The Dr. John Delony Show - My 5-Year-Old Saw Us Having Sex

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: - A woman whose 5-year-old witnessed her and her husband having sex - A man unsure of how to handle his teen daughter wanting to get married - How financial expert George Kamel changed his life and his family tree Lyrics of the Day: "Meadow" - Jillian Edwards Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp Hallow Organifi Eight Sleep Apollo Neuro Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Building a Non-Anxious Life Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Our five-year-old may be traumatized after accidentally witnessing my husband and I having sex. Was it boring under the covers married sex or were y'all getting after it? I wish it was the boring under the covers What is up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show We are so, so grateful that you joined us Happy New Year to you I hope you're still hanging on to all of your New Year's resolutions You're changing some habits

Slowly but surely chipping away at new life. Hope you're doing well. If you want to be on this show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. And Kelly is out of the building again. Good to see you, Jenna. Yes, good to see you. How's baby doing?

Baby is growing. We're at 30 weeks now, so starting to count down. Very cool, man. That's amazing. That's awesome. Very, very cool. Countdown begins. And you're naming the baby John, right?

Not necessarily. Nope. But like mostly? Nope, not at all, actually. Wow, that's not what I was expecting at all. I'm just going to sit here in silence for a minute Well considering the fact that also my stepbrother's name is John That might be a little weird

Or a way to honor both of us at the same time I think it's fine Wow I wonder you millennials You and your disregard for legacy and tradition And honor and love and care My goodness Alright let's go out to Columbus, Ohio

And talk to Amanda What's up, Amanda? Hey, John. What up? Not much. So I've got a pretty big question here. I am worried. I am worried that our five-year-old may be traumatized after accidentally witnessing my husband and I having sex. I'm worried that there may be some negative downstream effects or just hoping I'm overreacting. Okay. I got to paint me the whole picture here. Tell me the story. Okay. So my husband and I are super careful about making sure that our doors closed and locked, but apparently her ninja skills,

she snuck into our bedroom and hid in our closet. It wasn't until I went to the closet to get dressed and flip the light on that I see her there with her face buried in her knees. So naturally, I go, oh my God, jump out of the doorway, throw on a robe and ask her, what are you doing in here? She apparently had a nightmare and had snuck in there before we got the door closed. Oh, she had a nightmare. All right.

Yeah. She had two nightmares, concurrent, we call it. Wow. Yeah. Okay. How comfortable are you with me asking real questions here?

Go for it. Okay. And this isn't me being, comfortable are you with me asking like real questions here? Go for it. Okay. And this isn't me being like just trying to be like I don't know, over the top. This is me like asking like for real questions, okay? Absolutely.

Was it boring under the covers married sex or were y'all getting after it? I wish it was the boring under the covers married sex or were y'all getting after it? I wish it was the boring under the covers. Okay, fantastic. Even better. Even better. So where she was sitting, technically she could have seen basically everything.

Lights on or off? there was tv light so it was illuminated yeah she says she didn't see anything well of course of course i mean 1000 and let's be like what you hear right i'm sorry What did she hear? There would have been some sounds, yeah. Yeah. We're expecting our fourth, so, I mean... I don't even know what that has to do with this, but that's fantastic. Oh, man.

So, again, I'm not trying to be gratuitous. I'm trying to get a picture of what this five-year-old experienced, right? What she saw, what she heard. All right, so... There wasn't, like, yelling or anything like that, but, I mean, it wasn't silent. Okay.

Do y'all... I mean, was there... Did she hear things that would have scared her? That's the question. Do y'all talk dirty to each other? Was there role-playing, or was there... You see what I'm saying? Yeah yeah i don't think there would have been anything like that okay that was just baby one and two not three and four all right so um she leaves you open the door on like um fully unclothed and there's your child how old is she five five um clearly in a like terrified

position right and you jump back grab a robe then what happens tell me tell me how you walked through with her what happened next so i brought her over to me and picked her up and just very calmly i was very careful about like my body language and tone, asked her what she was doing in the bedroom. And that's when she said she had had a nightmare. And then I asked her, did you see anything? She's like, no. And then I proceeded to say, well, if you did,

I'm really sorry if you did. That wasn't meant for your eyes. That's something that's for adult husbands and wives. Perfect. She hasn't said anything about it. It's been a week, but I'm worried. Yeah. So, okay.

You handled that about as perfectly as you could handle that. Okay. I'd be willing to bet 99.999% chance she did see some or all of of everything um and again there is a difference between we're under the covers and explaining that like she's seeing like what looks like under the covers wrestling if you will and in those kind of situations often what scares a kid is she sees a different face on mom or she sees a different face on dad that she's never seen before she doesn't have a she doesn't have a psychologist she has angry she has joyful she has frustrated she doesn't have ecstasy she doesn't have um that it's just

a different face right and so that often doesn't compute with a kid and it could scare them. Then there's explaining oral sex. And then there's explaining, oh, no, I like it when fill in the blank, right? That's a totally different conversation. And so I think you did the exact right thing. Number one, kids are going to absorb your body language. And so if you're not freaking out, oh my God, but it's like, no, no, no. We were totally partying and we're married.

It's what we're supposed to do. A, it's awesome. B and C, you weren't supposed to see that because that's for adults, that's grownups. And so you handled that perfectly. Kudos to you. High five to you. All right.

So did you ever walk in on your parents? Not that I remember, no. No, my mind blocked it out. All of it, all of it, all of it. Okay. So what makes you think this is a, you've ruined your child or you're going to scar your kid? I don't know. I feel like I worked so hard to try and like put up up safeguards like with using the internet and all that stuff just to make sure that they don't accidentally see like inappropriate or pornographic images.

And I feel like I've failed her in that because she witnessed that. Okay. I think the question you're asking is so important. And so I'm really grateful. Like, and so I'm laughing because I have a seven year old and a 13 year old. And to my knowledge, they haven't, I'm, I'm just laughing. Cause God almighty, like the, this can happen to all of us. Right. Um, but the question you're asking is really, really an important one. Okay. So number one, you and your husband rocking on till the break of dawn in your bedroom, in your home is not pornography. And I think we have a habit of dumping all sex

into something illicit. Is it too, is a five-year-old too young to see what she saw? Absolutely. No question about it. But there's a difference between her mom and dad and pornography. Okay? And so, A, you didn't ruin your kid. Your kid's going to have some stories to tell. Make no mistake about that. For sure. Like 100%.

But you didn't ruin anybody. Okay? Okay. like 100% but you didn't ruin anybody okay paint me a picture of the conversation Jill have had with her and your other kids about sex before or is this this the first time no so we are trying to make

it like a not necessarily common conversation but one that's not so awkward like they know correct anatomical terms that those areas of their body are not bad areas of their body. It's just there for them and not for other people. Okay. Um, that people shouldn't see it. People shouldn't touch it. Um, that sort of thing. Okay. Um, so you have done a great job of what I'd call priming the conversation.

I also think that this is the awkward part where parents wait for the kid to say something. I've heard parents tell their kids, if you ever have any questions, just come ask me, which is, you might as well tell your kid, never ever talk to me about this ever as long as you live, right? Because no kid's going to ask their parents after getting caught with like looking at pornography on the computer or getting caught like hooking up with their boyfriend or girlfriend or no parent no kid is going to be like all right dad i'll come ask and actually no kid's going to do that and so i think this is where you have to head directly into the awkward and um i like these along gender roles right now um i think it can um

it doesn't have to be but i i i think that's a safer way to do it right now given your home context but i would take your daughter out and make it something like kind of a special take take her out and say all right we have to talk about the other night and say, I'm not mad in any way. You need to not sneak into mom and dad's room. And you know that, but I'm not mad at you at all, but it is important for me to know what you saw. And if she says nothing, I promise, I promise. Say, I would push a little bit and see.

And if she doesn't want to see see I think then if you haven't explained Here's how sex actually works and um like Daddy's part goes inside mommy's part. This is how this works Um, then I would

Take that time to have that conversation there So you're going to start to give her language that she may not have yet, or she may have it, but not know if it's okay to say it out loud. And also here's the big thing. You're going to talk about sex and how it works and how great it is and the importance of what context it's good and what context it's not good. And more important than the actual words you're saying is she's going to

totally absorb your body energy. And if you are awkward and freaked out and scared to death and oh my gosh, I'm terrified to even be having this conversation. She will put a GPS pin in sex is not okay to talk with mom about. All right. I don't want that. Exactly. Right.

And also you probably don't want to, you don't want to explain oral sex to your five-year-old either, right? You don't do that either. So none of this is like awesome or ideal, but this is our role as parents, right? Absolutely. But the calmer you are, the more you smile, the more you laugh, the more you, what did you say? That kind of thing. And then being real clear about here's the context that's, I think is important for us. One last thing I would

add. Oh, so let me stop you there. So tell me, is that ringing true? Does that feel right? Um, are there, are there totally do that? That's not going to be a problem. Okay. Um, do you believe her that she didn't see anything or do you think she did? I think that she saw something and maybe got scared and hit her face. Okay. All right. One question that kids often feel internally when they catch their parents having sex is it appears to them that somebody's getting hurt. And so I think it's important to say, mommy was not getting hurt at all.

In fact, mommy's really enjoying herself in a private adult thing. And often that's the fear is somebody's getting hurt or I don't understand what's happening here. If she saw more than she saw more and y'all can kind of dig into that a little bit. And I wouldn't press it, but what I would do is maybe put a pin in it and circle back to it in a couple of weeks and then circle back to it in a couple of weeks. And, um, the safer she feels to have a conversation about it, then it will hopefully it will, it'll eventually emerge there.

You may also want to give her just a small bottle of bleach so she can rinse out her eyeballs. I know. I feel so bad. Oh, my gosh. Here's the last thing. Here's the last thing. I would. So.

I'm about to talk about Santa Claus. And so if you have kids listening to the show, you might want to shield their eyes. I mean, their ears from what I'm about to say. Three, two, one. All right. So I recently had a conversation with my daughter about, I need to have a grownup conversation with you. And it has to be a private conversation that I'm having with you. And we explained to her for several reasons that Santa Claus is not real and walked her through it and i every step along the way i told her we're having a grown-up conversation and this is not for you to share with your friends and i told her about a time when i was a kid and i blew it i told a bunch of my friends that santa wasn't real and i actually

hurt people and i didn't mean to i was just trying to be the know-it-all idiot kid. And so I told her that she can really hurt people and ruin some of the magic if she tells her friends, so this is just private between us. And she really took that to heart. And so I would reiterate with your daughter that this is private things. This is not to be shared with her friends at school. Okay.

And remind her she's only allowed to have secrets with you, with dad, or with the doctor. That's it. That's the only people she can have secrets with. But this one is going to be a private thing between you and dad and her. Okay. Is that fair? Yeah, that sounds super straightforward. I can do that.

And I don't mean this in a erotic way. So I would say like, I would like to, I would love for you to call back and walk me through how you and your husband, the next time y'all are about to hook up, that you start in one corner of your bedroom suite and just go every square inch. I can't wait. I'm scanning the whole house now. I can only imagine that's how that's playing out. That will never happen again if I have anything to do with it.

It 100% will. Hey, what about your husband? What did he have to say about it? Oh, he was slightly mortified, but he figured, he's like, oh, she'll be fine. Yeah. On behalf of mental health practitioners around the country, we thank you for your future business, Amanda. Both of you.

You may want to make a small account just on the side, just a high-yield savings account. You can put a little money in because she's going to need to go to counseling and talk about this, but not really. I don't think you, you, you've done such a great job norming, talking about body parts, norming what's okay. And what's not okay. Particularly norming grownups in a married loving relationship can do this, right. And it's okay. And you weren't supposed to see this.

This wasn't for kids to see. So you did great. Hey, if you are watching this or listening and you haven't had the body part conversation, there's a great book by Julie Federico. It's called Some Parts Are Not For Sharing. Some Parts Are Not For Sharing by Julie Federico. It's a tiny, tiny little book,

but it is a fabulous book to walk through. Really, really excellent, excellent book. Best of luck to you, Amanda. And everybody, check your rooms. And on behalf of your kids, lock the door. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about hallow. All right, I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around. But one thing you might not think about, though, is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't

consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love Hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app.

They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour, and you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the Hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it, and even I don't want to. This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself. And sometimes

you do this with a group and hallow helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet earth, hallow right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app. When you go to hallow.com slash Deloney, go right now and change your life. All right, we are back. And what, Jenna? Okay, so Andrew made a good point. At the end of that call, you said, now if there are any children listening,

we're about to talk about Santa. Yeah, children should not have been listening anyways. Just going to point that out. Just clarifying. That's actually a fair point. Hey, listen, all I know is this, is in one of the questions for humans decks, the question for is,

when did you find out Santa was a lie? And one of my friends, his kid grabbed that deck and was crying. And that person works here with us. And the kid and they went running in like what's wrong baby and was holding this card and so he just texted me a picture of the card and was

like way to go Deloney way to go so now talk to your kids about sex but for God's sakes trigger alert when it comes to talking about Santa Claus geez Louise and by the way while I'm here, very few things do I get more hate on the internet about than this idea of don't lie to your kids.

Telling your kids that Santa is real is not a lie. It's letting them participate in the magic of a cultural myth. Don't take that from your kids. Like in the name of, I'm never going to lie to my kids. It's not Jeez Louise Jeez Louise I ain't gonna do fake snow I ain't gonna lie to my kids

I'm not gonna let them play on AstroTurf football I'm not gonna lie to my kids That ain't real grass Let them participate It's fun It's fun The world has taken enough magic from our children At least give them Santa Claus for a few years

It's a blast Alright let's go out to Fort Collins, Colorado And talk to Brian What's up Brian? taken enough magic from our children. At least give them Santa Claus for a few years. It's a blast. All right, let's go out to Fort Collins, Colorado, and talk to Brian. What's up, Brian? Hey, Dr. Deloney. Glad to be talking with you. Glad to talk to you, man.

What's up? Okay, 17-year-old daughter, graduating in May. She has been dating her boyfriend for a year and a half. He's also 17. He's also graduating in May. They want to dating her boyfriend for a year and a half. He's also 17. He's also graduating in May. They want to get married. Oh, boy.

Next August, they'll be 18. By then, they are both planning to go to college, different schools, same area. And my wife and I have a lot of challenges, as you might imagine, around this. On your behalf, I do too. So, got it. Yeah.

Yeah, thanks. One of the many questions we have is how much we ought to be paying for an actual wedding ceremony next summer. I have an immediate response to that. And before I give it, I want to talk through like, how have your conversations been up until now? Like, how has this, how has this conversation addressed? Why do they want to get married so young? What are they, so what's the hurry? Like, walk me through that. Yeah, right. Conversations have been plentiful. I think they've been most everything's on the table. Honesty around this is a struggle.

I am scared. Just shared that with both of them the other night. I said, I'm not angry. I'm scared. And that's what you're seeing for your future. Because our goal is for them to be successful if they're going to get married. And we think there's maybe a better time in life to start with better odds, if I will. So the conversations have been good. It's been back

and forth. It's starting to feel a little bit like it's a compromise or negotiation with the timeline. And money's coming up, as you might imagine. They don't have any. And they're not going to have any being in school full-time. Right. Man. Man, I don't need to run through the data with you. You know, statistically, this is going to be a tough one. Okay. I think right now, there's kind of a two-prong approach. Number one is the one you're taking, which I absolutely think is right.

You're meeting with both of them. Both of them, right? And saying um, saying, Hey, we're just worried about you. By the way, before I keep going, what does his parents have to say about this? Uh, school's a priority, uh, for sure. And seemingly less bothered by the timeline. Okay. As long as the plan for education and, you know, succeeding there continue, I think we have different outlooks on overall financial support for them. And those have been separated into, you know, what's school financial support and what is're deciding to get married at 18 financial support look like, like a living. Right. Surviving.

Have they made a budget? Have you sat down with them to make a budget yet? Yep, yep, yep. Working on it now and also handing our daughter some expectations starting in January. So while she remains at home, while she adults and moves toward that, she feels what it's like to pay more of her share to start paying her car insurance in monthly installments. Some of that kind of thing, that's been a point of contention, but it's what we've done with the other kids. We've just had to accelerate this a bit because she's wanting to get married at 18. Our other two older ones didn't do that that early. We had a different timeline. So we're having to adjust those things as parents, which is, I can tell you, it's been tricky. This is some of the hardest parenting we've done. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're navigating it as well as you can. I think a gift

to them. So let's take marriage off the table. Let's take something statistically improbable with a high likelihood you get hurt potentially forever and a small sliver of success. Let's say your 17-year-old comes to you and says, I'm a world-class athlete and I'm going to the NFL directly from high school. I know there's some laws and rules about that, but let's just pretend they could do that. Not laws, but there's some regulations and NFL guidelines and things. But let's say they could just do that. You would be failing your kid if you didn't say, okay, the weight room just got real, real serious. Like, we've been taking it easy on you because you're going to have to get real strong to head out onto that field.

The workouts are going to get heavy. The responsibilities are going to, right? So I think it's important to look at this as like, okay, if this is happening, we're going to prepare you in the best way possible. And part of that is letting this 17 year old know if you're going to make adult decisions, it's going to come with adult responsibilities and those responsibilities have consequences to them. So I would be failing you as your dad if I didn't let you have some, a taste of that, some practice of that before you make this big decision here. And by the way, she's already thinking about being 18. She's still 17. She still lives in your house. Right?

Right. Six more months. Yes. How many? Six more months before 18. Yep. Golly. Can I tell you?

This is not the right answer, but I have a real thing in my gut right now that, well, I think this would be not probably wise parenting. You're hearing me go through this in real time, okay?

And I've got several competing things in my mind. I'm just going to speak them out loud. Is that okay? Please. Thank you. Thing number one is if you got six months, part of me would want to go scorched earth. You can't have contact with this person.

I'm cutting off your phone. I used to live in my house. And if you want to leave after six months knock your lights out And I know the hipster cool thing to do would be like well, you just gotta accept it so let's just ride this out and I part of me says no, you're 17. You're my child and I see the semi coming down the road at you And i'm gonna shove you out of the way with two hands and you may even break your arm when you fall But i'm gonna protect you from that car.

So part of me in my gut says go scorched earth. And then the other part of me knows after working with young people for 20 years that you have a strong possibility you're going to lose your kid doing that. Right? And so I'm thinking of this out loud in real time. And I want people to have a picture of what it looks like to think about something in real time. and I want people to have a picture of what it looks

like to think about something in real time. So I'm going to say this thing that my gut says to do, but probably is not the right thing. The second thing I think is right. You slowly turning up the weight of adulthood. Here's what this looks like. I think the question you're going to have to ask yourself, you and your wife are going to have to ask is the or what statement. Because if next August comes and you guys have put some hoops that they think that they'll go through, because I've heard it said, when you get married, then you lose college. I'm not paying for college anymore. You're a grownup. I'm not paying for your apartment. I'm not paying for any of this stuff. You're married now. I get that. And you also know as well as I do what happens when an 18 year old just gets let out into the world. Their opportunity, their need to go make money can turn into some

really bad choices very, very quickly. And so part of me says, I'm going to put hoop A, I'm going to put hoop B. Like as long as you're in my house, you got to work full time because you think marriage is going to be going on dates and stuff. It's lot of work because you're all gonna have to afford x y and z So when you get done for school, you're gonna have a full-time job And you might be able to see him on the weekends, but that's kind of married life, too And so let's just get after it and y'all come up with a dollar amount You come up with a support amount you come up with grades amount things like that But if i'm if i'm speaking honestly and openly I think

If they want to get married at 18, I have to make a choice. Me and my wife have to make a choice is do we want to be a part of these photographs or not? And I will probably choose to stand by my kid's side and give him the best chance of success. But that doesn't mean I'm going to throw a $150,000 wedding. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, we really agree with you. I'm so glad that we're chatting because several things you've said have been either intuition or we've already started talking. And it is that it's a dance, right, to support and love our kids.

And if I want to be successful of locking them out and not joining them is the wrong recipe for me personally. I'll be by their side. It's the wrong, it's wrong across the board. And I can't tell you, I can't count. I cannot count the number of parents who their kid who came to me when I was working at the university and sat down. This kid's 18 to 25 year olds and said, mom, I'm pregnant. Mom, I'm gay. Mom, I'm gay. Mom, I'm dropping out of school. Mom, I can't be a lawyer because I flunked out. And how many moms

and dads have come back and said, I would do anything to have my initial reaction back and have it be anything other than I love you and I'm here. And so I think your intuition is right. I think it's psychologically accurate. I think it's philosophically accurate. I think it's theologically for my particular beliefs. I don't know what yours are, but mine is accurate. I also think just signing up for a, oh, this is so great, as though they were 26 and they've graduated college and they have financial security, that's not wise either because you're setting them up for a fairy tale that's going to come to a crashing halt, right? Yeah, I think that's right on. Doctor is just finding that balance of real world expectations, a little bit of a, I'm going to say a sting. I don't even mean it to sting, but a reality check over the next several months of what this looks like. And then after that,

it's, it's tuition help, but then it's emotional support. Right. Um, I do. It really is because I, I don't, I, by the way, I didn't budget the next three years for this. Well, it doesn't pivot either. Yeah. And, and I also, um, I think now's a beautiful moment to say to your future potential. And now let's be honest. Um, when I was 17, I signed a hundred percent track scholarship at a university out of state, a hundred percent. I, um, had the season of my life and then I dropped the baton in first place. And I ended up losing the district track meet for our team by one point for the first loss in a decade. I then didn't ever want to step on a track again. I met a girl at a summer camp and moved states to pay to go to college. I ended up with a small scholarship and joined

their track team a little bit later. But all I have to say is who knows what happens in the life of an 18-year-old the next year from now, right? But it can sure feel heavy right this second, right? So I want to hold that a little bit loosely, but also prepping for, hey, this is what this is going to look like. We didn't plan for this. We didn't prep for this. And so you're not going to get $150,000. We're not going to blow the top off here. And by the way, this is my money. You don't have an entitled right to it. Son-in-law, my expectation for the man who marries my daughter is that we meet for breakfast once a week. That's happening. And I think you begin to treat him like the man he thinks he already is. If you're going to marry my daughter, you will meet with me once a week But here's book number one

How to be a good and you find a great book about being a man and provision and expectation and being a good partner I think you you set the stage for him And there is the daughter part and there's the raising the daughter part and she's my kid But I think there's a looking across the table at him and letting him feel the expectation. My father-in-law did that and we lived in different cities, but he did it in a unique way that I felt a responsibility to take care of his daughter. And by the way, she's smarter than me. She was making more money than me at the time. So that's not what I mean by taking care of.

But I meant you better be a person of fidelity. You better show up. Yeah. I love that idea. He asked, um, for her hand last week. Okay. Um, and I brought something like you set up. So you just affirmed my, my gut on that. And that's something that I, I think he's going to say yes to. I think he would get that. And the thing you didn't say, which really is important to me, is it begins creating a space for me to love my new son. There you go. And I wasn't going to say it because I wanted you to have to back into it, but this is going to be for you too. Because at some point your kids, I mean, the hardest thing in the world, I say this all the i mean the hardest thing in the world i say this

all the time the hardest thing in the world is when you love another adult and that adult is in your life and they're making decisions that you project out are not going to be good for them whether it's our our elderly parents the way they spend their money or whether it's our siblings not saving money or doing something doing you know messing abuses or 18-year-old kids deciding, hey, we're going to go to a really adult thing without any understanding of what's coming next. Yeah. But you making peace with it over time.

I don't know that you're making peace with it, but I think it's maybe you raising him up and he doesn't sound like he has a dad that's doing that. I love the idea with you saying, I'm not prepared to give you my blessing, but I'm going to, and you sit down and you meet him. And dude, I would challenge you to give him as direct eye contact

as you could possibly muster. And I don't mean this in a pissing contest or like an old Texas mail kind of thing. I mean, he needs to understand the weight of what he is taking on. He is asking to join with your daughter and for him to become the most important man in your life. And you're not just going to open your hand to that willy-nilly, right? And so I think there's something about saying, I'm not prepared to give you my blessing, but you can earn it.

And I think you're a good young man, but from this point forward, and I put a date on it, June 1st. If you meet me for a book study, you show up and help me with X, Y, and Z. You show me that you know what a budget is. You show me that you can honor my daughter in X, Y, Z. When you present how y'all are gonna manage college costs and without taking a bunch of stupid student

loans out, you can manage housing, you can manage some of these things, then absolutely. But just cause you love her and you're 17, that's not enough for my blessing. Love that. Yeah, I really love that. And then helps us, my wife and I pivot. It's really been about our daughter, as you might imagine in trying to figure all that out. But I think it's a her andable, by the way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Divorce rates in America. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It really feels aligned with our value set. And I think people are going to listen to this, by the way, and I want to be real clear. I had some coaches in my life. I've had some mentors that have challenged me on an athletic field, have challenged me across the table, have challenged me nose to nose. And it was never me versus them.

It was them with me calling me to something bigger than I even knew I was entering into. And so I think you saying, I'm not ready to give you my blessing yet because just because you like my daughter By the way, 17 year old you don't even have a clue as to what love is You bury a grandparent or a parent you go through a pregnancy you go through law now We're talking love but at 17 you like my daughter a lot. I get that

So you're not ready for my blessing. Here's a roadmap to get it game on And that is not you challenging him and sitting on the front porch with a shotgun that's stupid but that is you eye to eye nose to nose chest to chest calling him in right and that's a totally different ball game and i think being very very clear with your, here is the dollar amount that we can afford. We have not prepped or planned for this, and we don't have, period.

Here is what your next six months will look like, being a 17-year-old in our home with the intention of swan diving into adulthood. Here you go. If you don't meet this, I'll walk with you to the courthouse. I'll walk with you down the aisle, but. I'll walk with you down the aisle. But my dollars and cents are not going to participate in this.

Thank you for that. And so we're about to hand her in writing because she requested that. So that was smart. You know, the money part. Yep. And what that allows, the six or eight months allows, is a chance for that to be a learning, but also a reconsideration of choices if she and he want to reconsider timelines. Yeah.

And tell them. We're done with that fight. You know, if that's it, that's it. But here's how we're going to show up and we love you. And so maybe there's some influence with that. And I also don't, I wouldn't be opposed to saying, and you wait until 21, and y'all have your diplomas in hand, here's the number I'm going to put on the table for your wedding.

And by the way, if that sways them, that tells you how their maturity level, right? Yeah, we've wondered about that a little bit, and carrot-stick mentality, and it feels like really close to manipulation. Here's the beauty.

Do we want to manipulate a good outcome? It's your money. Do whatever you want to with it. Yeah. You don't owe anybody anything. Period. There's millions and millions and millions and millions of dads in your situation that would love to help a 25-year-old. Their 35-year-old daughters can daughters get married they have no money and so the fact that

you have some doesn't mean she's entitled to it i don't think it's manipulation at all i think it's very very wise to say i will be able to i will dad because i live by a budget your mom and i will be able to put 7500 towards a ceremony in August, period. If you borrow a penny more on a credit card, you will lose access to all $7,500, period. I'm not going to participate in you starting an already very challenging relational endeavor in the hole financially. I'm not. I can't support that. I'll be there. I'll stand by you, but I can't watch you start off in the hole like that. You can do whatever you want and then say, if you wait till you're 21 and both of y'all have your degrees, I'll make it 50,000. And maybe she calls your bluff, dude, you got to save some money over the next four or five

years, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're a mind reader too, aren't you? But listen, statistically speaking, they won't make it through college dating. And if they do, good for them. Good for them. Yeah. But I don't want you to ever lose sight of this is our money. And never let her know, like always let her know,

I will be at any courthouse you go to get married. I'll be wherever you are. My participation in that, though, is going to vary based on what I believe is your ability to pull this thing off. Got it. And those are two separate things. Is that fair? That's fair

will you call me and let me know how it goes? we will certainly try I love in fact I've never thought of this and I think I'm gonna I'm gonna try to implement it he may tell me to go pound Sam but I love the idea of

somebody comes to marry you know let's say some guy wants to marry my daughter and he asked for my blessing. I love the idea of saying, you and I are going to read this book together first, and we're going to meet over breakfast or whatever. And if you live in another state, then I'm going to fly out and I'm going to meet with you. This is that important to me. I want you to feel how important my daughter is. And if I can't afford a plane ticket at that time,

I'm going to drive across the country and you and I are going to sit in a cafe for a while. I'm going to ask you questions about love and fidelity and your pornography use. And I'm going to ask you questions about budgets and perspective education and perspective work careers. I'm going to ask you the questions that probably nobody asked you. And there's not gonna be perfect answers to them, but I want you

to know what I expect of myself and what I'm going to expect of the person who marries my child. My child can marry whoever she wants to get anything about that. But if you want my blessing, that's on me. That's on me. Blessings to you, good man. I'll be thinking about you guys. Hey, quick lesson. Stand by your kids, especially when it's hard. Stand by your kids. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst.

If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves.

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That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. Hey, what's up? We are back. We have a very special segment here. I asked my friend George Camel, who's got a new book coming out about finance and the chaos and the nonsense that we're seeing all over the place about it's the end of time and the dollar's going away and you should have a side hustle. Oh, you probably should have a side hustle, but

you should have a passive income, just all the stupid stuff. So I asked my friend George, I was like, hey man, come onto the show with me. And A, I want to introduce you to our gang, but B, I want to behind the curtains look at you, the author of this thing. What in the world is happening with our money? And by the way, George is somebody that I call on the weekends and I'll say, hey man,

I'm about to move this money over here. What do you think about this fund? And he'll say, yeah, absolutely do that or don't do that. So he's somebody that I trust with me and my family's money. So I'm excited to have him on. We're going to just do a segment with him and

I think you're going to get a ton of value and he's hilarious and he loves telling everybody that we're best friends and we are not. Just kidding. We kind of are. Not really. Not even close. But we did go to the Blink-182 show and had to push his Tesla down the highway when it ran out of battery.

Please welcome George Campbell. What's up, man? Hey, thanks for having me on. It's good. This is a first time for me. I'm kind of nervous. I've never been on the John Deloney show. We've done a lot together, but not in your territory.

Why does it make you nervous? I just feel like I'm not in control. That's probably it. Whenever we do things like- I should probably see someone for that I've been telling you for a while you should um man you never been on ever?

no you never invited me I didn't want to remind you here but now no better time than the present but it's an honor I'm a big fan and it's nice to be like inside of the show you're not a fan you never listened to my show one time I listen you've never listened one time it's fine we work together you a big fan, and it's nice to be inside of the show. You're not a fan. You never listen to my show one time. I listen. You've never listened one time.

It's fine. We work together. You hear me run my mouth all the time. But usually I need to watch comedy. You know what I mean? I'm looking for uppers. Sometimes the show is heavy. And we take enough of that on the Ramsey show together.

So I get my dose. A little downery. I get my dose. Of my downery? Yeah. But I do love it. It's a gift, George. It's an honor. It's a gift. You just had a baby. Yes. First kid But I do love it. It's a gift, George. It's an honor.

It's a gift. She just had a baby. Yes. First kid. Tell me about it. How's it been? It's been hard. I will say that.

Harder than I thought it would be. Whitney had a really hard pregnancy, and the delivery was great, and the baby's healthy. That was all great. But then she got mastitis, and that turns into scarlet fever, which I didn't know existed in today's world. And that turned into an abscess and like a minor surgery. And then the baby got the tongue tie thing. And so there was always just another like hard thing in an already hard season where you're like not sleeping.

You're in kind of teammate mode instead of marriage mode. Yep. It's just survival mode. Yeah. It's like, did you get that? You get the hatchet. I'll get the rope. You get the dogs.

I'll get the baby. Who's dropping the, you know what I mean? it's just a lot of logistics and not a lot of connection uh and in between there's some really sweet moments you know with the baby and all that but it has been dramatically more difficult than i thought and so i have a newfound respect for parents i used to like dog parents and be like you know me i'd be like i'm a dog dad i know how hard it is and i i ain't i wasn looking to say that you and I have had that conversation. You're like, John, I've got two French bulldogs. Yeah, God fed me some humble pie.

You're in the middle of, you're releasing your first book, which is chaos, right? And you're hosting your own show and two other shows, right? So, I mean, life's bananas, right? You and I are heading off on a speaking event coming up. So it would be chaotic for any person on the planet. Then you throw a newborn in there and then you throw a very difficult first few months with the health of your wife, all the chaos that goes with that. Um, there's something about, I don't feel like anything. I don't feel at all. I'm just going to keep doing the next right thing. I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to make sure I fill in the blank. I'm going to make sure I exercise, which I know you don't do. I'm going to make sure I do this, which whatever, but I'm going to keep doing those things and I'm going to march along even though I don't feel like it. And well, now it's the time where it's easiest to veg out and stare at the screens and play a stupid game on your phone instead of doing

the hard thing. Like you talk about the daily choices. It's the worst. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. Like if I had slept good, maybe I would work out today, John, but I didn't sleep good, so therefore, you know what I mean? Right, yeah. Just doing it out of discipline and sheer habit is just so hard.

But it's on the other side, your daughter will wake up at one years old or nine months and she'll look at you and then you'll have, yeah, that's probably a good way to think of it. You're going to be, she's going to be one. Regardless. Regardless. And the then you'll have – yeah, that's probably a good way to think of it. You're going to be – she's going to be one. Regardless.

Regardless. And the choice you get to make is how will I have shown up for her when she turns one. When that light bulb comes on, and it comes on before one, but when that light bulb comes on, will I be all in or will I be a ghost of who I was, shell if I used to be, right? Well, and truthfully, that's been the biggest struggle in our marriage right now is Whitney being like, hey, look her in the eyes. Like, be present with her. Don't veg out on your phone while feeding. You know what I mean? That's been difficult for me. Yeah.

After a long day of work and you just want, you know, you want to veg out, but you're like, I need to connect with this baby. Like, that's what's important to me. Yeah. I know I should do it, but my brain is occupado. Yeah. Or I don't know how. It's a tool set. It's hard.

I'm used to having conversation. Let's have some wit and banter. With a baby, you know, I'm making sounds. I'm singing. I'm doing all the things I know how to do to see what she reacts to, which is fun. So you've got a – you sat down in a room over the last year and wrote a book. About what? Well, it was a tough task to write a money book at Ramsey Solutions.

There's this elephant in the room, you know, big shoes to fill when you have the total money makeover, the best-selling personal finance book of all time. And you're like, I'm going to write something different and better. You know what I mean? It's not even big shoes to fill because the feet are still in those shoes. Exactly. It's still sold in the same bookstore. And so my goal was not to like rewrite the Total Money Makeover. The goal was to write a book that feels like I am speaking to everyone in current times.

Of like this is what the current state of personal finance is. Here's the real problems America is facing. Here's why people are saying they can't get ahead. And here's what I know to be true. And so it was a lot of, you know, I start with my story of how I started broke. I didn't come from money. My parents were immigrants. I was $40,000 in debt. And over a decade of just hard work and following a proven plan, my wife and I are now net worth millionaires. And it's not to brag. It's to say, if an average George can do it, you can too. But here's what it takes. The gap between financial stress and financial peace is littered with myths and distractions and traps and noise. So my goal was to cut through all of

that and tell people the truth about the financial system designed to keep them broke. So the truth about credit scores and credit cards and student loans and auto loans and mortgage traps and investing traps and marketing and consumerism so that they can break free from this matrix that they find themselves in. And some, for a lot of people become self-aware for the first time that they're even in this matrix. That's like, this is a simulation, bro. You got, you can opt out and they go, what do you mean? I don't have, I need, I don't need a credit score. That's jarring to a lot of people. And so I walk it very carefully because I know what I'm saying sounds insane to someone who has been in it their whole life like I was. But to deprogram that, to break free from that and achieve all of your financial goals and become the person you want to be and to give the way you want to give, that's what the book is all about. It's not really about the money.

We have to talk about money so we can stop talking about money. Gotcha, gotcha. about. It's not really about the money. We have to talk about money so we can stop talking about money. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, how do you, I feel like there's two different competing anxieties here. The anxiety that you and I talk about all the time, which is your body knows that you owe somebody money. They're your master. They own you, right? And like, if you don't do X, Y, or Z, they take your house, they take your car, they take your food and your body knows I'm not safe in that situation, regardless of how good the deal is. There's also this competing anxiety, which is this inner desire to connect other people, to be a part of a tribe. And the entire culture says, if you don't have a new car, we, you and I were in a conversation the other day with somebody like, well, what do you want me to get a car with a hundred thousand miles on it? And we're like, we both have that. Yeah. What are you talking about? And it was like, you're not, that guy wasn't stupid. A guy wasn't entitled. That guy believed a story that he'd been told, which is you have a car that has more than a hundred000 miles. You are being unsafe to you and your family.

Right. If you don't have a house with every kid with their own room and their own bathroom, you're failing your children. So I have to compete here, right? One of these is I know my body needs safety. The other is I don't want to be the only one, right? I don't want to be the only person not doing these things. What do you tell somebody that says, I can't operate outside of this world? Well, number one, are they open to new information?

Because if they're not, it's a pointless conversation. There you go. So you have to go like, hey, my way isn't working. I'm curious to know how this way works because that sounds more peaceful. The goal of this book when it comes to helping people avoid some of those traps, and I point out the three stooges of wealth building is what I call it, but I think it applies in life. I'm sure this applies to mental health. Pride, fear, and greed. Those are the three traps I find when people are trying to build wealth, but also when it comes to

personal finance, they go, yeah, but I'm smarter than that. I'm going to be the guy who pays off the credit card every month and doesn't pay interest. Great. The credit card company loves that you believe that that's you winning, is that you're not paying interest and that somehow your life is going to be great and you're going to build wealth. Fear is a big one. There's a scarcity mindset that we see with a lot of people. I never had money, so I need to keep stacking. Even when you're doing well, there's like this never-ending chase for the goal post has kept moving well we have a million but really we need two million now because we factor in inflation so we need four million when you and so it never ends there stops yeah and then you have greed which is i want to make a million dollars in the next five

years and if i don't and crypto is the answer because i can't wait for a mutual fund to grow in a retirement account. And so there's this element of I can do it faster and I'm smarter and pride, fear and greed I've found is what causes people to fall right on their face. And it's one of the reasons we have to have the nice car because I can't swallow your pride and drive a beater next to your coworker who's leasing the luxury vehicle. It's embarrassing. That's the lease is making the car company very wealthy. And I want you to think, I just bought a car with cash and the finance office called me and they're like, we're really concerned. Why aren't you financing this? She was like, well, you should lease it. That's what I do. It's the smart way to do it. And I'm like,

I don't know how to tell you this. I had to be like, listen, I host a show where I tell people not to lease cars, that it's the stupidest way. And so in all the kindness, but it just made me remember how much work we have to do to untrain people's brains to go like there is a different way and there's a better way. There's just so much pain out there and we take the brunt of the calls where like life didn't happen the way it looked on paper. Like, well, if I do this deal on Airbnb, I'm going to make so much money. And they call and they go like, we can't afford the payment. And the tenant screwed up our house and the car is getting repoed. And we're on the other end trying to help them pick up the pieces. And it's one of the reasons we're just like debt equals risk. Less debt equals less risk. Don't owe anyone money. Your life's probably going to be less stressful. The hardest challenge I think is that I wrestle with

in the conversations we have about money is when I talk to somebody, most of the people we talk to have never been on the other side. So I've been to your house and you have a very nice home and an extraordinary neighborhood. And you could go to the bank today and probably

qualify for four or five x the home you're in right now does that weigh on you at all no and i think it reminds me of uh dave was on our friend graham stefan show and they asked him like if you could borrow a million dollars and guarantee that you would get this much return, would you? And Dave was like, no. And they're like, why? We just told you you're guaranteed to make this money. And he was like, I don't borrow money. And it was such a mic drop, bad A moment of Dave just being like, I actually live by a set of values and principles to where I'm not starry-eyed by what could be and what the bank

could give me and what investments could make. He's at peace with where he's at and so confident in his plan to build wealth that nothing could sway him. And to me, that is like invincibility. And so that's what I feel. It's being anchored into a value. Yeah. On a much smaller scale because my wealth is minuscule compared to Dave Ramsey's. But there's such an amazing feeling going like my next home, I'm sure we'll move one day into a bigger, nicer home. Maybe we're going to pay cash for it. And that means it's not going to be a home that is 4X because it's going to take a while to do that at the speed of cash. But what I will have is peace and the muscle to save to where I'm like if we need to save for anything it's not going to be a problem like saving for a

$20,000 vacation or like save for pay someone's adoption fees it's just going to be another little goal and we go yeah we know how to do that but someone who's never done that they can't fathom even saving up $10,000 to pay for a car what they can fathom is paying $400 a month for the car payment so it's a shift

mentally you got to make. You host multiple shows. You're a public figure. You travel the country speaking at events all over the place. And this morning I had to run to Walmart to get something and talk to the person who's stocking shelves in the morning. They're like, that's cute, bro. I'm like, cool. I paid off your car, paid off your house. Real cool.

I work at Walmart because I have to. And my dad left. This happened. This happened. This is the job I could get. I make $18 an hour. And I'm really grateful to have it. This kind of book works for y'all. I appreciate it, man. But I'm trying to make groceries and I got to get a car. Like, talk to that guy. Well, I have deep empathy for those that feel like there's a certain kind of person

that can get ahead with money and it's not me. Because I remember feeling that way. I thought you were born into wealth or you just never have it. And wealth is a very generic term. To me, wealth just is freedom. Do you have options? Do you have margin in your life? That's a good point because wealth to me means more than I've got right now. You know what I mean? It's so relevant. Because I'm always chasing a feeling. Wealth to the person at Walmart is if I can make $20 an hour, it would blow my mind. And the goalpost always moves. When you make 20,

it's like wealth is now 25 an hour. It's always more than I got. Exactly. Instead of saying, no, I'm at peace. Yeah, that's good. So the hard thing for those people out there who feel like this isn't for me, this plan, that's nice, but I'm too broke for this or I'm too wealthy for this. There's this, like,

everyone says this is not for me. The day you realize you're not special in the best way. Yeah. Yes, you're uniquely made by the creator, but I'm not special as far as this plan not working for me. To math. To math. And so here's the best thing I can say to that person is that it's not all your fault, but it's your responsibility. And that's a tough pill to swallow. Not by your hand,

but in your lap. Yes. And so in parentheses, not all your fault. We have to own the choices that we've made that have got us here. Even if those choices are, I saw my mom and dad handle money the wrong way and I fell for that. I thought my parents were going to pay for college and it turned out to be student loans in my name. We hear those stories all the time. But the decision you have to make is I have agency and autonomy over my life. Most people feel like life is just happening to me and I got to do whatever the lenders say and I got to do whatever my boss says. But when you realize I have control, not just when it comes to like what I do with that paycheck, but what career path I choose and how much effort I'm going to put in and what

opportunities I say yes or no to and the decisions I make or don't make when it comes to those dollars and who I decide to hang out with. when you start to control those inputs, you get this little thing called hope where you're just like, oh, I can dial down the noise of the social media gurus. Or if I can believe that, man, if I just go learn on YouTube, learn this skill, I can go apply for that job and make double what I'm making now. But people have just had the belief beat out of them. They're just hopeless. They're cynical. And they think like, this is the world we live in, the economy, and it's the boomers. And I talk about that in the first chapter of the book. I lay out every single objection and excuse that we could point fingers at, and it feels good. It felt good to write it. It was cathartic. I was like, yeah, man, the housing market's insane, and college tuition's

out of control, and the Fed, and Congress, and the guy in the White House. And at the end of the day, it was just – when I point back at me, it was like, oh, gosh, not me, not me, not me. Back to the other stuff. Right, right. It's not fun to pull up that financial mirror to go like, okay, even if you're not the entire problem, you are the entire solution. Yeah. And we know that. Like forgiveness from the government is probably not going to happen. Like inflation is not a dial I can control.

But what I can control is I'm going to do that side hustle to get out of debt for the next two years. And then I'm going to bust my butt and save up and I'm going to get married and we're going to combine finances. And now we have two incomes and now we're going to make a little more progress and a little more progress. And it might take you a decade and you wanted it to take a year. And we know most people, they overestimate what they can accomplish in a year, underestimate what they can accomplish in a decade. That was my story. Didn't happen overnight. It took 10 years.

For some people, it'll take 20. That's okay. Run your own race because when you run other people's race, there's no finish line. That's the problem with this kind of comparison mindset of like, well, John's, you see the kind of car he has and the kind of house he has. Dude, like he doesn't pay your bills. You don't know what he's going through. And so it gave me great peace. And for that person who's feel stuck to just go, all right,

I'm not going to compare myself. I'm going to tunnel vision and go, what is the right next step for me? And I think that's the reason that's so important is, um, strangely, and it's weird to admit this. I, when I spent all those years working in higher education with students, the conversation was so much in my lap. What can I solve for them? Bring me your challenges and I'd make that happen. But it was an eye-opening moment for me a few years ago when I was sitting somewhere saying, hey, every time I've sat down with a family who's about to lose a child, every time I've sat down with someone who just lost a loved one, every time I've sat down with somebody who was marginalized because of any number of reasons, society's kicked them to the margins. So we don't want you here. I always sit in those moments and they're heavy and they're dark and they are filled with tears and it could be two hours, it could be two months, it could be two years of conversations.

We always land on the same question. What are you going to do now? And it was when I sat here with this money thing because I was always, for 20 years I've been wondering what Washington is going to do about this stuff. And I knew – I know Dave Ramsey principles and all that, but I kept saying what's the right monetary policy and what's this and this. You were coming at it intellectually. Right. Instead of looking in the mirror and going, okay, dude, this is the way this is right now. What are we going to do? The house is on fire.

And it's like sitting there and watching it burn and being like, when is the department getting here at some point you got to go hey they're not coming they're not coming or they're gonna get here it's gonna be too late get the family out of here let's get all our stuff out of here and so i think it's important people to know in this book you a walk through we call them traps and stuff and you and i laugh about it because we live in this world but i think it's like i have family members that genuinely had never heard that a credit score is a scam they didn't know that that generally did thought they were missing something when they didn't understand crypto like i'm behind or that they don't have a rental property that they have are 100 leveraged on.

So they feel behind and they're just screwed. Yeah. They feel completely hosed. And so, A, you walk through all these excuses, all the things that were told that aren't true. And then you walk through what I think is more important is a plan. Here's what you do, man. And I wish it was more complicated than that.

Here's a plan. And it's not hard. It's hard, but it's not hard. It's hard, but it's not hard. It's simple, but not hard. Yeah, and chapter nine is where we move from the system to breaking free from the system. So it's chained to the system. Here's all the things that you're chained to. And then I'm going to show you how to break free.

And so I talk about budgeting is freedom. Spending is self-control. Margin is breathing room. Savings is peace. Debt is a thief. Wealth is patience. And my favorite is generosity is joy yeah is what the whole thing kind of points to and in the book like the fruits of the spirit is the

verse i use on the on the flap on the title page because truthfully i feel like that's what we're all striving for we want peace and joy and self-control that's what we're aiming at and money is just an obstacle instead of a tool to help us get there. So if we can remove that obstacle and transform it into a tool to where we go, we don't have to worry about money. We got time now. We can connect with our – we can build those relationships that were broken. And you also loosen the chains of your employer running your life, other companies running your life, even in some ways, not legally, but the government running your life. Like, we're going to raise interest. Okay. I don't borrow money, so

okay. Yeah, when Dave Ramsey has a 0% interest rate because he didn't have a mortgage, he's not as concerned. Or when they say, what's your credit score? He's like, I haven't looked at 30 years. I don't know, and I just don't care. Right? Finally, we have to solve this important thing, and then we got to go.

There's a Reddit thread about this. There's a great conspiracy across the country we need to clear up. Let's do it. Are we actually friends? Oh, gosh. I ask myself every day, honestly. I think it changes. I think we—it's one of those we love each other, we don't like each other.

I don't love you. I think I like you, but I don't know what goes for the love. You like me, I love you. It causes some tension. It causes a lot of tension. But yeah, on the show, and here's the back story, John is mean to me. I'm going to put that in air quotes because I've actually been bullied in my previous life when I was a kid. What John does is a defense mechanism that I see through instantly.

Oh, okay. You see me as a threat. That is correct. My masculinity is a threat to your masculinity. It is a defense mechanism that I see through instantly. Oh, okay. You see me as a threat. That is correct. My masculinity is a threat to your masculinity. It is a threat. Well, you have a perfectly groomed beard, and I just can't grow facial hair. There it is. Instantly, I'm into it.

I'm waiting for you to just come out with this. You have biohacked your eyes with these devices called glasses. I don't have those. You have perfect vision. I just have blurry vision. It's fine. Wait, the truth is I think I'm your friend. I'm your friend. I'm your friend

I think you're my friend. We text each other outside of work. You send me articles that you find interesting I pushed your Tesla down the highway when it ran out of battery. That's a true friend. That's what friends do So on the show, we're not good at showing it truthfully. You know what I mean? I like it We're not good at showing each other affection live on air But I like it and it's kind of a bit too like when It is. I'm here with my best friend in the whole world, John Deloney, and you're like, we're not friends. That, to me, is a bit. But they don't get to see us at the Blink-182 show

singing our hearts out. Rocking out together. So I think that squelches it. Oh, we're going to edit that part out. We're not going to let this part go live. Hey, Breaking Free from Broke, George Campbell's new book. Thanks for writing this. Thanks for the support, man. You get mentioned at least three times, and I apologize.

I do call you a mediocre guitar player in the book. I think mediocre is— But it's compared to Slash. It's very generous. It's compared to Slash. I'm not even mediocre. But I do have some great quotes from you that are very helpful, and there's so much that aligns when it comes to what you're doing

and what I'm doing in the money space. We both want people to solve for freedom, and I know this book is going to help you do that with finances. So thanks for helping me spread the word. You're awesome, brother. You're a great friend. I agree to disagree. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com.

All right, we are back. And that was my friend George Campbell in that last segment talking about his brand new book, Breaking Free from Broke. If you're struggling with money and it's hard to, let me just say it this way. It's hard to have a good marriage when you're broke. If you're fighting about money, it's hard to be a parent that can plug in with your kids. It's hard to be good out on the dating market. I hate to use that language, but it is what it is. It's tough to do just about anything when your body's telling you you're not safe because of money. Go pick up George's book, Breaking Free From Broke. It's out tomorrow everywhere. We'll link to it in the show notes. You can go anywhere and buy it. But it's good. Go pick it up.

Go pick it up. And as we wrap up today's show, George mentioned a friend of ours, Jillian Edwards. A song that he plays for his sweet, sweet baby every single night and that he sings. He doesn't sing very well, but he sings. At least he's a dad that sings to his kid. The song's called Meadow by the great Jillian Edwards, and it goes like this. Your love is a meadow. I'm free to run

around it. Barefoot on the soil, I'm feeling like a child again. What if there's nothing to be afraid of? I think you're closer than my blood. What if you're in the lines on my hand? I think your heart is beating in my chest. I need to, I need only to breathe in your love. I thought you wrote this Kelly, when you put this on my Christmas card and I'm kind of heartbroken that Jillian Edwards wrote it. Real cool. Love you guys. Stay in school, learn new drugs. Bye.