The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Has Pictures of Naked Women

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

On this episode, we hear about: -       A wife unsettled by what she found on her husband’s phone -       A husband struggling with his wife’s hoarding -       A woman wondering how to stop people pleasing Next Steps 📞 Ask John a question! Leave a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or click here: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/shows/the-dr-john-delony-show/ask-a-question 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life: https://ter.li/TDJDSBNAL 📝 Anxiety Test: https://bit.ly/460QXUp 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future: https://ter.li/TDJDSOYP ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards:https://ter.li/TDJDSQFH 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation: https://bit.ly/3MAGpEV ❤️ Money & Marriage Event: https://ramseysolutions.com/getaway   Offers From Today's Sponsors   -       10% off your first month of therapy at BetterHelp: https://bit.ly/3seoBCe  -       3 free months of Hallow:  https://www.hallow.com/delony  -       25% off Thorne orders: https://www.thorne.com/u/delony -       Save up to $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod: https://eightsleep.com/delony  -       15% off your Apollo Neuro order: https://apolloneuro.com/pages/delony-lp?utm_source=delony&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=lander -       Save 20% on Organifi orders: https://www.organifishop.com/pages/delony   Listen to More From Ramsey Network   🎙️ The Ramsey Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.    Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy   X (@johndelony) Instagram (@johndelony) Facebook (facebook.com/johndelony/)

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. We were going through some pictures on his phone, and I saw some pictures of some naked women. I think he thought it wasn't a big deal. And for me, I don't think the picture being there is as much of a big deal as these women do not look like me. That's me feeling a little bit insecure, it seems like. Yes. What's up, what's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show.

Show about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, parenting, your kids, whatever you got going on in your life. We're here to help. Give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. And if you want to be on the show, leave a message or shoot me an email at johndeloney.com slash ask A-S-K. And please don't forget to write a review, like, subscribe, all the things. It makes such an important difference and it helps us with getting interviews.

It helps us with increasing that algorithmic footprint. And that's not even a word. I just made that up. Does that make me sound techie? That was very fancy. You sounded very, very smart there. That's my word for 2024. Algorithmic footprint.

Is fancy. Is that your band name? No Algorithmic footprint. Is fancy. Is that your band name? No. I just want to be fancy. I want to be delightful and fancy. Did you know that's my word for 2024? Delightful or fancy? When I come into a room, people go like this.

It's a lot. Or they go, oh, God. I want to be like when I walk into a room, I want people to be delighted that I'm there. And when I met with somebody to talk through this, they were like, you're going to have to change everything about you, like the way you move, like the way you walk. Like, I just walk heavy.

I walk heavy, and I'm loud. And they're like, that's not delightful. That's a lot. And a lot's good, but it's a lot. Yeah, I'm the same way. I mean, I'm a lot, and I'm loud usually, that's not delightful. That's a lot. And a lot's good, but it's a lot. Yeah, I'm the same way. I mean, I'm a lot. And I'm loud usually, but I get it. Being on time would be delightful.

Delightful. Delightful. When I had to go pull you out of a meeting just a minute ago, delightful wasn't the word I used. It wasn't. I didn't use any words, if you noticed. You didn't use any words? But I thought you might have felt that I wasn't delighted to have been in that conversation.

No. I could tell you were having a conversation. You clearly, because you bolted out. Weren't delighted about it. When I opened that door, you were like, I gotta go, bye! Well, that's because I'm terrified of you. There's that also. All right, let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and talk to Paige.

Hey, Paige, what's up? Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's happening? All right, let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and talk to Paige. Hey, Paige, what's up? Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's happening? All right. So me and my husband, we've been together almost eight years now, married almost two.

Recently, we were going through some pictures on his phone, and I saw some pictures of some naked women on his phone. I'm not laughing at you at all. I'm laughing like for a bunch of reasons. Like are these friends or girlfriends? Are they just random? No, they're actually like porn stars and amateur porn stars. Just like random naked women that he doesn't know.

And he's like, cool. I think I'm just going to keep this in my, in my phone photo library. Yeah. It's like, I think, I believe, you know, he was using them like to refer back to like later. Oh, so he wouldn't forget like, Oh, he screenshot him like, Oh, this is, this is one in my harem. And my, okay.

So what about, Hey, uh, we're looking in my phone that he didn't go, uh, let me run to the bathroom real quick and delete. I mean, what was,

what was he doing? Do you think it's not a big deal? No, he like wasn't hiding it. You know, it seemed like he was real open about it. Like we've been really open throughout our whole relationship about pornography and masturbation.

I think he thought it wasn't a big deal. For me, I don't think the picture being there is as much of a big deal as these women do not look like me. That's left me feeling a little bit insecure, it seems like. I'm feeling differently about it this time. That's because you're feeling insecure about it just because you're human, but you're running up against a dichotomy. You're running up against, oh, it's not a big deal,

and your body is telling you this hurts. And it's like, no, we're super open about everything, but he didn't know that. That means, by definition, you're not open about things. Because you haven't told him, I don't like this. Yeah. I don't like it in you. I don't like it in our home. I don't like it in your phone.

And you haven't told him that. And so there's like this air of like, no, I want to be cool, girl. And yet here we are. Is that fair? Yeah, I think that's fair. So why have you silenced yourself all these years? I'm not really sure because I don't think it really, I'm not sure it bothered me so much. It's like now we're at a different stage in our life.

We're married. We have two daughters now. And I think, you know, more I don't want it to be in our life because of our daughters now. It's like something has changed for me that wasn't always there before about how I felt about it. Do you know what that change is? I guess I just feel like he might be like

being subjective to women. I just don't like the idea of him making these objects of like I'm gonna save these women on my phone even though I don't even know these women. As though they're mine now. Right, yeah. Almost like these are my possessions that I'm going to hold onto my bed for,

so I can refer back to them later whenever I would like. And how jarring is it to see daughter, daughter, wife, daughter, daughter, wife, amateur porn star? Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's tough. But we talked about it. We've talked about it since then. Actually, the same day that I noticed them and that, you know, it was brought to my attention and he was receptive of how I felt. It actually made him feel uncomfortable too. I guess me seeing it made him realize I was hurt. So it kind of hurt him too. And he since then has removed said material from his phone. And he's been real open about how, you know, apologetic he is about it. And it's not going to happen anymore. He doesn't want to

like be that way anymore. He doesn't want to have other women in his phone. But you don't believe him? No, I think I do believe him. But for me, it's like I can't get over how it still made me feel the way these women look. It's like, is my husband attracted to me or is he attracted to these other women? The answer is probably yes on both counts. Okay. So how do you think I am going to be able to move forward?

Cause he's been very clear our entire relationship, how attracted he is to me. You know, he's very like open about that. He like his actions match his words to that statement too. You know? So it's just like, I'm not sure how I can feel better about it.

Well, if you have, from the inside out, spoken about what you're uncomfortable with and what you want and what you need in your marriage and your husband looked at you and said, I'm sorry, I hurt you and I'm done with this. And y'all are deciding we're going to move forward in a world where my husband doesn't, his phone wallet, his photo album, if you will, doesn't include photos of our daughters and us and his porn chicks on the side that he wants to bookmark. We're going to build something new. And you have said, I'm all in,

then it's you making a choice to A, believe your husband when he says he's attracted to you. B, believe your husband if he's worthy of that trust that he's done with pornography and he's done with carrying this stuff around. And three, you begin to ask yourself and heal from a longstanding way you've entered the world, which is how I feel and what I want and what I need come second to looking and being cool. Come second to whatever he wants. And that's just something you're going to have to practice. That's hard. Okay.

So as I'm saying all this, do you feel like you're in? I feel like there's something deeper here. What's the deeper thing here? No, I feel like you're, like, spot on with, you know, I need to, like, get on board because I'm saying, like, I'm on board. I just feel like, you know, it's like a me thing, you know. It's like I need to work on myself so that I can make sure I, like, believe what, it's like a me thing, you know, it's like I need to work on myself, but I can make sure I like believe what he's telling me.

Does he, I mean, has he given you his phone? Has he given you like, here's my code, here's my phone, look whenever you want. Here's my computer, here's my, like, here's all the stuff. I'm going to get the safe eyes program and he's turned it all over to you. Oh yeah. He's very open with anything, you know, I asked, he would be willing to show. Are you asking? No. No. That goes back to what I'm saying.

You have to be, if you have said, I'm going to trust you and you know in your mind, but I need these four or five things to trust you. You have to say those out loud. You have to give him a roadmap back to your trust. If you don't, you're going to hold him accountable for not following a trail that he didn't even know existed. Right. Okay.

Yeah, that's fair. But all of that comes back to what I was saying earlier is you have to first believe that the things that you want and need even have value in the world. Does that make sense? Yes. Who told you that? That your job was to make sure everybody else is okay and that Paige just needed to shut her mouth and be quiet and I don't even think I've realized like that's

where that's where I was at like I don't want to think that that's where I'm at but yeah for sure how long how long has that been the case uh probably a lot longer than I've even known my husband. Do you know where that came from? Yeah, probably my home life for sure, like growing up with my dad. Okay. I think a fair conversation to have with him is, hey, I haven't been fully open with you. I learned at a really young age that what I felt about things and what I wanted and what I needed um didn't matter and without even meaning to I brought it here and it was only because I became I felt my mama bear come out seeing these porn stars in your phone right next to our daughters that even like like a mama bear came. And that wasn't even so much

me feeling like I finally deserve to be heard. That was just protectionism. I'm going to protect my daughters, right? From their dad. And so now it's about learning. I think telling him, I want to learn how to say what I want and what I need out loud and not be scared you're going to run away. Not be scared that you're going to puff and puff and either get big and loud or you're going to do silent treatment on me. I need to know that you're going to be like, cool, let's figure this thing out together. And by the way, here's what I need from you when it comes to desire, to romance, to wanting to feel wanted by you, here's a roadmap to me right now.

By the way, it's going to change in a year or two or three, and we'll go over a new one then. That's one of the funnest things about being married is new roadmaps to desire. But you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Does this sound empowering? Does this sound terrifying?

Yeah, it sounds empowering. Like, you know, like, I can't wait to, like, talk with him about this sound terrifying? Yeah, it sounds empowering. I can't wait to talk with him about this. I have a different perception now. And I think you need to give yourself permission to go slow. And when it comes

to like, hey, get pornography off your phone next to my daughter's, you don't get a minute on that. Delete the photos, for God's sakes. But underneath that, he's getting a new wife. He's getting a new wife. And you're going to get a new husband. That's amazing. That's awesome.

And both of y'all are going to have to there's going to be some ping-ponging back and forth figuring out what this feels like and what this looks like. And you have to be graceful with each other as you all figure this out. Okay. Does that make sense?

Yeah. He's going to say and do something. Or you're going to walk into the room in two months, and I don't know, he'll be watching Game of Thrones, and there'll be four women on there without any shirts on, and your heart is instantly going to go back to this phone. And he's going to be like, I'm changing chair i was changing the chair all right and you're gonna have to stumble through that moment together yeah or a buddy of his is going to send him a text of some like oh bro you got to check this out and you're gonna have his phone when that text comes

through right so those moments are gonna happen and you're gonna have to have a plan for hey when, hey, when this happens, I'm going to trust you. Or when this happens, here's what I'm going to need from you, right? And we're going to just fumble through this. And you're going to have to be willing to say, I don't feel beautiful today. Or when he looks at you and says, you're the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And your body goes, no, I'm not. In your mind, you say, I'm going to trust him today. I'm going to lean into this. And then you might say, will you hold me for a second? Will you put your hands on the back of my neck? Just hold my face.

Will you kiss me on the mouth? Can we just French kiss without sleeping together just for a bit, right? What are the things that you need? I'm just making up things I hear all over the country. What things do you need? What things do you need? I think it's a whole new day for you, Paige.

Good for you for defending your daughter. It's good for you for finally saying, hey, here's what I want. Here's what makes me feel gross and disrespected in my own house. Good on you. Good for your husband for hearing you and going, you're right. I was wrong. I'm done. It's out. It's out. Good on you. Good for your husband for hearing you and going, you're right, I was wrong. I'm done. It's out.

It's out. Good for everybody. Now you've moved out of the old house. Now you've got to build a new one and move into it. And this is, quite frankly, where the fun begins. Let me know how it goes

and I'll holler back anytime and I'm always here for you, Paige. Call anytime. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and

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Brian. Hey, Brian, what's up, man? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. You got it, my brother. Thanks for calling in. What's up? Yeah. The reason why I'm calling is I'm not sure how to help my wife with her hoarding situation.

That one's tough. At first, it was... I didn't actually notice it at the very beginning. I just thought that she just had more stuff. But over the years, we've been married for about 10 years now. And I'm noticing that it's getting worse and worse, just little by little. And now it's kind of at a point where I'm seeing things that are hazardous, like used tissues, used diapers. There's bugs starting to show up and it's just kind of

getting to a point where I feel like I need to get her some help. But the big issue is she's in denial and we've had fights about this many, many times

over the years that I told her that she has a hoarding problem. And whenever she hears that word, she gets really, really angry and upset. And she tells me that she's not a hoarder. Um, and, um, you know, sometimes I feel terrible that I, you know, been yelling at her. I even told her that I'm going to leave if she doesn't, you know, get rid of all this stuff. And, you know, it's I guess my question is, you know, how do I help her if she's in denial? Um, because some of the research that I've done is, um, if you're living with a hoarder, you should just, just leave. But it's hard for me to, um, just leave her because we have a, we have a baby together.

Ooh, man. Um, she's, she's only like, uh, eight months old now. And so, um, it's, it's been really difficult for me. So that's why I need to get some help. Yeah. If you've got a kid in the home and there's bugs and rats and dirty diapers everywhere and it's unsanitary, then at some point very, very soon you're going to have to make a call for the safety of your child. Yeah. And you have to get the kid out of there.

And even if you end up, and follow my trail here, okay? This is not what I'm telling you to do, but I'm saying, even if you end up ending this marriage and leaving and your kid is out 50% of the time. That's 50% in a healthy environment versus this. Yeah. Okay. Now I'll also say your kid is not a healthy in a healthy environment.

If mom is sick and dad is screaming at her, that's unhealthy too. Yeah. It's also unhealthy if mom is not well and dad is yelling threats at mom and berating mom and a right to the whole thing is not well. What has happened over the last, well, you said you've been together 10 years. What's happened over the last 10 years that has slowly cranked that anxiety pressure? Because hoarding is an OCD derivative, right? Which I think is, it's OCD anxiety derivative. It's tomato, tomato. But it's a body's way of trying to keep itself safe. Yeah. I mean, we don't have any financial issues. That's the thing.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Who cares? That's one little piece of the pie. Yeah. Are you safe? I think so. Is her work safe? Yeah, my job is safe. No, no, no. Is her work, your wife's work? So she stopped working after she became pregnant. She was a massage therapist um and then um she she's just been

busy with a baby and you know we we have some money saved too so it's you know we don't have to worry about finances so she she can actually just stay home and um she can but are you watching this over the last year and a half are you watching her health deteriorate yeah the thing is like she's she's

telling me that she's working on it she's working on it but what does that mean she does start it like she's working on it but what does that mean she starts she does start it like she's working on getting rid of things she needs she needs professional help she doesn't need to throw things away yeah yeah yeah when you when you start leaving there's a difference difference between collections that get out of control and there's difference between mom passes away and we move all of mom's furniture into one of our bedrooms, right?

And into our living room. And like there's that. An escalation, if you will, it goes from moderate to severe to extreme. An escalation of this to where it pushes it to severe for me into extreme is when you start having dirty diapers. You start having bugs, vermin. When you start not being able to go into certain rooms or walk down certain hallways because it's just full of stuff, right?

That's when we've crossed over where just cleaning it up is, it's a band-aid. It's just, it's going to manifest somewhere else. Yeah, that's what i'm noticing because i've i've taken care of the bugs i've taken care of like i've cleaned the entire house by myself when she's not home no i know you have i know you have but it just comes right back and even bigger so so think think of this um if you listen to the show for any time you've heard me talk about a professor i had about a decade ago that challenged me

Stop asking people. Why do you keep drinking? Start asking people What is it about your day or your life that your body has figured out that alcohol is the best way you can get through it? Because the alcohol isn't the issue Here hoarding collecting things not throwing things away and not being able to either a see it be experiencing it right the bugs the whatever and to not be able to hear from somebody that she's been married to for a decade right that inability says that her body is in full survival mode which means there's not a lot of learning that can

happen in full survival mode. The only thing you can do in survival mode is just get the crap out of wherever you are or hunker down and defend yourself, which is what surrounding yourself with junk is at a very primal level. The conversation here is not like, hey, you got to work on this and start throwing diapers away

that are soiled. It is, hey, we got to go see somebody. She just tells me that she's not a hoarder. Okay. When there's all this stuff all around the house. But listen, brother, listen, you're not choosing to live in reality then, similar to the way she's not. She's looking at you in the eye after a decade and saying,

I don't care what you say. I'm not changing the way I live and I'm not interested in getting the help that I need and you're banging your head against the wall yeah and so at some point you have to say I can't continue to live like this or even further I will not continue to live like this. Or even further, I will not continue to live like this. And I don't want our baby having bugs on him. I don't want my baby growing up surrounded by dirty diapers and trash and used Kleenexes and rats.

Right? And that's a scary, hard thing, but it's equally hard and scary as her saying, I don't want to go get help because nothing's wrong. Yeah. Yeah, you're grossed out by her you yell at her you treat her like a like a dog like a like a unruly neighborhood kid because she's somebody that's that's brought this to your life fair yeah i think that's that's very accurate because i remember i used to be a very clean person. I had minimal things around the house. And then she came into my life and just things started to pile up. Accumulate, yeah.

Yeah. And she doesn't deserve you to resent her. But that means you have to do the hard work of putting the boundary up and pulling yourself out of a situation. Okay. And so maybe the conversation looks something like, Hey, I love you so much.

I want our marriage to make it. And I want this baby to grow up with two healthy parents in this environment surrounded by those dirty diapers over there, by those bugs over here, by X, Y, and Z, I'm no longer able to be the man that I want to be. So I'm going to have to exit this home for a season. It could be 30 days. It could be 60 days. We'll reconvene. Here's the name to three counselors. I'll go with you to all of them, to any of them. We've got money. We'll pay for them.

But you choosing to not go get well is a choice for me to not be here. And I accept that. And also, we're going to have to figure out what to do with the kid. And that might end up in court. That might end up who knows the path. But this kid deserves a safe home. Yeah. That's one of the main reasons I'm calling today too is because I'm worried about our

child. Yeah. Do y'all live in an apartment in New York or you live in a home? Oh, we have a house. So I've been moving to bigger and bigger houses over the years just because I thought it was just the space that we needed. But the bigger space we get. It fills right up, man. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you just described America right there, but that's a whole other conversation. Um,

is there a space that you can designate inside this home as off limits? Yeah. I've, I've been meaning to do that, but I haven't really figured out how to. I guess I just tell her that she can just keep her space here. No, but I'm looking for a transition. I'm looking for a, before you just throw the car into park

while you're flying down the highway, right? That's you moving out. is there another step in between which is these two rooms can have nothing in them one of these rooms is where our baby will sleep and i'm responsible for cleaning it and if you choose to pile up trash and use diapers and kleenexes and throw up rags and leave them in this room, you are choosing for me and this baby to leave this home. I'm not going to hassle you about the rest of the house right now,

but I need two sanctuary rooms, a place where I sleep and a place where the baby sleeps or a place where me and the baby sleep together. Maybe she'll say, absolutely not. You don't get that. Forget you. This is my house too no I don't think she'll do that because she does really care for like she's really good with our baby it's just she just has

this mental block where she doesn't have a mental block brother listen she's not well she's hurt yeah she's sick okay she. She's sick. Yeah, she told me that, you know, growing up, she grew up poor. And so she didn't get to have the things that she wanted. So now she says she gets to have things she wants. So she's just, you know. But she's lost control of it. She's lost control of it. I think so.

She lost control of it. She's lost control of it. I think so. She lost control of it. And so childhood trauma, childhood experiences, poverty, all those things are little nuggets along the way to somebody who grows up as an adult and is struggling. But it sounds counterintuitive, but pointing out where the mess is and yelling about the mess and being angry about the mess, further, it keeps banging those alarms that are going off inside of her pointing out where the mess is and yelling about the mess and being angry about the mess further. It keeps banging those alarms that are going off inside of her that the stuff is using it. She's using the stuff to drown those alarms out. Okay.

What she needs is connection. What she needs is somebody to sit down and listen. What she needs is to process what she needs is some tools. And she can only get that at this point from a professional therapist. And so I tell you that to tell you not to make you feel powerless, but to give you peace. You can't fix this. There's not a conversation you haven't said, or there's not a way you haven't said a thing in the right order that she'd go, oh, okay, okay, now I see it. You can't. You can't smell it, for God's sakes.

I've been in a house with dirty diapers in one of those little trash cans that has like the, I don't know, like the smell good stuff on it. And I still want to set my nose on fire just to stop the pain, right? So it's not a thing you've done wrong. The part I'll challenge you on

where you got to make some changes is you're continuing to go back to the same situation. And you're continuing to get madder and madder and madder about it. And you're losing yourself in that process. And as you lose yourself, you're blaming her. And what I want you to do is look in the mirror and say, okay, I can't control her. I can't fix this. What can I control here? I can take myself out of this situation. Hopefully it's a wake-up call. It's not a divorce. I don't

want that for you, but I'm going to take myself out of the situation and I'm certainly going to take my baby out of an unsafe situation, an unsanitary, unsafe, unwell situation. Is any of this easy, Brian? No. Is all of this going to be gut-wrenching and hard? Absolutely. And it's right. And continuing to live in this mess is also really hard. So choose the hard path that's going to lead you to or could potentially lead you to peace. Don't just keep banging your head against the wall because then you both find yourself on the same couch surrounded by stuff, mad that the other person won't do the next hard right thing. You got to go first on this one, brother. Thank you so much for the call. I'm going to send you a copy of Building a Non-Anxious Life. It's kind of a blueprint here. This is not

the book to hand her right now. She's not there yet. It might be someday, but she's not there yet. Right now, she needs to go sit with somebody. Hopefully, she'll follow your lead and go with you. We'll be right back. I'm so proud that Thorne Supplements, my favorite supplements on the planet, have continued to partner with me and our show listeners for health, longevity, and just feeling good.

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And here's what I take every single day. I take the super EPA fish oil, the methylated B vitamins, creatine, phosphatidylserine, and more. I take Thorne for specific physiologic needs for me to keep my body and mind optimized and for overall longevity and health. And here's the cool thing. We've set up an amazing opportunity for all of the listeners of the Dr. John Deloney show. 25% off everything in the Thorne store and not just on your first visit, but every time you make a purchase through our page and our account. This isn't a sale that's going to change from week to week. All you do is go online, create an account through my page, and you'll get 25% off from here on out forever. It's that easy. Go to thorn.com slash you slash Deloney. That's thorn, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com slash the letter U slash Deloney for 25% off everything in the store.

I trust Thorn. My family trusts Thorn. And you can trust Thorne, too. All right, let's go out to Thelma and Luis in Portland, Oregon. Hey, what's up, Luis? Morning, Dr. John. Thanks for taking my call. Of course.

What's happening? I would like help with getting better at not giving people a vote in my life. Ooh, I like this one. All right, so go for it. I've listened to you for a long time, and when I hear you say that, in my head and intellectually, I'm like, yes, I get this. And unfortunately, I've been sort of a fixer and a people pleaser my whole life. And so then I find myself not so much with people saying, oh, you should do this, you should do that, but almost giving people a vote into how my day goes.

And then I get upset because somebody's mean or I have a bad interaction and then I'm upset about it. And then I'm like, ah, you gave them a vote. And then I'm doubly mad at myself. Um, so I would just like some tools, um, to get better at that, I think. Ooh, man. Okay. You're going to have to just promise that you'll hold my hand through this because it's going to be uncomfortable before we get to the other side. Is that cool? I've been uncomfortable for 50 years. I'm ready to get uncomfortable more to make this different. I can't keep living like this. I love your spirit on this one. Okay. So give me two or three of your best qualities. I'm empathetic. I feel people's emotions, you know, and I feel like I try to listen and understand where they're coming from.

I'm a caregiver. I am a physician. And so I know from your past career, I think you know me, even though you don't know me, you know? Yeah. Okay. Oh man. We're friends, right? Yes. I'm ready. What if I told you that maybe you're not empathetic, but that empathy is a tool. It is the syringe to get you the drug you need. And the drug you need is other people's approval. Other people to say you're good. I totally see that. And so you're not empathy or compassionate in the traditional sense or the way we would look it up in Webster's Dictionary. Compassion and empathy are tools you have weaponized to get what you want, which is everyone in your world to be okay.

Yeah, I can see that. And when they're not okay, you get pissed off at them for not letting you have my drug, right? Yeah, or I feel like I did something wrong. You know, I didn't do something right or I did, you know, I didn't do a good enough job, you know, to fix everybody else's life and I realize it's not my job, but I just can't. Why'd you become a physician? You know, the classic line to help people um where did where

did that spirit come from oh i i yeah i mean i've been that way my whole life um because you had to be here because that's just was your orientation um i think it's probably more orientation and then in you know my upbringing that was my role for sure that was your job yeah yeah and unfortunately your drug of choice is one that we just give you 350 000 a year and call you doctor and we celebrate as a society if you just drank like a regular person then we could go to aa and none of this would be an issue right right? Right. Yeah, the reward of it, for sure, has just escalated it over time. Okay. So what is it about, Louise?

Like, just talking to you, you sound like a really kind person. Like, in your core of core, you're like a good human being. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I would say that's true. So what does Louise want? I want peace. I want to be able to be open hearted, but not take on more than kind of what's mine. I started getting better and impatient. I remember a call that you had maybe

six months ago with a man that was kind of bringing his work stuff home and giving the worst of himself to his family. And that really resonated with me. And so I would like to find peace and boundaries, I guess, but not close myself off. I think in the past when I think, okay, I'm going to not give them a vote, and I'm going to put up a wall and separate myself, then I think, but then that's kind of closing off what I do think some of my value is to people.

But that's the same line you and I have both heard from an alcoholic that's like, well, I can't not go to the bar. That's all my friends are. And they need me. And I tell them, you're right, your friends mean by that. You want to leave yourself open to a possibility. What about reversing that and saying, I have two hours to be of support and care and love to X, Y, and Z if they call? Yeah, I feel like I can

sort of do that. The thing that has definitely pushed me over is I was I shouldn't say I was pushed. I accepted a role as kind of like a director of positions last year. And as you can imagine, like for someone that has my traits, who never was looking to manage people. You're managing unmanageable people. You're managing unmanageable people. It is like a fire that is just exploded from, you know, what it was before. And it's hard because they're people I respect and I appreciate and I work clinically with them. And so when somebody is unhappy with kind of the business

way that things are going and I have to deal with 30 different opinions. It just, that's what sort of has tipped me over and like led to my call. Well, and my question is, you're somebody that I would go to holding my baby daughter, who's eight. She's not a baby anymore. She's a kid now. I'd be holding my eight-year-old little girl and say, will you help me? And you would look at my daughter and you'd look at the facts of the situation. You'd look at her past. And you would hand me a treatment plan to care for my daughter. And my question is, why won't you do that for you?

Why does my daughter have more value in your heart than you do? Why do those physicians, oh my God, they've got opinions and egos. And you have to have an ego to be a physician, to sit down and go, no, I can sew your arm back on. Like you have to have some sort of like, yeah, I can do that, right? That's part of the gig. But managing them is tough. Yeah. But why do you put them ahead of you? Where did that story come from that, Luis, shut your mouth, you go last? Yeah. I mean, it was an easy way to get through my life, uh, for sure, you know, and it's a,

it's a hard thing to, I want everybody listening. She just did a classic move. It's so good. You're really good at this, Louise. Um, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's a turn, but it usually happens with a good, uh, sharp inhale of breath. And you just did it. I'm giving away my secrets on the air, but you got real quiet and you go, yeah, so I did, it's like I'm going to alter my physiology so I can answer this question here. Sit with me in the uncomfortable for a minute. Just sit with me in the suck for a minute.

Yeah, it's like a tidal wave. Yeah, I know. And it feels like it's going to wash over you and you're a freaking physician in charge of physicians and you don't get hit by tidal waves and I'm asking you just to sit with me. I asked you to hold my hand through it going to wash over you. And you're a freaking physician in charge of physicians. And you don't get hit by tidal waves. And I'm asking you just to sit with me. I asked you to hold my hand through it.

So I got you. But exhale. This sucks. Who told you? Louise, shut your mouth and get in the back of the room. I don't think it was that overt or from like a negative standpoint. I think things were easier if I did well and like people pleased. And, you know, it wasn't, you suck and get in the back. It's like, life is easier if you don't suck. And positive

kind of feelings came from the achievement and the making sure everybody was okay. And then my whole life was easier so and now you've reached a place where you're trying to perform and give everybody pats on the back and you're not getting the same you're not getting the same uh uh i would call it pseudo love in return, right? Totally, yeah. And you don't have a psychology for it. Mm-hmm. I want to tell you,

I'm sorry that you've had to perform your way to relationship for so long. Yeah, thank you. It's exhausting. Do you have some people that you can just be straight up like Gangster Louise with? That you can tell inappropriate jokes with, and you can can laugh and you can be like, Oh my gosh, that guy is not attractive. Like, do you have a group that you can do that with one or two or five people? Um, I have, I have probably one or two, but it's that feeling of like, I don't want to burden them. Like I even just calling you, I'm like, Oh no, I'm burning him. You know? And it's like, I have this, but I, I realized I need to

open up to at least one person that, that I feel really comfortable with. And, um, what do you, what do you, what do you love to do in a given day when you're not working? What are two or three things that just bring light into your house? Definitely spending time with my kids. I like being in my garden. Okay. What makes you feel good and whole? Like my wife would say going to bed at 8.45 p.m. and reading a book.

Yeah. What makes you feel just good? I think having just a break where I don't have any to-do list. So, you know, going to bed early and reading a book, being outside in my garden and just having that sort of space, I think. Again, where I'm not trying to fix or solve or, you know, I'm just kind of. What makes you feel sexy? Ugh. Nothing. I can't even answer that. How sad is that?

It's not sad. It's just, it's just, it's just instructive, right? This sense of like, cause, cause in some places sex, sexy is the ultimate vulnerability. Here I am. Do you still love me? And sexy can also be the ultimate stage to perform. I'm going to become a thing so that you will desire me. Right? And for a performer, sexy can be a way to, like, can be a wall to hide behind, or sexy can be like, ugh, I'm not even going there. What makes you feel strong? I try to exercise, so that makes me feel strong. I do feel like I'm a good parent to my kids, and I think that makes me feel strong.

Can I tell you, what is a common thing between your children and your garden? I'll just cut to the chase because it'll take forever you have more power than they do you're quote unquote over them and where you struggle is when you walk up and look somebody eye to eye and your body feels like you're a six-year-old girl again trying to dance dance dance as though i don't deserve to be in though, I don't deserve to be in this room. I don't deserve to be in this role. I'm making a call, and four of the doctors are like, this is the problem with stupid administrators. You guys are all, you sold us out.

And suddenly you become six again. Instead of saying, no, no, no, no, this is my garden. All the plants in here have value, but I was put in charge. I'm making the call. No, it's interesting. I've never thought about it like that. But there's something to be said for you putting your hand in your chest. Have you heard me talk about that? What my counselor made me do? Have you tried it? No, I haven't because I can't. You can't, I know. Yeah. That's homework. When I hear you say it, I'm like, okay, I'm working toward that. I can't,

I will do that one day, but. Nope, just go do it. There's not a one day. Yeah. There's not a one day. And to start at how do I just don't want to, I just don't want to care what people say. That's hard when you don't have a foundation of, I care what I say. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. I am worth this. I think that's the starting point. It is.

It is. But I wish it was less cheesy than what I'm going to tell you. You got to look in the mirror and put your hand on your chest and say 10 times a day, I love Luis. Done a pretty amazing job, I love Luis. Done a pretty amazing job. I love Luis. And you got to look yourself in the eye in the mirror. And that's going to lead you to questions like, why didn't she love me?

Why didn't he just say I'm proud of you? And those are haunting, scary questions that you got to journal and write through and write them down. And you've heard me say, write yourself letters from your kid. Like, write that 12-year-old you a letter and say, hey, you got an 89. We still made it. Yeah. You didn't deserve to feel like that. Or you got straight A's and nobody asked you out and I'm sorry. Right?

All those things. But all that starts with you saying, I'm worth even entering into that space. And you don't believe that. You think your only value in a room is to make sure everybody else is okay. And I'm going to tell you, you can only make sure people are okay as if both of your feet are standing firm. Yeah. No, and like I said from the beginning, I realized I have to do something different, and I just have to do it, I think. So let's start from the foundation up, not the top down. Top down would be, you can't talk to me like that.

I'm the administrator, right? When you're thinking of two or three doctors right now, probably one of them has blonde hair and he is just oh gosh, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And you think everything in my life would be better if this guy, those three, his little group, if they would just, right?

Let's start from the flora. Wow. This is scary. I've done this for too long. Oh gosh. Let's start from the flora. I've done this for too long. Oh, gosh. Let's start from the floor up. I'm Luis, and I love this girl. And, Luis, you ended up a physician, but if we go back, you've been dancing and singing a long time,

and that wasn't your job. Your job was to be a little kid, but here we are. I love you. And then I'm going to go hug my kids, not in a desperate, needy way, but just because I love you. And then I'm going to go hug my kids. Not in a desperate, needy way, but just because I love them. And then I'm going to hug my romantic partner because I love them. And now suddenly I am doing these things. I am writing out affirmations to myself.

Hey, today's going to be a good day. Today I'm going to feel confident in my decisions, and I'm going to say I'm sorry when I'm wrong, and I'm going to apologize when I hurt people, and I'm going to move on with my day. And what we're doing is we're building this thing up from the bottom up. And it has to be just like exercise. It's going to feel lame and boring and repetitive and over and over. And then in six weeks, somebody's going to challenge you in a meeting, and you're not going to feel your backbone suddenly crumble underneath you.

Yeah, I like it. I like that idea of from the ground up. And can I tell you something else? Yep. I had a professional athlete reach out to me on Instagram recently. Just eviscerated me, went after me hard. And I wish I could say I was above it that bothered me I broke my heart made me sad and I've tried to go around it and just be like hey like have a good day and it just came even harder and the only path I could only path forward forward is I, I sent a voice memo,

which I almost never did. So you hear my voice and it's like, man, I'm not going to fight you. I wish you the best, man. I love it. I hope your life as well.

Hope you're well, but I want you to know that those moments, those days, those times when somebody that you admire, somebody that you care about, somebody that you want their approval, even if you don't want their approval, but you still do, there's going to be seasons when it still hurts. And that's okay. That that you care about, somebody that you want their approval, even if you don't want their approval, but you still do,

there's going to be seasons when it still hurts, and that's okay. That means you're human. That means you have empathy, right? That means you're still able to be hurt, and empathy means I can sit with you and feel it too. Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate you sharing that,

because I'm like, how does he get through that? Oh, sister. Like, it doesn't bother you. Dude. Yeah. Yeah. No, man. I've talked to two of my old mentors today. It's been a hard day, right? It's part of it. Part of caring and loving people is entering into hard spaces where you're going to come out with wounds. That's part of it. But I'm not going to live that way as a rule of life. Yeah. Fair. Yes. Thank you. I really appreciate you. It's been one of my absolute honors to talk to you. I appreciate your trust and call anytime, Luis, and stay on the line. And if you don't have any of the books,

Taylor, we'll get them sent over to you. But I'm really grateful for your call. Call anytime. But you're worth it. You're worth it. You're worth it. We have a cool crap that happened coming up next. Hey, what's up?

Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we're back. Let's do some cool crap that happened.

Kelly, go for it. All right, so this is from a listener with a wonderful name of Kelly. And she says, dear John and Kelly. It's kind of on the nose. I mean, there's pandering, then there's like super pandering. And then she says, because we Kelly's stick together.

Oh, gosh. We like her. Gross. All right. First of all, I read your book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and I have been expressing a sigh of relief ever since. I didn't even realize how much anxiety there was in my life, but now I have some tools to begin to have some peace. I also purchased Questions for Humans for for couples for my boyfriend and I. Our relationship has been rather rocky over the last year, and we have been earnestly looking

for harmony. We started doing the questions several evenings this week and are amazed at the conversations we've had. Some are funny, some are serious, and some are sad. But we both felt that it opened up the communications without premeditated purpose. Such a seemingly small change has brought tremendous positive changes in our lives. The journey continues towards a non-anxious life, but for the first time in decades, we both feel like this new year is truly a new year. Thank you for all you do. Thank you for sitting with those of us who need a hand to hold as we walk through the

rocky terrain of our lives. Well, that just makes my heart feel good. I know. She's a good one. There's a nice Kelly out there. There is nice Kellys out there. There are. I'd heard the rumor.

There are. I'd heard the rumor. Well, man, that makes me, I don't even know what to say to that. It just makes me feel all glowy inside. But it's cool. They're doing hard work. Yeah. But it's great whenever you can say, yeah, this is hard,

but we're seeing a path that we never even knew was an option. There's two things I think whenever something's hard, if you have a map and you do something different, those are the two things that can give you hope right off the bat. We're going to put our phones down and just start asking these dumb questions. And they're doing it together. That is such – and they're not – they're just dating, but that is such a huge thing. They're doing it now, not 20 years from now when they're like, who are you?

But doing the work now is huge. They'll do it then too, but yeah. Yeah, but they're setting a precedence for doing that work. That's exactly right. Dude, that's awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that, Kelly. Nice Kelly. Mean Kelly, thank you for sharing nice Kelly's note. That makes my heart feel good. Hey, everybody. Thank you all for being that, Kelly. Nice Kelly. Mean Kelly. Thank you for sharing nice Kelly's note.

That makes my heart feel good. Hey, everybody. Thank you all for being with us today. Thank you for our original 17 and our new 17 for the grand total of 34. We're ride or die, man. That's not even how you use that phrase. It just sounded cool. I love y'all.

Bye.