The Dr. John Delony Show - Is It Time To Walk Away From My Relationship?

Episode Date: May 31, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A therapist unsure whether she’s compatible with her boyfriend - A woman struggling to explain to her child why she used a sperm donor - A man worried about his wife’s communication with her ex Lyrics of the Day: "Cry Me A River" - Justin Timberlake  Enter the Ramsey Cash Giveaway here Shop the $10 Sale here Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I used a donor insemination when I had my daughter. She tells a lot of people, I don't have a dad. Like, random people. It almost feels like she mom shames me. I don't want her to feel like she's missing out on anything, but... But she is. I mean, she's missing out on a dad, right?

What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. What many claim, and by many, I mean me and my mom, claim to be the greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast ever. Ever. Is that overstated? Probably, by about 97%. claim to be the greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast ever, ever. Is that overstated? Probably by about 97%. But listen, we're just going to keep saying it because we want it to be true, just like America. So dude, I'm so glad that you've joined us. On this show, we talk about, it's caller driven. You guys call and we're dealing with your mental health. We're dealing with what's going on your relationships

We're dealing with parenting issues with what's going on in local schools. We're dealing with all of it So anything that's going on in your world, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 It's 1-844-693-3291 And my promise is i'll get down in the mud with you and we will sit down and figure this thing out And um, i'm so grateful that you called before we take the first call and my promise is I'll get down in the mud with you and we will sit down and figure this thing out. And I'm so grateful that you called. Before we take the first call, everybody,

we blew all of yesterday's show talking about Taylor Swift concert and we didn't call out the most important thing. Grandma Kelly had a birthday. I really hate you sometimes You are three years younger than me I'm 17 years younger than you Three

17 Math is not your strong suit That's why you're doing this show This is But congratulations What'd you get? Thank you Nothing from me

Because I didn't know about it Yeah None My husband gave me What I always ask for Which is gift cards So I can go shopping Aww I love shopping With other people's money What did Andrew get you? None. My husband gave me what I always ask for, which is gift cards so I can go shopping.

I love shopping with other people's money. What did Andrew get you? Oh, nothing. Jenna? It's on the way. Can't say. Well, A, you're a rapper now because you're rhyming. And B, unbelievable.

Yes. But yeah, I've heard it was a rather big one on Sunday. Like, well, the year before a big birthday. I know, 70. God almighty. Seriously. No, the only reason you can say that is because there's glass between you and Kelly. And because I'm correct.

I'm good. I'm good with my math. I turned 49. Thank you very much. 49. Wow. And I'm just destroying this place. All right, let's take a... Hey, happy birthday, Kelly.

On behalf of those of us who struggle to count that high, we are happy to have you as still alive in our life. Let's go up to Abigail in not South, but North Little Rock. What's up, Abigail? I'm doing good. I do have to say I was at the Taylor Swift concert on Sunday. Here in Nashville? Yes, it was the best and the worst.

Why was it the worst? We all know why it was the best. But why was it the worst? Because of the lightning and the rain. We were stuck in the stadium for four hours. Whoa. Did they cancel the show? I mean, did they stop the show? They did. She played from 10 PM to 1 30 AM. Dude, that's dedication right there. Can we just, yeah.

Did y'all stay the night in Nashville? Did you have to drive all the way back to Arkansas? No, we stayed and we left early the next morning. We were running on three hours of sleep. Hey, some things are worth it, like the birth of a child, the death of a parent, and Taylor Swift. Amen.

Oh, you just made Jenna's whole day. Oh my gosh, y'all are wow. Okay, so what's up? How can I help? Alright, so my question is, how do you know in a relationship if you're just too different to make it work? Tell me more.

Okay, so I have noticed that I have a habit of dating people that are struggling with emotional regulation and occasionally addiction. And my job is also a therapist. Awesome. And so I tend to see the best in people and always see people for their potential. And so I just can't tell when in a relationship I'm staying and I'm being supportive of someone in a rough season or when maybe they need time to grow and mature on their own. I don't know. I'm kind of struggling with that dynamic of like when to walk away and when you know that someone's ready for a relationship, I guess. Okay, so two questions.

One, when you say, I always see the best in people, that is often code for, I need them to be this certain way in my fantasy world because I can't live in a world where people are X, Y, and Z. Is that fair or is that not? You can say, dude, that's not true at all. I mean, possibly. I feel like I'm a pretty open-minded and understanding person, but I keep on, I don't know how, but I keep on dating people with anger issues. And I think that's one of my biggest triggers as well in a relationship. Who had anger issues in your life growing up? Um, maybe my mom, my dad was the opposite of that to where he was very passive and not very emotionally available, but he was there doing things like the physical aspects, like paying the bills and changing the

oils in my car. Um, and he was like the fun person to hang out with. But my mom, I would say was mostly the one that was in charge and, um, was always kind of having to be the bad cop too. So when you say he was fun to hang around with, but he was not emotionally available, pull that apart for me. We would be able to spend quality time together, like watching movies or going on like a week long trip around the United States. But whenever it would come to any type of deeper conversation, he would just kind of feel awkward and shut down and not really know what to say.

So anything kind of emotion-related, that's something that I would always go to my mom for. Gotcha. So I have found over and over and over again non-scientifically i haven't found any studies that support this but it just is one of those things that keeps showing up as a truth um that we marry our unfinished business yeah um we either you're trying to solve mom's anger. Like, why was she so mad with me? And your body continually finds people that you are going to be in relationship with that

have that same pulsing nuclear reactor core in their chest. And you set off to try to solve it. And you do that through thinking the best of people or wishing the best about people or fantasizing they could be this one day. Or your body's trying to connect with somebody in some meaningful way. And often people who are angry a lot are emotional a lot. And people who are emotional a lot can also be incredibly loving when that machine is turned off. Either way, your body's trying to solve a problem that it has been trying to solve for a long, long time. And that's why you find yourself in this dating loop,

this pattern over and over and over again. People look different. They have different jobs. But at the core, they're still struggling with the same thing that sets your body's alarms off, right? Give me an example. There's a reason you called. Why did you call?

Did something happen recently? Yes. Do you have a lover that is so mad you went to Taylor Swift? If so, get rid of it. No, absolutely not. He would not be accepted. All right. So what is it? Um, so I have been married before. Um, I've been divorced coming up on a year and whenever I married, I think looking back, I married him based on the potential of what he could be. So he struggled with anger issues and struggled

with addiction. And he said that he wanted to change and wanted to get help. And then whenever we started living together after we got married, I feel like a lot of things came out of the woodwork. And I sat down and I said, you know, I need this from you to feel safe. I don't feel emotionally safe. Um, he would gaslight and then do love bombing afterwards. And he, there was never any physical abuse, but he would like throw things down and slam doors and yell. Um, and so after asking him to get help for so long, he would always be remorseful and say that he wanted to change, but he never really did that. And so I started coming home to my own home that we shared not feeling safe. And so after feeling that way for a year, I eventually ended things because

I just, I couldn't keep going. Do you hear how what you just described is almost a blend of your mom and dad? Yes. My brother also struggled with addiction. So we can throw that in there too well it just sounds like however you have chosen to remember it um again it's not fair for me in in five minutes just to just throw shade but what we know about our childhood memories is they often are way incorrect on either side of a barbell i had the best childhood ever except i just just struggle with disordered eating and this and this and this and this. And it's like, ah, well maybe, or I had the worst childhood ever. And when you peel it back, it's like, well, it actually wasn't the right. So it's often a barbell of one or the other. Man, it sounds like y'all grew up in a home that had some emotional

absence in it and that your bodies are, whether it's looking for drugs or looking for love and all the wrong places, it is, you have bodies that are searching for connection in almost desperate ways. Yeah.

I hopped into another relationship almost immediately. Of course you did because relationships are your drug. It's your drug. Yes. Right? And was it very similar to the one you just hopped out of?

Well, something happened recently to where they got upset at an ATM machine because it ate their card. And so they kicked the ATM machine and then they started cussing at it and then like hitting it. And this has never happened before. But I feel like my whole body went into a state of flight. waking and when they came back to the car I almost felt like unsafe to be in the car with them like everything in my body was just telling me to run yeah because you were in the presence of a grown-up child children hit inanimate objects and curse at inanimate objects children something that I struggle with though is I'm like okay but behind that person that's struggling with anger like there's a lot of pain and do I need to stay in a relationship and just be patient while they figure that out but also that's something that I found out is super triggering for me so I guess I just don't know where to find

the balance of everyone has their struggles and everyone is in a state of growth. Like I know that this person is trying to grow and try to be better, but when do you know to walk away? I don't know. Number one, you're doing a good job of trusting your body. It'll let you know that you're not safe. Number two, you can't, um, you can't fix everybody. I know over time, and that's a pathology for you. That is, that is your childhood wound that you've been carrying around that I'll just, let's just use dad as an example that you are still asking yourself as an adult, what was it about me that was so unlovable that dad wouldn't plug into?

Or you're asking yourself, what was it about me that made mom that mad that she smashed the cabinets until one of the drawers came out? And you're continuing to ask that and ask that and ask that and your body is desperate for connection. And it can get connection through proxies like alcohol like opiates like um weed doesn't really provide it but it shuts down the alarm system

um or hopping into relationship after relationship after relationship it's the same drug it's just i mean it different drugs, but it's the same issue. Right. For me, how do I know we're going to grow, we're growing together, that it's worth sticking it out, is when somebody invites me into their hurt, their pain. That's when I know. I can't keep swan diving or cannonballing into other people's lives thinking I'm going to fix them. They didn't invite me in. And the hardest part for someone like you who loves and cares about other people, you've dedicated your whole life to it, is being romantically involved with somebody who has not invited you in. And you are looking through the window of their soul being like, I can see it right there where it hurts. And I even went to grad school.

I know how to help. And they don't want your help. They just want to yell and kick and scream. There will come a season in their life when either they have to deal with it or not, but they haven't invited you in. And that sucks. And that hurts.

It's like these people that I've dated do invite me in. Okay. I feel like they're in a state to where they invite me in and they always say that they're sorry and try to make up for it. And I can see. Behavior is a language, Abigail. I'm trying to grow.

Behavior is a language. You knew I was going to say that. Behavior is a language. And listen, when you're in a relationship with somebody, personal development, which is a phrase that just gives me hemorrhoids, but personal development is something we do together for our relationship, this world we're building together. And that's super unpopular and it's super not bro science. Whatever, dude. Like, I got to smash it and crush it. No, dude. My personal development, if I do it all by myself and my wife does her personal

development all by herself, we're going to end up 2,000 miles away from each other. So in the morning when I'm up at this morning, I was up at 4.48 in the morning work and I went to the gym and then I went on the front porch and did my assignment that my counselor gave me. That's all personal development, but it's all working towards the goal of me being a better husband and me being a more peaceful grown man and me being a better dad. So it's working in service of, not just working in service of a six pack or cooler muscles or getting my job promotion. See what I'm saying? Yeah. And when you are working on you and you are, and he is working on him and y'all are working on each other,

I mean, you're working on yourselves towards a common goal, towards a common mission. There's just an innate, hey man, can you look at this challenge differently than me? Can you see another picture? And that's an invitation in. When somebody sits down with you and it's like, oh, you're a counselor. You can help me not be depressed. That's not an invitation in. When somebody says, oh my gosh, I love how good of a listener you are. Let me tell you about all of my props. They're just, you're being used as a tool to prop them up. So maybe even feels like an invitation. I think, and you're not going to like this, but I think you need a detox.

You need a season of being alone, hanging out with girlfriends, having fun adventures, and getting to know who the heck Abigail is. What does Abigail need? What does Abigail want with her one precious, reckless life? What does she want with all of them? And I think when you start answering those questions, then you will meet somebody and your heart will beat a little bit faster and his will too. And y'all will begin the process of creating something awesome together, not just co-competing. I can fix you. I can crush it.

I can help fix you. I can dominate it. That's just not a recipe for love. That's a recipe for ongoing, just continuing the family trauma from one system to another. Thank you so much for the call, Abigail. I think you need some peace. Peace.

And from there, a new relationship will grow. I'm confident of that. You're too wonderful of a person. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our

true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where

you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey

and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Diloni to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash deloney. All right, we are back. Let's go out to Shawnee, Oklahoma and talk to Deidre. What's up, Deidre? Hi, how are you? Partying. How about you? I'm good. Awesome.

What's up? Yes, I have a question. I am a single mom by choice, which means I used a donor insemination when I had my daughter. Okay. And she is six years old. And since she was about four years old, she knows we're open about how she was conceived and everything, but she tells a lot of people, I don't have a dad. Like, random people, she, it almost feels like she mom shames me about it. And I tried to explain to her that our family's come in all different shapes and sizes and I had you on purpose this way and she just doesn't get it and I don't know, I don't really know how to handle it.

Can I ask you some hard questions? Yeah. Promise? Yeah. We're friends? Okay. Are you ashamed of it? No, no. I think it's really neat and I'm proud of it.

So why would you care in the world what a five or six year old has to say? I just, maybe not so much shame, but you know, you see, you hear about the stigmas of how kids are raised by, you know, just a mom and, you know, they, I don't want her to feel like she's missing out on anything. But she is. I mean, she's missing out on a dad, right? Yeah. So you don't want that, but there is.

And I think you can make a great home and life for her. Yes. But also, it's a both and or an either or, right? Yes. So I think there's some truth to that. Here's the hard reality, is she does have a biological father somewhere. Yes. And I picked an open donor.

Okay. And she knows that when she's 18, she's allowed to pursue it. Awesome. Okay. Is that person interested in that pursuit when they're 18? I don't know. It's, it was through a sperm bank and I think basically all they do is just hand them paperwork of what they have, you know, and it's up to you, which I will do whatever she wants. Sure. But I try to also, she's got, and we're friends on like Facebook. We have a private Facebook with the other moms. And I think you've got 23 other half siblings that, you know, none of them have a dad and they're all doing good. Allegedly.

And please don't put that on her. No. Because the way you're saying that is there's 22 other ones that are doing great and you're the oddball here. And I don't think that's accurate. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Every one of those kids is going to wonder who am I? And every one of those kids is going to wonder where am I from? And every one of those kids is going to wonder the question that all children ask, which is, why didn't dad want me? And they don't understand the complexity of modern science and technology and the abilities that we all have now. And so those questions are going to remain. And I think the challenge is not to squash those questions or to beat them out of a kid, not literally, but figuratively, and to truly honor those questions

because they're existential, right? I mean, they're spiritual in a way. They're woven into us, right? Mm-hmm. And so I think it's providing a context for safety to ask any and all questions. And I also think it's very important to have conversations about, there are private conversations.

There are private things that we talk about, mother and daughter, that are not to be shared with other adults. And if she chooses to share those things, then she is choosing to opt out of something that, some sort of thing that she loves, accountability. Is that, does that make sense? Yes. I just didn't, I didn't understand how she's, you know, we're very, I'm very open about it. And. So do you understand how, how, but let me say it like this.

She sees a mom who's incredibly open, talks about anything with a six-year-old, which I think you should be pretty careful. There's a difference between openness and oversharing, right? My friend Rachel Cruz says, share, don't scare. There's a sense of, and I think you nailed it on the head. I picked you of all the kids in the world. I chose you.

Those are, That's really important language. But you can understand that when she sees such an open mom talking about anything and everything, and there's no shame, and let's talk about it all, that then all of a sudden, there's just some other adults that she likes and that you seem to like that she starts having the conversation. And it's like, show, what are you doing? And a six-year-old, that's a hard toggle for a four, five, and six-year-old. Learning the social nuance and what's cool and what's not cool. And here's my concern. My concern is she sees you wince or she feels your tension or anxiousness and she will then make that a problem that she has to solve. And that's why I asked you,

the first question I asked you is, are you ashamed of this? Or are you questioning your choice? Because she's going to absorb that and that questioning is going to come off as she's questioning me. See what I'm saying? Yeah, it's more of how she says it to people. It's like a pity for her. I'm the only one who doesn't have a dad.

No, you're not. There are a lot of kids out there that don't have dads. There's a lot of kids that do have dads. They don't want anything to do with them. Right. But she's six and that's a hard thing to process for a six-year-old. And in her world, you and I can tell the difference between, hey, that lady's just on boyfriend number four and that guy's on wife number five. For her, all her friends have dads. Yeah. There's a paternal figure.

And when you and I even both know all her friends, that's not even true. Right. But in her six or seven-year-old little mind, it is. Yeah. And so one of the questions that young children are constantly asking, and this is an unconscious question, do I belong, do I belong, do I question. Do I belong? Do I belong?

Do I belong? Do I belong? Do I belong? And some kids, when they feel like they don't belong, they shut the system down. Other kids, when they feel like they don't belong, they race out to pull the bullets out of everybody else's gun. It becomes a tool, right? And so you just have a daughter who's learning from her mom that can talk about anything whenever we want. And she's probably doing what my daughter did and weaponizing that a bit. And if she can get some pity, then adults will bend down and look her in the eye and talk to her in a quieter voice and say, oh, but you're loved. And that gives her exactly what she's looking for. So the goal as a parent is not to shut the questions down. It's to give her those things in other areas so that she doesn't have to go searching for it here.

Yes. Does that make sense? Yeah. Um, does she understand the difference between private conversations and not? We're working on it. Okay. I sometimes have to have to explain to her that, you know, things we talk about, you know, not all, not all people, you know, at her age are going to understand and talk about. So don't go sharing with your friends, everything. Well, and, and so I remember one time, my son, he's probably eight or nine. He said something or did something. And we got in my truck and I looked at him and said, dude, will you just be cool? And I could tell on his face. I remember laughing.

He has no idea what the phrase, dude, will you just be cool, means. He did not know what that meant. And if I had looked at one of my grown-up buddies who had said the exact thing and said, dude, will you be cool? They would have known, yeah, I probably shouldn't have said that. And so I had to be very explicit.

So if we talk about something, if she asks a question like, mommy, why don't I have a daddy? And you've answered that question 500 times. Yes. You can go with the answer that you've given her. That's age appropriate. That's not some big over-explanation or some under-explanation or some dishonesty, but like a good straightforward, here's the answer. It followed by, and this is a private conversation between mom

and the little girl that she loves more than anything. And what does private mean? And so my kids know the difference between secrets and private things. And private is also a word we use for bathing suit covering areas of our bodies. Like what is okay and what's not okay. What's okay to be seen. What's okay for touch, all that kind of stuff. We have that conversation. So the word private means not embarrassed or shame. Private means incredibly special. Okay. Does that make sense? And so private means something that like, I'm going to like, this is for me. You see what I make sense? And so, private means something that, like, I'm gonna, like, this is for me. You see what I'm saying? And not in a,

nobody can see this because it's shameful or gross. No, opposite. Okay. Okay? Does that make sense? Okay. Yes. Yes, it does. But I want to go back to the very beginning. I want you to make peace with the world that you've created Yes, are you at peace with it?

Of how I decided to have her on my own no I i'm a hundred percent confident there It's i'm getting the sense and tell me i'm off because I could be way out to lunch here i'm getting the sense that Either it's more difficult or you weren't anticipating these questions or the explanations aren't working. It's just different than you felt or thought or hoped for.

I didn't think it would happen this soon. I thought kind of things happen when they're like 13. Oh, man. Okay. And she's very smart for her age and talks like a little adult and takes things in like a little adult maybe it is because it's just me and her but when she was like four and she started asking kind of questions i'm like okay where's the book for this and you know because this is a simple i mean this is a unique situation not everyone in shawnee you know has done this

i can imagine that number is very small. Yes. But there is a couple of great books. I don't have them off the top of my head on Amazon that you can find and that are just good reading books that walk through this. And it may be great if you can. Maybe these Facebook groups can help, if you can find somebody who's a teenager or an adult who was conceived this way that would be able to talk to your daughter in some sort of high-level relationship kind of way. It might be good to have some, like a light out ahead of this path here for her. Okay.

And it might be good for you to have some parents down the road. Have you spent some time with them? Other women that have done this? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Some of them are, they're a little on the far end, and I almost want to say like man haters a lot of times.

Yeah. And so it's kind of hard to find one that, you know, just did this because it was her time and just didn't have the best relationships to wait for the right one. Gotcha. So I think, I think it's worthy of finding one or two mentors that you can have on text

thread that you can text and be like, whoa, my eight year old just asked this. And they'll be like, yeah, it's going to be weird. Here's how I asked this. I think that's super, super valuable for you. Okay. Yes. I'll look into that.

Let me give you one last little tidbit. She can never become your best friend. Okay. She can't carry the weight of the adult decisions that you have made and have to make moving forward. Right. 25 is the cut decisions that you have made and have to make moving forward. Right. 25 is the cutoff that I give folks. Okay. 21, you can take your kid to get a tattoo and a drink. That's fine.

All that's fine. 25 is when you can transition to like, no, we're peers. We're buddies. And there's still that weird, like, we're not going to talk about sex. We're not going to talk about some of that stuff. But we can talk about a lot more in a friend kind of way. But man, she can't handle that weight of that relationship. She needs to see her mom have grown-up mom friends. Okay. That's a really important gift for her. Okay. All questions. They're all okay, and they're all worthy, and they're all good. Let's work really hard on upstream. Where are moments that you are putting your hands on her face during a day, hopefully every day?

Yes. you're playing Wolfpack 2 or whatever weird thing she's imagining. Or when there's no talking and she's just tired and y'all just color together next to each other. Where are those moments constantly popping up, popping up and they're going to be intentional. Where those come so that it's not, she doesn't have to have these big emphatic dramatic moments to gain adult attention and adult care and adult love. They're going to come

along the way and she's going to push the boundaries and she's going to find out what's cool and what's not cool. And she's going to have to learn social situations and things like that. And that's where the conversation about privacy is really important. But all told, it's both and. You're a mother who loves her daughter and you chose her. And she's not going to have dad. There's both of those things. Both those things And she's not going to have a dad. There's both of those things. Both those things are true. And she does have a dad that she's going to meet someday, maybe. So understand there's going to be a lot of complexity there.

There's going to be a lot of stuff that's going to be different than a quote-unquote traditional childhood. And I know it's super hip and cool to be like, there's no such thing. There is such thing. And so understand that she's going to have ups and downs and hard questions and easy questions and softballs and Nolan Ryan fastballs. That's just part of parenting. And it always, always comes earlier than you think. All the questions, all the hard ones, they come earlier than you think.

Thank you so much for the call. Deidre. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go out to Atlanta, Georgia, home of the second place behind the Astros, Braves. What's up, Brian? Hey, John, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. You got it.

What's up, brother? Got a two-part question I'm hoping you can help me with. Let's do it. Am I wrong for asking my wife to go to counseling with me? And if not, how do I encourage her that we need it? And the backstory to it is this is my second marriage. Been married almost four years. Have three teenage boys and then a two-year-old daughter.

About eight months ago, started noticing a change and knew something was off. And then back in January, discovered she was talking to an ex for about six, seven, eight months. Said it was nothing physical. Don't think it was after doing some investigating. And she just basically thinks that I should forgive her, let it go, and move on with life. Have you been cheated on before? No.

Okay. To answer your first question no if your marriage is going wonderful if your marriage is hanging on by a spider's web asking the person you care about can we go see a professional that can help us either take this relationship to the next level, to insulate it for things that are going to come because things are going to come, or to save this thing. No. Asking your partner to go see a therapist, to go see a marriage counselor, is one of the highest forms of honor, I think. I asked my wife recently, and she said,

Oh, thank God. I was about to ask you. So, no. I think that's something that is of high honor. She doesn't get a vote into how you quote unquote feel. She doesn't get a vote as to how, um, you should respond. Was she sending photos back and forth? Uh, yes, there was photos.

She basically said, we're good friends. I didn't tell you because I know you wouldn't want to be friends with somebody of the opposite sex. That's just gaslighting. She's just trying to make you the bad guy here. What kind of photos? Her in a bikini.

Bro. Brian, you know. You know. Oh, yeah. I'm not an idiot. You know, I know there was more there than just friends because I don't have a female friend that I would

send myself out at the pool pictures. I know. Yes. You know, Brian, you know, right.

So it's one of those things where I don't know. It's like, it was, it was obviously more than just friends. You know, you have, I'm not friends with, I mean,

I'm friends with my ex because we have kids, but all our text messages are with my wife included in a group text message. That's very, very wise. That's very wise. Just because I don't want that situation to come up, you know, and I told her, you know, when we sat down and talked about it, I'm like, you know, it may not have been physical, but it's still an emotional affair absolutely and she doesn't she doesn't agree that it's an emotional affair she's like it was just friends i'm like if i said if you caught me talking to another woman behind your back sending her pictures of me in the gym or me

you wouldn't just go oh okay y'all are just friends i understand her sending you bikini photos or topless photos and being like, no, we're just friends. And you'd be like, oh, no, no.

Right. You're not crazy. So I'm assuming you asked her to go to counseling and she said no? She's a very private person. Well, she's going to be private

all by herself. Right. Because you don't trust her and you shouldn't and she is not doing anything to regain that trust other than blame you for how you should be feeling it's not that big a deal oh my gosh i knew you were gonna act like this all that gaslighting bullcrap right and you have a two-year-old and you've been through hell before with a divorce you know how awful it is and my fear for you is you're gonna think so little of your own self-worth

you're gonna shut this sucker down and just deal with what comes and that's that's kind of the reason that what made me call you is there is zero intimacy in the in the marriage um she blames it on the kid and you know her body um the one that she's sending pictures of to her ex right and that's uh you know the uh and that's that's what i've said and you know basically she has said, if I don't let it go, then I need to let her go. Um, wow, bro. Do you hear what, I mean, yeah. Oh no. I know. I'm just trying to what, what, like, obviously you can't just convince somebody to go to counseling. If they're not going to go,

they're not going to go. Brian, she has left your marriage. Brian, Brian, Brian, she has left your marriage. This is a common move.

She's trying to make this whole thing your fault so that you will ultimately leave. And that's, that's exactly what I told my, my pastor is how I feel. I'm telling you right now, she is done, and she's coming up with excuse after excuse. She's withholding intimacy or not going to a medical doctor

or a therapist to try to heal her body, heal her mind, heal her soul. It's not uncommon for there to be intimacy issues with a two-year-old in the house. That's very common. But what's not common is just throwing her hands up and blaming you for it. Right. Well, she said she's going to go to the doctor to see what's going on. And behavior is a language.

And she can say everything she wants, but her behavior is telling you she ain't going. And now she's making ultimatums and threats. If you don't shove your feelings in a box and bury them in the backyard, I'm out of here. And then when you can't do that because you have too much self-worth and you value the picture of marriage that your sons are seeing, you value what love and responsibility looks like for your two-year-old, she's going to leave and blame you.

He was crazy. He wouldn't let it go. And that's kind of what I've said is like, it's not good for the kids to see this, and it's not good for our daughters to see this because this isn't what marriage is. Yes, you are correct. So, I mean, is it something where I should just be like, hey, if you don't want to go to counseling, we probably need to go another direction. I will never be the person to tell you to leave your wife. I don't know you well enough.

I don't know her well enough, unless it is an incredibly abusive situation. No, it's not that. We get along. Of course you do. She's got things taken care of. Right. Yeah, she's not dumb. She's not dumb.

No, not at all. Very smart. Yes. If I'm in your shoes, what I would do is I would, A, start seeing somebody on my own. I would go call a counselor on my own. I would go call a counselor on my own. I do. I talked to, uh,

a pat, one of my former pastors that I want you to go see a clinical counselor. Okay. Uh, I want you to call a local counselor in your area and begin to sit down and work through it. Because my guess is how, why did you get divorced the first time?

Um, it was kind of oil and water um the crazy thing is we get the we get along better now as co-parents than we did as parents yeah it's actually i hear that with some regularity once the pressure of the marriage is gone people act like adults and then they act like grown-ups and they realize, I don't have to choose misery, but it's after everything's all wrapped up. Um, when you say oil and water,

I don't really buy that. What else was there? Oh, there, there really wasn't anything else. Was there anger and rage and people treating each other bad or? Yeah. I mean,

obviously we, we fought a lot and I mean, nothing physical ever, but it was just always, always arguing, fighting. It just was not a good situation. Okay. I don't want to blame that on, well, I was oil and she was water. Because if I was to drill down, I think me and my wife were oil and water, but we made a commitment and we figured it out.

See what I'm saying? Right. And so at the end of the day, there was some choices made. Probably my guess would be the choices were Brian, you need to shut your mouth. And that got hard. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. Yeah. And here we are again.

Right. And like an earlier caller, you married your unfinished business and we're right back in the same boat. Right. Have you sat down with your current wife and asked her to build a life with you? Yeah, and she says she's done with it. She's moving forward.

She wants us to move forward. You know, she's, she's been apologetic, but it's one of those things where it's, you know, it's, it's still in the back of your mind. You know, she says she, when we talk about it, she says she feels like I'm putting myself on a pedestal and putting herself, you know, below me because she was in the situation, not me. And, you know, I'm like, I'm not stupid enough to know that I couldn't have easily been in that situation that you put yourself in. You know, she said she made a mistake. You know, she was at fault. It should have never happened That's all true, that's all true and good for her Good for her for owning it

But she's not, she's weaponizing the apology She's not taking full accountability Right If I do that same thing And I tell my wife Hey, I really screwed up I put myself in a position And I compromised our marriage I didn't go all the way, but man, I screwed up really screwed up i put myself in a position and i compromised our marriage i didn't

go all the way but man i screwed up i screwed up what does rebuilding trust look like now because we got to build something new that's that's the path forward the path forward cannot be so you just need to suck it up and get over and i said i was you should just divorce me come on man right and that and and that's what i like she says forgiveness means forgetting and i'm like that's not it's not what forgiveness means i'm like i if i was in your situation i would i would say the same thing i would like hopefully you forget it um you know, you'll never forget it. Right. There is another man holding pictures of your wife wearing almost nothing or nothing,

depending on which ones you actually saw and that she deleted. Of course, it's going to be in your mind. Well, and he's married. So there's a, you know, there's a whole nother element.

Yeah. That's, I mean, that's getting into his head and world. I wouldn't even spend a second in that world yeah you've got enough trouble on your own in your own house here's the deal you're not crazy and when you're with a master gas lighter you can just start to think that the sky is actually red and green because they just say it so much, but you're not crazy. The question you need to get to the bottom of is that it is, does your wife want to be married to you or not?

And marriage looks like working really hard to regain intimacy in the house, not just sexual, but to regain connectivity. Intimacy, I mean, being married looks like waking up every day and taking a knee and saying, how can I love you more? And hoping to God that you do the same for her. Right. Marriage looks like, I hurt you and I'm so sorry. When you're ready, I'll do whatever it takes. Not.

Oh my gosh, are you bringing this up again? You're the worst. You should just divorce me. Oh, come on, dude. You know what I mean? Right. So let me close with this. I know what I'm saying is hard.

I also know that, you know, everything that I'm saying, and there's something in your spirit that does not want to confront the reality of your marriage right now. And my guess is, like I said earlier, you've been through hell with divorce again. And the thought of going through that again is so terrible. You're going to avoid it at all costs, even if it just means biting your lip and getting through it. And I can't tell you one way or the other, man. I don't know what you went through last time. I don't know what that cost you last time,

both psychologically and physically and financially. I don't know. I know that your house is cold right now. And I know that you're really, really lonely. And the person that you looked in the eye and said before your friends and family and God, I will forever. And she said it back, it's not coming back. And so y'all have to decide, are we going to build something completely new? And you need to ask her point blank, is she going to be a part of building something new with you? And if so, here's what this is going to look like. Here's what you need this to look like.

And then honestly, you're going to ask her, what does she need this to look like? And then y'all have to move forward or y'all got to have some hard conversations about what comes next. I wish you the absolute best moving forward, my brother. Please let me know how those conversations go. But it's time to stop circling and circling and circling

and it's time to turn all the lights on, turn the music off, party's over, the dance has stopped. We need to sit down at this table, let all the glitter on the floor land. And then we got to figure out what our relationship is going to be worth moving forward. It's hard, man, but I'll be with you every step of the way. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you.

So you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back as we wrap up today's show. On those awkward days when Kelly wore super short shorts down her left leg, you can see the Burlake tattoo. She is a Justin Timberlake fanatic. And so it doesn't surprise me that she picked today's song, Cry Me a River. Cry Me a River.

Cry Me a River. What a great song. It's such a good tune. And it goes like this. You were my sun. You were my earth. But you didn't know all the ways I loved you. No.

So you took a chance and made other plans. But I bet you didn't think they'd come crashing down. You don't have to say what you did. I already know. I found out from him. That's the worst way to find out. Now there's just no chance for you and me. There never, there'll never be.

Don't, don't it make you sad about it? You told me you loved me. Why'd you leave me all it? You told me you loved me. Why'd you leave me all alone? You told me you need me. When you call me on the phone, girl, I refuse. You must have me confused with some other guy. The bridges were burned. Now it's your turn to cry.

Cry me a river. What a great song. Listen, America, cry me a river. Just kidding, don't cry. Find some friends. What a great song Listen America Cry me a river Just kidding Don't cry Find some friends Go do something kind

Stay in school No new drugs All that stuff Love y'all Bye