The Dr. John Delony Show - My Daughter Saw Her Father Assault Me

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

In today’s episode, we talk with a mom worried about her daughter who’s become overly protective of her body after witnessing assault, a man unable to let go after his wife left him a year ago, and a police officer processing the Uvalde shooting. Lyrics of the Day: "Running Up That Hill" - Kate Bush Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I need some help with my marriage. The next thing I know, she sent me a text in January saying, I'm ending this marriage, I'm moving out of the house, and that was that. I can't tell if you are having trouble facing reality, because this isn't help with your marriage. This is coming to terms with your wife has left you. What's up?

This is John with the Dr. John Maloney Show. What's happening? Hope you're doing well. Man, I don't watch the news very much. And so I catch it like, you know, five minutes a week or something like that. And I mean, man, things are bonkers. Hope you're well. And hope you are getting away from that mess

and getting involved locally in your home, with your neighborhood, with your friends, with your local archery club, whatever. I don't know, local communities, local church, whatever you're doing, um, please, please, please turn the, the devices off and be with humans, please be with humans, after the show, of course, after the show, so, um, this is, uh, this is my confession, my buddy Ian Simpkins, he's one of the smartest people I've ever met. He posted this on the internets the other day. And it's one of those things that I don't, like I've scrolled through this nonsense trying to figure out how to do my job. And this is one

that stopped me in my tracks. And it's rare that happens, but this one did. And all it says is this, rest can feel like stress if busyness is how you medicate. I'll say that again. Rest can feel like stress if busyness is how you medicate. So I found myself at the end of book tour, the end of the radio shows. I mean, I co-host the second largest radio show in the country. This podcast is just bananas in terms of numbers, people listening to it, hanging on there. And then we come out with the number one bestselling book, and we hit the road, and we're all over the place. And I say we. I can't do this.

I don't do any of this by myself. There's a team everywhere. And then we landed the other day and we exhaled. And then it was Wednesday we landed, Wednesday night. It was back up here Thursday, recording more, Friday. And then all of a sudden Monday hit and I was just like The day just kept going And my body said Hey, we're about to shut you down

And I remember this feeling back If you've read my book I remember this feeling From the very first chapter When you start seeing stuff that's not there When you start hearing things And it's my body telling me You're lonely

You're not hanging out with people You've been running around the country Los Angeles to New York Back to Los Angeles To Vegas to Vegas, to Florida, all over the place, Texas and all over the place. You're lonely, you're not sleeping, you're exercising three times a week in sporadic instead of the normal routine you have. We're about to shut you down if you don't make some changes. And it's so great, man. I do this for a living. I tell other people, hey, here's some changes you can make in your life.

And it's bizarre to have that happen to me in real time and realize, no, I got to go make some changes. And so I had some conversations with my wife, which were hard, and basically saying, hey, I got to take my foot off the gas for a minute. And I struggle with that because busyness is how I medicate. If I'm just making something new or building something new or writing something new, then I can keep pushing and pushing. And so it's just me being honest, just saying it out loud. If busyness is how you medicate, there will come a moment when your body will say, I'm out. And that might look like anxiety.

That might look like depression. That might look like I'm quitting my job. That might look like returning a text to somebody that you probably shouldn't be texting with for various reasons, going back to an abusive relationship. Whatever the thing is, your body will say, I'm out. We got to go find some medication and some distractions somewhere else. So this is me committing, recommitting, if you will. It's been a tough season. It's been one of the most extraordinary seasons of my life. I wouldn't trade it for anything. The relationships, the friendships, the fun, the excitement, the joy, all that stuff. And most importantly, it's getting to sit with thousands and thousands of you

telling me about life change that you are making. By the way, people say like, you changed my life. I didn't change anything, dude. I run my mouth on a podcast. You're the one actually saying, okay, I'm going to have this hard conversation. I'm going to go back to the gym. I'm going to call my doctor. I'm going to go back on medication. I'm going to go see a counselor. I'm going to go see a counselor. I'm going to go see a counselor. I'm going to knock on the door to a new church and see what happens, or I'm going to leave this church for good. I'm out. Y'all are doing the hard work.

And it's just been the greatest honor of my life to walk with you through that. At the same time, we're going to keep shooting the show, of course. We're going to keep doing everything we're doing. But I'm also going to have a season here for the next 30 days or so of getting my body back in order, my head back in order, my relationships back in order, just hanging out, doing some fun stuff. Tonight, me and my daughter are going on a date. She's going to dress up nice. She's going to dress up nice. I'm going to dress up nice. I'm going to pick her up.

And we're going to go on a date. And I'm looking forward to it. And I will say this. Kelly, when I asked her last night, will you go on a date with me? She said, maybe. And I was like, dude, my high school heart can't handle another maybe, dude.

She was like, maybe I'll think about it. And this is why I love Sheila. Ah, geez. She's trained, maybe I'll think about it. And this is why I love Sheila. Ah, jeez. She's trained my daughter well. Unbelievable. Maybe. All right. So that's it.

Rest can feel stressful if busyness is how you medicate. We all gotta rest. I'm gonna take a break. Recharge. Refill the pitcher, if you will. My friend Will Godera says he's a restaurateur

and we're all just waiters and waitresses filling other people's water pitcher. And if you don't stop and refill your pitcher, you're not going to have anything to share with anybody else. So here's to a season of restoration, and here's to a season of what comes next. All right, let's go to Grace in Duluth. What's up, Grace? How we doing? Holy cow, I'm talking to John Deloney I just said the same thing

Holy cow, I'm talking to Grace This is amazing What's up? I'm good How about you? I am a huge fan and it's an honor to talk to you Well, thank you And I'm a huge fan of yours also

Huge both because I haven't been exercising fan and it's an honor to talk to you. Well, thank you. And I'm a huge fan of yours also. Huge both because I haven't been exercising and huge because just in size and scope. So, so what's up? How can I help you? Cool. Um, so I have an eight-year-old daughter who is just everything that is wonderful in the world, full of sass, energy, heart, all of it. Um, but she's struggling and I don't know how much of it is because she has started going through puberty and how much of it is due to abuse that she's witnessed at home. So tell me about the abuse she's witnessed. Her dad had undiagnosed bipolar and he was mentally and emotionally abusive to her. He was mentally, emotionally, physically, financially, sexually abusive to me.

She was six when she watched him like inappropriately grope me and I would try and push him away and say not from her, whatever. She's asked me several times why daddy touched your boobies when you didn't want him to. What was your answer? I said, daddy's not, he was sick. Daddy, we've talked about his bipolar compared to a teeter-totter that everybody has emotions that go up and down. Daddy's teeter-totter is just really, really big. Is dad still living at home? No, we're divorced. I kicked him out. daughter is just really really big does dad still live in that home control um no i were divorced

um i kicked him out i realized when i finally realized he had actually been raping me um and then just knowing the how the abuse was affecting her like she tackled a kid at school that was picking on her friend she made another kid bleed because they were restraining her. She was constantly tearful, constantly saying, Mommy, can you tell Daddy to be nice to me? Because the only way he would speak to her would be yelling. So let me stop here.

Let me stop here. Yeah. I am proud of you for doing a really hard thing. And there's a level of bravery and strength that most people never understand what you've experienced and the choice to enter into being a single mom. And I'm proud of you for doing that.

For you, for her, for your legacy. Okay. I'm proud of you. That's hard. You did the right thing. Okay. And by the way, mental health diagnostics are a context, not an excuse. Okay. So I don't care what diagnosis he has. Nobody gets to put his hands on you. Nobody gets to sexually assault or rape you. Nobody gets to hurt you or your children. Right? Right.

I'm proud of you. It's hard. I also know living with somebody with bipolar makes you feel crazy. Is that right? I still feel crazy. I know you do. And so now we're going to enter into a season of you reclaiming your own two feet, right?

Yeah. Okay. I'm proud of you. It's hard, hard, hard, hard. And you're a strong, brave human being. Do you have people in your life that you can lean on? I have. I do. Yeah. Okay. You cannot go forward alone and you know that, but make sure you got people you can call or text at all hours of the night. Okay. So your questions about your little

one. All right. So tell me about what she's experiencing. She's got some school stuff that, I mean, it's a very, she's, um, she's experienced violence, right? She has a very strong sense of justice. There you go. Yeah. She has a very strong sense of justice. So if someone is wronging someone she cares about or wronging her, she will fly off the handle.

She does not, um, she doesn't handle male discipline well, even if it's, Hey, we've asked you to brush your teeth three times. You know, you need to do it now. Um, she doesn't handle any kind of male sternness. Well, it scares her.

Yes. Um, so think of, um, from this point forward, um, think of men telling her what to do in her life as, um,

uh, as a horror movie character with a hatchet. Right. Okay? There's no processing it. There's no making the next right good choice. It is a little child's body that is pretty sure it's going to die, and it responds accordingly.

Right. Okay? And so that healing looks like not being a little more less sassy or a little more like compliant. It is, I've got to heal a brain that sees a man and sets off an alarm. Right. She's been in counseling for over a year and a half. She's also in, so she does like counseling with a therapist, but she also does skills counseling that teaches her how to give her tools on how to deal with her anxiety, look at context of situations. Awesome. Was someone yelling at me because I wasn't listening or were they yelling at me because I'm mean?

We've been doing all of that. Great. Even I have to, and I'm okay with it. I understand it. But even I have to ask permission to give her hugs and kisses. Yes. And her dad's dad, unfortunately, who also has bipolar, um, will, will get on her for not giving him a hug. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no way. And that, that ends today. That is today. Okay, so here's what she's learning. She had a, okay, a couple of things.

When kids witness domestic violence, and by the way, I checked in with my friend who's an expert in this before. Yeah. I called her, she's a savant and she goes into these situations regularly.

And so i actually didn't know this as much as i've worked with trauma and with little ones that i didn't know this particular thing that kids when they witness the abuse like you experienced their little bodies take it on as though it happened to them and so so I want you to, a counselor may have told you that. I didn't know it was that visceral. I didn't know, I knew a kid who experienced their parents. I didn't realize that it experienced in the way that she was explaining it to me. So they can, it can, the range of effects for a kid that sees this, but including they

will tell the story as though it happened to them. Okay. So all she's trying to figure out is body autonomy. And she doesn't have a picture of that because the most powerful, beautiful, wonderful, strong woman she's ever met had her body taken over by somebody else. Right. And so I think the greatest gift you can give her is teaching her body boundaries, meaning you modeling for her. Can I hug you? Can I high five you?

Right. And my daughter has never witnessed sexual abuse and I do this with her. Have you heard me tell that story here? Tons of times, yeah. It's a big deal that I reach in because her hugs make me feel better, right? They just do.

And she knows that, so she weaponizes them because she's six. And I ask, can I give you a hug? And she'll say, no, thank you. And then I will say, cool, and I'll move on with my day. Okay, so no man, no father-in-law. That's when you get between him and your daughter. And you say, he does, she does not have to hug you.

In fact, she will not hug you anymore because you don't have a right to her body Okay I feel good about that I feel strong about that Yeah Or like the mama The mama bearing me just like

Yes Yes And if he says I have Then you don't have access to my child anymore Bye Right Bye

You just don't Like I don't I don't need you in my life In fact you're more of a access to my child anymore. Bye. Right. Bye. You just don't. Like, I don't need you in my life. In fact, you're more of a burden to my family than not. Right? So do you have like a, man, I feel like I'm interrupting you and just answering because I have a visceral response to this too. And I know you live it. I know.

Tell me how I can help. Is there a specific situation I can help you with? Um, so, oh, I so intended on making this completely 100% about her, and I felt selfish turning it back on me a little bit. Hey, listen, listen. Anything to do with your kid's well-being starts with mom, starts with dad. I know. Okay, so don't feel a second of guilt. You getting well is a great gift you'd give your daughter. Okay.

So just a tiny bit more, just a tiny bit more backstory. Um, I've been in therapy on and off for 20 years for depression, anxiety, eating disorders, PTSD. I was abused when I was eight, assaulted at 19, raped at 21. So I have a, what you would call a rich backstory, a rich history. I went to college to be a psychology. I went to college for psychology. I would not call this a rich backstory. I would call this a devastating set of, like a devastating

traumatic story, right? But I also understand you've got to smile to walk through days sometimes, so, okay. So, I've been in therapy now for the last two and a half years. I started before my marriage even overthinking that I was the problem. Right. How do I help her continue to process through all this abuse when it is triggering for me every single day?

Yeah. It may be a moment where you need to go do an intensive. Or you both go do an intensive. Yeah. Because you need to pause. If you can afford it, you need to pause. Because if the abuse started in your life when you were eight, then your body looks at her and remembers that and starts sounding the alarms, right?

It's a very common response there. And her tension, she feeds off your tension. And I know that puts a ton of responsibility on you, but she feeds off that and then tries to

solve it. And right now she's solving it with control and with justice and with violence and with sass and humor too. Right. Which is probably how you probably solve a lot of the problems in similar ways. You're funny, you're silly,

you're all that. And you can, mama bear can come out too. Right. So I think whether it's an intensive or you can model what getting well looks like. Right. And if that means you have to find somebody that you highly, highly trust that's not related to this knuckleheaded family and go for 30 days and get well at an intensive or do a couple of weekends in a row, modeling for like daddy hurt mommy and when i was a little girl other people hurt mommy too and mommy's gonna go get well because mommy's worth being loved and mommy's

worth being safe and mommy's gonna learn some things that can help you be safe too yeah see what i'm saying and here's here's where kids pick things up. So somebody, let's say, I'm just going to make somebody up, okay? So let's say a stranger wearing, I don't know, with a mustache was one of the people who abused you as a kid. Like your dad's friend who had a mustache. And you happen to find yourself at a Target with your daughter and some dude with a mustache reminds your body. Your daughter will pick up on you almost imperceptibly squeezing her hand a little bit tighter. Right. Her body knows we're not okay.

Everybody tints up, everybody gets smaller, everybody disappear, right? And we're going to get to this next aisle. So that's the level here. And when I say doing the hard work and intensive, getting well, here's what we're looking for. Can I remember what happened without my body taking off on me? That's what we're looking to do. And when I say taking off on me without that trauma response happening. Okay? Okay. You've been in counseling a long time. What are you getting from counseling? At first it was, am I the problem in my marriage?

And then it was, okay, I'm going to pull the plug on my marriage and now I'm going to process through the divorce and all the abuse and everything. And it's been almost a year now that we've been divorced. my marriage and now I'm going to process through the divorce and all the abuse and everything. And it's been almost a year now that we've been divorced. So now I feel like I'm ready to start going into like EMDR or some kind of intensive. I was there at one point and then COVID happened and I couldn't do it. And then COVID just put a magnifying glass on his bipolar and that's when all the abuse started and I'm locked in a house with this guy. If you were my sister, I would tell you to start with EMDR. Okay.

It's a great place to start. And it may be that you end up on medication for a season. Great. It may be that you end up at a 30-day inpatient, hanging out with people, just doing intensive groups all day. Great. Wherever your healing journey takes you, let this thing stop with you.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Let it stop with you. And you're going to get beat up on it. You're going to have scars and you're worth the journey and you're worth the trip. Right? Yeah. One thing I want to tell you, okay?

And I want you to hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, okay? My new one. I already have it. Oh, you got it? I already read it. Okay, all right. It's amazing.

You did so good. All right, well, I was going to tell you, here's what happens next. And it's in there, but I'm going to tell you this, okay? Okay. Sexual abuse takes people's autonomy from them. Somebody else takes their body from them. They take their worth from them. And then somehow the shame mechanism flips it around as though it was your fault.

Yeah. Living inside a relationship with an abusive person does the same thing sometimes living with untreated bipolar does the same thing and so here's what i want you to be sometimes and it's going to sound awful i don't want to equate the two but it could be very similar 20 years in counseling where you go every week or every other we and just talk about your problem, over time, it slowly lets the air out of your power, your strength. When somebody sexually abused you, they take your power from you.

They take your strength. When you are in the house locked up with a tiger who has bipolar, who refuses to do the work that it takes to get well, it takes your power from you. And so moving forward, I don't want you to go to counseling that it takes to get well. It takes your power from you. And so moving forward, I don't want you to go to counseling anymore just to talk about stuff.

I want you to go to counseling to form a connection so that you can begin to heal and get your power back. Okay? Yeah. So the journey here is reclaiming your strength. And part of reclaiming strength is learning trust.

It's learning how to control your breathing. It's learning how to say no. When some man says, you have to give me a hug to your daughter, you get between them and smile real big and say, you leave my house. And your heart rate never even gets up. It doesn't even spike on you. That's how in control you are right listen here's the other side of it you're so strong you can just lay down

and go to sleep at night no meds no netflix no instagram you just go to sleep right and you sleep all night and somebody texts you and you don't even feel like looking you see what i'm saying like this is about getting grace's power back. Okay. And what you're going to find real quick, real quick, you are so much stronger than you think. Holy smokes,

dude, you are so much stronger than you think. And you've got so much more power than you think. And it's, it's less about, I got to like, there is some weightlifting you got to do. and there's some new skills you got to learn. But this is more about somebody going into a barn and there's a tarp over something and they rip that tarp back and there's a Ferrari under there that is brand

stinking new. And that's you. And so what we're going to do over the next few months is you're going to tell your therapist, I'm ready to start healing. We spent a year building relationship and rapport. Great. We are about healing now. And I'm going to do whatever it takes. And I'm going to get control of my body. I'm going to get my strength and my power back.

And if the therapist is worth their salt, they're going to say, all right. And they're going to stand up and rip that tarp off and show you a mirror that you're a Ferrari ready to rock and roll. So proud of you. You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. And by the way, your daughter needs that level of strength too. Okay. Your daughter needs that level of strength too. So continue to get her the help and care that she needs. And man, teach her how important her words are when it comes to who's in control of her body. Man, she's lucky to have you. Let's go get well. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. Let's go to David in Charlotte. What's up, David? Hey, Dr. John, how are you?

I'm partying, man. What about you? I'm doing good. Hey, listen, I need Hey, Dr. John. How are you? I'm partying, man. What about you? I'm doing good. Hey, listen, I need some help with my marriage. You have come to the right guy. What's up? All right. So here's the deal. I've been married for about 13 years.

My wife and I have two beautiful daughters, ages 13 and 8. And in January, my wife had surprised me by moving out of the house. Whoa, why? Well, that's the thing. She just, you know, the disagreement, it stemmed from our finances and I think she had a little bit of a spending issue and when she moved out in January, she was in debt, approximately $30,000 in credit card debt.

And we can never get this spending issue that she has under control. And it just kept snowballing, and it kept getting worse. And then it led to communication issues, misunderstandings, and a lot of hurt feelings between the two of us. And eventually we kind of just, you know, we just stopped talking. We stopped communicating. And next thing I know, she sent me a text in January saying, you know, I'm, I'm ending this marriage. I'm moving out of the house. And, um, and, and that was that. So, uh, fast forward to just, just before she, she moved out maybe like a week or two before she moved out, my, my older daughter had found an inappropriate

conversation in her phone. Basically she was sexting with another man, another married man. So, um, you know, the next morning, I believe it was the next morning. My, my daughter had told me when I gave her a ride to school, my daughter told me what she found. And, you know, of course I was, I was really hurt. And, um, eventually I went in, I went into my wife's phone and I found it a couple of days later, she had, she left her phone on the counter and I was able to get into my wife's phone, and I found it. A couple days later, she left her phone on the counter, and I was able to get into my wife's phone, and I found it. I was able to take some pictures and some videos to see what was going on, so I confirmed what my daughter had found in her phone. After that, she moved out in January, and ever since she moved out, she's been very, very distant. And she tried to take me to court to take custody of the kids.

And so we went to court, and she ended up losing in court. So I have custody of the kids here at the house. So your first question to me is you want to help with your marriage. Is your marriage over? Has she filed for divorce? I believe so. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like she moved out

and then she tried to take you to court. Are you all still legally married or has she filed for divorce? Well, I don't think we can legally separate until next January. Wow. And then after, I think because we have to be living apart for a year,

and then I think everything finalizes after that year. I've never heard that in my life. Did y'all get attorneys, like a divorce attorney? Yes. Yep. Okay. And they said, you just got to sit on this for a year? Right, right.

And that's exactly it because, you know, I wasn't physically abusing her. I wasn't emotionally abusing her. I wasn't yelling at her. And, you know, basically the last year of our relationship, she wasn't around in the evenings to help out with the girls. You know, she started working out and developed this insane, you know, workout habit that she's been at the gym. Okay, hold on, hold on. Constantly during the week. All right, all right, all right.

Hopefully somebody has told you this, and if they haven't, shame on them, okay? What you are describing to me is very, very clear. Your wife did not like the life she had found herself in. And it's super common to have kids in the age ranges you're in, and somebody look in the mirror and say, this can't be all there is for me. And then they go lose a ton of weight and they go work out like crazy. And then they start cheating. And then they fantasize about a new existence and they think it's just going to be simple. I'm just going to leave and then I'll get all my kids when I want, but not when I don't want. And then I'm going to have this great body and this new sexual partner.

And then life's going to go on great. And my bank account is going to be exactly how it was, all that. And so somebody, it sounds like she's been cheating on you for a while, man. And it sounds like she's been out of this marriage for a while. This isn't a question about, I can't tell if you are having a trouble facing reality or if you have, she has told you, no, I think I'm coming back. Or you have a fantasy about her coming back. Where are you? Because this isn't help with your marriage.

This is you coming to terms with your wife has left you. And what is life going to look like now? Correct. Right. Right. And I think you hit it on the head and I think it's all the above. I love her very much. And, you know, um, it's hard to see her go. And okay. So listen, listen, I'm having a hard, she's been gone for a year. Been gone for a year. And now listen, and here's know, I'm having a hard time. She's been gone for a year. Been gone for a year. And now listen, and here's what's really crappy about this. She's probably been gone emotionally for two years, if not more. Right, right.

And so when she finally left, that was the end for her, and that was just the beginning for you. Correct, right. And so there is, it feels like a gap between the two of you. There's a clear gap. She, your wife left you. Okay. But there's a gap that feels bigger than the grand Canyon because you're like, Oh, Oh, this is serious. Let's talk about this. And in her head, no, I just put a period at the end of that sentence. It's over. Correct. Right. And then there's all the legal rigmarole, which the lawyers get paid the longer it goes on. And I have utmost, I'm one of the few people in the world. I defend lawyers to the end of the earth because I think that they

play an important role. I also think that they get paid to keep things going. Yeah. And so if you haven't already, I would find an attorney that says, I need this to be over as soon as possible, and I'm not interested in waiting a calendar year. You are prolonging your own agony and misery, and you are choosing to not grieve. You see what I'm saying? Exactly. Let me tell you, this is going to be hard, but I'm about to say it. I'm just telling you the truth. You're dragging your daughters through this.

And you still call her my wife and you still call her mom and you still call her. Yeah, but your mother, dude, your wife walked out on y'all. You're one of those guys now. And the question is, what kind of life are you going to build for you and for your daughters out of the ashes of what just happened? Right. And that starts with you facing reality. Is that fair? And you hear me say this as someone who loves you, not someone who's like talking crap at you, right?

You hear what I'm saying? I'm not trying to be a jerk. I'm just trying to say, hey, man, look, right? This is me having a conversation with somebody in the hospital when I have to be the one that says, hey, there is no brain activity. Your partner is dead. It's time to let go. They're like, no, no, no. That's me telling you this. It sounds like

this thing's over. Am I out to lunch? Am I wrong? Right. No, you're right on the money. Let me answer this. This is another one of my questions. If we were to back up, we had stopped communicating because of the money. Let me ask you this. This is another one of my questions. So, you know, if, if, if we were to back up, you know, we had stopped communicating, you know, because of the spending. So my question to you is, you know, if she's in that much credit card debt and she just

doesn't stop spending, do I, should I have let her continue to spend in order for her to be happy to try and hopefully, you know, save the marriage if I knew this was going to be the case? Or should I have put my foot down sooner and say, hey, enough is enough? And if at that point she wasn't willing to stop spending money. The way you're asking that question tells me that there was some major dysfunction in your marriage. Because you're not her dad. And I put my foot down with my children. I don't put my foot down with my children. I don't put my foot down with my wife

because my wife and I work our butts off months in advance to be on the same page about just about everything. And when we get off the same page, we circle back and say, not, hey, this particular thing, like, so I'm the guy in my house. I'll just spend money.

Like, I'm an idiot, right? I'm a, what do you call it? A free spirit. That's what my friend Rachel calls it. I see a thing, I work real hard, and I just want guy in my house. I'll just spend money. Like I'm an idiot, right? I'm a, what do you call it? A free spirit. That's what my friend Rachel calls it. I see a thing. I work real hard. I just want to go get it. When I do that, my wife doesn't come at me and say, I can't believe you spent money.

That's not how she asks me. She said, hey, you and I've got goals that we all agreed on. And something must be going on in your life for you to violate these goals what's going on man because you don't seem like you're okay right that's different than you can't do this because she's not my mom she's my she is part of me the way you refer to your wife as she's running up her money you've got a you've got a pronoun issue in your marriage. That's y'all's money because y'all are all, right? You see what I'm saying? So something got separated. It might have been the way you always had this thing, or maybe your wife was

tired of you acting like her father, or maybe she kept acting like a child and you were left to try to clean up the, I don't know what the challenge was But we got to a place where so to answer your question directly if I had that exact same situation in our house The way I would have it the conversation I would have is Hey to my wife You and I agreed we want to get out of debt You and I agreed we don't want to have a house payment as crazy as that is You and I agreed we're going to drive crummy cars until we pay off our house and get our kids fully funded for college so that they're going to have less worries than we did.

We've agreed on these things. And your actions are not in alignment with what we agreed. A, are we okay? But here's the thing. She thinks life is too short to save at all. So she won't even, I mean, we're always negative in the account. So A, she's very immature, very, very immature. And B, around here we call it financial infidelity.

She was cheating on you with money. It's a power play. Exactly. It's financial abuse, okay? And I would treat the infidelity as such. Okay. Life, trust me, life's too long to not save. It's way too long to not save, right?

We have to, it's just immaturity. But here's the thing. It is a symptom of the immaturity. It's not the thing to be solved. What's to be solved is a decision to act like an adult. And yes, at some point, if you were married to somebody and they are draining your account and they were putting your family at risk and they are cheating on you with their money, you have to make a decision for the safety of your children, the safety of you, the safety of, like this becomes abuse. It becomes infidelity. And I've said this before on the show. I think infidelity is a much bigger conversation than who puts what body part where and with who.

Infidelity is, are we on the same page? We agreed to be this and you opted out, right? And now we're going to have a harder conversation. Cheating is a much bigger picture than making out with somebody. And so all I have to say is this money is a symptom of a much bigger issue. Bottom line, your wife has left. And I'm literally, I can hear it on you. You need to spend some time there. Not with, well, my marriage, she's gone.

She's been gone for a year. And now it's about grieving this thing, sitting in this thing, and then what happens next? Hang on the line. Jenna's gonna send you a copy of my new book. I want you to read it straight through, okay? I want you to read it straight through because the back half of that book is,

what do we do now? And I want you to read it straight through because the back half of that book is what do we do now and I want you to go find a counselor or a couple of buddies that aren't going to be like yeah bro but they're going to listen to you as you say the words my wife has left me and my marriage is over and I don't know what to do next okay and I want you to rally your daughters

up and say hey I'm coming to terms with mom has left I want you to call an attorney and say I need this faster than a year And maybe that's the law in North Carolina. I don't know. Good God. It's crazy. I can't imagine that is. But I'm sure somebody can write me in and let me know what the deal is. But anyway, sorry, man. Sorry. Only the light here I can offer you is there's healing on the back end of this. Okay. There's healing on the other side, but you're gonna have to walk through it.

We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work.

We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest,

authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to, let's try Caitlin in Fresno, California. What's up, Caitlin?

Hey, Dr. John. I need help kind of processing through the recent school shooting in Texas. Ah, yeah. Yeah, I kind of do too. Can we do that together? Yeah, absolutely. So I want to give you a little background before we go into it because it'll help you understand where I'm coming from. I'm a current teacher in an elementary school.

And before I was a teacher, I was in emergency services for about nine years. And I'm currently trying to leave and go back into emergency services more on the law enforcement side. So I have a lot rattling around in my brain regarding both sides of that shooting. Yeah. Man. So you told me about the professional stuff. Mm-hmm. You've been a teacher in a classroom.

Mm-hmm. And you've played that scenario out in your head, right? Yes. Almost every week. Yes. You've also been EMS, and you've shown up, not to a scene that bad, but you've shown up to some stuff, right? Right.

So when they say bodies or children, you have a different visceral feeling than most, because most of us- It's in my gut. That's right. Because you've shown up on a scene when a child hasn't made it, right? Yes, yes. And you've watched people

that it's a different kind of cry. Nothing comes out. It's almost like a throw-up cry at the same time. You've seen parents do that, right? Yes. Yes. So what makes you... So I tell you that to tell you, I want you to honor your body

in this because you've seen this stuff. This is a part of you. This is different. This is not an academic exercise or just some stuff you saw or learned. This is for real. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. Why do you want to go be a cop? I feel like I really miss parts of the tangible elements that I had at EMS. I know in the school system we are helping all these kids, but I miss the tangibility and the problem-solving components of that world

and of my skill set. So, one, I don't know how... I don't know how you came into the world, but I wish more people had a spirit of... you just are put on earth to serve, right? I believe so, yes. So great, man. So great.

You're amazing. All right. So what do you, this is going to sound awful, but I process what happened in Uvalde differently with different groups. With my law enforcement friends, it's guttural because they see what appears to be catastrophic screw-ups, right? You see that too? Yes. So these are my buddies who are in badge and they go, what are you doing? And they feel the heat of everybody in the world blaming police for everything. And here they are getting back in the car and going back on patrol again today. Right? And they also know that you can train all day, seven days to

Sunday when you are in a building where bullets are flying and there are children, that everything is different than you think it's going to be. I've been in a building full of students during an active shooter. I've been there. It's different than we trained. It's the same, but it's different in your body. You know what I'm saying? You've been there. So I also am a parent of a six-year-old. And so I grieve that with parents differently. I'm also a Texan who has guns. And I also have common sense and I'm not a moron, right? So it's one of those across the board,

like I'm grieving this in 50 different ways and I'm trying to solve it tomorrow for my community in 50 different ways, right? So it's, it's a, it's one of those across the board spec, like I'm grieving this in 50 different ways and I'm trying to solve it tomorrow for my community in 50 different ways. Right? So I tell you all those things to say, you have permission on this show to grieve it across the board, but I want you to speak into it. Like, how can I help you with what you, which particular thing you're struggling with? I think because of both sides of that, I kind of feel like I know too much. And in the sense of like, a lot of teachers can kind of go around and say they don't know what they don't know in regards to safety and tactical kind of things. And I almost know just enough to know too much to know that we are, I mean, for lack of better terms, kind of sitting ducks in these classrooms in a lot of ways. And so I'm having a hard time kind of processing that.

And it's almost to a point where I'm finding myself having a hard time respecting my colleagues and that lack of that chain of command. And I don't know if they would know what to do, like, at all. Let me tell you, no. Exactly. That's not their job. No, right, exactly. I'm having a hard time with that part of it.

So, two things you can do with that. Number one is you can feel that, okay? Your feelings are right. Like, you are trained as an EMS person or as a law enforcement person to walk into a room or a situation and say, this is not safe, this is not safe. This is not safe. This scene is not secure, right? That's how you're trained to walk into a room and scan the room. You're trained as a teacher that when people lack insight or knowledge into a certain thing, that your job as a teacher is to help bridge that gap. And so feeling that and understanding is,

this is why things like 9-11, this is why things like COVID, this is why things like these shootings are so unmooring, is that we live with a certain level of, ah, it's all going to be all right. And when you spend time with military folks, you spend time with first responders, they go, yeah, but it might not be

because they've seen it, right? And that was the joke with my old man. He was a homicide detective. It was always 100% of his day was dealing with things that never happen. Nobody gets hacked up with a hatchet, but on Tuesday they did. And that's where he spent most of his day, right? And nobody ever gets in a 17 car pile up except on Wednesday, and that's where he spent all of his day. So as a police officer, you are trained to walk into situations that no one ever sees, and you're trained to walk in and try to make sense of it. And as a teacher, you teach people. And so a way you can make – here's the words. How am I going to make meaning of these feelings?

Okay? Okay. I'm going to offer a class. Any teacher who wants in on it, I'm going to make meaning of these feelings? Okay? Okay. I'm going to offer a class. Any teacher who wants in on it, I'm going to teach you. Here's the right way to do that. Hey, principal, I'm willing to. I've got a background in this. I'm willing to teach the folks here about this.

I'm willing to hold a small group. I'll get coffee and donuts and have all the teachers who want to show up and just a debrief. Like a CIS, like a critical incident, stress management, like a debrief. How are all y'all's teachers?

Everybody okay? This was what happens is scary. And we all realized we're pretty freaking vulnerable in here. You see what I'm saying? Like, how am I going to make, what am I going to do? How am I going to make meaning of this?

And then be very, be very graceful with the teachers, the people who cannot wrap their head around it. Right? It's one of the arguments that I hear. Like, we just need to arm all the teachers. No. A, you work with teachers. No, you don't.

No. But B, that's not. You can't even pull up a phone to take a picture of a celebrity. Do you think you're going to be able to do that in a classroom? There you go. Right. And so that's a political thing, right? But the idea is some people cannot put their head there.

They can't go there. I'm going to be graceful with them, right? That's not – I'm not going to beat them up for it. I'm not going to be like, you don't know what's coming. That's not helpful. That's just going to shut them down further, right? Yeah. Ultimately, the question is do you want to stay a teacher or do you want to go to law enforcement?

And what role of service do you want to be a part of? And here's what I'll tell you. There are, and you know this, idiot teachers. I've worked with them. I was one, actually. There are teachers who aren't great. There are teachers who are incredible. There are going to be police officers who are remarkable.

And they spend every minute of their life wanting to help and love and serve their communities. And there's going to be idiots who screw it up. And the goal as a police is get those folks out and to continue to support and honor and love those who are really trying to do the best they can with what they got. Does that make sense? So all I have to say is because you're a servant, there's not going to be an arena you go into where it's going to be perfect and that it's going to be free from tons of outside armchair quarterbacks. And it's for you. You got to always remember

why you're doing this in the first place. Yeah, I kind of have to ground myself in that so that it doesn't get lost. Yeah. Hey, nothing else. Just remember, I know enough to know that in the middle of the night

if something goes down I'm going to call 911. Yes. You know what I mean? And you will be the person who shows up for me and my little kids and my wife

and my dogs and my chickens except you can let the chickens go. They're fine. They drive me crazy. Right? You hear what I'm saying? Like remember me.

Remember my family. Remember my little kids. When the news is crazy or when you see some police officer do some stupid racist idiot thing, that's not everybody. It's not most everybody. And let's remember the family on the other end of that phone. Does that make sense? It does, yeah. I don't know if that's helpful or not. I feel like I've just been talking a lot. Like, hey, let's process this together, and I'm going to talk for 10 minutes without breathing, right? Okay, I just threw a lot at you. How are you?

I'm good. I think I also, I like the idea of the class, and I think I need to kind of figure out a way to also bridge it up to, like, the district office level, too, in terms of, like, physical things that we can do around the school. So a great thing you can do is to pilot it.

Pilot's the word, like pilot it, practice it. Give it a shot. And if it goes well with five or six teachers in your little grade unit, then maybe the principal lets you do it at your campus. And then if that goes well, then you and your principal approach the region or the school district.

And you see what I'm saying? So don't go, don't be like, oh, I've got a program. Man, they're getting bombarded with those kind of things. But start with the human part. Hey, I know five teachers around me. They're kind of freaked out.

We're going to get coffee in the evening. We're going to go to Sonic, get some drink, and we're just going to sit in a circle and say, how are you? And how are you? And how are you? Because a lot of teachers

are replaying this stuff in their head and they're terrified because they've got nobody to talk to about it. Yeah. And you could be a and you can think one way and yeah i i think i just see it differently and but i also have that humanity and compassion side of the teacher and so that's right that's right the world is better because you're in it caitlin i'm really grateful for you thank you dr john so two things remember your'm really grateful for you. Thank you, Dr. John. So two things. Remember, your feelings are real and you get to have them.

And then the question we always want to get to is, how am I going to make meaning of this? What do I do next? Right? Okay. And man, as being able to be a teacher and law enforcement and such important shout outs to our law enforcement folks, such important shout outs to our teachers and such everybody grieving from all over this mess. And to my brothers and sisters who are police officers with kids who go to school,

um, the ones I've talked to, this has been mess, man, weeping and sadness. And I can't believe that they just sat in the hallway for all those things and the tactical questions and the kid questions and the follow-up questions. All of it, man.

As a country, we've got to grieve. And we've had a bunch of follow-up. Just a mess, man. What a mess. Be like Caitlin. Find places in your community where you can serve. Now where you can throw fits and throw water balloons and throw rocks and throw bricks and scream. Where you can actually sit down with people and serve. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, get some rest. Get the healing that you need. Own reality.

Own reality. And man, it's okay to really, really love what you do, your community, your professional groups, and to be really frustrated when they mess up and to want to be a part of healing or to hold judgment when you think they've messed up. I'm going to hold on because it's not my place to judge just yet. I'm not going to get caught up in the political. I'm going to go serve. It's a heavy show today, but it also has a lot of lessons for moving forward. So we wrap it up, man. This great Kate Bush song. Song is called Running Up That Hill, A Deal With God. And it goes like this.

If only I could, I'd be running up that hill. It doesn't hurt me. Do you wanna know how it feels? Do you wanna know that it doesn't hurt me? Do you wanna hear about the deal that I'm making? Yeah, it's you and me. And if only I could, I'd make a deal with God and I'd get him to swap our places, be running up that road, be running up that hill, be running up. And if only I could, I'd make a deal with God and I'd get him to swap our places,

be running up that road, be running up that hill, be running up that building if only I could. Is there so much hate for the ones we love? Tell me. We both matter, don't we? Yes, it's you and me. It's you and me. We'll see you soon. Coming up on the next episode. Pretty simple question.

Luckily for you, it's not a dark topic. Or is it? My son is asking a lot of questions about my dad. And my husband and I don't know how to answer his questions about his death in an age-appropriate way. The truth about his death is really heavy that most adults have a really hard time grasping. How we doing? I'm doing okay. Oh, so not good at all.

Not good at all, huh? Well, I overheard my husband's friends and him making fun of me. She insisted on asking him if he felt like he had downgraded on his ex.

Oh, jeez. Yeah, who was, yeah, light-skinned and slim. And he said, maybe. Oh, gosh! Wait, hold on, hold on. He told her?