The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Doesn’t Believe My Mental Illness Is Real

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A wife struggling with her husband’s disbelief in her mental illnesses - A husband wondering how to support his wife who’s coping with moving away from family - A woman unsure if she’s ready to marry the man she’s dating Lyrics of the Day: "Carry on Wayward Son" - Kansas Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policyb

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My husband doesn't believe in mental illness. My ACEs score is a nine. Whoa! You could do probably like an entire series just on my life. Your husband actually sounds like a nice guy. He's amazing. Okay, and he's an idiot.

And those two things can be true at the same time. Good morning, good afternoon, good night, whatever's going on in your world. I'm so glad that you've joined us on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm John, and we are here for one reason. Help you have a better life, better marriage. Help you get along with your kids a little bit better. Help you figure out what's going on in this wackadoo world. Get some questions, some honest answers about your mental health and what's going on.

Whatever's going on in your life, we're here to help. And I'm so grateful that you've joined us. And I'm becoming overwhelmed by the countless letters and notes and direct messages. All just the positive things people are doing to change their life. Little bitty things here and there, picking up from the show. So thank you so much for being with us. I'm so grateful. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz. 1-844-693-3291.

And it makes all the difference in the world. Super weird, but it makes all the difference in the world. If you will just hit the subscribe button. If if you listen to this on apple podcast or spotify podcast if you will subscribe to the show youtube subscribe to the show um leave great killer five-star reviews all that stuff helps so much helps all across the board um helps put this show in front of people who have never heard of it whose marriages are falling apart whose kids are bonkerskers, who are struggling with depression, anxiety, whatever, and they would never have known about the show otherwise. And we got it in front of them just because you took it one second to hit subscribe.

So thank you so, so much to everybody who's doing that. It means the world. Let's go out to Sadie in Yorktown. Sadie, what's up, Sadie? Hello. How we doing? I'm good. How are you? We are rocking on to the break of dawn Sadie

having a party oh yeah oh yeah what's up um so first of all thank you for taking my call of course um I've had a pretty hard year um and your podcast and your show has I watch every day and it's giving me some awesome tips for dealing with my childhood trauma and some things I struggle with. And so I had a question for you that I think you can help me with. Well, first of all, I'm sorry if I had a bum year. And the cool thing is we got nine more months to go so we can turn this ship around, right? And thanks for being with us, man. It means the world to me.

Thank you. So let's figure it out. Let's do it. What's up? Okay. So my question is, my husband doesn't believe in mental illness. I have been clinically diagnosed with OCD and ADHD. Welcome to the gang. I know that I'm unmedicated for. um yeah trying to navigate that um I was diagnosed as an adult after I have my children um and I've also suffered through bouts of depression um how do I get him to understand these are very real for me in effect my day-to-day life. Even if I'm in agreement that I don't, not that I don't believe in mental illness, I don't think I'm broken. A little bit of background, my ACEs score is a nine. Whoa. Yeah. So a lot of childhood trauma. A nine? A nine. Yes, sir. God almighty. My husband is a zero. And we've been together since we were 15 and 17.

So I think there's been some times for him where he's seen me as what he would think in his mind is quote unquote normal. And now I'm 29 and a lot of this stuff is resurfacing. Part of my bummy year is I lost my dad unexpectedly last June. I'm 29 and a lot of this stuff is resurfacing. Um, part of my bummy year is I lost my dad unexpectedly last June. Um, he had been an addict my entire life, um, and got clean 10 years ago, went back to college, um, got a degree in addictions counseling, started a program here in our hometown where he helped hundreds of families and he passed away in June from a accidental fentanyl poisoning. Did he have a relapse? Yes.

And at first it's been sort of trudging through all of that, that being in denial at first and now it's been about nine months and it's saying, yeah, we're looking back at all of that, that being in denial at first, and now it's been about nine months and it's saying, yeah, we're looking back at all of this. And he had relapsed and it's heartbreaking because I think he felt like he was the strong person leading everybody and he's died. And what's happened is a lot of my own trauma has resurfaced and affected me, but I'm also seeing a lot of him and me. Yeah.

And how old are your kids? They are two and me. Yeah. And being the strong person. They are two and four. Yeah. And I would expect, and I don't say this to freak you out, I say this just to be ready, as your body begins to remember those moments, as your kids hit those milestones,

expect your body to try to solve that again because it missed out the first time around and it your body to try to solve that again because it missed out the first time around and it's going to try to solve it again now that you're taller and you have bigger muscles, right? Yep. Yep. And that's what I tell my husband is, Dr. John always says, like, the body doesn't forget.

Yeah, yeah. Especially not with a nine. Yeah. There's so, so much here. Oh, you could do probably like an entire series just on my life well here's the thing so um your husband actually sounds like a nice he's a nice guy he's amazing okay and he's an idiot and those two things can be true at the same time right okay yeah and tell him that i said that that's fine tell him he sounds wonderful and he's a moron the second thing is you would agree right the second thing is two things can be true at the same time um that your dad was absolutely in

no shape or fashion the dad that he should have been for you. And that guy loved you through the foggy lens of addiction. Yeah. Right? He loved his baby girl. Yeah. And that's something that I didn't realize until he passed away. That's right. And that's hard because there's unresolved stuff there.

That's right. And you'll never be able to have the conversations. That's right. You can't. You can't. Yes. And so one of the devastating moments of grief is being able to have those conversations with the ether.

Yeah. And even if you'd had him, you know this, Sadie, he wouldn't have heard him. Right? Yeah. And so all that to say is both of those things are true at the same time. Here's something else that's true. OCD and ADHD are very, very real. And they can't be the excuse by which our life, the lives of those who love us and interact with us that we've chosen to be in relationship with have to suffer.

Both of those are true also. Okay. So you're holding this paradox and it's it's messy and those who love people who struggle with addiction those who struggle with mental health challenges those who are married to amazing people whose lives were pretty greased um moving forward pretty pretty straightforward lives um the the paradox the two sides of that barbell are just the weight is really heavy. Yeah. Is that fair?

Yes. And I want to put it down. Yeah. There you go. Okay. Um, I'm going to walk through a couple of things cause you and I, like,

um, back when I was in the middle of all this, those were my two, two of my main clinical stamps. Okay. ADHD and OCD. Okay. Um, and interestingly i never my anxiety was always

an outflow of those things okay yes um if you use and i i i'm speaking to you and i'm also talking to the audience okay so you may say that's not me at all this is what i'm saying but i'm speaking generally if you use adhd and ocd as excuses for not being a present or direct or connected spouse your husband's gonna have to go to war with adhd and ocd yeah because some some people um when things are uncomfortable or they're ugly or they're not the way they should be, they go to war with reality. It's how a million people plus died of COVID and you still have people saying, that's not real. Was the response sideways? Of course. Was there all the nonsense with vaccines and masks? Yes. Oh, is COVID super real? Yes.

Right? And a whole swath of our country didn't want to believe that. So they just went to war with reality. Yeah. If I'm married to someone who I love deeply and I've been with her for half of her life or more, and then she tells me there's this thing that keeps her from being on time,

from paying attention to me, to being able to put her phone down, to staying connected, to want to be intimate. I have to go to war against those things because I can't go to war against her because I love her too much. And so it does injustice to ADHD and OCD. It does injustice to the marriage.

It does injustice to the people you love. And it does injustice to you to use those things as excuses. And so you've heard me say this a lot. Those are simply a context, not an excuse. Sure. They're just the, like I wear sunglasses and the world looks dark. It's not dark.

The sun's shining. I mean, it just looks darker to me. So I have to be okay with that. I have to just know that's just the way I see the world and experience the world. The second thing is when you have OCD and ADHD, especially, we often want to make a show of it. Okay. So here's an example in my house.

I checked the locks three or four times before I go to bed. I could make a big announcement. I have for 30 years. I have forever. I could make a huge announcement. Well, my OCD is making me get up and go to, I just don't. I just say, he'll be right back.

Or I just say, I'm going to run to the basement real quick. And I'm pretty sure my wife knows what I'm doing, but maybe she has no idea. And maybe after all these years, she doesn't know. I'm not making an announcement about it. I'm just going along with the things

that I got going on. When my mind is looping and racing and I'm having the same conversation, the same fight, the same loop-de-loop-de-loop-de-loop, and I know you know what I'm talking about with that. Oh, yeah. I don't announce to the house, my OCD is real bad right now. I have taken ownership of it and say, I'm choosing to engage in these strange one-sided conversations that I would

never have in real life. Right. And so I'm trying to communicate ownership, but I don't go around the house making proclamations about these things. Also, it's my responsibility. It's our responsibility. It's your responsibility,

whether therapy, exercise and nutrition, whether medication, it's our responsibility to do the work way upstream so that the people we love and who interact with us aren't left trying to hold together the frayed edges of the tapestry of our relationship. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes. So when you have OCD and ADHD, what are a couple of things that drive your husband bananas?

I wouldn't say it really drives him crazy. I guess that I would say since my dad passed, I would describe it as like a flare up, like the anxiety. So he wants me to come to him and just say, like, tell me when you're feeling something, because I was raised in a house where I wasn't hurt. So I internalize a lot. I'm at an age and a point in my marriage. We've been married almost seven years where I, it's like, I'm just,

it's like I'm, my dad died and I didn't realize all these things before that are not flaws in me necessarily, but just things like hiding. Like when I was little, I would physically hide a lot. Yep. And now I've tried to describe to my husband, he's trying to figure out like, what's going on with you or why are you doing this? And I'm trying to explain to him, like, I feel like I'm hiding in different ways. So what's a way, so you know that you're someone who retreats. What is a way that you and him,

that you can stop keeping secrets for someone with an ACE score of a nine, secrets will kill you. Yeah. And secrets, and i'm thinking secrets secret actions secret crushes secret thoughts secret hey i had two more drinks last night than you know about like secrets across the board um and he's gonna feel like and and again in the same way that i would tell him if he was on the phone, don't tell her how to feel.

He's going to feel like he is not enough of a husband. He's not trustworthy enough. He's not safe enough for his wife to feel safe with him. Yes. And that's mainly why I called in because he is so amazing. And he takes on the brunt of that. And it's me trying to explain to him, not using it as an excuse necessarily, but I want to undo these things as well. He's just seen me have points of really high success before children. Like I went back to college as an older person. I had both my boys during finals weeks. I was a straight A student. And it's's like then he's seen very low lows

and he's trying to figure out what he can do and I'm like you can't do anything you're the daughter of someone who struggled with addiction you're a performer you could pass your bar exam and have birth to a kid and probably finish the marathon you've been training for you can perform.

You can't be with. Because being with- What's funny is my dad and his whole entire family are literal musicians and performers and actors and- That's right. Yes. So you can perform all day. And for someone like your husband, that performance looks like accomplishment.

It's not for you. It's defense. Yeah. Yes. And so pretend. That's right. And it drives me crazy. Well, you've got to stop declaring civil war with Sadie.

Yeah. You don't have things to undo. You've got, when you talk about undoing, think about a knot in a rope and you're pulling so hard to try to undo that knot. Your job is to make peace. Open your hands up. There's a knot in the rope. We're moving on down the rope.

We're moving on down. You cannot undo your, the abuse that happened to you as a kid. You can't unwind that. You can't unwind the things that your dad should have freaking said to you to your his baby girl that he never said and the more energy you spend trying to unknot things that can't be undone your your your kids your husband everybody sees you flexing and pulling and pulling and flexing and they don't know what it is and so they're going to create stories that it's their

fault yeah or that their mom's nuts. Yeah. And that's what hurts me because I do want to let go. I don't know how. Let me tell you, there is one way and it's the most annoying answer I could possibly give you. And as of someone who struggles in very similar areas as you, I hate to tell you this. Okay. Okay.

You have to, have to, have to come up with a way, a language between you and your husband that you can have some level of vulnerability. And it's going to be something that you have to practice. Yeah. Whether that's a spiral notebook that y'all share because you can't say it out loud and you're just going to write it down. Whether that's a weekly meeting that you have typed out that you hand him across a table and he reads it.

And it could be everything from, I wanted to hide when you came home hot from work the other day. We've been having sex like this and I don't like it anymore. We haven't been having sex and I miss you. Is it me? Do you think I'm too ugly? Or am I too old? Or whatever. Whatever thoughts are going through your head, you've got to figure out a way that you can safely practice

bringing him into that conversation yeah and my promise to you is it's going to feel like somebody like you're standing naked on the on a street corner like the whole you're so exposed that every nerve in your body is going to tell you cover up cover up cover up and you have to give him the opportunity to peacefully engage with you and i'm going to tell you right now he's going to say the wrong stuff he's going to say stupid stuff oh i know we've been together long enough i know that it's just hard for me because we have been together for since i was 15 old. And he's the one person that I feel safe enough with. I don't think anybody has ever seen me. And so I think that's just been sort of hard to navigate how to do that. And he's the only person I feel safe enough to do that with.

Okay. Your second responsibility you're going to have is to get a couple of girlfriends that you can begin practicing that with too okay and it's gonna again feel scary um i i had a couple of buddies about a decade ago guys that we just drank beer and ate nachos and hung out all the time and watched fights and i actually took the step and again these are guys i'd known for years and so it wasn't super weird it's not like I just met somebody. But I told them, I've got to start getting some guys I can be honest around. And I think my marriage is falling apart. Or I think I'm not a good dad. And they would give me their bro wisdom.

Some of it was incredible. Some of it was just moronic. And that's fine. The important thing was not their wisdom was not their uh insights the important thing was i said it out loud in a group of people that i knew were still gonna be right or die with me anyway yeah right and so yeah that's the healing what you have to here here's and here's the, for the neuroscience nerds out there, here's what we're doing. We're teaching our body that the things that got us killed as a kid are the

things that are going to keep, we're teaching our body that we're safe now. We weren't safe then. Your dad was not a safe place. Wherever mom happened to be was not safe. The person who sexually abused you was not safe Your husband is Yes, these two women are and what we're going to do is we're going to practice

Setting these things down And when you feel yourself taking them up, we're just going to write that down i'm gonna write that down and husband Here's the deal. I'm gonna practice Saying things to you and honestly if you want to have him give me a call i'd love to talk to him because i know it's hard on his side too oh yeah i'd love to talk to him i can't imagine yeah no he will he'd definitely love to call him we are big fan of dave and you and yeah have him give me a call um he's gonna have to work really hard to not take all this personally. Yeah.

Because every time you hold a secret, he... That's what he does. I know he does. I know. I know. Every time you hold a secret and he blames himself for not being a husband enough or for not being, creating a safe enough space, right? And so he's going to have to also have the courage while you're saying your needs, he's

going to have to say have the courage while you're saying your needs, he's going to have to say his too. Yes. And you're going to have to hear those as well, right? Yep. OCD and anxiety, these things have a way of the great, the great way paths out of this is, um, one of the great paths out is serving other people, helping other people meet their needs. And when someone starts putting needs, your first thoughts are, well, what about me? What about me? That's just the, that's just your racing mind talking.

It's nonsense. Great gift can be, let me help you meet your needs. Um, but again, I want to practice this. I want you all to practice, practice, practice, figure it out, practice. We're going to put a breakfast on the calendar. We're going to put a lunch on the calendar. I'm going to put a spiral notebook on your pillow and you put it back on my pillow. I'm just going to write some of these things down. Or I can just tell you 15 minutes at night before we go to bed or when we wake up in the morning, I'm going to tell you these things.

And they're going to come in waves. There's going to be some days when everything's wonderful. There's going to be waves that come through and everything is a disaster. But let me say this and I hope this finds its way into your heart a little bit. Your dad wasn't well. Your dad was sick. Your dad wasn't well. Your dad was sick. Your dad struggled hard. And I think at the end,

your dad loved his little girl. And as long as you live, you'll never understand the demons he was fighting. Those that told him the only way to get through today is more pills. Whew. Open your hands to that.

Before you go to bed tonight, I want you to write a letter in a notebook with a pen to seven-year-old Sadie. Tell her you're sorry you've been blaming her for so much. You've been giving her so much to carry. And it's time for her to go play with her friends like seven-year-olds are supposed to do. I want you to tell that seven-year-old Sadie that you love her. Dad loved her. It's time for her to stop defending you. I'll be with you every step of the way, Sadie. Thanks for your call. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy. Own your past, change your future. You may already have it, but I'm going to send you a copy of it anyway, and you and your husband can read it together. We can start this new journey

of practicing, teaching our body. You weren't okay then. We're okay now. We'll be right back. All right, we are back. We're going to go out to Chris in Mexico City. ¿Cómo estás, Chris? What are we doing? Hey, Dr. John.

How are you? I am doing great, man. How are you? Doing good. Doing good. Fantastic, man. So what's up? Calling in from Mexico City.

What's up, dude? Yeah, absolutely. So me and my wife have been married for a short time now. How long? So about six months. Okay. Yep. So I'm American.

She's Mexican. Okay. So we dated for a while. We got married. I moved here so that immigration could be faster. Okay. And because it was just taking a long time so after that we're here and immigration is actually going a lot quicker

than we expected so when you got married was the plan always y'all were going to live in the states? yeah how old is she? so we're basically from day one she is 20 how old are you?

21 where'd y'all meet? we just met online We just met online Where was your first Where was your first meet up? In Mexico Okay

So you met her online Y'all had a couple of times together Did you move down before you were married? Or did y'all get married and then move down? So I moved down maybe a couple weeks before But not really more like i mean i was just living together but like in separate rooms and stuff okay so um cool so how long have y'all lived in mexico together now um about yeah basically six months okay basically you guys thought it's gonna be a couple years and all of a sudden it's like oh it's time to. Well, maybe a year or a year and a half.

Yeah. And so now we're kind of like, oh, what the heck? And she really struggles with it because she's really close to their family. Yeah. Absolutely. Like she even like, she'll get emotional if like she doesn't see him for like a week or like maybe five days. She'll start like crying and just be really sad. I want to see him again.

So I kind of knew this day was always coming. It would be really hard, but now it's kind of sooner, and I don't know how to support her. I think first, getting out of your head, that this is going to be a day. Yeah. This is going to be a long, long, long time. Okay?

She's going to be grieving a her family her culture the language the food the smells the the trap of everything about her life is about to change and she's 20 she's still a kid yeah and um what i would tell you is you can't be upset that she's feeling drawing drawn to her family over this new life that she had imagined and now suddenly staring her in the face. I would honor that distress and that apprehension. It's very real, very true. And she's going to be very, very sad. She's going to have periods of grief, deep grief.

She's going to go through periods of her feelings are going to be highly depressed. That's going to happen and it's going to happen for a season and so i think settling into that's going to be really tough my wife to be with me she's giving up everything and so like do you get the humility there i mean that's just such a massive thing she's giving up all of her life everything she knows for this dude she met and so her body's screaming in her don't do this right so i i guess there's a making peace with it it just is right and she's not bad she's not broken she's not dysfunctional you're not bad you're not broken this is just a tough situation for two young two young star-crossed lovers right

yeah um do y'all have a moving date yet? Nope. We are still in the end processes of immigration. So it's not done. It's just coming. When you say that, are you talking 30 days, 90 days, six months?

What do you think? Probably about 90 days. Okay. 90 days to maybe four months. I don't know. Okay. Question number one is I would have a steady, repeated conversation with her probably every morning.

It starts something like, how can I best love you today? Yeah. I have that conversation. And it might change day to day to day. Like I need you near me and I need to hold you right now. Can we do that? Yeah, absolutely.

I need you to get out of the house and not look at my face. Cool. You're going to think, I thought in the mornings we hugged. Today is not going to be that day, right? The grief is going to be like waves in the ocean. It's going to be some real low valleys, real high peaks, and it's going to be disorienting for you. Like being on a boat out in the ocean, it's going to be some real low valleys real high peaks and it's going to be disorienting for you like being on a boat out in the ocean it's going to feel disorienting um just just know

that's coming that way um i would give her a figure out a safe a place to have safe discussions about some very concrete plans we're going to move on this date. Let's go ahead and put one on the calendar. What do you want to do in the 90 days between now and when we are heading out? What do you want to do in the 70 days between now? You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I want to see if we can put that date on the calendar, even if it's going to move,

let's go ahead and put it on the calendar. And if it moves, great, cool. Yeah. Um, just so it's like kind of real that that's what we're doing we're trying to make it very very real right now it's still um

anxiety operates in a fantasy in this futuristic could happen could happen it's gonna happen might happen let's put some things down and the body has a remarkable way of responding when things are imminent like you hear people super anxious about flying anxious about flying anxious about flying um and then you hear people who survive a plane like planes going down they don't say they were anxious they don't say they were terrified they say they're really sad like the body like oh this is happening and there's there's just ways body takes care of itself in a pretty remarkable way let's see about putting something on the calendar and i would not do that and say this is when we're going i would invite her into that conversation yeah um dates times on this day what time would you want to leave would you want to leave before breakfast or after breakfast

would you want to leave after dinner before dinner um what do you want the night before to be to look like you want to have a big party you want to like after dinner, before dinner? What do you want the night before to look like? You want to have a big party? Let's start making some very concrete reality. And I want you to hold some very open-handed space for her looking at you saying, I can't do this. Have you thought through that? I have a little bit. What happens when that happens?

It's kind of scary to me. I mean the same thing that she'd be she's going through I'd be going through at the same time. What's the likelihood? Give me a percentage

out of 100 that she says I thought I could make the move but I can't. I don't know like 10-20%. Okay.

So not a lot? No. I think she'll go but but I'm not 100% sure yet. That's got to be scary for you. That's kind of scary to me because I know, I listen to your show a lot, so I know that she can change her mind. That's what we discussed from day one and stuff. It's also hard on me. Yeah. You are probably going to feel a lot of guilt and shame that you're taking her away from all this stuff to go live this other life. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You are probably going to feel a lot of guilt and shame that you're taking her away from all this stuff to go live this other life.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I would do my best to not hold on to that, to feel it, to notice that it's there. Oh, I'm feeling guilty right now. We both as young adults agreed on this. And so I'm not going to hold shame over this. I might feel guilty. My body's going to do what it's going to do, but we're going to hold shame over this. I might feel guilty. My body's going to do what it's going to do,

but we're going to go do the next right thing. Is there some things that y'all can talk through about what would make landing in the States more hospitable, more of a safe, a soft landing, if you will? Like the actual day or like just things in place? I'm talking about month one, month two, month three. Those who I've talked to who move straight from mom's home, dad's home to the States, it's so disorienting.

What we call normal life is so insane from the pace and the speed and the volume and the sound. Everything is madness. Yeah. Have y'all talked about a way soft land yeah i definitely want to like surround her with other people yeah other other mexican people especially um so that she can feel a little bit at home um and so that she like doesn't feel so disoriented like she can still go to like the supermarket the Mexican supermarket down the street or whatever

supermercado but hold on let me tell you this I think it's very important for you to invite her into this conversation and as a white American to not try to curate her experience okay because she may come over here and say hey the more time i spend at the supermarket or in

this thing like i can't breathe because all i can think about is my family i need to spend a season just going to kroger yeah right um and it may be, no, no, no, no. These things give me, um, they, they let me exhale when I go into, so I would invite her to maybe you sit down and say some of the questions, some of the things you were thinking, Oh, Hey, I was thinking if we took salsa dancing lessons, or if we ate at such and such restaurant, or if you, we went to a Hispanic serving church or whatever, um, that you would feel more at home, but that's just me trying to put stuff on you. What do you think?

What do you think is going to land, right? And you may be all prepped, ready to go, and then she goes once and she's like, no, I'm not ever doing that again, right? And I think it's just holding it with a really open hand. Can you do that? Yeah, for sure. So the soft landing would be me not trying to curate her experience

more of just her being in the conversation. How are we going to do this? Yeah, I think it's here's some questions. Here are some opportunities. And maybe even asking the question, how I can work really hard. Like, I want to love you as best I can. Would love look like me trying to find as many opportunities for you to be

both culinary, cultural, education. Like, do you want to try to recreate home here? Because I'll work my butt off to try to make that happen. I'll find the restaurants, the supermarkets, the cultural events. I'll do whatever we can. Or do you want to just close that door for a season? That door will open at some point, make no mistake. But I want to close that door for a season.

I want to jump in both feet and try to figure out how Publix works and why y'all are driving on that side of the road. I want to jump in both feet and try to figure out how Publix works and why y'all are driving on that side of the road. I want to try to figure out all that stuff. And so, and just inviting her in, but with an eagerness to,

I want to help this, you navigate this experience as best as humanly possible and I'm open to all of it. You see, the difference there being she's not moving into another dad who's just going to make her do some things.

See what I'm saying? Yeah. It's very much a spirit. And she may say, I don't care. You've been there. You do what's best. You tell me. Awesome.

Say, okay, cool. I'm going to do this. And then in two weeks, we're checking back in. I want you to tell me everything you didn't like about it, everything you did like about it. What made you gave you peace? What made you feel anxious? Let's let's check back in. And I think your tendency is probably going to be to try to own all of it. You can't. You got to invite her in.

And man, I wish you guys the best. I hope the transition is going to be rocky. It's going to be tough. It's going to be full of tears. It's going to be full of heartbreak. But man, I hope I hope it goes well. I think is the more you keep your hands open and the more you invite her in

to be a part of what happens next, that's the best chance your relationship has. And by the way, for everybody listening, this is for every move, every job transition, every new kid that comes along, sitting down and saying, how can I best love you in this new season? And hang on because that season is going to change again and that season is going

to change again. How can I best love you in this new season? And invite each other into that conversation. Don't just start dictating. That is the road to transforming your marriage. We'll be right back. All right. All right. Hey, Jenna, Kelly's not here today, so that means we can go crazy. I still want my job. Can't go too crazy. Fun ruiner. All right. Let's go to Kansas, literally. Let's go to Bethany on Kansas. What's up, Bethany? Hi, Dr. John. How are you doing? Partying, dude. How are you? I'm good.

Just chilling out in the cold weather here in Kansas. How cold is it today? Well, it says 40, but it's been cloudy and just gloomy and rainy for several days now. That just sounds gross. Yeah. It's been that way here in Nashville and the sun came out today. So hang in there. It's coming.

It's coming. Open, open. So what's up? How can I help? So my question for you today is really just, so I'm only in my second long-term relationship and I just, you know, I gain a lot of advice from everybody around me. Um, but

it's always terrible, Bethany, you know, yeah, well, I'm hoping most of it's good, but I guarantee you it's not the, it's not, it's the worst. How old are you? I am 36. Okay. You just said the way you said, this is my second long-term relationship, you said it as though something's wrong with you. Do you think that? You know, I've questioned that through the years. Why? But, because I'm, you know, in my mid-30s and I just had my first long-term relationship

when I was 34. So, I was just kind of... What happened with that one? I know kind of, what happened with that one? Huh? What happened with that one? Uh, he wasn't ready to be an adult yet. How old was he? 33. Jeez. So he was looking, I just, by the end of it, I was just feeling more like his mom than anything. Good for you. Gross. Don't kiss your son.

Yuck. Yeah. It was not great. All right. A quick aside. Men, grow up. Okay. Now we're back, Bethany.

Jeez. 33. Unbelievable. Okay. So have you met somebody new? Yes. And he's- Gross. He's wonderful. Oh, gross. Okay. Why? Okay, so have you met somebody new? Yes. And he's...

He's wonderful. Oh, gross. Okay. Why? What makes him wonderful? He's a grown-up. No. No, he has a really good heart for people.

We align on a lot of things that are, that are very like core values for, for me and for him. And, uh, we've done a lot of talking, the serious talks, um, and we've been together for six months and we're starting to talk, not really even starting. We've, you know, talked about future and what all that looks like. So my question really is, how do you know, really, when you're ready to ride or die, as you say, with somebody, and best practices to prepare for marriage? That's a good question. Um, the very un-Hollywood truthful answer is when I decide from this day forward, I'm going to wake up every day and choose to love this person. I wish there was like this, like when they cross this magic threshold and people will tell you all kinds of stupid things that they've got on posters in their church office or stitched into some pillow at the grandma's house, whatever. Love is a decision.

It's a choice that I make every day, sometimes multiple times a day. And my wife makes it sometimes minute by minute, right? So it's really when you say, I'm parking the bike here for the ride or die analogy. I'm parking the bike here. And this is where I'm going to be. And so that leads me to the next, there's a couple of questions that I always like, and they're a little,

they're a little untraditional. They wrap up some of the stuff that you would hear in normal, normal, like, is he the one or is all that kind of stuff? The first question I always want to know from a couple is where do y'all go in times of disconnection or distress? Here's why.

Like from each other? From life. Are you somebody who, when there's an awkward conversation at work, you disappear? Do you get loud and start swinging? Do you freeze and just freeze up? Does that happen in a romantic relationship? Does it happen with kids? Does it happen with the person at the grocery store? Here's why. We often try to solve the fighting or the hiding or the yelling, and we don't realize that it's the exact same core issue. It's just your body does one thing and my body does another. And so what you often get in a relationship, a romantic relationship is there's an issue. The issue is you came home and said, hey, we were going to talk about the budget and there's a $400 expense at some ammo store. Not that that's ever happened in my life.

And instantly, you have a defensive mechanism that just kicks in. Maybe it's fighting. Maybe it's getting really loud and pissed off. Maybe it's hiding It is i'm just not going to bring this up I'm not going to say anything and i'm going to let the slow ash of resentment burn He on the other hand when you bring it up gets real defensive. This is my money I work hard and and he's going to get I want to know where each of us go during times of disconnection and distress and here's the key here is when my wife and i i am somebody who i i kind of toggle which is weird it's rare um sometimes i

i my chest comes up and i start to start to fight and sometimes i hide my wife she pulls away that's just that's just the way it goes now i know when she starts to pull away her body's telling her she's not safe it's not because she's got some character issue or some flaw it's that her body's trying to protect her and i can then go to the mirror and say what am i bringing to this that makes the house feel unsafe see what i'm saying usually it's i'm being reckless with spending or i'm i've got bull i walk in with bags of gummy candy and she just knows, oh no, he's about to fall off the wall. All right. So it's, that's, that's question number one. Question number two is how do you tell, asking each other, how do you like to hear things that you probably don't want

to know? And this ranges from, hey, you have a booger in your nose. Do you want me to make a joke about it? Do you want me to say it very discreetly? Do you want to just not know? To here's how many people I've slept with. To here's how many people I don't like it. Like when we're having sex, I don't like it when you do this versus when you do that Like how do you want to hear things are going to be hard to hear? The way you talked to me last night when you were mad makes me want to leave this house How do you want to hear those things and let's try to do our best to can I honor that? If somebody says I don't ever want you to tell me I don't ever want to know You might say i'm gonna tell you. So this might not

be a great relationship. Or my instinct is to make jokes about things. That's just how I handle hard situations. That's really helpful when I'm going into a crisis situation and somebody's passed away and there's really hard things to see. And then we can make a really dark black humor joke and all of us can kind of like giggle through it. Right. I learned early on my wife didn't like me going, oh, you know what? I would love to do it now. Kiss you. Except you got a booger on your face.

Like she didn't. But that hurt her feelings. That wasn't cool. What she would like me to say is to whisper into your head. You got a booger right there. Just be really matter of fact and direct facts to your friends. Just say it. And then we move on. I had to learn that new language. Right. But when she said, can you do it like this? I was like, absolutely. I can do that. That wasn't a big deal to me. Okay. So how do you tell each other things

you probably don't want to hear? That's number two. Number three, the, the big ones, the role of religion, money, and sex in the, in there are our relationship? How do you deal with those personally? How are we going to do those things here? And here's the big one. How do each of you respond when those things change? Not if, but when. My relationship with faith is very, very different today than it was when I started dating my wife.

Drastically different. There's been seasons of me being a devout atheist, like just almost like proselytizing and there's been seasons when um so in tune with my faith and belief that um it's hard there's there's not a lot of space for anybody else and my wife has been through ups and downs in her particular journeys we've just we all chose at the beginning to hold those things really loosely. It's not my job to make sure she believes everything I believe. But that works for us.

Some people couldn't do that. Right? And so what's the role of religion? What's the role of money? For me, money is very, very scary. For my wife, it's this amazing opportunity. And so we respond to it differently. We spend differently.

We save differently. So what's the role it plays? We spend differently. We save differently. So what's the role at play? Same with sex. Um, and so you see what I'm saying? The role, what's the role of religion, money, and sex. And then here's the last one. What's the role of kids and extended family? This does has, um, this guy that's just so wonderful. Gross, Bethany. Um, has he, uh, has he been married before? Yeah, he, that was kind of like a side question too, that I had. Um, but cause he has a 23 year old daughter. Um, and she like how, like, I know I don't really have a say in their relationship but as we do come to this like situation she does depend on him financially

quite a bit um she's kind of got her and her grandpa like sort of wrapped around her finger and that and uh and i'm looking at the future of like you know if we extend the family expand the family like how how do we have that conversation how do we have that conversation? How do I have that conversation? I don't know. That conversation sounds less about he can't afford it or less about there's things we want to do together for our dreams, but he's still paying for an adult. And it sounds more like, I know that grubby little girl I've,

I've seen her before and she's just taking this man's money. It sounds much more personal than financial. Yeah. Bethany, you're my favorite call I've had in a while. So that's going to be a you issue, not him.

Where it's going to be a him issue is if you find yourself quietly low simmer disrespecting him because he's still paying for her. Right. You have a hard time with the way that he, if you think you're going to gently steer him away from his daughter, you're not going to. You're going to cause havoc. Yeah. I don't want to do that. I know you don't. I know you don't. I know you don't. But you also want her to grow up're going to cause havoc. Yeah. And I don't want to do that.

I know you don't. I know you don't. I know you don't. But you also want her to grow up. I've seen girls like her. You want that too. Yeah. I think that's going to be a place where

probably bite your tongue on that one. Where it will come up is when you start to say, okay, when we have this conversation about the role of religion, the role of money, the role of sex, that's really a role of

what kind of life do we want to live? And in 20 years, when you're 56 and you're 58, what house do you want to have? What town do you want to live in? Where do you want to be? And there's no guarantee we're ever going to get there, but at least aim at something and begin formulating a plan. Let's reverse engineer a plan to get there.

And that's when it's like, hey, you still send $1,000 a month to your 23-year-old kid? That's a lot. Tell me about that. And it's probably going to be he feels guilty over some divorce and he still feels like he needs to fund this thing because he's paying this out of guilt. And that happens all the time. And he's going to have to come to the choice

that he doesn't want to do that. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of guilt in it of course there almost always is almost always is and he's a good dad like he raised her so of course of course um there's also um have you taken her out for coffee just to get to know her um not one-on-one not yet it's still been kind of a get to know her with with him around and so she hasn't is your dad still around huh is your dad still around yeah are you fully you around your dad and and your boyfriend no no you're not no you're not

uh my father-in-law's in town and i wore a long sleeve shirt just to cover up my tattoos and it's my house in my house just out of respect just trying to be respectful and so Um, I tell you that to tell you you're not getting to know her with her dad around Right, you're getting to see how she how she curates her image when old man's around but you don't know her um i i i would i would lean in there because you're going to find a lot about her um you're going to find some stories about him that you don't know um you're going to find out a lot about how she's been raised how she's operated and for both really good and you're going to have some like whoa i didn't know all that and that's part of the picture that you are choosing to opt into

if you're with this guy. And I think that's amazing. You just want to make sure the car looks great. I just want to drive it first. Yeah. And what role does your family play? Well, they're three hours away, so they're just kind of, they're advisors a lot of the times. But I'm talking about Christmas, Thanksgiving, holidays, birthdays, funerals.

Yeah, those are important to us. And that's the difference in my family versus his. It's not really a thing with his family because he has such a small family. But for my family, it's a big thing. Let's have all those conversations up. What's the role of kids in extended family? Yeah, that is important. Does that sound good?

Yeah. Hey, I'm proud of you for asking these fun, hard questions. Well, thank you for allowing me to ask these fun, hard questions. Well, thank you for allowing me to ask these fun, hard questions. It's your life. You can do whatever you want. Here's the one thing I would challenge you and him on. I would create a spirit of adventure

when you're asking these questions, not a spirit of law and order, SVU, inquiry in court. How do you function with religion what is your thoughts on sex asshole like geez i now gotta fight you now my defense mechanisms are coming up but if we're going on an adventure together hey we're thinking about building a life what's the role of faith and religion plays in your world um is the scientific method something you worship or is it a cool way to solve science problems? Like, like tell me about what you believe. Tell me about what you think. What's the role of money

plays in your life? Did you have a lot growing up? Did you have none growing up? Like let's, let's have a spirit of adventure about these questions. And by the way, every one of these questions will change. Ta-da, that's the big secret. Nobody tells you about. They'll all change. And so the second question here is probably one of the most important ones. How do I tell you things that you probably don't want to hear? You don't want to know that I used to love it

when you did this thing in bed and then four months went by and I hate it. And now you think it's the greatest move. It's your best move. That makes me want to not be around you at all. How do you want me to tell you that? Because you're going to feel embarrassed that for four months you've been coming in and doing this thing. How do we have those conversations? Because it's going to shift,

and it's going to shift, and it's going to move. And that is the grand adventure of being married to somebody. And it's not something to be scared of or to run away from. It's something to embrace fully and be like, oh, awesome. I get to have a never-ending adventure with somebody. It's fantastic. What a rad way to live. It's awesome. Hey, hang on the line, Beth, awesome. I get to have a never-ending adventure with somebody. It's fantastic. What a rad way to live. It's awesome. Hey, hang on the line, Bethany. I'm going to send you the questions for humans,

for dating couples, and for romantic couples. Gross. And those are going to be on me. I want you all to go through them. You'll have a blast. Hey, thanks for the call. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings

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Go to johndeloney.com slash deal, D-E-A-L, johndeloney.com slash deal. And in honor of caller from Kansas and my brothers and sisters from the K-State, song is from the great Kansas. Carry on, wayward son. It goes like this. Carry on, my wayward son. There'll be peace when you're done. Lay your weary head to rest. Don't you cry no more. Kelly, that's what you always tell me. Don't cry no more. Once I rose above the noise and confusion just to get a glimpse beyond this illusion,

I was soaring even higher, but I flew too high. Kelly gets too high. Though my eyes could see I was still a blind man, though my mind could think I was still a madman, I hear the voices when I'm dreaming. I can hear them say, Carry on, my wayward son. I tell you all,

keep taking the next step. Stay on the path. You got this. We'll see you soon.