mom's thoughts. You can't change her actions. You can just change yours and yours will affect hers, but you are looking in the mirror first. I love it. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. Let's go out to Akron, Ohio and talk to Andrew. What's up, Andrew?

Hey, John, how you doing? Partying, man. That's not true. That's not true. I'm at work. What are you doing? I'm finishing up some notes for my work. Excellent. I appreciate you taking my call, man. I really appreciate your wisdom and your honesty, and I've really enjoyed your show. So thanks for having me on. You got it.

What's happening? How can I help? So I find myself in a pretty complicated situation in my marriage. I've been married almost four years now. And my wife has struggled with a lot of addiction and there has been a pretty significant amount of manipulation and deception that's taken place over the last, really the entire course of our marriage. What's her addiction of choice? Yeah, so she struggles with an eating disorder.

So, you know, I guess maybe not your traditional, like, drug or alcohol addiction, but to the point where, you know, she's chosen to manipulate myself and just situations and deceive me in order for it to manifest and to take on, you know, binge purge behaviors and restrictive behaviors and things. So she's been in and out of inpatient, outpatient therapy. We've done counseling, marriage counseling. And unfortunately, it's just the patterns have continued to take place. So my question to you is, you know, about three or four months ago, just after kind of realizing things were still as bad as they always have been,

I started really struggling myself with just panic attacks and pretty severe depression, anxiety, just feeling so trapped by the situation to the point where I've made some boundaries that were crossed and I had to move back in with her parents. And so we're at a point now where... What were those boundaries? What were those boundaries limbo or those boundaries um so unfortunately one of the only objective measures for for growth and for um for both of us done you know really have a full picture of where she's at is weight um and just kind of measures of honesty checking in each day making sure that everything she's saying and doing is consistent with, you know, what we're seeing as far as like, um, her weight and, um, just was continuing to

lose weight and kind of stay like underweight. And, um, so despite, you know, telling me everything was going fine and she was doing all the right things, but still just kind of seeing that objective measurement. Um, hopefully that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So, so you kicked her out and she went to live with her parents.

Yep. She's with her parents now. So she's been there for the last two months and there's just, you know, she's very frustrated and angry with me because she wants me to move toward her and build back trust. But at this point, I mean, trust is not only damaged, it's gone, you know, it's out the window. And so I'm just struggling to survive myself at this point. You know, I'm actually I'm actually a, an ER doc and I'm struggling even at work sometimes to stay focused just because the, it's just a constant thing on

my mind, you know? And, um, so I'm trying to figure out how can I guard my own heart and my own mental health, um, you know, while the trauma is still kind of continuing to happen, even though she's telling me that it's not, or she's telling me that she's different, even though I'm still seeing objective behaviors taking place that make me pretty assured that they are still happening. So you're a medical doctor? I am, yeah. Okay. I can have a little bit different conversation with you than I might with just like a dad

who's a roofer, a husband who's a roofer or something. Sure. For some reason, you are taking her actions. Let me say it this way. You're holding her accountable for the results of an illness and you're making them very behavioral in a way and then you're taking her behavior personally.

And so the best way I could suggest this is maybe an analogy, and this may not work perfectly, but I have a seven-year-old little girl and she has some respiratory challenges, some restricted breathing recently. And for a couple of nights in a row,

she came into me and my wife's room at 3 a.m sick exhausted coughing from her what felt like from her guts and um unable to breathe and having to run through breathing treatments and stuff which is not normal for her right but she continued to come to the one safe place and what i didn't do was get really pissed at her for coughing because that's a function of her challenges with her lungs and so you've got a wife with a significant mental health disorder and this the seeds of this are planted long before y'all got together right and you have two people who are all about control and you're exerting it in different ways you have a very intellectual control and she's a very emotional control and she's going to pull you using that and you're going to try to pull her back using intellect. And so you get in this strange dance.

But you're getting really pissed that she's coughing. The challenge with, and you know this from your training, the challenge with distorted eating is using relationship as a as a weapon just throws gasoline on that fire yeah exactly you know what i mean like her punishment for not for her punishment for coughing was she doesn't get to see you anymore or live in her own home that was her punishment there was a line that her coughing crossed and you said, you're out of my life until you fix coughing. When they really, the only way to fix coughing is relational connection. And then the healing can actually start. So I guess more so as I told her over the years, you know, I said, I'm not, I'll never be upset with you for struggling with mental illness.

I said, the only thing I ever want from you is your honesty. Yeah, but that's a function of it. Sure. I guess where I struggle is not having the foundation of trust in our marriage leaks over into every aspect of the marriage. Because for me, it's like, how can I trust you with anything when I can't trust you with just like these daily questions and things, you know? And I just, I worry, you know, like about a future, like when we have kids or like really difficult or really difficult life challenges, not being able to trust her. So let's flip this around.

Sure. I'm trying to... I really want to talk nerd with you. It makes my heart feel good that I get to talk to a, I mean, you're way smarter than me. I can talk to a card. I'm a nerd too, man. Well, but I want to make sure that people can follow us. Let me say it like this.

It sounds like you are treating her as a patient. And the difference is you get to weigh her in and check her blood and her blood pressure every minute of every day. And so my question for you is what if you stopped putting her in a position when you know that shame is one of the core DNA functions of disordered eating. Sure. Not putting her in a position to have to lie. It's the same thing I tell parents. If you know your kid took the cookie, you know it, you see chocolate on their face, start there. Don't say, did you take that cookie?

And then they're like, no, mom. And then get pissed at them for lying. You just set that whole thing up. Just sit down and go, hey, you have chocolate on your face. You took one of the cookies I told you not to. And I'm going to have to hold you accountable for this action. Don't add something to it. So is there a way that she becomes your wife and not your patient?

Because you're creating a world that somebody with her particular mental health disorder. And if you've listened to this show, you know it's rare that I say that. I'm almost always saying it's a context, not an excuse, right? Just because you have anxiety and you may even be – you may have a GAD diagnostic, whatever, you still got to tell the truth, right? This is – the core function of this is hiding and shame it's part of the loop man and so what if instead of saying did you eat today? did you purge today? did you do this today?

you just held her hand and said I'm so happy to see you how can I love you today? if you tried that for 30 days I might be out to lunch man but I almost am out to lunch, man. But I almost am willing to bet that her parasympathetic system could finally kick in. She could breathe. Yeah.

But I do got to tell you, I mean, you know, we've been almost four years now we've been married. And I knew about this, you know, pretty soon after we got married because she was just obviously losing weight, didn't have a period for a year and a half. I mean, got to the point where she was down to 80 pounds and it was dangerous, magically dangerous. And throughout that whole time, I had a lot of people in my life saying like, hey man, this is bad. I think you should get out. And I defended her tooth and nail and just said, this is my wife. This is our lot. And that was, I mean, I'm not just trying to blow smoke here. I mean, that was my approach was no matter what, there's going to be grace.

There's going to be love. I'm going to encourage her. And I think. But are you showing grace and love the way that you know, how or the way she needs it? Well, I guess that's a good question. I mean, the whole, the whole weighing thing didn't happen until she came back from treatment. Cause that's kind of how they were. And again, I know I'm not, I'm not in that role of a counselor or, you know, a dietician, but like, that's kind of how they were continuing to monitor

her, her progress. And I, I just, I didn't know what to do. I mean, I saw her continue to lose weight. I'm terrified for you. You know, this as well as I do for people listening. Um, this is last I looked, it was the number one, it's the most lethal mental health disorder there is. Yeah. Um um this is a scary scary thing and to see someone you love wither away to 80 pounds i mean that's that is that's all that's that's terrifying so yeah i i don't want you to hear me in no shape form or fashion is this your fault am i blaming you maybe here's an analogy that will work. My dad was a homicide detective.

He's a trained question asker. He also was the hostage negotiator for the SWAT team. So if somebody had a bomb or somebody was going to jump off a building, they called my dad in. And he's got a very disarming, funny, I learned every, I mean, I learned the way I approached life from him, okay? Mm-hmm. I learned the way I approached life from him. And they told him during training, you cannot bring this skill set to your home because you'll melt your kids. And one of the most raw, honest conversations we ever had

was several years ago when he looked at me and said, I don't think I did a good job. And I remember being a kid, feeling like I was getting interrogated for, did I finish raking the yard? It was an intensity to it and a direction is to it. You see what I'm saying? It was the professional skillset that he had and he's just trying to get to the bottom of it. And he said, man, I don't think I did a good job of not bringing that home. Thank you, kids. We're the brunt of that.

So what I'm suggesting to you is I don't think she needs another physician at her house. She needs someone that just loves. And let me tell you this. If you are done in this marriage, have the courage to be done in this marriage. Because you can get dangerously close to wanting to be done in this marriage because you can get dangerously close to wanting to be done with this and then looking for every possible way to make this the ending of this her fault yeah if you leave that's a choice you make have the courage to stand up and make that choice yeah are you done uh getting pretty close i, to be honest.

Okay. Just feeling pretty just spent, like I have nothing left. Do you have somebody else? No, no. Okay. Yeah. But I appreciate that. It makes a lot of sense, John.

What's your next move? Is she still down to 80 pounds? No, she's not. She's closer to a healthy weight at this point. I mean, has not progressed over the past year. What would she need to do for you to... Actually, let me give you this analogy. And if you've ever listened to the show,

you've heard me say this, and I'm just going to say it again for everybody. Yeah. The marriage you thought you would have four or five years in is not what has happened, right? Mm-hmm. The woman you married in many ways

is different than the person you thought you married and probably vice versa. Yeah. The goal now isn't to try to get back the goal now isn't to try to remember when we were dating and i was in med school and we were all kind of crazy and i was working these crazy hours and you'd those days are over the question you have to ask yourself is are you willing to work with her and is you willing to work with her? And is she willing to work with you to rebuild something completely new from this point forward? Because that's really your only option.

It's that, or we both walk away. Right. Yep. Yeah. I certainly realize it's not about trying to get back to what we thought was because, I mean, in reality, that never was, you know. Yes. And so.

How long does she struggle with this? Well, I think a lot longer than I realized. And it got really severe after we got married. But I think she had some tendencies of disordered eating even back in high school. Does she have a good relationship with her dad? I do. No, no.

Does she? Oh, does she? She does. She does, yeah. He's always kind of been a... Yeah, I mean, they've always been really close.

I don't think he really opens up a whole lot with her, but he's supportive. With her dad? No, with her. I'm sorry, do I have a good relationship with her? Do you open up to her? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, at this point, point you know the last few times we've talked I've just been a blubbering mess so there's not a whole lot hidden at this point good I mean I hate to tell you this

but that's that's the only the only way this thing survives is if you are all in yeah and all in not trying to be

the reserved ER physician that says you have some insert big fancy name, but it's the one that sits down and holds a patient's hand and said I'm so sorry. That's the guy she needs. The husband

that says, not the clinician that is like, well you're up 2.3% in body weight and she needs the guy that says I miss my wife. And that's not even going to guarantee it because she may not quote unquote miss her husband. Yeah.

I think the question moving forward is what is it going to take? What, what, what standards, if you will, a standard is a bad word. It is a bad way to say that, but what would she have to do? What needs do you need met? How can she love you? And vice versa, how can you love her? And so maybe that's the path, if there is one, forward. If there's some sort of trial, move back in for 30 days. Every single day, how can I love you today? I'm not going to ask you any questions. I'm not going to judge anything. I'm not going to investigate you. I'm not going to run blood panels on you. You're not my patient. You're my wife.

How can I love you today? And you get to say what you need to be loved. You get to say that out loud too. And y'all get to work together. And man, I'm sorry that the woman you love is sick sick sick sick that breaks my heart she's in scaryville but if she's stable over a year maybe maybe we're on the on the right path because I've seen that healing too thank you for loving her remember she's the woman I love, not my patient.

She's the woman I committed everything to. She's not a client. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we are back for like the fourth go-round of this trying to end the show. I don't know I'm not supposed to do that, but it's cool. We've had like four takes because- We had one. Move along. Kelly's not good at counting. Listen, today's song of the day is by a schizophrenic band

who could not figure out the size and scope of their city. Little Big Town. Little Big Town. I've named a lot of bands in my life. I just can't imagine being like, we're going to go with Big City? I want to go with Little Town. I don't know

how you land here what is a little big town by the way kelly i have no idea i i don't will you're the musician no jenna what would i would just say a little big town is like a big city like nashville but it feels like a small town because everybody knows each other. Bam. Or maybe we're putting too much thought into it, and they just came up with a name. The song's called Better Man. If they stole this from the Mighty Pearl Jams, the song goes like this. Actually, hold on. We have to give credit

where credit is due. This was written by Taylor Swift. Just dropping that knowledge. I feel like just dropping that knowledge. Oh feel like T, just dropping that knowledge. Oh boy. Taylor Swift, writing a song for little big sideways,

miniature gigantic town city. Song's called Better Man. Not Pearl Jams, but T Swift's Little Big Towns. And it goes like this. I know, he just starts the music right away. Let's it goes like this I know he just starts the music right away let's end this show

I know I'm probably better off on my own than loving a man who didn't know what he had when he had it and I see the permanent damage you did to me never again I just wish I could forget

when it was magic I wish it wasn't 4am standing in the mirror saying to myself you know you had to do it I know the bravest thing I ever did was run. And that's what I think Kelly's going to do at the end of the show. I love you guys.

Stay in school. Don't do drugs. Bye.