My Fiancé Hid $100K in Debt from Me
00:00So I recently got engaged the summer.We've been living together for a couple of years before this.And every time I've asked him to sit down with the budget,he just kind of brushes me off.Like, no, we're fine.We're good.We're good.How bad is it?
00:18How much is he out?It's well over $100,000.Okay.Well over.What's going on?what's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney's show. So glad that you're with us.Pull up a seat, grab some nachos, grab something to eat, and we're going to figure out what'sthe next right move when it comes to your marriage, to your relationships, to your friendships,
00:46to your holiday travels, to your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in yourlife. For two decades, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next rightmove. And that's what we're going to do today.all right let's talk about your marriage right now we have february and october weekends on sale for the money in marriagegetaway it's the best marriage retreat on the planet tickets start at 749 bucks a couple get yours at ramsysolutionsdot com slash getaway let's go out to bismarck north dakota and talk to rene hey rene what's going onhi how are you um so i um recently got engaged this summer um we've been living together for a coupleyears before this and um every time i've asked him to sit down with the budget he just kind of
01:43brushes me off like no we're fine we're good we're good um we have a couple of credit cards thatI am a co-signer on and I started noticing my credit score dip.Let me pause right there.Let me back all the way out of this.So some people or a lot of people listening to the show don't know that I also co-hostanother show, the Ramsey show where it's a finance show.We're talking about money.Right.
02:15And so you're asking questions about let's get beneath the budget part.been living with a guy for two years, and you've been asking him money questions, which arereally safety questions, provider questions. Like, are we on the same team questions, right?Yes. Okay. And y'all took out a couple of credit cards that together, so in a couple ofinstances, you've combined finances. Yes. But after living together for two years, he won't tell youwhat he makes? No, I know what he makes. Okay. He won't tell you what he owes? Yeah. Okay.Okay. Okay. All right. So can I ask you a hard question? Yes.Why is it taking two years for you to trust yourself?
02:59Trust myself. I am actually in trauma therapy. Okay.Not a good life. Okay. A lot of bad situations. Recently within like the last 10, 11 years, I've been working on myself.Um, I have three daughters from a previous relationship. Um, I, um, I, um, how bad? How bad is it? How much is he?Oh, it's, it's well over a hundred thousand dollars. Okay. Well over. And what's the spending? Is itstudent loans or is it addictive stuff? Is it gambling? Oh, I'm, I am very sure it's addictive.stuff. He gets packages at the house all the time, you know, from different stores, you know,new clothes, golf stuff, soccer stuff. So spending addictions? Yes. Okay. Yes. He tried to frame itas giving us the life that he thinks that we deserve, you know, because he really wants to be there,
04:12to step up and be there for me and my children. He has two other children of his own that livewith their mom, which is great.I'm really happy that that's how he feels,but I can't accept that as an answerbecause I know that that's not the deep reason.Okay.Well, let's do this.I want you to, part of trauma recovery
04:41is owning what I'm going to do next.Yes.Right?And so I want to own,In this particular situation, I have let it go on for two years.And I'm not going to let it go on any longer.Yes.The deception and the dishonesty and the fantasy life, which is we're just going to ignore the realities of math.
05:08And I'm going to continue just to borrow money, buy money, I mean, buy whatever I want,or whatever I think is going to make one of these kids feel good in the moment.And regardless of whether I have that money or not.yes but i also hear in your questionlet me say it this wayrarely does someone who is completely avoiding realityin one area of their life not doing that in other areas of their lifeso where are there deeper issues of trust fracture in this relationship
05:37um heis an alcoholic okay um he recently went to treatment umand he's, I mean, he has been working on himself as far as that goes, but I don't think thathe's getting to the deep, deep reasons of why he feels the need to do, he's a people pleaser,100% of people pleaser.He wants to make sure people feel good all the time.And this is something that I have asked him to work on in therapy so that, you know,Like I've said, be selfish, be, you know, work on you.
06:19You don't have to worry about the rest of us.We'll take care of us.You need to work on you.So you're the best possible version of yourself for us.But I just don't think that he's getting it.Well, and I think this is one of the cancers of the, well, I would call a great landmark.I'm a part of this community.The mental health awareness that has happened over the last.
06:4425 to 50 years.Yeah.I think it's awesome,but this is one of the cancers,which is going to figure out why I'm a people pleaser,going to figure out why I'm so desperatethat everybody around me be happydoesn't excuse the fact that he's lied to your face for two years.
07:04Yes,I agree with that.It doesn't excuse the fact that he is spending your familyinto a quagmire that will take a dad,decade or more to get out of.Yes.And so I need you to go get to the bottom of some of your mental and emotional healthchallenges.
07:22It may or may not be a quote unquote addictive, an addiction of some sort or some sortof addictive disorder.But as for this house, we don't borrow money.As for this house, I want to pull all the credit reports, all three of mine, all threeof yours, all of my three kids to make sure you haven't pulled anything else up, becauseI do not trust you.yeah and by association i lost trust in myself in my own gut feeling and i'm not doing that anymorethat's part of my trauma recovery is i'm going to begin to trust my body when it says hey there's a
07:56problem over here yeah absolutely is that fair yeah and you you have to make not make peacebut you have to traffic in the reality that he might leave i thinkit might be me leaving before him.Okay.You might be like, oh, that'd be awesome.Like, man, if he loved it, that makes my life easier.At this point, he knows he has a lot of work to do.He knows he has a lot of work to do.
08:27I just don't know if he knows how to do it.Okay.That can't be your job because...That's okay.But what your job is, is making a very clear roadmap to trust and giving it to them.Okay.And he gets to decide whether he's going to follow it.Okay.
08:50And if he doesn't, then he's behaviors a language.He's saying, I don't want to be a part of this relationship.Okay.But you have to be clear about here's what, and I don't even want to say need.Here's what I want for my house, for me, for my, any future relationship I'm going to be in, any future marriage I'm going to be a part.of. Here's what I want. I want to be with somebody who understands the realities of math,however uncomfortable they may be. I want to be with somebody who, if there's an expenseover $100 or $500, that we run it by each other first, that we have a budget for our money
09:36so we have control, some sort of boundaries that we both agree to live within. Because a budgetit just sets the priorities of what you think is important in your lives.Okay.I like that.Is that fair?It should be the most terrifying and the most empowering exercise you've been a part of.You for the first time looking in the mirror and saying this is what I want,for me in my house. This is what this is going to look like. I hope you'll be a part of it with
10:14me. I think he'll be really receptive to that as well. Okay. Because here's what I can also imaginein his world. You doing a lot of trauma work, which is both cathartic and scary and terrifying, right?It's raw. Yes. And you saying things like you need to do your work and you've got a lot of workto do and you need to go talk to a therapist about this. And I think you're an addict.And I think you're, and that might be you just yelling at him in Spanish for all.He doesn't know what that means.Right.And so you giving him a map that says, regardless of how uncomfortable you feel, regardless of how tired you are,
10:59we will sit down on Sunday nights and go over the budget together for the upcoming week and a calendar.If you come home to this house and you've been drinking, you can't stay here.Mm-hmm.like you set those you set those boundaries uh he's the one who violated the trust in my worldi call it financial infidelity yes he cheated on you with that he cheated on you with moneyand he severed your attachment to safety and let's take ownership you allowed it to happen for twoyears yes and so cool i i allowed this and that's often a great way to enter into theseconversations by using an i statement first i allowed this i asked you for budget numbers and you
11:41said it was all fine, and I didn't follow up. That's on me. I'm taking 100% responsibility,and that stops today.How's that sound? I like it. It sounds good.The first thing I want you to do is have everybody pull a credit report.Okay. And you can pull all three of them. I want you to have some confidence into how bad this thing really is.why does that scare you just because what if there's more okay almost every time these kind ofconversations come out in spurts so has the number grown the more you've dug in um yeah sincethe first conversation you know it was just he gave me a little bit and then um the next conversation
12:39I was like, wait a minute, you have this out, though, too.And then he, you know, I know that he had another credit card out.And, you know, so it's just little by little.It just kind of opened up.I don't know if there is any more, but I almost wouldn't be surprised.Right.And that's what I want to solve.Your body's not going to feel safe until it knows.
13:05Okay.So cool.Let's pull all three credit reports.Let's look at it and circle it.we're going to get out of yellow pad and we're going to add it all up or an Excel sheet.We're going to add it all up.And are you able to see his direct deposit?No.
13:22Okay.Then you don't know how much money he makes.I haven't.He's shown me a couple of pay steps here and there.I know what job he has and I kind of know what's coming in.Okay.I want to transition from kinda.Okay.
13:38do I knowand the day y'all are marriedif you decide to do thatyou're going to have one checking accountso we're both working from the same placebut please don't do that if you're not marriedit makesuntangling that a nightmare
13:52yeahand the last thing I'm going to tell youcan I tell you one more thing?Yesif you're done have the courage to leaveyesand that is something I'm workingin in therapy
14:07is how I'm feeling about things and trusting my good.Okay.If you're done, be done.If part of you healing is having been done or at the least, say that the relationship wehad is officially over, I'm willing to build a new one if you are, and here's what I wantthat architectural and design to look like on this new building, this new marriage, this newrelationship. Right. And we're going to build it from the floor up and we'll try to work through it thatway. But it's just, I don't want you to go through this experience, have somebody start to work
14:47through this roadmap of trust that you've created and begin ticking things off growing. And thewhole time, you're like, yeah, but I'm still out. I'm still out. If you're out, have the courage to beout. There's no judgment either way. It's just you taking ownership of that. And again, I alwayswant to point back to trauma therapy does a couple of things one it allows your body to rememberwhat happened and not have your body take off and try to solve it as though it's happening in thepresent right but also trauma recovery is about trusting yourself and being scared but going anywayin terms of making new relationships romantic intimate relationships friendships and it's also aboutautonomy being able to say the things here's what I want and here's what I'm going to demand because this is
15:33my life and asking somebody that you're going to marry what do you demand can we sit down andput all these things on the table and create a secret world together right and that's a long-termrelationship but appreciate the call i wish you the best is it's terrifying finding out your gut wasright all along it's terrifying to find out i ignored myself it's terrifying to find out hey you owe 50grand you 100 great you 150 000 who it's scary and so i'm going to turn all the lights onenter the music off. We're going to pull credit reports. We're going to sit down and we'regoing to get some assurances here. And then we're going to choose to start trafficking from thatreality. And that can be a great place and that can be a scary place. Thanks for the call, Renee.
16:17When we come back, a woman asks how to break free from her social media addiction.I love the holidays. I love them. Holidays for my family include a ton of travel and a lot ofpeople coming and going and a lot of chaos. And with all of this chaos, that means a lot ofreally late nights and a lot of lost sleep. With all of this, it can be hard to wind down and actuallyget good sleep. Almost nothing feels better than coming home from being on the road and fallingasleep on my helix mattress. My whole family sleeps on helix mattresses, and we all lovecoming home to lay down. I even have a helix mattress in the guest room, and when people come overand crash at my house, especially during the holidays,
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19:23and go into the Apple store and download the Together app.It's my new app for married couples.It's awesome.Daily practices, one tiny step every single day.Behavior's a language.What's one thing I can do to begin to love you more and more and more?And I just left a big, long meeting about the things they're adding into this app.It's amazing.
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19:58All right, just go out to Tampa and talk to Nicole. Hey, Nicole, what's up?Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call.Of course. What's going on?Well, apologize. I'm nervous.Bring it.I'm a Gen Z, and I recently listened to your podcast with Carlos Whitaker, and I just read The Anxious Generation.And my question is, how do I break free from a social media?addiction when so much of my life and skill set revolves around technology.
20:32Ooh, great question.So you use the word addiction.Tell me about the word addiction.Yeah.It's probably something I probably wouldn't have considered before.But recently, I just kind of had a moment of, I,I don't even know how much timeI've wasted just scrolling
21:00on social mediaand justit's been interferingwith my everyday lifeeven to the pointlike at workand I brought up to my employerthat hey I need help
21:16okayso if I was to saydelete all your accounts todayand buy a flip phone by the end of the eveningwhat panics sets off inside your chestfunny because that is something I've considered getting for the last yearbut it's I think what's coming from that is I justI think I just would feel like I would get left behind
21:45what would you get left behindwhat would you get left behind um justI think a lot of it's community and just with, like, with my job, like I do social media as well with what I do, and I just feel like I probably won't be able to keep up.All right, let me break in there on two things.One, if, so I like to, when someone is struggling with any sort of addictive behavior, I like to start from a place.It's not always true, but I like to start from a place of what if this addictive behavior.works. What if it's actually helping you? And of course, like any good addiction, it will takeeverything from you. But it's serving a purpose. What is it protecting you from? And often social
22:41media has taken the place of real human connections, real friends, people I call and who call you.It's a great Xanax for loneliness.The second thing isI have a buddy who works in HVACor I've got another friend who's a rooferhas a roofing company.Every day he has a hammer and a drill.But it would be nuts for him to come home
23:12and sit at his couch going zizz-z-z with his drillor doing that at dinner time.And so it's okay to have a job where you do a thingunless that job becomes a moral crisis for you.know if I want to be a part of this system anymore. And I wrestle with that because I knowthe evils of social media and I've got a couple million followers. I get that too. But it's nota strange thing for me. In fact, it's important to me that I don't go home and try to be a counselorto my wife or to my kids. They need a dad. My wife needs a friend and a husband, right? So both of
23:49those things can be true. But if I ask you, what is social media protecting you from? Whatconstant scrolling when you get home, what is that protecting you from? How would you answer that?I think a lot of it's the loneliness thing. And I guess for more context, too, I've been workingremote and some hyper positions on or off since 2018. So right now I'm currently full-time remote aswell. Okay. Which is a cool, free to move about the country position, and it is devastatingly lonely.fair yeah yeah and so what if we approach this in two ways one how can i keep my work tools inmy toolkit for you for use at work and number two how can i solve the real challenge herewhich is how old are you 25 i'm 25 and i am profoundly lonely
24:54YeahAnd it's hard for me to sayI knowTo admit that I'm lonelyYeahI know it's a scaryfrustrating thing to beCan I ask you a hard question about loneliness
25:11YeahDo you think you're worth being friends with?Not reallyHmmRomanticallyDo you think you're worth somebody just watching you walk into a room and think, oh, my good God, she's beautiful, and grabbing you by the face and kissing you?I have that, thankfully.I have a husband.
25:37Okay.Does he, does, do you catch him side eye on you sometimes because he can't believe how lucky he is?Yes.So there's a deeper layer then, and I've been there too.Tell me about feeling lonely at a table with a guy that, you know, loves you?you?It's hard.Yeah.
25:59Because he does a lot to showlike he'll ask mehow can I best serve you todayand how can I love youand he shows up in really incredible ways.But you don't think you're worth being served.No.Where does that story come from?
26:23I thinkin some waysjust going back to growing upumlike II have three siblings andI saw howum
26:40like drugs and alcohol anddifferent lifestyleshow they chose those thingsand I chose social media and video games and thingsand that wasmy way to escape in some waybut I, I, um, I just always felt like the awkward kid, uh, and in some ways I still feelawkward and don't really, I don't, it just, it's, I just, I struggle with feeling like
27:14I fit in, in different environments.Okay.So I'll tell you the simple path forward.it's what I have.Here's the deal.I can't control it.I had a,I was up to 1 a.m. last night.
27:31I'm exhausted.I've been hunting a lot,which means I'm getting up really earlyand staying up really late.I'm traveling all over the country.And I've got like a weird thing where I'm toggling.I'm toggling between a leadership conferencethat I'm speaking multiple times at,
27:47a marriage book that I'm working on,live events that I'm doing out,big travel.So I've got a lot in last night I had a spin out.and the way I describe a spin out is I fell asleep on the couch like at 8 o'clock my wife got up and went to bed my son got up and went to bed I woke up about 10 and I just melted my soul on social media for 90 minutes I felt like crap I slept like crap I just did and I woke up this morning knowing I had to pay the piper right I still got to get up I got to be present with my kids I got to go to work and it's up to me to set boundaries totoday. And I carry the shame of, I can't believe I didn't just go to bed last night. My bodycould have used asleep. I didn't. So here I am today. The only thing I can affect is what I'mgoing to do today. And so I know those men and women who make the apps are better than me.
28:38They're better than me. Social media is a drug and I'm an addict. Fine. So I have a choiceto make. So I have it on two separate phones. I have my personal phone and I have social mediaon a phone that stays in my workback.And you can make that choice today.The second thing is, is what Annalimki, who is one of the greatest writers of our generation,she wrote a book called Dopamine Nation that I think everybody should read.But I want you to go check that book out.But commit to a 30-day fast.
29:16Okay.How do you, I don't want to do a fast.how do you do a fast whenlike during the workdayit's still something that's requiredit's thinking of it as a hammer or a drillnot as a portal to connectionbecause it's not got it got it
29:38it's a drillI build stuff in the morningsor in the afternoons greatthe other thing is catching yourselfwhen you grab it when you're boredwhen you grab it when you're lonelyyou grab it when your boss is rant and ravenand you're trying to avoid a Zoom meeting with your team,
29:56like you're going to catch yourself doing it,and it's not beating yourself up, and, oh, I'm the worst.It's like, oh, man, I did it again.And I'm going to click it back off.And here's the thing that most people don't get about addiction.The reason AA, it's got detractors fine,but the reason people find so much success in it is,it's not just telling somebody to not drink,
30:18but it's addressing one of the core issues,which is isolation, loneliness,and nobody sees me or knows me.And so if you do this fast,your body's going to be faced with the realitythat you're profoundly lonely.And so the way to be successful during this fast,you can white knuckle your way through it.
30:40You're tough and strong and you've got a great husband.You've got great support.You can do it.But you're going to grab,it's like not me not eating gummy candies for lent.Dude, the day of Easter,I go into a diabetic coma.bananas, right? Because I'm not dealing with the core issue. So for you, the path is I'm going to
30:58put something on the calendar every week where I leave my house. I'm going to put something on thecalendar every week for four weeks, for 30 days where people come to my house. Because that'sthe real problem. And when they walk in the door, I'm going to have a basket and say, everybody'sgot to put their phone in here. We're all going to play Candyland. What? We're going to playsome silly childhood game and we're going to be silly doing it.and I'll provide the tacos, you provide the drinks, and the whatever.We're just going to have a nuts and bolts thing, and two people may show up, five people may show up, nobody may show up.But I'm going to backfill the core issue and practice being awkward without this drug.
31:40I kind of a silly follow-up question on that, like, we recently moved cross-country and we moved back to his hometown.And I'm still working on building friends and community here.Are you working on building it?Are you thinking about it?I've been working on it.I haven't, I guess, sound my people yet.Cool.But what would you suggest?
32:15Just the same, just invite anyone?Go first and be weird.Okay.Those are the guiding things.go first and be weird. You'll never find your people unless you surround yourself with a bunch ofpeople and filter out not your people and your people.Here's the thing in my house. This just happened. I have a neighbor. His name's Craig. He's awesome.He's the best neighbor you could ever have in your life. He texted me a picture of a Halloween,
32:40a front yard Halloween party for Halloween night. And I was like, oh, that's cool. You want to hearsomething awesome? I snapped that picture. I screenshot it and sent it to my wife and said, hey, let's goto this thing in the neighborhood.My wife is the one who sent it.I didn't know I was having a Halloween front yard party at my own house, right?So it's, we're going to go first and we're going to be weird.And my wife, I guess, printed all flyers and sent the kids around and they put them on people's doors.And that's, I can tell you already that makes me feel awkward and exposed and I'm feeling it.
33:17And I'm going to go do it anyway because I know it's going to be awesome.And at least one of my neighbors was super hyped about it.Hear me say you're worth being friends with.And in those moments when you don't feel lovable,look over at that great husband you haveand at least choose to trust him over the storythat you're telling yourself.Let him carry some of that weight sometimes
33:44because that's what he signed up to dotill death do you part.I don't feel.feel lovable. That guy loves me. He doesn't lie to me. I'm going to trust him over my bodythat's sounding the alarm is trying to keep me safe. And if I get to a point where I continuallyloop back to, I don't feel lovable. I don't feel worth being friends with. I'm going to go see a counselor.I'm going to go see a professional therapist. I'm going to work through that because I need tochange that story because it's not true. And I'm going to get radical and take a 30-day fast
34:15from social media, period.And I'm going to feel all those uncomfortable feelingsI'm going to journal about.I'm going to write them down.I feel like I'm missing something.I'm going to write it down.I feel like I'm missing, and I want you to say,I feel like I'm missing what?
34:29I feel like I'm missing what.And then I'm going to backfill that with actual real people,with game night with my husband.With, hey, husband, buckle up.We're going to be making out a lotbecause I don't have anything else to do.I'm not going to be scrolling the night away.I'm actually going to get sleep
34:46I'm going to put a bedtime on hereI'm going to try to go to bedI might start exercisingI'm going to fill thisthis gap up of timeI've been scrolling awaywithpositive things
34:58and by the wayif you anyone elsefeeling shameespecially 25 year oldsI want you to know thisyour schoolthe adults in your lifewhen you were children
35:08failed youthey failed youthey gave you drugsin middle schoolthey gave you drugs in high schoolthey gave you drugs in collegeand they called themum educational technology
35:22they called them learning devicesthey called them mobile learning initiativesthey called themconnectivity they gave you drugsand now you're 25 and realizedI was high most of my childhoodand I missed out on how to make friendsokay cool now it's time to get sober
35:38you can't do anything about what they didbut you can choose to not keep using this drugwhich is called social mediaand I'm going to start doing real thingswith real people in the real world.It's your move, sister.Thank you for calling.I'm proud of you.
35:53At the end of this 30-day fast,I would love for you to call me backand let me know how it went,the good, the bad, and the ugly.That'd be a great follow-up call, Nicole.When we come back,a woman wonders how to handle a family relationshipwhen that family member won't forgive her
36:08for having an affair.All right, we are right in the heart.of hunting season and we're in the heart of the holiday grilling and cooking season. And I'm beyondthrilled to announce that Montana Knife Company has joined the Dr. John Deloney Show team. Everyone wholistens to this show knows that my son and I are big hunters and fishermen and that my wife isone of the best cooks on the planet. And for years, I've used one company for everyknife need that I have, Montana Knife Company. I've bought them for years with my own money.love them, and I'm so glad that they're now on our show.
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37:17They're proudly made in the USA, and I'm telling you, you will not be disappointed.Go to montananathcompany.combe.combe.combe.combe.All right, Atlanta, Georgia. Let's talk to Jennifer. What's up, Jennifer?Hi, Dr. John. How's it going?Yes, dandy. What's up?I don't ever say the word dandy. I don't even know why I said that. That was dumb.I'm doing great. How are you?Good. Thanks for taking my call. I really appreciate it.
37:48You got it. What's up?So I'm basically calling because I need some advice on how to handle a family relationship with my brother-in-law's wife.I had an affair a couple of years ago, and my husband and I have reconciled.We've stayed together, and I've made amends with most of the family, and we're actually on really great terms.uh she's the only one who there's still a strain um let it go let it go oh it's so hardbecause she acts like i don't exist and she ignores then let her me here's the thing the onlyperson the only and i sound like i'm making it simple it it's hard but it's simple the only personyou can control is you that's it and so choose to be a person who treats everybody
38:42with dignity and respectregardless ofif they give it back or not.Right.And if she doesn't want,if she wants to be a childand take her ball and go home,if she wants to every family
38:56get together,she wants to drag an elephantand sit it right in the middleof the living room,that's fine.I'm still going to ask you,hey, do you want anything to drinkwhen I'm going to the kitchen?
39:09No.Okay.Because all I can have, all I can, only thing I can do is just be the best, the best sister and all I can be.I can't make you like me.I can't make you tell the truth about me.I can't make you do anything.Mm-hmm.Yeah, I guess the practicality of it is the part that I'm struggling with because it definitely triggers my past, like, rejection issues and, like, my people-pleasing issues.
39:35Why does she get a vote?And, uh...I guess because we, the family gets together often.I know, but she has looked at you and said,I do not want a relationship with you.I'm going to use a past indiscretion on your partto every day make myself feel better.Like, I don't know, like if there's a person like that in the world,
40:07that's great, knock your lights out.You don't want to be friends with me.I'm not going to spend energy.Right.I guess where I struggle is when we are in the same household.And usually it's for multiple days because it's at big events.Like, I struggle personally with either completely ignoring them because I feel awkward or maybe trying too hard.So I don't know how to, like, practically interact with her when we're in the same room.
40:37All right.Can I be, can I ask hard, hard questions?Yes.Take me back to your affair, because I think there's a trend line here.Take me back to it.What happened?So, I have a history of stepping out sexually to meet my, like, deep needs and trauma.There was a lot of unprocessed things I didn't deal with, and I brought it into the marriage.
41:06And I fully take responsibility, but I know that.There were things in the marriage that triggered those things, and I didn't deal with it in a healthy way, so I decided to have the affair.But the biggest thing was just a deep lack of, like, emotional connection with my husband.And so I was seeking that elsewhere.Hold on.Define for me emotional connection.it's that deep feeling of like being known and being um just connected like on an intimate levelhe unfortunately he's a great guy like he really is but he struggles with deep being deep
41:50and being past surface level just because of its own trauma and and and and as a fellowtrauma survivoryeah we are terriblewith allowing ourselves to be seenin thoughbecause we did onceand it got us hurtfair
42:11yeahokayand soalmost alwaysthat's not trueI overstated thatoftenthere's a sense
42:26ofI need somebody out thereto make me feel okay inside of here.Yes, I can relate to that.I need somebody to make me feel alive.I need somebody to get my heart rate up.I need somebody to pretend for nine minutesthat you see me and know me.
42:53Okay.So I'm going to assumethat you've worked on that kind of stuff?You've worked on...I did a...Yeah, I did a program.I've been going to a therapist,so it's been a lot of hard, heart work.
43:08Yeah.All right, so now I want to take that similar trend lineand bring it into your in-law's houseover Thanksgiving.Strangely, you're walking into that doortrying to make all these people make you feel okayon the inside of your skin.And my suggestion to you is that's not their job.
43:39It's you asking not the need questionbecause I think that can be over-dramatized sometimes.I think you're asking, what do I want?And often the deeper question here is,I don't want to be around those people either.And that leads to a harder conversation with your husband,which is, is there a possibility we could do Thanksgiving differently this year?Hmm.
44:09I want to, for one year at least, have a Thanksgiving or a Christmas or I cannot wait to walk in the front door wherever it is we're going.Not, I want to walk in hoping that I can sing and dance that everybody,will like me oh gosh i don't think that person just cut their eyes oh gosh they're not i not feelweird everybody's thinking about the affair of the affair of the affair they're not they're thinkingabout the mashed potatoes and whatever but there's one person that doesn't like you and decides toact like i'm four-year-old about it and ignores you right you see what i'm saying it's thisoutsourcing of responsibility to somebody else make me feel a little bit more alive and okay and atpeace in my own skin so what is your suggestion for continually growing
44:53in, like, the worst aspects of it.You write that woman who was about to gofor the very first affair, write her a letteras she was getting into the carto go meet with somebodyand her husband was at home.And that woman whose heart was racing100 miles an hour and kind of didn't black out
45:20but it was pretty intentional,but like, I'm going to go do this thing.Like, who made that choice?write her a letter and tell her that you still love herand tell her I know how much you're hurtingand if I could do anything I'd go back and hug you and say don't do thisthis is going to blow up a good man's life this is going to blow up my lifeand this isn't the path
45:38this isn't the solution to the hurt we have or to the emptiness that we feellet her gobecause you're dragging her around everywhere saying see look what you didsee look what you did that woman over there in the othercorner of the roommy brother-in-law's wifesee what you didyou ruined Christmas
45:59three years laterfour years laterfive years laterhmmoh no thatthat's definitely goodI meanbecause it's the
46:13I think that's the hardest partis the shameyou knowbut but you getand you've heard me say thisbut you get the differencebetween guilt and shame rightguilt is I screwed up I did
46:26I cheated on a good manshame is I'm a cheaterI'm not worth even coming over to this Christmas partyI'm the worst person hereand this woman at every turn confirmsthe story you've made up about yourselfabout how unlovable you areyeah that sounds right
46:50the path back from shame is a new storywhich is I'm a person of fidelity.I'm a person who never cheats on my husband,which means I've got to come up with a whole bunch of strategieson when I start feeling like I want to step out,when I start feeling bored in my own skin,or I start feeling less than that we have a path.We meet every week to talk about our calendar
47:10and our budget and our sex life for the week.We go on long walks on Saturday mornings together.We don't have to look at each other in the eye,but we're eye to eyeball to eyeball.We, whatever the things are,that we have a thing that's already in motion,It's a way of being for uswhere we talk about hard things
47:25that you don't wait till thatthat you shake up that two-liter bottleuntil it just is so full of disrupted airthat the top shoots off.That you have the ability to say,I need some adventure in our sex life this week.instead of saying i need you to go deeper with me in conversation to sayi'm going to send them to you the questions for humans intimacy deck cards and the
48:02questions for humans couples cards i'm going to send them to you for free i want to ask youseven questions and we're going to i want to sit in the bathtub with a hot bathand we're going to have candles in thereand you just sit on the floor next to meand we're going to go back and forthwith these questions.Which might be one of the most strangely intimate nightsyou've had in ages.
48:25Yeah.It sounds nice though.I know.You hear what I'm saying,but it's like you have the responsibilityto say out loud,here's what I want,and then here's an option.
48:37And then if he looks at you and says,I don't want to answer questions.I don't want to do that.I don't want to sit in the bathroomand talk about these,get to know,you better, I'd rather just watch a football game, but then y'all need to adjust that issue.Yeah.
48:52Right?Yeah.No, that makes sense.That sounds good.I want to definitely try that.The letter I want you to write, I want you to write that letter to her and let her go.Don't let her off the hook.She messed up, but I want to contextualize it.
49:07That was a hurting young woman who constantly sought to feel less pain by going and, and,and getting her heart rate up and doing something wild.Except this time is with my husband, and I blew up our life.The second letter I want you to write is to five years from now you,and it says, dear Jennifer, we are a person who always tells the truth.We're a person who has messed up in the past.We violated our own values in the past, and we will never do that.that again, which means we're a person who always puts our challenges on the table and has the
49:52courage to say, here's what I want this week. Jennifer is the kind of person who loves everybodyand treats everybody with respect, even when there's annoying family members that snub their noseat me. It's deciding who am I going to be and then just backfilling that with the actions that will getyou to that place. Otherwise, you walk into every room asking yourself, am I lovable? Becauseyou don't believe you are. And then your mind goes looking for what it wants. It's like it goeslooking for what you think to be true. And every glance, every time somebody walks out of the room,every time somebody covers up their wine glass, it's confirmation of the story you've alreadytold yourself, which is, I'm not worth being in this room. I'm unlovable.
50:44And that story's not true.Yeah, I'd say that's probably the hardest inner dialogue that I battle with.And, you know, that's just from my upbringing.I'm constantly feeling unloved and rejected.And then some guy's going to give you the illusion of love for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes.Yeah.Love is, love can be boring.and love is a choice made over and over and over again and sometimes it's got a cool
51:22fireworks show to it but most of the time it doesn't most of the time it's yard work most of thetime it's emptying the dishwasher most of the time it's washing little whiskers out of the sinklove is a bunch of little choices made over and over and over it's saying i'm sorryit's saying i don't know how we got sideways but here's a cup of coffee i just made for youis just picking up the underwear and put it in the basketand going on about your dayand not telling yourself a story that he's doing thatbecause he doesn't care about you and doesn't love you.
51:51I'm just going to pick up the underwear,dude, and get on about my day.But those things take practice.They're uncomfortable.They're boring.They're annoying.It's just water in the roots and water in the roots.And one day you realize we have a gigantic, sturdy tree.
52:10And that's a pretty amazing thing.Thanks for call, sister.go to Christmas with your head held high because you're worth being in that room.We'll be right back.All right, I got three dogs at my house, and they were outside dogs, and now they're inside dogs, and I love them, but it's a lot of stress.And I know, and you know, how stressful it can be during the holidays when you are traveling, and you've got pets, either at home or shoved into some pet carrier with you.And this is going to happen to you.on the road this holiday season, away from your regular vet, and you're going to need pet care
52:50right away. Dutch has your back. Dutch is the leading telehealth service for pets, and it gives you24-7 access to licensed vets. Dutch is amazing. They can treat over 150 common pet conditions,and you can get expert care in minutes, just a 10-minute call from wherever you are, and you've got atreatment plan ready to go.A Dutch membership covers up to five pets plus unlimited visits and unlimited follow-upsand prescriptions shipped for free.With my code, it's less than seven bucks a month.That pays for itself fast because you spend that much just to see a vet in an office
53:29one time.The average pet owner using Dutch saves over 800 bucks a year.Go to dutch.com slash deloni and use code deloni to get 50 bucks off a year.year of vet care. That's Dutch, D-U-T-C-H, dutch.com slash Deloni, and use code Deloni.All right, Kelly, something cool happened. What is it?Yes. So earlier this year, we had a guy named Phil that called in and was talking about hiswife was pregnant and she had a son from a previous marriage that he adored. And he wasnervous that he was going to favor his biological child over his stepson. So he writes in.
54:11I called earlier this year for advice on how to make sure I didn't love my stepson any lessafter having a biological child. Just wanted to give an update. My wife gave birth to a healthybaby girl back in August and we are all over the moon. I made a point to take my son tobreakfast at least once a month before work and school and had a couple of dudes weekends to getsome one-on-one time. Your advice on using your baby and your sister rather than just sayingthe baby, seemed to work, and it seemed to give him a sense of upcoming responsibility.Now that she has arised, my son has been very helpful, attentive, and loving to his new sister.While things are sticky, stinky, and loud in the house right now, we still have our breakfast,
54:53lunch dates. Thanks for the advice and the wisdom.That's fantastic. Hey, Ben, that's the name of our new band.Sticky, stinky, and loud.Ship it.That's a great band name.That is by far the most accurate description of y'all's band I've ever heard.it works.Dude, that's so fantastic.
55:11I love these follow-up stories.If you've ever been on the show beforeand you're muddling throughand figuring out the next right moveand you want to ride in,I'd love to hear from you.So if you've got that, that'd be great,but I appreciate him writing in.
55:24That's super cool.Two cool things happened this morning.I went to breakfast with my wife.I'm about to be on the road for a while,so we went, and there was a dadhaving a very awkward breakfast with his son.and his son was littleand they were
55:38it was awkwardand I could tellthey didn't really knowwhat to say to each otherand I stopped by to saydude this is so coollike this looks awesomeand that was cool
55:48and then the second oneis as I was leavinganother grown mansaid hey I neverI'm in Nashvillethere's always peoplecoming out of restaurantsand stuff
55:55I never stop thembut I needed to stop youand tell youthis is my friendthis is an old frat brotherof minethese are guysthat are probably 10 years
56:02older than methis is an old frat brotherof mineand you keeptelling us that we've got to get togetherand have friends and so we're catching upand he said, we've got through all the liesand then we got through all the old stories
56:13and now we're talking about stuff that matters. And it was just acool, like, very, very cool.Just in a random breakfast restauranthere in town. So those storiesmake memake all this show worth it. It makesevery day of my life just staring at Kellyand her Dallas Cowboy T-shirt. It makes it all worth
56:29it. Yes, all of it.Stinky. What was it?Stinky StinkySticky and loud.That might be the name of our life.We could win that way with that name.We can never win.But that might be the name of our live album.
56:44Sticky, Stinky and Loud.I like it.Dude, I'm in.Love you guys.Bye.
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