The Dr. John Delony Show - Is My Wife Toxic or Am I Too Sensitive?

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A man whose wife is emotionally neglectful - A woman terrified her daughter will repeat her mistakes - A wife whose husband won’t get help for his anxiety and depression To pre-order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Lyrics of the Day: "Last Hope" - Paramore Enter The Ramsey Cash Giveaway for a chance to win $3,000!  https://bit.ly/TDJDSgvwy Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm wanting to understand if my wife has emotional infidelity and if she's abusive or neglectful or if I'm just being too sensitive and needy because that's basically what she's told me. What up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. Show where we talk about your mental health, your emotional health, your marriage, dating, your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. I'm here to walk alongside you and we're going to figure out what's the next right step to take. What's the next right decision? Do you need to move? Do you need to step out? Do you need to go see somebody?

I'm here to walk alongside you and we're going to figure it out. If you want to be on the show, we can really talk about anything, anything that's going on in your life. Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. Leave a message, let us know what's going on and how we can get in touch with you. And Jenna will give you a call back or go to johndeloney.com slash ask ASK. And listen, I got two asks for you.

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that people are sending, letters, direct messages, just letting us know how the show is impacting your life. And I just want to say this. Everyone says, thank you, thank you, thank you, and I'm grateful for that, but listen, I'm just a clown on a podcast. I'm just a guy who lives in a neighborhood, a very, very rural neighborhood, but just a guy who lives in a neighborhood trying to raise my kids and be as good a husband as I can be, and I got a long way to go on both of those fronts. You're the men and women who are changing your lives. You're doing the hard work. You're putting up boundaries.

You're telling your husband and wife that you're worried about your marriage. You're moving out. You're filing for divorce. You're doing the hard things. You're changing generational family trauma. You're doing the hard work. So I'm so grateful that you're with us.

Keep doing the hard things because, man, heading into those storms, that's where the healing is. So grateful for you. Let's go out to my hometown, H-Town, go Strohs and talk to the mighty Joe. What's up, Joe? Hi, Dr. John. What up?

It's a pleasure to speak with you. It's a pleasure to speak with you, man. Hey, are our boys going to pull it out or what? Oh, I believe so. I think they're going to make one last trade here at the end, and I think we're going to pull it over the top. Ah, dude. That's my Joe.

I'm in, man. I'm in. All right, so what's up? Yeah, man, I've listened to countless hours of your show, and, man, you've helped me a ton. And so I just want to say thank you for that first off. Appreciate that. First off. Um, so my question is, um, you've talked about emotional infidelity and you talked about emotional abuse and I'm, I'm wanting to understand if, if my wife is emotionally, um, has emotional infidelity and if she's abusive or neglectful, or if I'm just,

um, being too sensitive and needy, cause that's basically what she's told me. There's a lot of layers here already, man. So, so let me know what's going on. Yeah. So the backstory, um, you know, I met my wife through actually her cousin. We worked together. She introduced me to my wife now, and, you know, everything was great in the beginning. I thought she was a wonderful person. She was a wonderful person. I thought she had a wonderful heart.

She's a teacher, just like your wife is. And she really, really loved kids. And that was one of her big things is she really, really wanted to have kids. So we got married and we immediately tried to have kids because I knew how important that was to her. And I wanted to have kids too. And, you know, I never, you know, thought I was going to be ready. And I don't think you ever are ready. You just have to kind of jump into it. So we had kids right away. I mean, we, when we tried to have

kids that happened very, very quickly. Um, but, but quickly after we have had kids, um, the, our sex life just fell apart. Um, I combined it in her, you know, that I needed the intimacy and, um, you know, that I that I felt like she was really distant. She basically just told me, I'm too tired. I don't have time for it. There's always an excuse. We went to counseling for a bit. During the counseling sessions, it came up.

And then for whatever reason, she basically just told the counselor that she didn't want to continue anymore. So it stopped. It's gone from... So wait, hold on. So when you brought up, when you're talking about what are the challenges

in your relationship and you brought up the lack of sexual intimacy, y'all aren't sleeping together. You're not – usually these conversations are not just about doing it. They're also about like you don't hold my hand. You leave the room when I walk in. Like there's not that gentle touch on my shoulder. So there's a whole picture here. When you brought that up, she just said, this conversation's over.

I'm out. I mean, it wasn't that quickly, but it was relatively quickly. I mean, it was brought up towards the end of one session, and then the beginning of another session, she said she just didn't want to continue anymore. And another back story with her, what she's told me about her past is she's been married, was married previously, and she confided to me that her ex-husband was physically abusive. It was like a one-time occurrence, but he was. And I've always thought, okay, well, that has something to do with it. And I think the counselor was trying to see if there were

some back history there. So that might be another reason why she something to do with it. And I think the counselor was trying to see if there was some back history there. So that might be another reason why she tried to shut it down. But the thing about what she told me, though, about her past that's been a little confusing over the years is, you know, I was very sympathetic of what she told me, and, you know, it broke my heart. But I've come to find out over the years that she's never told anybody about it. Nobody, only me. And she didn't want anybody else to know about it. So I hate this. I don't want to say that I don't believe her, but initially, you know,

I believed her a hundred percent and then as time has gone on, I'm starting to question whether or not the story was 100% true or not. Sure. Does that make sense? Yeah. Tell me about emotional infidelity. I mean, she's very passive aggressive, dismisses my feelings. I've written, I've tried multiple different avenues to try to get through to her on how I feel you know I've done the direct approach

where I sit her down and talk to her I've written her letters I've written her poems and it was almost kind of like well this is ridiculous she has told me directly that

I'm needy and too sensitive. That's basically what she's told me. And she's very dismissive also of things that are important to me. Um, like I'll give you an example. It's something small, but it came up the other day. I'm, I'm really big on communication and we obviously have a horrible communication, um, communicate, sorry, horrible communication in our marriage. And one of the things that I've asked her to do is, look, if she's going to have any friends or family come over, just let me know so I know in advance they're coming. And she hardly ever does it. And the other day, someone just popped up, and I had no idea they were coming.

And I asked her, I said, why didn't you tell me they were coming? She's like, I don't need to tell you that. So just for technicality, emotional infidelity, the way I would classify that is somebody that has feelings for somebody else. They haven't slept with them. They're not holding hands. They're not going on dates. But somebody who has chosen to confide in somebody that's not their person they're married to

super super common sneaks up on you um and it can definitely be worked through but it definitely is a thing right that doesn't sound like what's going on here what sounds like what's going on here and and i i always want to enter into these spaces very carefully, okay, because um I just want to tell for the larger the the people listening One of the things you never ever want to do when somebody confides in you like you're doing right now What you're saying joe is hard to say Right, you're saying things out loud. You're being pretty vulnerable with me and i'm really grateful for it. That's hard for a dude to say, right? You're saying things out loud. You're being pretty vulnerable with me and I'm really grateful for it. That's hard for a dude to say, hey man, I'm like pouring myself out to her

and she just keeps shutting me down. It's my wife. It's my mother of my kids, right? That's hard to say out loud, right? And my guess is you don't tell a whole bunch of people that. But one of the cardinal rules when somebody opens up to you is to never bad mouth their spouse because they might get back together and then they're going to remember what you when you're like yeah she sucks then they y'all reconcile you're always going to know like that dude said my wife's you know i mean so i always want to tread carefully here but i also want to be really honest and we have a a contracted time to talk so can i just be direct straight ahead? Is that cool? Sure.

Yeah, you're dealing with somebody. I'm not going to diagnose her over the phone, obviously, but you're dealing with somebody who doesn't give a crap about you. And I need you to hear me say this directly. You're not crazy. In fact, given what you've told me, and I know there's always two sides to every story, right? And I've had these conversations where I talk to a dude like this

and then I talk to her and she's like, oh yeah, let me fill you in. And it's like, okay, that makes sense. But I don't get that sense from you, man. I sound like a guy who loves his wife and is doing everything he can to connect with her from the direct approach, the indirect approach, the I'm going to help her on the house approach to the, approach, the I'm going to help around the house approach

to the, hey, you want to dream together approach to here's some poetry approach. It's not like you're doing everything you can, man. And you're consuming stuff like this show. You're trying to figure out what is it about me? And I want you to hear me say, I don't think it's you, man. I don't think it's you. And let me tell you why that's hard to say.

Because now you're left with this terrifying, well, now what? Right? Because there's not, it doesn't sound like there's something you can just go fix. I'm going to say something that's going to sound really callous. And I'm saying this as somebody who's been through my own hell and back, okay? And also has worked with a whole bunch of people. Trauma is very, very real. I wrote a whole book about it. And it cascades through a person's entire life and through their family tree if they don't deal with it.

And it's not an excuse to shut your life down. And so we do not choose the trauma that happens to us. We don't choose the abuse, the marginalization. We don't choose being born in the wrong neighborhood, the wrong color, all those things. We don't choose that stuff. We do choose what comes next. And so it sounds like somewhere along the way, either hell visited your wife, either before she was your wife, when she was a little kid, whatever. Or like you said, now I'm starting to even doubt if that's even true. Here's the deal. It honestly doesn't matter. What matters is, is she going to look at the person she committed her life to and say, I hear you. I may not be able to sleep with you three times a week right now.

I get that. But I also understand that I can't go through my whole life, not touching my husband. I'm going to go do the work I need to do to be well. I am going to go see a counselor. I'm going to go sit with a mentor. I'm going to go figure out why does my body pull away when the man I love leans in, the father of my kids leans in, right? And so that's her work to do and you can't do it. And it sounds like what you're saying, man, she doesn't have any interest at all in doing it. No, it doesn't. I mean, everything that's important to me, just she shuts down. I mean, I go to church every Sunday with my boys and my dad. I've asked her on multiple occasions to come that I thought was very important, and she just gives me excuses why she doesn't want to go.

I'll give you a great example of one of the reasons why I wrote in. Recently, I had a car accident. Someone cut me off, and it totaled my truck. I wasn't hurt to where I me off and it totaled my truck. And I wasn't hurt, you know, to where I had to go to the hospital, but I was pretty shaken up and I had pretty bad whiplash. And when I, you know, called her about the accident, she, instead of coming to the accident, she said, do I need to come? And so of course I was just like, no, you're fine to stay. And then when she got home that evening, you know, I told her, I said, hey, you know, I could really use some intimacy. You know, my, you know, my wife kind of flashing for my eyes and, you know, I really could use, you know, you to help me rub my shoulders and help me, you know, to feel a little better.

And her exact words were, I'm not doing that because I might make your condition worse. So that's what kind of like sent me over the top to write it right in. Can I be a jerk for a second? Sure. I just want to paint you an opposite picture here. My wife and I by a thousand miles are not perfect. Okay. Like I don't want anyone at all to think that.

Right. Last year when I was doing my Wim Hof breathing exercises in my car, doing 85 miles an hour down the highway, and I passed out and I totaled my car, I was okay. I actually drove the car. It went, I drove it in and parked it at the office and had to tow it out of here. But I got here and I called my wife and I said, hey, I totaled the car. I'm okay. Just wanted to let you know I'm safe. If somebody saw me on the side of the road or whatever, I want you to know I'm okay. And it was about 35 or 45 minutes later and we live 30 minutes from here.

My wife showed up here Right and she had tears in her eyes and she said I just need to see you And she came and gave me a hug and and like but I need you to know that's the other side I tell you all that to tell you. It's not a fantasy. You're not a needy whiny guy You're not crazy But I also want to tell you this. You have to get out of her head and stop playing the, what if I just do this?

What if I just do this game? You have to shift into what I'm going to call a whole other mode. And it's terrifying, dude. You have to ask yourself, this is who she is. And this is who she is choosing to be when it comes to spiritual matters, when it comes to sexuality, when it comes to connectivity. And if it hasn't already, it's going to show up with parenting decisions and choices. So let me say this as clearly as I can. She does not care about you. And I hate saying that, but you, you feel that. Yes, I feel it. So you'd have to ask yourself, what am I going to do next? And I can't give you that answer. That might be, all right,

cool. I'm going to, this is the life I chose. This is the person I chose. I'm going to settle in here. This might be you sitting down with a counselor and begin saying, what does life look like not with her? This might look like sitting down with her counselor and begin saying, what does life look like not with her? This might look like sitting down with her and saying, okay, I've reached the line here. And I want to say this. When it comes to infidelity, you may have heard me say this, and so I'll make sure I clarify myself here. We talk about infidelity a lot as like, did you have sex with somebody? Did you text somebody?

Did you kiss somebody? I think infidelity is a whole, is an infinitely bigger picture, right? It's about withholding. It's about denial. It's about, I'm going to be about my life over your life. I'm going to be about my wants and my needs. and I don't care about the covenant I made with you that we're going to be about doing life together. And so I take a much wider angle when it comes to infidelity because a lot of people are just flat out terrible marriage partners. They're selfish. They're narcissistic. They're jerks. They're quasi, not physically, but they're quasi abusive. They're just awful. But then they say, I don't sleep with anybody. Yeah, dude, but you violated the covenant of this marriage. Because when you get married,

you say, you before me. And she says, you before me. And you spend the rest of your life in service to one another. And y'all are in service to building something completely new, man. And here's the thing. I hate this for you, dude. And if you were here, I'd give you a hug, man. Because I know what I'm telling you is like a sack of bricks on your shoulder because you felt it and you felt it and you felt it, but you got to ask yourself, what do I do next? What do I do next? And I'm going to recommend you get with somebody, probably a professional or a minister in your community, or it sounds like your old man and you are pretty close. I would sit down with somebody and have, get some reflection. And you can go into a lot more detail with this person i guess my final thing i'm sorry i'm sorry that your wife is um choosing

to kick dirt in your face choosing to not, choosing to leave you out in the cold. I'm so sorry, man. And if your wife has a rebuttal to this, if she watches this and she's like, oh, you need to know the other half, I'd love for her to call in, man. I'd love for the other side of the story, but this is the one I got. And quite honestly, it breaks my heart, but this is not an uncommon story where somebody gets married, has kids, and they're done with him. Now I can have my life, the one that I wanted with what I wanted.

I'm through with this. And I hate that for everybody. I hate that for the kids. I hate that for both the husband and the wife. I hate it for everybody. I hate it for everybody. Thanks for the call, my brother. I wish I had some better news or some like,

oh yeah, just try this. Sounds like you've gone to the ends of the earth, man. You're going to have to live in that season of what do I do now? And when you make that decision of what I'm going to do now, you got to be at peace with it. You got to be at peace with it. Because living in that gray space, man, will kill you.

Sit with somebody else who you trust, who can reflect back with you. Y'all make a path for moving forward, man. Call anytime I can help. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future, man. Just free of charge. It's a book for you to read. It's about what to do when everything falls apart and how to pick up the pieces and take a new path. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever.

Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself where you can be honest with yourself

And where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest authentic life Costumes and masks should be for halloween parties not for our emotions and our true selves If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at better help better help is a hundred percent online therapy You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month.

That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right. Hey, we're back. Kelly's out and Jenna's producing the show today. So Jenna's going to tell you this because you were out and about when this happened. Joe, you may have been in there too. So I was sitting there scrolling through instagram the other day and the team over here posted that clip of when dave And rachel dave ramsey and rachel were on the air And a woman called in and asked about selling her house and

It turned out there was a life or death abuse situation and a little infant kid in real time happening on the air. And while this was going on, I had no idea. I'm back in my office and I come out to use the restroom, which is like right by the studio. And then I stuck my head in just to be an idiot. Like I always am like, hey, everybody. And Kelly was running the phones and she looked at me and said, get in here now.

And she took off her headset and just handed it to me. I didn't know what was going on. And I talked to this woman and we were on the phone for about an hour. And there was an extended period of time when I thought I was going to hear somebody get murdered in real time. And unfortunately, I've had experience in those situations, but I've never had it where I'm not there. And this was just on the phone. It was a terrifying transaction of walking this woman through. She was amazing. This man had her kid. It was a whole thing. We called the police, got the police there. It was amazing. And then ended up working with her for months afterwards. And Dave paid for, I mean, it's been amazing how the company supported all that. All that was great. I tell you that to tell you this,

I was there. I was there. I worked through that situation and I went home. And I mean, it was just kind of par for the course. And then John, I'll call him John 3.0. John has been to a lot of counseling in the last year. So this thing comes up on Instagram and I'm watching it. And I started sobbing, crying. I couldn't stop. And here's what was magic. I look up and I was waiting for Josephine to get out of the shower. And she has one of these wraparound towels with like a hoodie on it. And so she wraps herself real tight when she gets out of the shower and it's just her face poking out. And I didn't know she'd come into the room and she had just materialized into the room and was just looking across the room at me. And I am sobbing, looking at this phone. I

look up and see her, we make eye contact. And she said, are you okay, daddy? And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm okay. Go get dressed, go get dressed. And she goes to get dressed and she comes back and I sat down and I just told her there was this woman and her husband was being really mean and was trying to hurt her and her baby and her eyes got really big. And I told her in an age appropriate way. And I said, and daddy and his friends helped this lady. And it just made me sad thinking about how scared she was and made me so grateful that there's people there to take care of her. And so I talked to her and she just stood there for a count of like three or four seconds, said nothing. I'm sitting in a chair and she's just this little tiny,

little seven-year-old girl. And then she just leaned in and gave me the biggest hug of my life. And she said nothing. She just squeezed me so tight. And I thought to myself of all the things, all the moments she's broken my heart of last five years, we're going to be all right. There is something about the hug of your little daughter.

But I tell everybody to tell you this. I'm dealing with these new things called feelings, and I'm still working about how they just work through my body. And more importantly, in real time in my house, one of the greatest gifts I can give my kid is to show them that their old man has some emotion, that their old man shows up in hard situations and it scares him to death. And he cries and he says, yeah, I was really nervous and I was really scared and I didn't know what to do,

or I didn't know what to do and it still made me scared. And it's okay just to be quiet and accept a hug from a five-year-old little girl, seven-year-old little girl, from my wife, from my son. All of the human experience is okay. And as parents, if we can share that with our kids, it is magic for changing that family tree. It's magic. It's magic. Don't hide from your kids. Don't hide from your kids. All right, let's go out to Wisconsin and talk to Come On Eileen. What's up, Eileen? How we doing? Hi, how are you?

Partying. How are you? I'm actually taking my lunch, but that's so funny that you said Come On Eileen. When I was a kid, now you got to remember my name rhymes with like a terrible lunch meet, right? So I was John Bologna and we had a friend like in our little gang named Eileen and we used to call her Eileen Dover and we used to say, is your friend Ben coming over? And I always thought that was hilarious. Eileen Dover and Ben Dover.

So same team. So what's up, dude? Hi. So I like wrote down, I know, I know. So I wrote down my question because I knew that I was just going to like go rambling on. So my question is, um, I'm afraid. So, okay. I'm afraid my daughters will follow my footsteps and become a teen mom. Like I was. And I know you often say like, you know, there, you have an alarm system. Well, my alarms are like blaring right now. Um, I have a 14 and 13

year old right now, but, um, I have five, I have five kids, four of them girls. Yes. Wow. Okay. I know. I know. Um, that's a lot in that house. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. And then, uh, my boy doesn't have any say pretty much, but are you married? Um, I just got divorced. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. But, um, yeah, my alarms are like, you know, just blaring. And I've become very controlling with my older ones. I have more patience with the younger ones, but with my 14 and 13 year olds, I am so controlling to the point that the other day, my daughter, she said, mom, you're literally making me feel like I'm a fuck up. And I'm like like that's not my intention and um I often and I'm gonna get emotional because it's all right it's all right go for it I feel like I'm so controlling because I want I don't want this life that I mean I think I have a good life

now you know but I don't want them to go through the struggles that I did. And I often, my anxiety kicks in and I often portray that as anger when I'm talking to them, when I'm trying to like, I played this in my head, like maybe if my parents just, you know, told me, Hey, just keep playing sports or, you know, like do this club in high school or something, you know? And so I've been doing that with my girls. That's not, that's not it. Tell me about your, um, tell me about your divorce. So I met him when I was 19. Yeah, I was 19. But my three older kiddos, they're from my high school, not-so-sweetheart, I like to say. Okay.

And I spent pretty much all my 20s in this relationship. And it's funny how like, how old were you when you had your first kid? I was 16, 16, 16. And I had my 16, 17 and 19. Okay. And that's with the high school boyfriend. Yeah. Okay. All right. And so is that dude still in the picture? Um, no, he never really he never really was until after my son was born. You know, I just, I had this picture, like, I want a family. I want this to work out. But he was always cheating on me.

And so I, you know, I finished high school, did some college. And, you know, now I'm here. But then I met, you know, my ex, my ex-husband. And we ended up getting married., we had two more kids. Um, and he pretty much is raising, he's raising all the kiddos. Um, I think we have a better relationship now than we did as we were married. Um, why is that? Um, he was, He was very jealous. I'm like a very uppity kind of person. I'm very friendly.

I talk to everybody. I just, you know, I'm a happy person. And he had a lot of trauma, a lot of trauma. And he couldn't understand how, you know, he could be loved when he just grew up in a house where there was no love at all. And I tried to love him. Can you understand that? Yeah, I understand it now. No, no, no, no.

Can you understand being loved? To be honest, Dr. John, no. I don't think you can. I don't think you can. I don't think you can. So let me, let me, like, as I'm listening to you talk, yes, you've got teenage girls. They are entering into the season when you discovered your sexuality. Guys started giving you attention. And that whole thing went sideways. You had a baby at 16.

That's a, that's a, that's a huge, I don't know if it's called traumatizing, but it's a, that's a kid having a kid, right? That's a, that's a, that's a huge, uh, I don't know if it's called traumatizing, but it's a, that's a kid having a kid, right? That's a huge thing. Yeah. And were your parents involved at all? They were. And, um, I, I think about it now and, um, I'm first generation American. Um, my, my dad is Mexican. So is my mom. And they both came from really big families where my grandma also had her kid at like 15, you know? Sure. Um, so it wasn't, it wasn't a weird, you weren't a terrible human kind of thing. Right, right, right. Okay. And so, um, so it just was what it was, but, but here's what I want to say. Like, um, it's right for your body to be trying to get your attention, right? It went through a lot. 16 years old is tough.

That's really hard. Even with your full support of your family, that's hard. And then another one at 17? I'm in my 40s and I have two kids and I don't know what day it is. When I was 17, god almighty and then you had a third like so And then you the dad never shows up And he's just a bum an absolute bum And you have these visions and these dreams of what love is going to look like and what family is going to look like

And not only that but you have the first generation pressure of you're going to make it. You're going to do all these things that we didn't get to do. That's why we're here, right? And you have all this pressure, all this stuff. And then you find somebody that says, I do. And he's got his own trauma past and he's trying to raise five kids and y'all are trying to raise five kids. what it sounds like to me is you've got a body that has been screaming at you for years that honey we are not safe we're not safe we're not connected we are one or two decisions away from not having food on the table and first first baby daddy like he didn't want to be around. And now this

guy doesn't want to be around. Like your body's trying to get your attention. And so, yeah, we got to deal with the high school kids. I mean, we got to deal with that. That's, that's going to come. And I've got some, some thoughts about that. The greatest gift you can give your daughters is for you to break what I would say is a generational curse. And that is, I'm going to take care of mom and make sure mom is well and mom is whole. I promise you with all my heart, your parents telling you to go play softball or to be on the track team would not have made you feel more loved. It wouldn't have. And you know that too, right?

Yeah. And so how long, how long have you been divorced? Um, well, we've been separated for two years and divorced for one. So are the girls and the boys, are they going back and forth? How are y'all working that out? So during summer, the girls don't usually go over there anymore because they'd rather hang out with their friends.

There's times where they do go hang out with, you know, they call him dad. But the three younger ones, they're there Tuesdays and like Wednesdays overnight. And then I get them the rest of the week and, you know, because I deliver mail. So my schedule is kind of wonky. But, and, you know, I have been, like you said, taking care of mom. So I have been, you know, seeing a therapist. And me and my two older girls actually see the same therapist. I feel like there's some trauma there, maybe like me growing up. Because you said, you know, a kid raising a kid.

Yeah, it's just going to be hard no matter what. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to affect everybody. How's that going? It's going really good I actually saw her yesterday and she said that my oldest

said your oldest can come back whenever she feels like she wants to because I think she's done she's been doing great so whenever that pops up you know I'll take her back an important part about the counseling is it gives you

tools here's what I think I think between you especially you're too old and you and I could talk for probably six hours on all the pieces to this but let's focus on the two oldest girls because that's the main reason why you called what those

girls need more than anything is a direct line connection with their mom and this sounds like some big like spectacle some big firework show that's not how this works this is week after week you've heard me say this if you listen to the show ever about, I think it was a year, maybe two years ago, I started having just a weekly breakfast with my son. This year, my daughter is in second grade and I'm going to add her.

So twice a week, that's a big commitment for us. Financially, it's a big commitment for us. Time-wise, especially time. But once a week, I go to lunch with my, I mean, I go to breakfast with my son and I don't miss ever unless I'm out of town. If I'm out of town, I got to make it up. And I'm going to add my daughter too.

And here's what it is. It is lame conversation. After we play questions for humans, we talk about books that we're reading. My son and I are going to get a little more intentional. My daughter's just going to be building relationships. And in those moments over the course of one year, two years, I've been able to say, hey, I made this mistake in middle school and here's what it cost me. Here's what it did. And you're going to be able to say, hey, the single greatest decision I ever made in my life was having you. And at 16, it was really, really hard.

But what your girls need more than somebody micromanaging every breath and every thought is a mom that they know and they trust and they love. Is that fair? Yeah. And there's probably some things you have never told them There's probably some things that they're not old enough to know They're only 13 14 and you can tell her tell these girls when you're 18 When you're 21, there's some stuff about mom's life. I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna tell you about the hard stuff

Not because I want you to feel sorry for me But because y'all are young women in this crazy crazy world And I want y'all to walk into the world with eyes wide open. And also, I tell you all that to tell you this. Restriction is also super important for 14 and 13-year-olds. Can I tell you what I mean by that? You're going to think I'm insane. A 14-year-old girl has zero, none, no business having a smartphone.

Zero. A 14-year-old girl has no business going on dates. None. Zero. Too young. They're a child. Okay? 14-year-olds should be allowed to go to parties where there's guys and girls there

But there's got to be adults there and parents it's their job to call and make sure there's adults there and make sure there are Um, there are people with the same values that we have And i've had hard conversations with my kids. I'm, sorry This is adults between adults, but you can't go to this and I know it's disappointing. I know it's heartbreaking But I have one job And so there is these move right which is you just need to connect and let them go Let them go be them bullcrap and there's also the shut them down You treat them like robots and that's bullcrap too

What i'm telling you eileen is you got to do both you got to listen to those alarms and know they're your alarms, not everybody's. Right? Okay. And if you continue working on your own anxiety, and what does that mean? I'm going to send you my book, my brand new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life for Free. It's going to be my gift to you, okay? It's not even out in the world yet. I'm going to send it to you, okay?

Thank you. But there's a path to take so that your alarms settle down enough so that you can then interact with the world and identify real threats, real challenges that come up. And it's not just ringing off the hook all the time, 24 seven, 365. I'm going to tell you something crazy. Last night, I just went up to my bed and I went to sleep. My wife has the flu, so I'm sleeping upstairs. I just went to bed. No drugs. I just turned the light off and went to sleep. Can you imagine that? Yes. You know, this morning I had some coffee. I had to be up here super, super early for some media. I left my house at 5.15. I just had a cup of coffee. I'm kind of tired.

It was a great day. Can you imagine that? I am. Like, that's what I want for you so bad. But I can't want it more than you want it. Do you want it that bad? Yeah, I've actually been working on that, honestly. I'm so proud of you.

And I actually, so for the past two months i've made complete changes because um i i trained jujitsu and with my work schedule it's been really just i haven't been able to make the evening classes like i want to so i started waking up and going to the morning classes before work. And I just started my meal plan again and everything. And I've been feeling great. And so I'm like, well, now, you know, what else do I do? And I want to ask, I've asked my girls, like, come train with me, you know, and they have this thing where they just don't want to right now. Okay. And so I'm going to say something that's kind of controversial. Okay. Okay. And so I'm going to say something that's kind of controversial. Okay. Okay.

There are 13 and 14. They have a, um, they get an, they get a vote, but not the final one. And so you can tell them you don't have to train, but you're coming to the gym with me.

And y'all are going to sit over there in the chair, but you're coming to the gym. You're not just going to sit here. My mom goes and trains and if nothing else if nothing else they get to watch their mom Be an absolute gangster training early in the morning And you get to offer it and offer it and offer you guys want to get on mass you want to get on the match you Want to train? I'm all in

And then after six months if they don't want to, then they get to choose something. My rule with my kids is you got to do something. You can't just sit at home and go, because even the best kids in the world are still 13 and 14 year olds and they can't compete with the screens and the video games and the smartphone.

They can't compete with all that crap. And so it's up to the parents to say, you got to get out of the house. You got to go do one thing. And I know I also talk about the insanity of like travel sports and all the lunacy, like let's go. They're not semi-professional athletes at seven or at 14, right? So I get that too. There's a happy medium, but in many ways they don't get a vote. I mean, they can say like, I don't want to do jujitsu. That's fine, but we're gonna go to the gym So you can you can participate or you're gonna sit there in that chair

You're not gonna sit there on your phone either by the way, you can take a book if you'd like you can read But that's it. That's it. That's gonna happen this way And expect pushback expect them to be 14 and 13 year olds like you and I both were Expect them to roll their eyes and be like, oh, mom's the worst. You're not. You're not. The grand picture here is this. Let them know who their mom is. Let them know, begin to get a glimpse, slowly open the door of the next few years as to the things mom has experienced. And continue to hold the line, continue to be a parent that has boundaries and restrictions and takes care of their children, which is what 13 and 14 year olds are.

And if the smartphone thing isn't out of the, out of the gate already, if the just complete access to every movie channel ever made, isn't already out of the barn, take it back, take it back. You're the parent. You're the parent. It's both in as we navigate this thing. And if you see your daughter getting too close to somebody, cut it off. Cut it off. Call it out. Put your daughter in safe positions, okay? It's both and it's all of it. This is hard and this is messy, but here's the biggest of all the pictures here. Here's the biggest meta takeaway. The anxiety alarms are yours, not theirs. You said something really important at the beginning of the call that your anxiety comes out like anger towards them, don't take the bricks out of your backpack

and hit your kids with them. And I know you don't want to. That means the work that has to be done is work on you. Continue to see a counselor. Continue to work on those things like your physical body, your nutrition. Continue to do those things. Continue to write down your thoughts

and work hard to change those automated things. I'm gonna send you this book. Work through these six daily choices. Get out of debt. Stop owing people money. Create a life where you are free, where you're free. And then when your 14-year-old comes

wandering into the room, rolling her eyes out of the back of her head, you can kind of smile. You're not gonna make me mad. You're 14. And no, you're not going to this party where there's not going to be any adults. And no, you're not going to have a smartphone because I love you too much. No, fill in the blank. That's my job. But I'm going to take you out. Let's go. Grab three friends. We're going to the movies. And you're going to have capacity and space. It's freedom. It's peace. And this, my sister, is changing your family tree.

Hang on the line. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about, though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a

church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or your prayer experience with Hallow, and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app. They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour,

and you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the Hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it

and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself and sometimes you do this with a group and hallow helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet Earth, Halo, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show,

get three free months when you go to halo.com slash deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to halo.com slash deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, let's go out to Michigan to Grand Rapids and talk to the great and wonderful Carrie. What's up, Carrie? Hi, Dr. John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Of course. How are you this morning? I could not be better. Doing great. Doing great. So what's up? Great. Well, so I have a situation. My husband is suffering from anxiety and depression, and it's been affecting me and our five-year-old

son. He really refuses to talk about it. He just kind of brushes off suggestions to get outside help. And I just don't know how to support him. I don't know what I can do to help. But it's gotten to the point where, you know, I just, I don't want to live this way any longer. Especially if he's kind of shutting everything down and not wanting to address it. My, um, my heart's broken because my wife could have been the one that made this call.

I've been there on the other side of this thing. And so I get it. I also get, you have to take care of yourself. You have to take care of that little one. And it can feel like one thing I didn't get, especially initially, is that there's a lot of you looking in the mirror saying, what is it about me that isn't good enough for him to go get the help he needs? What is it about our kid that isn't a big enough deal that he's going to go get the help he needs? Exactly. Yeah. Those questions will drag you underwater, right? Yeah. Well, I have a little bit of background on this. I think that it started, I'm not sure, but

so less than a month of us dating, we've actually, we've been together about 18 years and married for 11. Less than one month into us dating, his mom was murdered overseas. Wow. And he did not take any time off work. He stayed as busy as he could. He worked overtime, tried to find projects to do around the house. We have reason to believe that his brother had something to do with that. So of course, you know, he's kind of lost that relationship too. But now he's, I believe that he's still using being busy as a coping mechanism.

And we feel like we're in his way. He's constantly up. Constantly just on the go, on the go, on the go? Yes. You may have heard me say my buddy Ian Simpkins gave me a great line one time, said that if busyness is your drug, then rest will feel like stress. Yes, that's exactly how it is. I feel like the anxiety really kicks in. Weekends are very hard for us because it throws us off our normal routine.

And it feels like you're married to a, my wife described it. She said it was like being married to a taser. Yes. It was just electric. And if I said anything, she's like, I obviously would never hit my wife. I didn't scream. I wasn't loud or anything. But she said, if I said something, it just came back so electric that I just found it easier to say nothing. It was just safer to say nothing.

And then he feels that disconnection, which makes him go to the only thing, only drug he knows, which is work more, which then pulls him further away and then just getting this cycle. So let me tell you this. I'm going to tell you exactly what helped in my life. Okay. I'm going to give you the playbook that, that ultimately pulled me out of this mess and saved my life and, um, may not work for everybody. Um, my life isn't everybody's life. Um, but it's the best roadmap I got. Okay. Okay. Number one, I want to avoid the trap of saying everybody grieves in the same way. And I really fell into this early on, okay? I would tell old grizzled ranchers, you need to spend some time crying. And that was wrong.

They didn't. Their bodies metabolized trauma differently than mine did. It just did. And so there's not a right or wrong way for this to look. And so I want to move the way that he quote unquote should be grieving his mom, the way he should have grieved his mom. I want to move all that to the side. The second thing I want to move to the side is any sort of clinical diagnostics. Has he ever gone to a psychologist or medical doctor and been diagnosed as anxious

and with some sort of depressive disorder or some type of anxiety disorder? No. Okay. I want to move all diagnostics off to the side. Okay. Let's move them over there. Let's stop using the words anxiety. Stop using the words depression. Those are clinical terms. That's like saying you got the flu or you've got some sort of infection and you need to get antibiotics. I don't take an antibiotics. We really don't know. So let's move those things over to the side. I want you to, so we got those over to the side. So here's what you can do. Okay. Number one, this is going to sound nuts. And I know you're going to think, all right, idiot, I've already tried this, but this isn't a one and done thing. I'm talking about this as an ethos, okay? As a way of being and your body's alarms are going to

ring off the hook. The only time I would tell you don't do this is if he is abusive, either verbally or physically, okay? Is he either of those two things? No. Okay, cool. I want you to create a posture of leaning towards him, not away. Okay? Here's what that looks like. When he walks in the door, everything in your body says, get out of the room. I want you to go towards him. When he's sitting down at the table, kind of like that, my wife called it theay afternoon bear. There's just a bear in the living room and we just know to avoid it

I want you to go sit by him real close Make him tell you to move Because i'm telling you he probably won't If he does now you have an avenue. We got to deal with some bigger issues here. Okay Okay he does, now you have an avenue. We got to deal with some bigger issues here. Okay. Okay. And okay. So we're going to lean in instead of pulling away. Number two, I want you to start calling a spade a spade. What do I mean by that? Honey, you cannot disappear when I bring our son into the

house. That's different than your anxiety is driving us crazy. I want you to be very specific about the things he is doing in the house that is causing you and your son and your home to not be whole. Because when you take a doer, when you take somebody who's obsessed with whose drug is being busy, and you say, I need these specific things. At first, those become tasks to check off. And what he'll find is my wife leans in a lot closer when I'm helping around the house and when I'm quiet and when I'm exhaling in his body, his nervous system will begin to respond before his head does. His head will be like, oh, it's so annoying

I gotta do the dishes on top of everything else i'm doing Yeah, body will relax Okay, here's number three Okay, I did not know this had happened But my buddy I we had my son hank. I think he was two. Um, maybe he was 18 months old One of my best friends on the planet, Todd, he had had a little boy and he called and he's like, hey, me and my wife are coming to bring our kid over. He lived about three hours away. I'd moved away after college. And we're going to

bring our little boy over so our boys can meet and you can meet my son. And I want to meet your son all that. And I was like, that sounds great. And when he came over, I spent a couple of hours with him talking about everything. About this and about this and what about this and the economy is going to do this and my house is falling apart here and all this. I went all in. He was my friend and I vomited all over him. And he walked around the house with me, looked at all the problems.

And I'll never forget this. We were out on my driveway. And he looked at it. And you'll never forget this. We were out on my driveway and he looked at it and you got to picture this. I'm a wild haired, just loud mouth spastic guy. And I've calmed down a lot over the last decade. So I was a mess. And he is this, he's had the same haircut since he was zero years old. He tucks his shirt in to go to bed. I think he's just like a straight lay. He's a banker. He's just as straight as can be. Okay. Everything's lined up. And he had his hands in his pockets and he listened to me and listened to me and listened to me and listened to me. And then he finally looked at me and said, hey, your house is good. This conversation is over. We're not

having it anymore. And you need to go get yourself checked out. And that was the first time in my life when he left, I thought, the first time I thought, it may be me. Because I trusted that guy. And I came to find out later, my wife had called him and said, I'm really worried about John and I don't know what to do And he had said i'll come down and talk to him and he brought his family i'm getting all choked up

Just thinking about it now He took a day off of work and drove down to see me And so it may be that you reach out to a friend of his one or two of his buddies who love him And she's since done that again, and it was really important In fact when I was writing this last book, she called Todd and another one of my friends, John, and they flew down to see me here in Nashville. And after that, I went and checked myself into a hotel.

And then after that, I went and checked myself. I went and got with a trauma counselor and started some real healing. It was really important. But it started with my wife saying, okay, he listens to these men in his life. He needs to reach, I'm gonna reach out to them. And it wasn't a violation of my trust. It was her saying, okay, he listens to these men in his life. He needs to reach, I'm going to reach out to them. And it wasn't a violation of my trust. It was her saying,

I love you. And this guy needs some oxygen. And those guys have oxygen for my husband. And so number three is reach out to somebody that might be able to get through it to him in a way that you can't. Okay. But I want to throw away the clinical language, be very clear and specific. And ultimately the conversation with my wife that changed my life was in our backyard in a couple of folding chairs. It wasn't any grand thing. And I said, I feel like you're creating a life without me. And she said, I have to, because you're not okay. That's exactly what has been happening with us.

There's so many things that I have done by myself with my son. I've had to take him out of the home and just do things on our own. Have you told your husband that? Yes, and he knows. We've gone to holiday dinners at relatives' house, and he stayed at home. We've gone to— Have you said the words to your husband in a private conversation, I don't want to do my life alone anymore.

I want you by my side. No. Okay. Not exactly in those words. Here's the deal, Carrie, you have to be that specific. And here's why I know, here's why I think you're crying, why it's terrifying. Cause he might say no, he might say I'm not doing it. But if you're like, Hey, are you going to this dinner? Hey, do you want to come play soccer with us? Hey, do you want to go out to the market with us? He's always going to say no. That anxiety is too strong. The depression is too strong.

Whatever's going on in his heart and mind is too strong. But if the woman he loves and the mother of his son sits down in front of him and says, I'm tired of doing my life by myself. I need you by my side. Whatever it takes for you to get well, I'm all in, but I'm not doing my life by myself anymore, or I'm going to do it all by myself. I don't want it to come to that. I know, Carrie, but you're there. And here's what happens inside this house. You start creating your own life. He knows it. His body feels it,

and he doesn't know what to do. And so what does he do? He just does his drugs, which is work more and work more, which makes you have to do more of your life. And you just, all of a sudden you wake up and you're five years later and you're sitting on the couch next to him and you're six inches apart, but you're 6,000 miles away from each other. Yeah. Right. I felt that before. I know. I know. I know. Here's the deal. You've heard me say this on the show. This is about turning all the lights on, turning the music off and saying the life we are co-creating together ends today. Will you build something new with me? And you have to be ready for him to say, no, I won't. And hopefully that's vulnerability, right? When you're vulnerable, like it's a cool buzzword, but you can get hurt when you're vulnerable. But I want to tell you, you're

getting hurt now. You're getting hurt now. You're slowly drowning. That's exactly what it feels like. Yeah. And I feel like it's not fair to our son who can absorb, absorbs everything. And I don't want him. Carrie, it's not fair to you either. It's not fair to your husband. It's not fair to anybody.

Yeah. Okay. Don't just do it for your son. Do it for your husband. Do it for you son Do it for your husband Do it for you Do it for this thing called marriage This thing y'all are building together I strongly recommend you don't do this on the back end of a fight Tell him

I want to have a long conversation I always tell people It kind of turned into a joke around here Like a meme around here But I always tell people to go to breakfast Because it's early in the morning And it's sunshine, you know, outside sometimes. And once people get to like nine o'clock, there's no more productive conversations happening. You can have a bunch of deep philosophical mumbo jumbo at two in the morning, but good deep conversations

happen when everyone's brain is clear. And so I recommend get a babysitter for your son and take your husband out and say, I'm taking you out. And we have to talk about some big picture stuff. Okay, stay on the line here. I'm gonna send you a copy of, I'm gonna send you both books. One is Own Your Past, Change Your Future. And that is about, okay, we're in ash.

What do we do now? How do we get here? And then what do we do now? And then my newest book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, that's a book you and your husband can read together about building a completely new life. And there's some choices y'all can make every day, every week, every month

about building something completely new. It will involve him getting the help he needs. But I wanna tell you, as someone who's been there, it took me a year with a guy named Randy and a guy named Slade, two guys that kept showing up for me. One guy in the weight room,

then we'd go to lunch. It took me that long. And then it took me getting a new job. And then it took me getting some new friends and into some confrontations before I ever went and saw a counselor. I didn't just race right into it. I didn't have that kind of courage.

I didn't even know the words to say. And then I got around some more friends and some more. It was a long, long walk, but I got healthier and healthier and healthier as I went. And then I had some big blowups, almost blew my marriage up. Kept going, kept going, kept going. Okay. So this isn't just a one and done deal. This is a journey y'all are heading on. Your husband's been through hell and back and you've been by his side every time. It's time for you to stop getting dragged behind the boat though. Take ownership of your life, of your son, of your home. Turn the lights on, stop the music and let him know the life we have co-created up until now, this one's over. I want to build something new, something where we're doing this together.

I hope with everything I have that you'll join me. I want to do this with you. Gary, call anytime. I'll be with you every step of the way. Call anytime. Let us know how that conversation goes. We'll be rooting for you. And if he wants to call me, I'd love to talk to him. Love to talk to him. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. And go figure, Kelly's out today, so there's no, like, mustache rock or Marlboro Reds. It was going to be either Taylor Swift or Paramore, and today we went with Paramore. Hey, Jenna, did you see that thing in Seattle? Oh, the earthquake from the show?

That it showed up on the Richter scale? Yeah, Rachel Cruz was there at that show. I know, and half of that thing was her screaming her head off. And the other half would have been me had I been there. I think that's kind of like not cool. You run her life. You produce her show. And she chose her husband over you.

That's so ridiculous. You know, I get it. There's always the Europe leg of the tour. If you go to Europe to see, that would be amazing if you did that. That would be pretty cool, actually. All right. Today's song of the day is by the great Paramore. The song's called Last Hope, and it goes like this. I didn't

even know myself at all. I thought I'd be happy by now, and the more I try to push it, I realize I gotta let go of control. Gotta let it happen. It's just a spark, but it's enough to keep me going when it's dark out, no one's around, it keeps glowing. Every night I try my best to dream. Tomorrow makes it better. And then I wake up to the cold reality and not a thing has changed, but it will happen. Gotta let it happen. Open your hands up. Jump. Thank y'all for being with us. See you soon.