The Dr. John Delony Show - It’s Been 6 Years and He’s Still Married to Her

Episode Date: April 12, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: -       A woman who’s been involved with a married man for the last five years -       A wife wondering if she should stay with her husband -     �� A woman unable to trust her husband Next Steps  📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or click here. 📚 Get Building a Non-Anxious Life. 📝 Take the Anxiety Test. 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation   Offers From Today's Sponsors ·      10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp   ·      3 free months of Hallow  ·      25% off Thorne orders  ·      20% off on Organifi products[KB1]    Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I have been unfortunately involved with a married man for the last six years. Michelle! Six years? What are you doing with him? I know. No, I get it. But, you know, we fall in love with the wrong people all the time, right? No, we don't. We don't. We don't. We have fantasies and mirages with the wrong people. Let's go. Let's go. What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, taking your calls

about marriage and relationships and dating and all sorts of insanity that's going on in our world. Your mental health, your emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. I'm going to sit with you, and we're going to figure out the next right step. Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com slash ask.

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It takes seven and a half seconds. Such a gift for us, man. All right, let's go out to Orlando and talk to Michelle. Ma, ma, ma, ma, Michelle. What's up, Michelle? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? Good. How are you? Well, my, my Michelle. What's up, Michelle? Hey, Dr. John. How are you? Good.

How are you? Well, I'm doing okay, but I've kind of gotten myself into a situation that I'm having trouble getting myself out of. So long story short, I have been unfortunately involved with a married man for the last six years. Michelle, six years? Yes. It's long-term.

Has he gotten caught yet? Well, yes. That's the crux of the thought of this, is that last year his wife discovered our affair, and I immediately, of course, told him, we need to end things. We need to go on our separate ways and he was very adamant you know that he did not want to do that he wanted another year so he could figure out his

marriage oh god what are you doing with him michelle i know no i i get it but you know we fall in love with the wrong people all the time right we know we don't we don't we don't we have fantasies and mirages with the wrong people all the time. True. Yes. And I have been very pragmatic about this whole relationship because I always knew it had an expiration date. What are you talking about? You're the least pragmatic person I've ever met. Six years? I know. Yes. That's not pragmatic. That is like rolling the dice for six years. You had a good run in Vegas, man, but geez. All right. So let me, so is his wife finally saying, screw you. And he's looking at you and he's like, no, it's our time. Uh, I don't know actually what he's, what, what is going on over there. I think that there's a lot, well, I mean, there's a lot of bitterness. This was, I did not break this man's

marriage. First of all, just to be clear like their marriage was on life support long before i came into the picture there had been infidelities on both of their sides michelle michelle michelle michelle michelle michelle let's just let let's not talk about them because they're not on the phone if they want to call in i'm all in okay you've been with a married man yes Yes. For six years. Correct. Correct. Yeah. You know that's, you know, that's like wrong at every level. And yeah, here we go.

Okay. So how can I help? How can I help? So I have tried to extract myself from this situation and I am getting guilt tripped and manipulated into staying every time I told him that, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. You know, he's like, I'm getting divorced. I'm going to get separated. You know, why would you, why in the world would you be married to him? Why would you consider like, what are you doing?

I don't, I would not, I don't know if I would marry the man, but we have been at this for a long time. And when you have somebody who you have a connection with that, I'm not young. I mean, I've dated. Dating is awful. But sometimes there's people that come into your life that even though it's the wrong situation, it's the right person. It's not. It's it's the right person. It's not. It's not. It's not. Man, there's so much to unpack here, but here's the thing. For those people who are listening, you can go back and listen to this, and I want you just to listen to Michelle. Here's what I know about you

because I can tell how the way you talk and your cadence, and I know this is going to sound like I'm crazy and like I'm like reading tea leaves. You are very, very smart, right? Right, correct. You have concocted a narrative that has made this okay for you

and your body is killing you on the inside because it knows. That's correct. Yes. And you can tell yourself because, man, I bet if you're not an attorney or some sort of high-level sales executive, I'd be shocked. Don't tell me. Are you one of those two?

I'm not actually, but that's okay. All right. Well, if your ability to craft, make something purple that is actually green, like your ability to do that is fantastic. It's phenomenal, right? It's a gift. It's a talent. And as Van Der Kolk says, your body's keeping the score.

It knows. And so this is not a romantic case of wrong time, wrong. If we could just go back. It's not. You're sleeping with a married man for six years. Right. And you can say, I didn't do anything to his marriage. You did.

You did. And more importantly, because they're not on the phone and they're not asking me about their marriage, you have become somebody that you don't respect or love or you wouldn't be calling. Correct. And so I'm more worried about you reclaiming your dignity. Who cares what this philandering, cheating, loser things?

He's run a parallel life for half a decade, if not longer. And you're assuming that you're the only one on the side. You're assuming that you're the only one on the side. Well, you're assuming that you're the only one on the side. Correct. Obviously, nobody knows really what goes on. Here's one thing I know about him. He's a lying sack of crap. And so to think that he wouldn't do that to you is quite a stretch.

Yes, I am aware of that. Like I do understand the realities of the situation. And also it's like, yeah, but not me. And I get that too. And that's a great self preservation. I am baffled as to why, and this is me, like just you and I have a nachos, okay? Hanging out, not judgment. I'm just being curious. I'm baffled as to how you could possibly care about him. I don't understand why you would feel guilty about just saying, I'm worth more than this. I feel like a lot of it has to do with just, you know, just the friendship that we've built over the last few years. It's like, I probably could deal with the separation of the, you know, emotional and that sort of thing. But the friendship is really, I think, the hardest part for me.

I get that. It's like, I mean, he's the, it's kind of like divorcing your best friend. Yeah, I get that. Is like, I mean, he's the, it's kind of like divorcing your best friend. Yeah, I get that. You know, obviously you need to do it. But the separation of just having someone leave my life that, you know, I've, you know, I had a relationship with is really the hardest part for me to come to terms with. I'm not even going to fault you on that. I think you're right. I think the looming loneliness is terrifying. Right. Correct. Yes, absolutely.

And you'll feel unplugged. And I cannot think of another way that you can be whole and reclaim your self-worth and dignity. Yes, yes, absolutely. Like, I agree. And, you know, I know that the separation and then the ending of it is just going to be super traumatic, you know, but inevitable. At some point, it's just going to have to, like, it's going to have to end, but just...

Well, let's run the numbers. Let's run the numbers. You're smart. And I'm sure you've Googled this. God, off the top of my head, man. I want to say 7%, but I may be off a little bit. Maybe it's as high as 15, but I think it's 7. That's the number that's coming to my mind.

And people can fact check me and just put it in the notes. 7% of relationships that begin as an affair, as infidelity, actually going to make it. It's a 93% failure rate. Right. Yes. That's not surprising to me. Because somebody who would violate their covenant

will violate their covenant. Right. Absolutely. History repeats itself. Always. I mean, always, always. Yes. And so even just, even just, if he was to go through and get divorced and finally be like, now we can be free to be together. You don't, I always, whenever I have, and by the way, I have this conversation a lot behind closed doors. I always say this in the most pushback I get on anything I tell somebody in this situation is, you don't really know that guy.

And it's always like, yes, we do. I've been together for six years. We've slept together. We've snuck away on vacation together. You don't know that guy. The 24-7, 365, the smells behind the smells, the grumpiness the hiding the like

and all that becomes very real right and it's hard to experience that on this side of the fantasy correct and by the way

when you end this like so here's what I'm I'm saying this ends in a it's already a tragedy it ends with

body parts. People get hurt more so than they already have. The only way out to preserve life at this point is to cut off everything. Everything ends with a screeching halt and you get out of the car and you walk. That's it. Yeah.

Yes. I agree. Like, obviously, the mind, you know, is way more powerful, but, uh, you know, coming to terms with that is very difficult. And yes, I certainly is what needs to happen. Um, and I just feel it. I don't know if, I guess maybe part of me feels like I'm letting him down, but I know I care about him. I know. Here's the thing. I have compassion for that dude too. And I know that people are going to be like, what?

Yeah, I think he sucks. I don't think he's making terrible choices, but God help him, dude. What kind of world has he grown up in, lived in that this is how he's chosen to get through his life? What madness. Right?

Oh, I do. I feel sorry for him too. Even if he continues his marriage. Yeah, I feel sorry for him. But hold on. He's chosen to stay. Right. That's a choice he has made. So I don't care how awful a picture he paints and, oh, she doesn't do this. I don't care. You stayed. You made a coven on the front end and you stayed. Right. I'm more worried about you. What happened to your dignity? like the person you looked at in

the mirror and was like this is the kind of woman i am it's kind of woman i'm gonna be where did she go yeah i think she just got swallowed up in a lot of this she gets scared lonely i mean where does she go of course yeah absolutely you know uh i think when you come out of a divorce on my end, you know, and then you meet somebody like this and you're like, Oh, it'll be casual. And then it turns into a lot more, you know, and then you just hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Can I call you out on that? It didn't just turn into it. Like you made some choices along the way. Oh, absolutely. Like I was, I take responsibility. Okay. All right. Absolutely. Oh Oh, absolutely. Like I take responsibility for the choices I make.

Absolutely. Oh yeah, absolutely. Like I'm not innocent in any of this by any means. Like I don't, I certainly don't think that I was, you know, sidesliped by any of this. I mean, yes, it was a conscious choice that I made to embark on this relationship. Can you go back to, can you go back to the Michelle right before?

Like when he invited you, like, hey, come over, here's my hotel. Or my wife's out of town. Can you go back to her and write her a letter? I could, yes. And say this ends in ash. Both relationally, a marriage destroyed. Both in a friendship, like a deep friendship that happens over the course of half a decade. Gone.

Just vanished like a vapor. And in who I knew myself to be. It's gone. Because you're going to have to rebuild trust in you. And that's going to be hard. Way harder than finding new friends. Right. Yes.

There's a lot of rebuilding. Yeah. You did things that you didn't think you were going to do if you go back to her and say don't go don't go it's enticing you're lonely you're on the back end of a divorce it's scary you're never going to find love again all those stupid stories correct I mean if I had to look back at this

and the situation I would never have started this to begin with. Of course, of course you wouldn't. Hindsight is 20-20, right? Of course you wouldn't. You know, never would I have done this. And we'll never ever do this again. Are there kids involved? Yeah, but I don't trust you yet because you don't trust you yet. I have a daughter who's graduated from college, but he has children that are still in the teenager, you know, age. Have you met them? Oh, no, no, no, no. There's been no, no, it's been very secret. This entire relationship has been, my daughter knows him, but she does not know, obviously, that he's married. And his children are none the wiser.

Like they, they, I've never met his children at all. I mean, the only people that know about this are you, me, his wife, and him at this point. And a couple million listeners. Well, yeah, that too. Yes, absolutely. Yes. So, yeah. So, no, children involved, yes, on his end.

But, you know, which is why I think that, you know, obviously men have trouble moving towards divorce because they don't want to lose their children. They don't want to lose their money and all of those things. Hey, listen. He's already lost everything. Yeah. His kids, whether they know about you, they know that he's never fully with them. Right. you they know that he's never fully with them right unless he's like a psychos unless he's psychotic he can't balance a full-time affair plus a full-time home plus teenagers plus a wife

and clearly dysfunctional marriage plus whoever else he's texting on the side or whatever their websites he's on the side they know daddy's sitting in that couch right there but he's texting on the side, or whatever their website is, he's on the side. They know daddy's sitting in that couch right there, but he's not with us. Yeah. They know. Right. Yeah.

I mean, kids are smart. Yeah. Real, real smart. Yes. Absolutely. And so the only path forward I know is a very unceremonious. Yeah. Like, hey, this is the last communication you're ever going to get from me.

I have a friend who did this. It's a male friend. So it wasn't like a breakup or anything like that. But he said, like, it's been a good run. And I've got to make some changes in my life. And so this is the last you're ever going to hear from me. And it's somebody that I was super close to. I've never talked about publicly.

And hit send. And I got the note. I wrote back and it bounced back and it broke my heart and kind of like the end of goodwill hunting when Ben Affleck says I hope I just come over to your house and you're not there like it was that kind of well good on you man but the only way forward, because if you do, dude, he's good. He's kept you around for six years. Uh-huh. Yeah. You're never going to hear from me again. I wish you the best.

This is it. Have a good one. And delete everything, block everything. Everything changes. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, 100%. You know. And then you're going to have to go see somebody and be in the wreckage of your character and integrity and dignity because it's in pieces on the floor of your house. Yes, absolutely.

Yes. It's going to be tough moving forward. I'm sorry. Yeah, it's okay. I did this to myself. Hold on. It's not, it's not,

it's not okay in any part of this, but I will tell you this. Um, I do, I do hope that, I hope that you're able to make this clean break and I hope you're willing to care about you as much as I do. Thank you. Okay.

Thank you. Yeah. I'm not going to beat you up because you know, and I know, right? Sure. But you also know this can't keep going. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Without a doubt.

So will you call me back in 30 days and let me know what it's like not being able to breathe? Yes, I will be. Hopefully I will have a good story for you nope as the no it's gonna be a terrible story yeah well like it there's not a happy ending here true there's a controlled car wreck and there is a like a pile up on the highway with a lot of deaths in it yes absolutely but there's there's no happy ending. Right. No. And I've obviously been coming to terms with that.

Like, I have been, like, over the course of the last six months, I knew that this is where it's kind of heading. And, you know, I'm just getting up enough courage, I think, to, like, end things for good. I've given it to you. You're good. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right. It's time.

Make the call today. Make the call. Just be done. Oh, John, I can't do that. You can. You can. And by the way, anybody out there who found themselves in a situation that they feel like just the train got going too fast and it's heading down the track and you can't stop it. You can. You can. I promise you can't stop it. You can. You can. I promise you can. Is it going to be painful? Yes. Is it going to be hard?

Yes. Is it going to be lots of rebuilding trust? Yes. But you can. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. I am just super excited to announce I'm hitting the road with my buddy Dave Ramsey this spring on a brand new tour, just us two. And we're putting a new twist on this thing. We're going to

talk about money. We're going to talk about relationships and we're going to tell stories y'all have never heard before. It's going to be an incredible fun night, but every night is going to be totally different because you, the audience are going to help choose what we talk about. You heard that right. It's going to be like no event you, the audience, are going to help choose what we talk about. You heard that right. It's going to be like no event you've ever been to. We're kicking it off in Louisville on April 21st, 2025. And then we're going to Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, and then Kansas City. You're going to laugh.

You're going to learn. And if we do our jobs right, you're going to change your life. Get your tickets for the Money in Relationships Tour today at RamseySolutions.com slash tour. All right, let's go out to North Carolina and talk to Madison. Hey, Madison, what's up? Hey, Dr. John. Well, I separated from my husband last week. Oh, man.

What happened? It's really hard to explain because I don't really understand it. We've been married a couple of years, but through our whole relationship, over time, he just, like, we started having, like, intimacy problems, and the distance between us just grew, and I couldn't, I still don't really understand why, but. When you say intimacy problems, like, was it a sexless marriage, or he was making you uncomfortable? Like, what was the, give me some of the roots of that intimacy challenge. When we first got together, he was very, he pursued me sexually. He was the pursuer. And then after three months, about three to maybe six months, that kind of like slowed down a little bit.

And I interpreted that as kind of like slowed down a little bit. And I interpreted that as kind of like more performance issues or maybe low testosterone. And he was never... He's a very quiet man. So from my perspective, I felt like he was never seemed as motivated as I would expect to try to find a solution it just it just didn't fit any of the typical boxes of what I would expect so he kind of went for it the first couple of months y'all were married and then it didn't play out like he wanted he just quit and you were expecting him to like dude's gonna want to fix that and he's just like i'm good i'll play video games yes yes and and just over time it just would be a three months between the times we would have sex and i would try to talk about it and we would have conversations where I would feel like we would be on the same page. And then things got, it just never, I can't even explain. It just never got better.

It just kept getting worse. And so did y'all ever see anybody? We did go to couples counseling. Um, and then he started going to counseling separately, I ended up, I just think there's something wrong here that I don't understand that is making... What did your couples counselor say? He wasn't great, to be honest he he was trying to be very encouraging um and john just my husband um just didn't want to deal with the problem he didn't i felt like i was doing all the

carrying and trying to solve this and it felt like he would have a conversation with me, but wasn't motivated, I guess. Um, so then he, he saw his therapist for, um, he's, he's seen her weekly for probably about, gosh, probably like four months now. Um, but about six weeks ago, but I wasn't hearing anything about what was happening and I was asking and I wasn't really getting anything. And about six weeks ago, I just was like, hey, I don't know what's happening, but I can't keep doing this. I'm exhausted. And you have to give me hope. That was the conversation I had.

Give me something from your therapy. Give me hope. And he went and saw a therapist the next week and she said he had something called like avoidant, no dismissive avoidant attachment. Avoidant attachment. Good God. And all right. So, I mean, so, so that may made I googled that and that made sense in a way of it got the the closer I felt like we got the further away he got from me but hold on a second hold on a second all all attachment disorders not disorders

all attachment right um avoidant attachment anxious attachment all those things and I've talked to Adam Lane Smith

who's like the attachment goat right and I may even have him on the show one day like he's all they are is your body's

way of responding to tough relational situations especially when you're young it creates a roadmap and they are not personality disorders they're not neurological disorders they're just it's biochemistry it's the way your body learns to handle a problem and what that means is your body can learn another way to do it right they're adaptive is the nerd word they're adaptive which means your body can learn another way to do it. Right? They're adaptive is the nerd word. They're adaptive, which means your body can adapt to something else. You have to want to.

This isn't, your husband's not stamped in stone. Right. It sounds like, and this is hard to say, it sounds like he doesn't want to be married to you. Yeah. I,

I have realized. Does he have the courage to say that? No, he sure doesn't. What a coward. Why? Why is he putting you through that? He, I almost have this cognitive dissonance of this version of him that I adore and I look at as someone who has things that are hard for him.

We all do. Hold on. We all have things that are hard for us. Right. And then there's the version where I finally have to look at the sum of his actions. Right. Behaviors of language. Yeah. Yeah. I have, like, I have ADD. I got diagnosed as an adult. I really view a lot of things as conquerable as you come up with a system. Yeah. Good for you. You know, you can change your life. You know what that makes you?

A functioning adult. Good on you. Good on you. I mean, that's awesome. That's good for you. It's been so confusing to me to feel like in my heart, I have all this compassion for him. And in my head, I have all this frustration with him.

Let me clear the confusion up, okay? And I don't know if you're asking for that, so tell me to stop if you don't want me to. The confusion, I think, lies here. You love this guy and you want to be married to him and you haven't come to terms with you haven't chosen reality he does not want to be married to you and i think there's a huge and i'm saying that that directly because i care about you there's got to be an exhale at the end

of that sentence oh crap you're right because you've sought professional help on multiple different, different, in different places. And the proper response to a dismissive avoidant attachment style is, well, that's not going to do in a marriage. Right. Let's go, let's, let's go figure this thing out. Awesome. There is a ton of resources out there. Not, well, sweet. And I've got an excuse. I don't have to be with this person. And then by the way, the way, and I use the word coward intentionally.

The way cowards who won't just tell the truth and they're watching somebody that they, that loves, they know loves them, just starve to death at the end of the line. Just drown with no flotation device. The reason I call him cowards is because he's going to make you, you're the one that separated and that makes himself righteous.

My wife left me. Right. He cuts off all the oxygen in the room and then he points his finger at you because you walked out the door so you could breathe. I'm sorry that I did that to you. The, the, the situation I'm in right now is that when we decided to separate,

he, the conversation was, I knew I could not, you know, like you said, I had to go get oxygen and he was going to work with his therapist. And I mean, he's classic, like, like he doesn't like to do hard things. He's not, you know, like I have to push him to get anything. And so he was going to go work with his therapist and we were going to, why won't he work with you? Why won't he work with you? I get working with a therapist and yada, yada,

yada. He's been going to therapy for two years. And I know he's not, he's not on the phone right now, so I'm asking that question to the wind, right? But for everybody out here listening to this, at some point, your spouse has to look across the table and say, I need this from you. I want this from you.

I want you. And you have to decide, I got to to work on my or okay, I'm going to go for it. See what I'm saying? There's like a tenacity. I'm going to go to hell and back for you. I'm going to run through brick walls. And if I get to a brick wall that I can't go through, we're going to hold hands and we're going to go back and get some skills with a therapist. And then we're both going to run through this thing again. It's not a matter of you putting things on the table and him being like, I don't know. I think

I need to go to my counselor and talk about it. You know what I mean? And I hate to bag on him with him on the phone. It pisses me off that I'm mad at myself for even this, but it's so pervasive right now in this video game culture. And I'm just hearing wife after wife after wife dying on the other end of these relationships. I'm so sorry. God almighty, I'm so sorry. I will tell you, Dr. John, I'm not a perfect person, but I've been a really great wife.

Hey, listen, here's where, okay, and you're, I'm so grateful for you because you're like, you're laying it out for me. When somebody really loves their partner, their husband, wife, fiance, girlfriend, whatever you want to say, they really love them. And that person plays cat and mouse with their heart, with their soul. What that person does, because you're a person of character, you're a person of integrity, and you're a person who said, I made a covenant to be with you for the end of time. You end up going to the mirror all day going, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? What's wrong with me?

Yeah. And I'm telling you right now, nothing. Are you perfect? No. Do you have some crazy in you? Of course you do. We all do. Are there some things you need to work on? Of course. We all do. Me, I'm in the front of that line.

But are you the reason this marriage has fallen underwater? No. So how do I the moment I'm at right now is through his own, it's his own fault. And I know it, you know, he has, he does not have strong friendships with the friends in his life. He's alone. Um, logically I know that's not my responsibility and I know that right now, so right now he's, he's trying to reconnect, you know, and I've only been out of the house a week now and he didn't care about that three weeks ago when he insisted on selling our house, But now he cares because he's lonely.

And logically, I know that. And the other part of me is I'm trying to decide where to... I don't know how to... where to put up my boundaries in case... Because I've told him, at this point of where I'm at, he needs to go figure out how to be a grownup man. And if he can figure out how to be a grownup man, he can come back and talk to me about,

and when he can come tell me what he did wrong, you know? Well, so the whole thing has been cast into a parent-child relationship. Let's get out of that. Absolutely. You're not his mom. Okay. Right.

Instead of focusing on what he needs to be out there doing, I want you to focus on, here's what I'm worth. Here's what I need. And I want to give you some freedom. He has not been a person of fidelity in his marriage. Okay? Okay. He's violated his a person of fidelity in his marriage. Okay. Okay.

He's violated his marriage covenant with you. Did he go sleep with somebody? No. Did he violate his covenant to you? Yes. And so you have said, I'm stepping out of this situation. I'm going out where I can breathe.

Good for you. Very important when you take this step is here's a date and a time that we're going to get back together and communicate. And we're not going to communicate until then. Otherwise... How long? How long do you think that should be? You know, when it's about someone's being verbally abusive or they've created an unsafe environment, I think 30 days is good. I think you're at a 30-day place.

Okay. And let him know, we're going to meet in this restaurant at this time and I'll pick up the check. That's kind of a, it's kind of like a passive-aggressive flex, but I like it.

But it's letting him know, I'm in charge of me now. Yeah. And when you say, I need you to come back and be a grown man, you need to be really clear about what that looks like. You need to have a job. You need to be contributing a full-time job. And or you need to be back in school full-time job or, and, or you need to be back in school full time. You need to show some sort of medical or psychological intervention on your

sexual dysfunction. And I'm not blaming him just saying, Hey, that needs to be, that needs to be priority. Number one, how are we coming back together here? Yeah.

Cause he's choosing shame and he together here yeah because he's choosing shame and he's choosing and he's choosing to hide from a challenge he he acts he when we went to couples therapy he um he thought that like buying me flowers more should mean that i i there was no longer an expectation that we have sex in our marriage yeah like there's not a there's a break with reality yes or yes there's something very wrong i i think that what you just said is exactly right he has not lived in reality i would love to talk to him about how he grew up but my guess is the whole world did everything for him yeah and what he did was he married another mother. And that's not, I mean, that's the least erotic thing in the world, right?

Yeah. And so I think it's you being very clear about here's the life I'm going to lead moving forward. The marriage y'all had is over. He can pursue you like the hounds of hell and chase you down and let you experience, not through running his mouth, let you experience. I get it now. I got a long way to go, but I am going to learn how to be the man and husband that you deserve. Period. And by the way, that starts with me looking across the table and looking you dead in the eye and letting you know, I want you, I desire you, and I'm going to figure this thing out.

Is ED real? Of course it's real. Do people deal with that? Of course they do. But you go figure it out. You go meet with whoever you need. So what do I do? You say, I'm not responding to you anymore until this date, at this time.

Yeah, well, what happens if we do that, we get there? Then you ask, how are we doing? If he's, if he, if he, if he, if he, I'm afraid that he'll have assets. I could almost guarantee you he will because he's never faced a consequence in his life. Right. And what he's choosing is I'm choosing to not work more than I'm choosing her. And that's all the info you need. Yeah. And is that info

going to break your heart? God, yes. Is that info going to be devastating? Yes. But that info is going to be true. Yeah. And if you listen to the show, I want nothing more than reconciliation

in every marriage possible. And I think 99% of the time it's possible. Do I want y'all to stay together and have an awesome marriage and this thing? Of course I do. But I don't want you to carry the entire wagon train through the mud, always asking yourself,

why aren't you working hard enough? And this whole thing drags into the ground and it collapses. Because he's going to hop off the wagon train and just go find another mother. And you're going to be stuck in the mud like millions and millions of other women. I'm just done with it.

And I have some like some sympathy Because he's been told his whole life. Let mommy clear the plate for you Men are the problem with everything you just sit there and i'll pat you on the head And so I feel bad because he's been poisoned his mind's been poisoned As to thinking what masculinity looks like what his responsibilities as a husband looks like how to go get a job And get off the video games all that crap, you know what I mean? But he's gonna have to learn that. And unfortunately,

some people don't learn that until they're married and there's some serious, serious consequences. Like he runs into a Madison who's an amazing woman and an amazing wife who says,

I'm worth more than this. I'm not doing this. But brass tacks, I would be specific. I'm blocking your number. I'm not going to answer your text and your calls for 30 days. You've been apart for a week, so okay, I would be specific. I'm blocking your number. I'm not going to answer your text and your calls for 30 days. You've been apart for a week, so okay, for 21 more days.

We're going to meet at this restaurant at this time. Here's my expectations. If you haven't met those expectations, I'm going to unblock your number. An hour before, just text me and we're going to skip the lunch. If you don't have a job, if you're not, I mean, and by the way, I'm not talking about a career at this point. That will come, but you got to have a job, if you're not, I mean, and by the way, I'm not talking about a career at this point. That will come, but like you got to have a job. If you're not enrolled in school or you don't have the application process cooking, if you don't have fill in the blank, a doctor, I don't want to say a doctor's note, but you are not sitting in doctor office and psychologist office and trying to figure stuff out.

Or here's the other thing. He can also be a person of character. No, he won also be a person of character not no he won't be a person of character be a person of integrity he can look you in the eye and say i'm not attracted to you i don't be married to you that will pull your soul out because you want this thing to work and i applaud that but at least he would tell you the truth and i want you to communicate in whatever way you need to you are in control and here's what you expect and then if he comes in he's got a he's got a job he's got all the stuff all the things that you lay out great then he has earned back the right to start dating his wife again this isn't we all move back into the same big big no now he gets to show you how he's going to pursue you

and you're not going to be spiteful you're not his mom you're going to continue to be an awesome wife but he gets to pursue you and you're going to build something new with him by the way he gets to put on the table here Here's what he needs. Cool. That's fine. This is tough. I'm sorry, sweetheart. I'm sorry. Let me know how that meeting goes in a few weeks. I would love to hear how it goes. Hang on the line.

I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life and Own Your Past, Change Your Future. This is my gift to you. Both those books I think would help you in particular as you kind of walk through this fog. Don't give up, but also be super clear about what you want and what you need. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks.

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All right, we're back. Let's go out to, I always get this wrong, Minneapolis. Minneapolis and talk to Valerie. Hey, Valerie, what's up? Oh, not much. How are you, Dr. John? I'm having the time of my life. How about you? I'm living the dream.

Awesome. I'm running a scam called a podcast in a YouTube show. It's so great. Yeah, I would love to run that type of scam too. It's the best. It's the best. So how can I help? I want to know how... I don't know what to ask for to regain.

I don't know how to ask my husband for, to regain, to trust him again. What happened? What broke that trust? Oh, it hasn't happened. He has never cheated on me. So you put that out there. But secretly videotaping us having sex was one of the things, without my knowledge. Yeah, that's a thing. That is a thing.

And it was a long time ago. A long time ago. That you know of. Right. And that was a long time ago. That you know of. Right. And that was a long time ago. How'd you find out? Well, he showed me. He showed me.

He showed me. And I was back when we were dating. You know, I was so blown away. I mean, he showed me. And I'm like, I actually got up and went and threw up. I was so... And then you married him? Yeah, I actually got up and went and threw up. And then you married him? Yeah, I know. Well, he said all the right things.

He said, I don't, well, A, I said, is this what you need to do? Is this something you need to do? Because I'm not into this, you know? He was like, nah, I was just playing. It's cool. I've never done this before i don't know blah blah blah and i'm like okay what are you gonna do i i'll go get help i'm well okay well you're saying all the right things to me all right so keep going he uh secretly videotaped you

in a super intimate moment that you didn't know about okay what else right and so we got married and over the years he's given me i have the house in my name even though we're both kind of on the deed if that that makes sense um he had he had another home but during that time that was his home we got this one together um this is both of us second marriage for us. And does he still have another home? No, it's sold now. Thank God. Um, it was a whole mess, but it ended up being, uh, just never, you know, like I told him when we got this, I said, I can't support this house by myself with how much it costs.

No worries. I got it. I got you. Don't worry. Right. Well, then every paycheck I had to ask him, I need to get money from you. And that's only recently changed in the last year and a half. When he was your husband? Yeah. Yeah. I had to ask money from you. And that's only recently changed in the last year and a half. When he was your husband?

Yeah. Yeah. I had to ask him for money to help support this house. That's only, like I said, only changed recently where now he just gives me the money, you know, where I could pay bills. Oh, what a sweetheart. I make more money than him. So what? Do you all not combine your incomes together?

No. No. Why? Well, like I said, he had his bills. I had my bills at the beginning. That means y'all are just running like a, y'all have a lawn business. Yeah. Y'all share a bed.

Y'all aren't married. Well, I've tried. I mean, when we first got married, I said, here you go. You want to do all the bills? That'd be great. You know, I tried that. And all of a sudden I was getting past due notices and everything. And I said, you know, I'm not very comfortable.

I know it can be taxing trying to do two homes. Why don't I just take over this house? I just wanted things in my name to be paid, you know? And he just kept the other ones then. That's how it split up, you know, at that point. And then when he sold it, it just kind of rolled in down that way. So how can I help you now? I'm trying to understand and help know how I can get trust in him again.

Like, I mean, he's done so much. I mean, that's just the iceberg. You know, the things I said, whether it's perception, deception, or an outright lie, this is where I have problems. And I'm not a nagger at all. Like, I'll say, hey, can you fix the faucet? And yeah. And six, seven months later, hey, did you ever fix that faucet downstairs? Oh, no, I was waiting for you to nag me on it.

And I'm like, you're an adult. I don't nag. You said you're going to fix it. I let it go, you know. I have a very similar conversation with my 13 year old yeah exactly i get it so are you his mom more than his wife i don't want to be that way i don't allow i don't i just walk away i don't tolerate that and like we have family meetings because I have three children here too. So we have family meetings. And the recent one is, I've done it when I was a single mom, I did family meetings

saying, Hey guys, what's working this week? What's going on? You know, since my kids were little, it just helped all of us to connect five kids, you know. Will he not do them with you? No, he did. He does. And, you know, we said, okay, I'm tired of recently certain things aren't getting done. And I said, well, I'm not going to go to each person to find out who did this. I'm going to just take a picture and send it to the group text.

And you all can just take care of it. You don't have to explain it. You don't have to do anything. Just take care of it. We are adults now. Take care of it, right? So recently I did that. I took a picture and I sent it and his response to the group is OMG. It was his thing. And all my kids were just like, wow, that was not cool. And he later apologized. I should have disrespected you in front of the kids. I said, actually, it's more of a bad mark on you, not me. You know what I mean? Yeah, the whole thing just felt feels syrupy just like quagmirey syrupy swampy

you know what i mean like like i'm gonna send a text message with a picture and i'm gonna do like a like a smart a response to it and then we're all gonna go oh and oh my gosh and the whole thing just is it it sounds like it made the whole interactions all that sounds like my middle school son with his middle school friends and so when it comes back to like building trust i think you have to start in the mirror with you being very, very clear. Here's what I need and here's what I want in this home. Because here's the thing. Y'all are collectively deciding what this home is going to feel like.

You get to decide that. You get to choose it. And he can decide, I don't really want to be a part of it. I don't want to participate in it. I want the whole thing to burn down. Cool. Sheesh, well, y'all got to deal with that. But the passively, I'm just waiting for you to complain about it,

and I'm just waiting for you to not do anything. I'll just send you a photo of it because I don't even want to talk about it. I don't even care. But you do care. It's just the whole thing. So it's about y'all two getting away, not with the kids, y'all two, and say, what kind of freaking marriage do we want to have? An erotic one, a fun one, a hilarious one,

one with warmth, one with laughter, one with joy. What do we want? What do we want? We get to pick. We get to decide. And if we want those things, here's what I need. What do you need? Let's put all that crap on the table.

All of it. Lights on. What do we need? You don't tell me the truth. You hide money. All of our money is going into a single checking account. We're going to pay bills together. Not my bills and your bills.

We're going to pay bills together every Sunday night or every Saturday morning or every Wednesday morning. I don't care when it is. We're going to pay bills together so we both know where the money is. We're both going to look at, okay, this much went to retirement. This much is in our savings account.

This much is in our emergency fund. This much is in the replace the front porch fund or whatever the thing is, but we're going to build this thing together. I'm not going to text you anymore. We're going to meet every week and I'll have a list. Hey, can you fix this? Can you fix this?

Because one of the things I need is I need you to take ownership of the broken things in the house. I am making the majority of the money. Cool. Here's how, what I need for you when, when you're the, since you're running the home, all we're just going to put on the table and no more of this. I don't know. I just can't, we're going to boom. Here it is. And then he may say, I'm not doing that. And that's the underlying issue in the relationship. And that's what y'all got to work through. Or he may say, thank God you gave me a roadmap to your heart and to this home. I'm all in, but it all starts with everybody being super, super clear. No kids at the table, just him.

And if he, while y'all were dating took a video of y'all being having sex and showed it to you And you threw up and you got sick about it and y'all talked through it And he's like I won't do that anymore and y'all went to met with a counselor about it and then you got married That's over You choosing to bring that back up this many years later is you choosing just to throw an old ingredient into the pot and then be upset about the taste of the stew. Y'all went through it.

You healed. We're moving on. I can't keep bringing this thing up because you chose to stay in the relationship under these new set of rules. Cool, here we are. And if you feel like, well, I think he's being sketchy again,

bring that up. I think he may be videotaping us again. Bring that up. I think there's videos.y again. Bring that up. I think he may be videotaping us again. Bring that up. I think there's videos. I want to see your phone. I want to see your computer, your secret files on your computer. Bring that up.

But to bring up all the stuff that y'all have worked through together, you chose to get married, you chose to heal from, just to keep bringing it back on the table, it's not helping create a home with peace in it. And I can imagine, I did some stupid, I never did that. I did some stupid stuff when I was dating.

I said dumb things when I was 19, 20, 21 years old. God help me. I was 23, 25, 30. And my wife and I worked through them. We healed from them. In some situations, got the help that we needed. And then we've gone this way, moved forward. And that's just part of the healing process.

So I think it just needs a good old-fashioned, turn the lights off, turn the music off. Here's what we need. What's the state of things? Let's choose reality. Let's take an inventory. How are we? And we're not good.

And let's start there. Thanks for the call, Valerie. Appreciate you. Wish you guys the best. Hey, when we come back, we've got a, what is it? Am I the problem? Am I? Yes, you are, Kelly.

We'll be right back. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good. Thorne is one of our longest standing partners on this show, and it's because I trust them, I use them, I read their research papers, and I know their products are great and that my fans will love them too. Here's the deal with supplements. There's so, so much garbage out in the marketplace. And other than my admitted gummy candy problem, I'm pretty freakish about what I put in my body. And that's why I trust my health and the health

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All right. This is from Teresa. She said, I need a male's professional opinion as this is an ongoing feeling and thought I've had over the past few years. I'm a professional YouTuber, so let's just be clear about what I'm professional. She just says professional. She didn't say professional what? That's right. I'm a professional- Something. Yip yapper. Go for it. All right. I'm a professional guitarist and don't button all day.

Good job. Good job, Ben. I think we're playing fast and loose with the word professional there. I think you're correct. All right. We did not get paid because we lose every year. All right. Is it appropriate, or let's see here. Is it appropriate for my husband's father to call me sexy? No. No. I'm assuming he thinks this is a compliment.

Honestly, it makes my skin crawl and makes my stomach drop. Mine too. It feels so cringy. Mine too. Makes me uncomfortable and it makes my blood boil. It just flat out creeps me out. Mine too. Mine too. father-in-law over the past years. Now when my husband uses the term, it makes my skin crawl. I want to talk to my husband about it before it happens again, but I think,

before I possibly snap at his father, but unfortunately, I think he's going to lash out at me and get defensive and say I'm thinking about it in the wrong way. There's only one way to think of, hey, you look sexy. And that is,

ew. Ew. Ew. Ew. I cannot imagine my father-in-law saying that to me. Here's what would happen. If my dad said that to my wife, my wife would say something along the lines of, you're disgusting.

I'm leaving. Or, that's gross. Don't ever say that again what's the matter with you and that would be a tame response that would be justified but i think she needs to have two conversations one with her husband hey if your dad ever tells me i'm sexy again i'm leaving the house because it makes me want to vomit oh you're just i don't care what rebuttal you have i'm just telling you what i'm going to do and the next time somebody says sexy or he father-in-law i would look him dead in the eye and say that's gross the only man who should call me sexy is your son don't say that anymore or i'm gonna leave and he's the one making it awkward

not you we often think that the person who drew the boundary is like oh my gosh you made it so awkward no i didn't you with your huggy hands or your i just want to feel how firm that butt is or you're so sexy daughter-in-law gross am i crazy yes but not about this great answer you could look you could say you could say um you could say somebody's beautiful you could say you look Really nice you can Say oh my you look amazing All Those are compliments to say I Am appreciating your beauty right

It's that word you look Sexy Nothing with the word sex in it No should happen There Or that makes me Think of that music that we used to play before that one segment.

What was that music? I have no idea. Yeah, the mustache Marlboro Man music. Oh, the Camaro music. Camaro music. That's what makes me think of that.

That's a great... That... That is a father-in-law that looks at his daughter-in-law and says, you're sexy. That's the music

playing in the background. Gross on a stick. With a pony and a box of farts. Yuck. Don't. No. No. Only.

Only husband. Guys, here's the good news. We're going to be employed forever. We're going to be employed forever. We're always going to have a job. Because there's people. Father-in-laws. Who people, father-in-laws, who tell their daughter-in-laws, hey, baby, gross.

Don't be gross. Jeez. See you soon. See you soon. See you soon.