The Dr. John Delony Show - Is My Husband a Sex Offender?

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

On today’s show, we hear from a wife dealing with the aftermath of her husband’s shocking confession, a mom unsure of how far to push her young daughter who’s not interested in having friends, and a man struggling with mental disorders that distort his perception of reality. Lyrics of the Day: "Mad World" - Tears for Fears Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How do I trust my husband after he had an affair with a minor? She was our babysitter. We had a little infant. So your therapist didn't make a report? No. No. Really?

Hey, what's up, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Talking about mental health, relationships, whatever's going on in your life. Your schooling's today. We're back to school. It's coming, man. If you made your back-to-school education plans,

if you were ready to get your lives and schedules back, or if you're like me, I'm going to miss my kids. We've had some great times this summer. I'm going to miss them, I think. And anyway, hey, if you want to be on the show, we talk about anything, whatever's going on in your life, however I can help and walk alongside you, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291.

And you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. And write in the form because it's 2002. Fill out the form and then we'll give you a buzz back and we'll have you on the show.

It'll be fantastic. All right, let's get right to the call. Let's go to Sarah in Pensacola. What's up, Sarah? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Thank you for calling. What's up?

Okay. I don't know. I guess I kind of need help. I'm kind of in a place where I feel stuck, I guess, in my marriage. I really don't know how... I don't know if I'm not trusting him.

You're him-hauling a little bit. Do this. Just get on the edge of the diving board and then just jump. Okay. Just jump on in. Okay. So, how do I trust my husband

after he had an affair with a minor? I mean, the girl is literally the age of my daughter now, and so it's just kind of hard. Okay, walk me through this, because my first thought is he's, you don't trust him because he's in jail. So walk me through. Well, he's, you don't trust him cause he's in jail. So walk me through. Well, he's not. Okay. Um,

okay. So this happened a long time ago. It's happened in 2006. Um, and the girl was, um, my husband, he was on staff at a church and she was,

um, around anyway. I get a hunch. Um, and she was around. Anyway, I get a hunch. How old was she? Okay, she was either 15 or 16. She had a birthday in there, or 16 and turned 17. How old was he? 23. Okay.

We were young. And then how old is he now? 38. Okay. We were young, but. And then how old is he now? 38. Okay. 39. When did you find out about this? His birthday. 2018.

He just kind of one day decided to tell me and. So you found out about this five years ago? Four and a half years ago? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I kind of had a you know a hunch and so i when i confronted him back then it was um met with a lot of anger like you know how could you think that about me and you know you're blah blah anyway terrible wife for thinking that and it kind of went on like that. Hold on, hold on. Were y'all married back when this happened?

We were. She was our babysitter. We had a little infant. But he made her our babysitter. And is he on staff at some church back then? He was, yeah. Is he still on staff at some church back then? He was, yeah. Is he still on staff at a church now? He actually just lost his job about a month ago.

Good, good. Absolutely good. Man. There's so much here, okay? Golly, so much here let me yeah before i just start lobbing grenades you tell you ask your question how do you trust him now what what has happened in the last week or two weeks or three weeks that made this all bubble up because you've known about this for five years and if we're all honest with ourselves you've known about this for 18 years. You've known. You knew, right?

So here we are. What's made this, like, bubble up to the surface? I don't know. I'm not real good at letting myself think about things. And so I kind of, the more I've been letting myself think about it, the more, I guess, angry and grossed out. I mean, I become, I guess, you know, with my daughter being on that age now too. Is it his daughter as well? A little hot.

Yes. Okay. And it's just sort of, I don't know, it's getting worse, I guess, more than it's getting better. I mean, we were counseling all this stuff and actually our counselor kind of, because we're stuck, I guess, kind of wanted that I just need to make up my mind. And, you know, until then there's really nothing else we can do. Did your counselor report this? Because your counselor is a mandatory reporter for child abuse and there's not a statute of limitations that I know of on child abuse.

Especially in a context where someone still has access to minors like your husband has had for the last 15 years as an on-staff minister. So your therapist didn't make a report? No. No.

Really? Yeah, I mean. I would recommend with all of my being that you either contact a friend who's an attorney or you file on this person's license because they shouldn't be a therapist at all. Because you cannot let this stuff just roll out. on this person's license because they shouldn't be a therapist at all. Because you cannot let this stuff just roll out. Like your husband violated a child. He committed a crime, right? Yes.

Yes. I mean, everything, because I was talking to my pastor's wife and she was just sort of saying, because he ended up telling them as well that's not actually what he lost his job they were just making cuts so they

they were like oh well alright just act better next time and this isn't the first church he's been fired from for different things like like sexual things. Like this is the, well, this is the second for that, but. What are the other sexual things he's been fired for? The first one, this is before, I think before I had our first child, it was something with email, sending emails to someone in the church,

and they linked the emails to his computer, which he still denies all of it, but that was him. That you know of, and there's knowing like cognitively, like in your head, like facts, and then there's knowing like cognitively, like in your head, like facts, and then there's knowing. And you're a wife and a mother.

And so you know, you know. Has he cheated on you since then? I don't think so. I mean, another piece that graces me out is that not only was he on staff, but he was working with youth groups for years. I know, I know, I know. Hold on, hold on. But he's not on the phone

with me right now. You are. Yeah. And I always want to be respectful and kind on this show, but I got a little girl, Sarah. And I've worked with ministers and I've worked behind closed doors with churches.

And my tolerance for this is less than zero. And there was a predator that you had a hunch about and you said nothing for a long, long time. And so some of this rage and anger that you have is at him and it's appropriate, but it's also at the mirror, because now you're looking at a 16-year-old who's in your home, and you're going, oh, whoa. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that your husband's a creep.

He's a criminal. And he does not display good judgment when it comes to sexuality and stewarding the role he has, whether he's a teacher or a therapist or a minister, there is an elevated responsibility to create incredible gaps between you and any sort of sexual feelings

towards somebody because they feel them and it distorts relationships. And I cannot wrap my head. I think the last number I read was, it's something wild. The number of, it's in three figures. It's like 100 or 150. It's something wild the number of it's in three figures it's like 100 or 150 it's some wild number the amount of times somebody acts out sexually before they get caught with minors it's wild i mean it was it was i couldn't believe it. If my friend, she's a researcher into this stuff, into sexual abuse, particularly at churches, I wouldn't have believed it except that I trust her so much.

And so to answer your original question, you don't. There's nothing to respect here. I'm more concerned that you knew about this four and a half years ago and you didn't send him out the door that second. Because you had a 12-year-old at the time. I'm concerned that he's still floating around. Help me with that because I want to give you, say the right thing that you will look in the mirror and say, what am I doing? And I'm sorry that your church leadership has failed you so dramatically. They're disgusting and they're an embarrassment. They should not be in church leadership. And I hope that your senior pastor, I hope he gets fired too. Hope he's gone for allowing this to continue and continue and continue.

And I'm all about grace and redemption. That's a cornerstone of this show. But dude, I'm not going to put you in a position to hurt kids. I'm just not. Yeah. And I just don't have any quarter for that, man. I just don't. I've just seen the wake of children, man. It just causes so much disaster in people's lives and families.

All I have to say is this. Like, what can I do to help you, to empower you to say, whoa, what am I doing here? I don't know. I mean, because I've, I mean, as of yesterday, you know, just kind of talking to him, like, look, I really feel like I need a divorce. Like, I just can't look at you and, you know, be okay. Like, and so I don't, I don't really know. What's the hang up? Like, right there, what's the hang up?

I mean, finances, you know, we have three kids together. And it's just sort of, I don't know how to navigate that. My twin brother offered to pay for the attorney and everything. I'm just like, but, you know, I don't know how to go past that, like how to live. I'm a teacher. And so it's just sort of, you know. So here's the best way to look at it. Um, you're in Florida, right? Um, I grew up in Houston. So you and I both have a mutually similar experience, which is hurricanes coming through and just wiping things out.

Right. And we get a couple of weeks notice and then it becomes a few days notice. And then it's like, oh, this is really happening. And then it becomes a shell game. Right. You don't know where this thing's going to land, what's going to hit. It'll take out a neighborhood, but not the street. I mean, not the houses across the street. Right. You just don't know. OK. What you haven't come to terms with is that a hurricane has destroyed everything for you. And stupor is a negative way to say it. There's a shock when you'll see somebody walking on the wreckage of a home that's burned down or that's been knocked down by a natural disaster. And they are looking for something because they got to pay a bill. They just need to find that little folder that had all their bills

because their water bill is going to come due. And it's like, I'm just getting to the next thing and the next thing. And it's one of those that you got to stop and just walk out in the street and take a big wide view. Your home is gone. Okay.

And what you're trying to do is your husband threw a grenade in the middle of your home. He threw it in the middle of a young girl's life, at least one, if not more. And I cannot remotely imagine there's just one because he got away with it got away with it um and your pastors failed you probably you're um one of the most you probably heard me say this on the show one of the most damning things about this kind of situation is you had a gut feeling way back in the day and you got gas lit out of your own feelings. You became the bad person for even suggesting this happened. And you learned really quickly in your young marriage

to shut your mouth and not believe your gut feelings. And now you're realizing, oh no, I didn't trust myself. And then there's a guilt that comes with that and shame that comes with all that. And guilt and shame cycles us down and then we don't act. And then you had the brave and the re and the courage to tell somebody and they failed you.

They let you down. And so what I want you to do is to walk out in the middle of the street and turn and look. Like it's a mess. And right now I'd be really concerned about my three little girls or my three kids. I don't know if you got three little girls and he got 16 year old. I'd be concerned about my, the safety of my kids. Absolutely. Finances is a thing. I don't want to minimize that at all. Not even a little bit. There's some harrowing data that suggests that when couples get divorced, the man's net worth actually goes up and the woman's goes down. So yes, this is a mess. It's an absolute mess. And

he'll have some financial obligations, obviously, to your family. Your life will change. Whether you end up in an apartment and this picture of your life that you've had is gonna be dramatically different. Whether you've gotta leave Florida and go move with family somewhere across the country. I don't know what that looks like. But you're pretending that your house is still standing and it's not.

Okay? And I'm telling you that just because I love you and i i'm heartbroken for you and if i'm being 100 honest i'm really frustrated with you because you should have reported this a long time ago but here we are okay here we are the best we can do when life has dealt us insanity and we either were abused into staying quiet, we said the wrong things, we did the wrong things. I have things in my past that I was like, man, I wish I could have that, do that over.

I wish I could do that over. I wish I hadn't said that. I wish I had like all those things. And then I find myself here. And the only thing I can do, I cannot go back and edit the past. The only thing I can do is write something new moving forward. And so what I would tell you is your community, your kids, and you are waiting right now for what you're going to write next. The past is what the past is.

When you said yesterday, I think I want a divorce, how did that feel? Did it feel right? Did it feel scary? Like, how did it feel? I mean, it seemed very, I mean, to even think, we've been married so long, it's just sort of part of my life. And so just sort of part of my life. And so it's, well, obviously it's part of my life, but I don't even know how to go that route.

Like, it does scare me. It should, it should. It's scary. And you say you've got a family member that's offered to step up. I mean, when you told your brother this, what did he say? Oh, he's never liked him, my husband.

Good for him. When we first got together, honestly, it was just sort of right after some junk that happened in college. And I was probably not in a good place anyway for a relationship. And he was trying to tell me back then, you know, it's just not a good, he's not a good guy. Hold on, I want to push, I want to stop with you. What junk happened? It was, you know, how do I explain it?

It was, Just say it. I guess call it rape. Okay. Say it. Say it out loud. It was... I got raped at work. Okay.

And it was... Hold on. Stop right there. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that happened to you. And that makes me think all the more that you married a predator, someone who moves in. Is that fair? Tell me if I'm wrong.

I have no problem being wrong. No, I mean, I've... Someone took everything from you. And then somebody swooped in to fix it, make it all better. Is that fair? Yeah, probably. I'm so, so sorry.

I'm heartbroken for you. And what it sounds like to me is that your marriage has been over for a long, long time. And in a very trauma-oriented way, you've been going through the motions, keeping this thing up, keeping this thing up, keeping this thing up. And as the great Vander Kolk says, the body keeps the score.

And there comes a moment when your body will shut you down. Yeah. And you're getting pretty close right yeah yeah yeah um i have a um like just a policy just as a way of life it's not for the show it's just me just as a regular old dude in my neighborhood who goes to tractor supply and to get chicken food, right? Like just as a regular guy, I don't tell people to, except in very rare situations that you need to get out of a situation. And I'm telling you, I think you need to get out of this situation. I don't see a scenario where this ends well. Okay. And I feel emboldened to say that because your brother,

who loves you, who knows you better than probably most anybody else, said, I'll put my money on the table. Get out. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I will walk alongside you. I'd love for you to call me back through this process. And I know this is a really heavy call, I know. And it's probably not what you expected. Maybe it's what you expected, who knows? Your healing journey is gonna have to include, it's gonna have to start with you learning to trust you again.

And you haven't trusted yourself for a long, long time. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. You are way, way stronger than you think you are. And you've had a predator for years telling you to shut up and you don't know what you're talking about and how, oh my gosh, that's so dumb. And then you had a bunch of kids and you just got busy. And then you got fired again and you thought, what am I doing? Yeah. If I'm you, that's all I can say. I can't tell you what to do.

If I'm you, I would hang up this phone and I would go for a walk. And if you're a person of faith, I would pray. If you're not a person of faith anymore, I would do box breathing around my block, which is just breathing in four, holding it for four, exhaling for four, and holding it for four again. And I would do that and walk around my block. And then I would call my brother and say, I want to meet because I have to make some changes. And whenever we go

through a moment of like where we realize everything's different, having somebody, a couple of people in our lives that we trust that will walk alongside us is paramount because we don't make good decisions. We don't think clearly our bodies are in a state of fight or flight and yours has been in a fight or flight for a long, long, long time.

And so having somebody who's clear headed, who will walk alongside you, man, someone's gonna financially help out for a season is beautiful and great. And he'll help you find an apartment if that's what you have to do. And he'll help you when an apartment if that's what you have to do. And he'll help you when your husband blames you for all this and tells your daughters,

this is all your mom's fault. All that crap that's gonna happen. It's all that's coming. You said earlier, you don't remember, like this has just been your life. And so let me tell you what's on the other side of this thing. You haven't slept a full night's sleep in a long time. And you haven't felt desired and loved in the way that a husband or wife should.

And you haven't felt safe in a long, long, long time. That's what I hope for you, because you're worth all that. Thank you so much for the call. We'll walk alongside you. And any of those, tell your pastor to call me. Love to talk to that dude on the phone. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now

and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new homebuyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control,

like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their Home Buyer Edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out.

So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillmortgage.com slash D'Loney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we are back. Let's go to Susan in Chantilly Lace with a pretty... What's up, Susan? In Virginia.

Hi. Hey, what's going on? Well, I seriously considered doing this call entirely in song lyrics, but then I realized I'm 40 and I'm tired. Listen, listen. So I'll just get to my question. Listen, I'm in my 40s too. No excuses. We only do song lyrics. I'm 40 and I'm tired. Listen, listen. So I'll just get to my question. Listen, I'm in my 40s too. No excuses.

We only do song lyrics. I'm in if you're in. Let's do this. Well, my last Flipknot concert was 20 years ago. That's half my lifetime ago. Your last what? Your last what concert? Flipknot.

Flipknot. Oh, yeah. It's been a long time for me too. Long, long time. So if we could do Lori Berkner and Rafi, I'm in. I can't hang. I couldn't hang. All right.

I'm tired and old too. All right. Let's just do it. So my seven and a half year old daughter seems to have a super high level of self-preservation. And I just kind of wanted to talk through where that would have come from or what we can do to help her and support her. Because it doesn't seem like, as I look out on her peers, that she seems to be a bit more than them at this age. Okay. What do you mean by self-preservation?

So she doesn't really associate with peers that much. She likes older kids, specifically older girls. And she seems to look down on peers, almost judgmentally. Yeah. And so my husband and I do a lot to try to not make our kids feel like they're wrong. I don't want to make her think the way she is is wrong. But I don't know how hard to push her or what's developmentally appropriate and just kind of wanted to get your feedback. That's fantastic.

Okay, seven-year-old who's... Yeah. Okay. I mean, there's a lot of fun we could have with this one. Sure. So out of the bag, and I'm going to throw some things up against the wall, and your job is to tell me when I'm wrong, okay? Okay. And I have no hard feelings, so you can be like, nah, you're wrong. But I'm usually not.

Is that fair? Is that cool? Sure. She, which one of you is like that in the real world? You or your husband or both? My brother. Your brother. Is he with, is he in the home with y'all?

No. Okay. He sees him maybe three times a year and that's, you know, a day at a time or something. He doesn't, she doesn't see that. So that means it's probably you that she's getting this from. I guess. That's so great. Okay.

So here's a couple of like big picture things. Okay. Number one, coming out of COVID where kids got to spend an inordinate amount of time with their parents. This is not uncommon. Kids have, especially younger kids, have been introduced to adult conversations in a way that they haven't traditionally been exposed. And so I don't know what your work from home situation has

been like. I don't know what the schooling and the masking and the homeschool. I don't know what y'all's situation is like. But the first thing is to think of, has your daughter been exposed to more adult conversations? My six-year-old daughter has – she would rather hang out with – well, it's not totally. But she's been engaged in more adult conversations or been around more adult conversations than my son ever was because he was in school with a bunch of other knuckleheads. And so that's number one. The second thing is kids – you can imagine me. You listen to this show very often? Okay, you'll get a kick out of this.

I was in a counseling conference once, and they were talking about childhood development and the ways to interact with kids. And then the presenter, some fancy PhD psychologist, turns around and goes, oh, yeah, we all know this, but I'll just reiterate it. Kids under the age,

I think she said seven or nine, cannot process sarcasm. They can't process it. So they hear the words as facts. They'll even laugh with you. They'll get your jokes, but their body internalizes it as data. And I raised my hand.

I was like, I need to stop you right there. Say what? And so when I were saying things about like my closest friends in the world, like that guy's an idiot or, oh, great. My friend Todd's coming over. Todd is one of my favorite people on the planet, but I'm just being a goofy. My son was internalizing that as dad doesn't want this guy to come over. And then dad got to watch me smile and carry on

and hang out with my friend, and it made my son very confused. See what I'm saying? So if your daughter's growing up in a sarcastic, silly, fun, like, oh my gosh, household, there's an elevated understanding of how the world works. See what I'm getting at? I think so.

Is that possible? Are either of those situations possible? We're not super sarcastic, but we are silly. Okay. And she does use sarcasm. Okay. So she's definitely,

I mean, she would have gotten it from us, but I don't, I would have to actually think about that more. Okay. Think about that more. And by the way, I should have prefaced think about that more. Okay. Think about that more. And by the way, I should have prefaced this whole thing with this. Everything moving forward, please, please, please don't hang on to a shred of guilt.

Okay. All we're doing is learning like new skills. Okay. There's no, I don't want you to hang up and be like, oh no, our daughter's screwed up because of me. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Your daughter's clearly got two parents who love her a lot,

which is going to get her as far as she needs to go. Okay. That's really important. Here's another question. Do you have friends? Yes. Do you go hang out with them? Sometimes.

Yes. What does that mean? Yeah. No, you don't. A lot of it is play dates. You don't. You don't. Things like that.

Do what? Oh, it's a lot of playdates. And then I just push the kids away so the moms and I can talk. So you go, she gets to see you having adult friends. Yes. Especially this last year. Before that, no. Okay.

So this is like a new thing. Let me ask you another question. And you just alluded to it, which makes me want to high five you. Is she the center of the universe? Meaning when your husband, you get home from work, your husband gets home from work. Do y'all have adult talk time? Then you send her away. Yes. Okay. So sometimes center of the universe. I am a part of the adult conversations, not a part of the kid conversations. Okay. So sometimes center of the universe, I am a part of the adult conversations, I'm a part of the kid conversations. Okay.

She definitely, definitely wants to be part of our conversation. And she tries really hard. Okay. Great. And that means y'all are fun to be around, right? That's not something to lose sleep over. Tell me when she's with her friends, what's the concerning behavior? So going back a little bit, she was a daycare baby for four years. Okay. And I came home with my kids and we were home for a year before COVID

hit. So we were kind of in internal, like figuring out how we wanted to do things as a family. And we didn't do a lot of social things that year. We started getting involved in our church and then COVID hit, and then everything came to a complete stop. And she was four about? Yep. She was four when I came home and she was in daycare from six weeks to the day until her fourth birthday. Okay. And so for the first like eight months when I was home, she would cry when we had to leave the house. We have to go get groceries.

I don't want, you know, I don't want to go that kind of thing. Um, and so we just took it really easy and relaxed. Um, she didn't want to, she still doesn't want to leave the house sometimes a lot of the time.

Um, then COVID. So then this last year we homeschooled, we were part of a co-op and it took her six to seven months to warm up to anybody in co-op. She would beg to leave as soon as it was over, even though I was trying to talk to people and model that, you know, try to make relationships. And my son is the social butterfly. So he wanted to stay, but she would just begged me to leave. So in the last couple months,

I've been able to push her more into play dates and activities. And she walks away from kids. We'll go to the playground and she'll find it's too hot. It's too this. I'm hungry. I want to go. I want to go home. It doesn't matter what it is.

She finds a reason to not engage, even when the kids are super nice, and they ask her what she wants to play, and what does she want to do. She'll go climb a tree by herself. Yeah, I think it has less to do with the individuals, and my guess is her body's telling her she's not safe with other people. Mm-hmm. telling her she's not safe with other people and um i would probably like so like the picture you're painting for me is a very dialed in remarkable mom and dad and also a weird glitch in the matrix which i when i say glitch in the matrix, there's a combination of particular bodies. I have a more, I'm more sensitive to things than my son is more sensitive to things than my wife is.

Like in our response to things, okay? Not in a helping people when they're sick, but I have a more sensitive body. My ADHD is a response to a more sensitive body. Everybody's got different bodies, right? That respond to things. And so you take a body that's highly attuned, highly relational, highly smart.

And every day for four years, she misses mom, misses mom. And then all of a sudden I get mom all the time. All the time. And you can imagine, don't use your thinking brain, but you can imagine a four-year-old body that's been a little bit high alert. Where's mom? Where's mom?

Where's mom? Where's mom? Just suddenly relaxes in a deep way for the first time in a long time. And then all of a sudden, we're going to disrupt this. And it's like, there's a body saying,

hey, so what we're going to do is we've got to, over time, teach her body that it's actually safe with other body saying hey so what we're gonna do is we've got to over time teach her body that is actually safe with other people not only is it safe that's the key to growth and peace and all that given the as attuned as you and your husband are i would if this is my kid i would take my child to a play therapist and have them do a assessment of my kid. Because I'd want to check and see if she's on the autism spectrum, if she has social anxiety disorder. Is there some play therapy, some ways that we can get to some of the fears behind the actions, right? And kids speak via play. Another thing you may want to try is drawing pictures with her.

Say like, hey, we're going to draw pictures of us playing with our friends. And you draw a picture of you sitting with some moms or I don't know if you play volleyball or tennis or whatever you go do, or you're on the softball team, whatever is going on. And have her draw pictures of her playing with kids. And that often art can be a way just like play into a conversation that otherwise, if you just ask a seven-year-old, like, why don't you want to play with everybody? She's like, I don't know. But when you're drawing or when you're coloring, it's another avenue and the pictures will tell you a lot. Okay. But I would, if that's my kid, I would get with a registered play therapist in my

area and they are magic. And they're really frustrating to watch. If you watch them behind the one-way glass, because it really looks like you're just taking your money and flushing it down the toilet. You're like, what is actually happening right now? And it's pretty magical what can happen with a good play therapist. Okay. I just watch her stuff things inside stuff things inside she won't talk

she won't say you know what's bothering her and it just it's all internal and she looks at people on the playground when they're laughing

and screaming like they're lunatics I mean it's like that if things are if she's in a room

and it's chaos she can't she can't she hates it yeah so she cleans it up she what in a room and it's chaos, she can't. She can't. She hates it. Yeah. So she cleans it up? She what? She'll clean it all up? Not the room. I mean like

noise. Like Sunday school at church. She doesn't like to go to Sunday school because it's just a bunch of kids, you know, going and playing. I would go have her just have a workup done. And they'll give a perception inventory that will let her know like bright lights or loud noises or things like that may affect her

a little bit differently. And again, she, again, she may be on the autism spectrum. Um, I don't know how she, you'd have to sit down and do an ABA assessment, which I'm not qualified to do, but all I have to say is it often the sounds, the noises, the experiences, the overwhelming stimulation in an environment, you just slowly over time teach a kid how to, A, regulate their own bodies, and B, know when to step out, and C, know how to interact in there. Because we got to get on with our lives. The one thing I would caution you on is balancing her need for relationships, which is important with overwhelming situations. So if her body is telling you, I can't do Sunday school, it's a lot. Right now, until you get some more firm answers, I would say, cool, you can come sit with me. We are going to church. We are leaving the house, but you get some more firm answers, I would say, cool, you can come sit with me. We are going to church.

We are leaving the house, but you can stay with me. And staying with me involves not talking. You can color on this picture. I will not have a conversation with you. This is not playtime. Mom is engaged in Sunday school. Mom is engaged in her book club, but you can sit right there.

You're not going to sit on an iPad either. I'm not going to further overstimulate you. But you can not be in this chaos. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Yeah, yeah. It is how hard to... She begs me for things to do. She wants friends. I know she wants friends.

Right. And that always turns into like, I know she's lonely. Yeah. And that's the scary thing. Not scary. That's a dramatic word. That's a heartbreaking thing because she knows what she's missing, but her body's telling her don't go in there. Yeah.

And I just feel like I don't want her to be somebody other than she is, but I'm scared that she's going to miss out on the beauty and magic of childhood and fun and tag and friendships just because she's so inside. Okay, two important things. One, yes, if she's got just a social anxiety, what they'll do is they'll slowly, it's exposure therapy. They will slowly turn the dial. They'll read books about kids playing with friends. They'll draw pictures of it and they'll talk about it. They'll encourage you to have one friend, invite one friend over to your house and let her play there. So we're going to slowly open up the gate there. The second thing is this, and this is the pot talking to the kettle. Okay, this is just two parents hanging out I really struggled for the first several years of my son's life because he's different than me

And I had a picture of what a great life was And it was running around the neighborhood with a whole bunch of kids causing chaos and mayhem and staying up too late and getting in trouble and That is not my son chaos and mayhem and staying up too late and getting in trouble and that is not my son. And I really wrestled with, yeah, but if you would just do these things and he would put his hands over his ear, you know what I'm saying?

This is what... I would also challenge you, let her have her own planet. It's going to look different. She may be a person who just keys in on one or two close friends and you're a social butterfly and you like having people everywhere. So that's letting our kids be themselves and letting them be all in on themselves. It's when they can't, they really want to have friends,

but they can't even hang out with one, right? They can't even hang out with one. All that to say is, man, a lot of these conversations I have with moms and dads, it's moms and dads are chaotic and they are not plugged into their kids and they're blaming all their issues on their kids. I don't see that here at all. Not even a little bit. I think your daughter won the lottery with you and your husband, um, in a, in a pretty remarkable way. Um, I think now it's a matter of let's get some professional opinions who can actually watch her over a couple of sessions and see some behavioral patterns.

And also just take into consideration, hey, we're going to have a friend over to our house and we're going to play from this time to this time. And then you can have some quiet time on the back end. I'm not going to force your body into things when it's telling you otherwise, but we are going to have some boundaries and you're not going to run our household, right?

So there's just that fine balance there. But hey, let me know what the child psychologist says, the child counselor says. I'd love to get some feedback on that. That'd be really helpful for me just personally. And I want to hear about how your journey's going. We'll be right back. All right, we're back.

Let's take one more. Let's go to Joe in Waycross, Georgia. What's up, Joe? Hey, what's up, John? We're rocking on, man. What are you doing? Just trying to get better day by day. How are you?

That's exactly the same. Exactly the same. So what's up, man? Just had a question. Been listening to you for a couple months now. One of the things you say all the time brought up a question with me I wanted to ask. You go. You say all the time one of the keys to being well is owning and acknowledging reality.

Yes, sir. And as someone that struggled with mental health issues most of my adult life, I have a hard time being sure what reality actually is sometimes. Yes, sir. How can we be sure of that? Because I'm always being told, like I'll set boundaries with people and relationships.

And then when I start feeling those boundaries are being squashed, I'm always being told I'm wrong. Who's telling you that, Joe? Just everybody. It's like you set boundaries and you're always the problem. You're always the fault. Give me an example. Well, my ex-wife that I just got divorced from, girlfriends, parents.

But give me an example of a boundary you set that then somebody says you're the dummy for having a boundary. Well, since I've been divorced and started trying to date again, I'll say from the beginning whenever I start seeing somebody, these are certain things I don't want to do. There are certain aspects that are expected in a relationship. It seems like people only want you for certain things. Okay, so let me throw something out there. Let's say you're dating and you say, hey, I don't pay for anybody else's food. I just pay for mine.

And also, I'm not interested in a sexual relationship. I just want to date and have fun. And by the way, I only watch horror movies. That's it. I only watch crazy slasher films. In and of themselves, all three of those boundaries, they're not crazy or wrong or whatever. They're yours. And somebody can opt into a relationship with you or they can opt out of a relationship with you. It's when you decide that the relationship,

the allure of being with somebody is more important than what your body's telling you is important, becomes a problem or when it violates your values. Right. Right. So did any of those ring a bell? Well, yes.

Cause that's what I'm, that's kind of what I was getting at. Cause it's like people, I feel like people only want to be around me for what I can provide to them. Not for me is who I am. And whenever I call them out on that, I'm made to feel like a bad person. Because it's like, okay, when I'll start seeing somebody, it's like, okay, I want to spend time together,

get to know you, but then it's like, okay, well, you know, hey, since you're here, you know, you know, why don't you cut my grass? Or why don't you, you're handy, why don't you build me these shelves? Or it's like, hold on, you know, I know somebody you cut my grass? Or why don't you, you're handy, why don't you build me these shelves? Or it's like, hold on, you know, I know somebody can come over and do plumbing work

if you want, you know, because I've had many different jobs in my life. I came to spend time with you, not to be your employee. And that was how my ex made me feel. Which is, you know, and I don't want to do that again so when i start feeling used that's one of the one of your callers made me realize that one of my diet previous

diagnosis might have been one of my problems and i'm burning bridges too fast have you have you felt have you been used your whole life? I feel that way. Yeah. But then I started questioning if I was just burning bridges too fast. Okay. Here's two important things, okay, or three important things. Number one, if you and I spent a significant amount of time together, you could probably tell me some pretty wild stories from when you were younger.

Is that fair? Yes. Okay. You've probably seen and went through a lot as a kid. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. Often, those things that our bodies had to do to keep us alive when we were kids, like, I'm going to do all the chores around here so the dad

won't hit me anymore. I'm going to make sure this house is spotless so that mom won't fly off the handle and smash the cabinets. I'm going to, maybe if I fill in the blank, if I disappear, they won't hit me or abuse me. If I get between mom and dad, he'll hit me instead of her. We have all of these behaviors that show up when we're kids in their survival. And then those exact same things, our bodies remember those relationally

and they show up when we're adults and the nerd word is maladaptive. They screw up our adult relationships because we're not trying to survive anymore. And all it means is our alarm system's pretty highly attuned and it's what was once keeping us safe. A alarm that detects smoke is really important in a kitchen or in a house. It's not very helpful over a campfire, right? Same alarm is detecting the same set of chemicals. And in one place, it's really important. In one place, it's ruining everybody's good time because we just want to have s'mores, right? So here's, you asked a brilliant question, Joe, a really important question.

And you and I have different diagnosis probably, but I've had my own mental health challenges my whole life, okay? Especially into adulthood. Here's the two important things that guide me moving forward, okay? Number one is I get other people, particularly in my case and in your case,

other men that we do not have other people particularly in my case and in your case other men That we do not have Other people in our lives that are not romantic relationships, but they are accountability and trust relationships Okay What that looks like is this if my wife says something or does something over a period of a couple of days And I get to a point where I'm raged out, my body is acting in a bonkers way because I know my wife loves me and I know she wouldn't like try to hurt me,

but I just get angry. I have a couple of men in my life that I'll call and I'll walk through the situation and they'll say, Deloney, you're acting crazy. And because I know that my feelings can be a lot sometimes and my emotions can be a lot, I know that I don't always trust them. And so I've got a couple of guys that I do trust that if they tell me, hey, you need to go apologize to your wife and tell her you're sorry, I'll go do that because they're

right. See what I'm saying? So I have a group of men in my life that I outsource that I trust. The other thing in my life is that I have a very clear sense of what I call the objective data. Okay. I don't always feel like exercising. I don't always feel like saying, I'm sorry. I don't always feel like writing a thank you note. I don't always feel like going to bed, but I know those things help keep me well. And so I know the data is more important than how I feel most of the time. Does that make sense? Yes. So I've got some objective data in my life that I am pretty tied in with, okay? Whether that's meeting with a doctor, which I have, or whether that's coming up with objective, you know, my heart rate variability. And I know when I need to sleep versus wanting to go exercise

and things like that. I know I need to eat healthy most of the time because if I don't, then it starts to be on a path and then I end up being bonkers down the road, right? But all this to say is I know that my feelings and emotions aren't always, that they tell me a lot, but they don't always tell me the truth, okay? And so I'm going to find people that I trust and I'm going to find data that I trust. And I'm going to let those guide me when I'm struggling. Now, here's the big number three. The goal for all of us, whether we struggle with mental health or not, is to learn to trust our bodies. Okay? And if somebody asks you to do something and it makes you feel less than

or uncomfortable or like you're being used, trust your body, Joe. Okay? Until you have a close friend that's a mentor and you tell him and he says, dude, just help out.

But if you feel like you're dating somebody and they're treating you like a handyman, go with your gut on that one, okay? Okay. Is that fair? Oh, yeah. I mean, that was just an example. Yeah, no, I know. I know. But that's how I navigate, and that's how I tell other people to navigate. One of the wild things about psychiatry

and mental health challenges is at the root of your question, which is there is no objective blood test for depression or anxiety. There's no blood test for obsessive compulsive disorder, right? So you have to take somebody who's struggling with their thoughts and their feelings and emotions and communicate them in a way to a doctor that they can take a very imperfect tool with imperfect feelings and senses and data and try to give you a perfect diagnosis. That's why I have a lot of struggles with a lot of diagnosis that people get. But yes, the whole idea of it, it's tough, right? So get some people that you trust, get some data that you trust in your life. I feel good when I'm at this weight. I feel good when I exercise. I feel good when I've slept this many hours. Oh, I feel even better when I sleep this

many hours because I've got a continuous glucose monitor now that monitors what I eat. And I've got a whoop strap or whatever that, or the Hanu strap that monitors my heart rate variability, right? All these things that you can get in your life that you can trust. So some of the times I think I just need to sleep in. I need to sleep in. I can look at my heart rate variability and be like,

nope, I need to go run. Great, man. Because I know enough to know about myself that I don't always trust my feelings. I don't always trust my emotions. So I hope that helps answer your question, Joe. It's a great, great question. And I'm really grateful that you reached out and asked. Get some people, man, and get the right numbers around you and then trust that body. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get

rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back as we wrap up today's show. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for continuing to walk with us. We keep getting the show numbers and it's just growing like bananas. I'm just so grateful. I'm overwhelmed with the gratitude. So thank you so much for being with us,

for passing the show along to your friends, for leaving reviews, for doing all the things. Thank you so, so much. Song of the day. Dude, I actually love Tears for Fears.

They were one of my jams. Did you ever get into them, Kelly? Oh yeah, very much so. Oh, did you? Yeah. Oh man, I didn't think their hair was long enough or teased up enough back in the day. There's photos.

Tears for Fears, man. A great song called Mad World, and it goes like this. All around me are familiar faces and worn out places and worn out faces, bright and early for their daily races going nowhere. And their tears are filling up their glasses, no expression. Hide my head, I want to drown my sorrow, no tomorrow. And I find it kind of funny and I find it kind of sad.

The dreams in which I'm dying are the best I've ever had. And I find it hard to tell you because I find it hard to take when people run in circles. It's a very mad, mad world. It is a mad world, and that's why we're here, good folks. We'll see you soon.