The Dr. John Delony Show - Is My Relationship With My Ex-Husband Unhealthy?

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode I've never been good at finding community; how do I do that? I'm worried my relationship with my ex-boyfriend is unhealthy How do I share my difficult past with my new boyfriend? Lyrics of the Day: "Vindicated" - Dashboard Confessional   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp dreamcloudsleep.com/delony Conversation Starters Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: friendship, divorce, relationships, marriage, parenting, kids, infidelity, boundaries, trauma/PTSD   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to a young man who wants to develop community in his new town. We talk to a woman who wonders if her relationship with her ex is good for their son. And we talk to an incredible young woman who is bravely clawing her way back to a new relationship. Stay tuned. What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. A show about you, your mental health, your

relationships, your marriages, your parenting. Idiots that you work with, your friends. I don't know. Whatever's going on. Zach, Sarah, it's good to see everybody. Kelly, Jameth, one of the hiding engineers back there. It's good to see everybody. We're back in town today after a long, wild weekend and weekend. I guess it's been a whole week. I don't even know what day it is anymore, but glad to have everybody. Hey, James Kelly,

I have a quick question. So on the internets last night, there was another study and they got a bunch of these. And I mean, I think they're largely accurate about the amount of when you have a two, two people who are full time and full time employed, that often the woman the woman continues to take the lion's share of the work at home. And so if you ask a guy how much he's helping at home, he'll say like, it's 50-50. And then they'll follow him around and actually it's like 90-10 that she takes on the lion's share of the work at home. So basically she works two full-time jobs. And I had this thought last night for the first time. And so I'm going to go ahead and get us canceled today. As a show, I want to tell everybody it's been fun,

but I want to get y'all's opinion on this. So how much of the work that goes on domestically, and I can see, Kelly, the lasers are starting to form as like an old robot. How much of the work domestically is work that is because things have to be a certain way or they have to look a certain way at a regular time? So for instance, my wife and I have had discussions about, can you help her on the kitchen? And I would say, absolutely.

But a lot of that has to do with the fact that the kitchen has to be done every single day in a certain way and so when there's x amount of work done in the house if we were to measure it ought to be 90 10 i'm thinking we do the dishes a lot seven times a week versus let's do them three times a week and then it would be more 50 does that make Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And I'm very guilty of that. So, and there's a lot of things my husband does that we've kind of over the years have worked it out that there's some things I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to do that because I want it done my way.

Yes. Or if we vacuumed once a month, I mean, it'd be kind of gross, but it would get done versus what we need to vacuum every week or every other day. And then yes. And then it looks out of whack. Yeah. I mean, if I think if somebody looked at it at our house, it would look out of whack, but I know it's not because there's other things he does. Like he tends to go to more doctor's appointments and things like that with our daughter because his schedule is

more flexible. Whereas I do more things around the house because if he doesn't, I'm just going to redo them or I'm going to get ticked about it. So I'm just going to do it. Because I know that's my thing. That's not on him. That's on me. I wonder, I don't know if that study exists

and I don't know that anybody would have the guts to do that. James, what do you think? I see you hiding back there. I'm sorry. I was working on my resume. My King Coleman resume builder. I could see it.

Is that the same in your house? I think there's some merit to that. Not necessarily at my house. I feel like we both do things around the house. A typical man would think so. Yeah, sure. Okay. No, I don't think so, but I think your point is valid,

and I think we should commission that study. I'm going to stay as far away from that study. It just occurred to me last night, because when I lived with a house full of moronic guys back in college, and right after college, I wasn't like, it was barely livable, but things got done, right? Somebody eventually has to do the dishes. We play a poker game.

Somebody loses, or we throw them all out and get new ones or whatever, however that worked. Somebody finally has to mow the yard when the neighborhood association calls or something. I just, I don't know. I'm wondering. So here's what I want you to do, everybody listening to the show. If you're a man listening to the show, I want you to go home and be like, we're 50-50, right? I want you just to lead with that. And if you're a woman watching this show, I want you to go home and, I don't know, hit your husband or something like that.

Does that sound good? Don't hit. No hit. I've gotten in trouble for that. Don't hit anybody. Go home and, I don't know. I don't know how to get out of this now. Now we're stuck. Write poems. Write poems. All right, let's go to Alan in Austin. I don't know how to get out of this now. Now we're stuck. Write poems. Write poems. Let's go to Alan in Austin. Is that a good way to get out of here? Let's go to Alan. What's up, Alan? How are you? You know, all things considered, doing pretty well. How about you, Dr. Damani?

We are having a party. What's up, man? How are you? Doing all right. The big question that I had for you today is you've mentioned it a lot on your show about the importance of community. Yes. And how important that is for mental well-being, but also especially when you're going through trials and tribulations. So my question is, how do you go about building a community from scratch when you've never actually done that before?

Oh, that's a good question. So are you moving somewhere or are you, how old are you? I'm in my late 20s. Late 20s? And yeah, I'm actually heading out to a new city here in a few months. Okay. And so walk me through the communities you've had in the past or lack of. You've just never had a gang?

Not really. I mean, I've had individual friendships that have been very supportive and very close, but I feel like when you have a friendship that's just too much one-on-one, you run the risk of there becoming an imbalance. What does that mean? An imbalance where the focus shifts too much either on your needs or their needs. And historically, I've not been very good at striking a balance. And therefore, I've been inclined to either become resentful and just drop friendships or vice versa. So do you, and we'll get to the community questions, so this is going to help me get to build us a bridge to get there.

Are you somebody that is a lot for other people, or do you end up getting so absorbed in other people's world that you wake up one day and you're so buried by their stuff that you can't move? I totally become enmeshed. Okay. I'm a lot. And I know that in the past, people, and by the past, I mean like last week or so, I'm a lot. I'm excitable and I always have new ideas I want to talk about and I like debating and I like hollering and I'm loud and, and, and. So I'm a lot. You like to get in other people's lives and then all of a sudden you find yourself up

underwater. Yeah, 100%. That's what happened with my last relationship. Okay. Why do you do that? By the way, if we were in a true counseling session, you're not ever allowed to ask that question. But since we're on the radio, we'll just break that rule. Why do you enmesh yourself in the lives of other people?

What about your life is lacking to where you want to live through other people until you just can't i guess a lot of it is related to kind of my own sense of value okay and i i say that having done a lot of reflection on my past uh like this week i wrote close to 16,000 words going through kind of the whole gamut of it all. Yeah. And that was kind of a tendency that popped up was my needs like in childhood didn't really matter. And so as a consequence of that, you know, if I find someone that seems to value me for some reason, then it becomes easy to kind of cling on to them because at least for a time, you know, you're valuable to someone. So you almost become a vampire until you just completely drain them of everything and then nobody's got anything left. I mean, I say that, but at the same time, I definitely give a lot to try to maintain the relationship until I give to the point where I realize no matter how much I can provide, that ultimately my needs are not woven into the fabric of the relationship. Gotcha. And therefore, it comes kind of that breaking point, right? Of

deciding, should I stay or should I go? So are your needs worth being met? My inclination is to say yes. I'll ask that again. Are your needs worth being met? Yeah. Yeah. Fully. Full stop. Exclamation point at the end. Unless you're an attorney, then there's just a period at the end. Yeah, for sure. So one of the challenges I run into by talking about how important it is for people to have relationships and have community, to have a gang, to have intimate connection with one person, to have peripheral friends that you can show up with and nod to and split meals with and things like that, is I fall into a trap. And this is me. I fall into a trap of saying, here's the benefit of that. The benefit is you live longer. The benefit is your mental health is better. Your physical health is me. I fall into a trap of saying here's the benefit of that. The benefit is you live longer.

The benefit is your mental health is better. Your physical health is better and on and on and on. The problem I run into is it tends to put an ROI on it. So people start looking for other people because it's going to meet their needs, not just to be with people. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's making to meet their needs, not just to be with people. Does that make sense? So yeah, it's making it more transactional. There you go. And so my fear is that there's, we're in what I think is a glitch in the matrix for all of human history with the current loneliness epidemic. And this is way before COVID happened, but we are so isolated and our brains have no, it is just ringing every bell in our bodies, whether it's the anxiety bell,

the depression bell, the, you name it, it is chaos. And we're passing this on to our kids and we're having it passed on by our parents, this loneliness, loneliness, and our brains are designed for that. The challenge is when I tell millions of people, hey, you need to have some relationships because of these reasons, then it's kind of like, it's like networking or it is, I need to get my oil changed so my car won't stop.

And so I think that the challenge for you is twofold. Number one, you're going to have to let go of the lie that was told to you either affirmatively or just through neglect. Nobody told you anything that your needs aren't worth being met. They absolutely are. So that's lie number one. Or that's thing number one. You're going to have to accept it. And what this means is you've been carrying stuff around for almost 30 years. You're going to have to decide my needs are worth being met. And the challenge for you, man, is it just kind of feels easier to go through life like not speaking up for yourself, not being disappointed in other people, not being disappointing yourself.

It's easier just to kind of float around. And so when you wrote in those 16 pages, what are some needs you came up with that you need? You know, it's funny. I talked about how all of my needs either weren't met, but I didn't necessarily get to the point of identifying what I actually need. I think if I'm just going off the top of my head, I would say acceptance in terms. I tend to be a smart aleck, as my grandma used to call me. You should probably apply for a job here. You'd be great on our team.

Yes. I'm keeping an eye on it, maybe. But, like, being accepted for my ridiculous commentary on just random things. Again. Yes, you should probably join our team, yeah. I do that for a living, by the way, Alan. I make a living with ridiculous commentary, so there's a place for you.

Yes. Well, I'd say you're living the dream then. Yes, until today's show, which this probably is going to put an end to us. Here's the thing. I want you to write down and be really explicit about what your needs are. And what you're going to find is it's going to distill down into two things.

That you are fully known. That you can be honest about the things that make you laugh. The things that make you upset in the world. The things that make you feel wanted. The things that make you upset in the world, the things that make you feel wanted, the things that make you feel excluded. And all those things are going to matter and you're going to want to have all those things and still be loved, still be known.

My guys, my buddies in my life who I've been with for years, decades and decades and decades will roll their eyes. That's Deloney. That's Deloney. Oh, look, Deloney fell asleep again in the middle of the fight. Deloney fell asleep again in the middle of dinner. Deloney fill in the blank, right? They know me and then they still love me. That's the big one, number one. Number two is you're going to have to risk. And I get the sense just your cadence, you don't like risk.

Are you risk avoidant? I tend to be. I work in finances. There you go. There you go. In that camp, I'm all about mitigation. Yes. And so here's the thing.

As you go to a new community, here's a couple of things I will recommend for you. So I want to back out. Number one, I want you to be super clear about your needs. What do you need as you navigate the world? I need people to hold me accountable. I need people who will laugh, love, love, love laughing. I love people who will be graceful on the margins with me because I tend to be a lot. But I also hit the guardrail sometimes,

or I'm 10 minutes late here, five minutes late there, or whatever the thing is. So know what your needs are and then decide, decide I'm going to start speaking up on them. I'm going to start being heard. I'm not going to go through my life keeping secrets from everybody around me. And that's going to keep you from drowning people because you hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. And that person can't tread water for two people. And then the second thing is you're going to have to risk. So here's a couple of things as you head out. Number one, you're going to have to go first. You're going to have to show up in a new place, whether that is a, look for shared experiences, whether that's joining a team, whether that is a church community,

work softball, jujitsu class, I'll even say a CrossFit class. What do you go? You go to yellow theories. That was a funny joke. Orange theory. Any kind of color theory that you would like to go to. Play guitar. Whatever it is. Find a group that you can have shared experiences with, and then you got to go first. Just show up. It might make your heart rate go up. It might be uncomfortable. It might be weird. You may find out early in that you don't like it. They don't like you. And you're going to have to grieve it, accept it, wash off the rejection and go again and go again and go again. But it's going to be a matter of putting yourself out there. And when you know yourself, when you're not trying to silence your needs so that somebody else will have you in their presence. And then over time, your needs start to come out. And that person's like, that's not what I signed up for. And then there's that rejection loop. If you can know, I'm Alan from Austin and Alan and wherever you're going to end up,

St. Louis or wherever you're going. And I like these things. I think this is funny. I think this is stupid. I think these people are hilarious. I think these people aren't that funny. When you can put your, throw your shoulders back, put your head up high and say, I'm just Alan. This is, this is the things I like and the things I don't like. And you can navigate into any space. Of course, you're going to be fearful of rejection. Rejection is awful. I hate it. Everybody hates it. Nobody likes rejection, but you can go into those groups and say, Hey man, what's up? This is me. Let's do

jujitsu or let's play on the softball team. I'm terrible at softball, by the way. I'll strike out 100% of the time, but I will throw my glove at you or I will make jokes out in the outfield while I'm missing the ball, whatever the thing is. And then if they have you back, great. And if they don't, you can grieve it and go, man, that sucks. I really liked hanging out with that group of people. And then you can go on to the next. Thing is knowing your needs matter. They do. Knowing what they actually are and then going first. No rejections coming.

And go share some experiences with people, man. Thank you so much for calling. We'll be right back on the John Deloney Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often

than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties,

not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy, and you can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney.

All right, we're back. Let's go to Jessica in Denver. Hey, Jessica, what's happening? Hi, Dr. Deloney. How are you? Good, how are you? Just couldn't be having more fun. Okay, so I have a question for you. couldn't be having more fun. Okay.

So I have a question for you. Anytime somebody starts a call with, okay. It's usually a good one. Yeah. I, um, so here it is. Um,

my son's father and I, um, decided to separate when he was six months, when my son was six months. Okay. And now he's 10 months. So at that he was six months, when my son was six months. Okay. And now he's 10 months. So at that point, at six months, he moved out of the house. And we find ourselves spending a lot of time together.

Are y'all divorced? No, we weren't married. We had been together for about six years, lived together for four of those years. So we never were legally married to just cohabiting. And we decided- Why'd y'all break up? So there's a number of things, but I think the three events that just I couldn't come back from were, um, the biggest one was I got really bad postpartum depression afterwards and I just didn't feel supported from, um, by him. Um, one of the times he actually, um, made a comment once that I was weak, like a weak mom. And that really like hit me so hard. I remember just like feeling like a punch to my stomach. Cause I was weak, like a weak mom. And that really like hit me so hard. I remember just like

feeling like a punch to my stomach. Cause I was feeling weak and I was feeling like, um, like I was in a good mom. So when he told me those words, I like went into my closet and just cried and he seen me crying and he never, like, he didn't say anything to me. He actually said something about, um, like, stop crying. I'm not going to feel bad for you because you're crying. And I think that was a turning point for me because I, um, had thoughts of not being worthy, like not being like my son deserves a better mom. So the next day after that happened, I, I realized that those thoughts just were so extreme. Like I had never, um, had thoughts like that. So I reached out to a therapist and, um, yeah, so I started seeing a therapist and the other event that was pretty significant was in December of 2019, he was unfaithful.

He was going to get some like massages at a, like a massage parlor place. And I found out about those and, um, so just, there was no trust either. Like I got a massage yesterday. Are you talking about like, yeah, these were like happy ending massages. Okay. They were sexualized massages. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And, um, he, like he told me about him and so there was no trust. And then I think the last, um, the last thing that I can say that really just like, we tried everything to be together, um, was couples therapy. So I have started my own individual therapy. He started his individual therapy and we seeked out a really good couples therapist and we had been going to some sessions

and in one of those sessions, he decided to just walk out. Like he was so upset and he walked out of the session and I thought he went to go get a breather. But when I looked, we were at home doing on a video call, but when I looked out the window, he had actually left. And to me, that was so rejecting. So after that, I told him, I'm still willing to do couples therapy, but you have to schedule the next one. And he just never did. So we were both just full of resentment and couldn't stand each other anymore. Like he had been sleeping on the couch for over a month and a half before we separated. Okay. And we talked and both came to the decision that it just was not working for us, that we could not be living together anymore.

Yeah. So you're here now. You got a 10-month-old. Yeah. And I'm going to make a guess. Okay. I'm going to make a guess. Y'all aren't broken up, but you're broken up.

No, we really are. We've actually discussed not getting back together anymore. We both decided that. And so recently he invited us to California with him and I really want to go. I was excited and I mentioned it to my mom and she actually said, she made a comment about how I am setting a bad example for my son, that I'm teaching him what relationships are like in a wrong way because we're not together and we don't plan on being back together and, but I'm pretty much going to scar him. So my question to you was, am I setting a bad example for my son? Like, should I not be spending as much time with his son being that we don't plan on getting back together? I don't believe you that you're not planning on getting back together. That's just me. Have y'all, okay, so y'all broke up four months ago, I guess, five months ago,

is that right? Yes. Yeah. Have y'all slept okay, so y'all broke up Four months ago, I guess, five months ago, is that right? Yes, yeah Have y'all slept together in that five months? Yes Have y'all gone to dinner? We haven't in the past, like, three months Two months Okay, great, congratulations

Have y'all gone to dinner or coffee? Or when he comes to see his child Do y'all, do you just go to? Yeah. Yeah. I don't believe you is what I'm saying. That's not a bad thing. I still am your friend, and I would still hang out too.

I just don't believe you. And I think somewhere in there, y'all got crossways, y'all got sideways. And he didn't know how to handle being a new dad and it scared the crap out of him. And postpartum depression is a just nightmare. And he didn't have the tools to navigate that and said stupid things. And he's probably doing his own crap, and he was unfaithful, and, and, and. And my guess is you've got challenges too. Is that fair? Are you a lot? Yes. Yes, I am. You are. I am too. Welcome to the a lot club. And so here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking that this is a tough season, and it's frustrating frustrating and it's been really peaceful to not have to deal with that. And you still love this guy a lot.

And or you're connected to this guy. That doesn't mean you have to be married to him. It doesn't mean blah, blah, blah. But I think that there is still a part of you that's not fully done here. Here's where the challenge is for your son. It's a son, right? I just made that up. It's a son? Yes, that's not fully done here. Here's where the challenge is for your son. It's a son, right? I just made that up. It's a son?

Yes, it's a son. Okay. And again, this is putting a lot on a 10-month-old, which isn't fair. But over time, there's always this childhood fantasy that my parents will get back together at some point. And often, and this is with a little bit older kids, they will do whatever they can to try to make that, to facilitate people coming back together.

And that's not a burden that a child is designed to carry, should ever have to carry. It's unfair. and the other side of that is when two adults separate and there's kids involved and they act like adults and they treat each other with dignity and they treat each other with respect, they make the best of an awful situation, then that's better for kids. What you have to decide is where your relationship is. If you go on a trip to California with him, y'all will end up being together. You know this.

He knows this. Everybody knows this. You know who else knows? Your mom knows this. And now America knows this. And so I want you to be honest with yourself about why you're going. Is there a part of you that hopes he calls or why y'all are on the way to California?

He's like, hey, I've been in counseling and I'm sorry for the things I said. I guarantee you there's a part of you that really hopes that that conversation happens. And you may have learned some things in counseling that you hope he asks about so you can tell him. Tell me I'm way off and say, Dylan, you're an idiot. Or am I right? I,

um, I enjoy his company a lot. I'm so right. I do enjoy his company. Yes. Okay, so Jessica, what would it take? What would he have to say? Like, he calls you and says, I'm coming over this morning. What would he say to you? And you were like, all right, I'm all back in. I can feel it on you through the phone that you are one centimeter

from being all back in, but he just has to do a couple of things. What are those things? I, um, no, I just don't think that it would work out. I mean, it's just the type of person that he is. I know, I know all that. I know all that. And you've, you're, that's awesome. What would he have to say for you to be like, all right, I'm back? That he's willing to do whatever it takes to win my trust back. Yes, I knew it though. I knew it. So knew it! Anything you were saying. Yes, I knew it, though.

I knew it. So here's the thing. Here's where your mom is correct. There is going to be relational modeling. And if your son learns that there will always be, that women will hang on and hang on and hang on and hang on, and dad can leave and do whatever dad wants to do, and then swoop back in, then swoop back out,

and mom is going to continue to hang on and hang on and hang on, you are correct. There will be a modeling that's going on about this is how relationships work. Your son is not going to listen to you as much as he's going to watch you. He's not going to listen to dad as much as he watches dad. The other side of that is, I think that your relationship is still salvageable, as crazy as that sounds. I don't know him. I'd have to talk to him. And he's obviously

working through some demons. He's got some stuff that he's got to navigate. But I don't think the whole thing's over. I do think while you are in limbo land, it is not smart for you to treat him like a boyfriend. Okay. And here's the other thing. Can I say something scary? Yeah. Because you've been through a lot. Yeah.

I don't think you are broken or weak or dysfunctional or not a strong, powerful single mom. If you sit down and exhale and drop your shoulders and say, holy smokes, I still love this guy. And he did all these things and I still have feelings for him. I don't think any of that stuff is bad or wrong. But I think you've got to make peace with, I am not going to be with him. Therefore, I'm not going to be in communication with him. I'm not going to go on dates with him. I'm not going to sleep with him.

I'm not going to fill in the blank with him. I have to move on with my life. We will be connected forever because we share a child and we're going to be adults. But there is going to come a day that he calls and says, hey, me and my girlfriend are coming over to pick up our son. And that's going to be one of those moments where you can't breathe. And so I think it's about being honest with where you actually are. It sounds like y'all are on a break. The way you describe him, the things he did. Yes, he was a scumbag. Yes, he said stupid stuff. Yes, he was unfaithful. Absolutely. But you still have feelings for him in a major way. And you either need to cut ties and move on, or you need to sit down with him and be honest

about, I'm still here. I'm still in this thing. It's the limbo land that's killing you. And so here's the second thing your mom was right about, but in not a normal way. What's going to be really tough for your son is the absorption of chaos, of your anxiety, your frustration relationally, your pain. And if you're not whole and well and doing the things, and you are,

you're in counseling, you are working hard, I'm so proud of you. It's incredible. So proud of you. But if you are playing ping pong with your heart, with his dad, that's what your son will absorb. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. And so I want you to have some hard conversations with your own heart and

with yourself and truly mind yourself. If you still got your therapist, do it with them. If you have full trust with him, full trust with him. Why do you think he, I may finish my sentence here and then I'll, you've got to be honest with yourself about the status of this relationship because it feels like there's a dot, dot, dot after this last breakup. Why do you think he invited you to California? He tells me that he wants to spend time with our son more. And, um...

You don't believe him. Well... You don't believe him. Why do you think he invited you? I don't care what he said. Why do you think he invited you? Um, I think so that we can act like a family. Yeah, you can play family.

And it's super cool to play family. Is it going to his family? Going to visit friends or family of his? No, no, just going to San Diego. Just vacation, huh? Yeah, it's so fun to play family. And then he can come back to Denver, and you go back to doing all of the work night and day, and he can live his life. And then when he wants to play family, then he gets to.

Yeah. And that's not fair for you, and that's not fair for that baby, and it's not fair for you and that's not fair for that baby and it's not fair for him yeah you're right is that fair? I know I sound like your mom and I just got weird for everybody right that's exactly what she told me so she's really

going to enjoy listening to this no Jessica let me tell you this she's really going to enjoy listening to this. No! Jessica, let me tell you this. You're worth your needs being met. You're worth getting to the bottom of why you're a lot, why you're hard in relationships. And I love that you've been reflective enough to deal with that. I've had to deal with it too.

Yeah. I love that you love your baby and you want him around his dad. I hope you never, ever lose that. Yeah. I love that you love your baby and you want him around his dad. Hope you never, ever lose that. Yeah. And I love the fact that you still love. I really do. But you're going to have to make some hard decisions about what the end of a relationship means for real. Or if you want to sit down and be vulnerable and say, hey, you've hurt me in really bad ways, and I still love you. And if you will X, Y, and Z, I'm still willing to be all in or not. But you've got to put some periods at the end of some sentences so you can start writing new ones for you and your son.

Yeah, because I did make a comment about us being in limbo once, and he said, you're in limbo. I know what I want. And was it you? And I do, I feel like I'm the one that's in limbo. Like, I don't know. Yeah. You do know. If I can trust him. Yeah. Oh, he said he wants you. Yeah. He said, he, he said, you're the one that's in limbo, but we've talked in the past when I've told him, well, these are my needs. This is what I need from you. He's not willing to do them. He's like, that's too much.

And I'm like, okay, well. Then he's answering your question for you. Yeah. Then he's answering your question. I will tell you that infidelity is no good, no bueno. That's easy. I know lots of people who've got up and walked out of counseling sessions before, and that doesn't mean they're evil people.

That means their bodies say, I can't handle this right now. Yeah. And it could be stuff as far back as childhood. It could be stuff as far back as mom and dad. It could be all over the place. I know lots of people who did not handle, do not handle postpartum well. Does that excuse it? No.

It means they're uneducated, scared, terrified children who now have a child. Right? Yeah. Does that excuse what they say? No. Does that make the pain any less? No. Does that make the pain any less? No. But I know people who find themselves relationally in situations where they are out of tools.

Well, one time I actually offered one of your episodes to him. I said, hey, will you listen to this? He is giving advice to a husband who has a wife who has postpartum depression because I think I have postpartum depression. And his response was, he said, really, like, you don't think I'm doing enough for you already? And it just shattered me. Like, I had no words because tears just started flooding through. Because I'm like, it would have been a 15-minute clip you could have listened to that explained exactly what I needed from him. You're correct.

That's, it would have been 15 minutes and explained it. And some men here, Hey, I want you to listen to this other guy and he's going to tell you how to be more of a man for me. And does that mean it's wrong? I mean, it's right that he responded that way? No. But I also want to be empathetic and understand how he may have heard that. Here's an obnoxious, can I be obnoxious for a second?

Here's an obnoxious other side to that. What if he saw some woman in the mall, and he said, that's the body I'm looking at. That's the one I was thinking of for you. Go talk to her about how her workout and diet program is. Right? And you'd be like, how about I drag you into the parking lot and run over you with the car? Right?

And so sometimes we hear things in ways that aren't really what you intend, but that's how they come across. And that depends on a million of things. Again, you run up with a bunch of tools. If he can't hear the episode, okay, that's great. I'm not for everybody. Maybe you write down on a piece of paper with bullet points, here's some things that I heard from a mental health guy that would really be helpful here. Or you take what I said and you write down bullet points and then you

translate them to, here are some things that I need. Here's some different ways I can say what I need. And he's going to have to grow up and know that if somebody loves you, if the person you're in love with tells you, here's how you can best love me, it doesn't mean that you're an idiot. That's actually the greatest gift one person in an intimate relationship can give to the other is to be explicit on here's my needs. And if somebody ever has the courage to tell you their needs and you take that personally, come on, man. Be better than that. Say, thank God. Now I don't have to really try to read your mind anymore.

And it's not a statement on you failed or you're a moron. It's just that your person you love told you, hey, actually, here's what I need. And by the way, those needs will change over the course of your relationship. You're one, you're five, you're 10, you're 20, whatever. And it's, man, if you find somebody that will just tell you what they need, oh my gosh, it's so great. And I'll be honest, the times my wife has told me that when I was, especially when I was younger,

it crushed me. I thought, oh, what a loser I am. What a failure I am. And then my shame shot out and I started reacting like a child. I would be silent for three days or be grumpy or have an attitude problem because I was an immature idiot. And so I don't think you're done. I don't. Do I think this relationship can work? If y'all both wanted to, yes. Does it look great right now?

No. I don't think it's smart to go play family in San Diego, though. I don't think that. I don't. I think y'all need to sit down and have a hard, direct conversation. And then you have to make some grown-up decisions. And that's going to be hard. Thanks for calling, Jessica.

Let us know in a couple of weeks, in a couple of months, how things are going. And we'll walk alongside with you this whole way. We'll be right back on The Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book,

Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, let's go to Cassandra in Tacoma, Washington. Hey, Cassandra, what's happening? Hi, thank you for having me on your show. I really love it. Yes, that always makes me happy. Not a lot of people love it. Hey, so what's going on? How can I help? So, I've

had multiple failed romantic relationships resulting in three wonderful kids. They're nine years apart, 21, 12, and 3. Dang, Gina! 21, 12, and 3? Yeah, it's a big spread. So there was a lot of trauma

in my past, and so I know that I was picking emotionally abusive partners and that I've done a lot of work to heal it, but in the process, just kept repeating those kinds of relationships. Yeah. Um, I feel like I've done a lot of work, put in the work to heal and that I was ready for a healthy relationship. And, uh, so I started seeing someone a few months ago, but,

uh, I was struggling with like not unloading on him about my past, but also like, I knew I don't want to hide my past. Like I knew before I met him that I wanted to meet someone and I had to be brave and a little vulnerable. And, uh, just, I feel like, uh, things came out slowly over the last couple of months in our conversations. He's been asking a lot of questions and just feeling like he needs time to process the information. So I guess my question is, I was just feeling like needing advice on how I could have done it better and what I can do moving forward.

How I can show them that I'm serious. Oh, so how many times have you been married? Three. Three times, okay. So you've been married three times and you have three kids by three different ex-husbands, is that right? Correct, yeah. Okay. And how old are you?

42. 42. Okay, so you've been married three times. Your first kid when you were 21, and then... Okay, very cool. And so here you find yourself. All three of these marriages dissolved for abuse reasons.

Is that right? Primarily, there's definitely a theme of addiction and manipulative behavior. My dad was kind of a mess that way, so I picked similar people. Sure. And you've heard me say on this show, we so often marry our unfinished business. Right. Our bodies are always running towards things that are familiar, even if it's not good for us. Right. And so three times you've looped

back and been with men who hurt you and, or who weren't safe. And then you decided to get serious about healing. When did you decide to do that? I'd say it's been like over a decade, even though I was still in one of those relationships that kept like going back, but through that process, kept learning more and more about codependency and it's like hoovering and love bombing and all that. Yeah.

So what do, what have you brought to these three marriages that you want to be different in marriage number four? I definitely can improve my communication. I feel like a lot of times I would. I feel like I can write really well, and then when I try to talk, it's all jumbled and alphabet soup. Okay. Do you avoid

confrontation? Definitely I would kind of freeze, I guess. And then you take whatever crap somebody's dishing and then it builds up and builds up and builds up? Yeah. And I felt like, I definitely

felt like I've been a non-confrontational person in the past, but that I've learned slowly, like through work and things, that it's necessary. Cool. So what happened in this last one? So you started working about a decade ago, and you've got a three-year-old now. What happened in this last relationship? So I had left him, and then shortly after, he became pregnant and just kind of, sorry. No, it's okay.

So you'd left an unsafe relationship. You all got back together, and then you found out you're pregnant. Yeah, so I've always been a terrible pregnant person, like preterm labor and gestational diabetes. I was just really scared. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're a terrible pregnant person or you get sick? I get sick. Yeah, those are two totally different things.

You're not a terrible pregnant person. You get sick. It's not like a character or moral defect. I'm a terrible person when I have a lot of junk food. I act like an idiot. I get exhausted. I get all bloaty and I get grumpy. That's terrible. Just because your body gets sick, you're not terrible. So you get sick when you're pregnant. And so you've had a, you had a hard row, huh? Yeah. So I just knew. I just got scared.

I wanted some kind of stability in my back. Are you safe now? Yeah. Okay. And so then one year, two years later, you met who you think is going to be husband number four? The goal is I wouldn't say that. I've made a decision on that. I know I need to go slowly and get to know someone.

And so in the process of getting to know this person that you kind of fancy and you feel is the healthiest you've ever been, you started telling them about your past and the struggles you've had and the marriages you've had and the kids you've had. And he said, whoa. Is that right?

Yeah. Tell me about that. It's just been quiet. Like when I've had to say hard things, it'll be quiet. And he just explains, like, he needs to process. Like, it feels very respectful and that he's, you know, he's got a good head on his shoulders. And, like, I'm glad that he's being thoughtful about this. What would you like him to do?

It'd be cool if he gave me a chance. Has he said I'm out? But I know, no, he hasn't. It's just been pretty quiet the last week. So he's giving you a chance? I don't know. It sounds like he's giving you a chance, Cassandra. Here's what it sounds like. It sounds like for the first time in 20 years,

you're talking to a guy that doesn't act like an immature idiot. Yeah, this definitely doesn't seem like a man baby. And this is going to sound nuts what I'm about to say. This is one of those cool ways our bodies are designed, and this is going to sound nuts what I'm about to say, okay? This is one of those cool ways our bodies are designed, but they can get us trapped in a whole bunch of mess. We can come to identify the electricity and the chaos and the impact, if you will, of fights, of anger, of anxiety, of depression, the chemical responses our bodies dump into our system to deal with those emergencies, those fights, the running,

the freezing, all that, we can get addicted to it. It can become the thing that we know. So you've been married three times. You've been in love three times. You've had kids. You've been through childbirth with three different men. And your body remembers what that chaos was like. And you know that that chaos hurt you. You know that chaos wasn't good for your kid. It wasn't good for the stability of a relationship.

But it signaled love to you. It signaled connection, however wacky that sounds. And now you've met a guy who is processing. And before he pops off at the mouth, he quietly says, I just need some time to process it. This is a lot.

And I need a few days. Holy smokes. Did you know if every man on earth responded like that, everything would be better tomorrow, right? Yeah. It feels like if he didn't want to continue personing me, that I still feel really grateful

for having met someone like him. Yes, and hey, I'll tell you, there's a bajillion of them out there. A whole bunch. Whole, whole, whole bunch. But here's what's happening in your heart. Because there's not an electric response, a loud response, a volatile response, an emotionally abusive response,

lots of swear words and volume, there's a part of you, however dysfunctional this sounds, that is equating that to this relationship isn't as good. This one doesn't mean as much. This one's not going to end up in marriage or into a child or into whatever. And what I want to encourage you to do, and since you're calling this your first relationship where you are on a healing path, you're actually saying what you actually need, you're being honest, you're speaking up for yourself, you're not walking around in the shadows of your own relationship and your own value, you are recognizing that

your space has worth. That you're going to have to learn how to be in relationship with somebody who's emotionally mature. Yeah. Yeah, I knew like from when I was 19, like Dr. Ju used to say, like, not to go for the person that gives you that spark. So I know like that's something that's always been in the back of my mind and that healthy is going to feel weird. Yeah, it's going to feel different. Now, there is tons of sparks. There are forest fires in stability and safety.

You just have to be intentional about them. They're control burns, right? Like farmers control burn their fields, and then sometimes lightning strikes and burns down the entire community. One of those is good. One of those is not. They both involve fire. Yeah. Okay?

So here's the next part of risk, And I want to applaud you, Cassandra. And for everybody listening who hasn't been through three marriages and three kids and three emotionally and possibly physically and sexually abusive relationships and who didn't have a bunch of childhood trauma, the courage and bravery, Cassandra, you are showing by getting back up off the mat after number three and saying, I still have value, I still have worth, and I still want connection. It's strength that very few people on earth will ever know. And it comes with risk. And you know this intellectually, but your body hates risk.

All of our bodies hate risk. You especially. Because you our bodies hate risk. You especially. Because you've been through trauma. So here's the big risk. I want you to call him and say, can we have coffee? Or can we go to dinner? Can we have lunch? Whatever that looks like.

And I want you to tell him, I put a lot on you and I know I've got a pretty wild past. Tell me where your heart is right now. Do you still like me? Do you still want to be my boyfriend? Do you still want to date? And when you ask that question, that will be as vulnerable as standing naked in front of somebody. Yeah. Because you'll be putting all of standing naked in front of somebody. Yeah. Because you'll be putting all of the eggs in his basket.

He will be able to say, I don't think this is going to work for me. And that's going to hurt like holy hell. And you will have been honest for the first time in a relationship. You will have dated somebody who's honest for the first time in a relationship, and that pain hurts and that grief will hurt. But that's going to be the first step towards this is what healthy feels like. This is what healthy looks like. Fair?

Thank you for your help. And it's scary, scary. And here's what's almost more scary. If he said, yeah, I'm still in. I'm still in. Then you're going to go, oh, gosh, now you're in uncharted water. You've never been with an emotionally mature person. And you're going to be figuring this out as you go.

Here's the one thing I want you to keep in mind, Cassandra. Two things. Number one, I've said it. I'm going to say it again. You have value, and your needs are important, and you're going to have to practice being in a healthy relationship. That's number one. And you're going to have to find a dance partner who's going to practice with you.

By the way, practicing can be tons and tons and tons of fun. It's just different and scary. The second thing is this. I want you to keep... When your body takes off on you, when it feels like, ah, this is all over, I want you to try to back out of your body for a second and just look at your body, feel it,

and go, oh, man, my heart's racing. My head is spinning out of control. My body's trying to take care of me. Thank you, body. This one's safe. This guy's all right. Remember all that work we did on how to breathe and how to recognize when our heart rate's taking off on us. This was just for that moment right now, right now. And thank you for taking care of me. When your back starts hurting, when your neck hurts, you know, you get that weird crick in your neck, when you wake up 10 days in a row and your knees hurt,

I want you to step up and say, oh, body, you're trying to take care of me again. Thank you. Thank you for that. But I like this guy. And he's safe. And I'm going in. I'm going in.

I'm going to risk it. I'm going to risk it. And, by the way, just one more call out for you, Cassandra. You mentioned relational dumping. Yes, going slow is good. You've got a lot of heavy stuff in your past. Going slow is good.

Not that your past isn't worthy of being fully heard, but yeah, there's a difference between going slow and walking through people and answering questions when they ask them and then just backing a semi up to their front yard and just hitting the dump button and be like, this is me. And it all just dumps in their yard. That can be overwhelming.

You are worthy of being loved and you are worthy of being known. And yeah, you've had a wild ride. A lot of people have hurt you. You've been through a lot of mess. And slower is better. That's wise. Good for you, Cassandra.

Let us know how that conversation goes. Please write me back. Let me know how the conversation goes. Love to have you back on the show. And I'd love to have him on the show. Love to hear what he's working through and thinking through. I could always use another emotionally mature guy for the world to hear. That'd be great.

Especially on my show because I'm not always emotionally mature. Thank you so much for being brave, Cassandra. You're awesome, awesome, awesome. All right, as we wrap up today's show, who picked this one? Zach. Wow.

Are you a Dashboard fan James I like one album of theirs which one a lot a Mark a Brand a Mission

a Scar that's a good record because it's a full band one I don't love like the acoustic stuff but the full band one is really great can I do this song in his voice I won't do it in his voice

I won't do that I'll just read it straight up he lives in our community I want him to come by and be on the show one day. Zach, you know him? I'm trying to figure out how to work this thing. This is so hard. Yes. No. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the expertise I get

to work with on a daily basis. We actually found Zach in the parking lot. This isn't the OG Zach. It's the new Zach. He was just wandering around the parking lot. I'm like, hey man, want to be on a show? He's like, okay. He's playing video Zach. And he was just wandering around the parking lot. I'm like, hey, man, want to be on a show? And he's like, yeah, okay. And he's playing video games. He's actually in the middle of Minecraft.

How's it going? Are you building a city? The look of disappointment that James just gave me, I haven't received that. Now you know how I feel every show. That look of disappointment, like, oh, my gosh. I went to college. I've been producing shows for a decade And this is before my career has landed

I get it, James Alright, Zach The stranger The stranger danger On the computers I don't even know what you're doing back there Brings his favorite song of all time Ever

Oh, now you're shaking your head You don't even know how this show works It's not song of all time ever. Oh, now you're shaking your head. You even know how this show works? It's not my favorite all time. Well, I'm calling it. Dashboard Confessional, the song. He picked this song off a soundtrack, for God's sake. It's a soundtrack song of a sequel soundtrack.

People who have songs on sequel soundtracks, their own parents don't even listen to their soundtracks. I look through other lyrics, and I just didn't think that they were appropriate for this show. Well, great. Off the Spider-Man 2 soundtrack, one that we all have in our CD carousel, thanks to Zach, the song is by Dashboard Confessional.

The song is called Vindicated. Oh, geez. Hope dangles on a string like a slow spinning redemption. Gosh. How do you? Winding in and winding out, the shine of it has caught my eye and roped me in. So mesmerizing, so hypnotizing, I'm captivated. I am vindicated. I am selfish. I am wrong. I am right. I swear I'm right. I swear I knew it all

along, but I'm flawed, but I'm cleaning up so well. I sing in me. Now the things you swore you saw yourself. How did you? Gosh. Hey, this is the Dr. John Deloney Show Part Two. Stay tuned.