The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Is Abusive but I Can’t Bring Myself To Leave Him

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

The Dr. John Delony Show is a caller-driven show that offers real people a chance to be heard as they struggle with relationship issues and mental health challenges. John will give you practical advice on how to connect with people, how to take the next right step when you feel frozen, and how to cut through the depression and anxiety that can feel so overwhelming. You are not alone in this battle. You are worth being well—and it starts by focusing on what you can control. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show. We want to talk to YOU!   Show Notes for this Episode How do I deal with chronic pain after my fibromyalgia diagnosis? My husband is abusive but I can't bring myself to leave him Sister-in-law needs a place to live but I need to set boundaries Lyrics of the Day: "I Hope You Dance" - Lee Ann Womack   As heard on this episode:  BetterHelp dreamcloudsleep.com/delony Conversation Starters Redefining Anxiety John's Free Guided Meditation Ramsey+   tags: boundaries, marriage, abuse, sexuality/intimacy, family, sickness/illness   These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately.

On today's show, we talk to a woman dealing with chronic pain and how she can be well and whole and grieve the life she's missing. We talk to a woman who's ready to leave her abusive marriage, and we talk to another woman whose sister-in-law just won't leave. Stay tuned. What's up? What's up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show. This is take 150. I'm not having a good morning. Kelly, James, what is that? I'm not doing a great job. Hold on. Let's just get to the point here. Welcome to the show.

If you're new, this isn't how we start most shows. Normally, I say things like, hey, welcome. We talk about mental health relationships. I'm so glad you're here. You're handsome, brilliant, beautiful. I'm glad that we're walking with you. I say all that kumbaya stuff. And then I tell you the number is 1-844-693-3291.

If you want to be on the show, it's 1-844-693-3291. If you want to be on the show, it's 1-844-693-3291. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask. Go to johndeloney.com. Join the newsletter. Buy Redefining Anxiety. I try to do all that stuff. But today, holy smokes. So we batch these shows.

And so we will record a couple of shows right in a row So sometimes when I'm like Hey, good morning everybody It's the first show Hey everybody, it's good to see you It's the afternoon and we're recording the first one This is not the first one This is the second show

And that last show Not my finest work, everybody It was a great show. Are you sure that was only one show? It feels like it was a hundred shows. Why? Because it took 119 takes to just do the teaser. That little part at the beginning of the show,

it's like, on today's show we talk about, I don't know what happens. Well, it is, it's tough, because at the end of the show, you have to summarize the calls that we had during the show, and you have to do it in 15 seconds. And we have a countdown timer, and you have to just summarize it kind of on the fly.

And sometimes your one take wonder, but sometimes it takes three or four. Rarely does it take 906. I feel like we've recorded Five shows today And we've got one One That's okay, we're amassing a stellar blooper reel

For the end of the year Dude, I will never be able to work anywhere else One day I'm gonna be like Yeah, I got a great opportunity I'm gonna go be president of a college And James, you'll go No, you're not And I'll be like, yeah, I am

And then you'll say I'm just gonna send you something in your email box And then you'll go, no, you're not. And I'll be like, yeah, I know I am. And then you'll say, I'm just going to send you something in your email box. And then you'll just send a blooper reel to which I will then call that college and say, thank you, but no thanks. I'm a YouTuber from here on out. That's just the job or a podcaster or radio or whatever. To the wonderful Sarah who edits this poor thing. I'm sorry. Just pick a restaurant. You and your lovely husband. Y'all can just go. I don't even... Oh, jeez. Let's go to Rose in Denver, Colorado.

Near, far. What's up, Rose? Wherever you are. How's it going? Okay. How about you? Do people just sing that to you all the time? Eh, not really. No, because that show was like a long time ago.

Oh, jeez, I'm a moron. So what's up, Rose? How's it going? It's going okay. So I am 28 years old, and I was fairly recently diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Oh, no. So I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate this whole chronic illness life thing. How long have you bounced around from doctor to doctor to symptom to symptom before somebody finally gave you a diagnosis?

Looking back, I'm pretty sure I've had it for at least the last 10 to 15 years. When I was in high school, we tried to figure out what was going on and I bounced around with a few doctors and eventually just like gave up and decided the symptoms weren't that bad. Then during COVID, it kind of struck me as weird that like, you mean it's not normal to have all these random symptoms every day? And so, and things started getting worse. So I bounced around for about a year-ish, maybe six months until we nailed it down this time. So for people who don't know, give us a couple of things that you experience on a regular basis that other people wouldn't notice when they meet you at a coffee shop. So some of the main ones for me, I always have a sore throat like that. It's just like, I don't even know what it would feel like to not have some sort of sore throat. Uh,

um, I have a lot of muscle aches and pains, a lot of fatigue. Uh, standing is really hard for me. I can't stand for very long periods at a time. So like, you know, I just have to sit down more often than most people would. I'm sorry you're going through that. I hate that for you. Chronic pain, man. Jeez Louise. I can't wrap my head around it. I just know when my neck hurts for a few weeks because I did something stupid. It just affects everything, right? Or like when you smash your toe or something or you have a tooth that hurts. It just affects everything. I just can't imagine waking up every day like that. And, man.

Let me ask you this. Tell me about your childhood. Was it chaotic? Was it fun? Was there challenges there? Tell me about it. I mean, a little bit of all of it. Definitely was chaotic in some respects. Had very hands-on involved parents. Overly involved?

What's that? Overly involved? At times. Yeah. What's that? Overly involved? At times. My brother has a lot of health problems, and his were more obvious than mine, where he would be in the hospital for weeks at a time. With what? They never really did figure out all of it. They finally diagnosed him with some neurological stuff.

Okay. But he would go for weeks at a time where he would be in excruciating pain or where his muscles would just lock up where he couldn't bend his leg or that kind of thing. And like I said, he would be in and out of the hospital quite a bit from doctor to doctor. So, so has anybody ever, and I want to ask you this and this is, you can, and I know people do this to folks who are diagnosed with fibromyalgia all the time. So this is me walking with you. Is that cool? Okay. Trust me there. Anytime I hear of a family, a system that have recurring migraines, recurring chronic pain issues, recurring asthma issues, I always want to – there's always the environmental thing, right?

Is there mold in the house and things like that? Mm-hmm. But I also wonder what is the – is there any contributing chaos? Is there a chance that this is the body's trying to respond to dysfunctional relationships to – is this the body's way of responding to chaos is an overactive inflammatory response system or a overreactive all the fighter flights are up and it comes out this way or that way or does that make sense has anyone ever talked to you or your brother about um stress cycles or when this stuff flares up it happens to be around seasons when you've got a lot going on or covid for instance or your mom acted a certain way your dad was super overly involved does that make sense is

there anything environmental that may have contributed to some of this um yeah i i definitely think there there were some things here and there that uh in my childhood that definitely, and even just now, I know that one of my triggers for flares is stress. Like if I'm upset about something or if I'm really stressed out about something, that's one of my biggest flare triggers to cause it to get really bad. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? It's been a little rocky the last year or two. It was, uh, we were really close growing up, but last year or two, uh, it's been a little harder. Were you close growing up in a equal partnership? Um, not that y'all were

equal. They were your parents, obviously, but in a way that they honored and loved you, or was it a good relationship? Cause you did everything they honored and loved you or was it a good relationship because you did everything they said exactly the way they wanted it done and you performed well yeah closer to the ladder okay um this is i've got no research to back up what i'm saying here so i don't want to be a YouTube conspiracy nerd or have like the, I'm telling you the podcast that nobody will talk about this, right? But overactive immune responses I've seen and or heard about in performative child-parent relationships. I've seen that in abusive child-parent relationships. I've seen it in neglectful. Not neglectful like there's no food and water, but neglectful in nobody ever just looked their kid in the eye, looked you in the eye and said, I'm so glad that you're my daughter.

And in an effort to solve some of that, I wonder if the body just spins itself up. And sometimes that looks like ADHD and sometimes that looks like, it depends on what your genetic cocktail is in your environment and part of your genoparetry. All I have to say is this, I don't care how you got where you are. You're here now, right? Yeah. And so thank you for letting me just ask those questions. I'm always just curious when I'm walking back with somebody who experiences this. So how can I help you directly? So I was wondering, um, I know kind of twofold question. Uh, I know you've talked a lot about

grief on the show and kind of like that idea of like holding a ceremony or writing letters or whatever you need to do to mourn the fact that my life just doesn't look the way I thought it would. Um, but I was wondering if you could speak more to what that looks like when it's, it's not a once and done loss, but it's just this kind of living in uncertainty where I never know how I'm going to feel from day to day. And there's, it's impossible to try to make plans because I have no idea how I'm going to be feeling in a week, you know? Um, and like all the little losses, you know? Absolutely. Love that question. You just nailed on the chronic pain loop-de-loop spiral of death, which is this. Let's say that you have some genetic stuff, which I think would be fair because your brother experiences too, some environmental stuff.

And if we really got deep with relationships with your family, with your brothers and sisters, but we'd probably find some stuff. All that fair? Okay. So you end up with an overactive pain system, pain detection system. Let's just say it like that. I'm trying to not be a nerd here. And so you are left wondering, can I make plans? Can I go out? I'm just going to stay at home. I can't eat that because that makes me feel like this. I can't even turn on the news. And suddenly you start curating your life in tighter and tighter circles. And you stop hanging out with other people. You stop laughing. You stop having fun. You stop having spontaneous joy. Nobody wants to have sex with their spouse when they don't feel good, when their throat hurts

all the time, when they got headaches, you know what I mean, when their neck hurts. And so what does our body do? It sounds the alarms. We need connection. We need those relationships. We need meaningful work. We need peace. We need sleep. We need movement and exercise, which are things that chronic pain takes from us. And so what happens? It spins up the alarms and the chronic pain accelerates. Is this your experience? Yes. Yes. So here's the cornerstone key. Put everything, anchor everything into this one thing. You have to make peace with your body. It's at war with you and you cannot return fire for fire.

And how do you do that? You start being curious about your body, not pissed off. You start being curious and inquisitive. I wonder why my throat hurts today. Is there something stressful? Did I eat something? Not, son of a, my throat hurts. Now I can't go to the, you see the difference?

One keeps your frontal lobe engaged. One says, no, I'm safe, I'm fine. My legs hurt and I can't, I gotta sit down. Why do I gotta sit down today? What's stressful in my environment today that is starting to spin me up a little bit? That is different than that rage. I wish I could just stand up for a whole concert. Why do I have to sit down like everybody else?

Now I got to get seats back here. He's not, or she's not going to want to sit with me because they want to stand up and I'm not going to go to the show. You see what I'm saying? So anchoring in, I'm going to make peace with this. My guess is I may be crazy. I may be crazy. I'm not a fibromyalgia expert. I'm going to connect with somebody. In fact, my buddy, who's a medical doctor here, I'm going to sit down while we're here. He's here this weekend. We'll sit over dinner. I'd like to learn more about this, but I know you have to have connection. I know that some shape, form or fashion, you've got to sleep. That says, tells your body we're

okay. You've got to have community, laughter. You've got to be engaged with other people. You've got to figure out ways to move your body. Even if it's just a little walk, maybe you can't crush a CrossFit exercise workout ever, but can you go for a walk? Can you just move your arms, right? Can you, I don't know, do yoga? What are those practices? How can I make peace with my body? And so sometimes when we are writing letters to ourselves to deal with childhood trauma, we are acknowledging.

We're not so much making peace. We are staring it down. We are turning and facing that forest fire, as Terrence Real says. This is different. These are letters to yourself. Man, I wonder why today is this. I'm feeling like this. Do you feel the difference there?

Yeah. And then grief comes when you wake up that morning and you've made plans because you leaned into it and you can't get up and go. Then you grieve, I have to miss that concert tonight. So frustrated. I'm sad. Pre-grieving something assures you that your body's going to respond with an elevated stress response. Mm-hmm. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. Don't pre-grieve. Don't pre-hate. Don't, don't, what do you call them? What was the thing that we did in, when preemptive war,

don't go to preemptive war on your body. Yeah. Do you do that? Yeah. Yeah. And so you know who loves you? Your body. And when your body detects it's at war, it goes to war back. And war hurts. And you have an elevated sense of pain. Mm-hmm. Is this so annoying? I feel like I'm just being annoying. No, no, it makes sense. Yeah. And it's frustrating, I know.

When is a time you haven't hurt? Do you remember a time? Not really. Because like said it like looking back the symptoms go back all the way to at least high school probably younger than that even yeah have you ever met with a counselor yeah i i've been seeing a counselor trying to work through some of the stuff with my family okay and then through you know like i actually met with her last night and i was kind of we we were actually kind of talking similar things there where I'm like, I feel like I'm wasting more energy trying to avoid having a flare than if I would just let it go. And if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't, you know.

So can I tell you, you just saying that makes me smile. You got a different set of cards than most people. Some people got three aces dealt to them right out of the deck. And some people got like a two and a five and a seven, right? We can't always, we can't go back and redeal the cards. We deal with the ones we got. And what I want you to do is to make peace with Rose. And can I tell you this, if nobody's ever told you this,

I'm glad you're around. Thank you. Like, I'm glad you're kicking it there in Denver do you have friends yes do you have

are you are you married are you engaged are you dating anybody no no I'm single but I

just in the last few months was able to get connected with a group of people at a church near me but like they meet every week and they've been really supportive awesome Just in the last few months, I was able to get connected with a group of people at a church near me. Yeah. That, like, they meet every week, and they've been really supportive. Awesome.

So, can I tell you, you're worth having friends. You're worth being friends with. You will bring value to friends. And one day, if you choose to match eye sparkles with somebody, they'll be blessed to have you in their life too. Thank you. All of this starts with, I'm not going to war with my body anymore. I'm going to make peace. And I'm going to go ahead and buy the concert ticket.

And I'm going to go ahead and buy the plane ticket. And I'm going to go ahead and say, for ticket and I'm going to go ahead and say for sure I'm ready to go to coffee tomorrow. And then if there's a flare up then you say I can't make it. Body's taking off on me again. And if it happens every time you're about

to get coffee maybe there's some social anxiety there. Maybe there's some disconnection that you need to lean into. Or that can be something that you can talk about

with your counselor. Let's isolate. When did my body start to have these flare-ups? What's going on in my world? Is it when I find myself owing a lot of money? Is it when I find myself wherever I happen to be? Lean into those things. Lean into those things. I'm grateful for you. Thank you so much for the call, folks. We'll be right back on the Dr. John Delaney Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, October is the season for wearing costumes and masks.

And if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going as Brad Pitt in Fight Club era because, I mean, we pretty much have the same upper body, but whatever. All right, look, it's costume season. And let's be honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind costumes and masks

more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social setting. We do this around our families. We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life, and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can learn to be honest with yourself, and you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live an honest, authentic, direct life. Costumes and masks should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. If you're considering therapy, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy.

You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for your schedule. You just fill out a short online survey and you get matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the masks with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. All right, we are back. Let's go to Jolene in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. What's up, Jolene? Hey, how are you? Outstanding. How are you? I'm great.

Excellent. So how can I help? What's going on? I've got a question. I've been married for 27 years, and I think I'm done. I'm kind of working on a divorce plan, and I hate it. I don't want to do that, and I want to know how I can help my kids. Why are you done? What happened? It's been going on for a long time. We've run a business together and now I'm kind of doing it on my own and he has another job. And I just, it was pretty good before we had kids. And he's, you know, after we had kids, he just, he wouldn't help at all with the kids.

He kind of just, we would work side by side with the business all day and come home at the end of the day. And he would grab a beer and go sit on the couch and everything was left up to me. And so I just kind of dealt with it. And I got really resentful for a long time. My kids are 14 and 16. And when I was pregnant with my youngest, I asked him, you know, I kind of had a breakdown. I said, I'm really tired. I can't do this by myself. I really need you to help me.

And, you know, I mean, I just, I need you to participate and be part of the family. And I don't know where he came up with this, but he told me, he said, you know, I'm just a bad dad. I'm just a bad husband. You need to find somebody that makes you happy. And, you know, I didn't know what to think, you know. And the first thing I did was say, you know, no, you're not a bad dad. You're not a bad husband. You know, I just need some help.

And I know he had a really bad childhood. There was a lot of abuse there. He watched his dad abuse his mom, and they're still together. So, um, you know, and I just, I don't know how to deal with some of the things he's saying. I don't really feel safe with him anymore. And so I feel like I've got to kind of work this out and make a plan in private, like, you know, on my own and not really let him know what's going on. And I feel really bad about that, you know, doing that on my own and not telling him. But I just, I feel like I have to.

And my kids have seen some things they probably shouldn't have. What have they seen? And they've seen him, and this is my oldest, but he's, and I'm sorry, I've never told this, I've never said anything to anybody about this before. I've kind of kept it myself. Everybody thinks he's a great guy and we have a great marriage, and it has been for the most part, but there's been some pretty dark things that have happened. What did your son see? We got in an argument one night. I just didn't feel like having sex. I wasn't in the mood. I was trying. I asked him to put a different movie on or something. He got mad and got in an argument.

I went to go sleep on the couch and he came out and started choking me, put his hand on my face, and my son woke up and saw it and told him to quit hurting Mommy. And that was a long time ago, and that doesn't happen very often. But, you know, he just... Jolene. Jolene.

Yeah. Take a big, deep breath and hold it. Okay. Hold it. And hold it. Three, two, let it out. Now, your shoulders are bunched up around your ears right now. Why don't you just drop them down?

Okay. Okay. You don't have to apologize for him. You don't have to make this. You don't have to minimize this. You're not, you're not bad. You're not broken. You're not broken You're married to somebody who hurts you Yeah And you're married to somebody who's hurting your kids Either directly or indirectly Yeah And does he have some demons?

Oh, absolutely Yeah, he does Hold on, hold on, hold on You're coming to his defense You're running to his defense He You're running to his defense. He doesn't need you to defend him. Okay. He's got demons, for sure.

But that's a context, not an excuse. He doesn't get to hurt Jolene. Jolene's worth being loved. Jolene's worth sleeping all night Feeling safe Yeah Jolene's worth not feeling like having sex sometimes Jolene's not

Is worth not worrying about her boys being safe Okay Okay Have you ever said the words out loud I'm done to anybody other than me No Okay thank you for sharing that Thank you

Go big or go home right Might as well share it with everybody You can't do this by yourself Do you have somebody that's walking alongside you I've got an appointment with the counselor Next week Do this by yourself. Do you have somebody that's walking alongside you? I've got an appointment with the counselor next week. And I'm doing all that behind his back, which makes me feel really guilty. But I need to ask him.

Jolene. Yeah. Yeah. You are not safe. I know. There's nothing to feel guilty about. Now, I will never tell somebody you should get divorced. I'm not ever going to do that.

I don't ever want to come back and say I did this because you told me to. But you're not safe. And you haven't been safe for a long time. And you need to go talk to somebody today. Okay? I know you made an appointment with the counselor. I need you to go talk to your lawyer today. I don't know what you're starting to thinking about divorce.

I'm thinking about that. If you're down this road, you need to go talk to a professional and be on the way. In your head, if you start adding it up and thinking about it and building it up building it up you're having conversations in your head that nobody else hears yeah but that disconnection that annoyance that resentment that starts to be felt everywhere your kids feel it and your husband feels it your clients feel it your customers everybody feels it. Your clients feel it. Your customers feel it. Everybody feels it. And that's where we get a lot of problems. That's where we get the blow-ups and the, whoa, where did that come from? And people say things they can never take back

and they do things they can never take back. When you first started this call, you said, I think I'm done. So I'll ask you directly, are you done? I am. I don't want it. I don't want to be. I know, I know, I directly, are you done? I am. I don't want to be. I know, I know, I know, I know. Nobody wants this.

And what made me start to feel that way is I got to thinking I don't want to be married to him when my kids are grown up and gone. I just don't. And then I felt bad for feeling like I'm standing behind them and making them, you know, I guess, protect me because they're around. He's, you know, I guess that puts the brakes on some stuff sometimes and it doesn't happen very often, but. But it happens. Yeah, it happens. And, and. And the threat of it happening is violent too. The cloud of it could go off

at any moment is violence. 12-year-olds walking on their tippy toes because they don't know when dad's going to set off on mom is violence.

Yeah. And I've come to my kids' defense too and then they apologize for me getting, you know, for them dragging me into it. You got to get out,

Jolene. Yeah, you're not safe or he's got to go. And somewhere along the way, somebody told you

that your feelings didn't count, that your job was to make sure everybody else was okay. And I may be the first person to ever tell you this, but what's happening to you is not okay and you don't have a thing to feel guilty for. And nobody wanted this. You'll grieve that later.

You'll grieve the crap out of this later. But today is about safety. Today is about my boys will not see this. My boys will not have to get between their dad and their mom ever again. My boys will not walk through this house and wonder, is dad going to smack one of them? How do I talk to them? I don't want them to grow up and be the same way.

I want to put a stop to this right now, but I don't want to run their dad down to them. I don't want to make them feel like their dad's a horrible person. They already know that. They already know that. They already know. Your young son already had to say, Daddy, quit hurting Mom. They know.

Yeah. What they need is a different picture about what dignity and respect and treating a wife actually looks like. And they don't have that picture. No. Of a woman that says, No more.

This is what love looks like. This is what connection looks more. This is what love looks like. This is what connection looks like. This is what it feels like to have a good night's sleep and not worry about whether something bad is going to happen to mom. They've never felt that ever. And so the greatest thing you can do for your boys right now is be safe. Because they are absorbing a hurricane inside that house. Yeah.

You've heard the old fight or flight, you know, that was designed for when a bear came to a cave. Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, she's got a great story that she talks about you know the bear came to the cave and your body's designed to go into fight or flight but it's designed for a quick burst happens really fast and then it's over you either kill that bear you run away from that bear or that bear eats you that's about how that thing's designed. We don't have a biological system for what happens when that bear moves in the house. And we are on fight or flight every day, every minute of every week. And you deserve better than that. Your boys deserve better than that. And I hope this isn't controversial.

Your husband deserves better than that. Yeah. No, he does. I just, I don't know how to help him. That's not your job. I feel like I'm leaving him behind, but... Honey, he left you a long time ago. I know. He left you a long time ago.

And now you have to be the grown-up once again and go through the paperwork and figure out what the finances are going to look like and how the business is going to get split up, and it's going to be hell. Yeah. That's what I'm telling you. You've got to have somebody to walk with you, not just a counselor, but you've got to have some friends.

Do you have some friends that you can count on? I really don't. All of our friends are both of our friends, and they think he's a great guy, and I'm just, I don't know. I'm afraid they're going to take sides, you know, because they don't see what we see. They will, and that still doesn't mean you don't do the right thing. Yeah. I don't say the right thing.

That sounded like I was getting on to you. I'm, like, doing a safe thing. Yeah. Okay? I'm like doing a safe thing. Yeah. Okay. And I'm heartbroken for you, but you know what? So answer your question. What are the things, how do you talk to your boys? You tell them mommy has not been safe.

You don't have to mention your husband at all. Mommy's not been safe. And we are going to find, we're going to either live here without dad or we're going to get a new place however that plays out that's between you and the lawyers and the mental health professionals and all that yeah but we're going to go to a place where we're safe and we're going to develop a set of family values that we're going to live by and there's going to be problems in school because they're going to lash out that we're going to live by. And there's going to be problems in school because they're going to lash out and you're going to love them and connect with them and hold them accountable. And they're going to struggle academically or they're going to struggle

socially. All those things are going to happen. And you know that you're not going to get frustrated and be caught off guard by it because they grew up in an abusive household. And you're going to continue to love them. You're going to continue to hold them accountable, and you're going to have to figure out groups in your community. You're going to have to figure out connection in your community. And this is going to be hard. And in this case, hard is right. Okay. You deserve safety, Jolene.

You deserve love. You deserve to be able to laugh and be able to say, not tonight, honey, I'm not feeling it. And not have some man's hands around your throat. Yeah. Do you believe me? I do. Okay.

I do. I know it's going to be really, really hard. It is. It's going to suck. It is. But it's also going to be, I don't think you've fully exhaled in years. Probably not. I know you haven't.

And I want you to make one switch for me, okay? Okay. You're a peacekeeper. That's why people love you. You make sure everybody else has something to eat. You make sure everybody else's drink is full. You make sure everybody else is... You go to somebody

else's house for dinner and you help them clean up. Am I right? Yes. Yeah. I want you for the first time in your life to start treating Jolene like you treat everybody else. You are worthy of you loving you. You're worthy of saying, no, that hurts.

You cannot do that. You are worthy of saying, you will not talk to our boys that way. You will not hit our kids. You will not hit me in front of those kids. I will not let them grow up in this environment. I will let you be a grownup and figure out how you're going to pay rent, how you're going to find your own place.

That is up to you. As for me and my house, we're going to be safe. And we're going to have peace. And we're going to have laughter back. And we're going to be safe and we're going to have peace and we're going to have laughter back. We're going to open the shades back. I want you to start treating Jolene like you treat everybody else. Deal? Deal.

Thank you so much for your bravery. Thank you so much for your call. I cannot, I cannot tell you this enough, Jolene. Get somebody to walk alongside you today. Even if it's one of those friends that you're like, one of those friends has a wife.

Who knows? One of those friends has a wife or somebody who just has their suspicions. Reach out and sit down with that person and say, I need you to walk alongside me because things are about to get messy for a season. And we'll be with you the whole way, Jolene. Don't hesitate to give me a call.

We'll be right back on the Dr. John Deloney Show. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make

to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you so you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, we are back. We're going to go to Elsa in, oh gosh, Oklahoma City. What's up, Elsa?

Oh, hi. How are you? I'm good. As a Texan, we were just raised to hate Oklahoma City. It's just kind of in the DNA, but I'll go with it this one time. What's up, Elsa? Oh, hi. So I have a question. Um, my sister-in-law had been living with us for the past year, uh, five years. And she recently moved out earlier this year. She went to my

sister-in-law house because she bought a house and she was renting out a room to help with the mortgage. Turns out that last week she called my husband and told him that my sister-in-law's husband was sexually harassing her. And now my husband wants her to move back with us. And the thing is that I want to live by myself. I want us to live by ourselves. No way, Elsa. What are you talking about? I don't want to have people at my house anymore. How old is she?

She's 28. Why doesn't she get her own place? The thing is that we are from Colombia and in our community, if you are a woman, you don't get out of the house until you're married. And he feels like if she moves out on her own, first of all, she doesn't make enough money to pay the rent on her own. And second of all, he's scared that something bad might happen to her because she's a woman and she's going to be on her own. And I also feel guilty because she's going through a hard time with all of the things that are going on. I feel guilty that if something happens to her because she's living on her own and, you know, there's a lot of bad people in the world.

That if something happens to her, I'll feel guilty. But at the same time, I just want my own space, my privacy. Absolutely. Number one, thank you for the call, Elsa. You are awesome. Thank you for the call. Thank you for being honest. I know this is hard. And I don't want to make light of this because I think it's real and it's beautiful and it's messy.

It's a weight of culture and cultural expectations. And every culture is different. Some cultures say, your parents didn't get a home. They didn't plan they're going to be homeless. Other cultures are like, no, mom and dad are going to live with us. That's just the way that happens. And some cultures are very paternalistic. I haven't heard it to this degree.

I've heard it with younger women. I've never heard it with a 28-year-old. Well, yeah, 28. Because she moved here five years ago, and that's why she was living with us. And if we decide not to take her in, first of all, my husband is very upset that I don't want her back. Sure. And he's calling me a bad person, that I'm mean, that I'm very selfish. And that's getting to me because now I feel guilty.

Of course. And I'm thinking, well, maybe I am a bad person. Maybe I should let her move back in. Come on, Elsa. And also my mother-in-law and my father-in-law, if they're back in Colombia, they don't know what's going on, but whenever they find out

and they know that we don't want her back, yeah, they're going to be very upset with my husband. All right. So have you ever heard of the word boundaries? Oh, John, I'm learning to put boundaries, to learn to do that with myself because I feel like my husband takes advantage of my lack of boundaries. Good.

Okay. So are you first gen? Were you born in Colombia or were you born in the States? Yes. No, we moved here from Colombia. Okay. So are you first gen? Were you born in Columbia? Are you born in the States? Yes. No, we moved here from Columbia. Okay. So I want to tell you that the international students that I've worked with over the years, as they would come from wherever they came from, all these remarkable places all over the world, they would, I loved having them in my classes. I loved having them in my student groups because they brought such a rich new perspective to how the world works. And the things that my American students would just take as, well, this is just the way this is.

It was always so great to have a different perspective. And I loved watching my international students gain a different perspective And They ended up saying I like my own space Yeah I don't like sharing a bathroom With another woman who's my

Husband I want to be the most important woman in his life Not third behind his mom That lives in another country And his sister that lives in another country and his sister that lives in the other room. Right? And that's how I feel like, like his family's first and I'm just second.

Yes. And so are you ready for that conversation that's going to be hard and it might blow up everything? Or do you want to just swallow it and say, this is the lot in life I've got and ride on into the sunset? Okay. So part of me wants to just give in and have her move back

with us, but I know that I'm going to feel resentment. Yes. And part of you wants your own house with your own husband and you want to be recklessly in love with him and not have to worry about his sister walking in on you and you want to not live under the shadow

of his parents who live in another country. And you want to be able to make your own grown-up decisions for your own grown-up family. Right? Yes. But also, part of me feels like I'm always thinking bad things are going to happen and I feel like, okay, what if she gets

hurt by someone because she lives on her own? That's right. That's called catastrophizing. That is, you are always looking for. That's what I do all the time. I know, I know. But what if, what if that happens? I'm going to feel guilty.

So Elsa, you're going to feel guilty if you don't do anything and you just let your life go by as the third place, the third woman in line for your husband. You're going to feel guilty if you tell your husband, hey, what if we got married? I mean, now we've been married five years. What if it was just us for a season? You're going to feel guilty if she goes on her own and date somebody who's an idiot. It sounds like all these other things aren't the problem. It sounds like the problem is you feel guilty about everything. Because you haven't taken ownership of what Elsa wants and who Elsa is. Yeah, you're right. And it's super common.

It's culturally appropriate. It's super common in any culture for the wife to be the person responsible for making sure everybody else is at peace. Just like the last caller. Every drink is full. Everyone else has food. Everything's cleaned up. up but what do I do if I decide not to take her in and then my husband he's not going to be happy about it and

I don't know is he going to be more unhappy that the woman he loves and the woman he married is miserable or is he going to be more unhappy that his sister who's 28 years old and is choosing not to get her own one bedroom apartment somewhere

is at this point I don't know because all throughout our marriage I always feel like he's he's always taking care of his parents and

and I get that I get that it's culturally that's culturally appropriate I get that and that's also I mean it's respectful I mean I get that. I get that. That's culturally appropriate. I get that. And that's also, I mean, it's respectful. I mean, I get that. Have you and him sat down and said, where are we headed? What is our marriage going to look like?

What are we doing? And we have. And we have. Okay. And I don't know. I don't know. Because if I decide not to take her in, I feel like he's going to keep pushing. But you're always going to feel.

You're always going to feel. You're going to have to make – there is not an outcome here where you feel okay, where you go, ah-ha, I win. Or, ah, that's the way that's going to be. That's not going to happen. So I wanted to ask you, they plan on not telling my other sister-in-law and I'm not like, that's their problem. Like, I'm not going to get in the middle of that, but, but I feel like they should let my sister-in-law know that her husband is doing.

Your brother hasn't confronted this man? No. Who's sexually assaulting his sister? He told me that he's going to do it eventually, but first he wants my sister-in-law to move in with us. I get that. There's a safety thing involved there. I get that.

It feels like everything's out of whack. It feels like there's a lot of things being done to keep up appearances there's a lot of things being done because quote unquote that's the way we're supposed to do them and underneath the appearances and underneath the that's the way we're supposed to do them is a wife who's drowning is a woman who's being sexually assaulted and is going unaddressed. Right. Yes. And also that she doesn't want, he doesn't want to hurt my married sister-in-law's feelings. He's not hurting him. Her husband who sucks is.

Yeah. Not him. He needs to, man, that dude needs, I mean, he sounds like an incredible, like a good man.

He's good, but I feel like he's too good. He's got things out of whack. That's right. Like the priorities are out. I would love to just spend some time with him and have coffee with him and listen and learn from him. I guarantee he's got a wealth of wisdom. But right now his priorities are out of whack. I get honoring and taking care of your parents.

I get that. I get honoring and loving and taking care of your sister She's 28 years old She's gonna have Where's she gonna meet somebody Living in your I mean she's Nevermind

She's got to Take the reins and be an adult She has to Yeah and I feel like It's gonna help her grow up It's gonna help all those things It's gonna help all those things Yeah

But At the end of the day, here's the things you got to know. There is no move here that you're going to just feel wonderful and great. There's not. So you're going to have to decide what's the right thing for me in this situation?

What's the right thing for our marriage? What's the right thing for five years from now, ten years from now? Are we going to bring a kid into this mess? I also, it's going to sound crazy. I've got sympathy for your husband. He feels like he is trapped between Western world, between cultural obligations, between not wanting to blow things up, but his sister's husband just blew up. Everything just turns into a mess. And so at some point you've heard me say this once i'll say it a hundred times you got to turn all the lights on stop the music and say what are we doing where do i rank with you i am your wife i want our own space

i want us to be on the same page about how we're going to honor your parents and my parents how much money we're sending how much we talk to them i want to be on the same page about how we're going to honor your parents and my parents, how much money we're sending, how much we talk to them. I want to be on the same page with you. I want to speak into and have equal weight with how are we going to support your sister? How are we going to love your sister? I want to call the police because my sister got sexually assaulted. I want to go over to their house with you now and address this in person. We're not blowing up anything. He blew it up. It's already blown up.

We're showing up with the fire trucks. But it sounds like everything's just a mess. I'm trying to cover here. Flip on the lights and say, enough's enough's enough. Here's what I want you to do, Elsa. I want you to write this stuff down in order for yourself. And I want you to go have an honest, direct conversation. And you're going to have to have this in your back pocket, your or what? Because social stands are good. Marriage stands are great, but there has to be an or what? Because he may look at you and say, no, my sister is moving in here.

And if you don't like it, you leave. I am going to send 60% of our paycheck to my parents every month. If you don't like that, you leave. Have your or what? Have it in your heart. Have it ready. And make sure you've got people that you can talk to because it's a mess. And I know it's a mess.

Thank you so much for the call, Elsa. My heart's with you, man. I know this is tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough when we get caught between family and love and abuse and culture. It's hard, hard, hard. And if you're one of my listeners who hasn't had experiences with the rich Latin American culture, you should just shut up. There's a lot of history here. But I do think you, Elsa, are number one at that table. Period.

All right, as we wrap up today's show, we're going to go to James' second favorite song of all time. I didn't strike you as a Leanne Womack fan, but here we go. And James, I hope you dance too. That sounds like an insult. I hope you dance. You told me. That's country music insults, baby.

Song goes like this. I hope you never lose your sense of wonder. Well, no, that's actually a good song. You get your fill to eat, but always keep that hunger. That's not diabetes. May you never take one single breath for granted.

God forbid love ever leave you empty handed. I hope you still feel small when you stand by the ocean. Whenever one door closes, I hope one more opens. This is like a song of like a pillow saying, so like are crocheted into like bathrooms. Promise me that you'll give faith a fighting chance. And when you get the choice to sit out or dance I hope you dance

I literally just threw up in my mouth a little bit right here on the Dr. John Deloney Show