The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Is Visiting Dating Sites… Again

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

On today’s show, we hear about: - A wife wondering if her marriage is over after finding her husband on dating sites . . . again - A woman unsure of how to peacefully address problems in her relationship - A woman blindsided after her husband confessed past unfaithfulness To pre-order John's new book Building a Non-Anxious Life click here. Let us know what’s going on by leaving a voicemail at 844.693.3291 or visiting johndelony.com/show.  Support Our Sponsors: BetterHelp DreamCloud Hallow Thorne Add products to your cart create an account at checkout Receive 25% off ALL orders Resources: Anxiety Test Own Your Past, Change Your Future Questions for Humans Conversation Cards Redefining Anxiety Quick Read John’s Free Guided Meditation Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download at: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq These platforms contain content, including information provided by guests, that is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. The content is not intended to replace or substitute for any professional medical, counseling, therapeutic, financial, legal, or other advice. The Lampo Group, LLC d/b/a Ramsey Solutions as well as its affiliates and subsidiaries (including their respective employees, agents and representatives) make no representations or warranties concerning the content and expressly disclaim any and all liability concerning the content including any treatment or action taken by any person following the information offered or provided within or through this show. If you have specific concerns or a situation in which you require professional advice, you should consult with an appropriately trained and qualified professional expert and specialist. If you are having a health or mental health emergency, please call 9-1-1 immediately. Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policyb

Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. So I went on his computer and I saw that he was on a dating site. Yeah, so I catfished him. No way. Did he fall for it? Oh, he sure did. Oh, this is my favorite call ever. Ever. What in the world is going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney show.

Show about your mental health, your emotional health, what's going on inside your house, what's going on inside your heart and your mind and your head. Ridiculous decisions you're making or awful traumatic situations where you find yourself. Whatever's going on in your life, my promise is I'll sit with you and we'll figure it out. And we get countless, I can't even,

thousands of letters and emails and calls from all over the planet. And we pick three of them a show, sometimes four, sometimes two. And we reach out and we talk to real people going through real stuff. And so if you want to be on the show, shoot me an email, John Deloney,

J-O-H-N-D-E-L-O-N-Y, johndeloney.com slash ask, A-S-K, or give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291, leave a message and we will holler back girl at you. I ain't no holler back girl. And don't forget, Building a Non-Anxious Life, still in presale. 20 bucks, plus a whole bunch of other free stuff. And I think we just kicked back up the autograph book.

When does this go out, Jenna? September 29th. So only a few days until this book is out. That's right. If you're listening right now, the book comes out October 3rd and then you're going to have to pay whatever,

wherever you get it, but you lose all the free cool stuff. So pick it up right now. JohnDeloney.com. Help a brother out. All right, let's go to Atlanta, home of the most absurd airport on planet Earth

and talk to Janelle. What's up, Janelle? Hey, Dr. John. What's up janelle hey dr john what's up how we doing i'm doing okay i have to remind myself to breathe i'm so nervous why why are you nervous i'm not great at this you know i'm talking no you're awesome because i'm talking to you and i'm like okay so it's like millions of people probably listening and I'm like oh my god I'm so nervous Janelle I make up all those numbers there's like 38 listeners no you don't max uh thank you thank you so much for taking my call I really appreciate it I listen to your show all the time you've helped me with so many things that have been going through my head and um I just want to say thank you. And it's such an

honor to get to talk to you. It's an honor to talk to you. I'm really grateful. By the way, while I've got you, please do whatever you can. Run for public office. Do whatever you can. Fix the airport. What are we doing? Oh, I'm working on it. I barely fly out of here. It's so ridiculous. By the time you walk from the front gate to your like gate you could have driven like all the way to nebraska anyway that's a whole different conversation what is that's a whole different conversation that's not what you call for all right so like hit me with it what's up okay so um i'm gonna give you the backstory and then i'll ask my question it'll all tie it in so bear with me. So my husband and I,

we've been married for 12 years. We have two kids. We got married pretty quickly. It was a pretty brief courtship. So a lot of things you would find out about your partner before you get married, we kind of found out after we were already married. So it was kind of rough. Awesome. For a couple of years. You said that so eloquently. Some of the things you found out beforehand, we found out after. We found out afterwards. But I know what that probably means

and the way you said that so gently. So you're a delight. Okay, keep going. It's been 12 years. Trust me, I get it right out. So our main problem or my main issue has been with infidelity with him, mostly just internet issues and texting and messaging and Facebook and Instagram and so forth. times, three, four times on and off. He's also done individual counseling a couple of times, and then things seem to be pretty good for a while, a few years, and then, you know, things happen and we kind of end up back here. So a few months ago, he started acting a little

bit differently, going out more, staying out a little bit longer, very protective with his phone and accusing me of cheating. So the light bulb kind of went off, and I was like, okay, something's going on here. So about a couple weeks ago, I decided to do some investigation. So I went on his computer, and I saw that he was on a dating site.

Ooh. Yeah. So I catfished him. No way. I sure, yeah way. You did? Did he fall for it? Oh, he sure did. Oh, this is my

favorite call ever, ever. Hey, can we call him right now and I'm going to pretend to be the husband of the person? Please, please. Oh my gosh. The thing was i knew it was probably going to happen because i know my husband has been 12 years so um um i created a fake profile i was messaging him he was all for it oh you're the worst and incredible all at the same time dinner and lunch and um he was saying he was divorced.

He did say he had two kids, though, so at least that was something. So then I started. I was going along with it, and I was going to meet up with him. Yeah. I was going to say, make a date with him, man, and record it, and we'll put it on the show. But this is what happened. I kept looking, and I came across two credit card receipts, and I saw, like, two hotel receipts. Ah, yeah. Not funny anymore.

Not funny anymore. Yeah. Then I kind of lost it. Yeah. Not funny anymore. And I confronted him, and he lied and said the first one that was in our city he got it for a friend don't buy it and the other one that was not in our city it was when he went out of town to visit family and he said he didn't want to stay

at their house so he got a hotel I didn't buy that either. Cause he could have just told me about it. He didn't, he had me thinking he was staying at his family's house and he wasn't. So I didn't buy any of that. Um, so my husband has a tendency. So the counseling we've been going through over the years, we've kind of figured out and he'll admit that he has an issue with attention and validation. And it's like, when I'm not... Hold on, hold on, Janelle. Janelle, Janelle, Janelle. Your husband cheats on you.

Period. Period. I have problems with validation. I don't get meet women in hotel rooms across the country. Yeah, I know. I like to... For my wife to tell me nice things. I like for my wife to tell me she's proud of me. I like to fill for my wife to tell me nice things.

I like for my wife to tell me she's proud of me. I like to fill in the blank. Yeah, you're right. So you can go to counseling and learn all these neat things and all that kind of stuff. All of that is a complete and utter wash. It means nothing if your husband is meeting other women in hotel rooms across the United States and then lying to you about it. Period. I mean, just period. End of discussion. And here's what I think is unfortunate is that you are so kind and you are so, there's something inside of you that has told you that you don't have equal value to him that you have come up with some really complicated narrative as to why this is

mostly your fault and i'm telling you as a husband that is not a true story that you tell yourself. You are married to a serial cheater. Period. Yeah. Yeah. He's a guy who steps out on his wife repeatedly, and I've said on this show, I'll say it again, I have a ton of sympathy for a business trip one night stand.

I have a ton of sympathy for I met somebody. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying if somebody sits down and goes, dude, this thing happened, things happen. Or I was working on a project with somebody for a year at work and I just fell head over heels. I get that. This is persistent and ongoing. He's spitting in his wife's face, telling her she's stupid. You're so dumb. You can't even find out. And when you're looking at receipts, he's like, you're an idiot. And you, for some reason, Janelle believe, yeah, you're probably right. Even as you described, you know, listening to you, even as you described the story about him

going to see family, but staying in a hotel when i promise you when he was there he was telling you that i'm at mama's house and she's whatever you the way you told that story if you go back and listen you don't fully you're not 100 that you're right you're about 85 i'm telling you you're percent right yeah i know and you probably don't want to be a statistic you probably have done whatever you could do for the last decade to keep his family together and you're married to someone who's doing everything he can to unwind it true or false yeah you're right. You are right. And I've got like a knot in my stomach talking to you right now.

You're right. Like I'm sick right now. Did you tell him that you were catfishing him? Did you tell him? Or does he even know that yet? Yeah, yeah, he knows. Um, when I confronted him,

it all came out. Um, he knew. Then he apologized and, you know, acting remorseful and saying he wasn't going to go and yada, yada, yada,

which is a lie. He was going to meet up. Of course, that's a lie. So the real question is less about him. The question is about you. Is my marriage fixable? I think any marriage is fixable, quite honestly.

Right. But you can't fix it alone. Period. And quite honestly, you've tried for 10 years. You have to have a man that will tell you the truth. You have to have a man that will tell you I'm sorry. And you have to have a man that will not end up in a hotel room with a bunch of other women he's not married to. Are you perfect in this marriage?

No. I don't even know. And I'm telling you no. Of course you're not. No. Right. Of course you're not. No, right. And has he weaponized any imperfection to give him liberty and license to do whatever he wants to? Yeah, absolutely. And you're worth more than that.

And so are those two little kids. Let me say it this way. I'm going to take back my answer. Ask me your question again. Is my marriage fixable? I will answer it this way. No. Your marriage as it was is over.

Can you and your husband build something completely new? Yes. Have you heard my twin towers analogy? Oh, yeah. I have. Same thing. What y'all had is over. Those towers have fallen down.

They are in rubble and in ash and smoke and there's dust everywhere The choice you have to make and I think right now it's it's the initial choice is you alone Are you going to walk away? from the towers And let nature take them back Or and let nature take them back? Or are you going to sit down with him and say, from this point forward, we build something new, and here's my stipulations.

Here's what I need to move forward. And then you'll go get some professionals to help you rebuild something completely new. And that might mean new jobs. That might mean moving. That might mean everything is different because everything is different. All right.

I mean, you see what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, I do. My guess is you've had some dark moments like where you're just sitting in the shower when you're finally by yourself, and you weep so hard you can't catch your breath. Fair? Yeah, that's fair. That is so true. I'm just wondering why me, why this? What is it that I did? You can't. Your husband made some bad choices over and over and over and over and over again.

And at this point, if I'm being super frank, I'm worried about your health and safety. I'm worried about him bringing something home from some woman that you don't know about or multiple women that you don't know about. Right. And I'm as concerned for your safety right this second as I am for your marriage. I am too. I said we have to definitely go get tested because I don't feel safe. Janelle, sweetheart, where does this come from?

Who taught you that what you feel in your guts is so wrong? Because you've known he was cheating on you for a long time. I knew. And even the way you just said just now, like, yeah, I told him about there's an uncertainty instead of a proclamation at your front door. You don't come in this home until you go get tested, period. And you hand me the results.

Like, who told you that, that you're worth so little, that what you feel and what you think and what you need is of secondary importance. Again, it didn't help that I see myself in my parents' relationship, where they're still together. But, I mean, my dad practically cheered on my mom the entire 45 years they've been married. So it's what your body knows, right? Yeah, yeah. Except the rules have changed and the game has changed.

And Janelle, my friend Janelle, is not going to take this crap anymore. Here's why. Because your two kids aren't going to repeat this thing. Right. They're going to have a very clear picture in their head of what either a strong boundary and self-worth looks like. And a single mom who cannot be stopped come hell or high water. Or they're going to have a ringside seat to a couple fight and scratch and claw their way to something so remarkable and strong and beautiful moving forward but they're not going to learn this is what marriage looks like yeah you're right fair

fair you're absolutely right now this is the part of the story where like in the movie when the music swells and then like the montage scene happens this isn't but that's not reality reality is this do you work not right now um i got laid off a couple months ago and i'm looking for for work now okay this kind of self-proclamation has very real economic consequences right it sounds easy for me sitting in nashville tennessee with a with a good job to say you should just and that's why i'm not going to do that i'm not going to tell you to run out today because there's a real question of where do you go and how do you feed your kids how do you eat right right that's a very real thing and you know as well as i do the court processes are

so jacked up it takes so freaking long to get anything done. Right. And so I would, here's my, I mean, I just love talking to you. You're funny. You're like, you have such a great personality. Thank you, Dr. John. And I'm heartbroken in my guts for you. Yeah. And I don't think I've told you anything

you didn't already know. I'm heartbroken in my guts because I've sat with women as they've walked what the next two years of your life is going to be and it's not going to be pleasant. And staying in this is not going to be pleasant. You're right.

And so the path you have to choose is not one of ease and least resistance and one of really hard you have two incredibly difficult paths ahead of you and so I always want someone to choose the difficult path that's going to lead to freedom

not lead to repeating a cycle of abuse and you're just going to take it and this is just the way things are over and over again and dude I'd love to talk to. And this is just the way things are over and over again. Dude, I'd love to talk to your husband if he wants to call me. He won't, he won't, but I'd love to. He probably won't. He won't. Oh, I know he won't. He won't. Here's, I think your next steps are number one, I'd go get a counselor today.

In fact, I'll hook you up with three months of free BetterHelp. If you don't have a counselor in your area, stay on the line here, and we'll get you a code. And you can call somebody and be on the phone or talking to them via Zoom within the next 24 hours. And here's what we're talking about. You need to get somebody, and I want you to be very specific when you ask, I need a game plan to begin to identify my next steps. I've been married to somebody for a decade who cheats on me and cheats on me and cheats on me. And now he's spending money out of our family account. Now he's increased an uptick in lying. He's now traveling distances and I need to figure out what my next steps are. And what they'll do is they'll help you think

through boundaries. Think through, do you have a mom or dad's house you can go stay at for six months with the kids? Do you have an attorney? Do you have some of those hard questions you're going to have to face? Also, here's a testing site. I mean, they're going to walk you through all those questions. The second thing is I want you to get a couple of girlfriends. Do you have two or three women in your life that you trust a lot? I do.

I want you to take them out to coffee sometime this week. I don't want you to tell them the truth because you have never told them, have you? No. It's time. You need some real people in your corner, in your local community that knows the truth about what you're experiencing and dealing with. Wow. And this is part of the rising. This is when Janelle begins to come out of the water on her own two feet. And this is my life. I'm not doing this anymore.

Tell me why that scares you to death. Because I'm going to have to come out of my yes it's everything's okay shell yeah yep you have created the most beautiful it's all great and I'm hilarious facade yeah you're so good you're so good yeah that is yeah you're you I was gonna say you have no idea but you probably do because You're so good. Yeah. That is, you have, you have, you, I was going to say you have no idea,

but you probably do. Cause we're the couple that everyone looks at. Oh my God, you guys are so perfect and it's all great. And all that. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're going to lose your identity.

The identity as the perfect married woman. And we're going to change that identity for the woman who tells the truth. And the woman who is stronger than iron. You're right. Over the years, I've just gotten less. So the more it's happened, it's just the braver and braver I'm getting as far as I need to leave. I need to leave. I need to leave. Yeah, but it's very, very, very hard to leave by yourself.

It is. It is. That's why I want you to talk to these three women. And there's something surreal about saying it out loud. Even you started this call with me like, well, and this is going on and he's got some needs so bad that i i mean i feel bad i interrupted you i would love for you to sit down with these three women over coffee or tea or whatever y'all you'd like to drink and sit down and go my husband's been cheating on me for a decade and now he's moved on to multiple women in multiple

cities and it ends now and their jaws will hit the floor and you can smile and say, I didn't mean to drop it on you like that, but I for sure meant to drop it on you like that. I need your help. And there's something empowering about it because you don't want to say it out loud because you don't want it to be true. And I love you enough to tell you it is true. Yeah. You're the, this is the first time I've actually said it I know I can hear it on you. I know I know Do you trust me that there is I know there's nothing easy that comes next nothing But you have a great picture of your mom that hollowed out shell Yeah, that hollowed out shell.

Yeah. That distant look. That dad who walks in and out of that house like he owns planet Earth. Yes. That's you. That's the trajectory. And that's if your husband chooses not just to bail or doesn't get somebody pregnant. I'd call those women ASAP.

Like I'd call them today or shoot them a text message and say, we need to meet tomorrow morning for breakfast. We need to talk. Gosh, I'm sick to my guts. I hate this for you. I hate this for you. I hate this for you When this call first started out, I thought we were gonna have some fun in the catfishing thing and this got real real real fast Here's the deal janelle, um, hang on the line we're gonna hook you up with that counseling and i'll be here every step of the way and um We're going to hook you up with that counseling, and I'll be here every step of the way. And you've got Jenna's contact info.

I want you to reach out anytime you want to be back on the show, you want to talk. I got you, okay? Man, what a mess. Somebody threw a grenade in the middle of your home, and it was not you. But what comes next is going to be largely what you decide. Not by your hand, but in your lap. And here we are, and here we go. You didn't cause it,

but you're part of the cleanup crew, and you're part of the what's next crew. And I'll be here with you. We'll be right back. Hey, good folks, let's talk about hallow. All right, I say this all the time. It's important to get away for times of prayer and meditation by yourself with no one else around.

But one thing you might not think about though is maintaining a sense of community when you pray or meditate. And this is especially if you don't consider yourself religious, if you question things, or if you've been burned by a church experience in the past, it's hard to want to get together with other people. And that's another reason why I love

Hallow. You can personalize your prayer experience with Hallow, and they give you three free months to do it. You can pray or meditate by yourself, or you can connect with friends, with family, a prayer group, or some other community that you choose. And this way you can share prayers, share meditations. You can even share journal reflections to grow in your faith together with others. And with Hallow, there are other ways you can personalize the app.

They have downloadable offline sessions and links ranging from one minute up to an hour. And you can listen where it works for your schedule. You can choose your guide, your background music. You can create your own personal prayer plan and more. I've made it a personal point to begin my day every single day with the hallow meditation on the scripture of the day. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And here's what I'm learning. As with anything of importance and meaning, prayer takes intentionality, practice, and showing up even when I don't feel like it and even I don't want to.

This is discipline. Sometimes you do this by yourself and sometimes you do this with a group and Halo helps you with both. Download the number one prayer app on planet earth, Halo, right now. And listen, viewers and listeners of this show get three free months when you go to halo.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go hallow.com slash Deloney. It's amazing. Three free months of the app when you go to hallow.com slash Deloney. Go right now and change your life. All right, let's go about north and talk to Bailey in Toronto. What's up, Bailey?

Hey, Dr. John, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. Of course. I tried my best about, but it sounded terrible. Can you give me one? A? There we go. Perfect.

What's up? How can I help? So this is my question. In my relationship, why do I feel like I have to get mad for any change to occur? I feel like this speaks more about me than him. Like I am not confident enough to speak up before things escalate. Why do we wait for emotions to boil over to talk about issues, things change? How do we learn to voice our needs before things get out of control? How do we create a relationship where both parties feel safe to be vulnerable about their needs want more

specifically what are some tools i need awesome i got 117 questions let's go all right let's do it what tools that you need for what to learn to regulate my emotions okay and how do i learn to respond instead of react and then how can I work on my delivery? Okay. So it's a lot. It's a lot. Well, it's a lot, but it's just,

it's two simple sides of a coin. Okay. And usually, if you ever listen to the show very much, you hear me talk about the dance that couples get into. My guess is it's one of two things. Number one, you feel so uncomfortable saying what you

need. I don't like this in bed when you do this. I need you to be home between five 30 and six because I make dinner and our kids need to go to bed. I don't like it when your mom calls and starts telling me what to do or whatever. And it's so hard for you to say those things that you almost have to, not almost, you do, you have to boil the water so hot that the steam pushes the lid off the top. That's one avenue. The other avenue is you constantly, constantly tell your husband what you need, what you want, what you like, and he doesn't give a crap. And the only way he will do anything is if you run up and grab him by the ears and shake his head real and yell real loud. And maybe a little bit of both.

So if I put those two on the table, which one feels more natural? I feel like I have to boil over and get angry. I think it's like an attention thing. It's like, I don't want to be labeled the needy wife or girlfriend. So if I get mad, then he'll pay attention to me. What if you switched it and gave him the keys to the kingdom? Like somebody told you that your needs made you annoying.

For most men that I talk to, they dream of their girlfriends or their wives telling them what they need so that they can love them better. They don't know how. Okay. But somebody told you needs were you being a whiny, like annoying girlfriend or a whiny, annoying wife.

Instead of needs being a really clear roadmap for how your husband can love you really amazingly right now. Okay. That's reframing it for sure. So give me an example of something you don't like to say. Or when's it, let me say this. You called because of something. Do you get really mad and then you got frustrated with yourself for getting so mad? Well, it's because I wait until I'm frustrated about something. Why?

Whether it be, like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just, like. What's the last time you were frustrated? Like, over the weekend. But this is simple stuff. Like, I get frustrated because in our day to day, I don't have enough time to walk the dog, do my exercise, see my family, meal prep. You know what

I mean? Like, it's just frustrating that we don't have enough time to do these normal things. So then you've created a picture all by yourself of what normal is, of what quote unquote supposed to do looks like. Oh, well, that's what I would like to get done in a day. Okay. Mm-hmm. Where does that picture come from? Just like my routine. And what's that routine keep you safe from?

That's a good question. You lean on that routine like people i've sat with lean on cocaine because without that list you feel untethered and that your world is going to unspool underneath you yes i do like productivity and accomplishments but you don't like productivity and accomplishments for the sake of productivity and accomplishments you like productivity and accomplishments for the sake of productivity and accomplishments. You like productivity and accomplishments because it keeps you from having to feel. Why?

Oh my gosh, I don't know. Most of the time it distills all the way down into two things. Either I don't like the life I've created for myself or more terrifyingly, I don't like me. Yeah, I mean, there's some insecurity for sure. That's fair. Why are you insecure with the guy that looked you in the eye and said, until the end of time and beyond, I do? I'm confident with his loyalty.

But you're not confident with his love. Why? Because he didn't stand up for me on an occasion. We had a grenade thrown into our living room. And now it was a terrible position for a father to put a son in. I can go in the background if you want. Here's what's instruct. So your father-in-law said something awful about you

and he didn't stick up for you? The father-in-law moved in and then my significant other was like working away from home. So it was just me and the father-in-law and we weren't getting along and I ended up leaving the house. And yes, like my partner never stuck up for me. So I've just, again, I put that GPS pin in, like my body is unsafe here. Like it's just hard to trust again.

It is. Even though he's kept showing up. I know. I'm just wary. But that means you've held, you're holding on to that. Did he apologize? Yeah, no. Sort of. Okay, then no.

Then he hasn't. And so, you see what I mean? There's the dance that happens. You're mad at him about something that happened a long time ago. And he, in his mind, thinks that he solved that. Yeah. And would probably be shocked if he knew that that was still lingering.

That was still on his kitchen table this morning or this weekend. And you are confident in his loyalty, but you are not confident that he'll show up for you or that he'll love you. And so you can see that you are walking through your own life with no foundation. You'd never know where the next step's gonna go because you hang on to these things.

Or you don't hang on to them in a negative way. You don't deal with them. And so my question for you would be, what would it look like tonight to take him to dinner and say i'm going to tell you something's kind of nuts But i'm still can find myself so mad about that thing that happened with your dad And I feel like you never apologized for me and I know it sounds bananas, but I still hang on to that And it's hard for me to trust you that you'll be there for me again. What if you did that in a non angry, non raged out, non whiny complaining way, but just a,

I'm freaking Bailey and I'm allowed to have feelings and this is what they are right now. What would that be like? I think that would be a good allowed to have feelings, and this is what they are right now. What would that be like? I think that would be a good conversation to have. Why couldn't you do that? Well, we both work for a utility, and we both work on the road, so we're away from each other during the week, and then only see each other on weekends. But we could talk over the phone. It's not a big deal.

No, don't do it over the phone. It's got to be in person. It's got to be in person. Yeah. But we have talked about it. And I don't know. Again, it's like the tools. I don't have the tools.

How do I get over this? You know, do you just do it? Do you just forget about it? No. You look at somebody, If he reaches across the table and grabs your hands And says, listen, I let you down I'm so sorry, it will never happen again And then you say, thank you

I'm really grateful And then if that moment, if you choose I'm going to choose to believe you I'm going to choose to trust Then from that point forward Every time that story pops into your head You literally say out loud Nope, not doing that choose to believe you. I'm going to choose to trust. Then from that point forward, every time that story pops into your head, you literally say out loud, nope, not doing that. But you don't because you replay those stories because they make you feel powerful and they make you feel right.

And they make you feel like you are the one done the injustice. Right. And then your identity over time becomes the worst things that ever happened to you and that's a miserable place to build an identity right yes and so you find yourself getting mad all the time because you don't like the guy that you're with and then you find yourself getting mad all the time because you don't like the fact that you've stayed with a guy that you don't like. I do like him.

I know. He is a good man. Except for the fact that... I want to get over this stuff. But I don't think you do yet. Or let me say it this way. Okay. You want to want to get over it.

But it provides you something. What is it giving you? What is it giving you? What's it giving you? It's giving me nothing because it's giving me like anger, which then I yell at him and then he shuts down. And then that's why. What does anger give you? No, this phone call.

What does anger give you? It gives me the attention for like a brief moment. It gives you power. But nothing gets accomplished. It gives you power. Oh, oh, okay. It gives you power oh oh okay it gives you right and somewhere along the way power became a thing that made your body the thing that made your body be able to stand up a little

bit taller and what most relationships need is less power and more taking a knee i love you enough to tell you what i need i love me me to tell you enough, like what I need. And then I'm going to fight and scratch and claw with my body as it tries to send signals again. Oh, remember last time? Oh, remember last time? Nope, not doing that anymore. I'm going to lean in closer. Here's a good example.

Like this is kind of putting my dirty laundry out there. But my wife, I got frustrated with something yesterday. I caught myself and I went outside. And by the way, I was acting like a baby also don't think this is anything great and noble. I went outside and I got the armor all in a rag and I cleaned my wife's car and I threw away all the trash and she's got two kids that she's traveling. I mean, our two kids that she travels all over the place with, it was full of all kinds. I cleaned the car and then I took it and went and picked my son up. And then we went and got her gas and I intentionally got the expensive gas. I don't

even know why. It just made me feel like I'm giving her the best I can so that she came in today, got out in her car and it was clean. It was all armored up and it was full of gas for the week. And by the time I got done, my little hissy fit, whiny babiness was completely gone. And it's because I took a knee. I chose service instead of power. I chose service instead of being right. And I couldn't think my way there. I had to go act. I had to go do something nice.

See what I'm saying? Like you had to make a choice. I don't want to carry this crap anymore. But that is going to leave you feeling exposed, as exposed as the day you left that house because your husband wouldn't intervene with his dad. And that's the path. Okay. You're like, wow, that sucks.

No, I mean, I just, it's like, what are practical actions in the moment, right? In the moment, walk away. Walk away. Oh, okay. In the moment or before the moment. By the way, if you get to the moment, it's too late. Yeah. So you all come up with a hand sign or some sort of phrase, a safe word, if you will.

And when you find yourself getting enraged, you say, take five and you walk away. And if y'all have gone to lunch or breakfast and on a Saturday morning, when you're actually together and you say, I'm trying to break this habit of getting mad. And every time I feel like I need to tell you my needs, I remember this, all this stuff from our past. And so I just get angry and I'm trying to stop that. So in the heat of the moment, I'm going to raise my hand and just like do a number, like make a five or I'm going to fist bump you. And when I do that,

don't take that as rejection. Take that as me getting overwhelmed and me taking control back over my emotions. Also journaling every single day of your life. That sounds all woo-woo, but what it serves is a pressure release valve. You let it build and you let it build, you let it build and then you explode.

The third thing is, is a weekly, every Sunday night or Saturday night, y'all have 15 or 20 minutes to go over calendar, go over your budget and look each other in the eye and say, how can I love you this week? And if you do those, all these things up river, then when something blows up, it's not there to come out. Does that make sense?

Yes. You're like, yeah, I've asked for check-ins. I've asked for check-ins. I've asked for check-ins. And you're not getting them? And I've gotten away... I mean... Well, we're starting. We're working on it.

The journaling, I've gotten away from, and I want to start again. And... Okay, Bailey, when you listen to this callback, I want you to pay attention to one important thing. You have completely divorced yourself from yourself. Journaling didn't just escape from you. You quit doing it.

Yeah, that's right. Being angry every time you feel like you need to say something, isn't your body, isn't like a demon landing on your shoulder. You get mad and you feel powerful in that anger and you keep it for a second. You ask your husband for something and he just looks at you and goes, I'm not doing that. And you have to live in that guilt and in that grief that your partner won't join you in something that you have said is important. Right. You have to get back to,

I own how I feel. I own the things that I do. And I'm not going to outsource these to other people. And for everybody listening, if you wait until the moment to come up with an anger exercise, you're just way too late. Way too late.

Anger points us in the direction of something we care about. And my guess, Bailey, is that you care so much about this marriage and there's probably, just because I've done this a long time, I may be wrong, there's probably some stuff that is on the table

that is deeper seated here with you and your husband. There's conversations that you need to have that you haven't had yet? Maybe it's about work. Maybe it's about fidelity. Maybe it's about your romantic relationship. Maybe it's about kids. Maybe it's about any number of things.

Maybe it's about all the way back to that situation with his family. When it came down to it, you weren't there for me. Maybe that's it. But your body is telling you every time you need something, he's not going to be there. And that's where you got to address it. The anger is your body trying to get your attention. And that's a good thing. So trying to duct tape over that is not helpful. Going way upstream so that you get the things that your body needs, like connection,

like connectivity, like being on the same page, like a unified purpose, like romance and intimacy, all those things upstream so that financial security, so that when you need to say your needs out loud, you just say your needs out loud. But that's ownership of your actions. That's ownership of what comes next.

That's you writing down in a journal, here's what I need. And I'm just going to practice it. And when I feel myself getting mad, stop, I'm going to take a break because I'm getting mad. You're not doing anything. I'm choosing to get mad.

My body's choosing anger. And I don't know why, but it is. And so I'm going to take a break until I come back. And then we'll start over again. We'll start over again. You got to practice it. But anybody telling you on the internet

some sort of snake oil salesman selling you, this is the five steps to feel stupid. It's dumb. You're talking about reimagining your marriage. And get as far up river as you can. You can do it. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. October is the season for wearing costumes. And if you haven't started planning your costume, seriously, get on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go as Brad Pitt because we have the same upper body, but whatever. Look, it's costume season. And if we're being honest, a lot of us hide our true selves behind masks and costumes more often than we want to. We do this at work. We do this in social settings. We do this around our own families.

We even do this with ourselves. I have been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding your true self behind costumes and masks, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can learn to accept all the parts of yourself, where you can be honest with yourself, and where you can take off the mask and the costumes and learn to live

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All right, we're back. Let's go out to North Carolina and talk to the great and wonderful Jackie. What's up, Jackie? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for having me. Of the great and wonderful Jackie. What's up, Jackie? Hi, Dr. John. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up?

Yeah. So my husband and I, we have been married 19 years, high school sweethearts. We have five kids together. But last week, he revealed to me that about 15 years ago when he was in the military, that he had cheated on me numerous times during his first two deployments overseas. Thinking back to that time, I mean, we were having issues and someone had actually came to me and said that he had cheated on me. I confronted him then about it and he looked me dead in the eye and was like, no, that's not true. Um, and I believed him, you know, because I, I thought I knew him. I thought he was a man of integrity and, um, but yeah, so I'm, I feel like I'm at a crossroads. I can either choose to leave and I know what that looks like. Um, or I can choose to forgive him and, you know, try to rebuild.

And that's, I don't know what that looks like. I don't, if that's something I do choose, I don't know how to do that. Oh, man. I'm sorry this happened. Yeah, thank you it's like buying a house and you realize 15 years later they didn't put in a sewer pipe or something right

that's just been going in the backyard yeah I feel I feel deceived for so many years that's not a feeling that's a fact that happened and then if you're like me I'm wondering well what else did you not tell me you know, so many years. That's not a feeling. That's a fact that happened. Yeah. You were. Right. And then if you're like me, I'm wondering, well, what else did you not tell me?

Exactly. Yes. And I did ask him that I was, you know, is there anything else that you need to tell me? Like, this is the time to get it all out. That's like, you're asking a liar to tell you the truth now, right? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Of course he said, no, no, no, not at all. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'm very remorseful about it. Um, but that doesn't, you know, change the fact that I'm hurt and betrayed. And I just feel like our whole majority of our marriage is a lie. Like none of it was real. And that I think is something to be careful of because that's not true. Okay.

Okay. The picture you had is different. Right. But he did show up when your mom got sick. Okay. He did come to the hospital five times. Right. Right.

He did fill in the blank. So those things are all true and they're all real. And so burning the whole thing to the ground everything's a lie. It's not. Those things actually happened because you were there and you saw it. You witnessed it. And he did look you dead in the eye and say, I promise

you. And he lied. Both are true. And so kind of like I think there's gonna be a lot of both hands moving forward and your temptation is gonna be to go to absolutes there's a ton of both hands moving forward okay so this i i i don't have i don't have an easy answer for you, okay? This came up a lot in 2018 and 2019. Okay. When the Me Too stuff happened.

And people who were married had two or three kids together, loved their husband. He was a great husband. He did all the right things. And then it was like, wait a minute, back in college, that was sexual assault. Right. Or you raped me back. Like you got me all drunk and wait a minute. Right. And so there was this, all of a sudden this, this thing dropped in the middle of people's homes, which is who you are right this second.

And my God, you would have gone to jail if you had done what you did back then now, right? And I don't know that there's another path other than this. And if anyone's got some wisdom, reach out to me on Instagram. You can just DM me if you're a therapist and you've got a different path. But you have a choice to make.

And it's very binary. I leave or I stay. I leave. I'm a single mom with five kids. And we figure out what that looks like. Right. I stay. Everything is new. that's it and if i stay i am making the choice to work as hard as bloody hell as i can

to incorporate that not forget it you can never forget it but to incorporate what happened into our marriage and move forward because if you choose to stay and choose to put that in that arrow in your quiver to shoot him whenever he's late to something or whatever he whatever then the whole thing burns down right yeah that's i definitely don't want to yeah participate in that or you know be passive aggressive towards him or, you know, constantly throw it in his face when he does something, you know, wrong. Can I tell you what I'm hearing on you? And you can tell me if I'm crazy. Okay. I hear that you want to stay, but you want to want to leave. Yes. I've always, I've, I've always been that, that person that was like, I would never, if, you know, if my husband ever cheated on me, that would be it. I would walk away.

And now, if he were to do this last week, if he would have cheated on me last week or a month ago, I feel like it would be so much easier to walk away. You'd be in the same spot you're in right now. Yeah. It's so cool to be so tough. It's like the person without kids are like, if I had kids, oh, you don't know. Right? I mean, we all have these proclamations till they happen. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. That's exactly what it was. A proclamation. And so I want you to trust Jackie, not this macho image of Jackie that you were projecting to the world. Okay. And you're going to probably vacillate and there's going to be days that you really wake up and the sun is shining and you're

making breakfast and he comes in and you lean in and there's going to be times you pick up a dirty shirt and you overcome with rage, right? Okay. Right. Yeah. There's going to be days you want to sit down across the table and say, I want to hear about every single girl, what she looked like, what her name was, where y'all were. There's going to be- No, I don't want that.

Yeah. Not yet. I definitely don't want that. That day will come. Not yet, but I promise you it'll come. And there's going to be days when you just want to say, hey, that was 15 years ago. We're different. We got five kids. We have our home here in years ago. We're different. We got five kids.

We have our home here in the States. We're moving on. And the challenge is, is going to be sitting down with an architect, in your case, a marriage counselor, and y'all designing and building what's going to come. Because your marriage as you knew it is over. Right, right. And you have to decide, are we going to build something new? And by the way, he has to be in and on it too. Yeah, no, he's fully committed. I mean,

he thinks he is right. Yeah. How can I trust that? I don't know. He just rolled the stone away and the dragon just came out. So he thinks he's all in. He doesn't fully know yet. What brought this out? What brought the story? So we've just been like just sharing things with each other, just kind of like self-reflecting. And, you know, we had some really bad times kind of early on in our marriage and just talking about like how we got over that. And, you know um drinking was involved on his part and um i had shared that i had felt like maybe he did something because i always felt like when we were around

people there were whispers i felt like they were they were talking about me oh so some of his some of his combat buddies knew yeah oh yeah for sure So, and nobody told me, well, I mean, one person did, but they weren't close. So I, you know, just kind of took them at face value. And do you see that, that, that, that's where you're going to have to go because that's not just betrayal 15 years ago. Yeah. That is, you made me the laughing stock. Right. Oh yeah. No, I told him how foolish I must have looked. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. And there's that other voice that was like, oh, my gosh. It was 15 years ago. Yeah. You know who I was 15 years ago?

An idiot. Yeah, exactly. We were definitely different people then. I mean, that doesn't excuse the fact. No, it doesn't excuse anything. You know, but we were, you know, we were different people then. We've definitely grown and matured together. But, yeah, it still hurts a lot.

Yeah. So, I guess the best I could tell you is this. I would make a decision, and it sounds like I know what your decision is, but I would make a decision that I'm at least interested in meeting with an architect or not. Okay. If you're done, you're done.

If you're out, you're out. Right. I don't hear that on you at all no no i don't think so i don't think so okay you have to get let jackie off the hook jackie is not weak jackie is not a coward jackie is not a wimp jackie is not a pushover for staying jackie's very strong. Yeah. And that's something I've always kind of prided myself on is, you know,

I'm strong. I'm independent, especially, you know, when he was in the military and he was gone, you know, I was holding things down. And you know how much infidelity runs in,

in those circles and you weren't going to be that woman. Here we are. Yeah. Yeah. So in the same way that you were trying to work through the man he was 15 years ago, also work through this imaginary pseudo-Wonder Woman that you'd created that wasn't real. It's in the past. Let that ride.

This is Jackie right now facing reality. I've got five kids. I love this man. I love who he has become. I love the husband he is. And God, I want to kill him for what he did 15 years ago. And for the subsequent lie that, that rippled through our marriage for the last 20 years. Right. Yeah. Both are true. Okay. Yeah. And I, I, sometimes speaking is very hard.

And I, I, it can be a moral issue. It can be a cowardice issue, whatever. I tend to think of it as a tools issue. And that's probably me being soft on people, but such it is.

Um, he may not know or have the ability to sit in a room and hurt somebody like he hurt you again. But he might be able to write it down. Okay. And so I would ask him, I want you to spend some time writing out, preference be handwritten,

but you can type it if you'd like. Anything else I need to know? Because you embarrassed me. Yeah, for sure. And you broke my heart. Yeah. And I know it's not, but it feels like my entire life is built on a lie.

And so I need you to write out for me, type it out for me. What else do I need to know? If anything else, any other cheating, any other office romances, any other shirtless photos you sent to somebody, I need to know every bit of it and write it out. And then write me the letter and I'm going to read it.

And I'm going to decide what's next. Okay. And I'm kind of 50, 50 right now if I'm super honest with you. Okay. I've got buddies in the military and I've worked with enough folks in the military that things happen overseas. Then people come back and it's, it's a hard toggle because I'm not there. Right.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. No excuses, but. Right. And the other 50% is that's just people who cheat or people who cheat. Right, yeah, yeah.

You're either a cheater or not. Right. Okay, yeah, sounds like I've got, yeah. And then if you read that letter and you say, I've made an appointment, you need to be there. And we're going to go figure it out. And I think you tell the counselor what you just told me. I found out of some pretty insidious infidelity. Multiple women over several deployments.

And then here we are. We need to figure out how to build something new. Okay. And expect yourself to feel schizophrenic. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I already do. I know, I know. But people are caught off guard by how weirdly turned on they feel in certain moments.

Okay. And then how weirdly turned off they are in certain moments. Okay. All right. That's good to know that what I'm feeling is normal. Okay. It's happening right now. Do you mind just getting weird for a second?

Okay. This is like a teaching for people listening. Okay? Okay. There's a very weird, oh, I'll show him in a very erotic way sometimes. Okay. Fair or not fair? Fair. Okay. Yeah or not fair? Fair.

Okay. And then you get really pissed at that. You feel like that. And then there is also like, I will never sleep with that man again until the end of time. And then I'm going to add a year to that. Right. Yes.

And then you're overcome by this is happening right now. Right. And it's this toggle and you don't know who you are anymore. Yeah, that's, that is all true. That's exactly. Yeah.

That's what I've been experiencing this past week. Okay. And you feel super close that he told you this deep, dark secret and it was romantic. And by the way, you asked for it. And also I want to kill you and bury you in the backyard and i don't think they would ever find your body all the same time yes yeah it's yeah it's very jarring okay that's the foundation

that's been cracked so give yourself a lot of grace do a lot go get a special journal Okay And just put the new twin towers You can call it whatever you want, but right? Okay Give yourself permission to be like, oh my gosh I haven't wanted to be with him sexually this bad in years And then the very following hour I will never and then the very following hour I've never been this mad and the following hour. I miss him so bad I wish I following hour, I've never been this mad. And then the following hour, I miss him so bad. I wish he would just come home and hug me right now.

Keep record of those things because they're going to, they're going to, they're important for you to process as you move forward. That's grief. What you're experiencing. Just that, oh, that tidal wave. For sure. Yeah, for sure. I hate that for you. I'm sorry, Jackie. Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you for, for talking with me. This is, it's been really helpful. Have you told any of your friends? I have not told anybody. You're actually the first person that I've discussed this with. All right. So, um, an earlier caller, unfortunately had a similar situation, but not really, but sort of, um, I think you're before you call a counselor,

after you sit with your husband and ask for that letter, I think you sit down with two or three women that you really trust and you let them know. Okay. I think I would tell them, I'm not asking for y'all's wisdom right now. I just need to say this out loud to some people I trust that I know that will keep it quiet.

Right. Okay. And there's something about saying it out loud that takes it from being surreal to this is happening to me right now. Yes. Yeah. Is that fair? That's fair. And Jackie, one more thing.

One more thing. Ah! Okay. I want you to put a very dramatic, in concrete, in stone, not even in concrete, in stone, this moment that you're feeling right now, okay? Mm-hmm.

You have a default setting that rolls off to, uh-huh, okay, cool. Yeah, that's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's great. Cool, cool.

All right. Whenever you feel uncomfortable, you roll into a, let's just move on. If you bury this, it will come back and destroy. Right. No, I know that. Yeah. I know you know it, but you have to know it enough to do something about it.

I know my gummy candies will kill me. It's like, ah, it's all right. That's a problem for future, John. This is a problem for right now, Jackie, okay? Yeah. Cool. Yep. Because I can hear you doing it to me.

Right. Yeah, I know. No, no, no. I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm in very intimate space with you right now, and I get that.

But I want you just to be cautious. People ask me, like, what do you mean by awareness and curiosity this is it right here when you feel your body start to go okay cool all right cool cool cool cool that's when you go

nope my body's trying to run we're not going to run this time we're standing firm yeah so I have to get used to being uncomfortable and

that is the next little while of your life yeah fair yeah that's fair yeah i'm so sorry this happened i'm so sorry this happened and i'm so grateful for you being brave because because of your bravery this conversation is going to help a whole bunch of people and to feel a little bit less nuts. Just crazy when these things happen. It completely unspools people. And so thank you for being brave. I'm really grateful for you. We'll be right back. Hey, what's up? Deloney here. Listen, you and me and everybody else on the planet has felt anxious

or burned out or chronically stressed at some point. In my new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, you'll learn the six daily choices that you can make to get rid of your anxious feelings and be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you. So you can build a more peaceful, non-anxious life. Get your copy today at johndeloney.com. All right, as we wrap up today's show, it's time for Am I the Problem? It's me. That's not really the melody of that,

but all right, Jenna, let's do this. Kelly's out of town or Kelly's not here. She's not feeling well. Not feeling well, that's right, same thing. I'm gonna fill in for her. So here we go. Here's this one, came from somebody who she said, am I the jerk? A neighbor left a beer on my doorstep for me to find when I came home from work one night.

The neighbor already knew I do not drink. Bringing it in my house temporarily felt like it changed the environment. I decided to give it back to them the next day before I left for work. I left it on their step as they were not around. My friend thinks I was rude to give it back and should have handled it differently. Am I the jerk? I don't even understand that at all.

Okay, so here's my thought on this. So she doesn't drink. The neighbor brought her a beer and put it on her doorstep, I guess. I'm assuming the neighbor knows she doesn't drink. Yes, she said they don't know. However... Were they just trying to like... Maybe just be friendly. Like,

hey, here's a beer on your doorstep. And maybe they forgot, too, that you said that. That's what I thought, too. Just pour it out of their sink and throw it away. Take it to the trash can. Yeah. But at the same time, it's not like she threw it at her neighbor's house. She just put it back on the doorstep. Yeah, there's no jerk move here.

There's mature and immature. Yeah, no communication. Yeah. No one has talked to anybody. You've just been moving a beer. Right. And it's two people now starting to gin up stories in each other's heads. Exactly. Nobody's got time for that. Right. So, like, no, I don't think anybody's a jerk here.

If you smash their car with it or through their window, yeah, that would be on you. Or if they, like, I don't think anybody's a jerk here. If you smash their car with it through their window, yeah, that would be on you. Or if they like, I don't know, knew you were a recovering alcoholic and like they, this just sounds like you. Yeah, because I don't know what their reasoning is for not drinking. I don't know.

And yeah, but I mean, maybe the neighbor forgot and thought they were just doing a fun thing and put beers on everybody's doorstep. You know? They got different friends than I have. But yeah, at the end of the day, if somebody puts something on your doorstep you don't like,

just throw it in the trash and move on with your life. And if they say like, did you like the beer? You say, no, I don't drink. You know I don't drink. I threw it away. And I mean, ta-da!

America, our problems are so solvable. We can solve them all. All of them. My God! We can solve them all. And that's what we're doing right here. See you soon. Love y'all.

Bye.