The Dr. John Delony Show - Ken Coleman on Meaningful Work, Fatherhood, & Owning Mistakes

Episode Date: August 4, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode   John interviews Ken Coleman and they discuss meaningful work, fatherhood, owning mistakes, and Ken's new book From Paycheck to Purpose. Lyrics of the Day: "The Dance" - Garth Brooks   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: workplace/career, parenting, (INTERVIEW)   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Hey, what's up on today's show? I have my good friend and radio host, Ken Coleman, talking about work that matters, talking about parenting, being dads, how we don't know what we're doing, what we still carry from our own fathers, and so much more. Stay tuned. I'm glad to have you, man. Hey, I'm glad to hang out with you, man. I always enjoy hanging out with you.

You're my desk mate. We sit three to four feet away from each other. That's kind of fun. I know. And this is cool. What most people don't know is we record the John Deloney Show in the Ken Coleman studio.

That's not true. It's Studio B. It's Studio B. It's Studio B. But it's been Ken Coleman's studio for like several years now. Nah, it's been Dave Ramsey's massive complex with some really awesome studios where Ken gets to play every day. That's right. That's how that works.

But yeah, man, you and I both- I'm glad to have you on this side of the desk, man. Listen, I'm so glad to be with you. I'm so proud of you, man. I mean, you've come in, I mean, talk about changing worlds and just jumping into live broadcasting and tape broadcasting. We're figuring it out live, man. And you're doing such good. You're helping so many people. You know, I mean, I've been, I've been watching it, you know, this whole Ramsey personality thing and this whole content

development thing and helping people. It's really unique. And it's unique because of the content, because of the audience, because of the person who's kind of driving it. And it's unique because of the content because of the audience because of the person who's kind of driving it and it's been really fun yeah to watch you come in and man there are so many hurting people and it's just unbelievable how you're just loving on people and helping people man so it's it's been fun to watch and uh you know we we're very different people but we share a lot of the same values yeah that's what i what I love, dude. And we love people. Yeah, man. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So it's really cool to be here, man. This is fun. So what I like to do on the show when we have interviews is get behind the guy. Okay. Right? Oh, boy. And there's something cool going on. So before we get in there, I want you to tell everybody.

And hey, here's the thing. For the listeners here, we write books. We put out content. We put out shows. We put out a lot of books here. And here at Ramsey Solutions, they sold millions and millions of books. Oh, yeah. Dave has. Dave has, yeah.

Rachel has. Christy Wright has. But there's a lot of buzz on your new project yeah well we're so tell me about what in the world you're doing with this brand new book that's coming out well the title pretty much describes it from paycheck to purpose and the sentiment is simply this there is this dominant world view that views work as this thing we do to live, right? If we enjoy it for a little bit, that's gravy. But we work to live, basically to take care of the basics. If there's a little leftover for some memories on vacation, things like that, then that's great.

And I just don't believe that's the case, and neither does Ramsey Solutions. And we're really coming at it from a very different worldview. We're flipping it, and we basically believe that you live to work. Now, that just freaked a lot of people out, so I'm going to explain that because it's not exactly like it sounds. If I said you were created to work, it would feel yuck. But if I said you were created to contribute, I think you'd start to go, okay. I'm in. I'm in.

So basically what I believe is that we can just break down the human race when it comes to purpose to two major areas, relational purpose and professional purpose. I say relational purpose first on purpose because we are created to connect first and foremost. So you and I have purpose in our relationships, in our particular relationship roles, husband, father, son, friend, teammate, on and on and on and on. But we also have professional purpose. And what I mean by that is I think it's really obvious that we all long to make a difference in the world. And so we do that in our relationships, so relational purpose and professional. And so I'm helping people realize, hey, there's more to work than the nine to five, the 401k. There is real purpose, whether you're a plumber, a professor, it doesn't matter if you're a missionary or you are a nuclear physicist. All work can be and should be honorable. That's the

whole point. That's the whole point. That's everything I believe. That's what the whole show's about. So the idea is that this isn't working for worth. That's all about us. It's about working to contribute. That's about everybody else. So when a teacher shows up,

and whether she has a bad day or not, but she does a really good job, she may feel like she had a really crappy day, but she made the difference in the life of a second grader in ways that she may never know. There's purpose in our work. It's about showing up to give yourself away. So I say this very simply, you were created to fill a unique role in your work. You were needed. That means you're valuable. And that means you must do it. Somebody needs you to show up and be the best version of you to use the talents that God gave you to actually do work that creates a result that makes other people's lives better.

So I'm sitting there either I got laid off after the crazy last few years and I'm just cobbled together 17 different gigs trying to make it work. I'm just sitting at home collecting a check. I am, you and I just hosted another radio show a little while ago together. I'm a martyr. I'm just going to sit here in this dead-end job You and I just hosted another radio show a little while ago together, A Martyr. I'm just going to sit here in this dead-end job because it's in the town that I'm comfortable in or that my wife is comfortable in or my husband is comfortable in, whatever. What you just said is profound, and I want all the listeners to get that. And I have a list of questions we're going to talk about, but we're already off list, and we're at question number one.

Yeah, that's what the book is about. Yeah, that's it. How do you find that work? How do you find it? What do you do? And then how do you get there yeah that's what the book is about that well yeah that's it how do you find that work how do you find it what do you do and then well then how do you get there that's what the book is about but so i i bet i've applied to a thousand jobs in my life i got addicted to applying for jobs because i thought that the cure to my lack of feeling like i was contributing to anything like i was making the money that I felt I was entitled to, which is a whole other nonsense. It's for another show.

But I kept thinking that my completion was somewhere out in another job. And what you just said was, all work is on. It's going to look, it's going to be me. What am I going to bring to this thing? And I'm going to stop beating up on the external, and I've got to deal with the internal.

Yeah, it's not about your salary. It's about the significant contribution you make. You know, whether you're making a median salary in the United States for a teacher is $60,000. But I dare you to find more valuable, significant people in the workforce than teachers who craft young people. You know, and so the idea here is that when you begin to see that there's a reason why at some point in your life, no matter where you're from, what politics you ascribe to, what your spiritual experience is, what country you live in, at some point everybody lays awake at night and says, why am I here?

Well, where's that coming from? Like, nobody has to teach a kid to say no. Nobody has to teach a kid to ask a million questions. And nobody ever teaches you, hey, at some point at three in the morning when you're awake, ask yourself, why am I here? Or what should I do in my life? Am I right? So that to me is a soul craving a soul craving to be significant now you are significant you're significant as your human being and you were created in the eyes of god so you're significant but there's a soul craving to be significant for somebody else that's what i'm saying and i think a way to do that is through your work it's not all about your work that's why i said it's relational purpose and

professional purpose. You're a student of history. So how did we get here to where my life is all about me? Because what you're saying is right. It's when I'm working with people who are struggling with mental health, if I can get them to just shift the perspective that your life's about service. And if somebody can get there, it's game changer. That's it. That's right. That's right. Exactly. When I can get a husband and a wife to have a competition to see who can serve each other

the most, the entire family system changes. Oh, yeah. What happened? Where did we go sideways? Because this is wired into us. You see primates picking bugs off each other in the wild. Where did we, and I'll just say the in the wild where did we and i'll just say the united states where do we get sideways and say nope this is about me i can solve yeah i

i want to i want to say that i don't think this is an american problem but we we grow up as americans and we hear rugged individualism so the roots of of the rugged individualism statement is the answer to this question okay so i don't think it's an American thing. I think it is a, I think it is a prosperity thing. I mean, when you talk about countries that are, that are,

that are prosperous, so yet third world countries, I've been privileged to be in the poorest parts of Haiti. I've been privileged to spend time in the jungle of Africa where there's no electricity. You don't see this kind of Africa where there's no electricity. You don't see this kind of stuff over there. You just don't. And so what has happened is over time in history, there's the natural human inclination to progress and to make progress.

So it's okay to want to accomplish. All right. Well, when we saw commerce begin to modernize, and this is, I'm trying not to give a long-winded answer. No, that's what I'm asking. I know you're a history guy. Well, the historical context is you go from this colonial era to now we go to more of a modern commerce era. So as money and commerce became more about stuff as opposed to livelihood. So for instance- We were solving for lunch,

and now we're solving for which couch do we want? So I know Kelly's back there. She's my fellow history nerd. I grew up a little house on the prairie. So to illustrate what I'm saying, there was a point in American history, I can't speak to the world history, but in American history,

there was a point where work was about eggs. Yeah, food. You didn't get dollars and cents as much. Commerce was new, okay? If you just look at the country of America. So look at 1776 is when they go, we're independent, but there was no commerce. There wasn't this money system.

So I don't want to completely nerd out, but over time, when we begin to see modernization of commerce, and I can get more stuff, whereas before it was all about livelihood and the basics. Now it became about stuff. Well, you stick the opportunity for humans to progress and it's stuff that makes my life more convenient, my life more luxurious. There's where it all comes from. So then now work became less about the craft and it became about accumulation. Getting more stuff.

Yeah, because the silversmith and the blacksmith, like they did the craft not because it was passion. Right, right. It was we got to live. And if I go do this many horseshoes, I'm going to get chickens and eggs. Gotcha. Well, then when commerce comes in, it's just the natural human. I hate to say it, but it is the human condition when you introduce commerce.

So then work slowly becomes about accumulation of money. We still have the basic needs that the blacksmith and the little house in the prairie people had, but now it's like, well, the more of this money I get, I can do more than just provide. So work became over time, a utilitarian function to live first, then to live better, to live really, really good. Yeah. And we got twisted on it. So it all became that. Now the last piece on this, then, then the, uh, and because of Ramsey solutions, people are going to think I'm up to this, but this is the truth. In the 50s, the Pell Grant came out. This is post-World War II.

So the Pell Grant comes out, and higher education is starting to become a thing. They made it accessible for people, and the federal government went, hmm. We didn't have anything to do with all those veterans coming home. Nothing to do. Let's send them back and train them. So then the Pell Grant became popular, and the federal government went, hmm, we can actually make money off of this. And here comes Sally Mae. Here comes the

federal student loan program. So now it became a marketing message. Hey, you really want to be successful? You want a different life for your kids than you had on the assembly line, Fred? Maud, send your kid to college. And it became a marketing message that the only way to success, real success, monetary stuff success, is through higher education. That was the fuel already on top of the fire. That's my take. I was coaching somebody the other day. They made a statement. They said, hey, I'm struggling with parenting.

This is a private call. Struggling with my kid. And they made a statement by the way i've known since this since my kid was little they'll have a job with the name on their shirt so there's no illusions here and i said whoa that's okay and the parent was like yeah i know it's okay it's great i'm excited for it's something they're passionate about whatever but just the idea that we've got a delineation. Yeah. That there's some sort of, hey, just so you know, we're not dealing with full firepower here.

And I want to say, man, the smartest guy I've ever met in my life is Gus Menendez, who could fix any car on planet Earth. A couple things on that. Number one, that's okay if that's true. We don't know if that's true for that father to assume that. And that's what he's doing is he's falling into the class system. It's a class system, and it's based on economics. And that's where all of this became a thing to where work was about a rat race and it became about status, not significance. And I'm preaching significance.

And again, let me be clear because you've asked me this before. When I say significance, I don't mean proving that you are significant. Of course, of course. I'm saying making a significant contribution in the sense that you were born with talent. You were born with things that fire your soul up. Stuff that fires you up makes me want to fall asleep. Vice versa, right? Right.

We have a unique contribution to make, and work's got to be about more than income. It's got to be about impact as well. That's what I'm saying. Therein lies the title of the book, From Paycheck to Purpose. Do we need a paycheck? Yes. We need income. But I think people want more than income. Yeah, absolutely. So we're going to show them seven stages in the book where we unpack a very clear path for how we, A, figure out what are all the different types of work that are very significant

to me. And because it's significant to me, it it's significant to me it'll be significant to others what is that role that that dream job or multiple dream jobs by the way then how do we get there so anyway uh it comes from a deep longing that i just know that this whole nine to five race and this whole i need more stuff work has been corrupted was going to say, once you look at the diseases of despair, you look at the... We're paying a cost. I'm glad to see somebody get into the emotional part of work.

Somebody's got to deal with it. And I think now we've got a generation of young people who's putting their entire identity and identity in work. It's true, but I will tell you, we see that with millennials, but I really am encouraged by what I'm seeing out of Gen Z. Yeah, they're saying I'm out, man.

Well, they're craving a relationship because they're the digital. They're the kids that grew up with a phone their whole life. They don't even know what it's like to not have a smartphone in their pudgy little hands. But they're sick of it. They are. Sick of it. They're sick of it. I love it.

And by the way, that's the whole human race. We long for relationship. All right, hey, let's take a quick break. We'll be right Sick of it. They're sick of it. I love it. And by the way, that's the whole human race. We long for relationship. All right, hey, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back on Dr. John Deloney's show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, October is the season for wearing costumes and masks. And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era

because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting.

We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100%

online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, Kent. So we got your pitch out of the way. Tell us about Kent. How many brothers and sisters you got?

Where are you from? Mom and dad? Tell us about you. Yeah. One brother. Okay. Jamie is three and a half years younger than me. So it's just the two boys.

Y'all friends? We are. Yeah. Closer now than we were as kids simply because I was three and a half years older, but four grades. The way that he fell. And so it was four grades. So imagine like- So you're never in the same school.

Yeah. So like he's an eighth grader when I'm a senior, you know? And so there's just- That's a hundred years. Yeah, it really is. So a lot of separation, but no animosity. But as we've gotten older now, very close. That's similar to me, my brother.

Yeah. Mom and dad, the real life Ken and Barbara. Ken and Barbie. Yeah. Ken and Barbara Coleman, high school sweetheart. Oh, that's their real name, real names. Their real similar to me and my brother. Yeah. Mom and dad, the real life Ken and Barbara, Ken and Barbie. Yeah. Ken and Barbara Coleman, high school sweetheart. Oh, that's the real name.

The real name, Ken and Barbara. Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. If you see my dad, he's like five,

six. He's not anything resembling the Ken doll, nor am I, uh, as everybody now knows. So, uh, pastor's kid,

um, never lived a day when my dad wasn't a pastor. Started a church straight out of Bible College. He did? Yeah. He drives from Chattanooga, Tennessee with my mom in a 72 Volkswagen Bug and they started

a church with six families in Point Pleasant, West Virginia. A town of 5,000 people and it was the county seat. My high school had 4,000 kids in it. Yeah, and I was born in a really small town in West Virginia. We moved from that small town when I was 12 to the Hampton Roads area of Virginia.

So it was like going from literally Mayberry to what I thought was a metropolis, which was about 600,000 people in that area. So it was a real dramatic change at 12. But that's a big city, yeah. It was a big city for sure. And so that's kind of the – I'm giving you the quick childhood. But, I mean, great family. So we all know the jokes about preacher's kids.

Yeah. Was that you? No. If i know what joke you're telling well so here's my hypothesis tell me if i'm right i think there are preacher's kids i don't get myself in trouble here i think there are preacher's kids who do one of two things if they've got i don't want to do that we don't even go there yeah i don't mind i'm not the black it's not that i'm saying there's when parents when people see how their parents are in some sort of you know helping profession and kids see a consistency they see oh my dad and my mom are who they say they are every day of the week they don't just put on a show on the day of the week. And I guess this is for teachers and cops,

kids, ministers, kids, whatever. It's when they see a different parent performing over here, over here, there's that cognitive dissonance in the kids and there ends up being some sort of,

something doesn't feel right. Um, and then, so I know folks who have been pastors or teachers or cops or whatever you want to say and man they've got they are consistent they are and their kids bear that out and there's those that struggle yeah it's my story in that i i i not lost a love of the church or ministry i don't have a bitter taste my mouth my mom and dad weren't perfect but certainly that's not my experience i was very very involved. Even up into

college, I'd come back and help out in a very small church, by the way, small church. But your dad was who he said he was, huh? Yeah. That's awesome. Legit. Sold out. So where did you come up with this idea that you wanted to help other people? You and I have talked about this offline, just sitting at the desk. Losing your job is one of the most psychologically devastating events a person can go through. Yeah, I shared this data with you.

Studies show. When a business says, we don't want you. Yeah. When you're out of work up to six months, they say that the trauma, the emotional trauma on a human being is the same as losing a loved one. Right. I was struck by that. You weren't as surprised, but it's a pretty big deal. So who put that, where does that burr in your heart come from?

Like, I want to get in the middle of that type of trauma and pain and help people. Where it comes from, it wasn't that developed, obviously, but my father in ministry, my mom and dad loved people. They loved people. That's small church ministry. There wasn't any money in it. They struggled. They loved people. So I always saw a model of loving on people spiritually.

My dad loved history. And you know, when you've got a parent, whether it be a mother or father who's into something big time, I think a kid goes one of two ways. either totally reject it like what or you totally just eat it up and i don't know if i could prove that out no it's it's i think it's right i just fell in love with history now one of the things i now know later on is my parents couldn't afford to take us to disney world so we went to battlefields So I'm like climbing up on redoubts. And the fact that I even know what a redoubt is makes me so pathetic. But it's where they would build the mounds to fire their guns.

And so they're still there. My dad would go, hey, that's where the Revolutionary War redoubt was. But then back then, then the Civil War used it. And I'm like, okay, this is awesome. And I'm running around in a field. But I think it's a big time deal because my dad said a major battle happened here. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely.

I knew what the Battle of Bull Run was before I was 10. Nobody knows what that is. And the fact that we live in an ecosystem that would suggest, oh, you know what you really should have been learning about? Dancing mice. Right. Dancing mice. Right. I don't know about that.

And a giant. I don't even know if he's a dog. What is goofy? But that's the way we tell our stories. So bottom line is this history thing starts to weigh in on things. So I've got parents who are sold out to love it on people in a spiritual context. Yeah. I've got this unbelievable appreciation for history.

So all I ever read about and hear about are men and women who do great things. That starts to weigh in on you. You go, my mom and dad love on people. They're making a difference in people's lives. These men and women that I read about are awesome because they did things that change people's lives, right?

Whether it be political or science or Thomas Edison or anything, all those accomplishments had human beings on the other end of the accomplishments. Serving other people. Sure. Einstein, Edison, electricity, Alexander Graham Bell. I mean, we forget that all these great accomplishments have people on the other end of it that really benefit from talent. That's the whole point. So I think that was a big part of it. And then my dad was very political. So the last piece was public service, but it was in the context of politics. I won't go into politics, but you take all three of those elements, ministry, history, and politics. I don't know that it could have, it just was like

a giant rushing river that led me to serving people. But I thought it was going to be politics. I thought it was going to be public service making policy, influencing policy that would make people's lives better. Gotcha. And then there was a shift in my late 20s, and it became, many years later, broadcasting. But I didn't know it. I just knew that I wanted to make people's lives better. But I couldn't articulate that. I don't know how many to make people's lives better. But I couldn't articulate that. I don't know how many 20-year-olds that can.

Oh, no. I'm even giving you like 16. I just knew, man, I'm supposed to go do public service. I felt I was called into politics at 16, but I didn't know what it was going to look like. Of course. I mean, you're 16. I thought I was supposed to be in a metal band and a pro baseball player at 16. You know, you would have been the real life, like, not real life, he is a real person. You would have been like a Bo Jackson if you pulled that off. Bo Jackson was like the first person to be amazing and be a star in two major pro leagues.

If you would have pulled off rock star and baseball player. It would have been incredible. I still wouldn't have been Bo Jackson. Doesn't matter. If you were a major leaguer and you did concerts on the weekend. Incredible. Either of those worked out. Thanks for kicking me while I'm down, though.

I appreciate that. Okay, so getting back to contribution, I'm thinking about our families. So you and I, at the end of the day, I don't want to minimize what we do, but one of the things we do is we give advice for a living yeah and man there's sometimes the tools that make us successful at our jobs and i've worked with doctors and lawyers and preachers the tools that make you successful at your job often melt the people in our houses right right? Our relationships at home. And so how do you balance being the guy that America calls

when they're struggling with something? And then the guy at home, how do you shift and navigate? Hey, all these people are asking for my advice and your 14-year-old is just like, hey, how about you shut up, old man? And let me, you know what I mean? How do you, how do you balance that? Well, I haven't, I haven't done a good job of it. And you know that. What does that mean? Oh, I just, I'm recently awakening to the fact that I've been parenting my kids as a coach. Cause I love sports, you know? And so I, I, I played

sports my whole life. I always matriculated to the coach who was kind of the tough love. I knew my coach loved me, but he'd bust my butt and he was tough and i responded well to people who pushed me yeah um and then i'm learning about fear of the fear of a father what's that mean well it's the fear of the mother too but for me it means is, is that you have this dream of being a parent, which I did. And our journey was very different and all over the place, as you know, and you finally become a parent and you just want to invest and pour into these kids that you love so much. You can't even possibly articulate it. And you go along and then they don't turn out maybe the way you expected, or they don't do things you expected.

And it's just the normal rhythm. We're not talking about major stuff here. And you begin to get controlling because you're like, oh, I'm afraid that they may not do this. I'm afraid that they don't. And then you combine that with this, I can coach. I can show you. I can teach you. I can convince you.

I can influence you to do what I know is best for you, and I'm passionate about it. I got bigger muscles than you. I can make you do this. And so what happens is I do believe it started in the right place from the heart, but then comes out of the heart and starts making it. This is really not science, but I'm going to describe it this way. It comes from the heart, starts making – this is really not science, but I'm going to describe it this way. It comes from the heart.

Somewhere it gets up here into the brain before it comes out of my mouth, and it turns into coaching and controlling. And it's been hard because you can't parent with platitudes, and it's really easy for me to do that. I'm just being really wrong. I've had to stop being a coach, and I've got to start being a dad. And it's still a work in progress. I'm making progress with my kids, but I had to stop coaching them. And I had to just be, how's that feel?

I'm 100%. But you're a counselor. Do you find that you naturally move to the counselor role? I wish I did. They beat that out of you in grad school. Do you find that you naturally move to the counselor role? I wish I did. They beat that out of you in grad school. Okay, good. You cannot treat your – they'll tell you it's unethical, and we will hope to find out, and we'll take your license from you.

Oh, that's good to know. If you counsel your friends or your family, you can't have them as clients. That's not your job. It's not your job to counsel your wife or your kids. But I default to coach. And what I realized was it was less of a moral failure and more. I thought I had way more tools. And I thought that I've come to liking baseball and fishing and hunting because those are the three greatest things.

And anyone with a rational brain. Oh, and old punk bands, too. Anyone with a brain will understand that those are the four things you should spend your time and energy on. And if someone I love – I'm not there yet. Well, I'm – right? But if I'm my kid, I think, oh, my son is super into 90s country, and I don't have a psychology for this. Yeah.

And I thought, you know what? I just haven't explained it right i went and bought cds we would take road trips where i i found myself trying to convince a nine-year-old that he should be liking this over this and it's exactly that's that's what i was describing is that they may just have they don't react the way to me that i wanted them to react to me and all of a sudden i'm projecting my needs onto them what turns into like well have you heard the or heard the so it it goes, but it goes back to.

I didn't know we were going to talk about parenting, but, uh, but you know, it's hard. That's this show, man. It's really hard. It's the hardest thing I'll ever do. I disagree. I'm willing to say that. No, it'll be harder things. So I'm interested.

I'm not convinced of that, but that's okay. How do you, you find yourself coaching? My kids? Are we talking about my kids? Yeah. Oh, geez. We're still there. What is your backpedal mechanism?

When you catch yourself. Oh. I'll give you an example. That's good. Yeah. The other day, my... My son was... You and I were talking about this. He said, hey, Dad, can I take some of your fancy lures to the creek?

Me and his buddies. We're going to catch some fish. I said, dude, there's no chance you're going to catch any fish there. None. Zero. It's two feet of water. And he's like, okay. But we're going to go fishing.

Can I borrow these? And then I realized my data isn't going to solve this problem. I've been fishing a thousand. I've been fishing 5,000 times. You will not catch fish in there with that lure. Hey, but dad, can I, you know what? Yes. Great.

And if you lose them, you're paying for them. Yeah. And then I get a text on my phone a few hours later from my wife. Hank wanted me to let you know that you were wrong. Hank! And they caught a fish. Way to go, Hank. And it made me happy.

I was excited. But I thought, when my default setting was, oh, that's so awesome, I thought, oh, that's a lot of therapy. Because I would have been pissed. Like, those guys caught a fish, and I would have been mad at myself, and I would have been ashamed, and I would have been gr at myself and I would have been ashamed and I would have been grumpy and a spiral and whatever. Yeah. So my back pedal is becoming, I wish I could say I do it all the time, but it's getting to the point where now I'm empathizing instead of trying to equip. Okay. You know, that's the coach you want to meet with the heart, not with more info. Yeah. It's well, I'm empathizing two ways. Number one, I first go,

did I do something like that when I was that age probably probably sometimes worse yeah um that's the first thing the second thing is is that uh i want them to feel that while i'm not thrilled with their actions yeah i um you talk about the bible on this show yeah you talk about whatever you want to on this there's a there's a well-known whether you've ever been in church or not if you've ever heard the parable the prodigal son look it up and i've been in church my whole life as we were talking and recently i saw something in that parable that i've never seen before so when the prodigal comes back in a place of shame, he's coming back. He's lost everything. He's filthy. He's nasty. He's been eating with the

pigs. He comes back, and the way the parable is told, Jesus tells it, is the father sees his son coming from afar off, and he's excited, and he welcomes him, right? And I kind of always just kind of glossed over the rest of the story story because I've always like, that's awesome. The father was glad his son was back. But nowhere in the parable does he say, come here, give me a hug. I told you so. I knew this was going to happen, but I'm glad you're safe. There was none of that. In fact, it's the next action. So the father does two things. One, he goes to the road to meet his son and he sticks his arms out and welcomes the son. You're welcome. But it's the next step that I've never seen before.

He goes, go prepare the finest dinner. We're throwing a party. That's next level. It's not. Unconditional love is you're welcome back. I don't even know what you call that. We're celebrating that you're alive and that you're back we're throwing a party you burned my money you embarrassed me in the community

you split my family up and i'm so glad let's go have chips in case so glad you're home yeah like so i was just telling my wife that this is i've not shared this anybody i was just like that's the part that's so hard about parenting the love is there but i never saw the other part which is i'm gonna show you crazy reckless crazy reckless grace and redemption i think it's redemption i think it's one thing if the father hugs the dude and goes hey let's let's go get you a shower. They threw a party. That kid goes from shame to what is going on here? I don't know, dude. I'm running with that.

I don't know if that stands up theologically, but that's the way it is. Well, here's what I love about it is it's the person who was spurned who went first. The person in power went first. And often – It wasn't about him. He wasn't worried about what everybody thought. There's where i struggle i get so hung up in my kids behavior whatever like what are people gonna think about me it's like would you stop it it's not about you you bonehead it's about them and i think the

father was going i don't care what anybody thinks even with his other son in the back going hey what about me yeah uncle larry's going i wouldn't have done that you know uncle larry was in the back going i don't know about this i've had him been my boy, I'd have kicked his butt. Don't you think? Of course. And we solved it with connection. I'm going to draw you nearer than you could even imagine. That's trying to be my back pedal.

So you're leaning into. Yeah, as a dad dad you go first man and it's isn't it crazy I do that too Ken now that I'm thinking about it sometimes I look at my 11 year old and think

well you did this so when you're ready to take the first step it's like what an idiot caught myself recently he's 11 caught myself recently and it just a normal

it wasn't a big thing this is not a major fire it was just normal parent stuff normal disobedience kind of stuff or just bad decision and i caught my i literally said it but i couldn't get the words back and it was sorry i failed you yeah yeah i said that my kid was, literally, what woke me up was my kid was like, no, you didn't. My kid. We're talking about teens that are like, they don't even know. They have no sense.

And he was like, no, you didn't. It was me. And that's the issue there. Jeez, dude, I didn't know we were going here. This is unbelievable. I need some tissue when i got home and i told my son i've so excited i was wrong i y'all are really impressed good job catching fish and he gave me a hug oh yeah but modeling for him hey here's what it looks like

to say i was wrong i will tell you some of the biggest breakthroughs for me uh is watching my kids respond to me going i totally blew it yeah yeah sorry like i i don't even have a good excuse i blew it here yeah and i can't think of a greater gift other than food and water and treating our spouses with dignity yeah it's a great point by the way this is good this is good for your marriage as is for your parenting i mean this is the same kind of stuff here it's a good at workplace when you go in i go into dave and say hey man i said this i didn't i didn't mean to say it this way i'm sorry and i mean i can't tell you how many times i've had to literally walk into a co-worker with a plate of steaming crow cut it up in front of them and go i'm gonna eat this in

front of you i gotta tell you but it's liberating because here's the whole thing. Let's circle back to some stuff here for people that are watching here because you're talking to people that feel like they failed beyond repair. That is such BS. You didn't fail. I mean, you may have failed, but you're not beyond redemption. Well, you failed. Yeah, you screwed up bad, but you're not beyond redemption. If you learn to eat the crow and you learn to see redemption on the other side of eating crow,

I'm telling you the greatest lessons are when we're willing to just eat that dirty bird. That's when I can untether my ego from. It's not that I have to be perfect. It's the image of having to be perfect. If I can unhook from that, you're free. Forcing to confront your failure makes it hurt even more than you already thought. You know what I'm saying? It's enough for you to go, oh, geez, I just really screwed up and hurt somebody.

That's your own recognition. But then when you've got to go to them, oh, it's like a screwdriver in an open wound. Am I right? Yeah, it hurts, man. You don't own it to them, but here's what happens. To me, as you know, it leads to healing. It's freedom, yeah but but it's also like i don't want to feel that much more yeah so people assume because you are a syndicated radio

host you've spoken in front of thousands and thousands and thousands of people i sound so impressive right now yeah i just saw you with a with a former president the other day. What do they assume? When's a time you've screwed up? Can you be more specific? Yeah, professionally. Because here's the thing. I think there's a perception that once you're there, wherever people imagine there is, that you've got that skill down.

Once you're a mechanic and you learn how to change a tire, you change a tire, right? You don't mess that up. It depends on what kind of screw-ups we're talking about. Okay, let's do a live event. Have you had an awesome live event? Screw-up? Whoopsie-doo?

Yeah. Live event whoopsie-doo. You've interviewed hundreds. Nothing comes to mind, but I'll tell you this. James and Kelly are over there. I mean, early on, like when Dave came up with this idea one day that I wasn't even an official personality, but they were going to host a radio show. And so we had to do this, and there's all this pressure, and it's the second largest show in the world.

I mean, the chair felt like I was sitting in John Bunyan's Lazy Boy the first time we did it. So we go on. I don't know, James, it might have been four or five months in, and I had just started my fledgling podcast, and I just was live on the air one day rolling along, and I gave out my full phone number and said the Ken Coleman show. Not a big deal now that

we look back on it a very understandable mistake because I had started a daily show at the time but you would have I do listen to me I was mortified because this is the biggest show I mean this is this is a massive show this is a legend seat I'm sitting I don't even belong in the room right and I accidentally just said my phone number and my name and there's new people coming in all the time and i just felt like well that was one small thing but it felt really huge so that was a big uh-oh uh the first time i did that i was mortified james could tell you i mean i probably was eight shades of white and he was very gracious and some people make mistakes at work oh 30 people find out you make that mistake and millions heard it, right?

But I'll tell you this. I am such a control freak and I didn't realize I was a control freak until recently because I'm not a detail guy. Okay. I'm not organized and I'm not detailed. Okay. Anybody that knows me... So what are you a control freak about?

Perception. Image. Ah, okay. Image. Image and perception. Control freak, man. want everybody to like me want everybody to think that i've got what it takes that i belong blah blah blah blah okay so so i was on my own for a long time lone wolf so so when you're not bouncing into people your own show

yeah well just yeah yeah my own show on my own in Atlanta. I didn't have a team. Gotcha. So I come to Ramsey, and I think I joined the team when there was like 700 people or something, 800 people. So I had to start working with people, and some of that stuff flared up, and I've unfortunately ripped people's heads off. Ah, gotcha. Because I felt like they either didn't respect or didn't, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all about respect. Yeah.

You didn't, I can't believe you'd say that or you'd ask that or just that kind of stuff. Just feeling like. I'm Ken freaking Coleman. Not from that standpoint of an arrogance thing, but a, what? Like, you don't think I know what I'm doing on this? Like, that's what I mean. Like, it wasn't an arrogance. It may have come across that way, but it was, it's from a bad place of control.

Gotcha. I can't believe you think this or that you even asked that or whatever or i had a high standard and there i would hold people to standards that weren't realistic you understand what i'm saying totally so some of that stuff that i've really blown it professionally where i've just been super intense with co-workers um and that's. Because the irony of that is the people pleaser, the unhealthy people pleaser is what caused the flare up. And then you flare up and whack somebody on the head.

And you're not pleasing them. In a moment of not being healthy, then you feel even worse about it. It just spins that sucker. You're a professional. You can break that down better than I can. Well, it ends up in the toilet bowl, right?

It just spins faster and faster and faster. So it is. So until you get healthy on that and you realize that you're allowing stuff to trigger you, that has nothing to do with what these folks are doing. Nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember the first meeting I was here, so

I'm hypersensitive about my appearance. You are? Oh my gosh. One of the first meetings, and that's childhood stuff back from when I was a kid. I think it's news to me as well. This is fascinating. But when we sat in the meeting, the very first one, we did a photo shoot and they walked me in a me and that's that's childhood stuff back when i was a kid i think it's news to me as well this is fascinating we sat in the in the meeting the very first one we did a photo shoot and they walk me in a room and there's a giant flat screen and there's 30 people and they're like this is my favorite ken i may have told you this there's somebody walks up and they're looking at a picture of me it's like a five-foot picture of me and they're scrolling

through them scrolling through them and you hear people going, no, no, oh, gosh, no, no. I can get that. And I'm sitting there going, what? I know. But somebody says this. That's me, everybody. Oh, this one's perfect. Look how he's standing. Look at these clothes.

This would be perfect if it weren't for his face. And I remember thinking, guys, that's my face. I can't change that part. And everybody laughed, and it was funny. But I had to get over it, man, because i was so sensitive about it that's very similar the sensitivity for years how i'm perceived the sensitivity to that and if that triggers that you know better i mean i'm talking to a psychologist here so some of that stuff having to learn how to uh process that and understand that that that's coming from someplace yeah that's what i'm bringing it to them yeah so when often when somebody calls into the show they'll tell me

hey there's a presenting issue and one of the things i'm always looking for is threads like how far does this thread go yeah one of the most common questions i'll ask is walk me through what home looked like when you're a kid yeah Yeah. So a quick thread, what's something you learned from your dad that has passed through Ken that you are so excited to pass along? Like what's something you still carry with you? Something you carry with you? Well, I was talking to my dad this morning. Yeah. And so the easy answer to that question is he taught me the most valuable lesson that any human has ever taught me. And it has been with me since I was a seven-year-old soccer player.

Dang, dude. Seven years. Seven years old. So I'm a little guy now. Imagine me at seven. I look like I was four. Did you have a humongous head and tiny little legs? Nothing about me is humongous.

I had a huge head. Everything on me is... I was like a running Q-tip. I'm just a small guy. Small guy. There it is. And so I'm showing up to play in a six- to eight-year-old league or six, seven to ten, something like that.

I don't know. I'm the smallest kid on the team. Okay. Now, this was back in the day. This was in the 80s. So everybody didn't get a trophy. There was no equal playing time. I'm serious.

I remember those days. I'm not trying to old school all of a sudden, folks. I'm just telling you that was my reality. Come on, Kelly. Am I right? You didn't get equal playing time in Little League. If you weren't good, you just never played. You sat over in the corner of the dugout looking through the chain link

eating Big League Chew. And there'd be one coach that'd go to the other coach and go, should we put him in? And then you'd run up to right field. One inning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was the reality. I remember.

So here I am, little Kenny Coleman. I look like I'm four. I'm seven. I want to play soccer. I really am pretty decent at it, but my coach Fred Serbaugh, never forget his name. No wound at all. Nothing there at all. He doesn't play me. You're like that guy in Billy Madison. He doesn't play me. And I don't know if this is two or three games in the season. Fast forward. One day on the way home from the game, I'm in the backseat. My dad's driving.

Just the two of us. I'm crying notices i'm crying it's the old conversation to the rearview mirror oh yeah our eyes are meeting i'm sobbing what's wrong bud i croak through tears something along the lines of i just want to play or i'm not playing something like that he looks at me and he says hang in there your time will come four words your time will come now he then goes on to say you're small you'll eventually get a little bit bigger a little bit faster coach will give you a chance and you're going to play and you will score goals he prophesies if you will over me came true yeah two years later i'm the oldest in the league. I make the travel select team. I'm scoring lots of goals.

Life is glorious. There you go. Cue the John Mellencamp glory days, right? So that lesson stayed with me in my 20s when I was trying to get into politics, and I got in. It stayed with me in my 30s, and I don't have time to unpack it because we've got to go, I'm sure. But even as I sit here today on the precipice of 47 yeah about the launch probably my most important massive book yeah

uh an assessment other things massive pressure as dave's given us a platform and we're actually helping people and i want to do more i want to to do it faster, your time will come. And he taught me patience while persisting. Very difficult thing to do. I'm trying to put myself in the driver's seat of that car. I bet your dad's heart was ripped out.

Looking at your son crying and thinking, I can't fix this. I got a seven-year-old back there whose world has been shattered because he didn't get in the game. He just wants to play. He just wants to play, man. Yeah. And for him to have those words, your time will come. And

I'm gonna, I believe I'll write a parable-style book on that message one day. Can I tell you something wild? It's the most important thing I've ever learned. My old man, my dad, man, very similar. Playing baseball.

I've always been a big kid. I had an opposite thing. I had a rough season. I was good out in the field, but I was really struggling at the plate. He said something. If you can hit the ball, it will find a place on the field for you. And I remember thinking, man, if I can put the time in,

because I wasn't practicing, I was running around with my buddies. But it was a statement of, if you can play. Yeah, that's it. And it was a, I felt a sense of, the ball's in your court. Yeah. Like the universe's in your court. Yeah. Like the universe has smiled on you. You're a big kid. You're going to put to work.

And I've always had that, hey, I'm not getting this job. I didn't get this promotion. Then I'm probably not ready for it. I'm not there yet. And for all the dads out there, right, wrong, or indifferent. And those little, those little, little those moments he had no idea stay with you he had no idea how profound that was until many years later i told him and he was in tears and to be honest with you there's nothing profound there it's profound but it's four words yeah so speaking life into your kids man that's what i'm saying man doesn't matter how

it sounds mom doesn't matter how it sounds dad they absorb it just throw your heart out all right man hey dude thanks for coming to hang out on the show dude this is fun you're awesome thank you you're great um so every show we end with some song lyrics i'm gonna do a first on this shit in a second i let mcconaughey do it, and I'm going to let Ken Coleman do it. What am I doing? You put me up against McConaughey. There's no chance. I asked you before the show

what your song would be. Greatest song of all time. And for only the second time, I'm going to let you read these. Oh. You picked them. Give the... Why? Who... Why?

Who? Why? And read the verse, verse, and the chorus. You asked me this question, and I immediately decided I'm going to go with the first thing that comes to my mind, and I'm so glad I did, and I thought about it later, and it's unquestionable. My favorite song of all time, Garth Brooks, The Dance. Go Garth! 90s country, man.

Because he's Garth, first of all. He's Garth. dance go garth 90s country man because he's garth first of all garth um but the lyrics so good man the dance i'm reading this looking back it's all i can do not to sing it but i know james will turn the mic off but i really sing it please sing it ken mcconaughey sang it did he did he did sing The bar has been set. The problem is, is Garth is so unique. This song's so great. I'll dishonor the very thing. But anyway, looking back. But he's a poet.

Let's do it. Looking back on the memory of the dance we shared beneath the stars above. For a moment, all the world was right. How could I have known that you'd ever say goodbye? And now, I'm glad I didn't know the way it all would end, the way it all would go. And this is my favorite line. Our lives are better

left to chance. I could have missed the pain, but I'd have had to miss the pain. Phew. Dude, thanks for being here, man. He's choking me, man. Get me out of here. Thanks so much. Ken Coleman, go to kencoleman.com. You can listen to the Ken Coleman Show.

You can follow him on the internets at Ken Coleman. Make sure you pick up his brand new book. Please. From Paycheck to Purpose. My kids need shoes. Your kids' shoes are awesome. And when we park next to each other in the parking lot. I feel it.

But it's good, man. It's good. Hey, buy the book for yourself. Buy the book for your friends and family. Hey, thank you for joining us right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show.