The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Has Lied to Me for Years

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

In this episode, we talk with a wife whose trust in her husband has been shattered after years of lies, a new mother unsure of how to support her struggling husband, and a business owner totally crippled by social anxiety. Lyrics of the Day: "Little Lies" - Fleetwood Mac Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Churchill Mortgage Resources: Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. I know that when he was a kid, he had a hard life, and lying was part of his life because he had such a hard upbringing. He's got some traumas that he's never actually worked through either. The greatest gift you could give him would be to stop using him, because you're getting something from all of this. Yo, yo, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show for the third time. We had three false starts getting this show off the ground today

because I wasn't at my A game, but I'm there now, or I'm at least a good solid C+. That's passing. That's not passing when Kelly's the teacher. It's got to be an A+, right? You're failing right now. I'm totally kidding.

But you're not really. Hey, if you want to be on this incredible podcast, clearly we've launched out of the gate, just rocking and rolling today. Give me a call 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291. Or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. Talking about mental health, anxiety, relationships, family stuff, depression stuff, whatever's going on in your life. Give me a buzz. Education, schooling, vacations, whatever's, whatever's going on in your life. Give me a bus. Education, schooling, vacations, whatever's happening. Family boundaries, let's do it. JohnDeloney.com slash ask. Quick reminder before we get to the calls, please leave reviews, especially the good ones. The bad ones, do not leave reviews. But tell your friends, keep telling friends about the show that it's just continuing to grow, and I'm so grateful.

We all just kind of have our heads spinning a little bit. But thank you for passing along and continue to spread the word. All right, let's go to Terry in Newport. What's up, Terry? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thank you.

How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm just having a blast. Having a blast. What's up? It's part of the life, right? Yeah, exactly. It's

the, it's that YouTuber life. It's that podcast. That's right. All right. So what's up? So, um, I'm calling because I would like to get a little insight. Um, how can I help my husband navigate away from the life he used to have and the life he wanted and the life he's living and the feeling or need that he needs to lie about things in his past and accept who he is today. Ooh, there's a lot there. Unpack that for me. Yeah. All right. So, um, Hold on before you unpack that. Okay.

Do you hear how much responsibility you've taken on yourself for something you can't possibly fix? I know. I just want to help guide him, though. I know. You love him. Absolutely. I don't even know where we're going, just as you answered that question it's a lot or it's not a lot

it's an impossible task so I don't even know what you're about to ask me and we'll get there but do me a favor as you're telling me this okay will you take a huge deep breath and hold it for a sec and then let it out and I want you to drop your shoulders will you take a huge deep breath and hold it for a sec?

And then let it out. And I want you to drop your shoulders. I want you to intentionally pull them down, like as low as you can get them, away from your ears. Okay? All right. All right. You're carrying a lot.

That's helpful. Thank you. Yeah. Now let's talk about it. Okay. All right. Now we're back. All right, so what's up?

So I've been with my husband 12 years. He's an amazing man. I love him endlessly. We're probably like, I know there's no, I don't believe in soulmates, but we're so greatly matched that I just, I want to help him every step of the way. But in the 12 years, um, I do, I've obviously learned a lot about him. So he's this, he's this big guy. He was the football star, you know, um, his a game in high school. The only problem is he had a learning reading and writing disability and he was classified, never able to have a full-time job from his school.

And he always wanted to be a Marine and he wanted to make his father proud. But with his learning disability, he couldn't pass the ASVAB testing to do that. And so he kind of just kind of skidded through life, and he had kids. He had his first son before he graduated high school, and so he had to go into the working field. And so he's never been able to really grieve, I guess, the life that he wanted. And he feels like he's still trying to prove that he was good enough. And so when we met, he had told me he was a former Marine and things like that. And there's other various non-truths that he's told me.

And I've learned throughout our marriage and it almost broke our marriage, but I also think he may also be on the spectrum, but he's never, I don't know that he's ever been tested for that. And so I just want to help him to move past that. And I know that when he was a kid, he had a hard life and lying was part of his life because he had such a hard upbringing and he's got some traumas that he's never actually worked through either. So I'm just curious

how I can help him move through that. What just came to my mind is going to sound really harsh. Okay? Yeah. Can I just let it all out with you? Absolutely. I'm going to do this, but we're on the same team, right? Yes.

Okay. Oh, man. The greatest gift you could give him would be to stop using him. Okay. Because you're getting something from all of this. All right. And whether it's caretaking or whether it's you get to really make somebody who has never been loved feel loved and that feels good. You're continuing to, the way you even phrase it. You started the call by saying how much you loved him and how great and how wonderful he is. He just has some non-truths. Another way to say that is he's been lying to you for the entirety of your marriage.

Not about trivial things, about huge things. You married a veteran. Yeah, I thought I did. Who wasn't a veteran. I thought I married someone who'd never been married before. He had been married before. That's right. Yeah.

These are major. And you can say, the fact that you can say to your knowledge he's never been tested, y'all been married for 12 years. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so the hard thing is you're getting something out of this arrangement. What is it? I wish I knew. Are you getting security out of it? Are you getting

love unconditional? What are you getting? I know he loves me unconditionally as well, because I mean, our marriage almost fell apart because I had to step away for a little while, because when my dad died, it woke me up to some things. And so I had to step away for six months. And through the six months, he was still very, you know, text me every day, call me every day, need to know how I was doing. He was worried about me and my well-being. What woke you up when your dad passed? When I found out that my husband hadn't served in the Marine Corps, it was the only thing I ever out that my husband

hadn't served in the Marine Corps it was the only thing I ever lied to my father about and when my dad thought he had hurt my mother had corrected my dad on well he never served so my dad called me and said somebody in the family is lying about him and I love this man he's my son now

and so I couldn't bring myself to tell my dad the truth and so it's the only thing I've ever lied to my father about. So I had to step away and really think about things and where I wanted, what I wanted out of this relationship and him. So that's what I had. I felt I had to do. So I stepped away for a little bit. So, and you... It was hard.

What brought you back? We're in a really good place now. I do try to correct him on things. You try to correct him how? What does that mean? Call him out on when he's not being true. Like, he's not doing... I don't feel it's malicious intent.

I just feel that he has shame for his past. Hey, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen. You are not being honest with yourself. Our pasts are real, and they cause long-term behavioral shifts. There's a biochemical process there. There is a behavioral process. There's a habituation process there. There is a behavioral process. There's a habituation process there. There's all these different reasons.

Yeah. I didn't even know about the ACEs score until I started listening to your show. And I have a very high ACEs score myself. That's what I'm getting at. Somewhere along the way, you came to believe that this is what you are worth and you're not. And if your husband's got special needs and he's got learning disabilities that prohibit him from telling the truth, that prohibit him from seeing reality as it is, there's much bigger issues going on here but your continual you continue to brush

very hurtful behavior under a rug because of things that happened to him a long time ago he's a grown adult with kids and a wife of over a decade two wives yeah he's got to grow up.

And he's got to act like an adult. And he's got to get the healing that he needs to get done. And he's got to get the resources that he needs to overcome his learning disabilities and his learning challenges, or as they call them now, learning exceptionalities. And there's too many resources out there but i don't know any outside of some outside of the bell curve psychiatric disorders where just lying about big huge rock things is something that somebody can't control and more importantly because he's not on the phone with me right now yeah

you, Terry you're worth being married to somebody who didn't lie to you about everything I know and you're worth it's deeper than that though because you can't put both feet on the ground because you don't know where the ground is solid and lying is one part of it, what else is there? because you don't know where the ground is solid.

And lying is one part of it. What else is there? Are you safe? Absolutely. I've never felt safer with anybody. He is so protective over myself and our daughter. I know it sounds oxymoronic with what you just said, but he's very caring when it comes to me and my child, as far as whether we're loved and we're safe. Um,

but I just, I wanted to help him kind of see, recognize what he's doing. And cause I don't, sometimes I don't think he recognizes it. So if what you're asking me is how can you help him recognize it? As you sit down and you say, when you lie, I don't feel safe and I don't feel loved.

Okay. And if you continue to lie and make me feel unsafe and unloved, I'm going to decide to not be in this relationship anymore because you are telling me that your feeling of inadequacy is more important than me being loved and safe. Okay. Your need to make up stories about your past and your present and your future so that you don't have to face reality makes me feel untethered and unsafe and it makes me really feel worried about our daughter

okay and then he gets to be an adult and make some really hard choices is he going to get the mental health care that he needs is he going to get the does he he have a job? Is he working? Absolutely. He's actually a foreman for our local government road things. He does one, he's an amazing worker. He works night and day, you know, to provide for us and everything. Awesome. He's one of those big, you know, like how you always talk about you're a big Texas guy and big strong men don't have feelings. It's definitely, um, yeah.

So at some point, and maybe it's, you decided to go to a, a, a, a counselor. Okay. A therapist. Um, have you been to, have you seen somebody? Um, I've been looking into it. I'm trying to find someone in my local area. What is your, uh, ACEs score? Uh, it's a seven or an eight. Yeah. I've had a pretty traumatic childhood myself. Okay. Will you stop looking into it and just make a call? Yeah.

You promise? I do promise. I've already taken the steps for my daughter to have that. Okay. You are taking care of everybody in your life except for terry which is a really common thing for somebody who had to survive their entire life true yes okay i want you to love terry as much as you love this husband of yours i want you to love terry as much as you love your daughter.

Because somewhere along the way some things happened to you that should not have happened. And that communicated stories to you of what your value was. And it was less than everybody else. Is that right? Yeah.

It's not true. It's not true. It's not true. Thank you. You don't believe me, though, and I'm okay with that. You will believe me over time if you'll go talk to somebody, okay? Yeah, I did it when I was a child. But after certain things happened, my parents did put me in it. But, you know, financial things and stuff like that,

I can't always continue to do it. I know, I know. It's incredibly expensive and it's cost prohibitive and it's a national disgrace in some cases. Yeah, I completely agree with that. But it is what it is. It's where we're at, okay? Right now, this is more important. I mean, you've read the data on that stuff. I mean, the likelihood that your life is going to be way more challenging

and way shorter because of those experiences because your body is still trying to protect you. I don't want that for you. I don't want that for your little girl. I don't want that for your husband. I want you all to have peace. Me too. I know you do. It'd be amazing. I know you do. What's the one thing keeping you from taking that step? Because you called me wanting to fix your husband. Yeah, I want to help all three of us, you know. Okay, but I think you've heard it said a million times. Helping him recognize the traits.

I know his sister had offered to pay for us to do couples therapy and he didn't want anything to do with that. He wanted to work on it on our own. I think I'm making some headway with him, but I'm not quite there yet because I feel that we all need it. There is going to come a moment

when you have to say, this is the way this is going to be. Yeah. Okay. And my hope is on the other side of you meeting with a good trauma counselor and working through some of this awful stuff

that happened to you. And in addition to the awful stuff that happened to you, just parents dropping their kid off at a counselor's office once a week and not providing a healing environment at home isn't helpful either. Okay. Okay?

You've been through a lot. That little body of yours has been through a lot. It has, yeah. And that little teenager, that little girl that's been protecting you for a long time, she's really freaking tired right now. I can imagine. She's amazing. Yes, you do because she's you, but you haven't connected the dots yet, and that's

what trauma does. It disconnects us from everything. That little girl is something special. And so is grown-up Terry. And the only person that can't see that is Terry. Mm-hmm. Do you ever feel like if you started crying you would never be able to stop yep yes here's the thing and counts as a gross a word but it counts we call it leakage you can deal with it and let it out or it will find its way out and it usually finds its way out in a really inopportune times. Okay. Yeah. To answer your

original question, you can't, there's nothing you're not doing. Your husband isn't lying to you for anything that you've done. Right. That's on him. Those are choices he's making. And I've got my own stuff in my past that I will never speak about publicly ever. I just won't. And what I'll tell you is all of us have choices to make when we're grownups, right?

Yep. And at some point he needs to choose to quit lying to the single most important person in his life that's a choice he's going to make it's not because of his childhood it's because of his adult choices and you can't fix that or heal that or you're not doing anything wrong okay my hope is on the back end of this you're going to listen back and you're going to hear, I mean, you are, you are trauma 101. Everybody who's hurting in your life

is your fault. Your kids are struggling because of stuff you're not doing right. What do you need to be doing to help your husband not fill in the blank? Lie to you,

be disrespectful to you, not pay, pay for stuff. You know what I mean? Like all we can get on a list. Yeah. That's you at the epicenter because everything's your fault and it's not. It's not.

Okay. Okay. Will you say the words out loud? I'm worth being well. I am worth being well. And I'm going to make a call. I'm going to make a call. And then I'm going to show up. I will show up.

Awesome. Will you keep me in the loop on how they go? Yes. Okay. Make no bones about it, Terry. It's going to be hell going forward. It's going to be hard. Okay?

It's going to be hard. If you think of it like this, when you have surgery, they actually take a knife and they cut you open to get out whatever's wrong or to fix the bone that's broken or to get out the tumor or whatever they actually hurt you more during surgery it hurts and you bleed and it's tough and then they take care of you and they close up the wound and then you start a healing process and then you go to rehab and then all of a sudden you wake up and you are stronger than you ever imagined. And it's time. I'm sorry that somebody hurt you. I'm sorry that somebody continues to hurt you and calls it love. You're worth being well. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist.

Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for just about any schedule. You just get online and you fill out a short survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist

and you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to Arizona and talk to Jordan. What's up, Jordan? Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you?

Pretty good. All right. So what's up? All right. My husband and I have a three-month-old daughter, and he's really, really great with her. But fairly often, he gets really frustrated so fast. He's so frustrated so fast with himself when she's crying that he can't calm her or whatever's going on. And then he just shuts down for the rest of the day. Um, because in his words, he thought he'd be better than this. And I've tried to encourage him to tell him that he really is doing great.

She's a baby. She can only cry. She can't communicate. Um, and he's not really doing anything wrong. He just gets so frustrated with himself, um, because he thought he'd be better.

And he's so good with Denise and his nephews, but he's struggling with his own child. Is this your first kid? Yes. Oh, my gosh. Can you have him call me? Because I've been here. I've been here.

Yeah. Oh, man. And I've told him it's all so normal, but he just can't get past it sometimes in his own head, and he just gets stuck there in his own head. In his words, he gets depressed for a day or so, and then he'll come back. But I just don't know, and I guess my question is how to keep encouraging him without telling him what to do or to be degrading. I just want him to know he's actually doing well and then not get so hurt and down on himself. Yes. All of this is easier said than done.

And here's my guess. You said he's really good with nieces and nephews? Is he the fun uncle? They're all fun. He's one of five uncles. Okay. Oh, man. All right.

So here's, I'll tell you, because he's not on the phone with me, so I'll just speak to you and to the people listening, okay? Number one, thank you so much for calling. This is a call, one of those calls that will end up doing really well because it's going to help a lot of folks, okay?

Your husband has probably been telling himself for a long time, he's going to be better than all the other dads. And he is going to be the dad who shows up and is present with his daughter and he is going to raise a great daughter right am i on the right track yeah he's going to be the dad and he's got some experience with kids not real experience but pretend experience he's played and got a lot of laughs and done some wrestling. And he is the cool, one of several cool uncles. And so it gives a false sense of what the day in and day out is like.

And then you have a newborn that is basically like a wet potato that screams, right? It's just like a towel. And I was wholly unprepared for how, what a complete failure I was. But here's why. I chalked up success to I could get my daughter and son to stop crying. They would smile when I came in the room.

They would always want to reach out to me. And even though I would never say this out loud, I wanted to be the cool parent. I wanted my kids when they were like three months, four months, five months old, when they don't even know what's, they know nothing other than food, sleep, and cha-cha, right? I wanted to be the cool, I wanted to be like the dad that the kid reached for instead of mom. And I'd be like, sorry, hon, he loves me more or she loves me more, like whatever. And none of that happened because I have no food. I, none of it happened. And so here was a huge bellwether moment for me. I came home from class one day and it was one, I was getting another, I was back in grad school again, like an idiot. And, um, I, my son was two, I think. And I came home and he was waddle walking,

you know, as they do. And he could say a few words. He's pretty late talker. And he shows up at the front door as I'm walking in. And I said, Hey, Bubba, come give me a hug. Cause I wanted to be that dad that always came in and dropped all my stuff. And was present with the kids. And blah, blah, blah, blah. And he looked at me and said, no, daddy. And he turns and sprints down the hall in his little waddle walkie way. Come to think about it, our favorite game.

His only way of engaging with me, right? Because I don't have food. And his way of engaging with me was playing tag, playing hide and seek, playing silly, rambunctious games. And so his way of saying, I love you and I'm so glad to see you was, let's go right into playing a game. And when he said, no daddy, and turned off down the hallway, my first thought in my mind was, of course, because you suck at being a dad. You're never here. You're not right. And then this internal dialogue about how lame I was starts. I'm going to be a failure just like every other stupid dad. My own son doesn't even want to hug me. And now I'm off to the races, right? And so here was a big moment for me. And I'm saying this and you can pass this

along to your husband. Just know he's not going to hear you. There's no way he hears this, okay? But it'll feel good for you to say it out loud. The phrase here, he doesn't get a vote. She doesn't get a vote. Why? Because she's three months old and she doesn't have permission to hurt my feelings. And it took me a while with my son. And then when my daughter came along, it was even more hard because she weaponizes love because she's my little girl and she's hilarious about it. But I had to decide my children don't have permission to hurt my feelings. And that was the magic for me. And now I can say, hey, this is what we're having for dinner.

I'm not eating that. It's yuck. That's not knock your lights out. I worked really hard on this. I think it's delicious. And so this is what we're having. And I'm not going to let you hurt my feelings. Because as a society, we have decided because your brains don't work properly,

you can't drink, you can't buy beer, you can't buy guns, lottery tickets, you can't sign contracts. And so why in the world would I give you access to my feelings and emotions? See what I'm saying? Yeah. So this is something your husband's going to have to practice. Okay. And that's going to be hard for both of you. I do think it's important for you if when he is unplugging and checking out and going off, it sounds like he gets depressed. Can I tell you what it really is?

It's a temper tantrum. Okay. It's a childish response to not getting his way because he wanted the baby to reach out and hug him and the baby just screams and cries until mom picks her up. It's a temper tantrum. And he's going to have to decide, all right, I'm not letting this three-month-old have a vote into my life

and I'm going to keep showing up because I'm an adult and that's what adults do. We keep showing up. We keep showing up. We keep showing up. I'm going to change the diaper. I'm going to keep showing up because I'm an adult. And that's what adults do. We keep showing up. We keep showing up. We keep showing up. I'm going to change the diaper. I'm going to change the diaper. I'm going to do it wrong.

She's going to kick and scream even when I'm doing it right. I'm going to feed with the bottle and she's going to still scream for mom. And you're going to get frustrated and he's going to get frustrated. But I'm going to keep showing up. And I'm going to keep showing up. I'm going to keep showing up. Right? That's what parenting is.

And what y'all need to have, the conversation y'all can have is less about how he's feeling because he's going to practice over time not letting this little girl hurt his heart. Right? Because he's the adult and she's a child. What y'all, you need to be clear with him about

is what you need on the show up times. Even when you don't feel like it, here's what I need you to show up. Here's what I need you to show up. Even though you don't feel like it, here's what I need you to show up. Here's what I need you to show up. Even though you don't feel like it, I need you to keep showing up. Does that make sense? That's maturity.

That's adults. Yeah. Okay. Does he get hard to be around when he gets depressive? Or gets, it gets pissy? It doesn't really get pissy. He just gets so sad.

Like it hurts me. Like, and I feel so bad because I can't help him in those moments. Yeah. So this is a phrase that's, it's going to make the internet's not too happy with me. That's fine. He has to choose. He's got to stop choosing sadness. Okay. And that's hard because it's like, you can't choose that. And if you just feel sad, I'm going to choose. Or when that initial, oh my gosh, my daughter hates me. Then it's very clear. No, she doesn't. She's three months old.

She's just hungry. She is in her, what, the fourth trimester, right? She's still developing, right? She's a, yeah, anyway, that's a whole other conversation. He's got to start choosing to not just go down the rabbit hole of sadness and worry and it's all coming down and I just suck at this and I hate my daughter, hates me. She doesn't, right? No.

I mean, and she smiles at him when she smiles at me. Like she loves him and it's very obvious, but then there's the moment where she needs something and she can't tell us and the switch flips so fast. Yeah. It's just a big kid temper tantrum that he's doing. And so, and I say that like having done a million of them myself and also saying this on the back end of this thing, choosing, like making the affirmative decision.

I'm not gonna let my kids hurt my feelings. I'm going to be the adult in this interaction. My body relaxed and kids pick up tension. When you hold the kid and you're tense, they feel that and it feels uncomfortable for them. When you're relaxed and you're hanging on to them, they could settle into that. And kids pick up that angst and they pick up that anxiety

and they pick up that tense feeling, those tense muscles. Am I doing this right? I don't know if I, and they don't want to be around that. And so when I quit giving kids access to my soul, like you don't get to hurt my feelings, then I'd be much more relaxed. And then when I'm much more relaxed, kids are much more likely to lean into that. And then with my daughter, I've talked about this on the show,

like age three, age four, she was so all about her mom, especially during COVID when they were at home together and I was at work, she wanted nothing to do with me. And it really was heartbreaking. Like she would say, daddy, I don't ever want to hug you ever. And I'd say, thank you for sharing that with me. And I'd go in my room and be like, oh, I'm the worst, right? And then just hang in there.

And I kept showing up and I kept showing up. And now it's Hugfest 2000. Last night, my wife and I and my daughter went to get tacos and burritos at this local joint here. And I saw my daughter and dude, it was, she squeezed my neck off my body and it felt so good in my soul. So tell your husband it's coming. It's going to come. He's got to keep showing up.

He's got to keep showing up. He's got to choose, choose joy and choose, choose, choose to keep showing up. Great, great. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful for this call. Jordan, you're choose to keep showing up. Great. Great. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful for this call, Jordan. You're awesome. We'll be right back. All right. One more. Let's go to, uh, Brad in St. Louis, Missouri. What's up, Brad? Hello, John. What's up, man? Hey, thanks for so much for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up, dude?

I got a situation in life. I'm looking to get some advice on how to move forward with it. Okay. I've struggled with social anxiety for years. Oh, man. Recently, I went through a... I'm just kind of emerging out of a dark hole, depression and social anxiety. And the situation was I had a construction company. And it totally, the social part of it kind of wiped me out.

And I had to sell my business and I got out of it. And I've been kind of recuperating for the last few months here. I've had enough money to be able to do that. But I'm wondering how to move forward now. I'm wondering if I should be, you know, I need to find a job at some point to get something going here.

Yeah. How long have you struggled with social anxiety? I think it's been since my childhood. Okay. Is your heart, is your heart beating pretty fast on this call? It is. Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to stop and say you're a brave guy. Okay. Yeah. If people have never struggled with social anxiety before,

just imagine walking up on stage, buck naked and then waving with both hands, right? That's what it feels like just to go have a normal conversation, right? It does, yeah. So tell me, I want to challenge you.

I'm a fellow anxiety guy myself. Okay, so is it okay if I push on you a little bit? Yep, for sure. You said you had to sell your business. I don't believe that. Convince me. Why'd you have to sell it?

I guess I made that choice to sell it. Oh, look at that, dude. You're already better. Okay. So why did you choose to sell it? I just had so much anxiety dealing with people that I basically felt like I couldn't, like you said, my heart was thumping out of my chest every time I went to talk to somebody or visit with somebody or deal with one of my employees. Okay. So.

Basically, I didn't have the mental capacity at that point to deal with anything. Were you the owner operator of the company? Yes, I was. So two of my first jobs in the university settings were because my bosses were brilliant and very strategic thinkers, great writers. They did not like public speaking. And that's why they hired me. They hired the parts that were challenging for them. They would have been very uncomfortable with all the public speaking that goes into a lot of those public facing jobs. So they hired me, that was my job. And I had to learn how to do

budgets on the backend. So my question to you is, what kept you from keeping your business and hiring somebody that would help, um, do the things that you didn't like doing or didn't feel comfortable doing? Um, even the thought of, even the thought of that at the time was, was too much to handle, you know? Okay. I, I basically kind of tried to do everything myself. And I pushed, I've done it in the past. I've pushed through everything. But then I would hit a limit and I would back out. You know, I pushed myself with the help of lots of caffeine

and maybe some sugar and just keep going, you know? Yeah. But that can only get me so far, you know? That's right. That's a strategy you've used for your entire life, isn't it? Yes, it is. Would you be willing to do something different for the first time? Yeah, I would.

Okay. Let me promise you something, okay? I had anxiety so bad, I couldn't look at a stock market chart I would go in buildings at the university where I worked at I would go to different buildings and take different avenues in because I knew there was a stock ticker

in one of the like the MBA classrooms I couldn't look at TV screens because I never knew if there was going to be that little ticker underneath it or the stock market on one side for some reason my brain I was in 2008, 2009, it just connected to that. I couldn't be in the room with it. And then it got prohibitive,

right? Because I was in these business meetings where we were talking about the future of the company and all this. I couldn't do it. I had to step out of these meetings where I'd start causing scene, not a scene, but I would try to distract the conversation. And that was just one of several. Okay. And so I'm telling you that to tell you this, on the back, I now work at a finance company.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like my boss teaches people how to get out of debt. And so I tell you that there's healing like you wouldn't believe

on the other side. Does the idea of sitting with people and just having a hilarious conversation and dumping water on somebody and being goofy and having them throw water, is that enticing to you? That'd be so cool

if we could ever do that one day. Yeah. Okay. Do you trust me that you can get there? I trust you, but I trust myself. You're like, nope, nope, nope. Hey, that's cool, man. Hey, that's totally fine.

You don't have to trust me. I'll prove it to you, okay? Okay. Alright, here's a couple of things that you've probably been told this over time, but I'm going to say them out loud again. Alright, and here's what we'll do. We'll cut this episode

and I'll have them send it to you today or tomorrow and you don't have to wait for it to come out in whenever it comes out, okay? Okay. Number, and I want you to have these things. Number one,

when you have social anxiety, avoidance makes it worse. And you start thinking about meeting with people, and then the machine spins up, right? Right, yep. And then it spins up, and now you're worried about the machine spinning up. You're not even worried about the people anymore.

You're pre-worried about the worry, right? Yeah, yeah. And then you open the moment, the second you open your eyes, your heart starts beating faster. Yep. Is that your experience? Yeah, exactly.

Okay. And then once that, what happens is that once they get into it, a lot of times it subsides. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Here's the challenge. It's a crazy glitch in the matrix on how anxiety works. All anxiety is, is a smoke alarm in your kitchen.

Okay? It's all it is. It's just letting you know, hey, we don't think this is safe. And it also goes off when you're lonely. And so if you struggle from social anxiety, it always is going off because you're lonely or now you're about to be around people And they're not safe now. We're lonely and so it never stops and that that what you described perfectly is

I just got to a point where I had to sell everything and just quit It's like being in a in a kitchen and the smoke alarm's going off and it's so loud and your kids and your wife are just Acting like nothing's wrong and finally you have to go out in the yard because it's so loud, right? That's what social anxiety is, okay? You're not broken. You're not deficient. There's just something in your head that has identified the thought, not actually other people,

the thought of being with other people as something that is scary and going to hurt us. So let's sound the alarms. And the goal is over time to just teach your body, hey, I hear that. I hear the alarm, but it's all good. It's all good. And we're going to teach our body over time. Okay? So number one, avoidance makes it worse. Number two, curiosity, not war. Here's what I mean by that. When your your alarms set off if you immediately try to shut them down to power through to push through to flex really tight your brain will think oh he doesn't

hear me let's make them louder versus the anxiety alarms go off your heart starts beating faster you wake up and you can hardly drink your coffee. And then you get curious. Why is my body trying to keep me alive? There's nobody coming at me with a hatchet. What's the deal here? Oh, I got these two meetings today. I love Dan and Jim.

And there's going to be one uncomfortable conversation. I'm going to have Bill do that. I don't want to talk to that guy. Or I'm going to fire this guy and this is going to be really uncomfortable for me. So I'm going to write this do that. I don't want to talk to that guy. Or I'm going to fire this guy and this is going to be really uncomfortable for me. So I'm going to write this one down because this one's going to hard. This one's going to not be fun.

You see what I'm doing there? I'm being curious with my body, not getting mad at it. I'm not, because when you get mad at it, then you start pre-worrying about the worry that you're going to have about the anxiety that comes later.

See what I'm saying? Yep. Here's the main way to say that. Stay out of your head. Do you keep something with you you can write down? I don't. No, I haven't. Okay. I'm holding this up.

If you see this on the YouTube channel, you can laugh at me all you want, and I wish I had a cooler name for this. I put cool stickers like Yeti and like Be Wilder and like a GORUCK stickers and stuff on it because I'm trying to make myself feel tougher. You know what this is? Like if I really am just honest with it, this is a stories journal, a thoughts journal. And anytime my body starts to take off on me, I just write it down real quick.

That's it. And I got it for nine bucks at Walmart. I might make one one day that's like $40 and make it all nice and leathery. But really, I just keep it with me at all times in my backpack. And I keep it out here when I'm doing shows right here. I might think of something like you really sucked at that answer. I'll write that down real quick. And here's what I'm doing.

I'm getting it out of my body. I'm staying out of my head. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's the third word I want to give you. Practice. Here's what I mean by that. You got to stop worrying.

And worry is an addiction. And here's what I mean. Have you ever sat in the shower and had an imaginary conversation with somebody that you will never have in real life? Yeah. Do you ever, are you ever driving and you start rehearsing conversations you're going to have with employees and people and other contractors and your kids and

whatever? Yeah. Or call with you. Yeah. How many times did you rehearse this call? Oh, probably 20 times in the last 10 minutes Before I was on the phone with you Okay, just listening to you talk right now

Your voice is different because you're smiling Your shoulders are dropped I can hear your shoulders down As crazy as that sounds What you thought was going to happen didn't happen. Right. Is what you think is going to happen, does it ever happen?

Maybe a few times. And did you live? Yeah, I survived it. Ta-da! Way to go, dude. You already, you see? Right.

Okay, so here's what we're going to do. I read your book. Okay. I read your book about the Right. Okay. So here's what we're going to do. Go ahead. I read your book. Okay. I read your book about the backpack. Okay. And one of the backpacks that it feels like I'm carrying is that I won't have the right words to say to people. I'm kind of a quiet guy. And a lot of times when I'm going into a situation, that's a lot of times what is preventing me from succeeding

it feels like is that backpack okay and here's how do i put that backpack down a hundred percent promise you're not always gonna have the right words to say yeah and what i found um going into homes and telling mothers that their babies had died or that their sons had taken their own lives, that the fewer words are often the better. And so here's a, I actually, if you go back on YouTube and look at the trailer for this show, one of the calls that I made sure we put in there was me saying, I don't know the answer to this one. I've never heard this before. And I'm laughing because my identity is not tied in always having the right things to say. My identity is tied in sitting with people when they're struggling. You see the difference?

Right. And so what I want you to practice is not worrying about having the right things to say, because you're not ever going to have the right things to say. So here's a fun exercise I want you to do this afternoon. I want you to get a cinder block, okay? And I want you to put a piece of masking tape on it, and I want you to get a magic marker and write on the magic on that cinder block, always having the right thing to say, and I want you to carry it around your house

for 10 or 15 or 20 minutes. I'm serious. It's going to suck. Your arm's going to be burning. You're going to have to pass it from one hand to the next. Okay? Set a timer for 15 or 20 minutes.

And then at some point, you're going to have to decide, I don't care to have the right things to say anymore. And then I want you to take it out in the backyard and I want you to drop it and never pick it up again.

And here's what practice means. The moment that worry lightning bolts into your head, I'm not going to know what to say. That's when you interrupt the thought. That's when you stop the worry and you say, I don't have to worry, but I don't have to have everything to say. I don't have to have anything to say right now because I'm freaking Brad from St. Louis.

Ta-da. You know what I mean? Yep, I do. And then you're going to go into a situation and A, you're going to know a lot more to say than you think you do. And on those moments when you don't know what to say, you can say the words,

I don't know what to say right now. I'm going to have to get back with you on that. I need a day to think about this. And that's what you're going to practice and you're going to practice and you're going to practice until your body doesn't sound the alarms. Your body begins to know, oh, Brad's got this.

He's driving. He sees that big bear at the front of the cave. He sees that tiger in the field. We don't have to sound the alarm. He sees it. We're good. Now we just have to run or we have to fight it. See what I'm saying?

Yeah, I do. Okay. Avoidance makes it worse. The one thing about anxiety is you got to lean into it. Okay? Yeah, that's the scary part. It is. It is.

You won't die. You won't. Okay? Anxiety won't kill you. Running from it might. Okay? Yeah. You got to be curious and not go to war with your body.

Ask yourself, why am I so worried about this? And number three, don't worry. Stop worrying and practice not worrying. Practice interrupting that thought pattern. Okay? I want you to stay on the line. I'm going to send you, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to send you three copies of Redefining Anxiety. It's a book I wrote before Own Your Past, Change Your Future. And I want you to read one. I want your wife to read one. And if you got kids age 15 or older, I want them to read it. And it's going to give your family a common language that y'all can talk about at home. Here's another thing that's unpopular and I don't care. It might be, Brad, that you go sit down with a psychiatrist. And

for a season, anxiety meds helped me. And again, if you listen to the show a lot, I'm not a guy who goes to meds first. I'm just not. But meds were helpful in turning the alarm volume down for me so that I could practice some of these things. And if you've been struggling with this since you were a little kid,

that might help. And let your doctor know, I let my doctor know when I walked in the door, I'm not gonna put a pill in my mouth until I have a plan for us to get off this. And my doctor was like, awesome. And we worked together and it was fantastic. The pill didn't solve the problem.

It just helped me be able to create an environment where I could go get the help that I needed. And it was awesome. I got to talk to a counselor. I got some great friends. I started exercising. I started practicing these things I'm talking about here. I started leaning into the discomfort and the healing on the back end is something you can't even imagine, Brad. You just got to trust me. It's worth it. You got to trust me that it's worth it. And I'll tell you from the countless people who've written to me

from all over the country, leaning into anxiety and changing your thoughts, really working on it, can happen. And there's peace on the other end of this deal. So proud of you, Brad, for making the call. So proud of you, man. Rehearsing tragedy is a waste of your time. Laughter and joy and connection are not. So let's practice and we'll get there.

We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life.

Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back as we wrap up today's show. Kelly decided to just go right here on the nose with this one. Are you a Fleetwood Mac fan? Oh, huge. Huge? Yeah, the Rumors album, it's just hard to beat that. Oh, you have the word Rumors tattooed on your arm.

I didn't know what that was about. I thought you were like just a gossip queen, but very cool. Fleetwood Mac fan. I did not. It doesn't match with your Harry Styles tattoo, but it works. It super works. All right. The song of the day, Fleetwood Mac. A little bit on the nose for this show, but the song is Little Lies and it goes like this. If I could turn the page in time, I'd rearrange just a day or two and close my, close my, close my eyes. They said that a lot.

But I couldn't find a way, so I'll settle for one day to believe in you. Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies. You can't disguise. I can't finish. You can't disguise, Kelly. Just tell me sweet, sweet little lies. I'm not going to lie to you.

I'm not on this show. We'll see you soon.