The Dr. John Delony Show - My Best Man Hit on My Fianceé

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: -       A man whose best friend hit on his fiancée -       A woman who suspects her husband is cheating on her -       A mom wanting to protect her premature baby To pre-order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Lyrics of the Day: "Jessie's Girl" - Rick Springfield Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm just trying to get some guidance on how to put a 20-year friendship to bed. They definitely did a thing. My best friend, basically my brother, he made a pass at my fiance. The kicker that I can't get past, he's like, I just wanted to know what it would feel like. Hey everybody, what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show, the greatest mental health and emotional health and marriage and parenting

and whatever else is going on in your life podcast ever recorded. My friends tell me I speak almost exclusively in hyperbole, so that may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but I'm glad that you are with us on the show. We talk to real people who are going through challenges in their life, and my promise is I'll sit with you in the mess, even when nobody else will. I'll sit with you, and we will figure out what the best next move is. If you want to be on this show, talk about your marriage,

we'll talk about what's going on with your in-laws, we'll talk about your kids, your mental health, your emotional health, whatever you got going on. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. 1-844-693-3291, or go to johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K. And I do not know all the answers, I promise. I don't know a lot of them. And if my friends and colleagues across the country or the scientific literature doesn't address it i'll say so out loud I'll tell you I don't know and then I think One thing that's missing from the world is people not just giving their opinion but saying here's what I would do If it was my sister, here's what I would do if it was my dad

Here's what I'd do if it was me And letting you know, here's the move I would make in my house I don't have any science to back it up. here's what I would do if it was my dad. Here's what I'd do if it was me. And letting you know, here's the move I would make in my house. I don't have any science to back it up. Here's what I would do. And so it's a combination of all of it. I'm so grateful that you have chosen to join us, man. And if you want to be on the show, give me a call. And don't forget my book, my brand new one, Building a Non-Anxious Life.

I think it's the antidote to the world that we live in right now, which is just madness. An unintentional madhouse run amok. Building a non-anxious life lays out a roadmap, the six choices you can make on a daily basis, on a monthly basis, on a yearly basis to create a life worth living, to create a life that is not so fried all of the time. And it pulls together tons of research, tons of other books, tons of other authors that are way more brilliant than I am and sets it into a book. I tried to make it as simple as possible, just a conversation between me and you. Here's the next right move. And here's how to build something worth living, right? And so building a non-anxious life, go to johndeloney.com

and pre-order it now. It's 20 bucks and I'm trying to bribe you. So I'll send you a bunch of other stuff like the audio book and like a download talk. I'll send you a bunch of stuff. Go to johndeloney.com, 20 bucks. Check it out. All right, let's go out to California and talk to Gerard. What's up, Jared? How are we doing, man?

Pretty good, Dr. John. Long-time listener, first-time caller. Yes. I always hope people will say that. and you did, so that's awesome. You made my day. What's up, man? I got your back, man. Don't worry. Yeah, thanks for taking my call. So basically, I'm just trying to get some guidance and maybe some next steps on how to put a 20-year friendship to bed and let go. Oh, wait. Almost always, that's somebody did a thing.

What happened? Oh, they definitely did a thing. Oh, no. What is it, man? All right. So I guess I'll give you a little bit of backstory. I have a, I mean, he's my best friend or was, I guess I should say, basically my brother. I mean, 20 years is a long time to have a friendship, right?

Hey, call that up. That is, A, this sounds like the beginning to a Dawson's Creek episode. I'm not going to lie. And I'm super excited about it. Two, yeah, that's a brother, dude. 20 years side by side, that's a brother dude 20 years side by side that's a brother right yeah that's definitely so anyway um i met my fiance about five years ago we got engaged last year uh our wedding's actually coming up in 16 days at this point very cool cool. Congratulations, man. Thank, thank you. Um, anyway, so, um, my best

friend and my fiance, they didn't always see eye to eye. Um, you know, it was, uh, I think a little bit of, you know, vying for my attention at some, at some points, you know, and, uh, so anyway, they, over the past few years, have really gotten close. You know, him and his wife, we barbecue together. We hang out all the time. You know, it's the crew, right? And so they finally got into a point, my fiancé and him, where, you know, they were tight. Everything was going well.

And he actually, him and his wife's four-year wedding anniversary just passed and he thought it would be cool to kind of re-propose to her because they kind of eloped the first time and uh he asked me to host it at my house you know kind of a surprise shindig re-proposal and i was like of course brother like I got you I'll have everybody over we'll keep a surprise yada yada um so that all went fine it was nice they stayed over afterwards to you know barbecue hang out we were having some celebratory drinks and what have you and uh I ended up me and his wife ended up um you know going going to bed. It was late. Not together, right? Not together, no.

I was going to clarify that. All right. Yeah, I just held my breath there for a second. Yeah. I was hoping you were calling to tell me how bad your friend was because you slept with his wife. Okay, good. So that didn't happen.

So you and his wife went to bed separately. I feel like I know where this story's headed. Then what? Yeah. He made a pass at my fiance. What does that mean? He tried to kiss her. Okay.

And when they were, they were, you know, out obviously by themselves talking together. And it's funny because he, it wasn't just like a, like a drunk and no, I'm going to lean in and make a path. Like he physically grabbed her face and pulled it toward him to try to kiss her. And, uh, she pushed him away and dodged it and was like, you know, what the heck are you doing? And, uh, he, hopefully she used stronger language than that. She definitely did. I'm trying to keep it radio. All right, cool.

Very cool. You're a good guy. It helps the sound engineer not have to make so many edits. So good for you. Exactly. Okay. She pushed him off and dodged it

so nothing happened. But then he went in and tried again to kiss her a second time. And I mean, she let him have it. My fiance is a strong woman. It's part of the reason I'm with her. She doesn't take any crap, you know? So she kind of let him have it.

And he tried to make her the reason for his choice in that instance, saying that, you know, earlier in the night, she had complimented him and told him he looked nice, and he actually wrote us a... He was supposed to be the best man at my wedding,

by the way, so there's another... There's another wrench to throw in it, but... Yeah, he opted out of that role. He self-selected out, right? Definitely. But he wrote you a letter?

No, he had written us a song that he was going to play at our wedding. Was it a love song to your wife? I mean, it's hard to say at this point, looking back, you know. But anyway, it was obviously like an emotional song. We were all emotional. And so, you know, she like had her hand on his shoulder, like while we were listening to the song. And so he used that as his invitation, I guess, to, to make a pass at her when I was asleep. And then, then took it one

step further and was like, you know, you just been so nice to me lately. And, uh, I don't know what it is. It's just your eyes. And here's the kicker that he said that I, I can't get past John is he's like, I just wanted to know what it would feel like. And, uh, what an idiot. Well, I mean, I always had another word, just idiot. And so let me, let me clarify something just because I know in these moments after 20 years, like there's the rage there's the upset and then and then if you're honest 100% honest there's been some quiet in the back of

your mind did did she like lead on like was she did you play any part of this because my that's my brother right and oh yeah let me be super clear I'm thinking right now and they're i'm sure they're okay they don't listen to this show i assure you i'm thinking of two of my best friends on the planet john and todd and their wives jennifer and melissa um and i'm thinking of my wife and those two guys i would trust my wife to go on vacation with those two guys I would I have sought out. Hey melissa How do I look in this shirt? And she would say you look great, man. You like really look handsome

And not one time or jennifer. Hey, can I come crash at y'all's house while i'm in town for school? Absolutely. There's always a bed in my home like right so it? So it's some of the kindest, most hospitable. And she'll all walk in and she'll be like, oh my gosh, you've been working out. And like, yeah, never once. Is that an invitation to hook up? Right? 100%, 100%.

Because you know why? Because those two men are my brothers and that makes them my sisters. And my personal sister, who i don't talk a lot about she's she's mine like it's real close to my chest um if she tells me i look good it's like i look handsome you look good except for my wife that's like the next best good feeling when my sister says that and not one time do i think oh well i just want to know what it's like to kiss you that's just stupid man what an idiot what an idiot what a violation man so it was a complete violation so

i'm so what's your question because yeah what's your question well i'm struggling because you know obviously like you said my first instinct was i'm gonna kill him right yeah uh and then and then the the devastation and the hurt set in and just the complete betrayal of it all. And I've just been really struggling with it. I've been anxious about it. Have you talked to him? Have you talked to him? I haven't talked to him since.

I mean, I confronted him once when he decided to show up at my house when I finally found out. And I told him, you know, you just need to leave. Like, you're not welcome here. Like, I can't talk to you right now, you know? Um, and, uh, I just told him like, I need some space, man. Like, you know, I will reach out when, uh, when I'm ready to talk. So, so, you know, uh, I took about a week and then I finally decided like, okay, I might be at a point where I can like type something out and send it to him, you know? And, uh, because initially he sent me a text message saying that he felt bad and, and, you know, he doesn't remember much. And then he said, and then he said, he said, if what's being said actually happens and I'm more apologetic than I can express. And I'm like, that's just a cop out. Yeah. So not only is he, did he make a pass at your about to be a wife twice physically, right?

And again, like you mentioned, it's not like there was like this closeness and then like, it just kind of happened. He grabbed her face, right? He made a physical, like he took hold of possession of trying to take possession of her body, right? He made a physical, like he took hold of possession of trying to take possession of her body. Right. That's, that's, that's a, that's a layer. That's a layer deeper. Um, then he doesn't have the character to look in the eye and say, dude, I screwed up in the deepest way possible. Right.

He's like, uh, if, uh, if, uh, yeah, I don't have any time for it, man. But get your question, man. Get your question. I talk too long on these sometimes. No, you're good. You're good. I just am trying to figure out how, number one, if I should even allow him to speak his piece in this. And number two, like, how do I get closure from this man? Because like, obviously he's out of the wedding like that's 100 but more than that like i am at this point feel like i'm mourning a 20-year friendship and i just i'm not sure you are if i

need i don't i'm not sure if i need to give him a chance to talk it out or if i just need to find closure on my own with this um i'm gonna say something's probably not going to be very popular on the internet, and I don't care. I think that's person-specific. Yeah. I don't know that closure is right for everybody. I know me, and I'm thinking back to the friends I have that are 20-year friends. I personally, I feel like I would have to know. What are you doing?

That only can happen if someone's willing to take ownership of what they did. Right. Right. Which is not. Yeah. And so at that point, I got nothing to say, man,

because not only did you, did you go after, after my wife, but, um, you think I'm dumb and you're calling me a liar, right? And you're calling my wife a liar. Yeah.

So, I mean, at every level, there's violations of trust there. I do, I got to tell you. So for me, I hold those type of friendships so sacred. They're holy to me, right? They are so important that I would have to hear somebody out that, but, but that is not instructive wisdom for everybody. That's just me. Yeah. I think in a lot of cases, um, that would be, it would be it. It'd be it. And here's, here's, I always go back to the heaping burning coals, right? I don't think it would be

something where I'm going to puff up and act like a Instagram hero and try to be all tough. I don't think that's the thing. I think the conversation to be had is I need you to hear me say, you violated my trust at the corest level. You tried to take possession of my wife's body And I need you to hear hear me say you've opted out of friendship with me and my family So this is it. I wish you the best and um, this is over and I know it sounds dramatic and that sounds like like a like a Romantic breakup, but I think after 20 years There's something to be heard.

He needs to hear the resolve for you. Not the, you, because then you, you pull yourself down to his level, right? Of this, like you,

you turn into a high school kid that can't control himself. I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to stoop to your level. I'm going to let you know as an adult, you opted out of this and it breaks my heart, you're my best friend and bye right and and i think there's something to that um but also you and everybody listening that is not for everybody there are some better things just dude i'm not even going to um i've gotten bit doing that like going back to the well right getting back someone's ugly to me and I reach back out to them and it just digs the hole deeper for me

Um, I really try to go the extra mile on some of those things Um, and it's it's often not worth it. But for me, I would feel the need to say I'm putting a period into this i'm ending this not you what you did doesn't end things. I am And um, I wish you the best. And I'm going to move on with my life. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that'd be the way I handle it. I mean, that's what I've been leaning towards, honestly,

especially because like we mostly communicate over social. And that week after it happened that I was finally calm enough to write something out to him, I went on to our platform that we normally talk on. And I'm like, like oh we're not friends so then i started digging and he removed me from all social media yeah i haven't got a chance to talk to him so i feel like that tells me what i need to know bro get out of that world that's that's like that's like he broke up with you in legend of zelda it's not real right so i wouldn't go through like did you is he following me? Did he like my post? Get out of that planet, dude. You're going to drive yourself insane.

Be a grown man and sit down and talk to him. Or talk to him on the phone. I don't feel like talking to you. I don't want to come see you or come whatever. But that's going to be that, right? So, yeah, I don't have some big magical thing. I wish I did. Um, I can tell you that I think the friendship's over. I don't know that you move past that, but I also think that, um, you get to decide everybody listening. You get to decide how does

the period into this sentence. If the period is, I'm not ever having that conversation again. Great. Great. Hold your head up high. Don't be a child about it. It's over. Somebody violated you at your core. And I'll also say this. We are often, you know, the old saying goes like, he stabbed me in the back. We are often not prepared when people we love and care about stab us in the face. And it happens. They look you in the eye and they lie to you. They look you in the eye and deeply betray you. And what you said, right? Mourning and grieving, that's what it is. It's a death of something. Because what we had was brotherhood. What we had was, I will be there at 2 a.m. What we had was, you can always stay at my house. Your wife can always stay at my house And that's over now

And that hurts man It's not cool to say it and it's like I don't want to wait. It's dawson's creaky. I get that It hurts man. It hurts and so there's gonna have to be a season of grieving that and mourning that and then you jared You're gonna have to go find new 20 year friends because you can't do life without them And you can't be like, oh that guy hurt me that one time I'm out. No, dude, that's what that guy did. And I'll tell you, I got some close, close, close buddies. Very close. And I'm not worried for one second about them making a pass on my wife. I'm just not. And so those friends are out there. There's more of those

friends than what your idiot buddy did. And I'm heartbroken for you, man. 20 year friendships take 20 years to develop. That's hard. It's a lot of investment and time and love. And I hate that you got burned with it, man. I hate that. But I can't make the call for you, but I do want to know how you decided to handle it. Holler back at me and let me know. Let me know how it goes. And by the way, don't communicate electronically. Be an adult. No electronic back and forth. That world's over. Call him on the phone or go meet him for coffee. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Let's talk about hallow. All right. I say this all the time.

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Let's go out to Omaha, Nebraska. What's up, Jane? How we doing? Hi, John. I'm good. How are you? Partying. What's up?

That's not true. I lied to you just now. I'm not partying atying. What's up? That's not true. I lied to you just now. I'm not partying at all. What's up? So my question kind of revolves, it's kind of a long thing, but more so about how to move on or forgive after, and I don't even know if this is the right term, like emotional infidelity. Okay. Talk to me about it. So my husband and I have been together for over seven years now, just married for a little bit less than two. And last December, I found that he was having like inappropriate conversations with like not

only a coworker, but an employee of his. So inappropriate, like sexualized. Okay. All right. Yep. Yep. Um, it never even crossed my mind, but you know, looking, of course, hindsight, looking back that November, we traveled out of town with the, what this woman and her husband for a conference. So we were all down in Florida and they wanted to have rooms close to each other so that we could hang out and everything, blah, blah, blah. Well, I gotta just say, that's the most spurned woman thing, blah, blah, blah. Right. So good. Like it was just, it was odd. Like, okay, whatever. That's fine. So in December, my husband was taking our kids to go play dodgeball for a work event. I was supposed to go to a concert that same Saturday night with a group of girlfriends.

We both had plans. Great. It was fine. Well, I ended up getting sick that Friday night before. So I was out with the flu while undergoing IVF treatment. So that I'm sure didn't help everything as well. Took our kids to play dodgeball. Hey, you need anything before I leave? Nope, just get out of here. I don't feel well. Don't want the kids around. So that'll be perfect.

His plan was to go to dodgeball and then everybody, because everybody brought their kids too, they were all going to meet up at a restaurant for dinner afterwards and just hang out after and have a couple drinks. Not a big deal. So he kind of fell off the face of the earth that afternoon slash evening. Come to find out, my mother-in-law actually came to pick up my kids just a couple hours later and took them to see Santa. And my husband decided to go to his buddy's girlfriend's house with him and his buddy, who is a newly divorced gentleman and this other girl by themselves. And this had been set up like two weeks in advance. What happened there?

Yeah. So they had a whole group conversation for a week before. And he just gave me a bunch of false details. There was never a plan to go to dinner. What happened at that house? Oh, well, I don't know. He turned his location off on his phone. It was like nine o'clock at night.

What does he say happened at that house? While I like to think that nothing physically happened. No, what did he say? What did he say? Oh, that they just had some beers and ate pizza and played cards. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Like, and with his buddy, they do do that, but it's always guys. And then we go out to our cabin and we do that. Like his front, like I've known this guy for years as well. So I just thought, well, that's just weird. Why would you turn your location off? You were not honest with me about going to this woman's house. And then I found out, of course, through questioning. I just had a great gut instinct, unfortunately. Like, nope, they didn't go to dinner. They went to this woman's home.

He actually left their home with this other girl to drive her back to work because she was actually supposed to be at work training a new person. So they drove around and were hanging out by themselves for an undetermined period of time. All right. So let's stop playing Matlock. Bring me to the present. Like this, clearly this happened, right? Yes and um there's a i've just just lost it um it's too early in the morning um there's a legal term which basically says there's a moment when um the judge turns to the jury and basically because of the deception that appears to be happening in the room you all'all get to make up whatever you want. Maybe it's pleading the fifth.

My lawyer friends are going to be embarrassed that I don't know this, I'll flop my head. But basically, because you created this environment, jury, y'all get to imagine whatever worst case scenario you want to. And that is fact

because this person won't speak up and let us know what actually happened. And so I'm giving you that opportunity. Because your husband chose to deceive and lie in so many ways in such a premeditated way, you get to imagine whatever you want happened to that house. Yeah. Okay, so bring me, we are months away from December, so bring me up to speed. How can I help? So, I mean, obviously, I mean, he continued to like lie the entire conversation

that we had about that. And he kept trying to cover it up and then he lied more and yada. And I figured it out. He's a liar and he cheats on you. He continued to communicate with this woman. Okay. He's opting out of relationship with you.

Yeah. He's out. He has opted out So His justification for the continued Conversation There's none, whatever you're about to tell me, there's none Here's why Because his wife looked at him and said, I think you cheated on me with this woman

And he said, I promise I didn't, she's just my friend And you as his wife said This makes me uncomfortable, this makes me sick to my stomach I don't trust this. And any self-respecting romantic partner in that moment goes, then this ends because there is no other relationship

more important than this. So whatever justification there is, I don't care. Even despite how not cool it is, it's probably the most benign way I could say that besides possibly illegal possibly whatever

if it's somebody that works for you then for sure I'm going to have somebody like this person's boss this person's leader talk to them not me that's where that communication ends well that's the problem

so he's her boss so this what is it last Monday communication ends. Well, that's the problem. So he's her boss. So this was last Monday was when I found that she had texted him. And what's even better is that her best friend texted him an inappropriate picture of these two girls. And he deleted it from his phone and he ended up responding like i'm married this

is inappropriate i'm blocking your number don't ever try and contact me again good for him but like the fact that that happened like obviously like he has he does not do well with confrontation where i'm all for it if it the situation calls for it Except you're not dealing with this. Why not? No. So this I did. So I actually told him that if you don't go to HR and address it, I will. And I promise that you will both lose your jobs. I do not care. This is not okay. I'm at that point where I'm already like one foot out the door. Okay. So what's your question? Well, okay. So this girl got removed from her position. You keep going foot out the door. Okay. So what's your question? Well, okay. So this girl got removed from her position.

You keep going back to the story. Tell me, ask me your question. Ask me your question. I'm just trying to decide, like, do I just call it quits or do I continue to try and work and do therapy and counseling with him? As now, you know, he says it's not going to continue. What's not going to continue. What's not going to continue? Like conversations with anybody outside of our marriage. Didn't he say that last time?

That's the thing. However, all of the conversations that I had seen were work-related because given his position, he has to be available like 24-7. Like he's a director of an emergency room. So he has to be available at all times. And as the fact that she was his employee, there were times that she had to be in communication with him. Yeah, I get that. I mean, I mean, I get it in theory, right? I've been on call 24, seven, three 65. I get that life. And you have to, you just gotta answer. I get that. And you know, he kept the conversations very short and sweet. He actually did have a documented conversation with her between this last incident and the first incident where it was documented with another

member of the staff and HR that your communication with me is not appropriate. That's not what you should be doing. You need to keep it professional. Okay. The reason that you should be acting this way. So there was a previously documented thing. So that, that, that, that to me, like, um, is a step in the right direction, but you keep focusing on him and you're in, so doing you're avoiding Jane, you're avoiding you. Okay. The only way I've seen this and by the way i have seen this repaired completely like and not only repaired but something else more magnificent has been built in its place okay not to say that people should run out and cheat on their spouse just so they can build something new no but um i've seen it happen two things have to be present for that to happen, or three.

The first one is everybody's got to be honest about what happened. Everybody. And you still have doubts to the original integrity of his story. And just as a guy, Roman walking down the road, who's been married for a long long time that story sounds sketch Here's why um If you premeditate something for weeks

To set something up And you go to the trouble to deceive your wife have somebody else come pick up your kids. I mean the whole the whole thing You don't do that for a couple of beers and cards. You know what I mean? You go drink beers and play cards. At worst, you tell your wife, hey, I'm going over to my buddy's house, and you don't tell him that she's going to be there. You don't go through this whole thing.

Something else was going on. Okay? So that's number one. I don't buy the story. You got to have complete honesty across the board. And that might be you saying, okay, this is the moment. This is the moment. I'm interested in staying in this thing because I have a sense in your heart you are,

but you feel like you should leave and that you're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. And that rock and a hard place is Jane left and Jane hard place is jane left and jane, right? So I think there's something to be said for i'm interested in it, but we can go no further until you say everything The second one is you have to be honest and very very clear About what trust rebuilding looks like Because you can't have him read your mind Yeah rebuilding looks like because you can't have him read your mind. Yeah. You have to say, if there is any work conversation between you and this woman, I get to see it. And by the way,

we review your text once a week, or I'm going to put this app on your phone. If that's what you need, if you turn your tracker off, then I file for divorce. Like whatever you think you need for a season to begin to rebuild trust. But most people don't have the courage to say what they actually need. And then they just get mad when the other person doesn't meet some, doesn't read their mind, right? The third thing is if you are in, and again, he's not on the phone. I'd be having a whole different conversation if he was on the phone. But with you, if you choose to stay, you have chosen to stay. And this cannot be something that you keep in your back pocket every day for the rest of your marriage. And that's what I think I'm definitely struggling

with. I can tell because even, even the ability just to say, Hey, what's going on in your heart. I got it. I want to, I got to tell the story again. I got to tell the story again. I got to tell the story again. And my pro I guarantee you, you have looped that story in your mind for months, right? Yeah. And have you imagined things that happened in your mind for months? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yes. And then you get sick, and then you get mad at him.

And so now you've – he's – granted, he set this world up, but he is now on the receiving end of your imagination. And as I told you earlier, he created that, right? By just giving you a stupid story. He didn't even try hard to lie to you. Right. By giving you a stupid story, fine. I get to make up whatever I want then.

And so those three things have to be true for this thing to work. And what does that look like in real time? The first one is you have to decide that every time that thought pops in your mind about him walking in that apartment, that you stop that right there. You don't go that extra road where she walks up to him and he reaches up and undoes the top. But you can't do that. You have to choose to opt out of that imaginary scenario

because you don't know. And even if you do know, you have to choose to not continue to revisit that scenario because y'all are building something new now. That's your work. But also, I'll say it again, you can't do that work on a foundation of dishonesty. He's got to come clean. Yeah.

And if he comes clean and says, I'm looking you in the eyes, I'm holding both your hands, I'm sitting here with our counselor. I did not have a physical relationship with her. I sounded like Bill Clinton just then. Yeah, I was just like, Kelly, I sounded like Bill Clinton just then. You have to decide whether I can believe him or not. And I've heard men look me in the eye and say, dude, I didn't do anything. And she doesn't believe me. I've heard men look me in the eye and say dude I didn't do anything and she doesn't believe me I've heard that and I've also heard women be like no I trust him and I'm like what why do you trust so I can't give that to you but you're gonna have to decide that that's gonna be have to be a call that you make I recommend having a neutral third party there whether that's a counselor whether

that's a minister y'all trust whether that's somebody that is going to help navigate the conversation. But it's got to start from a place of honesty. It's got to start from a place of you telling the truth, like here's what I need. And it's going to be you on your side saying, I'm going to stop going back to back to i'm gonna try to build something new and he's gonna have to live into the things that you you requested of him he's gonna have to be a person of integrity and stop um either stalking sexually explicitly with his someone who works for him which is completely inappropriate or sleeping with somebody that works for him it's completely inappropriate whatever he's got to stop all that. And it sounds like what you're saying is he's

making some steps in that right direction. I also know it is so easy that when somebody has a crush on you, that you lean into that. It feels good. It feels awesome. And it just becomes a slippery slope, right? It just becomes a slippery slope. I get it. But y'all gonna have to choose to build something new regardless. Let me know how that conversation goes, Jane.

I wish I could just wave my magic wand and say this is what you should do, but there's a lot of complexity here and I still don't think the truth is out. And he wants to call me. I'd love to talk to him. That would make for some clarity for me and probably offer some clarity for the audience too. We'll be right back.

All right, we're back. Let's go out to Chicago and talk to Megan. What's up, Megan? Yes, hi. How are you, Dr. D? talk to Megan. What's up, Megan? Yes. Hi, how are you, Dr. D? I'm good. What's up, dude? How are you?

I'm doing pretty good, too. Thanks for asking. Of course. My husband and I are just huge fans of you, so we just wanted to give a little shout-out and say thank you for all you do because you've really helped improve our lives. Also, I think he's a little jealous that i get to talk to you today are you guys coming to the uh live event chicago we are so we're very excited about that all right i want you to hang on the line and uh i'm gonna get your info from jenna and i'm gonna get you

backstage and you can come meet everybody and get photos and all that kind of stuff. Is that cool? That is more than beyond cool. Oh, my gosh. My husband's going to be so excited. Okay, but you got to tell your husband that, like, hey, I know some folks and so I hooked us up. Okay? Cool?

Oh, I will. I'll say it with my friends over at Ramsey Network. Even better, if you don't tell him at all and you ask him to wear the literally the dumbest shirt he has in his closet and then surprise him, they'll be captured in photo, photo, photo forever. Right. Okay. So onto the call. So what's up? Um, so I guess I'll ask my question and then give a little bit of context. Um, so now that I'm newly a mom, how do I stop my chronic people pleasing and set up boundaries for my daughter with Emily? Well, you do seven somersaults and some jumpy jacks and it goes away. I'm just kidding. So give me a scenario. You called for a reason.

What happened? So I have like kind of two scenarios. One that's recently happened. And then one we're trying to figure out how to newly approach since the one didn't go as how we were hoping. Our daughter was born extremely premature at 26 weeks. And for the safety of her, we set some rules once she finally came out of the NICU. But now we've recently been kind of like guilt tripped into trying to break those boundaries. Okay, hold on.

I'm going to interrupt you as we go. Is that cool? Yeah. Oh, sure. I'm going to teach you how to do this for yourself as a people pleaser, okay? Okay.

So one of the most important things is to not let the ball get pushed off the top of the mountain because the stone, cause it just starts rolling and it collects things. Remember those old cartoons where the, uh, the snowball gets pushed off the top of the mountain. And by the time it gets to the bottom, it's just huge. That's what our thoughts do. Okay. So I'm going to interrupt you and this is what you need to do as you're heading into the rest of motherhood, okay? Okay. Number one, this child is your baby, you and your husband's baby.

You made some rules as a couple about the health and safety of your baby, probably in consultation with a doctor. Nobody else gets a vote. Okay? Yes. Cool. All right. So when you are walking on the street and you're like, I know, but they're starting to guilt trip me. I'm going to interrupt myself and go, hold on. I'm the mom. I'm the mom. Nobody gets a vote except for my husband. That's it. All right. Onto the next. Okay. So they're guilt tripping you. Yeah. I mean, they've always just guilt tripped us in general.

Who's they, by the way? In-laws? All four sets of families. All four. Sweet. Yeah. Well, because my parents are divorced and then his parents are currently working through their divorce. Oh, fantastic. We, we have, yeah. So we have four

sets of families, um, and she's the first grand baby. Oh, gee. Um, so I'm trying to break, like being a people pleaser and learn how to set boundaries because I want to lead by example, just knowing, like, I don't want my daughter to grow up the same and struggle with things and situations I have because I was kind of raised this way. Kind of a hundred percent. A thousand percent. Yeah. Okay. Let me, let me interrupt. So here's at the core of people pleasing. What I think, what I know, and what I feel matter less than what everybody else thinks, feels, and knows.

And so the reversal of that process is to begin with what kind of life do I want to live? What kind of home do me and my husband want to co-create together? Right. And you build that out that way. And often, this sounds counterintuitive and it's very non-Instagrammy, right? Start with feelings.

What do you want your home to feel like when y'all walk into it? I want my house, and I'll tell you, me and my wife did this exercise. I wanted my house to feel warm when I walked into it. And interestingly, that meant I had to clean up my crap. And when my house feels chaotic and a little bit cold, it's often because I've got piles of just stuff everywhere. I'm a piler, right?

I wanted there to be laughter and joy in my house, more so than frustration and bickering and chaos. Last night, we put all the phones away and we played Trivia Pursuit. And we have the kid one for when my daughter gets there and my son's with the adult one. We were talking trash. We were laughing, dancing. It was just

turned into a mess. And it ended with crying and tears like they usually do. But the 80% we got out, it was awesome, right? But we chose, I want our house to feel like this. And then we reverse engineered that with what do we have to do to make it feel like that, right? And conversely, what do we want our holidays to feel like? What do we want the first three months of our baby's life to feel like? And what has to be true for that to happen? And it might be, we're not visiting family for the first 90 days. It's our first baby. We're going to get our head screwed up on straight. This baby was really dicey out of the gate. We're going to make sure everybody's on top of things. And then we'll reach back out.

And that's you ending people pleasing by saying, I matter. The way I feel, what I know to be true, what my doctor suggests, what I think, that stuff matters. And that's how you work your way out of it. And you're like, that's cute. Okay, but how do I make them not hate me, right?

Well, so she's been home for about two months, so we did kind of go through similarly that. But funny enough, my question was about and how we approach that because, uh, we'd want to kind of change family traditions and start our own here, which would include having Christmas morning alone. Say that out loud, probably in an email. Okay. Okay. Say that in an email. Me and let's pretend your husband's name was Dan. Me and Dan are creating our new family traditions for our core family unit. And part of that will be, we don't travel on New Year's Day. Part of that will be, we don't travel on Christmas Eve. We wake up and have Christmas as a family

unit on Christmas morning. And then y' all decide what comes after that. If he has to go back to work the next day, that means we have from noon until 7 p.m. at night before baby goes down. And I want to tell you this, this is hard in divorced families, and this is unpopular what I'm about to say, and I don't care.

They chose to get divorced. They chose, they decided as adults to either be able to or not be able to be in the same room together. They made that choice as adults. They're not babies. They're not kids. And so if they have chosen to get divorced and they have chosen to not be able to, I'm not being in the same room with them or it'd be too weird. Great. We're making one stop. So we'll see y'all this year and we'll see them next year. Ta-da. That is not y'all withholding. That is them making adult choices. You see the difference? Yes. And you, Megan, are not responsible for other adult choices. You see the difference? Yes. And you, Megan, are not responsible for other adult choices.

You're responsible for you and your family unit and you and your husband working together. Right. Yeah. I know that's hard, but listen, sending an email is good because A, that keeps the pressure people from talking you out of what you've already decided. That stops the, okay, but all right, I'll call you back. Let me think on it. But your dad has to do this thing and your stepmom needs to go do this with her kids. And so we need you to be here. That's not going to work this year.

And so if you send out a map via email, this is the way this is going to be. And let me be honest with you, 100%. You're going to put up these boundaries. As soon as you told everybody you were pregnant, they created a picture in their mind of what this baby was going to do for their life. Very accurate. life. So any boundary you put up is something they're going to have to grieve because it's changing the picture that they created. But your baby is not a puzzle piece in their puzzle. This baby is not a pacifier for their life. This baby is not a cigarette or a drink to make them feel better about the world they've created.

This is a human being and it's yours. And so I say that to say, expect them to be upset with you. Expect them to be like, well, I just can't believe that. That's fair. That's fair.

And I'm going to tell you on the back end of that years, years later, my in-laws, my parents are so respectful when we say, Hey, this year has been bananas. This year, we're going to have way more time this year. We can spend two days this year. We can spend one day or we're not traveling at all. That's the email we sent out last year. Hey, we're not going to be on the road this year. John's traveling like crazy, meeting with businesses and we're just not going to travel.

We're going to spend a time together as a family and we're also not hosting this year. We're just going to take a year off. I know that. I know that was hard for my parents. I know that. And they that was hard for my parents. I know that. And they were so respectful because we built a culture of they trust the son that they raised.

My wife's parents trust the daughter that they raised, that they're going to do what's best for their family unit. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. Yeah. The mama bear in me really wants to do this. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes, yeah. The mama bear in me really wants to do this. I guess it just hurts when I get called neurotic for doing so. Listen, listen, they're going to call you way worse before it's over. And can I be honest with you?

You probably are a little neurotic, and that's okay. You know, right? Probably you are a little bit. Right. Yeah, okay, so it's fair. It's fair. It's fair What I think is really important in these moments, um, honestly is a couple of girlfriends of yours that you have 24 hour 365 text availability

Um, I remember watching my wife she was smart enough to get that on the front end and it was a it was a lifeline Because she was able to text a group of three women, I think it was, maybe four, 24-7, 365. Hey, is this rash normal? Is this weird? What happens if there's fever? I feel like I hate my husband. Is this all normal? And she had friends that would respond instantly. And there is, I'll push back on culture a little bit here too. There is part of a family legacy. You have to make the trip sometimes, right? You got to go see family.

It's long. It's annoying. Being a part of a family tree is not mean it's always just the greatest thing ever. There is long road trips for a one-day trip. There is expensive flights sometimes. That's part of it. And so I don't want you to create boundaries so much that you isolate yourself from everybody.

But you get to decide when those long trips are going to be and for what purposes. And having a group of women in your life that you can text and be like, am I crazy? Am I neurotic? And they'll go, yeah, you're insane. Go to the birthday.

What's the matter with you? And they don't have any skin in the game other than they love you and they'll tell you the truth. Is that fair? Yeah. It keeps you from feeling like you are fighting in-laws by yourself

and having to decide why all four of these adults, couples, are ganging up on you, right? Right. Yeah. Here's the exercise I want you to do. I want you to go with your husband and I want you all to start with how do we want the first holiday with our new baby to feel? Do we want it to feel adventurous? Do we want it to feel still and quiet to feel? Do we want it to feel adventurous? Do we want it to feel still and quiet and calm? Do we want it to feel gentle? Do we want it to feel like a party?

You get to decide. Everybody's different. And then you get to decide from there, okay, that means we probably shouldn't travel this year. If we want to be calm and chill, we should not travel. We want it to have adventures. We want our first Christmas with our little one. We want it to be like fun and like we're cool parents still. Great. Get a two-week

road trip. Take off work. Go get them, right? Y'all get to decide that. But I want y'all to begin to map it out. And as you enter into September, October, send the email out early to all families. This is what this is going to be. And by the way, if they're like, we don't like to be included on emails with your mother's ex-husband. Sorry, I'm sending one email, guys. I'm not going to cut the crust off your bread. You can be an adult. But I'm going to send this out to everybody and just say, hey, look, here's what we're going to do for Christmas this year.

Here's when we're going to be available or not available. And we're so honored that y'all are going to walk alongside us as we create this new family. And I think just taking some ownership there, let them say what they're going to say. And by the way, if they say a bunch of ugly, mean stuff, then they may opt out completely. You get to decide that. You get to decide that. Stay on the line. Jenna's gonna, she's gonna get your info for the backstage stuff. And she's gonna send you a copy of my brand new book,

Building a Non-Anxious Life. I want you and your husband to work through this book together in the exercise as you follow the path. I think it would help your home, your entire home to say, okay, who are we attached to that's running our life for us? Who are we trying to please? What companies are telling us what we're doing with our time and our money and whatever?

It's going to help you reclaim ownership. It's a book about empowerment and hope. And I want to give that to you all as a gift, as a baby gift. If you're going to create a home, it's going to be different than the one you grew up in. And a marriage is going to be different than the one you grew up in. And a marriage is going to be different than the one y'all both watched fall apart. And a kid that's not going to be a people pleaser, but a kid that's going to know their own inherent value and worth. You're awesome. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed

at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, Kelly just brought in Rick Springfield lyrics, Jessie's Girl. What are we doing here?

So when you were on the first call with Jared about his best friend hitting on his fiance, immediately in my mind, instead of Jessie's Girl, I started singing Jared's Girl. There we are's girl, I started singing Jared's girl. There we are. I wish that I had Jared's girl. Yep. Huh.

All you that write in your comments and say that I'm the one that has the problems, I want you to see what we're working with here. No, I want y'all to see what I'm working with. That explains a lot.

All right, so we're going to insert it. Jared is a friend. Yeah, I know he's been a good friend of mine. Jared, bro, we're just laughing with you because that's all we can do, right? But lately something's changed. It ain't hard to define. Jared's got himself a girl that I

want to make her mind. This is just going to get dark quick. And she's watching him with those uh i think price is gonna stop here this is the part where deloney usually gets himself in a lot of trouble because he thinks things are funny that other people don't i love you guys stay in school be nice to each other or be kind at least tell the truth be good see you soon bye-bye