The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Lied About His Relationship With a Coworker

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

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All right, let's talk about your marriage. Right now, we have February and October weekends on sale for the money in marriage getaway. It's the best marriage retreat on the planet. Tickets start at $749 a couple. Get yours at ramsysolutions.com slash getaway. How do I trust my husband again after his phone went off and I looked over at it? well, it was a female co-worker.

I said, hey, you got a text. And he looked at it, dismissed it. And I said, oh, well, who was it? And he said, a different name. Uh-oh. Okay, this is a hard question I'm about to ask you. Okay. What's going on?

What's going on? This is John with a Dr. John Deloney show. Nashville, Tennessee. I'm a real person. Not an AI bot. taking calls from real people about real things that are going on in their lives. If you want to be on this show,

talk about your mental and emotional health, your marriage, whatever you got going on, your kids, the world out there that has lost its mind. Go to johndeloney.com slash ask. For you youngsters, that's a website. And it's not on the internets. I mean, it's not on the Instagrams,

it's on the internet. John Deloney. Ask-A-S-K. Love to have you on the show. So go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and talk to Ann. What's up, Ann? Hi. How are you?

I'm great. How are you? I'm good. Glad to be talking to you. You too. What's up? My question is, how do I trust my husband again after he was engaging in some flirty texts with a coworker?

And he still has a, and he always did have a habit of lying about stuff. Hmm. What happened? What happened? Um, so he's always told little lives, um, and I thought they weren't a big deal until they were. Um, this happened last year. We were, we were in the car. It was his birthday and he went out to get out to get gas. Uh, his phone went off. He got a text and I looked over at it and I saw it was a co-worker, female co-worker, which I didn't think anything of it. Um, when he got back in the car, I said, hey, you got a text. And he looked at it dismissed it. And I said, oh, well, who was it? And he said a different name. Uh-oh. And so I didn't react at that time because I was shocked. Okay, why not? Why didn't you say something right then?

I think it was his birthday, too. We were out of town. I think I just didn't want to cause problems. Okay, but the problem had been caused. Yeah, yeah. I guess what I'm pushing on is he's been doing this to you for years and you don't ever call him on it. Yeah, yeah. When I do call them on it, it usually turns on me. What does that mean? He'll tell me that, you know, why am I causing problems? Why am I picking a freak? Or he'll tell me, you know, to drop it, stop digging for stuff. It always gets turned on me.

Or he'll completely deny something. If it's little lies, he'll deny it. And he'll just say that, you know, he forgot or, you know, it didn't happen that I see things wrong. Okay, this is a hard question I'm about to ask you. Okay. Why do you think so little of yourself? I don't know. You're worth so much more than this. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So much more. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. What do the text messages say when you read them? They were just flirty text messages. Give me an example. You have to earn my trust back because you sound like a minimizer.

Yeah, I am. I am. I think they were, it's been a while. It was, you know, meet me down at Paul C, whatever. Meet me here, meet me there. Just flirty text. Those aren't flirty text. Those aren't flirty text.

Those are like, let's go hook up text. That's what I thought. That's exactly what I thought. Flirty text is, oh my gosh, you looked great in that shirt. Yeah. And there was some of that too. Those pants, you have a great butt in those pants. Yeah, yeah.

There was some of that too from different people. But like, hey, meet me over here. That's not flirty. That's the next line. Yeah. And I don't think anything happened. We have been to therapy. when we saw her separately, and she believes him that she don't think anything happened.

He did stop it immediately when I talked to him about it. When I did finally confront him about it, he admitted to it. He said that he knew what he was doing was wrong. He don't know why he did it. And that's, you know, he was deleting the messages. I found him in the deleted folder. And I think that's why it bothers me even more. I don't believe he did anything more.

There was nothing physical that happened. It was the lying. It was not protecting our marriage. No, and he was doing something wrong and didn't protect us. Didn't stop it. When I did confront him, he stopped it. He did go in and he told her, stopped texting him. My wife saw this.

She didn't appreciate it. She don't think it's funny. And it has stopped. It did stop immediately. Okay. This happened a while ago. Why are you calling me today? Because I still have trouble trusting.

And whenever there's a little lie still happen about little things, stupid things, then it just takes me right back. Give me an example. Of a lie. So I guess recently I was out of town. We have cameras in the house. One of the cameras went off. I looked to see what it was. And he was getting apples out of the refrigerator.

We have an apple tree. We had some extra apples. And he was going to his mom's house. And I was like, oh, he's taking apples to his mom. and just the other day I went down to get some of those apples and they were almost gone. I was like oh, where'd all the apples go? He's like

I don't know, we must ate them. He never, he wouldn't tell me something stupid and I took him to my mom, gave my mom some. I'm like, those are the types of lives and he'll just say I don't know. Or if I would say, well, I saw you on the camera taking them to your mom, he'll say, why were

you looking at the cameras at me? Or you know, oh, I forgot. Oh, I did, I forgot I gave this one. He'll just always, there's always an excuse. Yeah, and I think this may come. His mom, she lies about everything. So I think it's the way he was raised. Yeah, but it doesn't matter.

He lives with you. Do you all have kids? Yeah. Grown, we're empty nesters. Does he lie to his kids? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's where they were growing.

My son was growing. up, he would throw a toy away or something that, you know, he didn't, and he'd find it in the garbage while I'd you throw it away. He's like, oh, I thought he didn't want it anymore. Like, yeah, he did. Like, things, and he does have some OCD, so I think those. Yeah, that doesn't matter. I do too. Does he give me permission to lie? Yeah, I know, and I constantly make excuses for him. Yeah, you've got, you have to stop doing that. I mean, you don't have to stop doing anything. If, if, let me ask you this. Like, how can I help you. What are you looking for? How do I get past this? You don't. You don't. You live with

a pathological liar. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's not something you're going to, you're going to either have to make peace with it. This is just the guy I live with. I've been married to him for a long time. We've had a life together. He's going to keep lying to me. Yeah. I'm always going to have that little nagging question in the back of my mind. Did he cheat or not? Like, because you'll never know, because you don't trust anything little big small massive whatever he just does what he wants to do whenever he wants to do it and if somebody says anything to him he just flips it around on them yeah and so either make peace with that or you have to draw some sort of or what statement if you lie to me again I'm leaving because there's no incentive for him to change his behavior

yeah does your does his son does your son want to be around him oh yeah yeah we are and he he jokes with him about it oh yeah we know that's a lie

um you know here he goes again he's lying again you know and in some sense it has become a joke because it's been stupid stuff

yeah but it's not funny for you no it's not it's not and it used to be but until it become a big thing Do you know Here's where my head goes And I don't want to create problems Where there's not any

But here's where my head goes Um Do you regularly Like on an annual basis Pull Both of y'all's credit reports To see what's out there Do you know

Do you have access I'm the only one that does our finance I'm the only one that does our finances So yeah he doesn't even Okay so you have access to the retirement accounts and stuff like that yeah yeah i have access to everything yeah i handle all of that i would still pull his credit report though yeah i do that's yeah he don't i do i do i i wouldn't do it behind his back but i yeah yeah i mean there's not a lot you could do here

without making a big or what statement i just don't want to live with the liar or i'm going to call you on every single one of these and every time you're turning around on me it's going to become a big deal because I'm worth more than this. You've been doing this my entire marriage. How long you all been together, 20 plus years? Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

20, 22. Yeah. I mean, he has to do this at work too, huh? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I've seen it with everybody. Anybody's around. And like I said, his mom does it, too.

They like to flip things to make things look better or even just to be funny about it. Or for him, how he does stuff to try to be funny. But humor is his way of trying to pretzel his way out of getting caught, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think he's done it. He had to do that grown up to survive. He has a narcissistic mother.

I've even had to do it with her. You know, you have to lie to just diffuse things with her. I don't think so. You can just not be in relationship with her. Yeah, I do stay away at this point. But yeah. Yeah, it's a rock and a hard place. Have you ever sat down and said it hurts me when you are not honest?

Yeah. What does he say? And he says he's going to fix it. I've even, you know, he's going to work on it. I've even given him, I've heard you say about your 24-hour role with your students. I've even gave him that scenario, given him 24 hours to come back and tell me the truth and it won't be held against them. And he says, oh, okay, but it's never happened. And that was a month ago that I said that.

And I know he's lied since then. Yeah. It's just going to be you deciding this is the way this is or I'm worth more than this and I don't want to live the rest of my life with a liar. And of course I can't make that choice for you. I would recommend though, or let me say it this way, if this was my life, maybe I'm not going to leave you. I will call you on every single lie, every single one.

And I won't say, hey, that's not true. I will say, hey, you are a liar today. And it hurts me that you made up something stupid about apples. Oh, why are you even looking on the camera? Because I don't trust you. You are untrustworthy as my husband because you don't tell me the truth. That's why I check the cameras. Because still to this day, I don't know if a coworker is going to be sneaking into the house while I'm out of town.

That's why I look. Any other questions? And there's a boldness there. it's you regaining agency it's you deciding i'm worth more than just rolling over every time but here's the thing rolling over has worked for you all you've raised kids i mean you you can do what you want to do just the thought of that of having somebody in my house that i can't trust at all ever i just i couldn't live like that but everybody's different sorry i can't help more than that in but I don't think there's a lot of tips and tricks on how to get a you know get around this

this is just an elephant inside your living room and it might be that you bring in some straw and say this is where you're going to live or it might be that you knock out the back wall and say as for me in my house we're not going to have an elephant living inside it's your move thank you for the call we come back a woman asks how to tell if her and her boyfriend are compatible or incompatible despite their differences. All right, gang, I got big news. If you've listened to my show for any period of time, you know that I'm always talking about the importance of sleep.

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Sorry about that. Melissa, it's pretty insulting, actually. What's up? Hey, Dr. Deloni. Thanks for taking my call. You got it. What's up? So I'm calling because I'm in a relationship between my boyfriend and I.

There seems to be a bit of a life stage and financial imbalance. And I'm just looking for some advice about whether it's something to be patient with or if it's a sign of incompatibility. So I can give you a bit of backstory, sure. So he's a great guy. He's really hardworking. He's loving. He works full time.

He's in grad school. At the same time, he's living paycheck to paycheck right now, and he doesn't have a ton of wiggle room financially. I'm in a spot where I'm more financially stable, and I've found myself providing tangible support for him throughout our relationship. What does that mean? You pay his life bill or you pay for dinner? It's like dinner.

He's asked me to borrow money at times. He's asked me for money. hasn't given it back. He's needed rides, like if his car breaks down and stuff like that. He's asked to use my tech stuff, like, if he doesn't have a laptop or stuff like that. So it's been feeling like I'm giving a lot in those ways. And I'm starting to feel kind of emotionally undernourished. and I don't know if it's something to wade it out.

I do, I did talk to him and he's definitely expressed that he's anxious about his financial circumstances, which I think has contributed to him not being able to be as emotionally present because he's just trying to make things work. So what's your question? I guess my question is, is this something that's worth waiting out with a person? Or do you just leave? I think the things that matter as far as character and all those things align for me. Except one big one, though.

I don't think you're being fully honest with yourself. There's one big one, which is, like, the, the literature tells me that women are again this is generalizable so it's not everybody right but women are attracted to somebody with some sort of potential or with a plan and the thought that he's a very hard worker that he's in graduate school he's got some trajectory here i can see that on one side. The other side is, like, and there's a, you use the words emotionally undernourished. That sounds very northeastern of you. That's awesome way to put that. But like, he's not there for you. And so my first question would be, are you, have you given him a roadmap to what, quote, unquote, being there for you looks like?

I have. Because he might think the best way to her heart is to get out of grad school and go earn some more money so that I can, I can provide for us. And if you said, no, no, no, I just want you to sit on the couch and watch Brooklyn Nine with me. Like, or I want you to go out to dinner. We'll go to Arby's for crying out loud, but I just want to hear how your day was. I want to learn about you. Then if you've given him that roadmap and he says, I don't care, then I think you have to deal with that because that's going to be the rest of your life.

Mm-hmm. Right. And that's you being honest about, I like him. I think he's great. He's fun. He's this and that. But I've given him a roadmap, and he's like, yeah, I'm not taking that. that map.

Is it valid, though, that his, like, the immediate stressors are causing him to not be as present? Because I have given him the roadmap, and we've talked about it a few times. I mean, stress, yes, is definitely, plays a role in things. But my hope would be that you, if y'all are building something together relationally, that you become each other's safe place. like that's what intimacy is it's a secret world that two people create together to where when the world gets heavy and the bills are coming when I do drop my shoulders I drop them into you not that you're another stressor on top of my other stressors right and I think that's the place that I've been in that it's it has started to feel like a stress for me because of the different needs that he's had, that he's come to the table with.

And he hasn't necessarily been able to provide that emotional connection and attention that I want. Because it is stuff that's as simple as let's hang out and you not be looking at whatever game is on your phone, but let's actually pay attention. Yeah, that's not emotional stress. If you're telling me that your needs aren't being met because he's working 20 hours a day between graduate school and two full-time jobs, then I would tell you he might be a guy worth investing in over the long haul.

If he's stressed and busy and y'all go out and he just looks over your shoulder at the game and stares at his phone the whole time, then you can't blame stress on that. That's avoidance. Right. But I think the other thing here is you're maybe... I'm gonna try to can I just can I say it super direct and if if we're like in a counseling or coaching context I'd say this much softer than I'm about to say it but just due to time is that cool yeah yeah your lack of personal boundaries is making you uncomfortable or unhappy and it's easier to blame him for crossing lines that he doesn't know about for instance I don't ever loan people I care about money ever

I will give it all the time. Or I'll say no. So if my buddy Todd calls and says, hey man, can I borrow $1,000 my kidneys to go to the hospital, or I can't make my light bill or whatever. By the way, Todd's got way more money than me, so it would never happen. It's kind of annoying, but here we are.

I would, without thinking, I would Venmo him money, but I'm not going to, he's never going to owe me money because I don't loan people money because it creates a, it creates a, like a boss employee relationship. It creates a servant-master relationship, for lack of better terms. You owe me. And it's hard to build intimate connection in a, I'm above you. Right?

But then if you loaned money and then you loan them money, and then you leave work to go pick them up, and you do those things enough without even meaning to, you stack higher and higher to her now you're looking down at him and that's a recipe for what the gotman's would call is the chief of the four horsemen which is contempt i take care of my finances better than you do i have my crap together more than you do i work really hard too and at least i can be present when we go to dinner and you can't you see how that becomes hierarchical right it creates a power imbalance instead of

saying, I love you. I don't loan money to anybody. A, I'm happy to help you. You're my boyfriend of however many years. I'm happy to help you with your rent or your light bill. But what's the plan next month? Because that forces a more honest conversation about are we compatible or not? Because if he's like, oh, I got a plan, babe, I got a plan. And the next month, a month after after that, then maybe you're dating a schemer. Or if next month, he adds some more hours and he says, hey, I can't go out on Tuesday like I'd plan because I got another shift. That may be a person worth investing in.

You get what I'm saying? But it's you asking yourself, what are my non-negotiables anymore? And then when he starts bouncing up against your boundaries, that's how you're going to be able to test compatibility. Okay. Does that make sense?

It does. and I think I have been starting to build that, like, resentment. Yeah. And you find yourself just becoming somebody you don't want to become, right? Exactly. Yeah. And it comes from a place of, I don't want to demonize you or him. It comes from a place of deep caring and compassion.

You're a compassionate person. And you love this guy. Yeah. It's $300. Of course I'll give you that for your Waterville. That's not a problem. And he loves and cares about you, and he's working really. hard and he knows man she's got my back ride or die can i have three hundred dollars for my

light bill right so it's both people not thinking through hey we're slowly starting to drive our tractors over each other and we're going to start blaming each other for that pain when really that what i need to do is build a really good fence around what i will and won't do right and it maybe you sit down and say hey like i don't know how many times you've bailed them out financially or bail them out like with rides or whatever but you can be honest with yourself maybe you can take out a piece of paper so it doesn't get real the emotions don't get wrapped up in it initially but write it down i've had to i've let you quote unquote borrow money to the tune of seven thousand dollars 30 times i can't i need to know what a plan is because i'm thinking about building a

future with you and if this is our future i need to know that now Mm-hmm. Do you all live together? Are y'all separate places? No. We live separate. Okay. There's something about asking that question.

My wife asked it to me, we were married, but it's something you all ask each other. How do you want this house to feel when you walk in? How do you want to feel when you see me? And it's feelings are not everything, and they're not designed to tell us the but they are they are flashing lights on our dashboard right and if he says i want you to be happy that i'm here then the reverse engineer of that is okay then you can't owe me seven thousand dollars i need to be anchored into somebody equally to how they are anchored into me right i'm so low and i did tell him that yeah what do he say in so many words he's there you go

I told him like so many words, right? What do you say? Well, he said he gets it. And I basically told him if it feels like I'm meeting your needs, but my needs aren't being met. All right. I want to throw the word needs completely out the window. I want you to take a 30-day exercise and just take a fast from that word. I want you to have the courage to say I want.

Because when we say I need with a romantic partner, what you need is food, water, and oxygen. When we say I want, like I need this from you, it becomes a chore, a checklist. When you look at somebody and say, And that's the stuff he's asked of me. It's like I need money. I need help.

That's right. And so one of the most common questions I get it from men is, how do I get her to like want to sleep with me how do I get sex off of a chore I want her to want me and I was like dude if you walk around me like I need this I need this then you go on the chore list I need groceries I need to get my water bill paid I need to keep him happy right vulnerability and scary and courage and bravery is hey I want you and so there's something about sitting down at at a dinner table and saying

I'm not having my needs Matt there's something much more raw and intimate about you saying hey I want to be more important

to you than the stupid baseball game yeah because that he might look at you and say well right now

you're not and you'll have to deal with that reality or he might say I'm so sorry you're right I want you to feel wanted but needs are a way we take our internal cinder block

and we hand it to somebody else and say you make my emotional regulation and my choices and my feelings it's your job now instead of saying I want, will you pick this up on your own? Okay. You get what I'm saying?

Yeah, that's good. And it's terrifying, isn't it? It is. It feels harder to say that. Way hard. It is, because, I mean, that's true vulnerability. Because if a stranger said, I need help, you would jump in. That's who you are.

Right. So we can go around meeting other people's, quote, unquote needs. I remember I was standing outside of a graduate school building and these two people were running and then once a sudden somebody collapsed and started yelling, I need a Coke.

They're having a, like a diabetic reaction. And I ran and got him, I didn't know who this person was. Of course, I'm going to help meet your needs. That's just a human to human thing. That's not always intimate. Intimate is, do you want me? Ooh, and that can be real, real scary.

but I guess here's the thing when it comes to compatibility i don't know i kind of bristle at that word because when it comes to intimate relationships when it comes to a building a ride or die life with a with a partner the question that matters is like will you go all in and i will go all in and the moment somebody starts to feel like hey i'm going all in and you're not or you're using me for rent money or you're using me for sex or you're using me for sex or you're using me for whatever um it's not a matter of compatibility it's a matter of will you or won't you and that's a deeply intimate scary question so melissa write down the things that are really like not the things that he will or won't do the things you are actually feel what is your body telling you

and then ask yourself this terrifying question what do i want here what do i want for me, what I want for you, what I want for us. And then that's the real deep conversation to have. Thank you for the call. Sister, call anytime. It was been an honor. When we come back, a couple asks how to stay connected to their transgender family member despite their differences. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This time of year can be tough for all of us. So be sure you check in on your friends and, if you can, reconnect with loved ones. Our recent reconnected with some old friends of mine, and it was an amazing time of restoration. And just like it can take a little courage to send that message or grab coffee with somebody you haven't talked

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All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas. I've got a couple on the line. Let's bring in Sean. What's up, Sean? Hey, Dr. John. How are you doing today? I'm good, brother. How are you?

I'm doing great. Awesome. Well, not super great, but just pretty great. All right, let's bring in Madison. Madison, what's up? Hi, nothing much. Just on a phone call with you, I guess. Very cool.

All right, you guys are calling from Dallas. So what's going on? How can I help? Somebody, whoever wants to go first, go for it. I'll jump in. So about four days ago, my brother shot us a text message saying that he has came out as a transgender woman and it completely threw us off, came out of left field. He told us that he's starting to transition by using HRT and estrogen and vocal training and changing his name and changing his pronouns or their pronoun, I don't know, changing the names. And my parents were really struggling with it.

My mom had a health problem because of it. My dad said something along with, like, I think it's sinful what you're doing, and I think you're confused. And he also stated in the message when he came out to us that he was cutting off all communication with our parents and issuing, like, a no-contact order against them because they were saying things like they're mourning, the death of their son, and his eternal soul is damned, and questioning his faith of the Christian and his education and all that sort of stuff. And so I guess the root of my question is, as Christians, my wife and I want to

continue a relationship with him in a loving way, but also we don't want to compromise our own values and beliefs. And I guess we just need guidance on how do we, how do we do that, you know? Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. So which part are you asking me about? I've got some pretty, pretty firm opinions on this, but I also know that there's a wide spectrum of beliefs. And so if you're asking me for my opinions, I can give it to you. I prefer to give frameworks for how people can think through these things. And this is just particularly hard because, A, it's your brother

and who's now asking me called your sister. Your parents are involved, and they're throwing Haymaker Grenade. and then there's the no contact and so I don't it immediately it's hard to not go to compassion to hurt to um holidays like what things gonna look like if you all have kids like is it uncle is it ain't like all that gets it gets real mechanistic and real messy real fast right yeah absolutely I guess the part I'm seeking guidance on is And maybe the framework might be a good point, but are we bad people if we don't use, like, his preferred names and pronouns? Or, you know, I know this is such a hot button issue right now, so I don't mean to throw you into muddy water.

No, it's not muddy water. It's, I mean, it's a pretty clear thing with me. The framework that I use for everything in the world is I'm a Christian, and Jesus shows up with hurting people. And so will I. and so anytime somebody comes out and it's happened multiple times in my life and in various things anytime somebody comes out the first response always always i give is i love you thank you for sharing that with me period yeah and any conversation i want to have about names and pronoun use and spiritual, this, all of that

is second to I love you. Thank you for sharing that with me. Yeah. And by the way, I don't respond to anything of that significance via text. And that's where my head was at too. I'd want to call them and tell them that. The second thing is, in my conversations with friends of mine who are transgender, I always now, you have to know like I'm a clown anyway, right?

Yeah. I have a reputation not only here but in my personal life with oh that dude just says it right so i i you may not have that same context but i always ask for grace i'm good this is a big shift for me and anytime i had college students that were coming out and they would ask me to sit with their parents and stuff i would always say hey your parents get some time because you just blew their world up and so be compassionate to them too because everything they knew and thought they understood or not even what they knew every kids don't realize that the moment you have a kid you already go down to this imaginary Thanksgiving where you have grandkids sitting around the table and so if something happens

along the way that changes that picture even if I'm in full line like alignment with what the change is I still have to grieve the fact that I had this thing in my head and now it's not not there anymore so it always tell young people like your parents get a minute be compassionate and graceful with them too yeah and people say things with when they when they get scared people say things when suddenly right feel in the blank but so I'm asked for everyone have and I also look at the parents and say hey whatever you're about say don't right I always tell them that too but I don't right but it's it's it's messy but always my first response always is I love you thank you for sharing that

I'm going to call you. Yeah, I think, I know we, me and my wife, we were struggling with, we hadn't responded yet because he sent that text message probably like Thursday of last week. And because we didn't know what to say. And it's we, my brother and I, we already don't have a great relationship. You know, there's a big age gap between us. And there was some childhood stuff that was really tough. you know, a lot of harsh and mean things were said and that weren't, that haven't been resolved in adulthood.

To him or to you? From him to me. Is he older than you or younger than you? He's older than me. Okay. And so, but also don't manufacture a relationship where there isn't one. Yeah. Is that bad, though?

Is it, I don't know. I just feel like because he's becoming so vulnerable, and, you know, my wife could tell you it was, like, he did at the end of the message and the heartfelt apology of, like, all the stuff that he said and did during childhood, and it seemed really sincere. But I don't, I don't know if I, like,

if I'm feeling, I hate to you his word, like, no, I don't know, I feel like it's, he's trying to rebuild a relationship, but that relationship has been burned a long time ago, you know? He might be trying to rebuild a relationship, or he might be trying to fully exhale for the first time and make himself feel better. The deal is you don't know.

Yeah. That's why I hate text messages on weighty things. Right? That's why I hate him. Yeah. And so when somebody, if I have a friend who's got a child who's going through an organ transplant, send a big long text, I pick up the phone and call.

Right? And I mean, so I'm not just saying about this particular issue. about all particular issues but it might be that there is a deep well of self anger and self frustration and embarrassment and shame and all those things but nobody is hurt no ideology is hurt no one is less of a religious person or not if they call somebody and say I love you thank you for sharing it sounds like you've been going through hell for a long time and then y'all get into the I'm struggling with

the what to call you I personally have a thing where I can't bring myself to say this or I could care less if you want me like I don't have call any of my friends by their regular names and so I'll call you whatever you want me to call

right so it's everyone's different on that thing on that spectrum and so you have to be willing to say this is a line I'm drawing and if it's going to cost our relationship, I hope it doesn't, but this is only so far I can go.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think I do. Yeah. All of that happens downstream. Yeah. From... Yeah.

Tell me what you're thinking, Madison. Um, I guess, well, first and foremost, like, I'm here to support Sean, like my husband. And I, I think I just have, I feel like I have a different perspective and I've been struggling with it a little bit because I didn't have a relationship with him, obviously in childhood. Um, and Sean did. And he's been hurt multiple times by him and, um, there's been family. issues as well. I haven't really seen that. So I'm coming in, like, I think we need to, like, respond to him and talk to him and let him know that he's loved. And of course, I believe Sean believes the same thing. I just don't have that background in history with his brother. And so I guess I'm having a hard time with the, maybe the lack of response at the moment. Yeah. Hold on.

Will you do me a favor, Madison? Yes. Will you say what you're feeling to Sean and not to me? Yeah. Um, I, I, I, I feel that we, I don't know, like as...

You're dancing around it. Just say it. I know. I know. I feel like there's been a lack of response, and I don't want to be in the position where we push someone away because they might disagree with us or have a different viewpoint than us. because I want to show love to all people, but while not compromising our belief. So I understand why it's a difficult thing to approach. But I just wish we could just talk to him and call him, I guess. Sean? Yeah. How does that hit you?

Probably like a ton of bricks. I think I think my initial thing is my I want to try to almost defend my actions of not responding to him and I know that's not

I know that's not the right thing to do you know let me give you some grace too okay Madison John can I say this normally again I would let y'all work this out if we were sitting together and you were on a couch and I was in one of those recliners

and we had the room all dimly lit, like, whatever. Like, can I cut through what I'm hearing? Yeah. Yeah. How long have y'all been married? Two years. Okay. All right. Perfect. Here's what I'm hearing.

We've been together for two and a half years married, maybe a couple years before that. I didn't know. Sean, I didn't know that this is how you hit. handled hurting people. I thought you were something else. I thought you were a person that went running towards hurting people. And that's Madison, maybe not that strongly, but I'm reeling with, I didn't expect this of you.

I didn't expect this to be your response. Especially as you told me how your parents would respond to you and your brother when you were kids, I thought you were gonna be different. And the other side of that is, Sean is thinking you two, will somebody be on my side? I thought you were my right or die. Yeah.

And I want to tell both of you that this kind of tension is okay and it's normal in a marriage. But it unspoken is what causes big problems. Do you get what I'm saying? yeah this huge giant issue in your family is is really a big spotlight on Sean yet again feeling attacked like he has his whole life and Madison thinking I married this really compassionate guy that goes running towards hurting people but this time he he hesitates and really the reality is is some of that's true and also some of that it's it's all tangled up

together that Sean is a really the same compassionate guy you think you married Madison and this guy that needs his help really hurt him bad and Sean she is on your side it sounds like but she's calling you to the version of yourself

that she knows deeply yeah both are true you what I'm saying yeah absolutely but it sucks to say out loud doesn't it Absolutely. Yeah. Madison? Yeah. It, yeah, it does, it does, it's hard to hear it because, yeah, that's a strong way to put it. I don't think I'm feeling like, I don't know, maybe not to that magnitude. I know, I'm pretty overdramatic.

Yeah. Yeah. I just want to clarify that. No, I know, I know. You can clarify. You can clarify. for that with him. I'm being overdramatic, but I'm trying to make a point that y'all find yourselves accidentally, not accidentally, but life feels like it's pitting y'all against each other, and it's the not talking about it that's actually the issue. Because I think you'll are way closer aligned than you think you are. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think, I appreciated the directness, Dr. John, because I do think, like, she, she does have this Madison has this

perception of me that I am kind of a run in first kind of guy and I have it I've been running away you know I've been turning my back and sprinting as far as I can

and so I yeah definitely is a little bit convicting in that sense and I don't want to tell you guys how to respond or what to respond I can tell you how I would respond

and I do have lines right I do have like hey this is a big deal and that's where when somebody put something hard on the tables let's take let's take the transgender issue off it's really a hot button thing if somebody I care about says hey I just got arrested for stealing a million dollars from my business right I'm going to jail I don't my wife kicked me out I would say my god dude i love you i'm glad that you called me come over but i'm not giving that person access to my safe yeah if that person had the codes to my safe i would change them because you've given me some information now right i'm going to respond to that and here's the thing i would tell that person hey you know i changed my codes right and they might maybe be like yeah for sure or that's fair

Or they might get super hurt and say, screw you, I'm out of here. But if you're asking me to walk alongside you, compassionately and loving you, I'm going to ask you to hold what I'm wrestling with, compassionately and lovingly too. Yeah. And the problem on these issues is we expect the other side,

whatever the issue is, to take 100% of us. And if they don't, they are wiping 100% of us away. And that's just dumb. It's not real. Yeah. The reality is I can love you deeply and care for you.

But if you draw all these lines and I say, I can't go there and you're like, fine, then none of it matters, then that's a, they're choosing to walk away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's what we're nervous about since he is issuing the non-contact letter to their parents. We're nervous that if we say the wrong thing, he will do the same to us. And I know that's not in our control or something I don't know that we can handle because that's his decision. Do y'all live by him? No, we live a couple of states away.

Okay. I think a phone call, or here's what I would do. I do a phone call first. Yeah. And say what I've said, right? And I would also say, we have a lot to talk through to figure out. I don't even know how this works. Yeah.

And in the same way, you're uncomfortable with mom and dad. I don't want you to be uncomfortable with us. We love you. but it's just a lot it's big yeah and so let's facetime in the next couple of days and we can talk it through yeah and i'm going to ask you to be really graceful with me because i'm going to make mistakes you've you've been my brother you've had this name you've had whatever whatever you all feel comfortable with you've been this for this long and now all of a sudden it's different i just need some grace and if you're met with screw you absolutely not then that's the

that's you're getting reality and y'all are going to get to respond to that but i want to tell you both of you i'm proud of y'all for calling and more importantly i think this is one of those moments that makes your marriage stronger because from this if y'all will agree that we're never going to keep secrets and when i have a big feeling not as big and dramatic as i made it Madison, I know. But when I have big feelings, maybe I'm going to take 24 hours, maybe I'm going to take 48 hours, but I'm going to sit down and I'm going to be honest with you about them. And if that sparks a big feeling in you, Sean, then I'm going to take 24 hours and then I'm going to put mine back out on the table, my feelings back out on the table, and we're going to

have that conversation. But we're not going to slowly inch by inch go our separate ways because I can't believe you said that. I can't believe you didn't do this. Well, I didn't do this because this and I can't believe we're going to continue to come back come back come back and that's going to help you all iron sharp and iron you're all going to together become laser focused and it will help refine your family values and man what a blessing that will be to anyone who gets to pull up a seat at y'all's table that's that's that's my take on it I go towards hurting people And anytime somebody has big news on any issue, my first response is, I love you and I'm so grateful that you called me. Thanks for the call. Sean and Madison, I'm really grateful for you. We'll be right back.

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slash Deloney to save 20% off. Go check them out. All right, we're back. What's up, Kelly? Oh, hey, can we just shout out? The Cowboys tied last week. So, yay, everybody gets a trophy. And this week, they won. Yeah, against the Jets.

Woo-hoo. It's the worst team in all football, but it's good. Well, I think the worst team right now is the Titans. So the Cardinals can answer for that. And what a majestic wild game. Yeah. My team right now looks a lot better than I think they really are Because of who we're playing

Fair fair So anyway on to much better news Bonnie from Tampa Florida writes in with a cool crap that happened Oh awesome Yes let it rip Bonnie All right she writes After listening to the recent program Am I doomed to repeat my family's tragic mistakes

I realized how your show has impacted me in my family Growing up my house had a lot of yelling and anger My dad had PTSD from Vietnam. I vividly remember when I was six and my dad almost murdered my sister. As an aside, my therapist told me that that wasn't trauma since it didn't happen to me. What? Hope that person's still practicing. When my daughter was born, I brought...

We're going to have a job forever, Kelly. When my daughter was born, I brought the tradition of yelling into our house. I hated that I did that. I'm one of the OG-17, and after listening to your show, I realized I could do better. So I did. I talked to my daughter, apologize for the past, and allowed her to tell me when I was yelling. It's been years since I've yelled in anger. And while everything isn't rainbows and unicorns, it is a calmer home.

Thank you to you and your team for all that you do. Amazing. I won't even respond to that other than to say thank you for sharing that. And I'm proud of you for doing the work in your own house to change your family tree. And I'll also say, yes, if your dad tries to murder your sister, everybody in the club gets trauma. everybody. God Almighty, where do these people get their training from? It's like they go to the Kelly Daniels School of Fine Producing.

Kelly Daniels School of Producing and Car Wash and Therapy. You got to let that one go, Kelly. Stick to the car washes. Love you, bye.