The Dr. John Delony Show - Learning To Love My Husband Again After Addiction

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

On today’s episode, we hear about: - A wife wondering if she can love her newly sober husband again - A woman ready to cut ties with her meth-addicted brother who’s just been arrested for sexual abuse - A new dad coping with anxiety through the comfort of fast food Lyrics of the Day: "Everywhere" - Michelle Branch  Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. How can I move past the history that I had with my husband while he was drinking, now that he is sober, and is it even possible? The last few months have just been, I can't get intimate with him. I can barely hug him. How come? Like, what is your body trying to protect you from? Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show,

greatest mental health and marriage and parenting podcast ever, ever. That's a bold statement. It's mostly not true. It's mostly true, and I'm so glad that you've joined us. If you want to be on this show, this show is real calls from real people, and I pull up a seat at the bar and listen to what's going on, and we figure out what to do next. We make the next right decision. If you want to be on the show, talk about what's going on in your life. It can be just about anything, man. We'll talk about all of it.

Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. 1-844-693-3291. And you leave a message and Jenna or Kelly will call you back. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask. All right, so let's get right into it. We're going to have some fun. I got a letter from Kyle and then his wife also wrote a letter. Amber, Kyle and Amber, you ever played poker with me? If someone's like, I call or I'll raise you. I'll raise you. I'll raise you. I love call. So Kyle, I'm calling

both figuratively and literally. Here we go. Hello? Hey, is Kyle there? Yes, this is him. Kyle, this is Deloney. What are you doing? No way. Yeah, dude, you wrote me a letter. Dude, this is really you. I hear your voice. That's really me. Hey, and you're on the air, so don't say anything dumb that's going to get you fired, okay? How are you? Y'all doing well?

Wow, I'm doing well. And man, really well. And how you called, I was just working away. I'm a numbers guy. And now my day just got fun. So this is cool. What kind of numbers do you do? Dude, I'm an accountant. Spreadsheets, bookkeeping, taxes, formulas.

That's just my happy place. I just died a little bit on the inside in my guts. Except I do know the sum equals or the equal sum algorithms. I know how that works. That puts you like top 80%, I think. Okay, so me and Dave Ramsey, a couple other folks, some of the gang here, we're coming to San Antonio to do an event. And you and your wife both wrote me separate letters asking,

could we sold out the whole thing sold out and you want to backstage pack passes like it's wayne's world what do you want to do man dude i'm well i saw there was like an upgraded tier just to shake your hand and say hi i mean we're just huge fans and that that's that's what i'm looking for and we're definitely going to go to the event and have a great time but i was just i saw they already sold out by the time i saw the thing i logged in and it was already like backstage gone so i'm like man hopefully a handwritten letter might be the special special umph here to convince them and then and i also wanted i don't know i just like love playing basketball i hear you you mess around

a little bit streetball and then a little bit CrossFit, just trying to make your time enjoyable while you're here in San Antonio. So I will pass on basketball. I've had some, I ended up in two knee surgeries the last time I played basketball and it was like a church league thing, man. It was not great, but I am going to do some hard hitting Mexican food when I'm in San Antonio. So I got me covered. Hey, I got you guys.

Okay. Here's what you're going to do. When you show up, I want you to let the people on the entryway that you're Kyle and you're the guy that wrote the letter and that you're supposed

to meet with Deloney and they'll get in touch with me and we'll make it happen. Is that cool? Wow. Thank you so much, Dr. John. That just made my day. You're amazing, man.

Thank you. Awesome. Hey, thanks for writing me a letter. I love getting mail and thanks for sending a picture. Here's what's cool. I don't know which one of these dudes you are in this photo. There's this beautiful woman and two guys, and I'm just going to guess you're the other guy. So that's very cool, man. Hey, have an awesome day. Get back to your, uh, spreadsheeting. Um, that almost sounded vulgar, but get back to your spreadsheeting and we'll party from there. Is that cool?

Awesome. Thank you so much. Hey, brother. Hold on the line real quick and Jen will pick up. Thanks, man. All right. All right. Thanks All right See just write me letters. I love getting snail mail. I love getting snail mail like i'm a middle schooler And I just got back from like summer camp And there's no social media and I realized I just dated myself and i'm a thousand years old now All right Um, hey and we're gonna be taking some more live events on the road Um, especially uh the spring if you want us to come to your town shoot me a direct message and we'll see if we can

Set that up. We're gonna really hit the road this spring. Um, let's go out's go out to Los Angeles, California and talk to Shelly. What's up, Shelly? Hi. Hi. Can you hear me? Yeah, I can. How are you? I am good. How are you? Good, good, good, good. What's up? So I'm a little nervous. I'm nervous too. I'm nervous too. So we can just be nervous together. Yes. Um, so my question is, how can I move past the history that I had with my husband while he was drinking now that he is sober? And is it even possible? Uh, I don't know.

What is, um, what, there's a lot there. Um. Why do you want to move past it? Because I feel like I can't be connected with him anymore. I guess I'll just explain. We've been married for four years and he was drinking for, I guess, three and a half of those. But it just progressively got worse. And I did threaten many times to leave, of course, but eventually I did. And I went to go stay with my aunt and uncle and I kind of was just trying to figure out my life because I was just done. And only after I left, did he finally go to AA and decide to change. So I came back and the last few months have just been, I can't get intimate with him. I can barely hug him, honestly. I feel like when he is even like touching me,

like I just get like almost a defense mechanism, you know? How come? Like what is your body trying to protect you from? Often when we say I had to step away from a relationship, whether it was romantic or a friendship or something like a marriage, we step away from somebody who's struggling with addiction. It's often the behaviors that surround the addiction. So did he hit you? Did he cheat on you? Was he with other people? Like what were the things that were happening while he was not sober?

Um, so he did not hit me or anything like that. I mean, he got aggressive with me, but like mostly verbally, but he would pretty much like drink excessively. And then if we would go out, there were a lot of times where he would act out. And I mean, I lost a lot of friends, you know, because he kind of just turned into a crazy person. Okay. And, you know, then sometimes, like, if I would go out, he would get drunk and then freak out that I was out.

So why do you want to go back? You left. Yeah. You played a game of chicken with him for a while which is i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna you never did and then finally you did and it sounds like um we forget this alcoholism all addictions but alcoholism um can often be highly environmental in nature and most people when they enter into sobriety and they go to aa, they don't realize you got to change friends. You got to change coping strategies.

You got to change places to go hang out. You got to change everything. And you left the environment and you found peace. You left the environment and he was able to exhale and go get help. So what is it about you wanting to re like engage in this thing? I don't see anywhere where you love him, where you want to go be with him. You want to rekindle with him. In fact, your body's telling you the exact opposite.

So why, why are you want to go back? I mean I guess because I married him and I did go into this with love and I I wanted to be that way I guess and I want to heal and I guess I always wanted him to be a certain way and he wasn't and then

when I left suddenly he's like oh wait, actually I will change. And now that he is, I guess I just wish that I could feel that way. And I wish that he could just heal. Can I give you an alternate explanation? Yeah. You had a picture of what marriage was going to look like. You had a picture of what he was going to look like. But over time, you didn't like who you became. Yeah. And you lost trust in you. And now you're back.

And when the sobriety, when people get sober, they have to deal with this ugly reality, which is real life on both sides of the equation. That's why people who struggle with certain addictions, their partners often can't survive the transition to sobriety because that's not the person I married or that's not what I signed up for. This sober person, I like the fun person, the silly person, the spontaneous person, the moody, dark person. I liked that. I didn't like the excesses, but I liked that part. And I don't know what to do with this cheerful guy or this thoughtful guy or this guy that picks up after himself and goes to work every day. What about you? Do you not like in this new, newly sober husband of yours um i um it's hard to explain but i think the main thing is that i i really um degraded myself by putting myself through what i went through and when I finally went to my aunt and uncle and my aunt is like basically my mom um she really kind of explained to me that I can't keep doing that

and I think I got that in my head and now anything that he tries to do just doesn't help because I'm now like no I respect myself and I'm not going to let you take any advantage ever again. Like, I don't know. Is he continuing to try to take advantage of you while you're sober? No, no. He's actually trying to be better and I can see that. And I guess that makes me feel guilty. Okay. So he's not on the phone. So the only person I can talk to is you. And I'm going to give you probably some wisdom that nobody's given you okay okay

you chose to go back yeah and if you choose to go back and now you discover that you have power because AA is about taking a knee. It's about saying, I submit.

I tapped out. The way I was trying to do life was not working and it was burning me and everybody else to the ground. So you've come back and now the tide has turned and you've got power. And you are killing this guy. You're starving him to death. You're dangling love over a great cavern

and then you're pulling it back every time he tries. And in a weird way that's cruel. Do you get what I'm saying? I do. And so either, here's what most people who reenter relationships like this, here's the mistake. We just want it to get back to the way things used to be. Yeah. We want it to be, I want it to be like, remember when we dated and remember when we laughed all the time and we made out wherever and remember our wedding

and remember all, we wanted to get back to the way things were. And hear me say directly, there is no going back. There is only creating something entirely new. Entirely new. You'll still have the memories, you'll still have the hurt,

you'll have new boundaries, you'll have some protective measures But you have to go all in Not in being who you used to be and him being who he used to be but in being Completely new people for one another so that you can re-engage this marriage And if you're not willing to do that, don't torture him He's got enough on his plate Yeah, is that fair that is that makes a lot

of sense are you willing to like um am i willing to let go no no no no no are you willing to say okay this is what was and it all fell down if you've listened to the show for any length of time you've heard me use the analogy about 9-11 Say, okay, this is what was, and it all fell down. If you've listened to the show for any length of time, you've heard me use the analogy about 9-11. We could never go sweep up all the steel and glass and wood and all the papers that were scattered for miles. We could never sweep all that stuff back up and use those materials to rebuild the Twin Towers in Manhattan. You have to excavate the whole thing. It all has to be moved out,

thrown into the dump or recycled. And you got to clear the whole deck out and you got to design and build something new. See what I'm saying? And what you're trying to do is to sweep up all that stuff and halfway through sweeping up the stuff you say, I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. And I'm not debating.

I bet, man, you could probably make my skin crawl with some of the things you've experienced. Yeah, definitely. The screaming in public,

the embarrassment, the sexual advances you didn't want even though you were married. Like all the stuff, man. Not to mention the stuff that you probably don't know about or have've chosen to not know about i'm not saying it's easy i'm just saying you chose to come back and if you chose to choose to come back halfway

to a guy who's trying to recommit his life to himself and to you that's cruel yeah you, that's cruel. Yeah. If I'm wrong, tell me. It doesn't feel like it's, I almost feel like I'm not choosing. Like I'm trying. I want to, I want to get better, but I can't help. It's like flashbacks. Like I see what he's capable of and it's hard for me to move on from that. That's exactly right. And so I'd recommend a couple of things here. Number one, you have to develop your own voice. You've got to develop your strength from the inside out. What does that mean?

That means you need to sit with a counselor and be open and honest about what you experienced. Get those things out of your heads, those flashbacks you say, those haunting memories, get them out of your head onto paper into conversation with somebody else. Usually in your situation, that's best had with a therapist.

You're gonna have to learn how to create boundaries. Very, very firm boundaries. Boundaries like you cannot swear in this home at me, period. If you swear in this home, you are choosing to leave or I am choosing to leave. You cannot hide money in our home. We will have one single joint checking account because we're married and we're gonna put the,

like, see what I'm saying? Like you will have to have really strong boundaries. And then you're gonna have to practice that when those lightning bolt thoughts pop in your head, the thoughts of, remember that time he started screaming in a restaurant and caused a scene because he was drunk like an idiot again, you stop and you exhale. Not doing that today. He's sober now. He's sober now. And I'm going to practice going back into restaurants with him I'm going to feel the discomfort in my body i'm going to lean into that discomfort I'm, not going to run away from it because otherwise if I keep running that discomfort becomes reinforced in my own physiology My body reinforces

So next time it'll send more thoughts and they'll be louder and more more obtuse and more graphic I'm going to remember, remember, remember. And I'm not saying you forget. You'll always know what he's capable of. The new building you build will have new reinforcements in it. And you can't base your health or wellness on trying to fix him. That's his work he's got to do with himself and his sponsor and his community. But if you're going to go back, you've got to do the work to be all in and be well. And honestly, I think you should.

I don't know what you've been through. So maybe if we sat down, I'd be like, honey, run, run. But just from this limited conversation, I think you're worth that. I think he's worth that. I think this marriage that y'all put you're worth that. I think he's worth that. I think this marriage that y'all put forth is worth that. But if you come back, you got to go all in. All in. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. And hey, during the break, I asked Jenna to go ahead and send Shelly Own Your Past, Change Your Future.

I think that's a great book for her to pick up and to read through so she can begin to work through what do we do now? Like the things have happened that have happened and there's a period there. What do we do now? So I'm going to send that book to her. And hey, don't forget to, as we're heading into the holiday season, we've got new questions for humans out. We've got books out. I'm writing a new book and I'm excited about it. And I'll have some more information on that. It won't be ready for the holidays, but don't forget to please share the episodes, five-star reviews. It's helping so, so much and more important than show ratings, way more important than show ratings. I don't see, don't even know how to go look for those.

Way more important than show ratings is new people are finding the show and new people are opening their eyes and realizing my marriage doesn't have to be like this. I can stop generational trauma. I can become the dad that I didn't have. I can pay all my debts off and I can live free. I can solve for freedom. Keep passing it along, man. Your reviews count. Your subscribing counts, man. It helps. So thank you. All right, let's go to Samantha, the home place of Alice in Chains in Seattle, Washington.

What's up, Samantha? Hi, Dr. T. Nothing much. How are you? Nothing much. Hey, listen, we can have a moment here, but this weekend, my Astros defeated your Seattle team. They did, but that was a really good game. You know, it was actually at a wedding reception. I'm like, we've now had two baseball games. It was a masterpiece. That's what my

daughter, she's like nine plus nine. We had two baseball games, dad. And I was, I was more impressed with her math than I was any of those teams hitting. So well done. Well done Mariners. Y'all represented Seattle. Well, all right. So what's up? Um, so this is a follow-up call from about a year ago. I think your team gave you a heads up. Oh, it sounded like. No, bring it, bring it. Let's do it. Either follow-up calls are usually are one of two things. Things have gotten incredible incredible and I got a new, a new question or things have driven off into the ditch and off into the ditch. Ah, okay. What happened? What's going on? So a year ago, I called you about my brother who, um, was using methamphetamine for several years, just kind of how to have healthy boundaries, but still have him in my life.

And that was a really helpful call, but now things have changed to where I do not want him in my life, but I'm having a tough time handling that. What happened? Sorry. No, don't be sorry. You're good. Take a minute. Take a minute. He was convicted of a crime where he, thankfully it was a detective, but it was attempting luring of a minor.

And I have two young girls. I have a two and a three-year-old, and I just can't have them in my life. And so, I mean, maybe it was a mistake, maybe it wasn't, but I got a hold of all the online communications and read through them because, you know, my mom and his girlfriend were like, it's not that bad. It's not, you know, oh, this is all a setup.

And I'm like, I don't believe you guys. And then, so I've seen it for myself. And I know intuitively in my head, this is not a person I can have around my family. But it's really a struggle. Hold on. Somebody along the way, possibly your mom, communicated to you that your body was not to be trusted. I want you to hold on to that sentence you just put forth

and put a period at the end of it before you get to the but. Intuitively, I know this is a person I do not want around my kids, period. Okay? Your body is worth being believed. Okay? Yes.

And I have a little girl too, and I'm right there with you. and so I guess I just I go through like bouts of anger and rage and then like deep sadness yep and I mean it's kind of getting cyclical at this point that my husband's like man it's like what's going on in your head and I'm like I, I just miss my brother. I'm sad. And then I keep reminding myself that my brother is someone that hurts children because I'm also a prosecutor. And I know the first time you get caught, it's not the first time. So it's really hard for me to grieve this loss of this whole family that I had envisioned with his daughters and my family. So it's just, I don't know how to deal with the anger and the rage and then the deep sadness, or I don't know,

maybe if I'm just right where I'm supposed to be. You're right where you're supposed to be. And I hate to tell you that because where you are is really painful, right? Yeah. Yeah. And you're a prosecutor. They didn't talk about this part in law school the part where you just sit in it and it hurts

yeah because even behind it all and behind all the pain and the drug use and all that it's your brother man and behind all that how do I communicate that to him huh do I communicate that to him huh do I I don't know do I

tell him this is it we're done uh you know it's just kind of he's still you know sitting in jail awaiting sentencing so it's here's the thing do I write him a letter uh I would I'd I write him a letter?

I would I'd probably write him several and I probably wouldn't send the first two or three or four I wrote but when you're processing rage and you're processing grief I want you to think of it like this you're in your house and your smoke alarm's going off so loud and you just need to get your bearings right

so you can focus on where the fire is. Okay? And so when you write that thing down, let it rip, man. It's probably not even going to be coherent and if it is, it's going to be rageful and ultimately not helpful except that it gets your rage out of your body onto paper.

And you can look at it and you can reread it. And you can say things like, I don't hate you and hope you die. And right, you see, you begin to parse it apart and you begin to demand evidence from it. Which parts of these are true? You can never be around my kids. You've burned that bridge to the ground. And that's a choice you made, not me. That's a choice you made, right? So you can begin to parse that stuff out. But right now it just feels like everything's on fire. And it should be, man. Your brother hurts kids. You know what I mean? It should be. Have you entered into Surrealville where you've thought about it so much and gotten so mad and had so many conversations that it almost becomes distant, like it's not real anymore? Yeah, so I do keep telling my, because time has gone on.

This happened the last, like, you know, the initial arresting was about a year ago. And so because time passed, you kind of forget. And so then I have to remind myself, you know, especially now that he's sober in jail and he sounds different and he's going to get all these different treatments. But I'm like, I mean, honestly, maybe this sounds bad, but in my head, I'm like, I wish you would have killed someone. I could handle you having killed someone easier than you hurting a child. And so I'm like, it doesn't really matter what level of therapy you achieve. I can't have you in my life. And that's just really hard. I mean, that's so final.

It is. And he made that choice, not you. You put up a boundary in response to his choices, but he has to own the choice he made. And you're just doing the next logical right thing that happens to hurt. And here's the deeper hurt. At some point, your parents are going to have to choose him or you. And it sounds like right now they're choosing him. Or he's become their cause or his their guilt and shame over how whatever happened

the addiction to this to the to the solicitation of minor they're taking all of that on their shoulders and so they are so thrilled by every new moment of sobriety and every new chip and every new therapeutic intervention because all of those are a road back to them feeling less burden and that's not what this is about this is about a guy who hurts girls little kids and you'll be damned if it's going to be one of years. Right? Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that Thanksgiving's will look

different and Christmas's will look different and you'll be guilted for the next X number of years. And here's the other thing. These things have dominoes and there may

come a moment when you got to, you got to remove your parents out of that conversation or another brother or sister, or you have to block his girlfriend. There are very, very few shoulds and have tos during grief. Grief, as Kessler says, is like a fingerprint. It's unique to everybody. And so when your husband says, Hey, what's going on in your head today? Just say, I'm heartbroken. I'm angry today.

And the shoulds are, you have to eat and you got to sleep and you got to have human contact and you got to move your body, right? You got to do those things that keep your body functioning so that you have an opportunity

to be well down the road. But right now is at that time. Yeah. How long is he going to go away for? One to 10 years, which is it's because he doesn't have a record, but he doesn't get sentenced till the 21st. What do you think it's going to be? I'm just more worried about probably more around

probably like the two year mark. Okay. I'm not so worried about the in custody part. I'm worried about what you just talked about, the aftermath when everyone sees, but he's getting better. And, you know, I'm a Christ lover and, you know, I'm all about redemption, but I, not at the expense of my family. I'm all, I am all about redemption and

I'm also all about not getting bit twice. And redemption in this case might be that you know, you show up to your mom's birthday party by yourself because they choose who they're going to invite. And when they say,

we just want to see the grandkids, you say, great. As long as there's not a convicted child abuser or child solicitor here, then the kids are welcome here. That's a choice you all make. And is here a matter of fact I'm making it? That's the goal here. It's just very simple.

Yes. I'm going to be around you guys. Do what? I have one to be around you guys. But one parent that understands. Do what? I have one, but my parents are divorced. One parent understands and the other doesn't. And the longer you try. Might just have to set a boundary. Yeah.

Yeah. The longer you try to convince that other person, the more exhausted and burned out you're going to get. This isn't a conversation. It's not. Trust my body. Yeah. Trust your body. This isn't a conversation. It's not a trust your body. This isn't a conversation about more data. This isn't a conversation about more facts or more. Oh yeah. What about this? What about this is somebody's son and they're choosing to focus on things that you're not focusing on and you're choosing to focus on things they're not. This

isn't a matter of, I just need to convince you or argue my position so well that you change your mind. It's never going to happen. So it's just stating boundaries clear. Yeah. If you choose to have him come over, then you're just choosing for your grandkids not to be here. You're probably choosing for me not to be here for a few years, but you're for sure choosing not to see your grandkids. That's all. Simple matter of fact. And then you go home and you weep bitterly because this isn't how it's supposed to be. Our family members aren't supposed to hurt kids. Our parents are supposed to look at situations no matter how painful they are and do the right thing and be honest and be whole. You can already imagine the future conversations you're going to have with your own daughters about your brother, which are scary.

You already know part of my brothers is me. If he's capable of right, man, then you get on that rabbit hole. This is grief. This is grief. if he's capable of right, man, and then you get on that rabbit hole, this is grief. This is grief. The greatest gift you can give to your husband is to be honest and open and explain it to him. Here's what I feel. Here's what I'm working on.

I'm gonna give you permission to talk into my life if you see me not doing okay, but also be gentle and curious with me. Don't judge me. I'm working through it. I want things to be different. And right now they're just not. I'm so sorry, Sam. So, so sorry. Golly. Thank you for loving your baby girls. They are so lucky to have you as their mom. We'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. Kelly, say what you just said. That was fantastic. I said, to me, friends are God's kind of apology for our families. Because sometimes we don't have great families. I have a sibling that is an issue, much like the last caller, very similar. And so I understand that. And I think sometimes God says,

I'm really sorry about that. Here's some really great friends. I'm gonna go with, I need a mulligan on that one. So I'm gonna give you some buddies. Here's some great friends. Make a family out of this. I just love that idea. My friends are an apology from God.

Sorry about your family. I'm going to go with a my bad on that one. Here we go. Here's a, let's take a, let's take a swift turn left. Oh man. All right. Let's go to Andrew in Traverse City. One of my favorite places on the planet.

What's up, Andrew? Hey, John. How you doing, man? Excellent. Excellent, man. I got some family in Traverse City, one of my favorite places on the planet. What's up, Andrew? Hey, John. How you doing, man? Excellent, excellent, man. I got some family in Traverse City. What an amazing, amazing place. Yeah, it's great. I'm shivering, though. It's a little cold already.

We actually got some snow in some places in northern Michigan today, so a little early for that. Wow. Well, congratulations. It's 111 degrees here in Nashville today. Yeah, rub it in. So what's up, man? All right, John. It's 111 degrees here in Nashville today. Yeah, rub it in. So what's up, man? All right, John, I'm hoping for your opinion on a health and kind of mental health related eating and diet question. I just really need some help figuring out why I'm struggling, craving like super unhealthy foods way too often right now.

Okay. And then kind of how I put some boundaries in place for myself around that. Excellent. What's up? All right. So I got a three-month-old baby, so I'm a little tired. Hopefully my details make sense. A boy or a girl? It is a little boy.

Can we just stop for a minute? Congrats, man. Thanks, man. It's our first. Really excited about it. It's all going. Okay. Perfect.

Perfect. Perfect. Okay. So first, three months in, you don't know what day it is and you it's like rocky four and he's like hit the one in the middle like you're just exhausted all the time and okay all right so here's some details i'm generally a healthy pretty active person i'd say i eat you know i eat healthy at home um but lately um maybe the past couple years i've just kind of been tuning into it a little more i've been struggling with like just wanting to eat unhealthy and then

eating out like unhealthy, like way too often now way too often is my opinion, but we'll get to that. You know, I I've noticed a pattern of, you know, when I'm stressed or anxious, I'm craving like specifically like fast food. Oh yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So the first thing is, again, I'm wondering if you can help me figure out why that is. Um But also, you know if you can give me some boundaries you'd recommend around cheat meals I've heard you talk about cheat meals and different things, but I feel like I just have an unhealthy view of food right now Sure, um, and it's super bothering me man. Absolutely. Well, thanks for calling it out and um Man, this takes a level of introspection

And what I mean by that, this is for all new parents or all parents going through particular life transitions with themselves, their spouse and their kids. Noticing, hey, I've started engaging in unhealthy behavior. I had this conversation the other night with myself about social media again. I've gotten sucked back into the vortex and I was like, man, I'm just staring at this thing all day. And so good for you, man, for noticing I am headed

down a trail that I don't want to go down. All right. So I'm going to give you what the science says so I can do one up on my opinion. And I'm actually going to throw out a hypothesis that I have that I've not confirmed scientifically. I don't know that it matters, but it makes sense to me. And if any of nutrition folks actually know the science here, I'd love for you to leave comments on YouTube or shoot me a direct message. So there is plenty of studies, a number of studies that show when we get tired, we crave carbohydrates, especially sugary foods. There's also studies that show when we are stressed,

when the stress cycle has kicked off, we crave sugary carbohydrate-laden foods. Also, the savory, the salt, and the fats that drip off a Big Mac. See, now you've got me thinking about fast food. And so you craving fast food right now is your whole life has been dumped upside down. Not to mention, not just the baby, but let's back up, man. Things have been wild for the last year, right? You found out you're pregnant. I mean, the whole world, it's been ramping and ramping and ramping. For sure.

And then suddenly it happens, and you're like, it's going to be like this. And it's nothing like you thought it was going to be, is it? No, not at all. You thought they only pooped twice a day. No. Exactly. A thousand. A thousand times a day.

So anyway, everything's in flux. So that's the science. So I tell you that to tell you you're not crazy. In fact, you are right in the middle of bell curve normal. Okay? You're exhausted. You're stressed. You and your wife are having to navigate a new relationship.

So you're married to a new person right now, and so is okay i want you to think about it that that it's that different now um you have a new variable in your home you've got new expenses you've gotten financial stress you like you know you've probably already done the calculation so if putin actually invades ukraine full-on or launches a nuke it would be this many years until, right, until the draft. I mean, you've probably already done those calculations like every parent has. It's a mess. It's a mess. Here's my hypothesis, okay? I think one of two things. When their fight or flight system kicks off, it actually pulls blood away from the digestive system and sends it to our muscles, okay? We don't need to be eating and digesting food. We are fighting or fleeing for our lives, okay? That's just how our

stress response system works. The cheapest, quickest forms of calories or energy. So remember, our bodies in fight or flight assume we are fighting something or running from something. It craves the simplest calories you can get, which is a cheap, simple carbohydrate. The problem is we're not running or fighting anything. We're just sitting in traffic or dealing with emails or changing another diaper, right? And our stress system is saying, we need more energy. We don't really.

We don't really because we're just sitting there. And man, there are sugary, cheap calories everywhere. And now they'll just deliver them right to your house. You don't even have to move. You don't even have to have real money. You can just push a button on your phone and it just shows up. You see what I'm saying?

So we now live in a world that your body was not designed to live in. So I think that our, and again, this is total speculation. This is just the story I've told myself. I think the fight or flight systems activation would, if I'm running for my life or I'm in the middle of a long protracted fight, grabbing something like a piece of fruit, grabbing some sugar in my body 5,000 years ago would give me a sudden burst of quick energy that would not take a lot of digestive energy and would allow me to get back in the fight. And man, a Twinkie is like a super version of that, right? Or an Arby's sandwich or French fries. Oh my gosh, French fries. Yeah, for sure.

The other idea I have is this happened last night. I'm writing a new book. It was midnight. I had chapters due last night. I'm out of energy. I'm out of gas. And I found myself down there. I grabbed a protein bar,

but it's one of those protein bars that are really like snickers bars They just shove protein in it and they trick you into I mean they lie to you and you go along with the lie That's some sort of health food when it's really not it was one of those kind of bars I feel like the sugar was a quick Energy boost for a body that was so taxed on sleep. I'm just exhausted right now Um, and so since I don't have my normal rest, my body is going to go for some cheap explosive energy really fast to try to prop me up until I can get to sleep again.

That's my hypothesis there. I don't know if that's accurate. I don't know that it matters. What does matter is the science says when you're exhausted, the science says when you're stressed, we reach for trash and we eat, we overeat too. We eat more trash than normal. Okay. Oh, for sure. So what are you, what have you tried to do to, to head this off at the pass? Well, I mean, it's gotten worse since, you know, my little guy was born three months ago and I think you're right on with that hypothesis. But I, you know, the things I've tried have been just like, you know, saying like, you know, no ahead of time and like, you know, taking different routes home and like

bringing extra food to work. And it feels like the issue I'm dealing with, you know, again, I mentioned, I've noticed this start over the last couple of years, of course it gets, it's gotten exacerbated by, you know, my baby is like, I'll come out of like a really tough work meeting or a really tough case or something like that. And it's like, man, if I just like go park somewhere and eat some fast food, I'll like be able to take a breather and like that dopamine or I'm not sure what exactly it is will hit and I'll just feel better and I'll drive away. And then now with a kid, I'm like, wow, this pattern is not good for me. So, you know, I'm not really answering your question, but I haven't tried many specific things. I was kind of hoping you could help me with that.

Yeah. Okay. So you nailed it. It's the, if I just statement. Okay. So the nerd, in the nerd world, here's what we're looking for. We're looking for the gap, the gap between stressful meeting and the thought that follows, which is I just need to get some satiating food and then I'll feel better. You need the gap between stimulus and response. Stressful meeting, Big Mac. Frustrating interaction with my wife, bag of gummy candies.

Screaming kid, I'm just going to go grab a pizza. We don't need to eat here tonight. Because you know on the back end, dopamine is about motivation. It's actually not about pleasure. Even I've been wrong on this. Andy Huberman has done a great job explaining this,

but there's no such thing like dopamine hits. That's not really how that works. Dopamine is a molecule of motivation. And the moment the ball gets rolled down the hill, think of it this way, like a teeter-totter. The moment it sits down and begins to, the other end, it starts to go up on the teeter-totter, dopamine gets, the lever gets pushed towards pleasure. As soon as you bite into that RB sandwich or into that piece of pizza, your body has to, has to flatten out that teeter totter. And it has one way of doing it pain.

That's why you feel ashamed. That's why you feel bad. That's why you feel. Cause it's got to hit the other end of the, of it. It's got to hit the other end of the teeter totter. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to opt out of the system completely because you know it's not

true. If I can just go get something to eat, it will make this last meeting feel better. That's a false statement. It's a lie. It's not true. And so you've heard me on this show say, demand evidence. Ask yourself, what is my body trying to protect me from? Identify the behavior. For me, it's trash eating too. It used to be calling old friends. It used to be checking it. Whatever your behavior is that you want to stop right before you do it, ask yourself,

what is my body trying to protect me from? Some people text old girlfriends. Some people grab another drink and then another drink. Some people just pick out their phone and start scrolling. Some people roll up to a pornography website or whatever. Ask yourself, as you're entering into this behavior, you don't want to do, what is my body trying to protect me from? Oh, I had a crappy meeting.

Makes me feel like I'm going to get fired. And then here's the magic words. We're going to demand evidence. Am I going to get fired? No. Or am I going to get fired? Yeah. If I don't make another sale, I'm going to get fired. I should probably look for another job, right? Or I should probably start getting on the phone. So we can solve that problem with actual things, actual actions that are going to work. But an Arby's sandwich has never solved anything. It just hasn't. Right.

Is that fair? Yeah, it is fair. It makes sense. I think you're on it. More tactically, I've had seasons where I took my debit card out of my wallet and gave it to my wife. Wow, yeah. Delete all apps off your phone.

When you're trying to change an addictive habit, you have to create systems that allow you to be successful. All the junk has to be out of the house. I don't have access to money. I just can't go. I can't stop there. And you're going to run out of gas at one point and it's going to be super annoying. And we're playing a long game with your health. It's worth the exchange. But in this early stage, that's why if you're an alcoholic, if you're struggling with alcohol, you got to dump everything down the sink. You got to get out of your house day one. You have to stop hanging out with people who go to bars day two.

You got to make some radical life changes. You do too. You're going to have to practice new coping behaviors. It may be after a hard meeting, I'm going to go for a walk. It may be after a hard meeting, I'm going to call a friend. It may be after a hard meeting, I'm going to pull out a journal that I got for like eight bucks at Walgreens. And I'm going to write down, here's what I felt in that last meeting. We're going to practice new coping. On the way home, I'm just going to swing by the gym for 15 minutes and do a 15-minute workout. That's it. See what I'm saying? We're building in things along the way that are going to become new habits for us to start. But you got to go scorched earth on the prevention side. Okay. I. I am not, I'm somebody,

and I've learned this the hard way. I can't do moderation or let me put it this way. I'm choosing for that not to be a battle that I fight. I've got too many other battles internally that I'm trying to deal with. So I have to say no. I've got to, I can't have some fast food sometime. I just, I can't, I just, I don't, I just have to walk away from it. If I do have it, I'm going all in, man. I'm going to get supersized. I'm going to get five fries. I'm going to get two versions. I mean, I'm going all in. Um, and I've made peace with that too. That's okay. I just do it so rarely now. Okay. This weekend, me and my son went and got a hotel. We went on like a little father-son hunting trip.

Dude, I ate myself into a coma. It was awesome. And because I'm playing a long game here. We had fun. We're making memories, being silly. And then I was back on the wagon this morning. Okay. You're not there yet.

Here's what I'm worried about. That food is becoming medication for you. Is that right? I think that's 100% accurate. Yeah. That's what I'm worried about, that food is becoming medication for you. Is that right? I think that's 100% accurate. Yeah, that's what I called. Did you learn that at home? Is this new? Where'd you pick that up from? I don't know. My mom had cancer when I was four and she had like all these different doctors having her on these like fad diets so that she wouldn't, they wouldn't come back. And I knew you were going to ask me that question. I was like, do I even bring that up or not?

I don't, I don't know if that's accurate or not. Absolutely, man. Hey, listen, listen how that's encoded in your body. That somehow food is the solution to fill in the blank. Is your mom still with you? Yeah, she, she made it. Yeah, man. Food solves everything

and intellectually you know that's insane and it's not that insane healthy eating is really good for you right and it's preventative in a number of different areas um but that's particularly encoded in your body food will solve this it's just become very perverted and now it's food makes me feel better. And then food makes me, uh, or I, I, I overeat and then I feel ashamed and then I want to hide. And then the whole thing starts over again. And so I'm not telling you to get a phobia about food i'm not telling you to Head down a disordered eating track or anything like that I'm, just suggesting that you create systems of the person you want to become I want to become a guy who's a good steward of his body

I'm going to create an identity that way and then i'm going to create habits that make that happen I'm a guy that doesn't eat that garbage Even this morning, um, my new friend jade warshaw here to create habits that make that happen. I'm a guy that doesn't eat that garbage. Even this morning, my new friend Jade Warshaw here, she had made these incredible vegan, whatever, kumbaya muffins that I think they did yoga over them.

I don't know. They were awesome. And they were dusted with essential oils or something. She walked by and she said, oh, you don't eat sweets. Like that's an identity I have around the office. And I said, oh, but today I will because they just look delicious.

And so. But are you making a conscious choice to step off the wagon at that point? And you're able at this point, you're where you can step right back on. Yes. And it's been years. It's been years.

Okay. And I also know often when I step back on, when I step off the wagon intentionally, that's one of my internal mantras. I'm a guy who doesn't fall off the wagon, but I will step off the wagon and roll around in the mud every once in a while. And then I'll climb back up

and I usually slip off the wagon four or five times trying to get back on. And then I get back on the wagon. But that's an identity I have. I'm a guy and I usually slip off the wagon four or five times trying to get back on. And then I get back on the wagon. But that's an identity I have. I'm a guy that didn't fall off the wagon. And that means I have to be really conscious of when I'm exhausted. Really conscious of when I'm stressed out. So, like I mentioned a couple times, I'm writing a new book right now. I started a new exercise program and a new eating regimen about a month out of this process.

So that when I hit this thing, I'd be ready to rock and roll. I wouldn't have to also be fighting my exercise routine and my diet routine. Does that make sense? Yes. That's just me trying to be intentional because I've routine. Does that make sense? Yes. That's just me trying to be intentional because I've lost, I've failed at every time. And all my other writing projects, dude, I end up just a goofy mess by the time it's all over.

And I'm just tired of reclaiming my life every time. So this time my identity is I'm a guy that takes care of himself and who's going to take care of himself through this entire stressful process. That's just where you are. And so if you think about it, I want to create an identity. I want to be this kind of dad. I'm a dad who's a good steward of his one body.

I'm going to teach my kids what that looks like. And while I learned that, I can't have any cash in my wallet because I'll go to fast food. Does that make sense? It makes 100% sense. Thank you. And by the way, you don't suck

and you're not a loser and you're not a failure. You're a first-time dad. You've never done this before. This is new. And you're pretty young, so this is probably your first or second big job. And this is your first time dealing with adult stress.

This is your first time being married to somebody who just had a kid. This is your first time not sleeping for months on end. All these things are new, so cut yourself some slack. You are way ahead of the game, man. You woke up three months in and you're like, whoa, that's a lot of Burger King. I should probably put the burrito down and back that thing up. Good for you, man. That's awesome. Let's focus on identities first, not goals. Let's focus on who we're going to become. And this is a great exercise for you and your wife too. Let's focus on who we're going to become. And then let's reverse engineer that with a series of behaviors. And food's not the enemy. Fast food's not the enemy.

Sugar isn't. I'm not going to war over sugar anymore. I'm just not. I got too much other stuff to do. I'm going to be about the things that I can positively impact because that's the kind of guy I want to be. It's the kind of guy you want to be. And you'll get there, man.

Thank you so much for your call. Holler back as you make this turn and I'll be willing to walk with you every step of the way. Thank you, Brother Andrew. Congratulations on your new boy. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings

and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. Hey, thanks for joining us today on the walking alongside me and our callers today as they are trying to figure out

what to do next. The song of the day is by the great one and only Michelle Branch. For those of you OGs who love yourself a little, existential singer-songwriter from back in the day. The song's called Everywhere

and it goes like this. Turn it inside out so I can see the part of you that's drifting over me. And when I wake, you're never there. But when I sleep, you're everywhere. Just tell me how I got this far. Just tell me why you're here and who you are, because every time I look, you're never there.

And every time I sleep, you're always there because you're everywhere to me. And when I close my eyes, it's you I see. You're everything I know that makes me believe I'm not alone. I mean, except in reality, you are alone, which is what makes dreaming so awesome. We'll see you soon. you