The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Backed Out of Our Threesome

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

📱Early access: Watch episodes of The Dr. John Delony Show one week early—download the free Ramsey Network app today! On today’s episode, we hear about: ·      A wife who left her husband out of their planned threesome ·      A woman unsure how to support her husband’s personal growth ·      A man struggling to overcome his fear of having kids with his future wife Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at BON CHARGE. 🌿 Get up to 40% off at Cozy Earth with code DELONY. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off at Organifi with code DELONY. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne.   🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights  🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Me and my husband explored the idea of having a threesome with another man. Then he found out about me sleeping with the guy first. And I was wondering how to help him through his emotions without running us both insane. Oh, that ship sailed sister. What up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John DeLoney Show. I'm so grateful that you are with us. Talking about your relationships, your marriages, who you're dating, your kids, your mental health, your emotional health.

For 20 plus years, I've been sitting with hurting people. I've got a PhD in education, I got a PhD in counseling. I've been sitting with hurting people, trying to help walk alongside people in messes. They've created messes that have been thrown at them, messes they've been dropped into, and help people figure out what's the next right move. I'd love to have you on this show.

If you wanna be with us, it's real people going through real tough times Give me a buzz at one eight four four six nine three three two nine one or go to John Delaney comm slash ask a SK Scott to Athens, Georgia and talk to the great and powerful Kate. Hey Kate, what's up? Hi, dr. John Hey Kate, what's up? Hi, Dr. John. What's up? You're already exasperated.

What happened? Yeah, it's different calling than listening. I can't wait. What happened? I can literally hear it on you. It's heavy. Okay, all right. Swan dive in.

Let's do it. Me and my husband explored the idea of having a threesome with another man. It's heavy. Okay. All right. Swan dive in. Let's do it. Me and my husband explored the idea of having a threesome with another man. Okay. And it turned into an affair on my part. Oh, she all went through, you went through with it. Well, we tried to, and I had not told him that I had done with a guy first. And we tried to go through with it.

And he absolutely hated it and I hated it and it was awful. And then, um, then he found out about me sleeping with a guy first and I was wondering how to help him through his emotions without running us both insane. Um, Oh, that's ship sale sister. The insane ship is out that ship sails sister. The insane ship is out of the harbor.

Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely different. I never ever thought I would do something like that in my entire life. Like it was out of character for me completely. So walk me back to the beginning. How did this thing get initiated? So we've been kind of like just messing around in the bedroom with it for like four years. Nothing we ever thought would actually come to like be a real

thing. Just something we fantasized about together. And then he kept, I ended up seeing in June that he had posted some pictures of me on a website that I was not aware of. Whoa. Okay. That feels like a violation there. So one, like y'all are having like some fun flirty in the bedroom, like, okay, what would happen and what would he want to look like? And would you want to be with another woman or would you want to be with another man? So y'all are having this flirty kind of fantasy role play-y conversation.

Yeah, it was definitely just something neither one of us I guess never thought would come into a real thing. Okay, so then he took the first step by posting you on a website or did y'all both agree like, hey, let's just go fishing a little bit and see what... Like if we made a fake account I wonder if we who would actually want to be interested in us well we had talked about it but we I didn't know he had done it okay so he went ahead put pictures of you up yes and then I found it in June how'd you find out that's I got

his phone we were we were at the pool with some friends and I went, me and my friend went to the store and he left it in the car and I saw it whenever we drove to the store. So you're just going through a phone and you find out there's an app on it and you're on some threesome website? Yeah. Okay. And that was kind of, I was mad about it, but I knew we had talked about it. So I wasn't like as angry about it, I guess, because we had discussed it before. Okay. So did you scream and yell and demand you take it down or you were like, all right,

well, let's see how it goes. Well, we kind of just like, we talked about it and we kind of decided to delete the whole thing. It wasn't like an argument. It was just like a conversation. Okay. We kind of decided to delete the whole thing. It wasn't like an argument. It was just like a conversation. So then, but at that point I thought he was serious because it turned into more of a real life situation.

So then I thought, well, maybe he really wants to do that. And maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. So I kind of pushed it more to see if that's something he would want to do. And then he was kind of pushing it with me and we kind of both thought each other was ready to do something like that. Was it a game of chicken that kind of got out like, I think so. Oh, this is happening.

Oh, this is really happening. Oh, you want like, and then nobody stopped anybody and all of a sudden y'all are heading off a cliff or right. I think that's exactly what happened. Okay. Because we tried one time to go through with it in person before this incident happened and neither one of us could go through with it. So y'all met with a third party and you're like, Hey, we're kind of into this.

Well we didn't even meet him. Like it came to the point where he was about to be on the way to the house and we both were like, we can't do this. Okay. So then we, and we talked about it and I told him that I felt kind of angry that he even wanted to do it. It was almost like, it was so weird to me because I did enjoy it in a way when we were talking about it.

But then the fact that he actually wanted to go through with it Made me feel like he wasn't protecting me From you being with another man Right, like it felt like he wasn't protecting my heart in any kind of way Okay, and so you showed him by going to find another guy and you slept with him I don't know. That's how I don't even I don't even know how that even happened Like we so then a guy's coming to your house and you're both like no no, what are we doing? This is crazy. This is like a fantasy out of control like stop right and then

You reached out and this is the same guy that was gonna come that night Okay, and he he I told him, you know total stranger. Did you know him? No, I had no idea who he was. He was a total stranger. Okay. And I had to, I texted him and then my husband texted him. We both told him like, we're not doing it. Sorry for, you know, getting you started. But then like a few, four days later or so, he texted me and was like, how are you doing? And then he kind of played on it like,

well, this is what your husband's been posting behind your back. And like, this is what he's doing. And he's probably seeing somebody else because he's posting these things and doing this behind your back. So he's probably doing other things behind your back too. And it kind of just got in my head. And then I kind of talked to my husband back into going through with the situation.

And then it ended up the guy was like, well, if you just come meet me, you feel more comfortable with the situation and then it ended up the guy was like well if you just come meet me you feel more comfortable with the situation and I was like yeah and I went he was like if you meet me first and you'll feel more comfortable when it does happen and so you're going to do it anyway so it's not wrong it's kind of how he put it oh y'all are gonna end up having sex together anyways you might as well y'all to do it anyway, so it's not wrong. It's kind of how he put it. Oh, y'all are going to end up having sex together anyway, so you might as well y'all two do it first and then it will be okay for the threesome. Exactly.

And now I look back at it with like a clear head and I'm like, that was so stupid. And we both have looked back at it as such a terrible like thing we even let into the bedroom just because it was so It's like it was all consuming for a few weeks. Yeah And now it came out and he I Almost didn't even want to tell him and I almost felt like if we went through with it, then it would make it. Okay

Like if we went through with it together, then I would feel justified with it Almost did y'all go through with it in the evening Did you call it off in the middle in the middle? Okay? Yeah, the guy was at our house and It kind of got started and then he my husband freaked out sure So then we both were like It was it was terrible and it was only two weeks ago when this happened. So it's very fresh. Okay And so then when your husband freaked out the the guy left and he's like, what was happening? I can't believe this. How long until you said, well, I've already met with this guy. I've already slept with him.

The next day. Okay. How did that go? The next day. He just kept asking questions. Like, I feel like you've seen him before. I feel like you know him. And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Cause I didn't, I didn't, he was already so upset and I didn't want to make it worse. Um, and I was like, I don't, I don't know what you're talking about. And then he was like, I'm just going to text him and ask him. And I said, okay, fine. So then I just told him. And now it's, he's very like, he, he says he wants to fix things, but he's, it's, he's waking me up in the middle of the night, almost every night with different questions and different things. And, um, one minute he'll be fine. And the next minute

he'll be really upset. And I don't really know how to really upset and I don't really know how to help him process it. I also am trying to process it because I've never been that kind of person. Yeah, you became somebody that you don't even recognize. Right. And that's what scared me the most was that I looked and I never thought I was even capable of that. Like the way that I feel about my husband has always been insane. Like, I guess that's not a great word, but like I've always been super in love with my husband since I met him. So the fact that I would even entertain, but we were having issues before it happened.

And I've, I don't want to justify it by saying that, but there were things going on like it by saying that. But there were things going on like with communication and lack of communication. We moved a year ago away from our family and my mental health has not been great. Like I've been, I started having panic attacks again for the first time in years and I was looking back on our conversations and reading where I was like basically begging him to help me or to like To support me in any kind of way because he works night shifts. I'm always by myself So I was like texting him and I was like, will you please just like Help me with this part because I can't do this and I'm having a really hard time and he would just be like why I can't

fix you And I was like I know that but like I need some help and you're the only person I have So there's multiple issues here, okay? Okay issue number one is You have a marriage that was already a mess You have a marriage that was already a mess. If your body is screaming at you trying to get your attention to the point that it spins you out and convinces you you're dying via panic attack and your husband says, I can't fix that.

He doesn't stop what he's doing and come running. You'll have cracks in your relationship that are pretty significant. Yeah. That's number one. Number two, you lost trust in you. Yeah. And that's a scary place to be when we lose trust in ourselves. Because it's hard to take the next step. place to be when we lose trust in ourselves.

Because it's hard to take the next step. When we find out we're capable of things that we judged other people on before, when we find ourselves capable of hurting other people or justifying weird things or falling prey to or using really thin arguments to go do a thing just to see what happens. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah and the third thing is like You you you blew up your husband's trust. This is gonna sound crazy But

Y'all planned to do a thing y'all planned to do a thing, y'all planned to do infidelity together. Yeah. Which became a y'all versus the world kind of thing. And I know like that in and of itself is a whole different conversation, but you violated that trust, right? Yeah. And so if he was calling me, we would have be having a different conversation but ultimately the marriage you had is over. Doesn't exist anymore. It's dust. Just smoke. Which I feel like is a good thing. Like in a way we've...

Could be. Could be. It sucks because good thing. Like in a way we've... Could be. Could be. It sucks because we've talked more in the past two weeks than we have for the past two years. That's right. That's why a lot of people say that an affair saved their marriage. Because it just blew the house down. That was a house of cards anyway.

That no one would just say out loud, this is what this actually is. It's not a reason to go have an affair, God help us, but there are people like it brings to light what everything like truth real fast, right? Yeah, it does. So the next steps have to be if y'all decide not to save your marriage, that one's over to rebuild a new one. Y'all can do that And it can we've seen a counselor virtually

But his advice was basically Just don't talk about it. That's because it's opening the wound. Well, that's stupid. Don't ever talk to that guy again. Yeah It's less about don't talk about it. And you gotta understand your husband, that same person that you're saying, like, I can't believe I did this. He knew you that way too. Yeah.

Right? And only y'all three know how this engagement started when this third party walked into your house and what images are in your husband's eye head. And when he's been asking you very specific questions, which is really common after an affair, like I want to know exactly what happened. Exactly. Now he's looping on that. The images in his head all the time of you with this

guy, you with this guy, and he kind of got a glimpse of you with this guy in real life, right? So it's all there. The next steps are very specific. Here is an open book, the table is clear, what must be true for me to rebuild trust in this house. Okay. And by the way, he also texted the guy and said come over here's my address. So he's culpable too. Yeah. But y'all both have to lay out on the table here's what re-establishing trust looks like. Okay. I think that's where we're stuck is like we we don't know where to start. Okay so you tell me and he gets to tell you. Y'all tell each other. Let me say it that way. Well he tells me I don't know. Okay well that's they didn't

say I'm gonna go first I'm deleting all all apps I'm cutting the internet off the house for 30 days At 8 o'clock at night all the phones get shut completely off in this house and we have to stare at each other Okay, and that means we have to play Twister together or I'll send you some questions for human sex. We got to get to know each other again. We got to go on walks. We're going to read books together. We're going to have to do these things together and recreate a new, like you got to go first.

If he's like, I don't even know where to start. And then you get to say, and by the way, you open the door for this man to walk in the house and have sex with me right in front of you. I lost trust in you too. Yeah. Here's what must be true for me. I want to know that you'll fight for my heart again. And you all have to also draw some boundaries. All right.

Flirty conversations, what if conversations, fantasy conversations, those can be so fun and playful and exciting and erotic. I'm all about it. Have all the fun you want. Have all the conversations you want to have. But in the future, here's the breaks. Right? You all got to build those boundaries in. But in the future, here's the breaks, right? You all got to build those boundaries in.

So here's what this is going to look like. I don't ever want to have another conversation about you with another person, another man, another woman ever again. Okay. I don't want to have that conversation. And you can say, you get three questions or five questions a day.

And once you reach that limit, then we gonna go to the next day because just sitting here having like 40 questions every single day every single day Isn't helpful. I think what he can't move past is like he doesn't believe What I'm telling him about what happened and that's that's That's the damning thing about sneaking off and sleeping with somebody else. Right. You're not who he thought you were, right? Right.

So he's trying to imagine who you might be. And I promise what he's envisioning is worse than reality. Yeah. But that's the part you can't fix. What you can do is, is do the next right thing every minute, every hour, every day. Right. And y'all can both say, Hey, what does it look like when it comes to chores? What does it look like every day before we go to work?

How can I love you today? What does it look like every evening with on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays all plan the activities that we're going to do after eight o'clock and Tuesdays and Thursdays and Saturdays you plan the activities we're going to do after eight o'clock or seven o'clock because our phones are off. Okay. And we've got to come up but we got to reimagine our lives together Or twice a week we're gonna have another couple over just for dinner We're gonna go to a comedy show we're gonna watch a movie we're gonna begin to do things

So we can reestablish liking reestablish safety reestablish trust in this relationship because we blew it up Yeah And you could tell them, I totally understand your lack of trust. And, but you just trying to tell them you're crazy for thinking this isn't helpful. So I will answer, I'll answer your questions. I'll answer five a day. That's kind of my capacity or seven a day or 10. You get to decide two a day. I don't care what it is. But when each of you establishes here's what it's going to take to reestablish trust and rebuild something amazing. The other person can say that's not enough for me. I'm out. Okay. Here's the question I

want you to answer. I want you all to put it at the top of your paper. What do we want this house to feel like in one year when we both walk in? I want to feel full of laughter, warmth, sexiness, silliness, dancing. Then let's reverse engineer what must be true starting today. I take dance classes. Cool. Both got to go to the gym. Cool.

Both gonna start reading the same like I do a book study together. Cool. Okay. That makes, does that make sense? Yeah, that does make sense. Like you said, it's really just everything just, it's totally different. Everything changed. Yes.

So you're dating again. Hi, my name is Kate. I think you're kind of cute. Can I get your number? And you both know the capacity you have to hurt each other. Yeah. I'm going to tell you something crazy. I don't think your marriage is over if you don't want it to be. you have to hurt each other. Yeah. I'm going to tell you something crazy. I don't think your marriage is over if you don't want it to be.

And he doesn't want it to be. I think there's going to be some fumbling and stumbling around in the dark as you all rediscover who you are, what you all are capable of. How to forgive and how to say you're sorry. And then the most important thing is how to act anew, how to begin doing different things. Is that fair? Yeah, that's fair.

As a cautionary oracle, I read a study, gosh man, it's been a minute since I read it, maybe a few years ago, but it's something like 90 something percent of, it was a number that was so astronomical I couldn't believe it, have thought about a threesome or fantasized about a threesome and more and more couples are like yeah let's give it a shot what would you say to the couple who thinks they're pretty tired they've been married for eight years ten years fifteen

years whatever that's like yeah we can do it we can handle it what would you tell that couple no without that was our part we were reading all like the Reddit threads and all the forums and people are saying, oh, it's great. And, and it'll make your marriage better. And we kind of got to the point where that was like the only thing we were good at was having sex. So we were kind of like, well, if it's going to make that better than it has to make everything else better too. But I would definitely, if anybody asked me, I mean, it's, it's going to make that better, then it has to make everything else better too. But I would definitely, if anybody asked me, I mean, it's just like a poison that gets in and it just spreads.

All right, here's the deal. You call me anytime, okay? And if you and your husband want to be my guest at the money and marriage in February here in Nashville, Tennessee Y'all two can be my guest. You'll have to get your airfare here in your hotel here, but I'll cover your tickets Okay, we could do that. Okay Okay, but there's a lot of work between now and February now and Valentine's Day Asking yourself this question, how do you want this house to feel like when we walk home?

Because here's the beautiful thing, y'all made some decisions to blow the thing up. Y'all can make that same, those same decisions to recreate something fricking amazing. And I love what you just said. It's really important. The only thing we got good at was having sex. Cool.

It's not a bad place to start. It's a pretty awesome place to start. But let that be an anchor point and begin to have honest conversations about we don't like each other. How do we let's reimagine liking each other. Yeah. You complain a lot. All you talk about is conspiracy theories. You actually think people landed on the moon. I'm vegetarian and all you want to do is each day like, let's, I don't like being around your mother. I like,

let's have these things because they're happening in our marriage whether we want to talk about them or not. Yeah. And then most importantly, let's begin to act different. Is that cool? That's great. Thanks for the call, my sister. I can't wait to see what kind of work you all do. I mean, I'm strangely optimistic and I don't know why it's just a sense. If your husband ever wants to call, tell him to give me a shout. I'm sure people listening will want to know the other side of this story too. I'd love to talk to him as well. And if y'all both want to call in, I'd love to have you both on.

Your marriage as you knew it is over. Here's the question. Do we want to build? And if we do, what are we going to build next? We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey folks, we all have stories. We have the family and cultural stories we were born into.

We have the stories about the good and the challenging things that have happened to us. And we have the stories that we are constantly telling ourselves. The stories of our past and the stories we have yet to write about futures that are powerful. And while you can't go back and change any of your old stories, the world is waiting to see what story you're going to write next. As we enter into 2025, I want to encourage you

to examine and even heal your old stories and be intentional about the new ones that you're writing. And I'm not talking about goals that will be long gone by February. I'm talking about writing new stories that will change your life forever for the better. If you're like me, therapy can be a great place to explore the old stories and begin to write new ones. Maybe think of your therapist as your editorial partner helping you write new better stories. And if you're considering therapy, I want you to consider BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy,

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I love counting crows. What's up, Sarah? What's up? It's good to talk to you. It's good to talk to you. I'm honored. I'm honored to talk to you. I promise I'm more honored.

What's up? Well, I'll just start with my question and we can go from there. My question initially is how can I support my husband's growth while I do my own healing and setting realistic expectations for rebuilding our marriage? What are you healing from? We've been married for 15 years and he it's basically been neglect and some emotional and occasional verbal abuse And

Trying to just figure out how to move forward from there So I started listening to your show just over a year ago and in September I turned the music off and I turned the lights on and said this is actually what's happening in our marriage and I'm not okay with it and Hey I'm proud of you. Thank you. You have little ones? I do I have a 13 year old a 10 year old and a 7 year old. That made that conversation extra scary, didn't it? Yeah. Okay.

So you, you, you cut off the music, you turn on the lights, you sat down and said that this part of our life is over. How did he react? He didn't. Um, yeah, I didn't probably do it in the very best way, but I told him I would really wanting separation and I wrote him a long letter and we tried to very best way, but I told him I was really wanting separation and I wrote him a long letter and we tried to talk about it, but he kind of just ignored the whole thing and tried to just do some things better around the house and whatever.

And we tried to bring in some other people to help and didn't really get a lot of help and just kind of stayed in our cycle for the last year. And I know he's making some efforts toward change, but I'm having a really hard time responding positively because I know what the cycle looks like when I respond positively to what changes he makes. Okay. So A, I want to applaud your bravery. Good on you.

Okay. So often this moment, what you did is still kind of scary, right? Yeah. And it can feel like a nerve, like a raw nerve ending. Yeah. But that also means if I try to give you some coaching tips and some ideas on how to move forward, it can hurt. Right? So if I walk through this with you, the best you can, like your feelings are going to be what

your feelings are. Right? If we could all control our feelings, how rad would that be? But we can. They just, there are, there are bodies do it. Our bodies do. But will you at least intellectually hold space for, I think what you did was very brave and pretty amazing. And here's some next steps. Is that cool? Like me with you, not at you. Okay. Most of the time it takes so much like these conversations build up for so long that they either come out like you mentioned, kind of caustic, this is the end, I want a separation, I want this, I want this, that the other person knows you don't really mean and they know I'm just going to weather the storm and then things will kind of get back

to the way they were. Or people explode, they do something that they can't take back. They cheat or they go buy a bunch of stupid stuff on borrowed money. Right? They do something they can't take back. So here's the next move. Most of the time people are not very specific about what I need to see happen in this house. It's usually about here's how I feel and here's what I want and you need to start.

But there needs to be some really specific benchmarks because here's what's gonna happen. I think, do you love this man? Do you love him? Yeah, we've been together a long time. Okay, so he's part of you. He's like an arm or a leg at this point, right? Yeah, we've been together a long time. Okay, so he's part of you. He's like an arm or a leg at this point, right? Yeah.

Okay, you love him, but you don't like this guy at all. Is that fair? That's probably fair, yeah. Okay, like you love him, he's part of you at this point. Y'all have made a life together, but you don't like the guy. Yeah. If you don't establish some pretty clear benchmarks, your like and dislike is just,

the finish line there is gonna keep moving. And so if you say, I just need you to help out around here some more. Well, in his head, he's got a picture of what helps out looks like. And he's got a picture of what some more looks like and for you you have a picture now but you're going to be judging whether he's helping out some more by whether you feel like you like him and that finish line will keep moving and moving and moving

do you get what I'm saying yeah yeah I've seen that whole cycle happen okay and then he realizes I can't win here. There's no way that I can bring this thing back because she just keeps moving the line on me or nothing I ever do is enough. Or as Terry Real says, most men just want to know why doesn't my wife like me? What is so bad about me? And it comes down to a set of aligning pictures and words and then really saying here's what I need in this house and specific metrics and I know that feels very unromantic

and very unholywood and very unsexy but Hollywood was never real. Yeah, I feel like in the last year, because I've talked to, I've talked to, I've talked to our eldership, and I have a couple of really good friends that we've walked through. And so I've put down some really specific things. But I think the follow through or having like, the backbone to follow through is the hard part that I've struggled with. Tell me what you mean by that. Um, well, like, cause I, I did ask him to move out or I said I would move out with the

kids. Um, if he continued to speak to us this way or if he spoke to the kids like he had or to me like that again. And so that stops for a few weeks and then something happens, but I don't just move out when that happens. And we just have another conversation about it. Okay, so you've heard me say this in the last year, behavior is a language. So he understands that when you're mad, he just has to hang on and the storm will pass.

Yeah. He just has to hang on and the storm will pass Yeah, because your little your your behavior says forget what I say, I'm not actually gonna go anywhere And when you say speak to the kids in that way I remember one time I sat down with a supervisor and I said if you curse at me again I will get up and walk out of this room and I will not come back are we on the same page? I never cursing I said if you curse at me again I will get up and walk out and the the response was a long pause and it was understood and To this leaders credit the supervisor because it never happened again So did you when you spoke to him and said I don't like the way you talk to the kids Did you say if you yell again, if you belittle me or make fun of me again, if you curse at us again, we leave?

Or was it just- I have said that. Okay. Okay. I have said that. Yeah. So it's cursing, calling names. Great.

Good for you. Things like that. Okay. So now it's just a matter of follow throughthrough or you come back and say I'm not gonna leave I'm actually not leaving. I'm never gonna leave I Want you to choose to not treat us like we're like You know with like you don't love us that we're in the way and somehow in your life Mm-hmm Can I ask you something insane?

Yeah When's the last time you made him a cup of coffee? Every day almost. Okay. All right. So you're trying. Yeah, I spent a lot of years trying this last, probably the last three months has gotten really, really hard. I just kind of have shut down in a lot of ways.

Like I'm really having trouble just getting through my days. Is that because you know what's coming? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a homeschool mom and there's just never a break. Yeah, but it's bigger than that. Are you coming to the realization that your life is not going to change unless you do something dramatic? Yeah, and I feel like I've been making dramatic steps for a year. Okay. You've been making dramatic statements for a year, but you haven't been making dramatic steps, right?

Yeah, other than bringing other people into the picture to try to help get us some guidance and direction. Does he want that guidance and direction? I don't think so. I think he says he does, but it's really hard for him to submit to any kind of authority. So if behavior is a language, what's he been telling you for the last year? I don't know. Cause he knows I'm not going to do anything. What has he been telling you? If behavior is a language,

what has your husband been telling you for the last year after you sat down and said, I can't do this anymore? Um, he's, he's tried to put in some effort. Um, so let me ask you this on behalf of him. Are you done? Is this theater? I've been asking myself that for a couple weeks now for really solidly if I'm done. And about 90% of me says yes. I just don't know how.

What does that mean? I can't support ourselves and I can't support the kids and I don't have a job and I homeschool my kids and... So some of those things are going to have to change. Yeah. Your kids are going to have to go to regular school and you're going to have to get a job and you're going to have to do this officially so that your husband will pay child support in alimony. And I don't want that. I want to make it work.

I know what you want, but what is is what it is. He doesn't want to make it work. If behavior is a language for a year, he's been telling you, yeah, I don't care. I just want you to turn the lights back off and turn the music back on. Every year he's been telling you, yeah, I don't care. I just want you to turn the lights back off, turn the music back on. Let's just go about our regular life. Yeah. I'll meet with whatever guy you want me to meet with and I'll tell them I'm going to

work hard, but I'm not going to. And I'd rather have my ego intact than my family intact. Yeah, I think there's an element of that for sure. I mean, if somebody won't submit to an authority, it's funny, I started a new training program with a new trainer and I've had the same, like I've been like worked with the same guys for years and I just started a whole new thing just to mix it up and it's a pretty amazing company and the trainer sat down with me and we walked through it all and

the trainer was like, oh my gosh, okay, you know all the stuff I was like, yeah, I know all the stuff and He said how can I help you? And I said, I'm submitting to you. If you tell me to do this, you put it in the app, I'm going to do it with no questions asked. And he was like, wow. I go, I am submitting to you. You are my trainer from this point forward. I said that to my minister at my church.

When I signed up to place membership at your church, I submitted to your leadership and that's just my particular faith community. And he is, your husband won't submit to somebody, to a therapist who says, I know more about what's happening than you do. Yeah. Nah, I don't want that. I'd rather be right. I'd rather be right.

I'd rather my illusion of power. That's cool. He's going to lose everything or here's the other side. He's not going to lose anything. Nothing's going to change. He's just going to slowly, his wife's just going to turn to dust in his presence. Yeah, that's happened. Yeah.

I can feel it. You don't deserve that. Your kids don can feel it. You don't deserve that. Your kids don't deserve that. He doesn't deserve that. And so I think the conversation is 90% like you've done all the feeling parts of this. There's the tactile direct. How much money will it cost for me to get an apartment for the kids? Or how much like

husband you're moving out on this date? I've got somebody at my local church who will serve as an attorney and will do this at a discounted rate for us. You are telling me by your actions you don't want to be married to me anymore. Because you can't curse at me and the kids and you can't scare your family and all the other things that you're not telling me on the on the air, which I know are going on. Fair? Yeah.

Yeah. And so here, I guess my challenge for you is this. I would love for you to sit down with somebody and actually put a pen to paper and make an actual plan with actual numbers and Exhale on that plan Because right now you've made all these grand gestures and these statements and they're brave and they're different But they don't have any action behind them. They don't have any steps behind them and Good on you. You've you've continued to tell him you cannot talk to us like this and here's what that means. And other I'm sure there's other things you've said you

cannot hit me again. You cannot spin this again. You cannot come home drunk again or whatever you've laid out for him. And through his actions, he said, I don't care. I will weather the storm and you always make these big proclamations. You don't ever do anything and here she goes again I'm gonna let it ride and then we're gonna move on and if you want to let it ride let it ride Let it ride but stop beating yourself up over it or if you are done The 90% you've thought through it and felt through it and prayed through it and gotten wise counsel through it and there's 10% left then if you're done and for the sake of him for you for your

kids go make a plan and put it on paper and see what happens next at least you've got at least you at least you're acting from a place of, with a firm foundation instead of just a sense of feeling. My dream is that your marriage is safe. Is that he goes, what am I doing? My stupid ego is about to blow this whole thing up. And me and my wife haven't liked each other for a long time, but we can get that back. That's not hard to get back. We can get that back. And I don't want these kids to grow up with going to two different Christmases

and two different things. We can get that back. God, I wish you would do that. And I wish you would love yourself enough to demand that. But also there's a financial reality. There's a there's a fiscal. I mean there's just there's reality after reality after reality after reality. I get that. But I think it's time for action steps. You say, how can I support my husband's growth? It doesn't sound like he's growing. If you see growth in trajectory, then you start practicing how do we like each other again?

Let's go do fun things together. Let's do questions for humans together. Let's go be silly together. Let's go see a movie together. Let's go see a play together. I don't know what y'all are into. Let's go do fun things together. Let's do questions for humans together. Let's go be silly together. Let's go see a movie together. Let's go see a play together. I don't know what y'all are into. Let's go fishing together. Whatever things y'all are into.

Let's begin to work on our friendship. Let's work on liking ourselves together. But what I'm hearing is he's not growing. It sounds like he abused you one last time. You said enough is enough is enough. You drew the line and then he stepped over that line and you're thinking are you oh, oh, this is real. I Hate this for you my friend. I'll be here every step away call me anytime anyway, I can help you Anyway, I can help you

I think it's time to get some wise counsel in your life some friends around you and say, okay I don't have to I don't have to act but at least need to get some wise counsel in your life, some friends around you and say, okay. I don't have to act, but I at least need to get some action steps. I at least need to have a plan on paper and see what this is gonna look like. And then me and my husband are gonna sit back down and say, okay, you didn't follow through. Here's what happens next.

Until the call, my friend, we'll be right back. All right, since the first day I started the Dr. John Delaney show, I've preached about the importance of regular exercise and your overall physical health. And I'm thrilled to announce I've partnered with Trainwell, an amazing app and personal trainer in one. Trainwell offers tailored workouts

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Go right now. It will change your life. Trainwell.net slash deloney. All right. Let's go to Austin, Texas and talk to Steven. Hey, Steven, what's up, brother? Yeah. So I guess just kind of the, the condensed version of my question would be how do I overcome

anxiety related to having children? Oh good question. What are you anxious about? I am terrified of screwing up somebody else's life. I like to think that I came from a pretty good family, but my, my dad had his issues and a lot of those issues kind of got passed on and I'm scared to pass those same issues. Tell me about them. What are your, what are your issues? Don't tell me about your dad's. What are your issues that you think you have that are going to ruin a child?

Man. Um, well, uh, in the past, I've struggled with, with addiction. Now that's, that's a long time ago in my life. Um, I've been clean for about 10 years. Okay. At this point. What was your drug of choice? Pardon?

What was your drug of choice? Uh, it was alcohol and cocaine. Okay. To the big boys, huh? Yes, sir. Okay. To the big boys, huh? Yes, sir. Yeah. What did alcohol and cocaine, what did that wallpaper over for you? I guess several things. I had a friend that died when I was young and, and that kind of spurred a lot of this stuff on, um, alcohol was, it started with alcohol and

then kind of moved on beyond that. Um, so it was the death of a close friend, my best friend, actually, um, beyond that, I had kind of dealt with just general depression and anxiety related issues growing up. Um, didn't really realize what they were up until I truthfully, I got clean. Uh, I didn't really realize that's what I was doing. I was trying to cover up, you You know those depression issues and all the anxiety issues that I was having But I would say that those two things were probably the two biggest contributors How old were you and your buddy died I

Was 18 18. I'm sorry about your friend. Thank you. What was his name? Her name is Montana. Montana? Yes, sir. Was she goofy? Was she silly? Was she serious?

Sexy? Funny? Tell me about her. Yeah, she was pretty goofy. She was a big WWE fan. Sweet, dude. Yeah. So it's, I kind of gives you an idea of like, you know, just the kind of person

that she was a great person though. We'll give you the shirt off her back. I hope it helps somebody else out. Um, yeah. And before that, what role did she play in your life? Um, she was just my, my closest friend. Before that, what role did she play in your life? She was just my closest friend. We were together all the time.

Never any kind of like a romantic thing or anything like that. Truly just friends. We worked together for a period of time. So she was a coworker. We would hang out. We, should we be told, we partied a little bit. Now that was kind of before the cocaine. That was a little bit of the drinking.

Had just started out, you know, just kind of teenage, you know, experimentation, I guess. Did your dad struggle with substance abuse? Yes, sir. Okay. How long, your whole life? Oh, yeah, my whole life. We'll go into this day. Where's mom?

Divorce. That happened about a year ago. Okay. So tell me if I'm way off base here and I don't mind being way off base, okay? When you grow up in the home of somebody who's struggling with addiction of any kind, you grow up next to like a ghost image of your mom or your dad or your brother or your sister. And especially when you're a little kid and into your early teen years, everything a child does has to be anchored into two adults that care about him.

And you're anchoring into a ghost. You try to hug this person and they weren't there. Your dad was on the couch but he wasn't there. Your dad would smile at you but he'd look through you. And then you have this wild card goofball WWE loving fun friend that happens to be a girl, which when you're a young boy, it feels like you got the keys to the kingdom, right? Two of my best friends growing up were girls and I felt like I had insider knowledge, right? It was amazing.

But you have a special connection, especially non-romantic friendship, which is pretty rare, but it's pretty rad. But it sounds like you may have been a really lonely kid. And then your whole world went away when you were 18. That sounds pretty right. So how old are you now? I'm 32. Okay. Something in the last 12 to 14 years has happened.

You don't like you anymore. Why not? You know, that's a good question. Don't go back to the past. Give me right now. I mean, you're worried about kids. Are you married? Are you seeing somebody?

I'm engaged. We've been dating for about five and a half years. Good God, it's taking you so long. You know, there were, so I guess it's kind of separately on that. There were all sorts of goals that I had in my mind, like, Oh, I want to have a house ready to go that way. When we get married, you know, we got a house to go to. And, uh, and also if I'm, if I'm going to be real honest, I knew that shortly

after we got married, kids were going to come into the picture. She made it clear pretty early on that she wanted kids. And while I certainly am not against that, I knew that like once I pulled that trigger, well that timer's counting down. Okay, two things on that. When you grow up with anxiety and low level dysthymia, low level depression that just hangs around like a bad headache all the time, right? One of the ways you can cope with that is trying to grasp every variable in the world and control it. I will make this much money by this age. I will have a house by this age. I will have this degree by this age. I will be at this job. See what I'm saying?

It's a kid trying to create order out of a chaotic childhood into adulthood but the only way we're told we're taught how to create order is by these external metrics these external things that are supposed to tell us that we're doing okay and we're all fine now and it sounds like for the last 14 years you've been accomplishing those things. Are you pretty damn accomplished? Are you pretty good at what you do? I like to think so.

Yeah. Yes sir. Like, I can heal it. Like what do you do for a living? Give me a general picture. I work in sales. Okay. And you do well?

Yes sir, I do. Do you do real well? I like to think so. I guess it depends on what metric you're looking at, but generally speaking, yes, sir. You salespeople always have the next guy ahead of you. Give me a salary ballpark. So the job that I work, if I just do my job, I would only make around 50,000. I'm regularly in the 90 to 100 range. Okay.

And you had a magic number that you thought if I got six figures, then it was going to be okay? Yes, sir. And then you learned that sucky thing that we all learn, which is you made six figures that one time and you went with you. And you still didn't like you even though you had that number. I guess that's right. Yes, sir.

The second thing is this. I don't want you to enter into a marriage where you feel like you are entering into a mother son relationship. Oh, no, no, sir. No, sir. Where you like lose control, right? Mm hmm. If you want to get married and you want to start creating a life for this person, but

you're not ready to have kids, I want you to enter into a relationship with a partner who will honor that and walk with you. Absolutely. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Absolutely. Okay. So it's kind of tongue-in-cheek.

Kind of, uh, like the day you get married, she's not gonna be like, ha ha ha! And like, do a burn the birth control ceremony, and then like, we're having, like, that's not gonna happen, right? No, no. Okay, um, here's the deal, I want you to maintain your voice. But all this to say, what are you concerned about with your kids? What do you think you're gonna do to a child? Specifically, I don't know. Abstractly, I'm worried about passing on my own problems

that I've dealt with and my dad, my dad is dealt with another family Your dad hasn't dealt with it you have Fair enough. Yeah, say this repeat after me. I am NOT my dad I'm not my dad. No, no, no. I am NOT my dad. I'm not my dad. No, no, no. I am not my dad. I'm not my dad. Will you make a commitment when you have a child every day you're in town? You will tell that kid, boy or girl, son or daughter, you'll look that child in the eye

and say, I love you and give them a hug? Absolutely. There will never be a day of that kid's life that they don't fully know the dad loves them? Absolutely. Will you make a commitment to stay sober and if you find yourself unable to like needing to numb some sort of hurt that you'll seek professional help. You'll go get the care that you need Absolutely. Yes, sir. Say repeat after me man. I screwed up. I'm sorry Man I screwed up. I'm sorry If you can say those words you're gonna be a world-class dad

Will you commit to never making your kid feel small even if they've got weird wacky dreams and not swearing and yelling at your kids? Absolutely. Will you commit to honoring those kids mom till the end of time? That doesn't mean agreeing with everything but that means treating her with dignity and respect. Yes sir. You need to start having kids tomorrow because I want more dads like you out in the world right now. It's funny, that's what my fiance says as well. So here's the deal.

I don't think you're scared of passing on. I don't think you're scared of ruining your kids. Here's what I think you're scared of. I think you're scared of your kids looking at you and thinking about you like you think about you. I think you're scared about having kids and them looking at you and becoming ghosts just like your mom and dad did. And I want you to let that fear go. Okay?

Yes, sir. Your kids will love you till the moon and back. And they demand little things like presents. And putting your phone down. And sitting in the mud with them. And like my daughter last night scraping snowflakes off of a disgusting sidewalk and eating it. I just let it roll, dude. You know what I mean? And I had a hard, hard conversation last night with my son.

He's really struggling when it comes to my phone restrictions and all that. And it's hard. I hate it for a man. But he knows that I love him. And you're going to be that kind of dad. But your kids aren't going to stare through a hole through you. They're just not. You're going to be the most important thing of their entire world. But the person that needs to believe that is you.

And your dad drank because he was going through hell, not because of anything you did. And your mom left not because of you, because she was dealing with crap, she was dealing with her own hell. Think of it this way, there's a period at the end of that sentence and the world is waiting to find out what Stephen's going to write next. When is your wedding, dude? We're still trying to figure out dates. Good God, go to the Justice of the Peace tomorrow. Five and a half years.

Plan a party later. And if you feel any better, the proposal actually just happened last night and she said yes. She said yes? So I'm going to figure out the dates, yes. Well go this weekend and just call it. You've been dating for half a decade already. Yes sir. And I want you here's what I want you to do tonight.

Will you do me a weird favor? Yeah. This is gonna sound crazy. This may be the most romantic thing you've ever done. And I want you to take full credit for this and don't say that you heard it from some podcast guy. Okay. Okay.

You're 32. How old is your wife? Your fiance? She's 28. 28. I want you to write a letter to 38 year old her. I know 10 years from now. Okay. I want you to write about what kind of husband you are going to become over the next decade. What kind of man you're going to become over the next decade. And how you're going to dedicate your life to listening and to not trying to solve but to be with her and to love her and to provide. And then I want you to write a letter to your future kid. Ten years from now.

So maybe that kid will be eight. Or knowing you, you won't get married for four more years because you want to plan the perfect wedding. So whatever. But I want you to write a letter to that kid and I want you to read it to her. Here's what's gonna be different. Because God chose me to be your dad.

And I want you to read it to your wife or to your fiance. I want you to put it out into the universe. But more importantly, I want you to hear it. Here's what kind of dad I am going to become. The great Terry Real says, family trauma rolls, burns through a family like a forest fire until one person turns and stares it down and brings peace to generations they will never know. And the part I added is the person who turns and stares it down gets burned and gets scars and it's painful But he brings peace as Terry says to those next generations. That's you And this is you saying this

generational substance abuse the generational depression the generational anxiety stops with me substance abuse, the generational depression, the generational anxiety, it stops with me. My kids will know love and connection and laughter and warmth and joy and they'll know sadness and grief too. But this stops with me and I'm putting a stake in the ground right now and to my dear fiance, here's the life you can expect over the next 10 years. I dedicate my life to you and the kids that aren't even here yet, here's the dad I'm gonna become. I'm gonna start working on this right now. Actually, you started working on this 14 years ago

and you decided to get sober. And one last letter, you got three to write. I want you to write one last letter to your friend. And once you go back and listen to this interview, this conversation between us, whenever you brought her up, you lit up like a Christmas tree I could hear your voice When she'll go back and write her a letter and let her Go

Let her go be free with whatever WWE angels she's hanging out with and Commit to her in that letter. I'm going to live a life for both of us now and it's going to be wheels off off the top rope wheels off. I'm going to be the dad I never had. There's no anxiety about bringing kids into the future. It is wheels off.

By the way, that's a crazy statement. Of course, we're going to be anxious about kids. The world's a crazy place. I'm gonna make these commitments now and I'm gonna go do the next right thing to make these commitments happen. Send me a wedding invitation brother and let me know when little Steven Jr. is on the way or Stevenetta, I don't know who's gonna be. Boy or girl? I made that real weird, sorry. Kelly's looking at me like, yeah, you made that weird. Send me a birth notice here in a couple of years.

The work you've done, Steven, is amazing. And I think the work is just getting started. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. I am the founding member of the Get Off the Internet and Go Outside Club. And yet, like all of you, I find myself at work and in my personal life pretty much living on the internets these days. As a society, we're creating more and more online accounts all the time. And we're signing up for promos, giving away our emails and personal numbers

and buying everything with our phones. I get hundreds of emails to my personal account, my business accounts and every business wants to survey me and become my friend and everyone everywhere is trying to sell me all kinds of stuff. It drives me nuts. And with all of this online activity, do any of us really know where our data is and who has it?

Chances are high that data broker websites have your information and they're selling it to scammers, spammers, and other shady people. But when you use Delete Me, they find and remove your data from hundreds of sites and they send you reports throughout the year to show you exactly what they've removed and from where. And right now, I'm getting way fewer of those spammy texts and phone calls and it allows me to let my guard down just a little bit and finally feel some peace. This new year I want you to share the peace by giving a delete me subscription to someone

you love. Individual delete me plans start as low as $9 a month. Go to join, J-O-I-N, deleteme.com slash deloney today for 20% off. That's joindeleteme.com slash deloney. All right, we are back. All right, something cool happened. Kelly, what is it? All right, this is from Ryan. He said, I heard John reference a song called Ceasefire by Frank Turner during

an episode. Oh, geez. That song makes me weep. I listened to it and the song really resonated with me. I like to say this year has been sort of my post-war era. I'm 32 and growing up in a chaotic household taught me to always look for high energy situations and environments. My 15 year old selfold self was always on the battlefield, and ever since I've been continuing to show up on the battlefield starting the wars if I needed to. This year I decided to change that. But much like the song, I think about my 15-year-old self a lot. And although I love him very much, I realized that I was being very unkind to

him. I expected him to figure things out that he never could have solved. As John would say, it's time to go let him play. And for me right now, it's time for peace. Oh my gosh. You guys, hey, that guy will get me choked up on the way home. I'm going to act tough until I leave. And I appreciate that call. What was that? What was that? That letter? What was that whose name? His name is Ryan. Ryan. Thank you, brother. Thank you for that. If I could wish for anything for anybody, it would be peace between them and their 15 year old self. And if you want to go check it out, everybody listening, Frank Turner's ceasefire, that

song off his latest record is just, I don't know if I said this on the show, but I listened to it and I just started sobbing and sobbing and sobbing and one of my oldest buddies, the drummer in my band in high school, one of my closest friends in the world, he reached out and goes, dude, tell me you've got this new record. It's so amazing. And I was like, yeah. I said this song and he immediately wrote back and said, as soon as I heard that, I thought of you dude.

And just the war I had in my head with my head when I was 15 that has continued on. Yeah, if you're struggling with letting yourself off the hook, your former self off the hook, maybe today's the day. Let your former self go rest in peace. The world's waiting to find out what you're going to write next. Grab a pen and let's get going. Love you guys. Stay in school.

Don't do drugs. Bye. Hey, what's up folks? Big news. The Dr. John Delaney show is now available a full week early in the Ramsey Network app. That's right. You can catch all the real talk of mental health, relationships, emotional health before anyone else.

And the best part? It's completely free! Just click the link in the show notes to download the Ramsey Network app and start watching early today.