The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Doesn’t Want Sex After Having Kids

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

On today’s episode, we hear about:  ·  A woman wanting to rebuild intimacy with her husband after becoming a mom ·  A man wondering how he can help can his friend who has become homeless ·  A woman wondering how to help her former tenant without remaining involved in her life Offers From Today's Sponsors ·      10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp ·      Three free months of Hallow  ·      25% off Thorne orders  ·      20% off Organifi with code DELONY ·      Get 25% off plus two free pillows at Helix Sleep ·     Up to 30% off Cozy Earth products with code DELONY   Next Steps 🫶🏻 Pick up a copy of Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life. 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test   📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation    Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights    🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy 

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My husband and I have had two children. We are really struggling with our intimacy, and I think the shame is connected to me kind of feeling like our lack of connection and intimacy is just a failure. We told you it was a failure. So many people, parents, teachers, former therapists, friends. What in the world is going on?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I'm so grateful that you're here. Talking about pretty much anything going on in your life, your relationships, your mental health, your emotional health. For 20 years, I've been sitting with people who thought their life was going to go one way, and now it's going a totally different direction. And those moments are hard. They're hard to navigate. The what do we do now moments. After you have kids, after you

get married, after you get divorced, after you break up, after you find out somebody hurt you, what do you do now? And that's what this show is about. If you want to be here, it's real people talking about real challenges. I'd love to be here, it's real people talking about real challenges. I'd love to have you on the show. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or you can go to johndeloney.com slash ask and write in what's going on. Or if you call and leave a message and Kelly and the team will go through the calls and they create the show and hopefully they'll pick you. We do get calls from all over planet earth and we get tons and tons and tons and tons of them. But I want to hear from you all. John Deloney.com slash ask. And real quick, please just take a second and hit the subscribe button.

It makes such a powerful difference. If you're watching this on YouTube, hit subscribe. If you are watching this or listening to this on some sort of podcast platform, leave a five-star review just to say amazing, right? Or just say awesome or just say like, guy doesn't complete sentences all the way, but it's still pretty good. Whatever it is, hit the download button. But all of those little digital thank yous make such a big difference. Kicks the show up in the algorithm and it puts it in front of that many more people. Super grateful for you, everybody who listens. And the growth of the show continues to just astound us all as we sit in these meetings.

But it's because of y'all. And I'm so grateful you're riding with us. All right, let's go to Denver, Colorado and talk to Brittany. What's up, Brittany? Hey, Dr. John. Thank you so, so much for taking my phone call today. I really appreciate it. I'm grateful that you called.

What's going on? So my husband and I have had two children, and we are really, really struggling with our intimacy, and I'm calling in to get some advice and guidance as to how we can get that back and rebuild our connection. I can hear it in your voice. Is this a scary call to make? Incredibly scary.

I'm proud of you. Thank you for your trust. Thank you. I just feel so much shame. Yeah, I got you. Tell me about the shame. Tell me about it. My oldest is two and a half at the end of the month, and we also have an eight-month-old,

so we are really in the core of the little kid years, all the struggles, the trials, the tribulations that come along with that. And I think the shame is connected to me kind of feeling like our lack of connection and intimacy is just a failure, a failure of our marriage. And it hurts. Who told you it was a failure? So many people. It's kind of been the carousel that plays in my head. Parents, teachers, former therapists, friends. Just, it's kind of been an overarching theme throughout my life.

That you're a failure? Yes. Are you a good mom? I think so. I hope I am. No, that's not what I asked. I'm just asking you direct. Are you a good mom? Yes. Yeah.

I think you are. Thank you. And are you also so exhausted? Beyond. Yeah, other planetary exhausted, huh? Correct. So I'm hesitating right now because there's something I want to tell you, but I'm afraid it's going to be both comforting and really annoying.

Okay. Are you in a place where you can be annoyed? Is that okay? And if you're not, that is to say, John, just shove it and move on to the next thing. And I'm happy to do that. I'm alone in my car. Okay. I'll be okay. Yeah. You're not crazy. You're totally normal. Having an eight-month-old and a two-and-a-half-year-old and struggling with sex, and I'm assuming intimacy, it's veiled language for your sex life is just gone. And a husband that's stumbling around,

not knowing where he fits in this new picture, and you trying to carry the weight of everything and you're at the point where I can't carry it anymore, I want you to know that's totally normal. You're not nuts. You didn't fail anything. You're not crazy. You're not bad. You're not doing a bad job. This is the part of the story that nobody tells you. Right. Okay. And I know that doesn't make it feel any better because you still want to connect with your husband and you still miss him and you still want to feel

like you're actually like successful at something for God's sakes. And I get that. And so I know it's annoying when I tell you that, but the other, I want you just to relax in. You're not crazy. You're not doing a bad job. Okay.

Yeah. Thank you. All right. As comfortable as you are to talk about it. And my wife tells me I'm real awkward because I just got to jump into these things all over with people at my dinner table and beyond. Um, tell me about how your sex life used to be and how it is now. now? I'll be honest. At the very beginning, it was hot and heavy like most relationships are. As time began to move on, it started to taper off a little bit. My husband is the first stable, safe relationship, romantic relationship that I've ever had in my entire life. So towards the beginning, maybe about a year in, is kind of when, as I mentioned, things started to taper off.

I feel like I began to kind of push him away because I was so scared of the kindness, the lack of chaos. I was kind of trying to create it, if that makes sense. We were able to move forward and, you know, try to rebuild from there and continue working on our sex and different things in our relationship. Four years ago, we got married. We've been together for a total of nine years, married again for four. That was the height of COVID. Of course, we had a very small, you know, 10-person allowed ceremony. And then the next year, 2021, is when I became pregnant with our first. During that time, I think it was very unique on the curtails of the pandemic, being pregnant.

It was kind of scary. Scared but excited for this new chapter that would come about in our relationship. During that pregnancy, I was very uncomfortable. I gained a lot of weight. So, the intimacy during the pregnancy definitely started to taper, and it kind of began to fully spiral from then. And now we're in 2024. We welcomed our second child late fall of last year, and it got to the point where we kind of forgot or couldn't even name the last time that we had been intimate. What perpetuated this call particularly is everything kind of came to a head a couple months back when I returned to work after my maternity leave. Both births of both of my children were incredibly traumatic physically, spiritually, and emotionally. Our second child was actually born premature, so she had a 32-day nicking stay, which was...

That's a whole different conversation for a different day. I was returning back to work a couple months ago, and my husband and I were fighting, and it kind of got to the point where he threw around the C-word. It feels like we're just co-parents. We don't even have sex anymore. A lot of things were said out of anger, but I could tell with my husband's personality that they were things that he shoved so far down that were just kind of starting to bubble up. And that's when we kind of, as you say, turned the music off, turned the lights on and said, we are like six inches away from each other. We're miles away,

what happened? And we've kind of been trying to push forward from there, but it kind of feels like our feet are in quicksand and we're still very, very disconnected. Yeah. Um, man, yeah um man one thing is I'm glad the c-word was

co-parents when you said he used the c-word I was like wait wait what what does he do okay so you're co-parents okay yeah here's what I want you to go back and listen to how you just explained that.

Because you have painted a picture where basically for 10 years, every part of the intimacy problems, every part of your sex life problems has been your fault. You pushed him away, you gained weight, you had never had a steady boyfriend, you did this, you did this, you a steady boyfriend you did this you did this you did this you did this and what i promise you is this this challenge this place y'all find yourself which is very common for people with two young kids two years and younger to not be having sex to not even know what day it is right um because they're still operating on old operating instructions with a whole new chaotic new world um this problem is co-created y'all created it together and you you

you may not have thought that or have thought through it because you've been looking at what can you do what can you do how can i fix this how can i fix this but as you mentioned he stuffed stuff down for 10 years right yeah and so both of you have just slowly found your play your way here the good news is if y'all want to and y'all work together you can co-create your way into something totally magical and amazing and full of other problems too. Nothing's perfect, but you can co-create your way out of this, but it's going to take both of you. It's going to take both of you. I want to go back to this story you tell yourself, which is, I've only had one boyfriend that was safe my whole life. And so any issues in this relationship are my fault. Tell me more about that. I didn't really date around before meeting my husband.

I had a total of three relationships and romantic relationships in my entire life. My first relationship, I thought things would be great. And I was very young and I was not in a place where I wanted to have sex or pursue that side of the romantic relationship at the age that I was. I don't care what age you are. You don't ever have to pursue sex if you don't want to. pursue that side of the romantic relationship at the age that I was. And, um, I don't care what age you are. You don't ever have to pursue sex if you don't want to. Yeah.

Um, yeah, he felt differently. And, um, I was date raped. He had flipped something while we were out. And,

I'm so sorry. Yeah. And that was kind of his way of, God, I'm so sorry. Yeah. And that was kind of his way of getting what he wanted from that relationship. And it got to the point where enough was enough, and I ended things. And ironically enough, after I had broken up with him, I began talking with my now husband. And I was so afraid of the lack of chaos and craziness that was going on, I ghosted him. Hey, Brittany. Brittany, Brittany, Brittany. You were drugged and raped.

Mm-hmm. Yes. You were drugged and raped. Mm-hmm. Yes. Intimacy and sex for you was somebody you trusted and somebody you told your values up front. This is where I feel comfortable with physically and intimately right now. Your body's put a pin in that as a moment of violence,

as a moment of protection. So moments of intimacy for you are terrifying, aren't they? Incredibly. Scary. Yeah. Scary. Yeah. And the one thing that you want more than anything is to be free and wild and rocking on till the break of dawn. And that's the one thing your body won't let you have because it was stolen from you. Yeah.

I'm so sorry, man. It still hurts so much. I know it does. I know, I know, I know. I know. And I don't want to paint a picture with a broad brush. I'm just piecing together the story you told me my guess is you pushed away

you pushed away and then things got hot and heavy in the next relationship because that was your way of reclaiming it it did start off hot and heavy and then it quickly became physically abusive I was getting beat on a day to day basis going to school with bruises and it took a long time to get out of that relationship too. Yeah, man.

So then this guy comes along and he's finally safe and he's finally a good guy? Yes. Very good guy? Yes. Very good, very kind. He was the first person to say, hey, I would like to take you out. Would you like to go have dinner with me? I had never been asked that before. It was always kind of the feeling of,

oh, what can they get for me? He was the first person to want to celebrate me, in a sense. To honor me. To just go break bread with me. Talk about dreams and aspirations. To build a life with. Yes. Yeah.

So here's your challenge right now. I'm going to put aside here, and I need to say this before we can move on. I really want you to get off this call and call somebody in Denver that you can start talking to because I want you to heal from what happened. Okay? Yeah. You haven't talked to anybody. Now's the time. If you have talked to somebody, it's still really fresh right there.

Do you have daughters to somebody it's still really fresh right there do you have daughters yes okay this narrative is going to haunt your body as they get older i know i want you to go talk to somebody okay okay it's not because you're weak it's not because you're broken it's not because something's wrong with you it's because your nervous system said i'm gonna be damned if this ever happens to you again. We're going to fight. We're going to push people away. We're going to scream. We're not going to sleep all night. We're going to stay awake. And we're going to do whatever we got to do to make sure that never happens again. Because I trusted that guy. I trusted the next guy. Okay. So that's off to the side here, but that's foundational to you moving forward and healing yourself

Healing your role as a mom and healing your marriage, okay? Okay, I know that's a big responsibility But i'm putting it at your feet because nobody else can get that kind of healing but you And you have to decide i'm worth that kind of healing and i'm telling you I don't lie on the show I'm telling you right now you're worth that. Okay Okay All right. Here's the beautiful thing about the picture you painted after all that stuff happened. That man, your husband, is still in there.

And here's a couple of weird paradoxes that I'm going to lay in front of you, okay? Mm-hmm. You probably heard me say this, but I want you to hear me say it in your particular home. You work so hard when you're dating and in the first year or two of like being married you work so hard establishing safety like the the romance the desire that's everywhere right it's all over the place you don't have to practice that kind of stuff it's just everything's, I just want to make out all the time. I want to be together all the time.

I want to hold his hand all the time. But I'm practicing. Is he going to be a guy that hits me? Is he going to be a guy that drugs me? Is he going to be a guy that answers the call, that answers the phone when I text him or call? And so you're practicing safety. And just like you described it after a year or so

when safety is established, it's a weird paradox where for many people, safety and that rambunctious romance, right? That flirting, that desire, that I just want to be with him. I just want to be with him. It wanes, right? The body exhales. And so in that weird way, after you've practiced safety for three years,

four years, five years, y'all dated for five years before you got married. Now we have a choice. Just like you said, he wants to get to know you. He wants to break bread with you. Those same principles are going to apply now. Because the challenge you're running into is you keep trying to get back to your first two years. They all were together, and those years are over. Now you've got two wild kids, right, and a job and responsibilities, and you're back at work too, and you've got financial stress. You've got all this stuff going on. And so the question is, can i find um release where can i find adventure where

can i find joy where can i find i can't wait until anticipation in sex and connection intimacy what has to be true for that world to reemerge. Have you ever sat down and said, I really love the following three to five, seven things? Like these things really feel good to me? No. Okay. I don't even think my body has allowed me to get there. I feel like I've just been stuck in freeze,

fight, fight, or freeze, you know? Yeah. And tell me if this, if this rings true with you, when you know that your husband needs sex, the man you love needs sex, you're a trooper, you love him, but needs go on a chore list. You need to get diapers. You need to make sure the kid's bottles are warmed up and you need to make sure he has sex so you you put that on your chore list yep and eventually you get tired and some things have to fall off the chore list i can't take the trash out tonight i'm too tired i'm not making the doing i'm not washing the whatever tonight i'm tired we're having sex i'm tired yes needs are very different than wants.

I want you to, when we get off this call, and after you make a call, the call to a counselor, because I want you to meet with a therapist, okay? But I want you to pick up Emily Nagatsky's masterpiece called Come As You Are. Okay. And it's a book that probably you and your husband should read together, and it will be very challenging for you okay

but it is a masterpiece in a teaching a woman to walk through this crazy question that for some reason nobody ever teaches and nobody ever talks about when it comes to sex and sexuality for a woman is what do you like like what are you into and And most women are like, I never even asked that question. I never even thought about that question. Or you catch glimpses of it. Or I've heard sex referred to, well, it's just like a big hug. And I just want to say like, no, no, no. And when I say hug, like there's a safety, there's an intimacy and it just feels nice. But I want to say like, no, there's so much more. There can be so much more. But as you begin to ask, like, what do I actually like?

What do I actually want? What am I actually into? Then he gets to say, not, I need some sex or like, I really, like he gets to say, here's what I want. I'm going to try this. What if we, how about, and now we're getting the anticipation, the the heart rate gets up the okay right yeah and now you're having a connected moment and by the way sex is going to be less frequent with two kids under like two and a half especially after two traumatic births especially as you're healing from some pretty significant sexual abuse and physical abuse.

And he loves you. And he said till death do us part. So he's going to be with you during the healing process. And some days y'all are going to start sex and it's going to be hot and heavy. And then your body's going to shut you off. And he's going to be, he's not, he's not going to be excited about it, but he's going to be right there with you. And all we're going to do is begin to step into, okay, the marriage we had is over.

What are we going to build now? And do you see how that question asked that way takes all the pressure off? All that stuck in mud stuff. It's like, yeah, we're done driving this car. It's in the mud. We're not going to get out. We're going to have to walk through the mud for a bit. We're going to get in that car over there. It's on the road. And we get to decide where we drive next. How does that sound?

Um, it sounds a little scary. Um, what's scary about it? I guess just something that I heard you say a few moments ago was, what's scary about it? I guess just something that I heard you say a few moments ago was you know the first two years of our relationship are over right? but I feel like he

my husband still kind of goes back to that and he said in the past you know I just wish we could go back to how things were how things used, how things used to be. So to me, it feels scary to kind of put it all on the table. It is.

It's terrifying. Because what if he just wants what it used to be? What if deep down, it's just, he's here because we're married and there's a lot of logistics that go with that. What if he doesn't want something new? What if he does? Yeah. What if he does? What if he loves you so much and he doesn't know how to reach reach you and what if the idea of um uh i'll just say it direct because

this is this show right we can say whatever we want on the show um many guys struggle with the idea of having sex with a mom it's a role shift same as many guys have sometimes have trouble having sex with their white with it with the label, right? It's just different Because wives are like this and moms are like this and it's just different, right? Yeah And what if he misses you so bad and the only time he's seen you smile Because you've had two traumatic pregnancies. You've had all this abuse, but he remembers a moment when you were smiling. And you think it's about some kind of sex act,

you think it's about some kind of partying you used to do, maybe he just misses you. And he and his clumsy, just being a dad, going to work kind of way, doesn't have the language to say, I miss when you used to just light up like a light bulb. Let's do that. And the challenge for you is not to create stories about the things he says, but to, let me just say it this way. There is no other path forward other than to put everything on the table. So you and I will never be who we used to be and thank God because we're

different now. And we have these two amazing angels in our home. And also we get to be whatever we want moving forward. What do we want that to be? And you can say things like, I want to learn to really love sex. I want to love it. And part of me loving that is I'm going to have to say, I need some help with some things because sex for you might start at

noon, way outside the bedroom, right? And sex may start with you feeling supported and loved and him helping out with diapers and with this and helping out with cleaning up throw up and it might help with bathing the kids and it might help with some financial security like who knows i don't know i'm just i'm just spitballing things but you can say a lot i want to learn that's my adventure i want to learn to love sex and what a what an awesome thing to practice learning to love, right? Yeah. And I'm confident that he wants to continue to love to learn it too,

and he doesn't want to be a chore either. He just doesn't have another picture, and you are right to be scared about what comes next because you trusted somebody, and they took everything from you, and then you trusted somebody else else and they physically hurt you. Both of them physically hurt you. So your body's instinct to protect you from these things is right and it's good. And the vulnerability to move next and build something new is right and good also. Terrifying, scary. vulnerability to move next and build something new is right and good also terrifying scary

and so in in order of importance here is a I want you to call a therapist today and I want you to get in as soon as possible and I want y'all to figure out the money part of it. And I know everybody's struggling right now. This is really important because that sits really close to the top for you. That's still right at the tip top of your heart. It's right at the tip top of your nervous system. And I want you to get in there ASAP. I also want you to sit down with your husband and say, I love you. You're the safest, most stable person I've ever been.

I'm terrified of losing you. And also we have two little kids and we just have a new life and we got to figure out how to do this. And if he wants to call in the show, I'd love to talk to him because he sounds like he's a great guy. He's just stuck and he's just spinning his wheels.

Sounds like he's an amazing man trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out. And I want you all to order that book. Emily Nagatsky's Come As You Are we'll link to it in the show notes and read it together and y'all can have some deep discussions y'all have never had before

and you'll end up in tears in some places and you'll end up laughing in some places and you'll end up in some really intimate conversations and some of it will be good some of it will be stuff you got to talk to your therapist about and some of it will be amazing some of it will be eh, alright of it will be stuff you got to talk to your therapist about. And some of it will be amazing. Some of it will be, eh, all right, it's cool. Let's move on.

Then you can start being honest about saying things like, I really want to love sex. And I really want to love connection. I really want to love intimacy. And so we're both going to take like crooked wobbly steps forward into what this new world is going to be like. And by the way, somebody's got to go get the kid, right?

Because the kid's crying. Thank you so much for your bravery, Brittany, and thank you so much for being a blessing to so many people. What courage looks like, this is what bravery looks like. And I cannot wait to see what your healing journey looks like, this is what bravery looks like and I cannot wait to see what your healing journey looks like and I can't wait to see what you and your husband decide to build and create next tell them to give me a call anytime, you call me back anytime

I'll walk with you all the way hang on the line, I'm going to hook you up with a copy of Own Your Past, Change Your Future I want you to read that book after you read Emily's book. Thank you so much, Brittany. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes, and if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season.

And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist

anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Deloney. All right, let's go out to Hunter in McKinney, Texas. Hey, Hunter, what's going on, brother? How you doing, doctor?

Doing all right, my man. What's up with you? Oh, wow. I didn't think I was going to be nervous doing this, but I'm actually a little more nervous than I thought. I'm going to try to give you some context to understand this question. Okay. I want you to picture four guys that grew up elementary, junior high, high school,

and then even parts of college together. That's my gang. I got that exact gang in my life. Yeah, and there was even more on the periphery. Yep. But that was a pretty tight group. Yes, sir. And I want you to imagine one of these guys kind of falls off the radar a little bit, has some things happen in his life, finds himself living under a bridge in Dallas, Texas.

Now, they were talking about guys that grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood. Parents all had good jobs. No excuses for anything like this. Not even drugs or alcohol involved. The real issue is the guy's been getting catfished to the tune of over $400,000. And three of these friends that are his friends have been trying everything in the world we can think of to make him see it, and he will not see it. And I originally called you to ask you, what do we do to help him? But the more I think about it, we kind of need some help too. We have all been dealing with this because you just, I don't know. I mean,

we've done everything we can. We're at our wit's end. Yeah. I think one of the hardest things a person can experience is watching somebody they love refuse to take their help as they slowly dismantle their lives with choices. Yes, sir. And you're losing a brother, and you know it. You've lost a brother. Yeah. And then when you lose a brother like that, as hard as you've been trying, you lose a brother and you lose confidence in yourself

because you have this picture painted of these four Texas guys of we would never leave each other we ride or die no matter what and then you find yourself in this situation exactly I think you just said something that may have may have hit a little closer to home. We're suffering because we had a picture and we can't, we're failing. We can't. You're not, Hunter. You're not. You can't talk like that.

You're not. You didn't fail him. The problem with the relationship is it has to go two ways. Love has to go two ways. Brotherhood has to go two ways. We just let him live under that bridge? What's your alternative? You're going to go beat him up We just let him live under that bridge. What's your alternative? You're going to

go beat him up and kidnap him. He'll have you arrested and put in jail. Yeah. We drag him up out of there every week or so and put him in a hotel that's walking distance. We've got his telephone. We got his phone away from him. We got his chime card away from him because that's how he was giving the money away. And he's convinced that there's a half a billion dollars waiting for him if he can just get the right combination of helping them with the next problem. He thinks it's girls that he's working towards. And it's some guy in Africa, probably. Is he schizophrenic? No. How do schizophrenic? No. How do you know?

No. How do you know? Well, okay, from a clinical offering, no. We don't know. Okay. Has he always been a little more difficult than the others? Yeah. But 57 years, doctor.

We know what Wright looks like. And he ain't that far off. I think you're so close to it, you can't see it. Okay, that's possible. Y'all are so close to it, and you love him so deeply. And you all have a picture of all these adventures y'all used to go on. You know that guy. You know the guy you went to college with. You know the guy that y'all played high school ball with. You know the guy that y'all used to go on you know that guy you know the guy you went to college

with you know the guy that went y'all played high school ball with you know the guy that y'all dated girls together y'all know the guy you're getting fistfights together and played music together you know all that guy and that's not the guy that's sitting under the bridge true that and one of the most disturbing challenging things as we get older is you get to be 40, you get to be 50, you get to be 60, and you find out, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you hit your wife? What?

Right? You didn't know that was possible. I thought I knew that guy. You owe what in gambling losses, right? And you thought you have you owe what in gambling losses right and you thought you know somebody knew somebody this happens it happens in our churches it happens in our friendships it happens at work and so my challenge to you is this is maybe he is just is just clear-eyed as a West Texas sunset, and he just believes that this woman loves him, and she's got a half a billion dollars for him. I'd be willing to bet he's suffering from some sort of pretty significant psychiatric disorder, or he's been using drugs in a way that y'all had no idea. I don't think it's the latter.

I think it's the former. I really do. I mean, we've been, yeah, it's the former. Okay. Well, here's the thing. Let me tell you this, though. There's a lot of pride wrapped up, and we would know. We would know.

And I've sat with people who were abused by someone in their family. And yes, there is shock and awe and horror at the abuse, but often the unwinding is, how did I not see that? And it's easier. The reason abuse often goes unspoken for so long is people can't, I would know if i saw it and i'm just telling you that for this i'm not i'm not trying to put anything into the universe that's not there i'm just telling you you have over the years you love this man so much and you love the idea of the

brotherhood so much you have you've you're squeezing every variable so tightly that man if it happened to be that he was doing drugs, that would unwind your picture of yourself and these guys so much that I can't even live in that reality, so I'm just going to stay here. You get what I'm saying? No, I do. I do. And so I think- Go ahead. We'll leave room for that. Yeah, we'll leave room for that. We really will. But at this point, I need somebody to tell me what to do next. We walk. You got to walk away.

That's what we've done. Because here's the deal. He has looked at you, a man that you love and said, I do not want your help and I do not want your love and I do not want your care and I do not want your money. Okay. Just needed to hear somebody say it. And I need you and your boys to get together and pray for him. I need you and your guys to get together and make

him a card that says, when you're ready, here's the number. We'll be there. And even if y'all want to feel like you're doing something and y'all set up a checking account somewhere that everybody puts 50 bucks in a month just to say that we're doing something so that if he ever decides I need help, there's some money right there.

Good idea. But that'll give you something to do with that energy, right? And if y'all want to go be an angel and drop food off to him and stuff like that y'all can do that and man I wish this wasn't as close to home to me as

man I was telling you at some point you have to say I loved as best as I could and at some point I'm trying, I was telling you at some point you have to say, I loved as best as I could. And at some point I'm trying to fix him. I'm trying to use him to make me feel better about the situation. You're right. That's it.

That's right down the middle. Right down the middle. He doesn't deserve that in a weird backwards kind of way. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I, I, I really appreciate you taking the time to? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I, I, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Anytime. Hey, will you tell me, like, how's that landed on you? Don't be, don't be a Texas male on me just yet. Like, how's that landed on you? Um, it's kind of landing right in the rib cage, right? Okay. Yeah. Okay.

So we, we, um, we got to let it go. I mean, you know, you, you grew up in Texas, you know, Texas guys, we, yeah, we don't, we don't just give up when the first, when the first rock lands, we keep swinging at it. That's right. And especially, especially if you're a red Raider. Guns up. That's right. That's right.

Um, and I think there's honor in that. And I think there's honor in loving somebody enough. And maybe you do a well check. Maybe you call the authorities. And I'm sure you all have checked out all the local programs there. Yeah, we got him into one. We got him into one and he checked himself out. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think you and your checked himself out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think you and your other two buddies, your other two brothers, I think you all put your heads together, put your arms around each other, and you make a commitment to each other that we're going to continue to love each other and that when he calls, we'll all be ready and we're going to hold each other accountable. But you're all going to have to do something that Texas men don't do very well. No man does it very well, and that's grieve.

Realize there is a limit to your power over the world. Yeah. And Texas men, especially, that's in the water, is y'all can do anything, right? I know, because that's where I was raised. And there's a terror, there's a fear when you get to the end, and you go, oh, I couldn't fix that. And there's a terror. There's a fear when you get to the end and you go, oh, I couldn't fix that. Yeah.

It's heartbreaking. Sad. Maybe an exercise for all three of you would be to write him a letter that you're not going to send him until his eyes clear up. You all write him a letter. And that exercise of, hey, brother, I'm letting you go, but I'm going to be here as soon as you're ready. But I want you to get that that's in your rib cage. I want you to get that out of your body onto a piece of paper. Good idea. Otherwise, it'll haunt you. Really good idea. Okay.

And maybe y'all can get together and have a glass of whiskey and sit around a fire and read your letters to your brother, to each other. Yep. Y'all can grieve together. And let me tell you this, that man is... God, not much chokes me up. Hold on. That man is blessed beyond measure to have you as his friend.

Thank you. He won the damn friend lottery having you and those other two men in his life thank you you didn't fail you didn't quit on him

you honored his wishes and you let him tip his hat and turn and walk away and you'll be there the moment he turns back around thank you doctor alright my brother.

Appreciate your call, man. I know that was a hard call to make, and I'm grateful for you. And everybody else out there who's got close friends, you don't have a lot of opportunities to make 50 or 60-year friends, 30, 40-year friends. Hang on to them tight. Love well. We'll be right back.

All right, let's go out to Portland, Oregon And talk to Jenny Hey Jenny, what's up? Hi there How are you? I'm pretty good Except for this situation I'm great, otherwise I wouldn't be calling you So what's up?

Yeah So I'm kind of struggling with an old tenant who we had living on our property. She lived with us for three and a half years in our guest house, and we live kind of rurally outside of town. And I gave her an notice. Um, I gave her like a 90 day eviction notice so that she could, uh, find a place to live. And she, um, she ended up eventually finding a place on like day 88, um, moved in with this person. And then she started texting me messages about two weeks after she, um, she found this place that they were accusing her of, um, being an alcoholic. And that's why I evicted her and stealing, but you know, they were trying to take her pain pills and her texts and the arguments that she was having with this new

person that she was living with just kind of escalated and escalated. And eventually she texted me about a month after that she was being evicted from that place, and now she's living in hotels, motels, and running out of money. And I know that she, at that time, without asking, she wasn't asking for my help, but I know that she was asking for my help. And then she did start asking me for money and for help. And I just didn't want to. My husband and I evicted her for reasons. And I struggle with the guilt of knowing that she really has no one to turn to. And I don't want to be the person that she continues to rely on. And I don't really know what to do and if I should just keep ignoring her, which is kind of what I've done, or if I should do something to help her. You have a great heart.

And I'm grateful for landlords out there like you that give people tons of extra grace when things get sideways. She was late for a long time, wasn't she? I mean, she was an alcoholic and she was very dependent on me and it became too much. It got to a point where I was really angry and resentful of her in my house or in my space. And so that's why

I had to give her notice. And you chose guilt over resentment. I don't want to hate you and I don't want to hate coming to my own home. Yeah. And so you need to go hate coming to my own home. Yeah. And so you need to go get the help that you need. This sounds like a callous question, but it's just so rudimentary.

Yeah. What is prohibiting her from going to a local organization there in Portland to get help with her addiction challenges? What's preventing her from getting a job? What's preventing her from seeking local services? Yeah, she is on disability. She has some kind of back injury, but she does not have a vehicle. We had offered at one point to help her purchase a vehicle. We would purchase an expensive vehicle and she could make payments to us if that was the case. I think she gets about $1,200 on disability and then she's on food stamps. She, so she kind of thinks that she can't work.

I did give her, you know, at one point I sent her a message and was like, Janet, I can't help you. Here's the crisis help hotline. Local resources. Yeah. I don't think she thinks that she has a problem, but I'm the one who, because she didn't have a car and we literally lived like, you know, 40 minutes outside of town with no, no services between us. There's no gas station. There's no, uh, um, there's no, you know, grocery store or anything. So she was very dependent on me. I picked up her,

she would order, you know, groceries from Walmart and I would pick them up for her. And I would pick up her two cases of wine every two weeks and I would go to the liquor store for her and um Jenny you participated then you played along yes yes I did and then I got to the point where I was and then I thought well you know she I was judging her definitely and that you like. As you're picking it up from the store. Yes. You know, and I, and I, I think too, I know, I know that I have guilt about it too, because she, you know, I try,

we tried, I tried to take her into my community, my, you know, our neighbors and family and friends. And she would come over my, you know, our neighbors and, and family and friends. And she would come over for, you know, my kids' birthdays. And, you know, she would come over on Christmas because she lived in like in our little guest house. Um, and I, I just, but I just became like done with her. And I mean, I gave her, I told her, I lied to her about why she needed to move out. I told her that my mother-in-law was going to be spending more time up there and, you know, need a big guest house. And that was an easy out. And it's semi-partially true, but not fully. At the end of the day, what I don't want you to do is to begin to slippery slope some of these things. Like buy alcohol for someone you know is struggling with alcohol.

To make trips for somebody that you're just angry the whole way you're making the trip. Invite somebody into your family's life that you know is going to cause issues and make you upset about the whole event. At the end of the day, you end up lying about why I'm kicking you out. I don't want you to become somebody that you lose respect for in the process of

not just trying to avoid a few really hard conversations. What happens is that loss of respect you have for yourself gets channeled and dropped onto her and that's not really fair right like she's hurting she's struggling she needs some she needs more help than you're able to provide her both cognitively um like physically physiologically like she needs some help and it's beyond your scope of ability to help. And, um, but all the other animosity and hatred and frustration and just all that stuff, not hatred.

That was probably strong, but all the, all this stuff is, yeah, it's you trying to avoid having a few really direct, hard conversations with somebody that probably admittedly can't hear those conversations. Yeah.

So my, my, in many ways, probably admittedly can't hear those conversations yeah so my my in many ways she's more than a tenant because in many ways you function as a caretaker right and you you also man kind of went went past the caretaker role and invited into christmas into family into friends events and things, right? Yes, very much. So I'm saying this with no context for how she can hear things, okay? I'm assuming she can hear stuff. She is just a person struggling with her disability. She's struggling with some sort of low-level emotional disorders. She's struggling with alcohol abuse. I think that person warrants sitting down at a coffee shop, not at your house, and saying, I am telling you I can no longer help.

Here is a sheet where I've printed off all the resources. I'm going to block your number, and I am going to hope that you go get the help and care that you need. It's exceeded my ability to help you. Okay. And that might be a terribly hard conversation to have. And I have a firm principle on my own that I don't say things to people who can't hear them.

So if she can't hear it, if she'll just blow right by it and be like, okay, so what time are you coming to pick me up for then um maybe not responding is the correct path or calling local services and asking them to do a well check on her is the local path um but i i i that's going to be for you to gauge and judge but all that to say is you don't owe um you don't owe a former tenant continued support and services indefinitely. And I don't know that it's honest to call her just a tenant because you invited her into much more of your life than just a tenant. Yeah, yeah. How does that sit with you? No, I agree with that. And I think, I, and I, I know that's where I kind of struggled because I I've come to the

realization that, you know, she's, she saw me as a friend and somebody, yeah, that she could rely on. And I blurred that line with that. And I think, I don't think, I don't personally don't think that she is really open to hearing anything. I mean, she has a very much a victim mentality of that. Then if that's the case, if that's the case, if that's the case, if that's the lens

with which she sees the world, then you already know going into this that her opinion of you has already been shaped. You are another in a long line of people who have victimized her.

So you avoiding that victim judgment that she stamps on theized her. So you avoiding that victim judgment that she stamps on the world, why would you avoid that? It's already happened. And so enter into the conversation, enter into whatever your next move is with your head held high

and be a person of integrity and treat her with dignity and respect and treating somebody with dignity and respect, it doesn't mean that you have to support them indefinitely forever forever amen it means you have to know the scope of your limits i can't do anymore i'm unable to do anymore i don't want to do anymore i gave you three years and this is the like this is as much as i can do right um but you have to make that call for yourself For whatever reason I just I I Take this for what it is. I have a like, uh, just a thing in my guts like in my chest

that Handing her a list of resources to say these are some people who can actually help you with some of the challenges you have I don't have any challenges. That's great um I don't have any challenges. That's great. But I'm unable to help you any further. And so I'm asking you, don't send me any of your texts about midnight terrors. I want you to call this number of the authorities. Don't send me any more texts about somebody trying to poison you. If somebody's trying to poison you, you call 911. I can't help any other way. If somebody kicks you out, here's the local housing authority and on and on and on. And she might not be able to hear it. Cool. You can mail that letter. Um, if that's appropriate,

I don't even know if she has a mailbox address now that I said that, but, um, I feel like letting her, you invited her in, I think letting her know, I'm showing you the door now in whatever way appropriate, whatever way she can hear that feels like the right honorable thing to do. And I do know that it's going to be very hard to do that, that, feels like the right honorable thing to do. And I do know that it's going to be very hard to do that. But it feels like the right thing to do other than just ghosting somebody or just not responding. Unless, of course, that person can't understand a response or a response is not heard in the way the response was intended.

It's an open invitation to reignite the entire fire. So that's a sticky, sticky mess, Jenny. Thank you so much for just walking through it with me and thinking through it with me. And let's do the next right thing. And don't ever lose yourself. And this is not just for use of all of us. May we never lose ourselves by trying to avoid a hard conversation or avoid a confrontation. May we never lose ourselves, trying to avoid a hard conversation or avoid a confrontation. May we never lose ourselves, our integrity, our dignity, our respect for each other and for ourselves piece by piece by piece by piece. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.

Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back, Kelly. Who's the problem? All right, this is from Karina. She says, I had to set a boundary with an in-law

and it ended badly. This person is an extrovert and I am an introvert. Their favorite method of communication is to call and they did this almost daily. I would rather have someone shoot me a text instead of being forced to speak over the phone if it's just a chit chat. I let this go on for far too long because I didn't want to offend them. One day I decided to ignore the phone call and not call them back. It was brought up by them the next time that we spoke. I ended up saying that we need to find a balance because I don't like to talk over the No.

No. Like, there's this unspoken rule that if somebody knocks on your door or somebody calls you or somebody texts you there's like some cosmic law that you have to return it and i just don't buy that you are offering here you go like i'm offering you some information or i'm going to sell you some cookies or i'm reaching out to you like i'm trying to connect with you i get to choose whether i take your end of the plug and put it in. I get to choose that. And then if somebody, because you didn't answer the phone one time,

and you go, oh, yeah, I'm not a phone person. I'm a texter. They never talk to you ever again. I think you've got all the answers that you need. So, yeah. I think I've talked about it on the show show i called my buddy who's a country music guy and i was like hey man when did you change your number and we talked through it and i said i just i get so many calls and so many texts and i just feel it's obligation and he goes yeah you can change your number or you could just be a grown-up and i respond all

the time if you don't have time or the bandwidth or the emotional capacity or whatever's going on. I was like, oh, yeah. I can do it on my own terms. So, yeah, you think so? I agree, 100%. Yep. Well, look at that. What was her name?

Karina. Karina. Anna Karina? What's the play? Anna Karenina. Well, you made that weird. It's Karina. Karina. Ana Karina? What's the play? Ana Karenina. Well, you made that weird. It's Karina. Not all the N-N-N-N-N-N-N-nas.

That's B-A-N-A-N-A-S. Man. Your look is so mean sometimes. All right, Ana Karina N-N-N-N-N-A. You are not the problem. We have deemed whoever else the serial caller is the problem. Man, what a wild world we live in. Hey, man, I just don't have time to talk every day,

but I'll give you a buzz back when I can. I hate you. What a weird world. Wow. Love you guys. Bye.