The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Cheated and got an STI

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: A wife struggling after discovering her husband’s secrets A woman wondering how to deal with her husband’s new income A mother and son trying to find common ground Next Steps:  📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message.  📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life  📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch    Connect With Our Sponsors: Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.   Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe.  Visit Hallow for a 90-day free trial. Visit Helix Sleep for special offers!  Explore Poncho Outdoors! Get 25% off your order at Thorne.    Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I recently discovered that my husband's been using dating apps, including LGBTQ dating apps. It has led to him sleeping with someone, receiving oral, and he was also just diagnosed with HPB. Jeez, what a mess. I'm sorry. What is up? This is John of the Dr. John Deloney's show, taking your calls from all over planet Earth. On your relationships, your mental and emotional health, your physical, whatever you got going on, I'll sit with you and we'll figure out what's your next right move. Go to John Deloney.com slash ask if you want to be on the show. And please, please take two seconds and hit the subscribe button if you're watching this on YouTube or if you're watching this or if you're listening to this on podcast, whether it's on Spotify, whether it's on Apple, wherever you're listening to this, please just take a second. and subscribe to the show it makes such a huge huge difference all right let's go to san diego

and talk to bianca what's up bianca hi there how's it going it's going what's up what's up um all right so i guess i'm calling today to see your thoughts on whether or not i should stay with my husband after his infidelity and betrayal tell me more Um, okay. So I, uh, I recently discovered that my husband's been using dating apps, including LGBTQ dating apps through our, throughout our entire relationship. Okay. Um, it has led to more recently, um, him sleeping with someone, receiving oral, kissing another. And he was also just diagnosed with HPV. Oh, man.

Yeah. Have you got tested yet? I have. We have a three-year-old and a two-month-old. So I had gotten my test and while I was pregnant, and then we also went to the doctors again, and they said that I'm going to have to wait to get more tests. But as of now, I don't have any symptoms.

I don't have, everything was negative. Yeah, HPV can hang around a while. Geez, what a mess. I'm sorry. Yeah, thank you. What a nightmare. So I usually, almost exclusively, I won't tell somebody you have to leave right now. Yeah.

So I'm asking you, but I don't mind asking questions that might open the doors for you to see your way in or out of a new situation. um tell me about your thoughts about why you would stay um well we we do have our family and i know that i know that he loves me i just i think i lost him somewhere along the way to himself and um let me change this let me change that language your own he left you you didn't lose him yeah and I hate to say this but you're not that powerful

he left you yeah do you get that difference that sounds like a semantics difference but that's a massive psychological shift yeah that's true because one you're

trying to figure out what you did wrong that he would be out hitting the streets while you're creating humans yeah the other is exhaling and realizing I'm powerless and my husband chose while I was making

humans inside my body to go in danger our entire family. Yeah, exactly. I don't know, it's just. I guess it is. I mean, I know it has nothing. to do with me. Like you said, it's just that constant, like, okay, well, what was I missing?

What was I? And I know it wasn't me. And, like, I mean, we're both in counseling. He's fighting for us staying together and to keep our family together. And he's stepped up in many ways. And he's... Do you have all the codes to his phone? Now I do, yes.

Or all the apps off the phone? Yes. everything's gone have you seen his full test results um yeah he's he's negative and everything it's just just that okay so i guess the thing i would tell you is the marriage you had is over it doesn't exist anymore the question is are you going to be involved in building a new one with this man. I think that's why I'm calling because I, I guess I'm scared. You should be.

Yeah. You would be, your innate safety systems would not be working well. No. If you weren't terrified. Yeah. He has a forever STD. You know, exactly. and that's what is terrifying for me too

because he's had it and of course I mean he's my husband or sexually active and it's like I don't know what the future holds and if I do have it and it's dormant and like it's just it's so unfair yes that's a great word

of it has been very very unfair and it's not what I ever imagined to be going through. So what must be true for you to be safe and to make sure you and these two kids are okay? Yes, I agree. No, no, I'm asking you, what must be true? Oh, how do you mean? Like, do you have money?

Do you have a job? No. So he's... You have a place to live? He's our main provider. I... So there was like a little bit... There was financial abuse going on.

He's the main provider and he was trying to hide everything for me. So it was constantly like going back and forth, getting me, you know, joint bank accounts. And so once I finally, you know, confronted him and everything's been coming out, I demanded all of our banking. information and that's when I found out that all of the dating apps and um he was going to trip clubs while he was out of town and he has a drinking problem he's had a drinking problem um so have you pulled your credit report to see what he's taken out on in your name um no he doesn't have that information he 100% has that information

No, I haven't. 100% he has your name and social security number. Which is all it takes to open up a mortgage, credit cards, a line of credit, a helock. It's all it takes. So here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing a woman that fully doesn't know what the bottom of this well is. yeah because you don't believe you have all the information do you um i mean yes no okay that means no i guess i mean he you know he he's told me and gone into detail of everything that i've

shared with you so far um but i feel like i don't know that's like part of like well will that questioning of like is that really everything is that you know this has been going on for so many years we've been together for seven and a half years and married one um so it's like i find it hard to believe that that's it um but you have to understand every every year of your relationship has been a lie a lie yeah I'm hearing somebody who was desperately trying to hang on to an imaginary thing that existed, that never existed. Yeah.

I don't know. I feel like that, and then, like, I also don't know. And I'm not trying to justify. No, no, it's a disorienting, like your whole world, as you knew it is not what it was, right? Yeah, exactly. Your feeling should be all over the place. What you know to be true should feel all over the place. You should be both pissed off at yourself for not seeing it and or knowing something wasn't right and just ignoring.

Like, all of that is true. Yeah. So there's not a roadmap here. Yeah, you know. But you can. ride a roadmap for tomorrow. Yeah, exactly. And that starts with, can I trust you?

I guess that's like question if I would be able to build that trust. Right. And I think, like, of course, like how you said, like my life is slipped upside down. I'm, like, constantly here and constantly there, getting bold and everything. direction and he's, you know, trying really hard. He's going to his individual therapy. We're doing couples therapy. He's two months sober now.

He's going to be going to like an AA or some type of group. But you still haven't exhaled yet. Yeah. You're still waiting for the shoe to drop. Yeah. And you can't build in anything new until you've totally exhaled. yeah so maybe he did man

maybe he cleared the deck and told you everything I can imagine a world where I almost it's it's this is going to sound insane if you've never been in the side of this this hurricane but the longer you can keep wondering if there's something else out there

the longer you can put off having to deal with this is what is true because you can keep some sort of an investigative hack on instead of just looking at the ash that was your life. Yeah, that's where I've been kind of coming to terms with if it's just not necessarily something that I need to let go, but something that, like, I can't keep pushing and pushing and trying to find more,

trying to investigate or discover more, I guess. What else are you going to find? I don't know. I mean, what else would be like, ah, there it is. You know what I mean? Like what? Unless it's like a family member or something that he was with.

Like I, or like a close family friend or so. Like, what else would you keep digging and digging and digging for? I guess it's like if it really, like if there's more people... than the three you know about? Yeah. I guarantee you there is.

Yeah. There's not a doubt in my mind. And there's not a doubt in your mind either. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I've told them that. Yeah. I...

I... I know, like, with everything, that's happened and that's talking and like I said it has nothing to justify or clarify or make anything that he's done okay but I do know I feel like there's childhood trauma that gives context absolutely context is not an excuse but exactly it's it's not an excuse it's a choice that he made repeatedly um and now he's endangered the life and health of your baby and of you. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Thank you. It's definitely not been an easy pill to swallow. I think the place where I would start, if I were you is 60 to 90 to day chunks because the temptation is to make forever declarations

at this moment. Sometimes in the middle of a crisis things go on a week by week or month by month basis. And so my challenge to you is to the best you can clear the fantasy away and what you want so desperately to be true and just choose reality for a brief time and I've only been able to do this

I've only seen people be able to do this with a pen and a paper write down here's what is true and here's what must be true for us to establish or reestablish trust in the next 30 days and then in 30 days we're going to reevaluate or 90 days here's what must be true

no phone no access to the checking account i just simply don't trust you at all you spent this much money at strip clubs you spent this much money on dating apps to go hook up with other people you still haven't been honest with me you don't have tons of dating apps over six years spend your way time in strip clubs and only get caught with the two or three people in your like that's just not how that works. Yeah, exactly. All right. It's just not, I mean,

it just is what it is. But what must be true for the next 60 days and you get to change your mind. Okay. Okay. And then in 60 days, let everybody know.

In 60 days, we're going to come back to this table and I'm going to give you a new roadmap for reestablishing trust. And you have to know that every step along the way he can say, this sucks, I'm out.

I'm not doing that. I'm not giving you my phone. I'm not, I'm not sharing the checking account numbers with you anymore. And that means you're going to have to begin asking questions right now. Very unfair, very unbelievable questions, like about economic security. You're going to have to go out a job, potentially. You're going to have to have some way to support yourself if this happens again and all the data points towards this will happen again.

yeah and then you get 60 days and then you get 60 more days after that and then maybe you get 120 days after that but we're going to slowly if this thing's going to make a run we're going to slowly rebuild trust and while you're writing out on this list like what must be true for me to reestablish trust i need you home no phones in the house no fill in the blank by the way pull your credit report before right right when you get off this call there's three free credit reports Hang on the line and we'll get you the email address to them, but you can pull them and they're free. Kelly, what are they?

Well, you can go to freecreditreport.com. That's it. Freecredit report.com, it'll pull credit reports from all three reporting agencies and you can just get a broad look about any debt that has been pulled in your name and everything you owe. You may say, I'm not interested in rebuilding this thing. It never was what I thought it was. and there's not enough like what I thought was metal is just rusted dust

and I can't rebuild this or all right we're going to rebuild it here's what must be true and maybe he meets 60 days and he meets the next 60 days and then he meets 120 days and all of a sudden you look up

and he's six months sober and you all are making this thing work but I'm not going to tell you yes or no I'm going to tell you the odds are very much stacked against you because you've got somebody

who's quote unquote got caught you've got someone who may or may not have given you an STD may or may not have given your baby an SDD and he still hasn't told you the full truth and you don't have all the answers so it's hard when you're still swimming before you put your feet on the ground

and you got to put your feet on the ground before you stand all the way up and begin to rebuild something so Bianca you call me anytime you want to and I wish you the best I have it in my guts that you would leave if you knew a way to do that financially, relationally, legally.

And so maybe sitting down with the lawyer and asking, what would this even look like? Not that you're going to leave, but just so you have some information because hearing a woman who feels like you've got no options and no moves and I want to reestablish your safety with information and with relationships, you've got to have a couple of women in your life that you call a therapist you reach out to

that will walk with you during this really difficult time. Thanks for the call, sister. Call anytime we can help. We come back. A woman asks how to embrace her husband's newfound well. All right, here we are. We are in the fall. Summer is gone and the days are getting shorter

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What's up, Annie? Hey, John. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Good. I've got a little bit of a probably maybe silly question compared to my other other calls. But...

You can't get any sillier than some of the calls. Like, here, you are all right. What's up? We'll try it. How do I change my relationship with her or attitude towards money and wealth? And the context is my husband is on a very clear two to three year path to, you know, life-changing generational wealth, which is awesome. Like, it's been a big life goal of his. Like, he's going to succeed.

He's going to be awesome. Although I don't know it's only a number until, like, it's real. But, like, it's just not what I want. And it, like, makes me scared of what the future holds. I've just never, ever, ever wanted money like that. And it just, I don't know what to do about it. How long have you been married? Seven years. Seven years.

How, after almost a decade, are you all just having this conversation that your two life goals are this far apart? Well, he, when we got together, he was already independently wealthy. He's already had one business. He was making it. I had a successful career. I was very happy with it. I would call us right now.

We're just happily upper middle class. And I'm happy with it. He's always had this goal. And I'll be honest, but how often does someone succeed at that level? It's not that I didn't believe him. It was like, I can be there for you, if and when.

Like, it doesn't matter if you don't make it. Like, I love you. It doesn't matter if you don't make that much money. I love you. But, like, he's actually going to make it. And, you know, that's, I don't know, how many people did it actually happen to i think that was just my thinking um so why does why does money scare you i just feel like it's like when everything gets so easy because money makes things

easy when it get so easy like how do you still oh sister it doesn't make things easy it gives you options it does not make things easy yeah it gives you tons of options but man yeah it things are complex and complex and on top of complex. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it's just more like, it just, you're right, you're right. Maybe in the day-to-day living, like things feel easy, like you can have convenience, you can have all that type of stuff. And I think I'm trying to protect my kids from that.

I don't want them, like, growing up with that. And he agrees with that. So, like, we're on the same page with that, but, like, I don't know how that looks. I don't know how to keep discipline when it's just everything can be at your fingertips. Like, I just don't know how to set that up and keep us all on. in the right path of what I feel like it's the right path for like our characters and who we are when there's so much access to anything and everything at all at any time okay so this tells me two things either a and maybe both a you already see signs of concern with who your husband is

and this is going to pour gasoline on that or you grew up with the relationship with money where it was those people spent money on that kind of crap and we us we don't do that. That's not who we are. Yeah, so I was probably what people would consider Silver Spoon growing up myself. Private elite high school college paid for by my parents. But we were around much more money than we had. So it was like we kind of were forced to be the responsible ones about the money around the people who were doing.

You all had to go on budget ski trips to Aspen? Yes. No, it was not. You had to share a private jet instead of just take your own. But yes, I mean, we're around, like, celebrities, and, like, that's what the world we grew up in. And that wasn't us. And so I think I just internalized, like, just, we just didn't have that, but all of our friends and all of the people around us did. So I don't know if I just internalized, like, how to be responsible with it or just, like, that's just not me.

I don't know what it was, but it's just, I've never been motivated by money ever. Like, it's just not been my motivator whatsoever. Like, never asked you. or raise a job that I had a very good paid and job at just given right like okay but that doesn't make that doesn't um rich mullins is a famous theologian and you may not even be a person of faith but i love his statement he said um Christians are often as proud of the things they don't have as people of immense wealth are of the things they do have yeah it's the same pathology just on the other side of the barbell yeah and when i was driving an old old old used truck not a cool one but like

an embarrassing one, the number of times someone will pull up next to me in Alexis and I'd be like, I can't believe that, man, that was me. That was my problem. That was my story that I invented about that person, because I don't know if that person gave away $25 million and if that's a used look. I don't know. I don't know their story. Right. Right. The only thing you can control is who you are going to be with or without resources. And so let me talk to you about, talk to me about your husband. What signs are you already seeing that, oh, He is, this is not going to be good. This is going to be given somebody who struggles with alcoholism,

a big case of expensive bourbon. No, I'd say there's two. One is, even at our convenience is just, like, key to him. So, like, a little bit of laziness, I think, that might, like, scares me a little. And then two, this one's not out of control. I know what you think about gambling, but he sports bets on the side.

Like, it's not out of control right now. Okay. Like, I know it's not, but again, when you have access to... Do you all share your money? In effect, yes. We have a shared account. He owns businesses, though, so a lot of it moves in and out of those that I just... Okay, so let's come to it.

Let's be honest as we can, okay? Let's be transparently honest. You have no idea what he does with his money? Not all of it, correct. Okay. So you don't know. And I would not have a career in front of a microphone or off a microphone if people, who thought, no, this particular thing is under control.

Yeah. You have something in your spirit that says, I just don't know. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. It's a question. So here's like, what I would love for you to do is money is just a symptom. Money's just, it's a, it's a, I don't know.

I mean, it's a, it's a tool. The bigger question is beginning to ask yourself, who are we? who is he who am i going to become now right now in this marriage what would happen to us if the job if suddenly they launch an AI app tomorrow that eats your husband's business and it goes away right who knows or if he is the chief shareholder of navidia and he's going to cash out in a couple years you're not going to have a trillion like either way y'all have to still look at each other across the table and say who are we going to be yeah and if you are feeling unsafe as this thing gets bigger and bigger, then you've got to be able to put that on a table. And if your marriage partner is all

in with you, both feet in the boat, then they got to be able to hear that and say, okay, what must be true for us to both feel safe in this deal? Yeah. Is there a fear that he's going to cash out and he's going to cash all the way out of you too? Um, is it a fear specific to him? No. Is it a fear that like that happens. Okay. Have you ever said that to him? No. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. What other fears have you not said to him? Um, that it's more about the kids and how they'll grow up. Okay. I would love for y'all to have that conversation right now. Are you already seeing signs of my kids?

kids aren't going to work. My kids aren't picking up their own clothes. We'll hire somebody. Are you already seeing that? No, but like, not specific with kids, but more like, he's like, let's get live and help. I'm like, I don't want them to have, like, I don't want it myself and I don't want that for them. Okay. And so ask the question beneath the live and help. What would live and help provide for us? For him, convenience and not having to do the work. Okay. And putting it on the table, saying, hey, it's a big value of me that our kids are modeled that even when you have

all the money in the world, you still do your own laundry. How old are your kids? 11 months and 4. Oh, God. I was going to say if they're 16 and 18, y'all can wait for two years and then get whatever you want. But like, okay, y'all are just starting from the floor up. Yeah. Yeah. 11 months and 4. That tells me you're seeing things already that you don't like. I've just heard that line. Maybe you just said it or maybe said it before that like money exacerbates things and I'm just, yeah, I don't know what that means and what that looks like for us, yeah. I'm interested, I'm curious about your fear of, like, because you have an 11-month-old

now, you have a new marriage. What about the, like, inviting another human into the house has made you really concerned? Like, it literally is that, it changes the dynamic of your family. Like why I wouldn't want another human in here where it's like I would be tiptoeing around like I couldn't be myself if there's someone else here. You know, like, so. I'm curious about why you're apprehensive to say that.

Well, I have, I mean, he would have been helping the feet now if you could. I've said no so far. So that one is on the table. Because that's the most extreme. Because that's just the easiest to say It's the most extreme It's the easiest to say no to Does he help with diapers?

He helps when asked He helps with dishes He helps He does trash Yeah Okay And I'm asking that just to ask I'm trying to get to the core of your question

Because I'm hearing a woman Who's increasingly feeling less safe In her own skin Yeah I know And sometimes when people have kids This happened in my house When we had kid one and then kid two, I didn't know what to do.

I felt so useless a amount house. I tried to solve that through work. Now, I was working in education, so I wasn't going to ever make life-changing money. But I was just doubling down on that. But that's what I'm trying to get at. It doesn't sound like that's the case here. No, I don't think, I mean, what do, so even as right now, I had a great career, which chose myself to walk away from the career

to take the care of the kids right now but like even if I wanted to go back like I can't go back I mean like if we're going to have that money but it's silly and stupid so that kind of that has been decided for me too said who?

No one but like who has a who has that money and has a wife to work? I mean like that's just not the vast majority of people I work with and have worked with for my whole career. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

I'm just saying that narrative isn't a true story. That's a story that you've told yourself, and that might be one of your values, and that's great. Yeah. But if increasingly you being out of the workforce and your husband sort of sharing money, but I don't really know how things are working, and I just keep hearing these more zeros

getting added on to the sale of this potential business one day, and you're increasingly feeling less and less and less safe, then I want to put that on the table. And I don't know that going back to work cures it, but it might. Yeah. Or the fear of money may be just where your anxiety dark game landed and you're feeling more and more anxious as you feel less and less control of your own life. Yeah, that's probably more.

Yeah. Because here's the fear. My fear is you solve the money thing. Like, he's like, oh, fine, dude. Maybe he's a great guy like, yeah, we'll put it all in the same account. You can sell my business accounts. That's no problem. And it will just move to the next thing.

Because you're not dealing with a core issue, which is I'm feeling less and less purpose, less and less skills, or I don't know, this is me just spitball in here throwing spaghetti against the wall. But if you quit a high-paying job where you were very successful to be a stay-at-home mom, then your husband comes home and is like, I want to hire some help full-time. I can imagine being like, well, crap, what did I just do? You know what I mean? Like, I'd feel pretty small.

Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. Like, I just don't even know, like, what is my role in that scenario? Like, there's an expendable. Okay, there it is. You said it. Yeah. Yeah. And if you have everything that you can just hire it out.

Yeah. And now you're married to somebody who's got resources to the end of the moon and back. And even your language, he's going to make a lot of money. I would love, if it's safe, I would love for you to be able to sit at the table and say, hey, with all of these resources that are coming our way, with you wanting to hire help that I quit my job to really take on, if we're going to hire private tutors and private schools and, like, I'm beginning to feel expendable in my own house. I don't feel like I'm going to have a purpose here So have the conversation now Before the big check comes It's much easier to have this conversation philosophically

When there's so much more on the table Before all that money starts coming in Thanks for the call And if you hey if you just get a ton of money You don't know what to do with it Hang on the line I'll get you my Venmo And you can just send it this way

I would give some to Kelly She's so old She's in heaven, Mo, she's not worth I'll write her a check I'll cut her a check That would probably be good And she can put under her mattress With the rest of her coins

And her tea bills Thank you so much for the call You are awesome We come back A mother and a son Asked for help On how to agree On watching horror movies

In a faith-based home We talk a lot on this show About boundaries You know emotional boundaries relational, financial, but there's one boundary that almost nobody talks about. Boundaries in your digital life. Right now, your personal information, like your phone number, your address, even where your kids go to school, sitting on countless gnarly websites that you have never heard of. And you didn't give them permission to have that information, but it's out there. And let's

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And every few months, they send you a report showing you exactly what they did. Taking control of your digital life is about boundaries and it's about peace. So go to join deleteme.com slash deloney to save 20% off so that you can have digital boundaries and digital peace. That's join delete me.com slash deloni. All right, let's go out to Penny in Denver, Colorado. Hey, Penny, what's up? Hi, Dr. John. How are you?

I'm doing great. All right, I'm going to bring on Logan here. Is Logan your son, Penny? Yes, Logan is my son. How old is he? 17. Oh, this is going to be fantastic. All right, I'm going to bring on Logan here.

Logan, you there? Yeah, I'm here. Hey, John. All right. Dude, you sound like you're 36. That's fantastic. I talked like this until I was like 28. That's great, man.

All right, so we got Penny and Logan. What's up, everybody? Penny, you go first. How can I help? Okay, well, I just want to throw out there that I've been listening since you started. and so Logan's been raised on Dr. John in a sense. Oh, I'm sorry, Logan. I'm sorry, man.

So this is my question, and he was actually the one that suggested we were having a conflict around horror, and he was the one that actually suggested that I gave you a call because he said, well, Dr. John listened to crazy music and talk horror movies. Maybe you should call him. Logan, I am profoundly not well. I don't know why you would call me any, but all right, let's do this. All right, so the question is, is what are your thoughts and suggestions on how to support our son's interests and passions at 17 while keeping him safe and holding true to our values and beliefs in this case when it comes to horror movies, violent video games, and edgy are questionable music? Ah, okay.

Man, Logan, why'd you do this to me, man? All right, so Penny, tell me, give me the backstory here. Okay, so we are a faith-based family, and I was lucky enough to grow up in a very strict Christian home. Are you saying lucky facetiously, or are you saying lucky like you really feel lucky? It was both. It was definitely both, but, I mean, we didn't celebrate Halloween. There was No secular music in the house

There was There was no Stephen Spielberg In the house So there was Oh dang no Harry Potter I'm assuming huh Definitely no Harry Potter I mean I'm

That was past my time And so that was the That's where I've That's my background And so We have this little boy Who began showing interest In darker things

probably starting at the age of three, started with pirate, and then it was skeletons and skulls and all the Egyptology things, and it's just kind of moved on from there. And so my husband and I have tried. We've worked really hard to try to meet him in the middle, but it's still very uncomfortable, and it's really, really hard to navigate what's okay and what's not okay without making Logan feel like he is he's being dismissed or his interests are not being valued or

yeah and then at the same time some of it really is really concerning stuff but now we're at 17 and so he's almost an adult and how do we continue to have these conversations we do a lot of like looking up reviews

and I have him read the reviews before he does them and we make sure that you know, certain movies are maybe not overly sexualized or there's not child possession of demons and things like that, but it's still, it's still a conflict, and it's been a conflict for years with music, with video games, and with horror. So, Penny, before I talk to Logan, can I just say this? You are maybe the most thoughtful parent I've ever heard. speak on this topic before meaning um it's easy to be dismissive and it's me it's easy to um

lack empathy just on basic human curiosity especially with young folks and it's also really um humbling for a parent to say this is how i was raised and these are my values and maybe i'm not seeing the whole picture here but I do feel strongly about something and almost I've never heard somebody articulate like you just did which is you don't want to dismiss Logan and the things he's into and the things he finds exciting or interesting at the same time there's something in your guts that says like I don't know why someone would put this in their in their mind so high five to you good for you all right Logan tell me about you brother hey John yeah um so you know I've been an I have a horror fan for a while.

You know, it's always been like, there was only like a really short period where I was a kid for the stuff actually scared me and then I started finding it cool more than scary. Okay. And it's just, you know,

it's been like, and especially, you know, with like, I'm metal heads, you know, all the way. Love heavy metal. And it's just been, I don't know,

it's something that's, you know, been more difficult to try to explain why I find this stuff interesting. Okay. When you say, when you say,

doesn't scare you anymore and now it's just cool what's cool um like i find instead of like you know let's say you're watching a war movie and there's some creepy monster crawling down the hallway and instead of being like oh you know i don't like that that's you know scary or like getting at the scare factor look into it look you know like i like it's design i like how it moves it's really cool that's a really cool idea for a monster i never thought about it being you know you know looking like that or i just love the way it looks the way you know the thought that went into it because the monster itself, I think, is interesting. Tell me about your love of aggressive music.

I don't know. I've always liked, like, power metal. It's in my favorite genre of metal. I mean, I like that four. Top three favorite bands, go. Oh, let's see, your Sabaton, Power Wolf, and Iris. Penny, he's a lost cause. I'm sorry to tell you.

These bands are just not good. I'm just kidding, Logan, just kidding. Yeah, it's not the content. They're just not good bands, but anyway, I'm just playing. Logan, I'm messing with you. So, um, trying to think of a, of an avenue here. Often when,

here's been my experience. I grew up in a strict faith-based home, okay? and I remember watching a scary movie at some point and my dad, the homicide detective, I remember him saying, I can't imagine somebody watching that for entertainment. And he said that from a place that he saw whatever movie was on, happened to be on.

He saw that in real life. And so I remember being like, oh gosh, yeah, you're right. And that's like this, what you're talking about. about like oh dude i can't believe how they pulled that off especially when it comes to monsters or gore like it was a it was a this sounds so dorky like there was an artistic kind of i want to see how then why they did that but when i begin to peel back like why am i two parents are still married i've got good friends i've got good community why on christmas day every christmas for 16 straight years i went to downtown houston and was part of a punk rock show and i could have been with

my family around the fire right and when i we didn't have a fire but when i when i dug into it that form of extreme stuff was the only place where i had any sort of feeling alive and i didn't find it in other places i didn't even find it i did find it in some competitive sports but i remember being i was a texas high school football player dude there'd be like seven thousand people watching every one of our games but i'd watch my my fellow teammates like banging their heads on lockers before the game I remember being like

dude we're playing a game what are we all doing right but that was a place where I fell alive so get beneath the artistic and like the explanation what does this stuff do inside your chest I'm interested in that and maybe your experience is different than mine

uh like could you like kind of explain would you mean a little more where else do you feel alive than when the music is pulsing on a movie and you know a bad guy's coming and you know you've you've somebody texted you and said do this one or you read on the internet like hey this one is super gory or this one's really crazy where else do you feel alive outside of that environment or at a metal show um so i'm also a extremely like it is uh my main hobby is magic the gathering okay um so i play that that's you know every you know i love love playing that with just about anyone okay um i'll just about anyone, you know, just because I love it so much. But that's definitely a place.

Definitely, you know, with, like, certain friends. And, yeah, those are like, and then, yeah, I would say those are mostly the main places. So this idea, like, you love fantasy and escapism and new worlds and new creations and all that. Mm-hmm. Okay. And mom, what about that, when you say it really makes you uncomfortable? What is it, what about it makes you uncomfortable? Um, I think the things that make me feel uncomfortable are desensitization to what's, like, to true horror and to true suffering.

Sure. Logan definitely struggles with being encountered with real suffering and will actively avoid that, whether that's on a news prop program or something like that. that I've observed that that makes him very uncomfortable. And so my husband and I, we don't understand the inconsistency of being able to sit with something that can be so grotesque on the screen, but having such a hard time sitting with human suffering around him. So that's one thing that makes me feel uncomfortable. I think often there's horror for the sake of horror,

and there is no, like, we talk with Logan a lot about context. Like, there needs to be context to what you're watching. So is there, what is the storyline? How is the story arc? How are the characters developed? One thing we did do is you watched the whole Stranger Things series together. And I think both of us, And we read Harry Potter together.

That was a little earlier, but, like, I didn't read Harry Potter. There's all this hype around Harry Potter, and then I read it. And I would say our family is an avid Harry Potter family. Sure. And we were able to, you know, good and evil, clearly to find also, you know, flawed characters, how they grew, how they changed. So I think that I struggle with seeing. the story arc in some of these movies and video games understanding redemption or lack of redemption

there's no redemptive value to it I know that there is some but I struggle with finding it more like I know that there's there you know there are some great authors Ted Decker and Big Pretty and they are able to shine a light on darkness and they're able to illuminate that and help people understand the difference between direct and light yeah I mean in some case yeah I get that in some cases

But, and again, that's going to, like, they're trying to attempt to arc you back to a particular faith belief, right? But, like, I get what you're saying. Here's the impasse you all are going to find yourself. Logan, when you turn 18? Next July. Okay. And are you going to school? Are you in a senior right now?

I'm a junior, and I do homeschool. Oh, so you homeschool. So when do you go to college? Are you going to college? I'm not entirely sure yet. I'm still deciding that. Okay. here's the world you find yourself in

and I'll tell you the more you fight this the more unnecessary chaos and frustration and rage you're going to bring to your life and to your parents fortunately or unfortunately I'll go with fortunately but you live in their house and so when you live in somebody's house

you say and you're 17 you're not even 18 yet so you have to but I'm going to live here which means I'm going to be subject to the rules. I work at this place, which means I got to dress a certain way, not super great, but sort of. I got to, like, sort of be on time, right? Like, I, I, I subject myself to this set of rules so I get the benefits of a paycheck, right? That is the worst thing a 17 year old can hear from an old man like me, but that's just the truth. And if you choose to go to trade school after

that and live two more years at mom's house, rent free, it will come with whatever crazy restrictions they choose to put on you and so there's just a metabolizing of that like you're right if y'all don't want me watching x or watching why i i i don't like it but i get it because this is your house and the more you can make peace with that um quite honestly this you're going to have more peace in your life um on the other side of it penny i will tell you there's a natural i would love to look for outlets, because Logan sounds like a kid, like a young man who is interested in... Logan, are you artistic? I'm talking to you like you're not here.

Are you into art and art? Tell me about that. A little bit. On and off. I mean, I used to be a lot more, and then, I don't know, I just never, like, practiced all that much. Okay. Tell me about fantasy stuff.

Like, what is it about fantasy that you love, the escapism? I don't know. It was like... Fantasy is like, I don't know, it all scratches an itch for me. Like, it's not even like about, like, getting out of my own world or whatever. It's just that I enjoy the setting and the characters and, like, the, you know, story arcs that fantasy follows. Sure. So much.

And I'm not entirely sure why. Like, you know, I love Lord of the Rings. I love almost all of Brandon Sanderson stuff. Um, love CS Lewis. If you could see the nerds in the booth back here pumping their fists, dude, they're all cheering. back here, by the way. So, Penny, if nothing else, I work with a group of guys

who are atomic nerds and they're great men that I would trust my kids with. They've all grown up well. There's one guy in the booth back here that I wouldn't trust with my kid, but other than that, everybody's doing pretty good.

But, like, so Logan, I want to honor that. I think that's awesome. I think that's cool. My challenge to you would be, A, looking for places where you can plug into real people. That's why, like, I think the,

what is it, Magic the Gavis? I wouldn't know a magic the gathering card if somebody put in front of me but every time I hear about co-workers of mine or friends of mine whatever playing I love it because they get together other people to run a table. Yeah. I personally am completely out on chaotic first person shooter games unless you're going to head to the military and become a drone operator. And the connection, the connective tissue there is just not, it's not healthy.

And I can do a whole other thing about that, but we don't need to bore you with that right now. And now they're all booing me back there in the booth. They're like, boo. And I only, at the moment, I only have one. It was one game. That was a hard one battle, but I got it at the end. And I've played to that game very many times, but I only just have the one game at the moment. Okay.

I guess the best thing I could encourage you guys to do is to continue these conversations, Penny. and encourage you in your... Because you're having the right conversations and I love the fact that you're like, fine, we're all going to read Harry Potter together and you're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And, Logan, I hope that you will honor your parents when they say like, hey, I'm making up movies here.

Silence of the Lambs is a masterpiece and it's pretty dark and there's some redemption at the end and that's different. then Beastmaster 19 return of the slaughter fest right like there's just there's differences there right and people can go through their whole life with neither of those films in their minds but there is something to be said for one of those is just pure non-redemptive garbage and one of those is maybe not good for the soul but there is a darkness and a an arc to it like you said penny so i guess where i get concerned for both of you is if you both give up on each other

I don't want to be in the position to say or I'll just say I don't want I'm not going to be in the position to say these movies are okay these movies are not okay I will tell you that Logan's about to be 18 and your influence on him I hope lasts beyond 18

and any sort of lasting influence has to shift from I control you because legally you can't do anything in this house to like you've been doing hey let's read the reviews let's talk about that what about this even is appetizing or appealing or i'm going to watch the first 15 minutes of this with me and you got to explain why this is even a thing um and so because we're going to shift and logan it's you choosing which is a nutty thing to ask a 17 year old you choosing to believe even when it doesn't feel like it my mom and dad

care about my mind and my spirit and dude when you get some images in your head they never leave and this massive desensitization that's happened across our culture dude there will be hell to pay for it there's no question about it we're paying it right now everything seems to be not real when we see it through a screen and there's a lot of real live hurt and pain going on in the world that we just don't feel anymore because it's all melted away on the screen so i'd say this keep struggling with this thing together and penny that's not an easy answer and logan an easy answer but the struggle tells me y'all are still engaging in relationship and you're still going back and forth and sometimes penny you're going to go fine and sometimes Logan you're

going to have to say i don't like it but i trust my mom and dad that they love me and they're trying to keep garbage out of my spirit man so best of luck to you good luck and if you solve that let me know actually you won't solve it so you don't have to let me know thank you so much for the call show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Most of us are guilty of oversharing with the wrong person at one time or another, or maybe you're like me, and you're just a bit of an overshare all the time. Let's be honest, our entire culture is based on oversharing, and everyone is giving everyone else mental health advice all of the time. Some of it may be good, but a ton of the advice floating around is nonsense. And as fun as it can be to talk about everyday stuff with

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All right, Kelly, am I the problem? All right, this is from Jessica in Charleston, South Carolina. Awesome. She writes, I'm 35. I have three young boys, five, six, and seven. They're very close in age, and they're just boys. They fight and wrestle, play with swords, play ninja, pirate, and tumble around all the time. They're not fighting like they hate one another.

They love play fighting and rolling around. They're loud. They're filthy most of the time. They rarely wear shoes. outside. You get the picture. They're also polite and they do well in school and they make friends easily. But I'm starting to see a trend of moms not inviting my boys to things because we quote unquote can't handle all three or only inviting one boy or saying that my boys are just too wild. Am I hurting them socially by allowing them to have fun with wrestling and fighting

or am I trying to befriend the wrong moms? Oh, great question. I mean, this is hard to answer without knowing them because I know there's a context there, but in the way she wrote that email, she, I hear a mom who is loving the life she's creating for her rambunctious wild boys. And I guess I want to honor that. And I don't ever want someone to quash the spirit of somebody. At the same time, wrestling in rambunctiousness and fighting has a context. equally important when you're raising young boys is what my wife is kindly termed time and place which is i fully understand that you and hank need to crash into each other and for some reason you have to make those jokes that i just don't think are funny but you all seem to think they're

hilarious but he also needs to learn there's a time and place that you don't do that at a dinner table you don't do that at a friend's house when you walk into somebody's house you take his shoes off and you say yes ma'am and no ma'am and you're shaking like so um that may be the missing link here which is um there's a fine line between celebrating the rambunctiousness that is young boys and being feral and there's a fine line between being respectful and and being um what's the right word uh the words just left my head um being compliant like i'm going to squash who i am to make you happy, right? And so I guess I need more context with those boys, but hopefully that framework helps. What do you think? I understand. And I mean, in her friend's defense, probably taking all

three of them would be a lot. Well, you know what? That's a good point. Like, as kids get older, there is, they're going to have, like, the eight-year-old's going to have, there's a big difference between six and eight and eight and ten, then there is four and six, right? So that is going to happen more and more and more as they get older. And you'll have a younger son who's big brother is just starting to leave and go to other stuff and he's going to get mad and upset what that's just that's life right there so there you're exactly right on yeah i think someone expecting to take all three of your children whether they're perfect little angels or you know rambunctious boys is a lot so you invite them over or because they also do need to learn to play with other

other children and abide by the rules at that person's house but when they're at your house let them write yeah yeah i don't think that's the time in place right yeah that's the time in place yeah And we all know snooty other parents who are like, and so, no, if somebody's looking down their nose at your child or more specifically at you, they're opting out. If somebody's calling out behaviors and actions and your own kids that drive you crazy that you know is a problem, then you've got to deal with those.

Right, or if they're calling out bullying or your child's roughhousing went too far. Right. They're breaking stuff in my house. Yeah, they're hurting my child. Then that's a different thing. My mom got many of those phone calls from neighborhood mothers growing up. So gosh, so many of them.

And it's important to learn time and place. Right. So good call. Yeah, there's not really, am I the problem here on this one? I need more context to really be able to make a call. But I do love the question. And every parent has some time for reflection. And the more parents reflect, man, the better we are all going to be.

Thank you so much for the calls. Love you guys. Stay out of trouble. Bye.