The Dr. John Delony Show - My Addiction Is Ruining My Life

Episode Date: October 14, 2022

Today, we hear from: - A man caught in a nasty sports betting addiction - A woman who’s never felt confident in her marriage - A mom struggling to understand her teen son’s rebellious behavior Lyrics of the Day: "We're Not Gonna Take It" - Twisted Sister Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm 23 years old and I've been gambling on sports since I was 12. It has ruined every aspect of my life, shattered everything. I just can't kick it, man. I'm just feeling more and more defeated. I can hear it in you what up what up this is john with the dr john galoni show the greatest marriage and mental health and relationship podcast ever created um hey listen one of the greatest ways you can support this show with no money,

you don't have to send anything, just to hit the subscribe button. If you'll just subscribe or if you will go to wherever you're listening to this on podcast and just give a five-star review, I'm all about lying. I'm all about you thinking, this is actually a three-star show. And that's actually pretty generous too. But you're going ahead and hitting the five. I won't tell. I think you have a cosmic pass to give us all. Listen, Kelly needs this.

That's just, that's what this comes down to. Kelly needs this. But hey, it is a no cost, easy way for you to support the show. And I'm super grateful for it. And what it does is it kicks it up into the algorithms and it makes it available to more people who are searching for things that this show can help them with. And so it's less about vanity.

I've got a 12-year-old and a 6-year-old daughter. And my vanity is out the window. Hey, listen to this, Kelly. Yesterday, my daughter and I were playing air hockey and she beat me. And we were yelling and trash talking and going back and forth. And then on the way up the stairs from the basement, she looked at me and goes, Hey dad. And I said, yeah. And she goes, what's wrong with you? So listen, I don't, I, this isn't for my vain glory. This actually helps other people get the help that they need when they go searching

for these topics. So leave your five-star reviews, hit subscribe, and I would be really, really grateful. And by the way, I'm a part of a network that's got all kind of different shows on it, whether it's shows about career or how to deal with your money, all kind of things. So check out the Ramsey Network for other shows. All right, let's go out to Baltimore and talk to Kevin. What's up, Kevin? Hey, Dr. John. How are you?

I'm all right, brother. How are you? I'm all right, brother. How are you? Pretty horrible, but I feel very fortunate that I'm able to speak to you today. Well, man, let's get into it. What's up? So I'm 23 years old, and I've been gambling on sports since I was 12. It has ruined every aspect of my life, shattered everything. Um, and you know, I'm, I've listened to a lot of your stuff and, you know, I've, I've done a lot of things to try and put myself in a position to get better. Um, I've gone to GA, I'm still going to GA. Um,

I've seen a therapist, um, that specializes in this kind of thing. But I just can't kick it, man. And I'm feeling, I'm just feeling more and more defeated by the second, by the minute, by the day. So I'm just hoping that maybe you can give me any wisdom or just advice to maybe help me out. Yeah, man. I can hear it in you. Yeah, most people say that. You sound exhausted. Yeah.

Yeah. You sound way past tired. You sound exhausted. Yeah, I also haven't slept since Sunday, really, maybe a few hours. So it keeps me up all day and just makes me hate myself more every day. So I'm just in a bad spot. There you go. Are you coming off anything?

No. What do you mean in terms of like drugs or alcohol or anything? Yeah, do you use? No, I don't drink or do any drugs at all. So gambling has just always been the thing. How did this become part of your life? Yeah, so this is the real sad part is just that like... Hey, hold on. Hold on, I'm going to stop you there.

Like, you and I are friends now, and I'm going to... At least while you're on the phone with me, you're not going to talk about Kevin like that anymore. Okay. That you're sad, that you're a loser, and that everything sucks. You're not going to talk like that anymore. Okay. Okay? That's a choice to put on like a black trench coat of weight.

You're right. That you don't need to carry. Is that cool? Yeah. Yeah. So, we'll get into all the nitty- gritty, all the guts and blood and all that stuff. But at least when you're on the phone with me, you're not going to talk to yourself and talk about yourself that way. That cool. All right. I appreciate you checking me on that. Okay. So, um, 12, 12 years old, what was going on in your world? So, so I was never really like the brains of the family and sports were always my thing.

I was a great athlete. You know, I played all, all the sports. And, um, so I guess when I was, I think a freshman, freshman high school, my friend had an older brother that was like a bookie that would take bets. And, um, that's like really how I, you know, kind of got started. I mean, I was basically gambling with lunch money then at that point. Wow. But yeah, I mean, you know, ever since then, it's just, it's just gotten worse.

And, you know, I've gone, I've gone days, I've maybe gone a week or two, but, you know, for the past literal decade, I have not been able to successfully stop for any long period of time. And I'll also say that, you know, for the past decade, I haven't been able to successfully stop for any long period of time. And I'll also say that, you know, for the past decade, I haven't been making a concentrated effort, you know, to fully stop. But at least for the past year or two, man, I've been grinding so hard. And I know people just say, just stop. Like, what's so hard? And it seems that simple.

I'm not going to tell you that that's madness yeah um but seriously just stop kevin just stop i'm just kidding i'm just kidding yeah um yeah oh there's so much here okay there's a couple things i'm gonna walk through with you would you be willing to talk to a buddy of mine i would talk to anyone that would love that would like to talk to me absolutely would you do it this morning this isn't like a gotcha move but i'm gonna talk to anyone that would like to talk to me. Absolutely. Would you do it this morning? This isn't like a gotcha move, but I'm going to talk to you through a couple things. But there's somebody that I met via Instagram, of all places, and who's walked a journey. And he's about a year and a half ahead of you on this. Yeah.

If I invited him into this conversation, would that be cool? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. It'll be a little clunky because none of this is planned or prepped or anything, but here's what I want to start you with. What have you tried to stop? How have you tried to stop? Yeah. So my parents are extremely supportive and that makes me kind of feel even worse just because I continue to let them down, but they can see, you know But they can see all my money. They can see what comes in and what goes out.

Like I said, I've been to GA. I've self-excluded myself from casinos, but that doesn't really stop you from going in there. It's just kind of like a thing that you can do that it's supposed to help. But unless the security person recognizes you in there and sees that you're, you're not, you know, that you're, you're, you've self banned, they're not going to do anything. So, um, and you know, the, the, the part that sucks is just that like with sports things specifically, like there are so many offshore books, the illegal, like if you want to get money on something, you can get money

on it. You know, that's just like the reality of it. And you know, I've tried the self excluding, I've tried banning myself, but ultimately I've kind of just realized like, I have to be like, I have to get to a point where it just doesn't even entice me, you know, because it's always going to be there. I can't just exclude, exclude, exclude, you know, it doesn't seem like that's the viable option. Or it's like somebody who struggles with disordered eating. If you're a Coke addict, you can just quit doing, I mean, you can stop surrounding yourself with cocaine. If you struggle with disordered eating, you've got to make peace with food because you can't just avoid it forever. Right. Exactly. And you, you've nailed it. You are living in this weird little sliver of history when you have virtually unlimited access to credit, to money and virtually unlimited access to

gambling. And now that with the last four years, we just stuck it in your cell phone, right? We put it in your pocket. You don't have to, you don't have to go anywhere. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So at some point, here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a guy at war, and I've never met anybody ever who quote unquote defeated their addiction. Yeah. or a woman who defeats alcoholism. I've heard somebody take a knee and submit. And you get the difference there. It's a totally different way of doing life. Yeah, and I was going to say too, one of the things that actually scares me the most

is that there's a guy in the GA that I go to who's been clean since 89. And he says every single time that he's just a day away like anyone else from stepping into a casino and gambling. And I just think, I know he's saying that to make us feel like, you know, like we can get through it. But to me, it feels like if I have to live with this, like for the rest of my life, like how I, I don't know if I can do that. Like, like he's one day away. Like, am I always going to be one day?

Am I always going to feel this? Like, cause I can't live like this, man. I can't. Listen, you're not going to feel what you've got right now. No,

the dial, the dial turns back. Right. Yeah. Um, like, dude, I want to hug you so bad I just want to give you a hug, man

Well, then I just think too, like You know, there's just so much stuff that goes into this And I just think, like Like, I just feel like I've been robbed of every joy Like, my dopamine is just so Cracked out from all of this gambling That, like, if I can even get to a point Where I can stop, like Am I can even get to a point where I can

stop, like, am I ever even going to find joy? Like, you know, it just feels like an uphill battle to even stop. And then I feel like, okay, once I get to the top, like, am I even going to be happy? Like, is anything even going to change or am I just going to be robbed of the one thing that at least brought me, you know, dopamine, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I know about dopamine. Hold on. Hang on the line here. I'm going to bring, um, I'm going to bring Craig up. Hang on one second. Okay. Okay. Craig, are you there? How's it going, Dr. John? I'm good, my brother. Hey, um, this is, so just so everybody knows this morning, early this morning, I, I, I was checking just my calendar today, and I looked at the show notes, and I saw this call was coming. Jenna had sent these in.

And so, Greg, this is the first time you and I have ever spoken in person, but we met via Instagram when you reached out. And over the last year and a half, you have just, I mean, you've changed every aspect of your life in a profound way, man. So it's such a gift and an honor to hear from you over the last year and a half as you've changed everything. And I appreciate you. I just reached out this morning. It's like, hey, this is a curveball. Would you mind jumping on a call with me this morning? So I, man, I appreciate you going for it, dude. This is what I've learned is a part of giving back. So I was happy to do that. Well, I'm grateful, man.

I was the same person 633 days ago. Wow. So you've heard this. You've been on the line since Kevin started talking. Tell me how familiar this sounds to you. It sounds exactly like me at 23. Only I'm 43 now. And I wish I had the guts and courage for what he's doing now.

But I will say this. 23-year-old Craig would have not been ready to stop. I only stopped when I was absolutely ready. And for me, it was just the right time, the right moment, the right place. I was desperate, just like him. I think it was December 28th or 29th. I was at my wit's end and I was emailing you or messaging you on Instagram. And I just was pouring my guts out.

And I never thought that anybody would even read it or, or look at it. And a couple of days later, you got back to me and you said one thing that stuck with me and that made me realize that I needed help. And it was that you cannot do this alone. And my whole life since I'm 10 years old, I was trying to do it alone. And that's when I finally reached out for help. And then here you are, man, you just sent me some pictures of your wedding a few, a few weeks ago, man. So walk us through you've, you've, I mean, you've paid off like $150,000 in debt. You're cleaning your whole life is changing. That is correct. Um, for me, the biggest thing, uh, was connection. Um, my, uh, gambling brought me to isolation and just wanting to be alone and, uh, forgetting what it was like to be a human. And, uh, when I listened to you and I said,

when you said that you couldn't do this alone, I started researching help. I found an online support group. And through that online support group, I actually found two gentlemen in South Florida that are now my mentors that I speak to every single day and I even visit them. And, uh, one mentor had 50, has 52 years in the program. He's number 14 in the world of being, uh, clean from gambling. His name is,

uh, his nickname is Bob bracelets. And the other guy's name is Saki. And they've been with me every single day since day three. And for me, it was about letting it out, having someone to talk to, not being ashamed anymore, getting it off my chest. Two guys that have been there before and understood it

because only another compulsive gambler is going to understand another compulsive gambler. So, hey, Kevin, you're there? Yeah. So here's what I'm hearing, the difference between what you're saying and a guy that's a year and a half ahead of you or two years ahead of you, okay, is you're going to the meetings. You are interacting with your family. You are trying to fight this thing. But you're doing it completely and totally by yourself. Do you get the difference?

I think so, yeah. Or let me put it this way. You can go to meetings and be surrounded by people who say, we love you, Kevin. Welcome, Kevin. And you can feel completely and totally alone. Oh yeah. That's, that's to a T. Yeah. And there's something, um, different about going to a meeting and then doing what Craig did sitting across from somebody and saying, I'm in a mess. Help. And that's what you're doing

today, actually. You're reaching out. And I would say, you've gone to a therapist. Y'all are trying to fix things. You're trying to stop gambling. That's different than help. And if I could, I'm sorry.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to step out and I want, Craig, you talk to Kevin and Kevin, you talk back to Craig here for a minute. Hey, Kev, there's a place online. It's called gamblersinrecovery.com. It's 24-hour meetings from around the world. You can find a meeting every hour on zoom. And I was just like you. I actually, during the pandemic, I had to do, I probably did three, four or five meetings a day in the first 90 days, just to try to stay away from a bet and having that kind of access to people with that kind of knowledge and who have been around just helped me tremendously. I'm not going to say it's easy. It is the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life. By far the hardest thing I ever had to do in my life. And I heard you talk about like your joy

and your dopamine. I was you times 20. And Dr. John knows some of the numbers. I was you times 20, just 20 years later. And you're going to be me in 20 years if you don't figure this out now. Yeah. If you have a chance, because you're looking for help. And Craig, I saw some pictures of you with this beautiful new wife of yours. Have you found joy in other places? That's exactly where I was getting to. I was the same way. Even having a future fiance and then a beautiful wife and having a daughter who plays sports and who's active and engaged and a great student, none of those things at the time were making

me happy or bringing me joy. 632 days later, I find joy in those things again. It does subside. Does it go away? No, no. I was somebody like you gambling 12, 14 hours a day, you know, insane amounts of money, had no business doing it because of access to lots and lots of credit, same exact stuff, but it does subside, but it takes time. It takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of patience and it takes a lot of effort and a lot of work, but it's worth it. So Kevin, what are you hearing? What are you feeling? I mean, it's, you know, I, I know damn well, like how hard it is, but to hear that for you,

that it does get better is something that I think is really resounding to me just because sometimes I even like look around the room, like in GA and stuff. And it just seems like people are just even people that have kicked it, you know, it just seems like every day is like such a battle. I guess it is always going to be that way, but here's someone, you know, reclaim a lot of like joys in their life. And just, I mean, you seem like a happy person, like just speaking to you and that. Okay. I go weeks on end. I go weeks on end now. Well, it's not even thinking about gambling. When I thought about gambling 24 seven, I, I, I was like you, I started when I was about gambling 24-7. I was like you. I started when I was 10 years old

fixing football pools in my Catholic school with my best friend. I'm not even sure. I started fixing football pools at 10 years old. And then my last, I'm going to share this and I'm not embarrassed. My last bet, and money doesn't mean anything in the program, but just to give you an idea from fixing football pools at 10 years old to my last bet was $27,000. And I have no business gambling

$27,000. And that's, that was that 32 year experience. So it was just like a drug addict. I just needed more and more and more to get the same exact feeling that I used to get as that kid at 10 years old fixing football pools. Yeah. I mean, that's where we go. That's the same thing as me when I, when I was, you know, I started when I was in my teens and $10, $20 wins would make me happy. And, and now if I don't have four figures on a game, it's like sometimes I don't even bother watching

if I don't have that much on it. So, hey, Craig, let me hop in here. Craig, tell me if I'm, because Craig, I know you've got a heart out because you're a teacher and you're working with people. Correct. Let me, I'm going to say something to Kevin and you hop in if I'm off base here, okay? Sure.

Kevin, I've never found somebody who successfully hates themselves out of bad behavior. I've never found somebody who's able to shame themselves into making long-term life change, ever. So here's a way I want you to look at this for the next few months. You're 23, so you don't have a kid, do you? No, I don't. Okay. There is something so insanely maddening and weirdly beautiful about having your kid wake up in the middle of the night and come running into your room and say, daddy, I'm sick. And then barfing on you. It's, dude, you got to understand, it's the worst.

You're dead asleep and now some kids barfed on you. And there's something poetic about that kid came to the one place he or she knew to go to and they weren't okay. And that's me. And so I want you to stop thinking of yourself as if, if my kid came running into my room and stuck their finger down your throat and was like, Hey dad, haha. And barfed all over me. That's a totally different story. That's the way you're talking about yourself. And so I want you to imagine for the next six months, the next year, the next six months, I think the next six months i think you're sick man and you're not a bad guy you're not some sort of dysfunctional shameful idiotic you're sick

and the antibiotic here is going to be other people and And if you will reframe, I suck, I fail, I've been trying to this thing for 10 years, I've been fighting this thing, you're taking a very athletic approach to it. I will conquer. I will will myself through this. Like very David Goggins, I've never seen that work with addiction. I've only seen it, I'm sitting down, I'm looking at another human being and saying, I'm not all right. Yeah, doctor. I was the same exact way. And you're never, this isn't like a program or something that you graduate from.

You don't get any graduation. And what I've learned is you're not going to beat it. You're not going to conquer it. It's not going to go away. You're going to arrest it though. And you can arrest this disease sometimes one minute, sometimes 10 minutes, sometimes an hour, sometimes a day at a time. And then with time and patience and work, you can get to a point where you're not thinking about it 24 seven and you're not thinking about

it for days and then you're not thinking about it for weeks and you, you can get better. All right, Craig. Craig, I know you got to run. What do you say, Kevin? I was going to say, I think part of the issue too is just that like, I have like an amazing girlfriend and she knows that I'm NGA and she knows I have a problem, but I'm always just afraid to share day to day how terrible I'm feeling just because, you know, like not that it makes me a bad person. Like you said, I'm sick, but like,

this is something that ruins a lot of relationships, you know, and marriages. And I just think like, damn, if I'm completely open and I'm completely honest, am I going to ruin relationships when people realize how. Kevin, you know what that is? That's shame right there. Yeah. That's shame. That's all I feel. If somebody actually knows me, will they still love me?

And that is the gasoline in the engine of addiction. Because at the core, you believe no. If they really knew me, she would not love me. And I call bull crap on that. I think it's a lie too. It is. It's a lie. And so a lie and so that when when when craig says you got to do the work that's the work is living a life with no secrets yes you have

to be open and honest to be able to beat this thing you have to be all right craig i know you got to get to class man hey uh it's an absolute honor thank Thank you for being brave. Yeah. I appreciate it. My, my mentor told me you better get your butt on that thing and give it back. Good for him. Good for him. Hey, I'm grateful for you.

I'll connect you to via a direct message. Is that cool? That's perfectly fine. All right, man. See you, Craig. All right.

Kevin, you still there, Kevin? Yeah. Okay. Thank you for doing that, by the way. Kevin, you still there, Kevin? Yeah. Okay. Thank you for doing that, by the way. No, you got it. Is there, you've probably had several conversations like that and I know they're not panaceas and I know they're not, they can't fix everything. Your voice sounds different now than it did at the beginning of this call.

Yeah, I think so too. So I want to, um, this is like the part of the movie when there's the montage and someone like starts lifting weights and Rocky music's playing in the background. I don't want to blow over. If you are serious about getting well, the next three months are going to be hell. There's just no way around that. And he said it at the beginning of the call. You have to decide, am I ready for that?

Am I ready for three months of hell? And if you are, man, awesome. All in. And if you're not, make peace with not being ready to go through hell. But all of the trash talking that you do to Kevin is not helping either side of this teeter-totter, right? It's not making you a better gambler, and it's not making you a weller human being. Yeah. Right?

I think, too, is just I've found that depression just goes so hand-in-hand with addiction. Absolutely, dude. just goes so hand in hand with addiction. And it just seems like, you know, even if I, like I was telling you earlier, I'm just skeptical about, hell, if I can go three months without this, is my life even going to have meaning? And everyone that I've talked to, like the guy you brought on, say the same thing.

It does get better. It's just so hard for me to believe with the way I feel. But I guess I just have to trust what everyone's telling me. Can I ask you a hard question? Yeah. Have you been right yet? No. No.

So let's try something different. Yeah. Our feelings have one job, and that's to get us to the next day. It will even smoke a cigarette today to deal with today's stress, knowing it's going to kill us tomorrow. And for whatever reason, your body has associated, I need this fix right now, even though I know it's killing me tomorrow, it'll get me through right now. And the goal is to create a little bit bigger gap. And he said it beautifully.

Sometimes that gap's one minute. I'm going to hold my breath for 60 seconds and get through this impulse. I'm going to text somebody. I'm going to call them. I'm going to get on that whatever website he just gave you. I'm going to get on there. I'm going to get on there. I'm going to get on there.

I'm talking 60 seconds. Yeah. It just makes me feel terrible. I know I'm going to get on there. It's I'm talking 60 seconds. Yeah. It just makes me feel terrible. I know I'm talking bad about Kevin again, but it's like, you know, it makes, it gives me so much guilt to put people that I love like with this, because I did it all myself, man. I don't have a terminal illness. I don't, I don't have something I can't control. Now you're back to morality and we're going to take morality off the table you're a brave dude

we're taking morality off the table you're sick man and you don't want to believe you're sick you want to think that you can just flex your way through this and you can't yeah there's no way and you're also too smart for your own good quite honestly Yeah, there's no way. There's no way.

And you're also too smart for your own good, quite honestly. I know. I mean, I have so many friends that are in the same position, and they have no idea they're even addicted. It's just like their norm, and they don't even know. Here's what you're going to have to do. Here's every single person who struggles with addiction I've ever met struggles with. You're going to have to find new people to be around struggles with. You're going to have to find new people to be around. You're going to have to find new communities. You're going to have to find new things to do when you get stressed out or angry or enraged or heartbroken.

Yeah. You're going to have to breathe through these seasons, man. And it's just, here it is. It's a set of skills. You play sports before. The first time somebody told you to, I don't know, shoot a basketball, you had to learn how to do that. That's what you're doing, man.

You're learning a new set of skills. And the more you can keep an open hand towards these new sets of skills versus trying to close fist around it, man, the gentler the ride, and the ride's not going to be gentle. Yeah. Right? But it'll be worth it i cannot imagine a scenario where it's not worth it yeah and like you like you were saying earlier i keep thinking you know about how you said you know if you're ready for the next three it's like i'm gonna have to be ready at some point because it's going to kill me by itself if I don't, you know?

You can do it now? Or you can do it in jail? Or you can do it in court-mandated rehab? Yeah. But you're going to do it, right? Yeah. So here's my promise. I'm going to connect you with Offline.

I'm going to connect you with Craig, if'm going to connect you with Craig If that's somebody You want to reach out to As a resource I also am committed to I'll put you on Anytime you want to come on And let me know about your journey Okay

Thanks man That means a lot And if you have A great month And then you fall off the wagon Alright You're still my friend Alright I'll still pick up the tab. Just come hang out.

And if you have two months and you're, and you're doing all right. Awesome. If you have three months, awesome. And if your girlfriend wants to call into the show and say, how do I love somebody who's struggling? I'd love to take that call too. Okay. Yeah. I'll help you every step of the way I can hang on the line here. I'm going to send you a copy of own your past change your future on me just a book to say okay here's what's happened I've got to own what I did period now what I'm going to walk with you

my brother thank you so much for your bravery and a big shout out again to Craig for reaching for taking a last second call this morning if you are struggling with addiction can't do it by yourself taking a last second call this morning. If you are struggling with addiction, can't do it by yourself and you're worth peace. Be right back. It seems like everybody's talking about how crazy the housing market is right now and how powerless homebuyers feel. Mix that with the stress of moving and life change and job change,

and you've got a tornado of anxiety fueling one of the biggest purchases you'll ever make. This is not a good idea. So if you're a new home buyer right now, my advice to you is to focus on what you can control, like the people you choose to help you in the home buying process. You need folks like my friends at Churchill Mortgage.

Churchill is a Ramsey trusted provider that's been helping people with their home mortgages for decades. And their home buyer edge program will help you skip a bunch of the stress. Here's how it works. Apply to become a Churchill certified home buyer and cap your interest rate for 90 days. Then you'll get a $5,000 seller guarantee to help your offer stand out. So go ahead, take a deep breath because Churchill has your back. Check them out at churchillemortgage.com slash Deloney and get the home buyer edge today. All right, let's go to Jodi in Manitoba, Canada. What's up, Jodi? Hi.

How are we doing? Oh, I'm pretty nervous. I am too. I'm terrible at this, so we'll be nervous together. It'll be fine. All right, that sounds good. You sound like you totally believe me. All right, so what's up?

Well, okay I guess I'll start with my question How do I make a decision about the future of my marriage when fear paralyzes me from making any kind of decision? What decision do you have to make? Basically, if we continue on this path or if I walk away from this relationship.

You're being super vague. Okay. Well, maybe I'll give you a little bit of history here. There you go. So I met my husband when I was 29. He's seven years older than me. We've been married for about nine years now. I had a child I brought into the relationship, which is from just kind of a short relationship that I had.

But when I discovered I was pregnant, the father just rejected everything. So he left at that point. So it had been about a year later and I met my husband and I guess, you know, my self-esteem was really low and I probably had no business getting into a relationship at that point. But, you know, here was this nice stable guy. He had a job, he had a house, he treated me with respect and I wasn't used to having that. So, you know, I let him in. We did have a bit of a rocky relationship that was kind of on again, off again, because I, you know, I kept thinking like, no, this isn't what I want. But, you know, the alternative was I was alone

and I just wanted somebody to be there. So, you know, we dated for about a year and then we got engaged and, you know, immediately after we got engaged, I was like, oh my God, this relationship is, is just moving forward. And, and I'm not sure that this is the right thing. Um, but I just kind of, you know, stifled those feelings and, you know, got swept up in the excitement of planning a wedding. So we had this huge, lavish wedding that, of course, we could not afford. We decided to buy a house. We went on a honeymoon and sort of when we came back and settled into normal everyday life, that's when things got really, really hard. And when you say really hard, I want to get real clear here. Really hard, like he's abusive?

Or really hard, like you don't find him attractive? You don't like him? Really hard in that we started arguing a lot. We started fighting a lot. That's a lot of new marriages. So this seems more existential. Well, it just, it was a lot of loneliness on my part. My husband travels a lot for work. So I was left alone. And I guess it wasn't what I had been expecting out of married life. I thought I would have this companion. I thought our relationship would be just wonderful.

I don't – I'm going to take a risk here. I don't think that the relationship is the problem. I really don't. I don't think you like Jodi. Because you had a picture of a thing, and it was going to to look like this and it ended up looking like something else. Yeah. And it's taken you 10 years, almost a decade. And when someone says, I got left alone, I was lonely.

My first question is, why'd you choose loneliness? So after your husband decides he's going to be on the road or has to be on the road for his job A you didn't have that conversation which I get man I didn't have that skill set until 15 years after being married to say hey, I need this or I want this I get that and you didn't choose to find relationships and community with other people, which I think all married couples need. So it sounds like you were expecting this person. It sounds like you married a ghost is what it sounds like. You married a fantasy. And nobody, there is no ghost or fantasy that can be both super attractive and support you and not bother you, but also be there for you and be

your companion, but not too much. You see what I'm saying? It's a moving target. And that's you. Anytime someone's dealing with a moving target, it's almost always them trying to use external means to fill internal holes. So what is it about Jody that you don't trust um i don't know i've been rejected a lot in my life um relationships are really hard for me um me too out there me too yeah Me too. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. So here's my promise to you. I promise you this. This may not be your, this may not, you may not stay married to this guy long term.

That's another conversation, another call. If you leave him today and meet somebody in three months, you're going to be in this exact same boat in five to 10 years because you haven't dealt with you. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair. So let me ask you this one terrifying, scary question. What do you want, Jodi? And I'm asking that in the bound context of you're a mom and you're a wife. What do you want? Peace. Okay. What are you unpeaceful about? Um, I don't know. It's just like I've completely shut down. I think that, you know, should, should bring me joy, just don't. I've heard you talk on the show about people that escape, you know, on Facebook and Instagram and just kind of scroll their entire lives away. And that's me to a T.

Like, I just try to escape. And it's not from some... It sounds like you're not escaping from a dragon. It sounds like you're escaping from smoke. And it's easier to escape a dragon because you can see it. Yeah. And this feels like it's enveloping you. Is that fair? Yeah.

You are describing to a T depression. Have you gone to talk to somebody? I actually, from the time that I wrote your show to like this call today, I actually have one appointment with a counselor. Good. Here's what I want you to do. Have you had that at that meeting yet? Yeah, I've had one meeting so far. How was it?

Um, promising. Okay. I think there's a really bright light at the other end of this, but I think that's a really bright light at the other end of this. But I think that you're, I talk a lot about anxiety and OCD and those kinds of things. One thing I don't play around with is depression just because I just look at the data. Okay. And it's, that one's a tough one just to think your way out of,

or just to go act your way out of. Usually you have to sit down with somebody and be honest, often for the first time in your life. And here's the goal here. Joy, yes, but we're looking at creating a life worth living. And you sound like somebody who's allowed life to happen to them for a long long time and you've loved parts of it and you also thought different parts of it would feel differently than they actually do and there's parts of it you don't like that don't fit your picture of what you would what you would do changing partners right now i don't know that

that fixes that it might I don't see it. That's for you and your therapist. I talked to somebody recently who quit their job, a highfalutin job, and had been struggling with some depression, some anxiety, and quit their job, and things felt good for a few weeks. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, the depression, anxiety is back. And it's like, yeah, you found an external,

an external stressor would fix an internal challenge. And it won't, sometimes it'll help. Sometimes changing the context will help, but this is a long time. Isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I've been on medication for depression and anxiety and i just feel like you know every time kind of life gets harder and i go you know to the doctor and it's just like up my dosage up my dosage right so but but listen when you go to the doctor to stop feeling bad, that's the only tool they've got. And the goal right now is to not stop feeling bad. The goal is let's build a life worth living. And those are different things when you tell your husband that you're on the fence about right now i just need you to do this and this and this because they make those things make me feel bad

or i don't feel good i don't feel joy that's different than hey would you be a part of changing everything with me yeah that's a totally different one is an invitation to an adventure, and the other is a phone book of rules and regulations. And that phone book moves, and it pushes, and it goes, and it goes. The adventure is never-ending. And so here's my promise to you. Go to the counselor and be honest about not what you want to stop feeling as much and be honest, of course, about that, but also be highly intentional about asking for skills to build a life that you want to be a part of. And that will include really hard

conversations with your current husband. That'll include hard conversations with your kid. That'll include new boundaries. That will include you doing different things. Hard things. Like getting up every morning. And exercise. You know, whatever.

It will require you to change too. It will not be easy. But you're at a stage now everybody listening this is a stage when somebody needs professional help this isn't something I'm going to solve on the radio this isn't something you're going to solve

over a cup of coffee and this isn't one of those things you tell somebody you just need to think more nope this has all the hallmarks of somebody who's struggling with depression. And the light on the other side of this thing has a brightness that you can only imagine, Jody. So go sit with this therapist.

Be honest. Be direct. Be specific about changing your life. We're rooting for you, my sister. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Better Help October is the season For wearing costumes

And if you haven't started planning your costume Seriously get on it I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt Because we have the same upper body But whatever, look it's costume season And if we're being honest A lot of us hide our true selves Behind masks and costumes

More often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp.

BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp.

Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to Jackie in Danville. What's up, Jackie? Oh, not much. Just child problems. Oh, if you've got child problems, I feel bad for you, son. I got nine and nine. Okay. So what's up? Tell me what's going on. Okay. So my youngest is going to be 13 in about a month. Okay. I got a 12 year old saying, let's figure this out. Awesome. I no longer know what to do or how to handle situations with him.

Okay. Right now, he is failing almost every class. Okay. Fighting with every teacher. His school's fed up with him. They're threatening to keep him in the principal's office for the rest of the year and do all of his classes except PE in the principal's office. Okay. He won't do chores at home, and PE in the principal's office. He won't do chores at home.

And I don't ask a lot, you know, keep his room clean, straighten up his bathroom, empty the dishwasher. I mean, it's not a lot. I try taking privileges and I try giving privileges and bribery and everything. And I'm just, I'm at a loss. Yeah. Oh man, I'm I'm just, I'm at a loss. Yeah. Oh, man. I'm sorry.

Jeez, I'm sorry. This sounds like a boy that doesn't feel safe. Why wouldn't he feel safe? I was a single mom. His father actually passed away about three, about three years ago and he never really had anything to do with them. Um, he kept it hidden from his family and they just recently came into his life about three or four years ago. So there's that. And then, you know, young, dumb mom, you know, bounced around. So he's, you know, had really two different stable people in his life. You say bounced around, just different boyfriends, different boyfriends or different marriages?

Yeah. Only one marriage. Recently got divorced. It was just a bad situation. What does that mean? Was there abuse in the home? No. I mean, my mother-in-law was kind of a terror.

She wouldn't let him do stuff on his own and would get mad. Like if he spilled milk, corn, cereal, you know, dumb stuff. It's just a lot. So I finally got out of that situation and I moved in with my parents for a little while. And then, you know, young and dumb again, got, you know, went straight into another relationship and I've been living with him for about three years, but he had never had any children. So he doesn't know how to handle him.

And I feel like I'm constantly man in the middle between the two of them. And, you know, my boyfriend's like telling this, I'm like, why don't you just tell him? So I don't know what to do. And underneath all of this is a little kid.

Right. Hiding in a teenage body. Try to keep that in mind. Hiding in a teenage body. Is a little kid saying, what was so wrong with me that dad left? Why does God hate me so much that daddy died? And who the hell is this guy think he is talking to my mom like that, talking to me like that? Who is this other grandma trying to tell me that I'm a bad kid for spilling milk?

And all of a sudden, that little 12-year-old boy, his body explodes from the inside out. And so when you describe those things, I don't see a bad kid at all. I see a kid screaming, somebody please tell me I'm okay. I know, and I'm trying to get him to open up and he won't touch me or his grandmother. Jackie, he has no way he's going to open up.

No way. I wouldn't. Not if there's some third or fourth radioactive alpha male in my house trying to go to war with me as a 12 year old I'm not going to open up in that environment in a way and the last time I opened up to an elderly person she got mad at me for spilling cornflakes right and so he sits on it. He has learned, I'm going to sit on this. The only problem is he doesn't have the strength and fortitude or access to alcohol to do it.

Like most men do. Or he doesn't have a graduate degree from law school to go hide in his office for the next 40 years. And so he just explodes. He is not a bad kid. No, he's not. Unfortunately, he's too smart for his own good. The teachers are constantly like, he spurts around the rules by doing this, this, and this.

But he's not really breaking the rules. And I constantly tell him I'm like you know listen Jackie the words you just said I constantly tell him I don't care I don't care what you tell him no words will get through

to this 12 year old little boy zero words he has learned to respond to two things power and connection do you know what a dream it would be for him to be able to do his work he has learned to respond to two things, power and connection. Do you know what a dream it would be for him to be able to do his work by himself in a non-threatening environment

in the principal's office where adults are nice to him? That would be the greatest gift to his sweet little brain and his sweet little body, peace. Adults who are actually kind to him, who hold him accountable and challenge him academically, but love him because he doesn't have that. He's got a mom who is rattled from the inside out, probably has been for a long time. And I'm not blaming you. It just isn't is.

He's got a- Well, and it doesn't help that I've dealt with depression on and off and i'm finally getting myself healthy so i'm you know finally getting the strength to deal with everything good good good good you can he can only be as well as you are and i know that's a scary proposition for you um would it benefit to try to get him into counseling like i keep trying to get him into that but he's like let's go there and i'll just stare at him so i'm like i don't know if that's that's worth the fight to try this

he needs a couple of men in his life that he can actually trust and aren't going to harp on him all the time about it pull his pants up and fix his belt and is that what you're wearing and turn your shirt around he needs a couple of guys in his life they'll take him fishing and laugh with him well my my um dad was a stepdad but he you know tries to take him out constantly and my boyfriend like wants to go out and do four-wheeling and paintballing and all that stuff with him but then he gets mad because he's not listening to him so yeah. I mean, and it sounds like I'm saying it's a free-for-all. Absolutely not. He needs to experience accountability.

He needs to experience choices. But he also needs to experience autonomy. And he needs to experience more than anything a safe environment. And he's never had that. All right. And you know this. And I'm not saying this to – I'm saying this to challenge you not to kick you while you're down, okay? No, I understand.

This is all of the recipes for the making of a disaster down the road. This is a brilliant, unsafe boy about to become a brilliant, unsafe man. And that's a danger. Right. resilient unsafe man and that's a danger right and so it sounds like what he needs is a good butt kicking nope what he needs is to feel safe and secure for the first time in his life ever this is going to sound bananas but i start with, you've heard me say this a million times on the show. When's the last time you just took him out and listened to him? How are things going? I'm not trying to coach you or teach you or tell you like, how's it going? That's a dangerous question because for the last two years, my work's been working six days a week, 10-hour days. So I'm out of the house a lot.

Okay. Part of you getting well might be thinking I've got to get a different job. Part of you getting well might be this romantic relationship I'm in, that I'm in to band-aid over the last one, which band-aids over the last one, which band-aids over a lifetime of fill-in-the-blank. Those aren't serving me well and when i'm not when you don't feel safe and by the way jackie you don't feel safe either i can hear it on you you feel one one uh one tiny like spider's web you're hanging on by

is that true? Yeah, a little bit. I think part of it's just, I'm at the point where I'm like, is he going to get frustrated enough that, you know, he's going to want to kick us out of the home. Why are you trying to please him? Why?

Because he's the first person that's actually made me feel like I have a life and I'm worth living. Then he shouldn't be making you feel like you've got to perform for him or you're off the stage and he might not be saying those words but that might be what you're projecting onto him and that's not fair if you're doing that to him right and he's one of those people that kind of keeps bottled stuff bottled up bottled up and you know has a hard time explaining i know but you know, has a hard time explaining. I know, but you know, women and children are exquisite at absorbing that sort of tension.

You know why? Because they have to, to keep alive. And so when he's all bottled up, you feel it and you can nuzzle up to him and be romantic and make the meal that you can do all those things, bring home the paycheck that he wants. wants you can do that but your body knows we're not safe right you know especially knows that the finest tuned radar in your home is that sweet little 13 year old boy not one thing you've described to me is out of character for that little boy i'm so heartbroken for him i can hardly even stand it because i got it i got a boy just like him not one thing you've described to me is out of character for that little boy. I'm so heartbroken for him, I can hardly even stand it because I got a boy just like him.

The difference is, and now it's again, I'm not a perfect parent by a long shot. My kid can be goofy. He can be a 12-year-old. He can be a 13-year-old. He can be a 13-year-old. He can do all the middle school boy things. But that boy knows he's safe, and that boy knows he is loved.

Right. And that's where we're going to start with him. Like, quick out of the gate, if you said, give me three things to do right now, I would say you have to figure out a work schedule Very like quick out of the gate. If you said, give me three things to do right now. I would say you have to figure out a work schedule where you go to, you leave in the morning early or you go in the evening and you take him on a date once a week without fail twice a week. If you can't know boyfriend, no, whatever y'all do go together. I can do that. I get home at 4.30 in the afternoon. Awesome. And once a week, he gets to pick the restaurant. Once a week, you get to pick it. And it might mean you can't afford it and you're going to

have to forego something. Cool. Forego. You don't want Taco Bell. Well, I mean, that's pretty, I've taken my son there. Um, sometimes he picks that place just to torture me, but that is what it is. And then I get Dorito tacos and everything's better for about eight minutes. Well, I'm on a carnivore diet, so I'll probably have to fast while he's eating. No, but don't, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. Eat. Forget the car. What's like, why do the car? Why now? Why now? Because it's helping my migraines and my depression and all that stuff.

All right. Well, whatever. There's a good reason. Okay. Taco Bell will not help those three things. Right. I'll just eat the beef. He gets to pick.

And here's what we're going to do. We are not going to lecture him. Whenever you feel yourself reaching up to give him advice, you're going to stop. You're going to listen. You're going to ask him questions like, what scares you?

What are you missing? I'm going to send you all the questions for humans cards you can use with him, okay? I'd appreciate that. You can take them and this'm going to send you all the questions for humans cards you can use with him. Okay. You can take them in. This is going to be your date. It's going to be your game. And then if he has another game,

he wants to play cool. If he wants to get a puzzle and just not talk cool. The second thing we're going to do every single morning and every single evening before bed, you are going to hug him to your chest for 30 seconds. And he doesn't get a vote, but he kind of does. Okay? And you're not going to say mama needs a hug because he already feels like he has to take care of you and he can't carry that. All right.

You're going to say mom really wants to hug the most important man in her life. Will you give mom the opportunity to hug the man that she loves more than any other man on the planet? That's what we're going to say every single day. And then he's going to go, and you'll say, I want to hug the most important man on the planet the third thing is you have to be on the lookout for male influences in his life that aren't just going to take him paintballing and show him how to drink beer and how to whip ass and be a man

not that who are going to see him and love him and provide a good model for what this, what being a man looks like. And that's doing hard stuff. And that's being honest and that's being open and that's being vulnerable and that's feeling things and going and doing hard crap anyway.

And if that's not your boyfriend, get out, get out. Get out. Would it be beneficial to have my father try to take him out once a week too? If you think that's a safe, good person. Oh yeah, he's amazing. That would be incredible. And now this little boy is going to start getting the thing he needs more than anything else, which is adults who love him, who don't tell him, who show him through their most precious resource, their time. He's going to get something he desperately needs, which is to be fully seen and be rest

assured, I still love you. Awesome. Okay. And by the way, you're playing a 10-year game here what we're doing right now we are hoping that that 25 year old kid who's now a 25 year old man with all of the rights and privileges of grown men in our society we're hoping that guy looks back and thinks man my mom really had a rough go of it the first decade of my life. And that brave, incredible woman turned it around. Man, I was really blessed to have my grandpa in my life. That guy walked alongside me and he was met with me every week forever, drove me crazy. And I miss

him like crazy. Right. Okay. Well, luckily we're a pretty young family, so he'll have him for a while. Cool. But, but you're, but all that to say is this isn't going to get better in four months. Oh, I understand that.

Okay. The last thing I'll tell you is this is number four. And then I'm going to, I'll let you go. I would come up with some sort of set of family values that he gets to speak into. And that might be on your third or fourth or fifth or sixth date that y'all have in a row. You could tell him, hey, I've been wondering who I'm going to be, who I want to be, who you want to be, and not just what job we're going to do, but who are we going to be? Would you make a list

with me? Let's do a project together. And this will be a project that says, we're going to talk to people with respect and dignity. We get our work done on time. We show up on time. That's just who we are. We're people who treat other people right. And we treat them right by, if they give us an assignment, we just get it done. And that way, when he chooses to not do his homework, you've got something back to say, hey, you chose this consequence too because you know who we are. We all agreed on it. And he gets to hold you accountable, mom. When you yell and scream or kick or throw something, he gets to say, that's not who we are. We said we were going to be this.

And then you have to pay him 20 bucks. That's the fine. Sounds fair. Is that fair? But here's what we're doing. The nerd word is autonomy. We're giving him some tiny feeling that he has some bit of control in his life.

And up to this point, he's had none. No control. He has been at the whim of adults who are doing acting like children running around doing child things in adult bodies and he's terrified and now he's got man now that sweet little boy has a chance to just do his homework in peace in the principal's office and principals can be tough but man they love smart good kids and those school secretaries in the principal's office and those school administrators they would be nice to them finally finally your kids everybody when your kids are acting out Let your first question not be, what's wrong with my kid? Let your first question be, why doesn't my kid feel safe? Start there. Solve for safety. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, one of the greatest metal rock anthems of all time ever. This one's near and dear to my heart. Me and Mike and Tom and others used to jam this when we were kids. By the great Twisted Sister, and the song is We're Not Gonna Take It.

I can't believe I haven't thought of this song before. It's legend. We've got the right to choose. Yeah! There ain't no way we'll lose it. This is our life. This is our song. We'll fight the powers that be. Just don't pick our destiny because you don't know us.

You don't belong. We're not gonna take it. No! We're not gonna take belong. We're not going to take it. No, we're not going to take it. We're not going to take it anymore. Oh, you're so condescending. Your gall is never ending. You don't want nothing. We don't want nothing.

Not a thing from you. Your life is trite and jaded, boring and confiscated. If that's your best, your best won't do. It's so great. We're right. Yeah! We're free. Yeah!

We'll fight. You'll see. We're not going to take it anymore. I was going to say we're not going to take it on this show either, but I take it every single show. So we'll see you soon.