The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Hates the Person I've Become

Episode Date: November 28, 2025

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All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com slash getaway. My husband and I have been married for 27 years. I was a very compliant wife.

I've had lots of children. I've done all the right things. I wasn't the standard of beauty, I guess you could say. And so he would say things to me like, well, you're cute. And I would be like, but I want to be beautiful. Well, you're not beautiful. You're cute. Okay, let me tell you straight up.

What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney's show. Coming to you from Nashville, Tennessee, taking calls from all over the world. I'm a real person talking to real people who are going through real challenges. People who are struggling to fix their marriages, to heal their past, to deal with kid challenges, mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life for over two decades. I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move.

I'd love to have you on the show. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask. Fill out the form and we will get you on. It's got to San Antonio, Texas, home of the greatest food in America and talk to Amanda. What's up, Amanda? Morning. How are you, John? I'm outstanding. How are you? I'm great. I'm super excited to be speaking with you today. I'm really grateful that you called. What's going on? So, my husband and I have been married for 27 years. We both were in the same high-demand religion, and we have both eventually left it. I left it about 12 years

ago. He's kind of gone back and forth, but he's completely out now. But I just have, I'm realizing I have lots of resentment around how he treated me while we were in the religion and then since. And now I'm older and I'm realizing he also has all his own trauma around that, but I don't quite know how to forgive where we've been and move forward past how I'm feeling right now. So, so give me some examples of some things that you are still resenting? Okay, so when we were in the religion, I was very, I don't know how to describe it. I don't want to say good girl,

because I don't think I'm a bad girl, but I was very good at following all the rules. How about a compliant girl? Compliant, very good. That's a perfect word to describe me. You did what you were told, and you took all your wants and needs and feelings and shoved them in a box,

and you did what the next person told you to do. do. Okay. Yeah, absolutely. So that's how I grew up. And then I, the thing I always say to everybody as I left my dad's house and went straight to my husband. So I was very compliant growing up. I was a very compliant wife. I've had lots of children. I've done all the right things. And then I just couldn't do it anymore. And so now that I've left, I've realized that he was probably just telling me he was told to tell me while we were younger, but it's made me feel bad because it was a lot of how he didn't like the way I looked. He didn't, I wasn't the standard of beauty, I guess you could say in our religion. And so he would say things to me like, well, you're cute. And I would be

like, but I want to be beautiful. Well, you're not beautiful. You're cute. You know, so he would kind of downplay, I don't know, how I felt about myself all the time. And then the house was never clean enough. The kids were never quiet enough. It was a lot of that growing, when they were growing up. Now that I've changed and I feel like I look different and I behave different, now I get a lot of, I don't like the way you look. I don't like the way you talk. I don't like, so I just feel like it doesn't matter what I look and say and do. I'm not good enough or right for him. So I just, I don't know quite what to do with those feelings because I don't want to be divorced and I don't want to leave him. And I understand we've lived a pretty great life. It's just a lot of these

feelings have just kind of all piled up on themselves. And I don't know how to deal with it. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So I hear two things happening at the same time. One is you were both in religious tradition that told him that every wrong thing in his life was the woman in his life's fault. Oh, wow. And you were told that everything you feel is wrong and the things you're supposed to feel or whatever he tells you to do. Wow. And over time, you'll both broke free from that. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. But I also hear those same things, he's continuing to hurt you in that way. Yeah. And so I don't want you to conflate. I'm, I, I, I, I, I, I, the way he used to treat me

I want you to own this is happening right now okay and that's a it's more it's both a more graceful y'all were both breathing in the same smoke 10 15 years ago

yeah and you're not anymore and yet these actions are continuing wow yeah so that's a scary your proposition. It's at the same time more graceful. And also, I got to deal with this present reality that my husband looks me in the eye and says, you are not beautiful enough for me.

Yeah. Yeah. And probably me saying the words, I'll give you a pass. It's probably not the right way to say that, but I'll give anybody grace on them simply walking, on the path they were given and assigned. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Especially, because if you're in a high demand religion, you probably, this move probably cost you friends. It probably costs you family.

It comes with a lot of unhooking, which is really painful, right? Yeah, I describe it as a death. I feel like I had a death in my life. Yeah, yes. And so I'm not going to say I give somebody pass, but dude, I've got so much grace for folks who look back and think, oh, my God.

gosh look who I was look what I did look who I became and some of that to be honest with you is you we talk a lot about like when you break free from these type of unhealthy and in this case sometimes it's family dynamics sometimes it's religion dynamics that sense of empowerment you feel it can it almost always leads to this contempt like I'm above this now I figured out something and all of y'all hurt me and you know we're painful and some of that's true but here's the challenge most people don't do what i think's the next hardest step which is forgive themselves wow i never thought to do well often that discomfort we're still carrying around about what they did to me what they did to me also is in a in a twisted way i allowed this to

happen. I signed up for this. I participated in this for five, 10, 20, 30 years. Yeah. Right? And that comes with forgiveness and grace for the woman you see in the mirror. And none of that, none of it excuses where you and your husband are right now. Yeah. So tell me about the things he says, because what I hear is, and listen, I can be super wrong what hearing so I want you to help correct me okay what I'm hearing is you just want this guy that you've built a life with you want him to want you yeah tell me about that no that's absolutely it that's absolutely it I mean about four years ago I found out I had breast cancer and and he was so hands off with me it just it was almost surprising to me how hands off I

there would be nights I would cry myself to sleep in my closet because he would be so frustrated with me by how I was handling it and that has made me feel he would tell me that I was being too negative or I um or it's not that big of a deal or people have it worse or and so I would lay in bed and cry because I wasn't trying to be negative and but I also had to feel what I was feeling at the time and so I would lay in bed and cry at night because I had I felt like I always had to keep it together because unfortunately for me I'm a people please survive to the end but so I would feel like I had to keep it together for everybody at work all day and my kids and yadda yada yad and then I would just want to be able to just cry in bed at night if I needed to and he would tell

me you're going to die if you're this negative you can't keep doing this you're just being so negative and God okay let me just let me tell you straight okay that's not supposed to happen like that

okay like I'm I'm doing my best to not get enraged inside my chest yeah okay on your behalf

I don't even I just met you mm-hmm I'm sorry I'm sorry. No, don't be sorry. I'll just sit here with you for a second. Because you've been lonely inside your house for a long, long time, haven't you?

27 years. That's right. Yeah. And you got to experience, I think, one of the scariest things ever, which is when we squash part of ourself to make ourselves, quote-unquote, lovable, there's always a story we tell ourselves that when the chips are down, our spouse will stand beside us. Yeah, yeah. And so you squash part of yourself for a long, long time. And he did too. Yeah, for sure.

Then the chips fell, and you found yourself all alone. Yeah, still. That's the definition of trauma is a disconnection from yourself and others. Hmm. Now here's my next statement. You can't control him. So my next question for you is, have you sat down across the table and chosen not to continue?

you to hold this pain in this new era that you're in, this new season of empowerment and strength, and said, here is how you hurt me. Or a better way to say it is, I was so, so hurt. I'm honestly afraid to say it. Tell me what that fears. I feel like anytime I've tried to be honest about my feelings, he can't hear me. That's not true. He won't hear you. He won't. Yeah. He won't hear me. He just gets mad about. And then he turns it into, I never do anything right. And I'm always a failure. And then I feel like I have to squash it again because I've made him feel some kind of way.

And I need to fix it. So in, there's an old therapy saying there's a one up and a one down position. Okay. Mm-hmm. Sometimes, it tends to fall across gender lines, although I'm watching it in real-time shift, where men often hold one-up position because they're just got bigger muscles

and they can get loud and they can be ferocious, right? This is my house, this is the way we're going to do things. But there's also a way to take power over a household in the one-down position. And the joke I always make is we all have that, like that woman in our family that's like oh i don't want to eat there you know what that's okay i just won't eat i'll just eat the napkins in the glove box y'all go ahead without me and it's a way that the whole family stops and goes okay where do you want to go right it's it's the same

capture of power just done in a different way and i'm watching more and more men take this on as culture has said hey you can't beat your chest and yell anymore because masculinity like it it's a poisonous version of that what they're doing now is I just can't do anything right and you just hate me and I'm such a failure and it's and then the whole house goes you're not a failure right and it's it's it's the same move it's just done on the other side underneath the water instead on top of the boat yeah and it's almost like I can't point it out because what is it I don't yeah here's what it is my body was at war with me and you blame me for making you uncomfortable every time I have a feeling inside my own house you tell me

something is wrong with me you are such a weak childish coward that you can't hold your wife's feelings and you can lift all the weights in the world and do all the MMA in the world and get all the tattoos in the world and have all the guns in the world and listen to all the red pill podcast in the world but if you can't hold your wife's pain you're not a man period yeah that's the job and not only is that the job that's the greatest gift on the planet yeah and so hear me say your pain is real Now, I've seen some people be successful, both men and women, by sitting down and saying, we need to have a hard conversation, and I'm going to ask you to act like an adult here. Okay.

What does that mean? What is that? I'm going to say some heavy things, and I'm going to ask you to not retreat. I'm going to ask you to stand firm, and I'm going to ask you to finally listen to me. Okay. and I'm going to challenge you as best as possible to use I statements instead of you statements okay yeah I definitely need to work on that okay

and somebody who feels perpetually attacked in their home with you you you you perpetually feels like a victim yeah versus I had breast cancer and you blamed me for crying to it loud. Yeah. I went through this many

years of being told that my voice didn't matter. And I just want you to look at me and say, I'm glad that you're my wife. Sorry, I'm a crybaby. No, you're not a cry baby. You're somebody who's got your emotions, rightfully so. Because for a big chunk of your life, they told you God didn't like your emotions.

And then the person that you were hitched to said, they make me uncomfortable, so keep them bottled up. They will bubble over. And here's what's, tell me if I'm wrong, are there seasons, are there times when you just explode? And then he goes, see? Absolutely. Okay. That's what happens. That's what happens when these things get just shaking up like a two-liter bottle with the lid on.

Intimacy is you. Well, I know, but it's a way that somebody will point at you and make it your fault. And so here's what has to happen. You have to have a safe place right now. And I don't say safe like in the kumbaya nonsense. I'm talking about a trusted person or group of people, not that you can completely. plain to and whine to, because that doesn't help. But a place where you can be heard and you can let your feelings out.

Because feelings don't tell us the truth all the time, but they do have significant value. They are data. Okay. And so if that's not him right now, that is you, once a week getting with a group of girlfriends. Not to say, my husband, it's to say, whew, I need to say in front of some people. that I feel really lonely right now. I'm still scared to death that my body is going to kill me from the inside out. Yeah, absolutely.

I still feel really lonely, even though my husband and I raise some great kids together. Okay. I can do that. And my hope is that if you look at your husband and say, you've got one job and that's to keep me safe and love me that he'll rise to that occasion if it's said in that directive a way

I feel like I say this every show but you're not crazy and your pain is real and your feelings are righteous and good okay thank you for saying that I want you to write a letter to 22 year old you

and I want you to tell her I forgive you okay okay because that girl is just doing what she knew and you're kind of pissed at her aren't you yeah I really don't like her at all

I know hey don't judge that girl let her go she was just trying to make do with what she had with what she knew okay And then we have to deal with the gnarly present reality that you're in right now, okay?

Okay. It's been a high honor that I get to talk to you today. And you call me anytime, okay? And if your husband wants to call and say, okay, I get it. I don't know what to do next. Tell him, I'd love for him to pull up a seat and we'll figure it out. I love that. Okay.

I appreciate it. Yep. And if y'all want to call me together, y'all can do that also, okay? All right, I appreciate it. All right, blessings to you. I appreciate the call so, so, so much. When we come back, a woman asks how to rebuild trust after her husband used her sister's photos for sexual gratification.

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It doesn't cost anything. It just takes two seconds of your time. If you'll log in and hit the subscribe button, it makes a huge difference. Let's go out to Lynn Washington and talk to Rose. What's up, Rose? Hi, can you hear me? I can. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. What's going on? So my question is, how can I rebuild trust in my marriage and forgive my husband after he used pictures of my sisters for sexual gratification. Oh, good grief. Tell me this story.

This has given me the ooze. So I can give you a little more context just to start. So I'm 22. My husband is 28. Sorry, I'm bouncing my six-month-old at the same time. No, that's way more important than this. You take care of that six-month-old. Oh, you're good.

I have a passive sexual trauma for my last romantic relationship. four years ago. My husband is aware of the extent of my trauma and has been patient with my sexual boundaries, our whole relationship. We have been married for a year and a half and together for two and a half and have an amazing six-month-old baby girl. My husband has struggled with and lustful desire since he was 11 and once healing. How do I heal from this deep betrayal and love him through it? I know it wasn't my fault and that I am enough, but how do I support him through sexual freedom while not minimizing my pain. And how do I prepare to see my sisters in person after this came to light?

So tell me what came to light? Yeah, so it's been like two and a half weeks since he told me, and I have known that he has struggled with porn prior to us meeting and a few times during our marriage, but he's been great the last couple of months. So everything that he's told me in the last couple weeks has happened prior to us having our baby. And I saw a shift in him after that just in leading our home and spiritual leading as well. But I just, I told him like two and a half weeks ago, we were going to buy a new car. And I was like, you don't seem to be walking a life of contentment.

And there feels like there's distance and you're always speaking more. And I was like, I can tell that there's something. and I felt it for a while and my body knows that there's something so I just need you to tell me. Hey, can I just stop you right there and say thank you? I was going to say congratulations, but that's not a, that's the wrong word. Thank you for being a person who's experienced trauma and out of that healing is learning to trust the data that your body is giving you about your environment. That's awesome.

Yeah. That's what healing looks like and I'm really proud of you for that. Thank you. It's been a lot of counseling and a lot of healing over the years. So I just, I knew. And so he was, at first, he was like, yeah, I struggled with porn. And he had told me back in December that he had been struggling. And so after December, we put precautions on his phone.

He got into counseling, started meeting with leaders at our church. And so he had the accountability, but he's like, I didn't tell you everything. And so he was like, I masturbated two pictures of not just at first, it was just one sister, but over the last couple weeks, he's been really honest. and I think the guilt has been killing him and said it was multiple. I have six sisters and so there is a lot

and he took their pictures off of social media and so it wasn't anything that he took himself but there's just been a lot and even since like before we had our kid he did tell me this week that he used to play video games he sold his computer yesterday

because I'm done. I want to be honest about everything but he would talk to girls on discourse, just seeking attention. And so I think that is everything so far that has come to light. And I know he's doing the work. He's met with our church pastors. He's met with a counselor. But it's just like, I just can't use the images out of my head. Yeah.

Yeah. There's, I mean, it's usually not helpful to classify things. is worse or, you know, like, not good and worse and worse, right? Yeah. But there's a personalization, right? Because you know there's something about, like, masturbating to nameless people on some porn site, right? And I can feel like a betrayal and frustration, all that. But then there's coming up, right?

I mean, you're in the holiday season. And we're recording the show, but it's going to be out. in the middle of holidays when you and him are going to be in the same room as them, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so there's a personalization

to this that feels gross. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. It's messy. Yeah. So I'll reverse engineer this question and answer your last question first.

I think what's important is to not blame your sisters for this. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I also struggle with should I tell them? No, I wouldn't. Okay.

Yeah, there's, I mean, there's radical transparency and radical honesty. I mean, it can get to, it can be unhelpful, right? Yeah, yeah. And so I, I want to make sure first you don't blame them. Yeah. Okay, they didn't do anything wrong. When you first said the question, I thought they were sending him photos or something behind your back. This is different.

He just pulled stuff off of social media accounts. The second thing is you beginning to, in a weird way, it sounds like you are invested in this marriage, you're watching this guy, try to work hard and change and do some pretty deep healing. I'm going to tell you all the way back to 11 years old, playing defense is. step one but getting to this idea you talked about is he is constantly wanting more different something other than that's a clear sign that he doesn't feel comfortable in his own skin yeah and so that is he needs to go sit with a therapist and do that hard work similar to the hard work you have done yeah because this isn't going to be solved with defense because a good offense eventually finds a way through a good defense.

Yes, absolutely. And so at step one, cool, he got rid of his computer, he got rid of his video games and whatever. Well, then you're going to have a guy who's completely uncomfortable in his own skin sitting in your living room staring at you. Right? And it's staring at you and this beautiful six-month-old you're holding, right? Yeah.

The next step is you get to decide what the path back to trust looks like. what does that mean so here's what it looks like maybe this year you sit down and i again i'm always saying this but i think it's incredibly important here these are i statements not you statements okay yeah i am wrestling with a path back to trust and because you are sexually gratifying yourself to real people in my life my sisters i'm uncomfortable with this year, with y'all all being in the same room with me just finding this out two weeks ago? Yeah.

So this year I'm going to do Thanksgiving with just me and the baby and my family. Okay. And I'm just making this up. I don't know if that would bother you, if it would not bother you, whatever. And when your family says, why isn't he coming?

Say he's working through some things and we're working through some things and that's about all I'm going to say about it. I just want y'all to be happy that I'm here. I'm safe. I'm proud of the work he's doing. Yeah. And I'm not going to go into details.

I'm not going to sob story. I'm not going to shove him under the bus. I'm just going to completely own my strength and my boundaries in this moment. Okay. That's one idea. Another idea is you can come, but I want you to stay with me and whatever. My guess is that him sexually gratifying himself to pictures of your, sisters was less about them?

Yes, yeah, no, he told me it's more about, like, the fantasy that he has seen a lot. Just I'm struggling from watching Portland from such a young age. It's the fantasy side, not necessarily them as a person. And so it may be y'all going to counseling together to help untangle the depersonalization of this, because it's very, very personal for you. It may not be personal for him. yeah that doesn't give an excuse but that might give you some feeling more safe letting him around people they just happen to be a beautiful person on an instagram account that he could follow without you

raising your suspicion right yeah yeah which again doesn't give any any pass and it's gross and it's just ugh those are my sisters for god's sakes but also you'd be crazy if you didn't have a side eye the whole time they're in the same room together right yeah yeah and we're super close to. So I have talked to him about possibly not coming. But I also tell him, I'm really scared that when I see them, I'm probably just going to break down crying because we are still close and they're going to be like, what the heck? And so I fear that it might come to light, but I also not giving him that he doesn't deserve for it to come to light if it hurts me that bad, but also I want to like prioritize their marriage. Sure. And I know that something won't be helpful to one

of the sisters that's also struggling with, like, her own mental health stuff right now. Tell me about, well, hold on, you are taking a lot of responsibility about how everyone else is going to feel. Yeah. And if you try to rebuild a path to trust, making sure everybody else is okay, you're not going to come with a clean path. Yeah. You're going to put a bunch of actions down and people are going to follow those actions and it's never going to, you're never going to feel like you're in a place where you can trust again because. because you outsourced the outcomes of some of those actions. And so it would be helpful if, I say with no regard, that sounds harsh, but it's a good exercise.

Just sit down with a yellow pad and a pen and say, in a perfect world, here's what you would need to do for me to trust you again. Okay. And write that down. And then some of those things might be nuts so, right? Yeah. Like, you have to walk around with the blindfold on for the rest of your life. those things are. But this is going to be a weird thing.

I hesitate to use this because it might be the wrong analogy, but hopefully you'll give me some grace. If somebody's struggling with an eating disorder, they can't just never eat again. Like, it's the hardest mental health challenge to overcome because you have to make peace with food, right? Yeah. And so in a similar way, you can't just avoid each other forever.

There's going to be some place where I'm going to have to head into this anxiety. Real quick, before I let you go, tell me about why you think you'll break down in tears when you see your sisters. I think it's just because I'm so close with them, and we kind of share everything about our lives, and we've walked through a lot from childhood with our mom. She was pretty emotionally and mentally abusive and physically abusive towards the older kids. And so I think there's just been like... a huge amount of transparency between all of us sisters. And so it's hard not to share things that are really hard on in life because when we got

married, I moved to a new city with him. And my sisters were like, I mean, my best friends, you grew up in a big family, you share room, we do everything together. And so we've just been so close for so long. It just feels like, and I've heard you say like secrets kill relationships. And it feels like that relationship might be. have some walls built up around it. This is going to be,

people are going to get mad at me on the internet for saying this. Your new primary relationship is your marriage. Yeah. And that is hard. So I would say less if there's secrets, but there are boundaries. Okay. And what I don't want that ever to become is

that you don't have a safe place to go anymore, right? Let's say he got abusive, or let's say this happened again, or let's say he comes tomorrow and says, hey, well, there's one more secret I didn't tell you. And then two days later, there's one more secret I didn't tell you. There comes a moment when I'm going to need to open the gate to my own boundaries for safety purposes, right? Yeah.

But there is a discomfort when I didn't have this with my siblings, but I did have this with some of my childhood buddies. Like, we told everybody each other everything, everything. And it was probably a year into my marriage. My wife, my buddy made a comment, and she was looked at me and she's like, you told them. that and I was like, I tell them everything. She was like, that's ours. And I realized, oh, yeah. Right? So, like, what was the best part of those friendships now? Because I got married to somebody, that's, that's ours now. Not to say that I'm not, don't have a group of friends that I reach out to and say, I'm not all right or I'm struggling or whatever. But there is

some gory details, if you will, that aren't for everybody. Yeah. And dude, if you figure out the balance of that, like how to not to go too far one way or the other. You write that book and I'll buy it. I'll be the first person to buy it because it's tough to figure that out, right? Yeah. And if you feel the need, I've got to say this. I feel like I've got to come clean now. I wouldn't, or I wouldn't recommend it maybe not right.

It's so fresh, maybe down the road, but be honest with your husband about it. I can't carry this all right now. Or you go see a counselor and say, I feel like my husband handed me a cinder block that I got to carry into Christmas dinner with my family and I don't have the tools to set this down right now. Okay.

Because I want to love and honor this secret world that me and him have created but also I don't want to lie to my sisters. There might have been where I writer dies since I was a little kid. Yeah. I think the challenge here for you right now

is this is very, very raw, very painful. It has just been uncovered. And again, I want to circle back. You trusted your guts. and I'm glad that you did that. And to his credit, he put every, every, everything on the table.

And to his credit, he's doing the work. What I don't want you to do is run in with a fresh wound and bleed all over everybody because they love you, your sisters and your family, they're not going to be able to get the blood off their shirt. And so I would love for you and your husband to work together on what is healing look like, what is building trust look like.

And when that wound is healed down the road and it's just a scar, then maybe we have this deeper conversation maybe then we have you can feel like i'm not sharing so much a bloody secret but i am being able to be open and transparent with my sisters again sorry you're going through this and um thanks for your honesty this is a heavy one but i will say this the fact that he's willing to do the work that you're willing to do the work that you're the work that y'all both believe in redemption and you both believe at we're clearing the deck and we're moving forward it gives me high high hopes high hopes for your long-term outcome for the

long-term outcome and survival of your marriage not only survival but it's going to be a good marriage so thank you for sharing it with me thanks for sharing your hurt with me we come back a woman asks how to rebuild her marriage after her repeated emotional infidelity This is amazing Montana Knife Company has just joined the Dr. John Deloney Show team. Everyone who listens to this show knows that me and my son are big hunters and fishermen, we're big outdoorsmen, and everyone also hears me talk about how my wife is one of the most amazing cooks on the planet. And for years, the only knife company that I've used is Montana Knife Company.

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Go to Montanaknife company.com to see what's available right now. That's montananinevecompanie.com. All right, let's go to Austin, Texas and talk to Emily. What's up, Emily? Yes, hello. How are we doing? You're all right, I think. I guess so. A little nervous. Yeah, what's up?

Well, I... Cannonball. Just tuck your knees and jump. It's into the water's deep. Go for it. Well, me and my husband, we've been together for 20 years, and I have had multiple instances where I've reached out to other men. Usually, it was online.

and stuff like that. But recently, it was a little bit closer to home, and I texted his brother. So there's, yeah, it's, like I said, we've been another 20 years. I was, I cheated in 2013 online, sent two guys' pictures, and they got found out because one of the guys ended up telling my husband. He was like, I don't know why, but he just did anyways. Um, and I cut contact with both of them for the majority, but then I did stay in contact with one of them for 10, the last 10 years. I had phone calls for the last 10 years with this guy. And it was only like occasionally every couple years, we would make a phone call, like, how are you doing, whatever? Cause it's on the other side of the country. And, hey, let me ask you this. Why don't you just, why don't you just leave your husband? I, because I love him, like a lot. Like, I really, really do. He does everything. Like, he's, he's freaking perfect for me. Like, we're perfect for each other. We really are. Like, like, that's 20. years I've been here.

I know, but you're super not. That's the challenge. I don't want to leave them. I want to be here. Like, I don't... I don't want anybody else. I really don't. Then, tell me this.

Why don't you want to be you? I mean, I do want to be me. I'm just weird. I like being weird, and I celebrate that and embrace it. It's just, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I can't believe you said that. Like, I want to be with him. I think that you want to, you love the safety

and you love the security of it all. I mean, of course, but I love him too. I know, but you reached out to his brother. You reached out to family friends. You reached out to strangers. To get your heart rate up for that excitement, to feel desire, to feel, to feel deviant. Like that, it's like, oh, we shouldn't be doing this.

Mm-hmm. And so my stock answer would be, if you loved him, you would sit down and say, hey, we've established safety in this relationship I want us to establish like practice have fun with play

and desire and get our heart rates up and have fun and be a little bit and instead you left the house with that you didn't honor him enough

you didn't love him enough to be honest with them about those things or maybe you have been and he just said I'm not into it I'm out no he was trying

and I wasn't the more he was trying it like pushed me away and I don't know why It's not that it pushed you away It's that you left That's what I'm trying to get you He didn't push me away

I it just it It did push me like Like actually was like you know Talk to me like You know let's go out Let's go have fun And I'm just like I don't really want to go out

Like I don't know And what I'm trying to get you Like there's a And it might be pain related Okay so I want to honor it But I I don't I'm not gonna back down From this this chief thing

you're avoiding reality here yeah for sure that's what i was doing i know but but you're avoiding it with me and that means you're avoiding it with yourself because if you love this guy and he's perfect and you want him and you want to be with him you don't call his brother Yeah, I know You don't hurt somebody that deeply To get your heart rate up 30 beats a minute Yeah And so I guess that like

I'm asking you like, why haven't you left him? We have four kids And we've been here so long And we've just like we created this Now we're getting to the truth that to me feels much more honest than because he's perfect and I love him the layer beneath that is

there's a sunk cost to this thing I've got four kids I've got responsibilities he is safe and I want something else and so my let me ask you this question what is it about maybe you don't want escape yourself maybe you do love yourself and you like from the inside out you are completely

okay with you what is it about this life you have co-created with him that feels so suffocating that it just increasingly you it shoots out in wild ways like sending nude photos to somebody and then not and then deceptively not cutting it off for a decade what is it about going back to that person. Feels like an IV drip of aliveness. Well, see, with that person, the last 10 years, it wasn't even

like that. It was actually, it was mostly, to me, I was like just a friend. That's not what that guy ever wanted, and I understand that. But to me, it was just like somebody on the outside of the country, I'm going to keep in, check in, and I didn't, we didn't even do that for the last 10 years. I know that. I know that. I know that. But imagine your husband sitting across the table from you watching the exchange.

Yeah, I know, and hearing about it and still not even completely knowing if that was all or like what we talked about. That's what I'm saying. He's like, did you ever plan to run away with him? I'm like, no, I never plan to run away and start life with him. Like, he's this old dude. Like, I do not want that. He's a loser.

It was just somebody that, like you said, got my heart rate up. I know, I know, but you're looking at love backwards. You're looking at love me first, you sex. And when you get married to somebody and you build a life with somebody, you say, your life first, me second, and I hoped and pray to God that I'm first for you. Right. I need to do that. And you need to do that 20 years ago, or last week before you, you get what I'm saying?

Right. And so when you look through at your partner through you first, it's all about how I feel, and you're pushing me away and this makes me uncomfortable and I don't like that and everything's about me, me, and you just stare at your belly button more and more and more.

Like there is none, zero. When you sit down with your husband and say, he either catches you or you admit it, I've been sending nude pictures to strangers across the country and I've cut them off. There is no circumstance

where it's okay to circle back other than I'm intentionally trying to hurt you or I care so little about you that I'm just going to get one little click on the morphine drip. And that's where I'm asking you that question.

What is so uncomfortable about the world you've co-created? Why do you need to get out of it so bad sometimes? I'm not sure. I'm working on that. Just started with a therapist. And then we also have a couples therapist. So I'm doing individual therapy, and we're going to couples therapy.

Okay, I'll just tell you on the front end, therapy's awesome and great for digging into, like, what is happening inside of my guts, inside of my chest when I do these things. But before you walk into a therapist office, you have to make two commitments. One, you will tell a therapist, both your couples, therapists and individual, 100% of the truth. And I think that's really tough for you because it hurts. I can, though. I mean, I can, and I have, and I've said everything. It doesn't feel like it to him, and I understand that because I lied for so long. He's got two decades.

Yeah, there you go. And the second thing is, is before we get to the why is this happening, and what is a ironclad, this cannot and will not ever happen again? I know, for sure. You can't, and it won't. Okay. But then you look at him, and you hold both of his hands and say, I surrender. he gets to make the path back for trust and you have to decide whether I'm going to walk that path or not

and what I think what has happened is you've done these things over the years and then you tell him what's going to happen next and he's beat down and he's exhausted and he's heartbroken and he says okay and what has to happen now is you take a knee and surrender and say you make the path back to trust I'm that much I'm in

And it might look like I have a brick phone With one number in it, it's mine I'm being ridiculous I'm saying we don't have internet at the house You throw your laptop out in the street And we run over it with a car But he gets to decide what the path back is

Yeah he's in my phone He's got everything right now so I know but He's not gonna be able to go to Thanksgiving Without side eyeing you and his brother he's not going to be able to breathe and so maybe it's you saying I have blown up

throwing a grenade in the middle of your family I'm going to opt out I want you to go Thanksgiving with your family this time well we pretty much host the Thanksgiving it's at our house so it's like really no avoiding it there's no such thing as no avoiding it

your marriage isn't too desperate of a place and if you'll allow yourself you're in a really desperate place. Right. Because either you're in a marriage you don't want to be in, you're in a life that you've co-created that you no longer want to be in, or you're really, really frustrated with yourself, and you don't know where to turn.

Both of those avenues are a desperate place. Right. Push back and challenge me if you think I'm wrong. Well, I don't think you're wrong about me and myself. It's like about wanting to be here. I definitely want to be here and I want to have a life with him. And I see as getting old together and I want that. I guess it's just myself.

Okay, give me, give me the run-up. Give me the two weeks before. He was at the house a lot, working out in the house and doing stuff in the garage. He was just around a lot. and you were into him I guess don't but see that's just an evasive thing

yes I was having feelings for my husband's brother yeah it's weird and I don't know why it's not weird I mean I guess technically it's weird

it is I mean not my brother but if it's my brother be a little definitely definitely crossing some lines but yeah

I don't know I just it just feels like this is a game to you and it's just it's not a game I know it's not a game because it's my husband

like I know but it's you it's you it's you it's you it's your husband it's your kids it's an extended family and it's okay to see somebody who comes over and be like man that guy's really attractive

or i like being around that guy but i'm married to him and so i need you to be done working at the house or i'm going to leave or i'm going to go talk to somebody i'm going to put my phone away those are decisions adults make if i'm walking down the sidewalk with my wife and some beautiful woman walks by. I can acknowledge, man, she's beautiful. And I keep walking. I can turn and gawk at her. I can secretly behind my wife's back, get her number. But I committed to my wife. Yes, I know. And I just, I need to have self-control. I know that. I just have to do it and be committed and be here. I was just, I was on birth control for two years and it really messed up my hormones and then I came off birth control. And as soon as I came off birth control, everything came

flooding back including those kind of hormones so it was just like yeah but hormones are a context they're not an excuse I know they're not because I did it before birth control as well and it's just like I said I was muted for two years I was muted for two years I get that I get that then tell your husband buckle up buddy right you know it's everybody obviously that's this is what happen. He already knew as soon as I was going off birth control. He was like, are you going to cheat on me again? And I was like, no. I'm not trying to laugh, but I'm trying to cry. I got that. I totally get that. I get that. That's the way I handle it too. There's a, there's a, a, what I would call a reckoning of reality that has to happen.

Which is this, this sense, and I want you to do it with the therapist, not by your yourself because it's really heavy, but it's this sense that I betrayed myself and I betrayed this man who's given 20 years of his life to me. And if he's got pro, if he's abusive, he's whatever, you've got to be honest about that stuff too, but he sounds like he's a great guy. He is great. Okay. And I find myself escalating this thing. Now I'm going after his brother. there's a reckoning that has to happen I got to stand in the ashes of reality because now he can't call his brother

to come over and help us some stuff and yeah he's got a reckoning with his brother but he's got a reckoning with you and it's you fully not only taking verbal ownership I did this thing, I did this thing, and I don't want to ever happen again. You're going to have to sit and feel it. I betrayed myself.

I betrayed him. Or I didn't betray myself. I just don't want to do this anymore. I wouldn't recommend that, but that can be the path you take. But there's something about just owning this. And then making some really powerful declarative statements. I will never do this again. And I take a knee, honey.

you get to decide the path back to trust because I've blown it up too many times. I've been an untrustworthy spouse. Will you still have me? And if so, what does the path look like? Because I'm all in. Or I'm not. I'm not all in. And you get to make that choice.

You still have agency here. But it's not a game. And it's not whoops. And it's not, oh, the hormones made, it's not none of that. that you're making some choices that now you've got to look at the guy that you love in the eye

and say, I hurt you again. I got to own it. I got to ask you, where you still have me. Keep doing the work, Emily. Keep doing the work. Got a long, long way to go. We come back.

Everybody's heading to the holidays. If you're listening to this episode right now, you're in the middle of the holidays. And if you're like millions and millions of folks, you have found yourself in holiday chaos, I got an idea for you when we come right back. All right, I'm excited to tell you about a new sponsor for this show, Cove. Cove is an affordable DIY home security company that has the mission of helping you protect your family for less than a dollar a day. I am on the road all the time. I've got kids coming and going, and I need my home to feel safe.

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