The Dr. John Delony Show - Is My Husband Gaslighting Me?

Episode Date: August 8, 2022

On today’s show, we hear from a woman who suspects her husband is gaslighting her, a man desperate to save his parents from their toxic relationship with his addict brother, and a mom unsure of how to earn her defiant son’s respect. Lyrics of the Day: "Father of Mine" - Everclear Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. If I ask a direct question, as simple as, are you going to the store tonight, just make me feel like I'm crazy for asking a question? For whatever reason, you asked that one question, and he feels a certain way. The response is, she's making me feel this way, so I've got to turn this back around on her.

What's up, what's up? This is the John Deloney Show, the Dr. John Deloney Show. Probably would help if I knew what this show was called. We talk about mental health, relationships. Nobody in the world calls me Dr. John, except for people who call the show My friends call me words that I won't repeat here Same with my wife She calls me John Deloney sometimes

Kelly, you call me mean things Not to your face That's true But sometimes they forward me the emails And I'm like, oh dang Hey, somebody asked I'm just teasing this, We'll have conversations later. Somebody asked, hey, I haven't heard from James in a while.

Just put a pin in that, listeners. Put a pin in it. Big James news coming up. There's not any big, I just love doing that. Big James news. He's like five foot four. There is no big James news at all, actually. Unless he plugs in his fenders and starts jangling his little heart.

Whatever. I'm not going to be mean to him. I haven't seen him in a while. I wonder if James isn't here. Why isn't he here? Why isn't he here? Why does he always make these hostile work complaints? Whatever.

Hey, if you want to be on this show, give me a call. 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. And yes, I got it. So the internets don't get all mad. James is like one of my closest buddies. He's awesome. He's a friend.

So don't send me mean cards and letters. All right, let's go to Rhonda. Help, help me, Rhonda in Oklahoma City. What's up, Rhonda? Hi, Dr. John. How are you? I'm rocking on till the break of dawn. All right, fantastic.

Things going okay? Doing all right? Doing all right. Very cool. So what's up? Well, I watched your show a while back, looking at gaslighting in the movie Tangled. My husband and I have been married over 10 years now, and he is an expert gaslighter. I've been through counseling, and my husband and I have worked through a lot of things. And while it's not as personal feeling as it once was, the gaslighting is still common. I'd like your advice on what to do when it is happening.

Okay, so, okay, this is some behind-the-curtain stuff. Whenever they came, the team came and said, hey, we want you to do some of these React videos. I was like, dude, no one's gonna watch this.

And so you're telling me that you watched the Tangled one. I did. Okay, and you recognized, oh man, this is us. This is me. This is my husband. Yes. Give me an. And you recognized, oh man, this is us. This is me.

This is my husband. Yes. Give me an example that you make. You just made the whole team feel good and you make me feel, I have to say I was wrong. So I said, no one's going to watch this. I was wrong. That's my one time. I'll say that for 2022.

So tell me what it looks like. Give me an example or two of your husband gaslighting you as an expert. Yes, as an expert. Well, one thing is just if I ask a direct question, it could be something as simple as, are you going to the store tonight? He'll ask me like, what do you mean go to the store? Or just make me feel like I'm crazy for asking a question. Something else might be if I'm going out with a family member or friend, he'll make some comment like, what's she going to wear tonight? Or somehow implying that it's inappropriate. So does it have to do with,

is he just poking at you? Is he belittling you? Or is it his way of saying, I don't want you to go, but he doesn't have the courage to state his needs out loud. So he just, he constantly makes you feel

a little bit off kilter and a little bit nuts. I think it's that last one. Okay. Okay. Or when you say, hey, are you going to go to the store tonight?

Is that you asking him somewhat passively, hey, I need some help around here. Could you run to the store for me? Or does he have keys in hand and he's walking out the door and you just ask, hey, where are you going? No, he's actually super helpful. Okay. And it's more, I think he puts pressure on himself. And so sometimes he's reading something into it that's probably not there. Oh, like you might be accusing him or...

Yeah, I think you might see it that way. Okay. So, again, I'm going to grossly overgeneralize this when it comes to men and women. But many folks, especially men, don't know the language of feelings. What I mean by that is something happens. Somebody asks them a question. They experience a thing. Somebody asks them, hey, will you help me with something?

And they don't want to do it. They can't do it. They don't have time to do it. And so they feel uncomfortable. Either they feel uncomfortable because they can't meet somebody's needs. They don't know how to do it. And so they feel uncomfortable. Either they feel uncomfortable because they can't meet somebody's needs. They don't know how to do something and they feel less than. Whatever the thing is, they're not well-versed in the language of feelings. And so this thing happens to their body and they begin to look externally as just somebody else's fault, right?

And that's where you come in. For whatever reason, you asked that one question and he feels a certain way, doesn't know how to look in the mirror and say, these are my feelings happening to my body about my issues. It's nothing to do with my wife. But the response is, she's making me feel this way, so I've got to turn this back around on her. Does that sound right? It sounds exactly right. Okay. So what do you do? What have you tried in the past that has worked or hasn't worked? I've tried a lot of things. Some have worked and some haven't worked. Definitely trying the same thing does not work.

Right. some things that work better than others is if I, you know, sometimes I'll just simply ignore it and just kind of move on. I feel like that can sometimes build up over time though, if it's not addressed. Sometimes if it feels more intense, I'll just exit. I want to point this out to everybody listening. Avoidance is, unless you're avoiding a bullet, right? You're avoiding physical harm.

Relational avoidance almost never helps. Yeah. Right? It almost never, sometimes it takes, it's not the right moment. Like if somebody is really fired up, this isn't the moment to have a deep conversation. But not circling back and avoiding it long term is never a good idea. So you've tried that. It doesn't work.

What else? Probably some of the best success is if I follow up with a question like, what makes you think that or what makes you ask that? Sometimes he'll be more open to it. Um, often he'll, he'll just, and it's, and it's like you mentioned certain topics are more sensitive than others. And so it's kind of those landmine topics that he just really puts up a big wall. Okay. So I want to flip the gaslighting conversation around for you, okay? Less about how you can deal with him and more about you, okay? So here's the path forward, I think, when it comes to gaslighting. You get very, very clear about your worth. You get very, very clear about I'm worth more than being talked to like this

or i'm not crazy stop talking to me like i'm crazy my request for you i'm your wife i need some help with fill in the blank um become very clear about what you like and what you don't like. The nerd word is these are just needs. Here's what I need. I need you to not come home and try to grope me when you're covered up in oil or whatever from changing that way. Like, I don't need that. Right. Or I need you to, yeah, that sounded kind of weird.

I was thinking about car oil, not like, um, Ben in the booth was starting to laugh and I'm not that kind of oil. It's not what I'm talking about. Um, but I need you to help with the dishes. I need you to help with, right? So what do you like? What do you not like? And then also this is important.

And this gets left out of the gaslighting conversation a lot. You have to learn to be comfortable with saying I was wrong. I messed up. Taking ownership of the times you do, like, you know, withhold or you're angry or you snap it, like, whatever, you fly off the handle. Coming back and saying,

nope, that's not gaslighting. I just, I was mean. I'm sorry, right? And then you have to get over this idea that it's your responsibility to make him feel good about himself. Is that fair? Yes, that's fair. And so then you land there. Um, you said things are getting a little bit better.

Yes. Tell me what that means. Um, so there's some things, um, one of the big issues for me was I really wanted kids. And quite frankly, that one, I just had to decide, you know, if I could live with him without kids. And I did. So I think that has calmed things down a little bit because he feels more secure that I've made that decision. Can we pause right there? Yes. Have you grieved that? I'm in the process.

Okay, okay. Yeah. If you don't, if you just make a logical, mathematical decision, that resentment will build up over time and will become highly explosive. Or worse, it becomes toxic, right? So explosive is we have this big blowout. Somebody cheats on somebody. It's a big explosion.

Toxic is we just slow drip, dislike and disgust and get away from me and you're gross and ugh. And you see him make a face and you interpret that negatively and he interprets your words negatively, it just poisons everything. If you don't grieve it and say, I wanted kids and I had a picture of our life having kids

and it's not going to happen and I'm choosing to stay in a relationship where it's not going to happen. And so ultimately the choice is mine and I'm making it and I'm going to grieve it and then we're going to move. Does that make sense? So make sure that you spend time

changing that picture for yourself. Okay, good. Okay, so you're dealing with that in process, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Does he know that he's, quote, unquote, getting what he wants? He didn't want kids.

Did you know that going in? No. Okay. Yeah, no, we had talked about it before, and it changed. So that was one of the hard things. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, we had talked about it before and it changed. So that was one of the hard things. Yeah. Okay. Does he have a language for, I made a choice that is an existential pain for my wife?

I don't think so. I think it's just a lot of fear. Okay. He's got to take ownership of that. Doesn't mean it was the wrong choice for y'all. Doesn't mean he's a bad guy. But he has to own, I made a choice that hurt my wife in her soul. And she chose to feel that hurt and stay with me anyway.

But I made a decision that was what caused my wife to hurt. He's got to own that. Otherwise, the deflection mechanism is gaslighting. Yeah. Right? That's the only way to keep at arm's length from knowing I hurt somebody is just to make them feel nuts all the time. Yeah. A lot of things.

Okay. Have you gotten good about being very clear i am getting better okay all right good it is taking practice um so yes um one one thing that came up somewhat recently is um the resentment thing and I had a hard time conveying that I was frustrated with the decision, um, without him recognizing how big of a decision it was and without it, him going straight to, well, you can divorce me or you can do these kinds of things. And I don't want to go there, but actually I read that Clarence Rios book and just came to him and said, I feel like I am going to resent you at some point if you don't work out this stuff.

And still to be determined how much that's sunk in or not. Yeah. So can I ask you this? The way you just phrased that I think is really important. I think I'm going to resent you if you don't do this stuff. And the way you said it's still to be determined me. He's not doing the stuff. And so the question I have for you is, does this ultimately end with you leaving? Or does this ultimately end with you leaving psychologically but staying physically?

That's what I'm afraid of. But it's a fear that you can control. Right. And so I'm scared of. But it's a fear that you can control. Right. And so I'm scared of a lion. You have the choice to say, I'm going to do the hard work and set this thing down, or I'm going to leave. It's the middle ground that's going to make you insane.

And quite frankly, you're going to poison a guy who just said, here's what I need. I need to not have kids. And I'm not letting him off the hook. If he was on the phone, by the way, we'd be having this opposite conversation here. Ultimately, this lands on you being able to say your needs out loud. Do not talk to me like that. I'm not accusing you of anything. If you feel like I'm accusing you, I need you to ask that question. I need you to go to the store for me instead of, are you going to the store?

Because if you're going, I need you to pick up some things. So that's kind of a passive, right? I want you to become very affirmative. And I love the word you just used, practice. This is probably something you've never done before, huh? It's been practice, yes. Good for you.

Good for you. Tell me a success you're having. One thing that we've worked out is, especially when we first got into marriage, we were very stereotypical roles and I was doing the cooking and that kind of stuff. And it just, we kept hitting a wall with it because he wouldn't like it or whatever. And so he has taken over the cooking and I do the dishes and it really works well.

It's a good partnership there. Yes. Outstanding. Excellent. Excellent. So y'all are practicing changing your behaviors, right? Not just thinking through things, but y'all are doing different things. Great. That's awesome. And it's okay if y'all can develop this relationship, I mean, this communication pattern, which I love.

In our house, let's say, and I'll just use my kids for example, they don't have permission in the house to say, mom, this dinner's gross because that's disrespectful and rude. They can say, I tried it and I don't care for it. That's factual. That's fair. They're allowed to say that. There's a kind way to say things. There's a difference when you make food all day and then somebody sits down and is like, this is gross

versus thank you so much for this dinner. So there's a difference when you make food all day and then somebody sits down and is like, this is gross. Versus, thank you so much for this dinner. Let's go back to the burgers. Let's do something, right? So there's a kind way to say things moving forward. And calling one another to a more dignified, respectful way of interacting with each other. I think it's just something you practice, right? Especially if you've never seen it before. Right.

Well, that's awesome. It sounds like you're on the right track. Hope so. I want you to circle back to the very beginning here. I want you to spend some time writing down what you're worth. Writing down very specifically, what are your needs? What do you need from him?

Write down very specifically how he broke your heart when it came to kids, how it hurts. And it may be that one day with you and a counselor and him, you write him a letter and say, I need you to feel this. And you read it. And in that letter, it talks about how much it hurts and how you had plans. You were going to go to graduations. You couldn't wait to stand by your daughter while she got married to some knucklehead, right? You had these pictures and these plans and they're not going to happen. And there's something about reading that out loud and then saying, but I'm staying anyway. And so now we're going to build something totally new. We got to, there is no picture in the frame. We got to build a whole new picture and live into it.

And then that's going to be your life's adventure moving forward. But you've got to stop in the grief section. You've got to sit there and grieve this thing. Got to grieve it. And then we're going to move on. And then, and then the more you hang on to it, that becomes an issue with you. If you choose to forgive, grieve, and start acting, start behaving, start moving in different directions, you can't circle back on it and be like, oh, well, because it's done. It's done. And then he becomes the victim there, right? So we're going to work together on this deal. Good for you for challenging him, for saying no more gaslighting in my house. Now I want you to go one step deeper and decide.

I've got value and I've got worth. And I am going to ask the people who are in relationship with me and my home to acknowledge that value. And I'm going to acknowledge theirs. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes.

And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families.. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in

my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's better help. H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Hey, before we go to the next call, this is very cool. The 988 suicide prevention hotline launches nationwide. Launches nationwide. Now, two quick things. Number one,

I think the idea that we have a culture that needs hotlines should be ringing an alarm bell for us. The data tells us that most people don't have somebody to call at 2 a.m. and say, I need help. It's our responsibility as adults. It's, I need help. It's our responsibility as adults. It's our responsibility as parents. It's our responsibility as community members to stop that trend directly in its tracks. The short story is we have to make friends. I've got to have people that I invite into my life

on a regular basis that i can do life with right but we don't have that right now number two if you are whining and complaining about the suicide prevention hotline are there going to be enough callers are there going to be enough people on the phone shut up stop there's so much complaining when somebody wants to do something different and new to create, to help people in their communities. And we shut down so much stuff because of regulations and red tape and we, yeah, but what about, I need a generation of people that will just start trying to help. And then we will figure it out as we go. And so I'm a huge fan of the 988 Suicide Prevention Hotline, mainly because most of these calls, either nobody makes a call or it goes to

911. And you've got people, those dispatchers trying to handle a bunch of different stuff. This is incredible. Here's what it says. People experiencing a mental health crisis can now call or text a three-digit number 988. Call or text. The new number connects the caller to a certified crisis center in the area where the call is placed. The hotline is made up of a network of 200 local crisis centers around the country.

The number is expected to be easier to remember in times of crisis than the 10-digit 800 number that the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline has currently. And it's going to help streamline mental health responses so people can get the urgent help they need much faster than 911. If you call 911, again, if that's the only call you make, make that call. But it goes from a dispatcher to police officers who then have to reach out to the mental health. There's some gaps there. This gets you right to a mental health professional, which is amazing. 988. And even cooler, if you remember a

few weeks ago, we had an extraordinary young man, a veteran on the show talking about his challenges with suicide. If you dial 988 and then press 1, 988 and then press 1, it's going to be a direct veterans crisis line. If you're concerned about a veteran, if you are a veteran and you're struggling with suicide, with hurting yourself, with purposelessness, you're scared, 988 and then press 1. Veterans can still contact any of the old VCL numbers, the Veterans Crisis Line numbers. All those things are still going to be there. But this is a express pass, 988 and press 1, right?

9881. So here's the deal. Y'all have heard me say this a million times. I'll say it a million times more. If you are going to hurt yourself, call somebody. If the thought enters your head, people would be better off without me around. You're wrong. I don't know you and I don't know your situation, but I know that you're wrong. If you know if somebody is's hurting call and they've just made it easier 988 and if you're lonely if you're disconnected, please Reach out and start the arduous awkward weird process of making friends, especially as an adult. It's hard. It's awful

It's weird. It's the worst and we got to we have to 988 suicide prevention hotline. Good for us. Let's make this thing work. And as there's bumps along the way and gaps in coverage, and we got to figure out these local crisis centers

and all that kind of stuff, let's be champions of how we can make this thing better, not whiners and complainers in the media. Cool deal. Awesome. All right, let's go to Lucas in Twin Falls. What's up, Lucas? Hey, Dr. John, How's it going, man?

Good, good, good, good. What's up? Hey, yeah, so I'm calling you because I'd like to get some advice from you on how I can help my parents get out of a very unhealthy living situation with my older brother, who's 31 years old. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I'll start off, you know, this has been something that essentially transpired for the past 10 to 12 years. It all started when my older brother got into pretty bad legal trouble when I was in high school. He's been in and out of jail, in and out of treatment centers, and he's still living at home. And so essentially, I've been struggling with seeing my parents letting him stay at home without having any boundaries while basically being a basically being, um, uh, a very bipolar addict and,

uh, things are just super, super volatile, uh, with them there. I know. Um, why has this come up now? Does something happen? Have you suddenly just worried about them or have you tried things? Why, why, why now? Yeah. Yeah. So,, I feel like my relationship with my parents is potentially on a thin line just because I've just been super frustrated with them just allowing my brother to live at home and basically ruin their life. You know, my parents are both in their 60s right now. And, you know, I feel like at this point, you can only give someone so many chances.

Just to give you some more details, my brother, he is sick. He is a struggling addict. He's done pretty much everything under the sun. He's also clinically bipolar. So just when you mix narcotics along with bipolar disorder, it's not a good thing. And in my recent conversations with my family, I feel like my parents are honestly just scared of retaliation from him if they try to kick him out. It's actually not that. I'm going to be super truthful with you, okay?

Okay. Your parents are getting something out of this relationship. Whether toxic, whether sideways, whether what? This is feeding something for them. Whether they feel some kind of guilt over the bipolar stuff or if there's stuff from y'all's childhood that they are trying to quote unquote make up for, live into, or they're blaming themselves, whatever it is.

They are getting something out of this relationship. And maybe it is safety and security because they're scared he's going to go do something if they kick it. All that to say is going to be hard for you to hear. None of this is your business. What your business is, is what you are willing to tolerate relationally with the people that you love. And this is going to are willing to tolerate relationally with the people that you love. And this is gonna be hard to hear,

but you have been clear with your parents that your brother needs professional help and that he's probably draining them financially. He's probably has seasons when he's not safe to be around and they are choosing him over your boundaries. And that leaves you to decide what you are gonna do inside of your boundaries. And that leaves you to decide what you are going to do inside of your boundaries. So the hard answer here is there's really nothing you can do for them. You can love them. You can be kind. You can have one more hard final with gusto conversation.

But at the end of the day, there are 60-something-year-old adults who are making a choice on a daily basis to live a life for some reason. And the question is not, how can I get these 60-something-year-olds to change? You're not going to.

You have to figure out how to be well inside of this context. And for most of us, well in this side of context is I'm going to go make other choices so I can be well. Y'all are making your choices. Behavior is a language. They're choosing him over themselves and over you. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.

No, it does. It's a harsh way to say it, I know. I know. Yeah. And here's the deal. say it, I know. I know. Yeah. And here's the deal. They might be helping him with a roof. That's a huge help for an addict. That's a huge help for someone struggling with mental health challenges.

But another huge help is high accountability and responsibility. Right. Well, and see, that's, so first of all, I totally agree with what you said, and I do appreciate it. But that's the piece that's missing is that there's zero accountability there. And, you know, from what I've seen over the years and what I've talked about with, you know, friends and outside Valley members is that they think they're helping him, but it's really just enabling, right? Lucas, Lucas, Lucas. Yeah. You got to walk away.

You have diagnosed your brother. You've diagnosed the problem with your parents. You've diagnosed the relational issues. And what you're doing is you're churning energy on a situation you cannot control. You probably have a friend who all they do all day long is watch political news. And they come up with these crazy theories about trade deficits and oil prices

and it's because of this. Literally, they can control nothing. They're wasting their day. They're absolutely wasting their day. You can look at the gas pump and say, man, that's terrible. I'm going to have to adjust my budget. I'm going to have to adjust what I buy at the store. I'm going to have to adjust how much I drive or carpooling. That will help. But me just sitting on YouTube all day trying to come up with solutions for problems. See what I'm saying? It becomes this futile spinning and spinning and spinning. And that's where you are, man.

And what it's doing at the end of the day, it's an affirmative choice to take joy and beauty and peace out of your life, trying to solve another problem. You're going to have to grieve it. It's going to suck. Right? But you haven't dropped your shoulders and just said, this is the way this is.

This is how my parents are choosing to live. And when you do that, it's going to hurt, man. Because you're going to miss your parents. You're going to miss your brother. And then you're going to have to do the hard work of seeking to not spin your wheels trying to solve a problem you can't solve. But in seeking joy and finding peace and finding laughter and finding community and finding friends to meet some of those needs that you hoped that your parents would meet, but they're not meeting them because they're too hung up on their other situation. Yeah. Okay. So then, so then Beth said, what's your advice on, um,

setting boundaries within the relationship with my parents and then, you know, deciding whether or not I want to go, go back home for the holidays and all that. Great question. As you know, you know, when, when you have, um, yes, when you have a private little son in your family, you know, that tends to be the topic of most of the conversations is already hard enough for people, but when you have something like this,

there's just that other looming elephant in the room. So what's your advice on setting boundaries for myself, for my own mental sanity and mental health? By the way, I actually started going to therapy for many reasons last year, but this was actually one of them was just kind of coping with this whole thing. Good for you for taking affirmative steps. Ultimately, it's this. You deciding, forget the consequences, decide what you're worth and decide your value and decide what

you'll tolerate and what you won't. And it may come down to a conversation like this. I love you, mom and dad, with all my heart. I can no longer be a participant in a relationship where I'm watching somebody hurt my parents over and over and over. And I will not talk about my brother anymore. And so if he's going to be there during Thanksgiving or Christmas, I'm going to choose to not go. And so you're not doing ultimatums. You're not threatening.

You are making grown-up choices with your grown-up finances and your grown-up choice-making abilities. They can then make grown-up choices on their own on whether we're going to have to ask brother to leave because we want Lucas to come home, or we're going to talk bad about Lucas and make him feel guilty and make him feel really bad for not caring about his brother and for leaving his parents high and dry. That's their grown-up choices to make, how they respond. You cannot control that.

And the more you hem in your needs to try to make somebody else feel less awkward, the further from an authentic core you get, the crazier you'll feel. And most of us feel crazy by getting pissed off. We get angry. Yeah.

Right? And then we get angry. We start trying to blame and solve and that's a whole cat. Look at our culture. That's us, right? Yeah. Yeah, no, no.

I mean, you're right. And yeah. Or telling your brother, I will not come to mom and dad's house if you're still there. It's time for you to check into a rehab facility and it's time for you to get clean. And if you're not, great. I am going to choose to not be a part of this dysfunction.

And when you hang up the phone, you may have, dude, you may have a hole in your gut. You may weep for hours. And the follow-up phone calls and texts and letters may be caustic and mean. You may have to get to where you block your parents from texting you because they're going to send these long talk-to-text texts, right, that are so dramatic and so long. I cannot control the response of other adults to my needs. And you might have to do the really hard work of finding a new gang to do Thanksgiving with

or a new gang to do Christmas with. And it might be the first peaceful holiday season you've had in a long, long time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can say, so I've, I've been married for a little over three years. And, uh, once I got married, it's basically been holidays. I've been with, uh, with my, um, and it's basically been holidays. I've been with my in-laws and it's been a lot better. There you go. You have a new picture, right? You have another picture. Oh, family can look like this. I thought it just looked like that. This could look way different, right? And that's fantastic. That's wonderful. I want you to mourn this. I'm trying to think. think somewhere inside there is a picture you had

of when you have your first little one and or of the how your parents were going to welcome in your wife and we're going to hug hug hug hug hug and it's going to be this big dramatic thing and they were going to be best friends and your brother was going to clean up. And at some point you have to have, you have to grieve it. You have to have a funeral, if you will, for that picture. It's not going to happen or at least not going to happen anytime soon. Yeah. And once we do that, then we can begin to deal with reality, which is probably not going to do Christmas and holidays there. It's not a safe place for me and my family. And that's awful. I hate that.

Maybe one day, two years later, five years later, six years later, mom and dad make some pretty dramatic changes. Brother gets clean. They decide to hold him accountable. They decide, well, we're going to have nothing, right? This might mean you're out of the will or you're not going to get inheritance. Great, man? These are about you.

This is about you being well and living a peaceful, joyful life. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Ultimately it's about reclaiming control that you've outsourced to them because you're waiting for them to make the quote unquote right choices and decisions so that you can feel better. And that's never going to work that way.

Yeah, no, no, man, you're right. I, I hate that, man. I feel like I'm like, like, I feel like it's like, Hey, here's a balloon. I'm like, let me pop it. Ha ha ha. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I mean, I mean, shoot, I was the one, uh, uh, who called. So, you know, so, you know, you called me, bro, man. No, here's what I really want. I want you to have a holiday season where you laugh really hard from your guts and you get a few days off of work and you sleep like you're in a black hole you wake up refreshed and you have a breakfast that's a little bit bigger than you should probably have and y'all go for a walk when it's freezing cold outside

and you're miserable but it's kind of. Like not worrying about mom and dad's finances and their choices. And what is there some other way I can say it, or there's some other way I can manipulate it or something I can do for set that stuff down, man. Yep. Set it down. See what I'm saying?

I hate this for you, dude. I really do. I wish your brother would have some clarity and I wish some people in his life that were really close to him

would hold him to some high accountability and help him get the care that he needs instead of just giving him a free pass because it's not helping him right

you know that we're just not there yet but if your parents are ever not safe of course call the police you can get involved that way just not there yet. But if your parents are ever not safe, of course, call the police. You can get involved that way. You can write them the final letter. You can just be pretty open about your boundaries or you can just let it kind of fade, right? You can just let it kind of fade

and not call as much or not text and just begin to work on the things you can control, which are the relationships that people who are willing to reciprocate, right? And they may reach out in a month or two months or three months and say, hey, I haven't heard from you in a while. And you can say, hey, it's great to hear from you and go about your day and just slowly let things fade. And if they ever call you on it, you can say, can say yeah I made some pretty conscious choices to not watch you guys get hurt anymore and we're not watched brother get get hurt anymore because he's not getting the care that he needs and I just chose to step out and control what I could control and man hard hard road ahead of you and it's also a right road. And my hope is there's some reconciliation in your family, my brother. I hope so. We'll be right back. It seems like everybody's talking

about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change, and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new home buyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage.

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slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, we're back. Let's go to Becky in H-Town. What's up, Becky? Hey, Dr. dr john thank you so much for taking my call of course go strohs what's up yes hey i was just calling um i'm trying to figure out how i can get my son to respect me as well as control his outburst that he has respect my authority so tell me what's going on well um so me and his dad are divorced. Okay. So I know that takes a toll. His dad was very much verbally and emotionally abusive towards me in front of him.

Okay. At the time we lived together, my son would step up in front of me, which was shocking because he was, you know, little. And he would be like, you can't talk to mom like that. And then now I find him now that we're separated. He talks to me similar to the way his dad used to talk to me. That's right. That's right. So, um, you said, I know it takes a toll. I want you to think of this as every single thing he knows burned to the ground. Okay. This isn't taking a toll. This is caustic. Okay. This isn't taking a toll. This is caustic, okay? This is the insides of your little boy are on the outside now. It's that big of a trauma, okay? And here's a devastating thing about what you just described, abusive relationships.

It's especially little kids, but it stays with us until we're adults, is he knows that part of you is part of him and that part of dad is part of him. And so if he identifies dad as bad or wrong or evil, that means part of him is bad or wrong or evil. And psychologically speaking, it's easier and makes more sense, especially in a child or a traumatized adult, to identify and to begin to reproduce the same behaviors than it is to distance yourself and say, that's evil and wrong. And that means part of me is dark and I got to do some healing inside.

You see what I'm saying? It's very hard, especially for an eight-year-old. So the easy way to say it is he's got a picture of how to treat women. He's got a picture. And I'm going to follow that picture. But he doesn't do it to every woman. No, because your husband probably didn't do that to every woman.

It's not a gender thing. It's a you thing. Okay. It's a home thing. It's the way you treat you. Because he got a pretty clear model of that. Here's a hard question. Can I ask you a couple of hard questions?

Sure, go ahead. Okay, not being mean, I just want to get a full picture. Are you respectable? Yeah. Tell me about that. You were like, yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm a good person and I stick true to my morals and my values, I feel like. Okay, that's one piece.

And respectable has a moral and a character thing to it, okay? Let's pull that apart a little bit. And here's what I mean by respectable. Do you have real firm boundaries? Are you good with schedules? And this is when bedtime is, and you will not speak to me this way. And if you've chosen to talk to me this way,

then you're choosing to leave the room, right? Are there some consequences too? And that's what I mean by respectable. Think of respectable as I'm anchored into steel, into concrete, right? I'm trying. Okay. So here's that little,

does he live with you full time? Yeah, he does his dad every other weekend. So right now, unfortunately, he's with his dad the whole month. So I know I have a lot of work to do when he comes back. Yeah. So is he going to stay with you? He lives with you? He lives with me. Okay. Yeah. And we just moved

out of, so he had a whole new living situation now too. So it's been a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Hmm. So he had a whole new living situation now too. So it's been a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, because we lived with dad and then we moved in with my parents because I had to leave that household. And I left and took him with me and then separated him from his siblings that he has with, because his dad has other kids. And then now we've moved to our own home buyers, you know,

our own home. So his world is, doesn't exist. Upside down for the last like two years. Yeah. Okay. Here's where we're going to start. Okay.

There's going to be, and this is going to be you're playing a 20-year game now. You're not playing a week-by-week game anymore. Okay? Playing a 20-year game. That means you're going to have hell on earth for weeks and sometimes months on end.

Okay? Don't fight that. Know that it's coming. Because you got a little boy that thinks he did something that sent dad away forever. He thinks he did something that took brothers and sisters away. He thinks if I had just done something a little bit different, mom, dad wouldn't have been so mean to mom. Wait a minute. Dad was mean to mom. Probably was mom's fault, right?

So he's going to have to be processing on this eight-year-old little brain. Right? So that's where we're going to start. We're playing a long game here. Here's number two. Every son knows, not everyone, but most sons know their moms love them. I want you to work really hard to let your son know that you like him. Okay. Okay. And that's hard, especially when he reminds you of your husband, when he talks to you in ways that your husband, you're going to have a lot of

deprogramming to do after a month, right? When he complains about things and you know, he's kind of right. You're like, I had lots of brothers and sisters and friends and we did a bunch of stuff and you make me do homework. You're the worst. I can see that. I mean, that makes sense to me. He had to lose everything just so you could be safe. Like that math doesn't work in an eight-year-old's head.

Okay? And he's going to need you to be patient and to love him, obviously, but to like him. And here's how we like our kids. We set up situations where we can be successful. So we're going to have boundaries. We're going to have firm, firm boundaries. We're going to have strong anchor points, and we're going to have some silly moments.

We're going to be unreasonable sometimes. Hey, you just want to have ice cream for dinner? Yep. We're going to have some silly moments. We're going to be unreasonable sometimes. Hey, you just want to have ice cream for dinner? Yep. We're going to do silly things. I'm going to come pick you up randomly once every few months from school, and we're going to go to the arcade. Just blow it. I'm going to go to the movie.

And I'm going to do these things because I like you. I value spending time with you. You aren't the reason I left dad. He was. Right? And this is a lifelong journey he's going to have to undergo. And then here's a couple other things. He's going to need

some real direct counseling. He's in play therapy. Good. Good, good, good. My guess is he's going to have rage that would make people's teeth fall out is he's going to have rage that would make people's teeth fall out. They're going to throw all kind of diagnostic labels at you.

They said he's ADHD. Of course they will. And it's going to move to oppositional defiant disorder in the next year or two. You'll get all these diagnosed labels. Here's the way I want you to hear those things. It's a little boy's body trying to respond to his world exploding. Okay?

So all those labels and – your son's not broken. I know. Right? He's not dysfunctional. He is trying to make sense of something that it cannot be made sense out of. And he needs a mom who likes him. Here's the third thing I want you to do. And you may have heard me talk about this on the show a lot. When he gets back this summer, I want you to go

to Michael's or to like, what do you call it? One of those home goods stores where you can buy a big canvas, like a three foot by five foot one, a big one. And I want you to do a big painting project together where you're going to paint a thing on it. And then I want you to take him to a real nice dinner, like make him dress up. Okay. And we're going to talk about who we are, family values. And when you're in this house, because he's going to toggle back and forth between homes. Yeah.

It's going to be impossible for his little eight-year-old, nine-year-old, 10-year-old brain to toggle that, but that's what the courts do. Okay. So when he's in your house, this is who we are. And let him talk into that let him express. Yeah. Yeah And we are and fill in the blank and some of those things in my house are we talk to each other with dignity and respect We're kind to one another even when we're upset

We're allowed to be angry, but we're not going to be disrespectful in our anger Um, we pick up after ourselves. We laugh a lot. We fill in the blank, right? We go on adventures. We say yes. We invite people over. These are some of the Deloney family values. They're going to be different for you guys, but here's why they're important. For the next 15 years, they're a touchstone for you. What I mean by that, when he has an outburst and he blows up at you, here's what he's trying to find out.

Are you going to leave too? Is there something I can do that you'll leave like dad did? And he needs to know, absolutely not, but he can make some choices to where he decides to leave, and he'll take ownership of that real fast. Here's what I mean.

Let's say he comes in, and you say, hey, pick up your backpack, and he goes, I don't pick up my backpack for stupid women. Let's say he says something like that. You can say, get out. Get out. What he knows by that is there is a line with which mom will weaponize our relationship and kick me out of her presence. The other way to do that is to sit down and look him in the eye and say, you've chosen to violate one of our family values. Because in this house, we talk to each other with dignity and respect

and you chose to be disrespectful, which means you chose to leave my presence. You chose to leave our family table. And I want you here. I like you better than being here alone. And it breaks my heart that you, I'm choosing to have my heart broken that you chose to leave for 10 minutes.

Please go do your 10 minutes and choose to come back in here because I want you here. You see the difference? And he is going to take quick ownership of, I get to choose when I'm in a relationship with mom and I want to be with mom because she likes me. This is all.

He thinks everything's like my fault. Like if he gets in trouble, it's my fault that he's in trouble. Absolutely. And then he goes into this, well, maybe I should just die or maybe I should kill myself or he'll throw things or he'll hit his head or whatever. And this is an eight-year-old boy who is trying to make sense of chaos, right? And he's using every word he knows every grenade he knows it's um it's it's the last soldier in a bunker and everyone around him is gone and he's gonna throw every grenade he's got

that's all he's got last last ditch effort he's eight right and here's what we're teaching him we're teaching him that he can choose because right now he's felt completely powerless to everybody leaving in his life. And yes, he's going to blame you. When he asked dad, how come you don't live with us? Well, because your mom walked out on me. That's how the story, right? He's eight.

He's going to believe his dad. He looks like his dad. He wants to be like his dad. Yeah, he does look like his dad. That's right. So he sees a reflection of himself and he didn't not like himself. So it must be your fault, right?

So that's what I'm saying. You're playing a 20-year game. The goal isn't to get him to like you. The goal is to get him to understand that he's likable, right? And that means he's going to say eight-year-old stuff. Also, if he threatens suicide, you call in everybody every time on that, right? You know that. I don't mess around with that.

But when it comes to this is your fault, you can say, I'm so sorry that you're hurting. It's not my fault, but I respect your right to be upset. I'm sad that this is the way this is too. Let him know that you're a person and that you didn't draw this one up either, right? And it's gonna be a long game. And he'll say things over the years that will break your heart.

You got to have people in your life that you can talk to as well. Is that fair? Mm-hmm. Congratulations. I mean, I'm proud of you for looking in the mirror and saying he deserves more than you deserve more than to be abused. Thank you. I know that that is a grenade that blew up everything

in your life too. I'm sorry that happened. Me too. It's real hard right now and you feel like you're losing, you've lost almost everything and that you're losing your son. I think you did the right thing. I'm proud of you.

Thank you. You have a good job? You working? I do. Yep. Okay. Money's okay? You're putting it together? Yeah, I'm fine. Good, good, good, good. I'll walk with you as long as, until I get fired and this podcast goes away. But will you call me back if you ever need anything? Sure. Okay. I'll walk alongside you the whole way. Work real closely with school counselors.

Work real closely with school. At some point, again, this is pie in the sky. I'm just dreaming here. At some point, potentially, possibly, you and your ex are able to, he's able to not be a child, not talk bad about you. Not because he's not mad and not because he's not pouting or whatever, but because he wants his son to grow up and be whole and be well. And I hear that more and more these days that people are wise enough and smart enough and adult enough to understand that, yes, our marriage was a wreck.

We blew it up. It didn't work. I cheated. I got mad. I was abusive, whatever. But I'm going to be respectful to you moving forward as we co-parent our kid because our kid deserves more than repeating this nonsense. That's my hope. That may be maybe in this situation never gonna happen,

but I'm gonna hold out hope for that. Thanks for calling, Becky. And holler back if you ever need anything. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out

or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, in honor of what Kelly puts in her coffee every morning, a band from the 90s, Everclear. And the song is called Father of Mine, and it goes like this.

Father of mine, tell me, where have you been? You know, I just closed my eyes, my whole world disappeared. Father of mine, take me back to the day when I You know, I just closed my eyes. My whole world disappeared. Father of mine, take me back to the day when I was still your golden boy, back before you went away. I remember the blue skies, walking the block. I loved it when you held me high. I loved to hear you talk.

You would take me to the movie. You'd take me to the beach. Take me to a place inside that's so hard to reach. Tell me, where did you go? You didn't seem to know, father of mine. When you look back at your wasted life and you don't see me, I was 10 years old doing all I could. I never understood you then, and I guess I never will.

You gave me a name, and then you walked away. Dads, show up. We'll see you soon.